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  • While I agree with the article, i disagree with the title:

    Yale Professor Tells Parents Not To Send Children To Ivy League Schools

    Why remove ourselves (our children) from the pool? Yes, the game is rigged, everyone should know it. For example when Gore was running, I learned that his 4 children went to Harvard. Statistically that seems impossible unless he had perfect children, and still many perfect children get rejected. So it is legacy. If schools like Harvard graduate the leaders of tomorrow as they have done throughout history, why not push for more middle and lower class children get in. And I am not talking about revolution from the inside…I am more talking “plan B”.

  • I′m not sure what inference you drew from my paradigm, both points, but if you imagined that it involved the cynical wholesale fraud also known as the two-state solution

    What I acknowledged is that I believe that 1. Palestinians should have a state and 2. Palestinians have the rights to fight Israel.

    I do not blame Hamas for “starting it” by launching rockets. I recognize them the right to do that. In this sense I also do not blame the Israeli government for reacting, it is predictable. From there many things are being argued, such as proportionality, intent…

    As for what state it will be (number 1), 2 states, one federal state, I have no idea as other factors come in such as geo political factors (Iran, Saudi, Turkey, Egypt, the USA, Russia, the EU, China…and so on). On another post I said i was interested with a federal solution, such as Canada, Switzerland, Belgium…and i think it is an option that should be talked about more.

  • LOL…there is nothing to ignore, they say they don’t know :)

  • NYT says it is not known at this time if the hit came from Israeli army or rockets from Hamas, maybe what they mean by crossfire.

  • the People of Gaza have nothing to lose? Israel can lose everything in terms of a sound and moral society.

    Yes, I mostly agree on that. I was not trying to diminish the suffering of the people of Gaza, just fighting the political propaganda. I do not think the people in Gaza have much choice. Their choices are narrowed by their location, the political situation, their religious culture. The same can be told of Israel, even as they seem powerful. But they are not the ones doing most the suffering. I do not know the solution. I cannot accept the destruction of the Jewish state (and I intentionally say Jewish state for Israel because that is really at the heart of the debate) but Palestinians, no matter what is said of their history, the reasons they were kept as “refugees”, deserve a state. Someone mentioned a Federal System like Switzerland, Canada, Belgium…and I thought it was a hopeful idea…maybe the best.

    the more Gazans die, the more world hate increases toward Israel.

    Some could say that Israel has lost the PR war, but i believe they have lost it since the early 70′s. It is as much an existential issue for Israelis as it is for Palestinians so it is just part of the war for Israel. They thought that US educated and English speaking slick Netanyahu would be able to counter the PR…has not worked.

    I admire how you try to defend Israel?

    Thank you, and I enjoy the conversation too. I make no secret that I support a Jewish state. It does not mean that I support their government or oppose everything their government do. I try to be reasonable and use logic. I chose not to be emotional about this topic, a conscious choice. I get more emotional about topics here at home.
    I appreciate logic and reason and even more new ideas. I also have the same tendency as many to support the under-dog. If the debate was more balanced here, i probably would not comment, and for sure not comment as much. Thank you for your part in the discussion.

  • Thanks for the insults. I have been a Lake member for more than 3 years. My only handle.

  • The problem with you is that you think that we want to have a late-night dorm-room debate

    Maybe guilty…as most of us have the luxury to have intellectual debate from the safety of our “castles”. Even if what you are accusing me is true, I am sure that some appreciate that type of debate and for them I add to the discussion. As a reminder, my quote was addressed to someone has insulted, ignored arguments and played games in general, as far as his interaction with me has been. As far as what is happening on the ground, we have conflicting narratives, you trust some sources, other you don’t, same with me and we almost everyone else. We come to this topic (and many others) biased and tend to get confirming biases. So we can argue “facts” until the cows come home. I prefer to argue logic and rationalism. One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Admiral Rickover:

    Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.

  • I am comparing the claims made about those rockets. Many have claimed those are homemade firecrackers. I know better. Homemade firecrackers cannot reach as far as Tel Aviv. Those claiming they are firecrackers want to prove how disproportionate the Israeli answer is. That also is another topic and my mind is open. So far i am not convinced. For more than 2000 Israeli bombing raids, and a ground invasion, in the most populated place on the planet, I see the total casualty numbers are very very small. Compare it to almost any other place in the world. Of course any casulty is bad…but i will be again accused to

    pretend to care.

  • Happened also with Native Americans I believe…your point? The problem with you is that you are not even trying to contribute to the conversation…you want it to be a verbal fight where one wins…and you are not doing that well from what i have seen before.

    I was responding to someone who claimed that Gaza civilians WANT to die…and it is not what I have heard from the media and the net…

  • We are at war with Euresia Eastasia

  • Yes, agree on all your points. Anti terrorism has replaced red fear mongering, but maybe the ME can breath as we may still revive red fear with the latest events. The 1% need to find us an enemy so we forget about them…which is also one of the reason our government supports Israel…for the Arab world to focus their rancor on Israel and the Jews rather than each other…the enemy of my enemy…

  • No nation has weapons that can only kill soldiers in an urban area.


    Israel idea of warning people before they bomb is not logical or rational.
    1st the people who are shooting rockets are going to leave

    Disagreed. Israel official line is that the are destroying rockets, rocket launching sites, and tunnels. So, according to their narrative, they want to destroy the infrastructure. Those rocket launchers are not so mobile anymore, not when you launch rockets as far as Tell Aviv. Those are more powerful rockets from stationary launching pads. Now, if you can show logically or rationally that their narrative is false…

  • despite every PR attempt to deflect attention

    I believe that Hamas is wining the PR war. Even here some the few supporters of Israel have been silenced (not by the Lake but by the many posts on this topic and the responses to those posts). Of course it can be argued that no one can defend the indefensible, but that would clash with the meme that Israel has a huge PR team ;)

  • Two civilians killed and a rocket hitting about a mile away from an airport, in your mind, compares with the carnage in Gaza?

    Straw man attempt as I was not comparing the assault of Gaza with the rockets attacks. That is another topic that has been talked here before. I was comparing the narratives of “inoffensive firecrackers” with closing an airport and a couple civilian death.

    As for the other points, I am sorry, i do not see the gain for Israel to target those children. I do not understand why the original reporter, who filmed the event, did not go to the beach later to film the buildings nearby to see if the Israeli claim had any validity. Similarly I do not think pro Russian destroyed the civilian plane on purpose, nor the USA bombed 2 weddings on purpose. It is war, and one of the reason war is bad. On that maybe we can agree.

  • Just when it seems the bottom of the blame-the-victims barrel has been scraped…

    A lot has been said, and alas including at the Lake. That Israelis are targeting children, that they “mow the grass”, that they used White Phosphorus…and so on. I understand that all sides use PR as part of the war.

    A few of the biggest claims seems easier to analyze. For days for example it had been claimed that the rockets Hamas used were just inoffensive firecrackers…but then a civilian dies…then another one…then most Airline companies banned flying to Tel Aviv afraid of rocket fire. Both sides of this narrative cannot be true at the same time.

    In the same vein, after days of claims that Palestinians cannot flee when warned, and claims that Hamas are telling them to stay, I wonder why whey do not flee like it seems civilians do anywhere else in the world under similar circumstances…

  • Maybe it has also to do with the culture. Suicide bombers have the same attitude you describe even as many do not live in the terrible situation they live in Gaza. I remember during the Iraq/Iran war reading about them sending waves after waves just to be mowed down…and still continuing sending waves…

  • What is Israel going to do when the people of GAZA start running toward the tanks, wishing to die? so the world can see? “this is coming!”

    Could go any way…could be like Tiananmen Square with total repression (hard to do when it seems all the ME media is there)…could be a quick withdraw with face attempting maneuvers like in Lebanon…could be attempt at real peace talks (I don’t hold my breath).

    But it could also go another way, the ISIS way, or any other way.

  • I also have seen those reports. What i do not get is that Gaza ia still 12 miles long if i recall, and Israel is only bombing the North. Why don’t the civilians flee to the south of Gaza, or even to Egypt? It seems that everywhere in the world there is conflict the civilian population flees, even to their neighbors, see what is happening in Iraq or Syria for example, why is it so different in Gaza?

  • DrVonNagle commented on the blog post The Circle of Strife

    2014-07-24 10:02:44View | Delete

    I was in France a few months ago. The Jewish community was promoting a controversial movie (not sure I can find the title now) about a young Jewish man who got abducted, asked for ransom (his family was quite poor but because he was a Jew the kidnapers thought all Jews have money), tortured, and finally burned to death. This real event shocked the Jewish community and France in general. I did not care for the movie, I believe it confuses a band of young Arab hooligans for a political action, their race or religion was irrelevant to their actions. The connection was only that they bought in the cultural stereotypes that Jews are not humans and are rich. But it is undeniable that antisemitism is raising in Europe, and that started before the latest clashes.

  • Your post ignore the fact that there is still declared war between Israel and their neighbors. For example, your first link, Jews only road…this is in the occupied territories (West Bank) under military command. The author of the article does not give details but I imagine that it is a road that leads to one of the Jewish settlements. If you want to accuse Israel of Apartheid in the occupied territories and Gaza, I could agree.

    I just noticed that all your 3 links lead to the same essay. Second point is understandable, Palestinians are supposed to have permits to travel in Israel to counter terrorism. The last point did not have enough information to comment. I know that Israel’s hospitals are reputed for treating in need Palestinians, so I do not know if it is just Israeli PR, or what the circumstances of the claim are.

    Thank you for the welcome, I have been here a couple years I believe.

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