Matt, this was great, happy trails to you and Mel.

That take on the Millennial’s pragmatism is probably correct, but it might just be an outlier and not a trend, depending on how the generation that comes next, referred to as Homeland Generation, deals with technology. I believe its going to be much more utopian than the predecessors. Ray Kurzweil is the typical Boomer, and if you get a chance to see the documentary, it’s pretty narcissistic.

Yes, “the after crisis” as opposed to apocalypse. That’s a point made over and over again in The Last Myth, with the chapter entitled “The Apocalypse will Take a Little While” being an expose of how environmental issues play into the worldview:

“By allowing the challenges of the twenty-first century to be hijacked by the apocalyptic storyline, we find ourselves awaiting a moment of clarity when the problems we must confront will become apparent to all… Yet the real challenges we must face are not future events that we imagine or dismiss through apocalyptic scenarios of collapse– they are existing trends…. we can wait forever, while the world unravels before our very eyes, for an apocalypse that won’t come.”

And the flip side to this, that every election is “defining of a generation” or “the tipping point” and “the moment where the future is decided” and on and on. Hofstadter is right on with this quote, and it reminds me of a quote from the book:

The rise of apocalyptic expectation in America suggests that the true question we face may come disguised as arguments over conservation versus technological innovation, as military conflicts over foreign oil versus promises of domestic energy independence, as debates over immigration versus humanitarian goodwill, or between the creation of jobs and the preservation of the environment.

But the rise of apocalyptic expectation suggests that we face a deeper crisis, a crisis at the core of how we vie the world. Despite the political pickering, Americans on both the Left and the Right share some fundamental beliefs about the world. What if those underlying beliefs no longer correspond with reality?”

I picked up a copy of Ray Kurzweil’s book, Transcend, after watching a Netflix introspective documentary on his life and the object of his passion– living forever. He points to 2034 as the time when science is going to change the equation of bodies dying, and then a few decades later, being able to reverse aging. It’s a remarkable utopian hope. And I wonder if we are seeing an alternate mythology emerge that counters the apocalyptic era.

The youth are primed to believe it. Under the question of “what makes your generation unique?’ the Millennials respond with 24% saying Technology: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1501/millennials-new-survey-generational-personality-upbeat-open-new-ideas-technology-bound

Matt, so the point addressed with “The Last Myth” is the reality of coming up against the limits of progress, and that’s both personally and as a society.

As a society, that this notion we have, especially in America, or unlimited growth and potential, is not really sustainable. And that people get this intuitively, and trying to imagine how this ends results in being pulled toward an apocalyptic worldview. In contrast, getting beyond the last myth, means realizing that the end is going to be slow in coming and long in duration. Maybe, in fact, “a catching up” by the rest of the world is another perspective.

And personally, that we are all mortal, and “the end” is really our death, whenever it comes.

What would you add, if anything, to that take?

I want to follow this up with a question/contrast about those who suggest that progress is not ending.

Hi PW, nice to see you again. Yes, “doomsday” and “the end of the world” like “fiscal cliff” and whatever other apocalyptic filler that’s hat to sell at the moment fits the bill to distract the attention to something that’s going “to change it all” hypothetically, at least. And it really just is filler, Fox News will have “the End of the World 12/21/12″ as a 1 minute story right between the latest on Lindsay Lohan and the Fiscal Cliff, before going to commercial break.

Regarding 12/21/12, that was part of the original reason I wanted to have Matt do a book salon here. I’d been reading about crop circles that when deciphered, point to 12/21/12, and thought it’d be good if we talked about the end of the world ahead of it happening. And here’s a good quote from The Last Myth about it:

“Terrence McKenna has written, “It was our time tat fascinated the Maya. It was toward our time that they cast their esoteric gaze.” … the Mayan doomsday industry has revealed more about our own historical narcissism (that great cultural contribution of the Boomer generation) than it has about the believes of the ancient Mayans. It must be point out –must it be pointed out?– that the Mayans weren’t, in fact, obsessed with us. Nor is there any evidence that the end of the thirteenth baktun in the Mayan Long Count calendar– the day that many have correlated (though perhaps incorrectly) with December 21, 2012– held any more significance to the ancient Mayans than the beginning of the first baktun.”

I had no idea what to expect when reading this book. It didn’t sound very political at all. Yet, I was really engaged with the reading of it, as it’s very well presented, moving from reflections on current societal issues, to their historical roots, and then a worldview analysis. All about why it is that so many people think the world is going to end anytime soon prior to when the sun extinguishes in 4 or 5 billion years.

Let me break this down into a question. How dod you and Mel come to focus on writing a book about apocalyptic thinking? What sort of original impetus got you two going on the idea back in 2005?

Hi Matt, thanks for coming on here, I just want to let the folks know that we go a ways back…. about 10 years on the internet. He joined me as the first co-blogger on MyDD back in 2002, with a focus on the emerging Howard Dean campaign. Soon after, Matt was the guy who was famously hired on the spot, driving across from his home in Utah to the campaign HQ’s in Vermont, and telling Joe Trippi, “I blog on MyDD” in early 2003.
Good times!

No offense meant Joe with the hacking slam on wonks :)

Where do you think the populists ultimately succeeded, and where also they fell short?

I think it’s pointless trying to argue the premise, like the typical wonk liberal response. Instead it’s a good opening to leap frog their talk of social spending as ballooning, and talk of the spending problem being increased military,, police and pentagon-spending as ballooning, whereas military, police and pentagon-related expenditures, deficit bailouts/spending (money going to banks and lenders), and corporate welfare and handouts are what a progressive would point to foremost with the spending and priorities problerelated expenditures, deficit bailouts/spending (money going to banks and lenders), and corporate welfare and handouts foremost the problem. Not the reason, but the solution of what we need to cut.

Am in NYC this weekend seeing that Charlie Rangel goe down, and stopped by Zuccotti, yes, still meeting. About 3-4 groups of 6-12 each, airing it out. I rec the compilation book, Occupy: Scenes from Occupied America. I think the narrative around 99% is a good start, but the most potential happened and left too quickly– that of taking money out of the banks and moving it to credit unions. Occupy The Boardroom was one of the early organizers of it.

What are you’re thoughts on the debt Joe, in regards to the framing of it by both sides, and what they are not saying– ie, how will it be resolved?

Hi there, good to see you again. Or confront their exposed weaknesses. McCain-Fiengold in 2002 passing to get Bush’s signature was a good example of timing and strategy, right during the Enron fiasco–God, that seems like such small fries compared with the looting going on lately.

Have you followed the Just Say Yes movement for decriminalization efforts around pot, that FDL has been behind over the last couple of political cycles, and how do you see this sort of issue reform that goes on nationally in the netroots working with your ideas about reform? I think they’ve been very successful with generating a discussion that isn’t rooted within the partisan divide.

Joe, have you seen anything over the last year or so that has inspired you with representing a new narrative than the current impasse?

occurs to me Joe, that you might actually be an advocate of what I recommend as an alternative above (“Personally, I think ignoring it, and moving onto one’s own life and community focus, is just fine”), but that you might reply, that’s not ignoring it, but ‘a way to create processes and associations outside of the established system, and then confront it.’ Correct? 

Really Ray, did they mandate that everyone become a sailor too?