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  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 15:42:05View | Delete

    Still don’t understand the DKos thing, but you guys seem very committed to it, so I’ll go along. I, apparently, heart the Daily Kos and that is where I belong, because the slightest dissent on tactics makes people at FDL very very cranky!!!! I am sorry I didn’t realize it sooner. I thought this was a liberal site to discuss ways to achieve progressive goals. I was obviously wrong. Clearly this is just a site to talk a lot of shit about Obama. So sorry for the mistake. It must be all that crack an earlier commenter accused me of smoking. By the way, for all your Obama bashing needs, the National Review is that way.

    Ok – real response. If you care, which I doubt.

    The problem with vetoing every bill was that there was important stuff there like unemployment and food stamp extensions. Maybe those getting vetoed was worth it to you to make a political point, but I don’t think it would have been worth it for the people who depend on it.

    Also also, the Bush tax cut extensions are not even an example of what I was talking about, because even Nancy couldn’t get enough votes in the house. I was responding to the idea that Obama had a “supermajority” in the senate his first two years and could have passed whatever he wanted. I pointed out that, yeah, they were Dems, but they were not inclined to vote for progressive legislation.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 15:29:13View | Delete

    The very fact that you claim that Big Dog Bill was less cynical than Obama shows that you are full of completely irrational hatred. Bill was the most cynical triangulator I have ever seen – and I say this as someone who pretty much worships him. However, he did nothing specifically for the working class (after his first budget) and, as I said in response to another comment, welfare “reform” pretty much just screwed low income single mothers.

    I also love that you are apparently more concerned with elections than governing. How dare that Obama work with the Repub’s and compromise and crap? Doesn’t he know that their craziness would have been a great election issue?

    I have enjoyed arguing here and I think that I have basically the same policy goals as all of you, but you have to be the most mean spirited, disgruntled, and unrealistic people I have ever met…on the internet. Try living outside FDL for a minute or two and maybe things won’t seem so glum!

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 14:58:37View | Delete

    Points all taken on the FDR and Truman stuff. As I said above, I did not think they were necessarily wrong, just that such decisions could (and were at the time) be criticized as “illiberal.” I am guessing that future liberals will judge Obama far more kindly than you do now. However, that is to be seen and we cannot possible know.

    I honestly don’t think we have any disagreement at all about where the country should be going. I just think you seem to have a much greater faith in the populace to suffer economically or otherwise and then think, “I should vote for a real liberal!” I just don’t see that happening. Look at 2010. All the polls showed that people still hated Repub’s and didn’t even trust them to fix the economy. They just wanted a change.

    I am from a very red part of California and every unemployed person there I know blames Obama for their plight because of how he “raised taxes.” Both of us know he didn’t do that, even though we probably wish he had. However, these people, some of whom even voted for him, are not alone in this country. What I have asked on this site over and over and over and what no one has told me yet is just how you guys think you are going to get someone more liberal than Obama elected? You aren’t. What we have is someone who will sign progressive legislation if it is passed. What we need is a congress who will pass it. It is much easier to elect progressives on the local and even state level than it is on the presidential. I do not think Obama is perfect, but your own admission about Iraq shows that he is miles ahead of Bush and those few miles are pretty much the only range we have to work with in electing a POTUS.

    Also, with the pervasive negativity that exists here, I can understand why people would be turned off. I just started posting here today because the article kind of annoyed me and I was in the mood to argue back at it. And so far I have been called – “clueless dumbshit,” a DKos flunky (on multiple occasions), and been told to “put the crack pipe down.” I just wonder how people who react that negatively to criticism from people who agree with them plan to win over the rest of the country.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 12:18:16View | Delete

    I don’t really understand what you are so mad about since we obviously share similar ideas and I didn’t insult you and I definitely don’t understand the DKos things, because last I heard they were only slightly less angry at Obama than you are. I guess this is futile, since you are all just calling me names, but I will try one more time to reiterate my point. This time it is about social security. Yes, Obama definitely knows that any issues with SS could be solved by raising the payroll cap. And yes, I believe that if a bill that did so were passed, he would sign it (I get that we differ here). However, here is where we are really at odds. I want 1.) a congress who would pass a law lifting the payroll cap and 2.) a president who would sign it. I believe I have number 2. That is why I am focused on keeping him and getting number 1. Also – here is the rub, neither Obama or the Repub’s are actually going to cut SS benefits. It would hurt them both too much. They might talk about it to sound tough, but it is not happening.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 12:02:18View | Delete

    I wish I had that much power! Although, I do like having all my fingers! And being female! But, I have never given anyone a fish while naked or whatever it was he was supposed to have done!

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 11:57:41View | Delete

    I agree with you about FDR. I agree with you that we need some combination of raising taxes and cutting defense spending to balance the budget. Where we disagree is that you seem think that Obama has the same power over congress that FDR did and/or that we should stop electing Democrats and then they will realize that we are really serious and do what we want. I just don’t think that either of things are true or would work. Obama has faced unprecedented levels of obstruction from congress for his mildly left-centrist agenda. What makes you think an actually progressive president could get a damn thing passed? As for the second, I only have to say that at least under the current, bumbling Democratic regime I have a pretty good feeling that things like my right to choose are not going to be taken away. However, get someone like Bachmann in there and we will be wishing for GW.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 11:28:30View | Delete

    I didn’t forget. And I didn’t say that we should just get Democrats elected to congress. In Obama’s first two years legislation failed primarily because of people like Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, and Joe Lieberman. If you have people in your own party who are determined to vote against you, I don’t know what you do, except for the rest of us out there to not vote for them.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 10:57:41View | Delete

    Dude – he has the ring. Try again.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 10:56:53View | Delete

    Well, I think we just have fundamentally views or something, because we see the same thing and attach very different levels of importance to it. You said that you saw “real” liberal presidents in FDR and Truman. I pointed out huge flaws of theirs that affected millions of people. You said you were not looking for “perfect.” I think dropping a nuclear bomb is for more morally questionable than anything Obama has done. And certainly, interning citizens for their race is incredibly illiberal. I know why they did it. I don’t even necessarily think they were wrong, but it does call into question their credentials as “real” liberals.

    Then, you once again start in on your rant about how Obama doesn’t even have “liberal tendencies.” I disagree with that belief. Actually, I think that belief is complete bullshit if one takes a second to look at the man, his votes and his career. I understand that you have reached a different conclusion, but even if you are right, how do you expect to get someone better elected in the country as it is. I guess from your message that you plan on voting for the most right wing nut you can find and hope that they will burn the country down and then finally, finally, the stupid masses will see what you have been seeing and vote the way you want them to. This won’t work and it will hurt tens of millions of people in the process. You care more about being morally or politically pure than anything else. “Shitty” isn’t good enough for you anymore? Well, if shitty saved your food stamps last year (remember that hostage taking where Obama and the Dems were going to lose? But, oh yeah, didn’t) than I am guessing that shitty is plenty good enough.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 10:14:17View | Delete

    You mean the commission of which no recommendations were turned into bills, let alone laws? Do I think Obama has been dumb on SS by so much as entertaining the glimmer of a thought of a cut? Yes. Do I think corporations run our government and are basically evil? Yes. The fact is, as everyone here knows, that SS is fine and any long term deficit could be eliminated instantly by raising the payroll cap. However, as long as we have one house of congress who will en masse vote against even the most benign of tax increases that is not going to happen.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 09:53:16View | Delete

    I guess we don’t see it the same way. I don’t trust a thinly sourced story in the Times to tell me that Obama is dismantling SS. Further, while I perhaps didn’t say it to you, my feelings are that the problem is in congress and that is where we can make more difference. People like Nancy Pelosi are the ones who get things actually done, because congress is where it happens. I also didn’t mean to suggest that I see Obama as a place holder. I see him as the best we can get in a country not inclined to vote our way. A perfect world would be one where people would vote their interest and we could get a real progressive as president. I agree with you, that is not where we live.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 09:33:50View | Delete

    I actually think he would. However, more importantly, why do you think he wouldn’t and if you have just given up so completely, why are you here? Does it satisfy something within you to just complain and be hopeless? I think we should take what we can get now and keep asking for more. And also, we should fight against those that have the opposite goals that we do and who are actively acting against those goals.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 08:28:07View | Delete

    Yeah, Clinton stood up to the Republicans on his first budget and that is it. Truman dropped nuclear bombs and annihilated more people than Obama ever thought about. FDR interned the Japanese and had a mixed record on civil rights. I am sure that had there been the internet at that time and you were alive, you would be on there bitching about them too. I am not saying that Obama is as liberal as them, but I just want to understand who you guys think we could actually get as president who would accomplish more of what we want than Obama has. I get all the Overton Window stuff, but I just do not see the possibility of electing someone more liberal. So, I say, take what we can get.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 08:13:55View | Delete

    Not exactly sure what prompted your hostile response, especially since I said I was only talking about domestic issues. But, sure, I’ll admit that the U.S. has killed a lot of brown people in far away countries under Obama – and every other president that we have had for the last fifty years, with the hearty support of our fellow citizens. So, I guess what I don’t understand, clueless dumbshit that I am, is how you think that things are going to get better unless we work on the people we know and on getting a better congress. I am of the belief that Obama is less bad than McCain would have been and we should use all our energy to convince people to vote for better congresspeople and then maybe we can make some progress on our goals. But, I guess you know something I don’t about how if we just bitch enough, Obama can make magic happen. And here I am the one being accused of believing in him too much.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 07:54:27View | Delete

    Yeah – I went Green in my early twenties and I even live in California, so they have almost even been elected to office here. However, I got tired of living on ideals and wanted to make progress, however incremental. The world is not how I wish it was.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 07:50:38View | Delete

    Agreed about the ruling elite. We are the little people and the big people don’t care or are actively trying to make us further subservient to them. I am not actually trying to argue that Obama is a liberal savior or something. I just don’t think that it is his actual goal to dismantle said programs and I don’t believe that he would suggest it. That is why I think he is better than a president who would do so. He might sit idly by and let bad stuff happen, but I would prefer that to a president who openly advocates for hurting those with less. And given the voting public, those are our only two realistic options. We might wish for something better. Actually, call me an Obot, but if he had free reign I think Obama would enact better policies. However, we have to deal with the country and the congress that we have and Obama cannot actually pass his own laws.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 07:30:07View | Delete

    Nope. I just got annoyed. All on my own. I didn’t even know they were Obots at the Daily Kos. I thought they were more in your neck of the woods.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 07:24:56View | Delete

    I don’t actually ever go there. But, I guess I am just failing to see how we are going to get what we want (and I do think we probably share most of the same policy goals) by losing elections. What I talked about earlier, DADT etc., may be small potatoes, but it done and that is how progress is made. It is not going to be fast, easy, or pretty. And we are probably not going to get a president who fights for everything we want. Such a person could not get elected. Thankfully, the president does not get to decide what laws get passed. Stop pissing on Obama and start working on congress. If they pass a progressive law, I bet you $1,000 he will sign it.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 07:18:29View | Delete

    Read American Dream by Jason DeParle. It’s a book though, not an article. It is amazing and describes the real impacts that reform had. It is one of those things that is beautiful and heartbreaking all at once. Thanks for actually being interested! The other evidence I have is mostly just anecdotal and through work, but it is just really hard for women to get assistance these days and, personally, I don’t know if my only goal for a woman with three or four young kids is to get her working. Eventually, yes, that should be a goal, but I think that there could be value in her staying at home with them as well(and that is a value I would be willing to pay for via taxes) and welfare reform does not even offer that as an option.

  • Jululu commented on the blog post Worst President Ever, Revisited

    2011-07-09 06:45:37View | Delete


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