You can never eradicate ignorance but you can overcome it.

Hey Arc, I could send you an adobe acrobat version. Email me at Charlekenghis@aol.com

No lawsuits. But for one thing, we need to demand that our media cover issues like this with as much fervor as they cover such things as Madonna’s new album or Anderson Cooper’s childhood crush. When have you ever seen a cover story in the Advocate or something on Logo about this sort of thing? The last time an article came out deconstructing the religious right was in 1997 and THAT article was in Rolling Stone magazine.

What I am saying is that we are not getting the information we need to get as a community when it comes to something like this. So when these things come up in legislative hearings – because they do – we are left out in the open. For that matter, we need to demand that our organizations do so more work on covering these things. GLAAD has an excellent Commentator Accountability Project which looks at stuff like this. It’s a start but we are WAY behind.

Some people confuse bragging about being a Christian with acting like one.

Has nothing to do with wanting ANYONE to accept my so-called lifestyle. It does have a lot to do with the Black church and the Black community playing the “don’t ask, don’t tell” game at its own detriment. And btw, what exactly is the “gay lifestyle” you keep talking about. You seem to talk about our lives as if we are dog dirt you are attempting to avoid.

As I stated before, the dilemma is the dual nature of the black church in regards to homosexuality allowing it to be exploited by forces and folks who don’t have the black community’s best interest at heart. You keep making this into a personal thing like I am in turmoil over how the black church views ME as a gay man. Such is not the case. But the two-faced nature in which black church deals with lgbts of color is a problem with ugly repercussions for both parties.

That’s the crux of the argument here, something I notice you are attempting to avoid.

I hate to say it but in the gay mainstream media, they get a free pass also. I would absolutely kill to see a cover story in the Advocate about what FRC does. I think this may be the root to the problem. If the movers and shakers who garner more attention in the gay community aren’t making noise, then the mainstream press won’t pay attention.

Remember robb, that one person’s response should not be used to generalize about an entire community. One more thing. The African-American community does not own the “Civil Rights Movement” any more than gays or any other people do.

I say that because I get annoyed when people call the African-American community’s struggle for equality in the 1950-60s the “Civil Rights Movement.” I always want to ask “well what do you call other movements for equality which came before the African-American civil rights movement?” Women’s right to vote was a “civil rights movement” as was the struggle in India against British rule which was led by Gandhi. The question of “is gay rights the same as civil rights” is a very lazy question. And it’s a stupid one.

Movements for “civil rights” have existed long before the African-American equality struggle and will exist long after the lgbt equality struggle. It does not belong to one race, gender, or sex. It is a universal struggle for equality and the right to self determination.

It’s not a personal matter of where I as an individual want to go. It is a matter of the two-faced nature of the Black church making the black community susceptible to anyone coming down the pike exploiting it against the gay community.

Perfect example would be the 2004 election when President Bush was doling out those faith-based initiatives to many black churches and black church leaders and how these same leaders vocally supported his cry against marriage equality.

They, and the black community, unfortunately found out the real depths of how the Bush Administration thought of the black community during Hurricane Katrina.

And speaking of the Bible, the main problem is people make too many assumptions as to what the Bible says because they are afraid to discuss different interpretations as to what is actually meant. You mentioned The Bible in your remarks, but you failed to mention God. The Bible itself is simply a book and should not be held in such high esteem that one forgets that it is supposed to be a conduit to God. It is simply impossible to follow the Bible word-for-word as a guide for your life. And this fact brings on new questions regarding homosexuality when one realizes that neither God nor Jesus actually said a word about homosexuality.

One of these days, it will be news if some enterprising members of the gay community actually uses their lies against them rather than going “ho-hum.”

People tend to continue to do bad things when they feel they can get away with them. And FRC continues what they do because very few will take what they do and use it against them in a tactical sense.

Actually, speaking as a black gay man, I definitely have to call out several of your points. In the churches I have attended, there are openly gay members. One church I know of had a transgender member. These are Baptist churches which supposedly preach against homosexuality. And might I remind you of the times in which prominent members of these churches who have preached against homosexuality were found in gay relationships themselves or have gotten into trouble because of gay relationships, i.e. Eddie Long.

The point I was making is that the Black church lives with a serious contradiction regarding lgbts of color and rather than bring it out in the open, a lot play “don’t ask, don’t tell.” This is wrong. It is hypocritical for a pastor or church members of verbally bash homosexuality while at the same time knowing of some members of the church who are gay and would be hurt by their words.

The Black church needs an open and honest dialogue, not only about homosexuality, but also about what interpretations of the Bible. Any African-American who will use the Bible to bash the gay community is woefully ignorant of his or her own history. It wasn’t that long ago that Biblical passages were used to justify slavery, segregation, and laws against interracial marriage.

What the Black church doesn’t need is a two-faced mindset about the gay community spurred by the folks who encourages ignorance rather than open dialogue.

I don’t think the studies say that one type of parenting is better than the other. The studies say that children in same-sex households do just as well as children in opposite-sex households. And the studies in question can be found within the links I provided.

Yes it was, Hunter. And I think we have proof of that – circumstantial, mind you, but it’s proof to raise some eyebrows. I’m looking into it now.

But you don’t forget truth. Their propaganda can be their undoing if we use it the right way.

Some folks we aren’t going to convince. But keep doing what we have been doing – i.e. personal conversations and educating people. My purpose in pushing this was to point out just how nasty and meanspirited these so-called
Christian groups are. We need to start using their words and videos against them because they give us so much material to work with.

Well damn! Isn’t NOM paying the salary of the group’s president, William Owens?

Point taken and noted. But speaking about our own communities, why is it that this doesn’t get any coverage in our major gay magazines. This should be cover story material at the very least.

But another way to look at it is what is the lgbt community doing about it? I see this situation like others involving the religious right. The SPLC called these organizations hate groups and then we expect the media to not give them any voice. But meanwhile, what is the lgbt community, our organizations, and our media doing to further the position that these groups deal in lies. It’s as if we want others to do all of the work when we should be on the front lines raising hell about this.

Folks, I understand your points, but I do not back away from my position. While not absolving Corkins, I stand by my assertion that FRC is to blame (at least partly) for what happened because it created the circumstances through its lies. I understand the need not to blame the victim but too many of us are going overboard to the point that WE seem to be absolving FRC of any responsibility in this situation. And FRC has responsibility. This is not a rationalization of hatred and it’s not a rationalization of violence. It is a genuine belief of mine that FRC seeks to escape culpability for its many of distortions and lies against the gay community and some of us are too quick to help the organization. We can be glad that no one was seriously hurt in this situation and we can pray that it never happens again. But don’t forget the point that FRC contributed to what happened by helping to create that wheel of fire which turned around and scorched it badly.

“Th’ hast spoken right, ’tis true.
The wheel is come full circle, I am here.” – King Lear.

ARC, if you still cannot download it, send me an email at charlekenghis@aol.com and i will shoot you a copy of the original file.