• Critically important post, Kevin, the media, here, are unlikely to deviate from the “official story … line”, as the US media is part of the political class and loath to risk the displeasure of power or wealth … both of which are deeply “invested” in the US-Israeli violence machine.

    While I am glad that reporters such as Jon Snow will insist on BEING reporters, the average US citizen will likely not hear or see reports from actual professionals … the well-coiffed “news” spokespeople with their vapid and vacuous spiels will spin tales of heroism and mutual support.

    Therefore, your work is all the more appreciated, here.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post New Facebook Page Equates Sex with Israeli War on Gaza

    2014-07-25 19:18:31View | Delete

    The echos from a certain time reverberate with increasing frenzy, CTut.

    It would seem that we have been slouching toward this “place” for quite some time … note the passionate intensities …

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post New Facebook Page Equates Sex with Israeli War on Gaza

    2014-07-25 19:11:39View | Delete

    You don’t find it seriously and enthrallingly titivating, the penultimate finishing adornment of righteous religious conquest, the final sine qua non embellishment of the never-ending crusade for total domination of one people by another?

    Why, eCAHN, I’m surprised at you. Peter lays before you, after expending great effort, the bare facts, the naked truth of certain “sentiments”, as it were, and you mention sewers?

    Totally tubular!

    ;~DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 18:54:25View | Delete

    Ah, marym, a true pleasure it is to share the threads with you.

    Namaste

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post New Facebook Page Equates Sex with Israeli War on Gaza

    2014-07-25 18:49:21View | Delete

    Likely so, kafka, likely so.

    Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men (and women) …?

    In this shadow world, this “new world order”, this Pax Americana, we all may come to know, all too well, all too intimately … and all too soon … if not … too late, to change our collective course.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 18:34:58View | Delete

    You are a one man misinformation machine.

    You have made your point.

    Few of us agree … however, as I have said, we are the minority, you, and Israel do not need our agreement to kill, and our disagreement will neither hinder nor stop the killing.

    That you feel you need to remain here, arguing, to little avail, with us, hearing little of what we try to share … suggests some discomfort in your own conscience, otherwise you would blithely forgive our failings as you perceive them, and leave us to our own misguided struggles.

    That you want and need our agreement says, clearly, that despite what you say and claim to believe, that you are not wholly certain.

    You must wrestle with your conscience MrJimm … on your own, as each of us must, as regards what is occurring.

    DW

  • I’m certain that the ACLU and other legal action groups are involved, RevBev.

    I do worry very much that officers of the courts in this country, for whatever reasons, cannot or will not recognize patterns repeated and again, intent upon the same purpose … the expansion of governmental power, especially of the executive … with the ready assistance, if not simpering acguiescence, too often, of a court … if “national security” claims are made. The courts have an obligation beyond accommodation … the exercise of which is indispensable to actual democracy.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 18:01:05View | Delete

    Well, MrJimm, I’m not here to make you happy, I’m here, on this thread to express the truth and considered humanity the way I see it.

    And frankly, it makes me sad to witness the truth of genocide by a people whom I have long felt were treated very horribly themselves, yet it makes me sadder still to realize that certain human beings have, apparently learned nothing.

    Since we are all but temporary observers of human behavior, it appears to me that life is much more precious than people seem to realize.

    Gaza, Irag, and Syria, are all under or have been under attack from either Israel of the US … indeed, the history of the US in the Middle East is one of shame and abuse. The US, for example, deposed the democratically elected head of Iran, Mossedegh, replaced him with the Shah and then the CIA set up Savak.

    As you might imagine, Israel gets far less of my attention and my disgust and concern than the US … both nations are wedded to violence as the FIRST option, both nations believe they are “chosen” and both have racist tendencies and hierarchies, governmental and economic, of insulated elites who care little about the lives of average human beings IN THEIR OWN NATION.

    To clear up a confusion you seem to be having, my sympathies lie with the people of Israel quite as much as with the people of Gaza … my disgust is with power, with government policies of violence, apartheid, and exclusion … with careless indifference and the obscene belief that some people are inherently better than others … with injustice, with the use of fear as a political instrument, and with the notion destruction is an effective way to build trust and understanding.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 17:29:23View | Delete

    Israel is doing itself no favors and, to suggest that the rest of the world owes Israel something akin to gratitude, for this genocide, is amazingly pathological and bloodthirsty.

    MrJimm, may your God have the mercy upon you which you cannot find in your heart, or your mind, to treat your fellow human beings with …

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 17:23:42View | Delete

    MrJimm, Israel has NEVER tried to treat the Palestinians as equals.

    One does not try to push one’s equal into the sea, one does not put one’s equal in ghettos, one does not indiscriminately seek to kill one’s equals.

    Frankly, your comments are always assuming that Israel is and always has been the victim, has always been measured and humane in its actions toward the Palestinians … who have ALWAYS, according to your “history”, been hateful, spiteful, and vicious …. just as you assume that those, here, who don’t mention Hamas, don’t blame Hamas and, by extension, the entire population of Gaza, that, somehow, that means that we support Hamas.

    And yes, Israel has virtually no REASON for their behavior, now or in the past, Israel has only its own pathologies to blame for the despair and desperation of the Palestinians … and for Israel’s increasingly rapid descent into depravity and madness, in the eyes of humans who are not blinded by cant, greed, and religious intolerance.

    DW

  • Kevin, what do you consider, realistically, are the chances that a district court judge would intentionally upset the obvious game, at the federal level, that is going on? This is a circus, an opportunity to intimidate, to frighten, to propagandize the entire country to embrace the fortress “homeland” meme so much in vogue, and so useful to the political class since 911.

    One might imagine that the entire American legal profession would have caught on, by now… and that they don’t like what they see …

    However, there is damnably little evidence, none in fact, to encourage such imagining …

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 16:50:37View | Delete

    Well then, how many human beings are you prepared to kill to “stop” Hamas?

    How about offering the people of Gaza a better deal than Hamas?

    Could you, MrJimm, or Israel do that?

    Could you disarm ill-will, if that is what you consider it, with good will, with decency, kindness, and humanity?

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 16:39:22View | Delete

    To the question of “freedom” in Gaza, MrJimm.

    As an example, for comparison, how much freedom was there in the Ghettos of Warsaw and elsewhere?

    A captive people have no genuine freedom, they only have vulnerability.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 16:35:05View | Delete

    You would feel hate.

    Do you feel hate now, MrJimm?

    If so, who is it that you hate?

    Hamas? That is a thing, an organization …

    The members of Hamas? They are human beings … who also hate … they hate to be abused, killed, and diminished

    Everyone else in Gaza? That’s a bit much … don’t you think?

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 16:31:29View | Delete

    We are not talking about WWII; all comparisons are irrelevant, odious, and excuse.

    You refuse to answer the question of this moment, of our time, MrJimm.

    Again, why does it bother you that we don’t agree with you?

    Certainly you do not expect to change our minds?

    I suspect that you are trying to convince yourself, and you may well succeed … yet should you succeed, that success will not excuse nor erase the the shame. Any more than Krystal Nacht may be excused or ignored by the descendants of that tyranny …

    Please understand, I do not consign Israel to that fate, Israel and those who support her violence and destruction do that.

    The judgement of history, of the world, will be harsh … as it was, and deservedly so, for those who mounted an assault on the Jewish people of the world.

    That is a real tragedy … for Israel … but the larger cost is to the humanity of those who cannot stop killing and hating.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 16:18:06View | Delete

    How many human beings would you feel you needed to kill if someone, and it won’t be me, killed some of your family?

    Would you kill just anybody or would you seek to bring the killers to justice?

    Since you are choosing to make this personal, in a not too helpful way, I consider that you need to think about just how far you would go with this scenario that you have personalized.

    Let us try another tack.

    Imagine that you were in Gaza, had killed no one but members of your family have now been killed.

    Is the pain you feel any different from the pain that the bereaved Israeli feels?

    Mutual destruction results in mutual pain.

    Who will have the courage and the humanity to stop it first?

    Those doing the greater damage have a greater moral call to dare to make the first move … otherwise ALL of the killing in Gaza will be seen as “criminal” to use your word.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Jonathan Gruber Has an Honesty Problem

    2014-07-25 16:06:35View | Delete

    As a point of personal opinion, fiver, and as a front-pager at FDL, Jon CAN argue his position, however the facts and judicial opinion, which is a bit different from personal opinion, may well not support that position. One notes, in passing, that intellectual honesty seems more scarce by the day.

    Have much appreciated your considered perspectives, the substance of your comments, and your willingness to say what you determine must needs be said.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 15:53:50View | Delete

    Free the Palestinians, let them return and join a united society of human beings who respect the rights and humanity of everyone.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 15:51:54View | Delete

    I consider that to be precisely the “point”, bluedot12.

    DW

  • DWBartoo commented on the blog post Israel Kills 15 At UN School As Protests Rock West Bank

    2014-07-25 15:51:02View | Delete

    I think, bluedot,12, that you are firmly committed to whatever you believe, and do not intend to see things any other way … you might say the same of me, however we both find agreement that the killing must end.

    Let us leave it at that for the moment, and join together in urging restraint and humanity on all whose actions result in harm to others.

    Killing ennobles no one. Which I imagine that we both consider to be the human truth … as opposed to the “official truth” which is concern ed with power, with control, and with maintaining both.

    DW

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