Tracie – it looks as if we’ve got a good conversation going now. I have to step out and make dinner for my family – I appreciate your being here today!

Tracie – do we know who ‘invented’ the supermarket?

Very interesting, Peterr — because there is a lot of trouble with that for imported food products now since there are some countries (ahem) which tend to trans-ship products to other countries, have them repackaged with new country of origin labels and sent on to the US. Big problem with Chinese honey which has been stored in drums with lead solder or which have been used to store other things which contaminate the honey.

pssst — it’s a secret, TBogg — now everyone will want to go. But you are right – smaller groceries that cater to specific markets are usually much better and people pay more attention to detail. We have a small grocery that started up locally that is owned by a family from the Middle East. They carry all sorts of specialty foods, produce and meats. They also do a big business in fresh baked goods.

Selling direct (that is, having their own dairy stores) is something that was pretty prevalent in Upstate NY until the early 60s, when the ‘we’ll buy up and market your milk for you and you’ll get a consistent price’ movement took over. What dairy farmers have faced is that the costs of production never are less than what the Co-op is willing to pay them. And if they can sell milk to consumers at the same price that consumers are paying in the grocery store, they can make money. And if they produce auxiliary products like cottage cheese, yoghurt, and ice cream, then this is all to the good. we have a dairy farm that sells all sorts of cheese at our local farmers market – she is getting a good dollar for her cheese and this is up here in our little metro – she is not looking for shelf space in Gristidi’s in Manhatten.

We’d have to ask Masaccio but one of the questions is what percentage of floor space in a French ‘super-marche’ is devoted to convenience foods (frozen prepared items etc.) versus fresh items? The advice we’re all being given in the US these days is to shop the perimeter of the store – which basically leaves at least half of the floor space in prepared foods.

Tracie – I live in Upstate NY and one of the things we see up here is that dairy farmers (who have been the backbone of Upstate NY agriculture for a long time) are abandoning DairyLea and other co-op groups to sell direct. There is a lot of competition for milk now here (courtesy of Chobani which basically has soaked up all liquid milk production within about 50 miles of their production facility. I’ve heard several stories of farmers going back to installing their own bottling plants to sell either direct to consumers or direct to restaurants, little grocery stores and so on.

On an individual item basis, I have the feeling that the French are getting much better food for their 20% than a lot of families in this country are getting, no matter how ‘cheap’ it is.

From an economic standpoint – do you have a feel for what percentage of income the French pay for their food?

That’s an interesting take – a lot of criticism has been placed at the doorsteps of America’s working moms – “if you were taking the time to cook a decent meal, we wouldn’t have (pick your issue – obesity, divorce, violence..).” But you are saying that what you saw were people who were giving themselves a treat. So, it isn’t convenience or lack of time.

Tracie – were your co-workers at Applebees trained cooks? Were any of them graduates of culinary programs?

Tracie – I have very strong feelings about America’s love affair with going out to eat. I think it’s more complicated than just ‘two-earner households.’ What about you? What did you see at Applebees?

Rodale has done a lot of research on that – they have a 30-year study that they just keep on doing.

Well, I think you are right – I think Walmart has a retail business model and it doesn’t change whether they are selling jars of pickles, sneakers, TV sets, bicycles or cucumbers. Selling produce requires a LOT of attention to detail (quality, quality maintenance)and I don’t think Walmart’s business model is based on having knowledgeable employees who are paying that much close attention. Except of course, if the veggies and fruit need to be spiffed up a bit, right?

Tracie – I also think that this also enables multi-national conglomerates like Monsanto and Dow to browbeat government entities and farmers into using their seed and their chemicals – “without us, you can’t produce the huge amounts of food necessary to keep the costs down for consumers!”

Do you think that the reason Walmart had a 20 year old produce manager was because they are not willing to pay for someone with some actual produce knowledge and experience? Or is it because those people get moved on into management and no one bothers to train the kids?

TBogg — this is an issue that Jamie Oliver (whether you love him or hate him) has been grappling with ever since he got started. No one knows anything about food – how much they need to buy, what they need to buy, how to prep it, how to cook it. Families have been seduced into convenience since my parents’ day – it just gets worse and worse.

Ah – I think this gets to the mythology of ‘cheap food’ – working back from what consumers pay(and we aren’t even including tax payer paid agricultural subsidies, which fruit and veggie growers get far less of than do grain growers) and the number of times food gets ‘handled’ between the field and the grocer’s shelf, it almost dictates that the people who actually pick the produce be paid poorly.

How we got here? Wow. Sometimes I think the the issue revolves around the American mythology of ‘cheap food and lots of it.’ I’m still trying to wrap my head around where that came from.

I’m sure every different ‘adventure’ in this project held some real surprises – what what the thing that shocked you the most? That upset and worried you the most?