Dimwit.

I just did and what do you know. they still exist. Gotta tool around a bit.

If we can get a third party candidate with enough of a following that she is sought for interviews and such that views could be heard, something will happen. But you need someone who can really make the case and now you need money.

Occupy was really great when if first hit the scene. No doubt about that.

I do agree that Occupy made an impact. My point only was that it got shut down, or if not down, moved off the stage.

I actually think, or maybe it is hope, that what happened in TN will be a model for other places. I think there is a dynamic that could eventually change things, but it could take a long time. Groups are looking for other solutions. Here is a wild thought. The PTB always needed some of “us” to get things done. There are fewer of “us” who are willing to do it anymore or not enough. Maybe they have taken too much away. Think I will just go back to the scotch now.

I suppose that is always a risk.

Good points.

It is a tough nut. I had hopes for Occupy but it went nowhere. The only other way is to start all over at the local level and build the kind of party you want. Someone suggested that it is not all that hard, that many at the local level are looking for new blood all the time. There’s this story of how the local party leadership was willing to just resign if someone took their jobs.

What I was suggesting on the third party was that if, if, some third party candidate caught the public’s interest, it could bring forth a better candidate from one of the major parties, i.e. that candidate could preempt the third party. But I don’t know. Just wild guessing.

And, if there is no way, let’s at least acknowledge that reality.

More and more I gravitate to that answer. I am starting to think that improvements happen only by accident. Every once in a while a person with a real vision or capacity comes along and a small move is made to improve the lot of the average person. In between and for most of the time, the greed of the top makes certain nothing really changes.

We live in a perpetual lesser of two evils state. I think that is the norm and not the exception. And in the way our government works a third party is an utter non starter, except perhaps in the off chance the public really wants a chance, and even then it will likely be realized within one of the established parties.

We could, but we do not, make remarkable improvements. The knowledge base is there. But the use of government for the public purpose just does not happen and it would appear there is little we can do about it.

I think a lot of people have been saying something like that for around three days now. But the talking points on both sides never seem to get old.

That is interesting. The one percenters can survive crashes. Hell, they just did. So they recover and rip off some more from the other 99% and most people don’t even recognize they are being cheated. Just repeat after me……..

That rings true to me.

I thought this was all about a SF Pride parade. Why can’t the parade organizers decide what is in their own best interests? I don’t know, but I would guess they want to reach the largest number of people to celebrate what they have achieved and work towards the future. If Manning doesn’t fit in, so be it. That is their decision.

Yes, and it could all change with an engaged electorate. The only thing we have going for the 99% now is the government deficit may be getting too small and that will impact profits – - and it won’t take long.

A society where knowledge is irrelevant, replaced by focus-group tested slogans and canned talking points created by and for oligarchs isn’t a democracy.

Marcy Wheeler and emptywheel can do seminal work but the focus groups determine what gets believed. It is the same in economics. There’s Krugman, Baker and a large and growing number of MMT and post Keynesian economists who could collectively, and with certainty, end the scourges of unemployment and poverty and install a reliable health care and educational system. But they are drowned out by those talking points and politicians with small minds.

That is a sight. Never saw anything quite like it.

It appears you not only need political leaders and publics but a citizenry that forces the political class, aka the one percent, to make decisions based on the publics. We certainly don’t have an involved citizenry. Too many recite the talking points of the political class with not thinking, as commentators above noted. Southern Europe reminds me of places that have been literally defeated in a war like environment. Both they and us desperately need some catalyst to break this mold. So what is it?

yes, and where I worked you really don’t want to be hanging around the SCI, even if you could find it.

A cavalier attitude about this sort of thing in the name of some light you see is not acceptable.

After all this I will actually send a few dollars for his defense bc I think he just did not know WTF. Enough for one day.

I do wish we could do that. I mean clean up the shit.