• A little research would show that the US has been supporting Ukrainian fascists since the end of WWII, seventy years ago. In 1945 the US Army absorbed Reinhard Gehlen’s “Org”, the Nazi intelligence unit for Eastern Europe, under the Treaty of Fort Hunt. When the CIA was created a few years later these Nazis moved into the new spy organization. The current events in Ukraine are merely a continuation of the “rollback” strategy used against the Soviet Union, then Russia.

  • First this: http://consortiumnews.com/2013/12/17/judge-leons-dirty-climb-to-the-bench/

    And this: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/13/at-tea-party-like-rally-obama-told-to-put-the-quran-down/

    If this guy Leon earned his points with Bush for covering up Iran-contra why is he such a civil libertarian now? And Klayman is a right-wing hack.

    Two things can be true. Government spying is bad. It was bad in the sixties and it’s bad today. Also, pinning the NSA to Obama is a political op.

    As for Merkel, considering the intersections of Arab terrorism with the BND (Pan Am 103 and 9/11 for two) I’d suggest less trust and more spying on the Germans. In fact, their bad intelligence regarding the Sarin gas in Syria almost got us into another war.

  • bobInpacifica commented on the diary post It’s Not a Family and Those Aren’t Jewels by David Swanson.

    2013-11-16 20:33:12View | Delete

    Watch the coverage of JFK’s murder. You get to see all the people in the media who work for the CIA.

  • Perhaps there is a connection between the Hamburg terrorist cell which begat Mo Atta and German intelligence.

  • ACA was a way to buy off the insurance companies. I hear that Vermont is making plans for a single-payer. How they do it will be interesting, and if it is successful then I’m sure other states will follow. Maybe not in South, but certainly on the West Coast.

  • bobInpacifica commented on the diary post My top ten dreams for the new Glenn Greenwald/Pierre Omidyar/Laura Poitras/Jeremy Scahill online paper. by Steelydan3 (Philip Shropshire).

    2013-11-02 08:32:06View | Delete

    That’s always been my test between actual truthtellers and entertainers. For ex, Chomsky states a lot of obvious things but his book of the JFK assassination was truly awful.

  • At the risk of incurring the wrath of Sarah, three days ago I floated under another story that the timing of Snowden’s revelations seemed designed to injure the Obama Administration and that Snowden, instead of being the earnest truthteller that some think may instead be an intelligence operative and his travels are part of a psyop.

    I suggested that he either is working for an element of American intelligence that has been bent on sabotaging Obama or he was turned by the BND when he was in Switzerland working for the CIA. The history of the BND being involved in various terrorist activities directed against the US over the past several decades opens another possibility: that there is a fifth column of sorts within the intelligence community aligned with German intelligence.

    Saying that, I find that the idea of Snowden seeking asylum in Germany most curious.

  • I would point out that Mr. Walker captions the photo of Obama at the top of this article with “Did Obama allow a rogue NSA to develop a frightening level of power?” This is precisely the point I’ve been trying to address. If one has an understanding of America’s intelligence history it’s hard to still cling to the idea that any President controls it. It’s sort of like saying “Did wayoutwest allow the US to invade Iraq?” He wasn’t in on the final decision.

  • Sarah, it’s somewhere in the comments section. If I mistook someone else’s post for yours then I apologize.

    Perhaps a better way to put it is the level of Obama’s complicity. I think I’ve pretty much expressed my feelings above.

  • wayoutwest, you quickly devolved to ad hominems. If it’s a contest, I won. If it’s keeping an open mind and exploring points of view beyond your nose, you lost.

  • Exactly. Elsewhere someone (I believe Sarah) incredulously asks if the person she was responding to does not believe that Obama is the source of evil.

    The answer is no. The evil of our intelligence community existed long before Obama ran for office and will exist after he’s gone. Presidents are not the pinnacle of power in America. It’s the corporations, the military and the intelligence services. The latter two are pretty much merged now, and the corporations pretty much declare who the next villain we have to attack is.

    That Snowden emerged and, with Greenwald’s help, declared that Obama is the source of evil, which Sarah has swallowed, indicates to me that someone in the intelligence community, either ours or Germany’s, is not particularly happy with Obama. Maybe because he didn’t embrace a war in Syria or bomb Iran. Or something else.

    There is a simple way to test this hypothesis. First, did the CIA spy on its own citizens and enemies and allies alike before Obama? Then, does Merkel and the BND not listen in on its allies? Germany was strutting around about their spy ship intercepting phone calls of Syria’s leaders. So they too are capable of listening in. Do you really think that they stop with Syria?

    I define Presidents as either being consonant with the intelligence program or slightly off the reservation. JFK said he was going to tear the CIA into a thousand pieces. LBJ gave them their war in Vietnam. Nixon was too much of an independent operator so former ONI guy Bob Woodward wrote down about all the “ex-CIA” (without really identifying them as such) who set up Nixon. Before they pulled the string on Nixon they made sure that Ford, friend of the CIA and member of the Warren Commission, was appointed VP. Carter’s CIA head Stansfield Turner tried to weed out all the cowboys in CIA ops and Carter’s political history went down with the botched rescue attempt (unknown Ollie North oversaw the rescue). And the October Surprise. Reagan, who had been a spokesman for one of the CIA’s operation paperclip thingies post-WWII next sat in the chair, but who was overseeing the drugs in/guns out program but that former CIA Director GHW Bush. I suspect that Bill Clinton was connected going back to his days as a Rhodes scholar. He and Hillary were probably doing menial spy work at that time, Bill meeting with anti-war radicals in Europe and Hillary spending summers spying on the Black Panthers or working on the Dems’ legal team for Watergate and reporting back to Langley. Certainly, by the time CIA pilots were littering Mena with duffel bags of cocaine Bill was onboard. Dubya needs no explanation, although if you look at his unsuccessful business career the failed companies look like CIA laundries.

    So I suspect that Obama has some working knowledge of how power is distributed in Washington. These Snowden disruptions are actually the best indication that there is some friction between him and the Agency. The fact that this is similar to the CIA’s false defector program of the late 1950s makes me more suspicious. I wouldn’t doubt that Obama was actually chosen to be President so that he could be the black guy scapegoat for their sins. But I’m still thinking the BND has their fingers in this pie.

  • Note my above post (98). A week or so before the Senate vote on FISA in 2008 Obama’s campaign plane (it was actually a substituted plane, not his regular one) had mechanical problems and had to make an emergency landing. If I’m not mistaken, there were family members on that plane too. Then Obama had a rally in Dallas. The Secret Service for some reason turned off the metal detector at the entrance. Prior to this Obama had indicated he would vote no. When the vote came he voted yes.

    Look it up.

  • wayoutwest, I guess we can swap silly accusations about who is a CIA agent or not, but it’s really a waste of time. In the mid-nineties we knew that the NSA had the ability to listen in on any phone call that went through a communications satellite. When you deal with a cancerous expansion of power potential quickly become reality. Covert Action Information Bulletin, if you read it, had the whole story back then. If you waited twenty years for confirmation, then I applaud your cautiousness but I’m guessing you are either too young or had other things on your mind.

    I guess you’ve finally digested that the intelligence services spy. The information is not that important, it’s not new. I mentioned to Sarah B. about the false defector program. Are you aware of that? Do you see the parallels with the Snowden saga or do you refuse to acknowledge them?

    Here’s the thing: I agree that the CIA and NSA are not omnipotent, no one is. But it is you who thinks that that’s what I’m saying. I’m glad that you have finally come to the realization that our government spies on us. They pull psyops on us too. Think of them getting you to believe that an agent is a hero. Wouldn’t that be something! So when you bite on the morsel of knowledge that you hadn’t known about you gobble up Glenn Greenwald and Ron Paul and all that other libertarian stuff.

    My position isn’t really so dangerous if you allow for open minds. I find the defection exceedingly suspicious. When things like this happen I always ask “Cui bono?” Clearly, the enemies of the sitting President are benefiting. He’s being bad-jacketed with what the intelligence services have been doing for decades. So who are the enemies of the sitting President? I’m not talking the old Republican-Democrat meme because the Republican Party has been staunchly behind the surveillance state since before JFK bought the farm and can’t complain about the spying beyond a point. Certainly, the Paulistas would like to build a coalition with the lefties as long as you give up aborting fetuses and demanding equal rights and most importantly let the corporations run things, and who knows, maybe you already have. Is there a wing in the intelligence community who would back petty fascists’ political movements? I mean domestically. They back fascists overseas all the time. Or maybe the BND wants to embarrass the US. Now that the Cold War is over Germany and the US are as much competitors as allies. German bankers have managed to do what the German army couldn’t. You know all about the historic links between German intelligence and the CIA, right? It is easier to conquer from within than without.

    I find it fascinating that it was a BND listening post ship in the eastern Mediterranean that fed that false story of the Syrian leadership panicking over the sarin gas to the US. Not so much the story but the spin, that they were the authors of the attack. Cui bono? If the US gets involved in yet another war against a Muslim state who benefits? Well, certain Saudi Arabia, who played both sides in WWII, will benefit. And the Euro benefits. And if the US backs off Syria and normalizes things with Iran does Bandar Bush start learning his German?

    My position is merely to keep an eye on how these entities continue to react in the context of this (unremarkable) news that the US spies on its allies along with everyone else.

    In 2008 candidate Obama was initially against the FISA bill. The week prior to the vote his plane had to make an emergency landing because of mechanical problems. Then he had a rally in DALLAS where the Secret Service shut down the metal detector at the entrance. Those are high and inside fastballs. Then Obama switched from no to yes.

    I don’t think you recognize the hierarchy. Whatever your feelings about Obama, he’s not the source of evil. Since 1963 Presidents don’t have that authority. There are plenty of Presidents whose goals are consonant with the military-industrial-intelligence community. There have been a couple who balk a little. I think that Obama (and Carter) fall into the latter category. But really, they are just actors on the stage.

    Keep an open mind as the story develops.

  • Very good. That means you are theoretically open to Snowden not being what he claims to be. And thank you for confirming that shit stinks. If it’s okay with you I’ll spare you lists of authors.

    And it’s true that there is no true, complete history. But that doesn’t mean that you ignore things. Do you know about the false defector program, or do you dismiss its existence or importance because there’s no reference to it on your bookshelves? Because there are a number of parallels between it and Mr. Snowden’s adventures. But never mind if you don’t know about it.

    I’m not saying that I approve of the NSA’s spying or the CIA at all. I lived through Kennedy being murdered by the CIA. And King and Malcolm X and Bobby Kennedy being killed by the government. I lived through the CIA running their coup of Nixon, and God knows I never liked Nixon. I witnessed Jimmy Carter being sabotaged by the CIA. I’ve been spied on since I was in the anti-war movement in the sixties. My union was spied on, my bookstore. People I voted for were spied on. So, no I don’t like the spy world.

    That’s probably why I don’t trust someone with Snowden’s history to have suddenly become a civil libertarian who is allegedly willing to go to jail or risk his life to tell us that the NSA has been listening to phone calls around the world. Considering that the Germans were so proud of listening in to phone calls of leaders in Syria earlier this year from their ship in the eastern Mediterranean, and considering that someone in the BND probably has read the PUZZLE PALACE too, do you really think that Merkel’s outrage is genuine? And if her outrage isn’t genuine, can you draw anything from that?

  • I’m sorry, Sarah. Revisionist? How so? Are you saying that Ollie North didn’t work on the hostage rescue mission or that you didn’t know, are you saying that the October Surprise didn’t happen or that you didn’t know, or did you mean that you’re too young to really know anything about it so you don’t want to be bothered with things that happened before you were born?

    And what other history don’t we need to know?

    And of course it must be conspiracy theory because…? Because it’s tin foil territory to suspect that Snowden, who spent his adult life working for intelligence agencies and their privatized spinoffs might still be working for someone? How crazy is that!!! Why that would mean that you may have to rearrange who wears the white hat and who wears the black hat and that would be complicated and revisionist.

    Sarah, I’m guessing that you don’t want to entertain anything that conflicts with your belief system, and that’s fine. You didn’t need to get personal unless you were personally injured by ideas and had no other way to defend your delicate ego. Because you really said nothing but shut up, and that is a pretty sorry defense of your ideas.

  • Yes, I’m a CIA agent because the CIA wants to announce to you that they killed JFK and have had control over the Executive Branch ever since. Sarah, I’m not sure what your point even is beyond that you feel the need to defend Snowden. Great. Rah rah rah.

  • The history of our intelligence community has nothing to do with Edward Snowden because he was born in the 80s? Sarah, there’s a saying about not knowing history you should look up.

  • I can’t figure out who is complaining about glibness or something I wrote or something someone else wrote. I’m the son of a combat veteran too. Let’s have a drink sometime and arm-wrestle. Whoops. There I go being glib again.

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