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  • “vocal theists” — was she preaching? What did she say? “bring a church flyer, get a 10% discount”. I don’t call that vocal theism. You want to, that’s fine and that’s entirely your right . . . but respectfully, I think you’re setting the bar for oppressive religious zealotry pretty darn low.

    And no, you’re right — a 10% discount on hush puppies is exactly the same thing as walking on criminal charges. Using that logic, prohibiting this lady from offering the discount is exactly the same thing as the State banning all churches, right?

    Look, this level of (IMO) hyper-overreaction is exactly the attitude I mock in the FarRight. Obama wants to give schoolkids a lollipop? That’s Socialist-motivated wealth re-distribution! That’s a little silly. Let’s change the ticket for getting the discount from “church flyer” to “getting married”. Gay marriage is still illegal in PA . . . is she oppressing gays? I wouldn’t say so. Heck, that’s even more extreme than what she did, since anybody can get a church bulletin but not everybody can get married (to whom they want). Still not oppressive IMO.

    Its clear this (anything connected with religion) is a serious topic for you. Again, that’s fine, that’s your right, and rail against it to your heart’s content. I respectfully disagree. I’m not a Christian, I don’t go to church, I’m not advocating for any sort of Theism (or non-Theism) whatsoever. I just don’t see this as advocating for Theism, let alone “vocal militant” advocacy. If someone doesn’t want to walk into a church and get a bulletin, that’s their right. But its not as if walking inside a church causes an Atheist to catch on fire, or makes them re-examine their (non)faith in any way. If their friends were getting married in a church, would he refuse to attend rather than step on church grounds? What is he, a vampire? Its a building. Some people like walking in, some don’t. But everybody can walk in and get the bulletin. Christians don’t get any special benefit — the bulletin isn’t hand-delivered to them while Atheists have to cross an alligator pit. They both do the exact same amount of work, take the exact same steps. If an Atheist can’t step foot in a church, that’s their issue, not the churches.

    Change “church bulletin” to “bumper sticker for local Democratic candidate”. In both cases, you have to walk into a particular building say “please give me X”, then take it to the restaurant. Both cases involve ideology and personal preference tangentially. If a Republican is so offended by the concept of setting foot inside the Dem Party headquarters they can’t stomach doing it, fine. Send someone else in to get it for you or don’t get the discount. But is the Republican being oppressed? Are beliefs being forced upon them? Not to me. The only thing I see different between the two scenarios is one uses that most evil of words, “religion”. I don’t support religion, but I don’t have anything inherently against it either. I disagree with Republicans (very, very strongly), but I managed to walk into the Repub headquarters around here last week and I didn’t break into hives, even under the watchful gaze of the giant Saint Ronnie mural they have on the wall.

    This doesn’t read to me as “help! I’m being oppressed!”. Instead, this reads like “I hate religion so much that I want to fight it whenever and however I can”. Just my personal opinion here, but I think there’s just generally too much aggression over non-critical issues nowadays.

  • As your quote is mine, I’ll assume you’re responding to me.

    “militant theism” — really? You call a 10% discount on a meal once a week for customers that voluntarily enter the business, without any preaching involved whatsoever, “militant theism”? That seems a little hysterical.

    “deliberate attempts to push religious exclusion” — Good point. After all, these non-church-goers are being punished by . . . being served by the restaurant at their regular posted prices, the exact same as everybody else without the discount flyer on Sunday, regardless of ideology, and the same price and service as everybody on every other day of the week. Talk about exclusion! Atheists just can’t get that one-day, 10% discount like Christians can . . . oh wait, yes they can. So they’re being excluded in what way exactly? A local restaurant in my town offers a 15% discount for students from the local college. That is a discount I will never be able to take advantage of. Am I being “excluded”? If a business decides to provide Occupy protesters with a free bottle of water, am I as a customer being “excluded” by having to buy my bottle?

    I am opposed to militant Atheism. I’m also opposed to militant Theism. Truth be told, I’m opposed to pretty much anything “militant”. I’m just failing to see the devious oppression at play here.

  • Fair enough in terms of delineating the difference between my admittedly poor example, but I’m still unclear as to why that’s relevant. We’re not talking about government action here — its a private citizen, in their private business. While I wouldn’t run my business this way, I can’t see why they shouldn’t be able to. It’s not as if the owner is excluding non-churchgoers from service, or charging them more than they charge other customers. Is there a practical difference between giving a discount or adding a surcharge? While I can’t enunciate how the two are different . . . they feel different to me.

    I’m even a little shaky as to how this is based on ideology. A devout Christian without a church bulletin doesn’t get the discount, and a committed atheist that walks in and gets the bulletin does get the discount, so the customer’s ideology seems to be fairly irrelevant. You don’t have to profess belief in a faith, or convert, or anything like that. As far as I can tell, a customer can walk in, say “here’s a church bulletin I found laying in the street, and just so you know I despise Christianity and will never support it” yet still get the discount.

    Is there any allegation that her prices are inflated? It’s the same price on Sunday for a meal that it is for a meal every other day of the week. Feel free to disagree, but I just don’t see that as some form of punishment to non-church-goers. Just my opinion.

  • In regards to the Atheist lawsuit . . . how is this different than giving a free ice cream cone to kids that get an “A” on their report card? I’m not a fan of militant atheism, and I can’t fathom what the basis of his complaint is.

  • Yup. Red circle, white cross within, and Blood of Christ drop in the center. Normally its presented with the cross going up and down, rather than in the “X” form this nimrod has it.

  • Is this really that surprising? Its a Christian Identity meeting . . . that does sort of inherently imply racism. This is like being surprised a Aryan Nation rally being segregated.

    (btw, “Christian Identity” doesn’t mean someone who identifies as a christian, but rather is a specific sect of Christianity that really, really doesn’t like non-whites).

  • Aside from “its a good idea”, why do this now? Why drop the issue into the growing election cycle?

    For all the “Obama is not meeting our expectations”, I feel relatively comfortable assuming whomever gets the GOP nod would be a damn sight worse. Why give a demoralized opponent a reason to rally? Save the petition for next year, when there’s no liability (or at least much less liability).

    I’m for anything that pushes toward legalization, but after waiting 3 decades I’m willing to wait another year if it might help tip the scales in my favor . . . and doesn’t risk dozens of other subjects that would be endangered by GOP gains.

  • busboy33 commented on the blog post Late Night FDL: Xyzzy Gaming

    2011-09-17 21:15:17View | Delete

    I’m fairly surprised at how few gamers there are at the Lake.

    I’m a regular gamer . . . have been since my parents got an Atari 2600. Don’t play on my computer though — pretty much exclusively on the 360 (gamertag: busboy33). Types of games? well, just about anything — FPSs, racers, strategy, cards, music, you name it. Currently waiting for Gears3 next Tuesday, Forza4 next month and Skyrim in November.

    Don’t play in open rooms though. There’s just too many jerks. I’ve got a good group of players (Team Waxy) and we just play privately. I’ve got people in my Team from around the country and around the world . . . and although I’ve played with these people for years, I’ve met only two. Despite never meeting them in person they are my good friends, a I’d rather spend an hour or two laughing with them online than watching tv any day of the week.