forest

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2 years, 8 months ago
  • forest commented on the diary post Become an #OccupySupply Fund Liaison by Ryan Cook.

    2011-11-05 15:04:28View | Delete

    I’ve received my response by email. Not being a paid member, I’m a “visitor” to FDL. I only imagined the place having more meaning. I withdraw my objection.

    Cheers for the people who donated and FDL for providing the framework.

  • forest commented on the diary post Become an #OccupySupply Fund Liaison by Ryan Cook.

    2011-11-05 10:59:10View | Delete

    I write this to be transparent and open, will probably disappoint or anger some as well. I don’t support having tiered membership for this sort of thing. Can only members donate to the supply fund? ;) I can appreciate the book salons being a feature of membership but with our local occupies, having this particular [...]

  • forest commented on the blog post Obama Tied with Romney but GOP More Enthusiastic

    2011-11-04 23:04:07View | Delete

    that support OWS

    Anyone who carries the D label is going to be consumed by the D party.

    Just go ahead and accept what a D says wrt support of OWS. Any congress wo(man) with guts would declare her independence now and recognize it’s too late for words of support.

    It kinda bugs me when I hear talk that hints at or aligns OWS with the left or D party, though I know you didn’t necessarily suggest either, just this underlying weirdness I see in some posts from time to time, again not yours.

    wisdom of being in the center

    You know obama isn’t in the center, right? Here and even at OWS, I hear people say things like this. It’s just wrong though. I hope I don’t have to explain why. I catch myself slipping into previous ways of thinking from time to time, still will, I’m sure.

    Many of the TeaP despite the group having billionaire backing should be in OWS. One thing that will hold back OWS is not reaching out to our fellow average Americans on the right, not the way zero does it 1% to 1%, but as much as possible tear down the walls between left and right. I am good at that face-to-face but online here, it’s damn difficult.

  • forest commented on the blog post Obama Tied with Romney but GOP More Enthusiastic

    2011-11-04 22:34:40View | Delete

    The rightwing has succeeded in its long quest.

    The rightwing didn’t come to the dance alone.

  • forest commented on the blog post Obama Tied with Romney but GOP More Enthusiastic

    2011-11-04 22:33:24View | Delete

    Just for the sake of context,

    Are voting systems still privatized?

    Are the systems still purposefully built less secure than similar machines and software that protect the almighty dollar bill? What’s more important to our democracy, the dollar bill or our vote? Never mind.

    Do we still have a bunch of elected idiots who don’t dare speak of election fraud and flipping elections?

    How would these 1%’er freaks in both parties poll against just an average ordinary fellow American? Greece did it long ago, right? Why can’t we at least consider it, might make for an interesting poll result?

    Ok, back to the regularly scheduled poll results. And thanks JW.

  • forest commented on the blog post Buy Here Pay Here: The Subprime Auto Loan Scam

    2011-11-04 22:10:53View | Delete

    Well, I’m not surprised I wasn’t far off. On the other hand, I must be bulletproof because not a single thing you said made me think you actually understand who it is you are criticizing.

    I actually agree with you on something. My understanding was cash for clunkers took those used cars in and destroyed them, right? That’s what you are talking about? I agree, that was a scumbag move even if I understand why it was done.

    No one is arguing that people shouldn’t pay for something they purchase. That’s what is called a red herring or straw something or other.

    What I do object to is laid out in the op but since it appears we don’t speak the same worldview, I’m guessing it was all nonsense to you. One can sleep quite well imagining it’s a simple buyer seller relationship. Problem is, that’s really not what it is in anyway but a very superficial one. If you don’t know what I mean, then you can’t think for yourself. I mean that, because you should be able to objectively read the story and know that you are a predator or at the very least work for one.

    You see a simple business relationship. What I see is a vulture ripping pieces of flesh off your fellow Americans, all for the dollar. That’s ok because profiteering is now considered more and more a virtue.

    Again, you don’t work for a charity, I understand that. It isn’t the fault of your employer that the middle class is dying, you’re just scavengers trying to eek out an existence in a mighty profitable industry, $15 billion? Like I said, I hope you are getting a fair piece of that. Why should you have to wait for the lions and hyenas to get their share. Where would we be without the vultures? It’s the vultures that are performing a service picking through the tattered remnants left by the Too Big predators.

    IF we get a chance to set things right in the coming decades, hopefully there will be better opportunities for work you can actually be proud of, not just work that pays a wage and preys upon the less fortunate just because you can and it’s so damn profitable.

  • forest commented on the blog post Answers To Your Questions…Before You Ask Them!

    2011-11-04 21:48:42View | Delete

    Thanks for the tip on the video, will give it a listen.

    I’m still thinking about that question.

  • forest commented on the blog post Answers To Your Questions…Before You Ask Them!

    2011-11-04 12:01:52View | Delete

    Trumka is in obama’s pocket.

  • forest commented on the blog post Answers To Your Questions…Before You Ask Them!

    2011-11-04 11:56:12View | Delete

    We don’t need 100% agreement. That’s just an unrealistic threshold which is what I hear you saying but I am trying to reframe it. Just another example of how OWS is leading the way with GA’s and consensus building. Our threshold for consensus is more realistically placed at something like my local Occupy that has it at unless I misremember, 80%.

    It’s not that D’s don’t agree with us 100% of the time, it’s that they IGNORE the 99% nearly 100% of the time.

    The union’s responsibility exceeds that of the individual. Like Dean had a 50 state strategy where we fought everywhere, I think unions could learn something from him there. Don’t concede any battles, fight back everywhere. I realize I am talking mostly rhetoric but how we frame things has subtle influences.

  • One misunderstanding that recurs within this thread is that the AFL-CIO actually exerts control

    I can’t speak to that, whether they do or do not. I could accept “generally not the case” without much resistance.

    Maybe it’s more about the shaming?

  • forest commented on the blog post Answers To Your Questions…Before You Ask Them!

    2011-11-04 11:09:19View | Delete

    Is anyone working on getting these labor folks together with the rest of us?

    If they want to speak for the 99%, they should be willing to meet with us?

  • forest commented on the blog post Answers To Your Questions…Before You Ask Them!

    2011-11-04 11:05:41View | Delete

    It keeps repeating.

    Get these people, the environmentalists and labor in the same room and you’ll see much of labor cares for our environment and vice versa.

    We need defenses against divide and conquer. What would they look like, those defenses?

  • forest commented on the blog post Answers To Your Questions…Before You Ask Them!

    2011-11-04 10:58:28View | Delete

    Just tossing out an idea about the ads.

    I’m ok with FDL taking ads as a top-down decision, but I appreciate the argument that some question the integrity of it all.

    What is the revenue generated from the ads? If x dollars are generated by ads, would the people here be willing to replace that revenue and FDL go ad free?

    This argument about taking money from those we don’t agree with keeps coming at us. I had a discussion at my local OWS with someone who thought it was wrong to take anything from MoveOn because MoveOn was so tainted. My argument was relating another example that illustrated maybe an easier choice in the matter that made the difficulty in taking the dollars less debilitating, less cognitive dissonance causing. An example that our family is experiencing right now is my young uncle who raged against socialized medicine until he was just diagnosed a couple months ago with pancreatic cancer. Though he’s a CEO of a company doing fairly well he just found out his health care is sh-t and despite a lot of resistance, family convinced him to get help from others so it doesn’t bankrupt him. Hell, he’d be bankrupted and he still wouldn’t be able to afford life saving or extending treatment.

    Anyway, we’re going to keep coming back to this argument of whether to take something from someone we disagree and while we can say it won’t effect us and maybe it won’t or at worst in very subtle ways, it’s going to continue to cause people cognitive dissonance.

    Can the thinking people get on this and maybe we could come up with a response that had a lil more firepower?

    I’m ok with Jane and FDL taking the dollars. What would an alternative look like? If we learn from OWS, we could be more like the bottom up approach, present proposals, discuss and vote. Problem is, I don’t see immediately how that works online. Electronic voting is suspect. But maybe there’s a way we can have it both ways? We can eliminate the no-conflict but cognitive dissonance causing ads and replace it with donations? FDL could set the dollar amount needed raised to be ad-free? This would be more work, fundraising, and if we knew how much the ads helped the site, maybe all of us say it’s worth it?

    The simpler solution is just to disable the ads. Again I’m ok with FDL the way it is regarding this question.

  • vandalism/crime/violence

    What kind of vandalism/crime/violence have the Too Big banks done? What about the other financial terrorists? They should worry about the “black eye” they keep giving America.

    But we know, if you are someone on the street, you get street justice from the police but if you are of the 1% you get state dinners. apologies for any trouble, and reminders we’re just looking forward not behind.

    The movement must be without sin. That will make it an even more pleasing sacrifice to the 1%.

    At some level I am very much with you.

  • Those releases of anger or whatever need to cease. Will they?

    We are going to see more. Each Occupy developing a good immune response will reduce them but not eliminate them.

    How many eyes does the movement have? Just two? If we take a couple punches and start feeling down, it will be more difficult to maintain the strength to persevere.

    I won’t call them black eyes. I will call them growing pains or something similar.

  • Stop being afraid. That’s a good place to start.

  • Maybe police officers of good will could be encouraged to march along? I know, sounds crazy, eh?

    They could be really helpful together with their embedded and undercover fellow officers at stopping mischief.

  • Their viewers will of course identify more closely with the automobile.

  • greybeard, have you participated in OWS and GA’s? I ask because it sound like you haven’t.

    You seem to be trying to fit OWS into some kind of movement you are more familiar with and I can understand that. You can read a lot of posts here and still not quite get what it is all about unless you actually attend. Did Tea Party have general assembly? I’m curious and it seems like you have more insight.

    I’m not intending to give you a hard time, I’m asking sincere questions.

    Fwiw, I had many of the same worries I hear people express in this discussion until I actually participated.

    Over and over whatever is said, from an outside perspective looking in at OWS, practically never comes close to recognizing that this is something different and alive. There’s good coverage here on FDL, from the inside, but even that may be no substitute for actual participation to get an actual touch-feel for what it’s all about.

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