• Brilliant analogy.

    Because just like the Ukraine Israel has endured a neighboring power sponsoring an armed insurrection by separatists within its borders while also invading and annexing part of its territory.

    Wait a minute – that doesn’t sound right at all.

    Are you sure you have any clue at all what you’re talking about?

  • Better link?

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

    Read this article and tell me if it bears any resemblance to Orlov’s fantasy (I’ve emphasized the most egregious parts):

    Similarly, the German invasion during World War II was at first able to make rapid advances, taking a lot of territory, while the Russians equally swiftly retreated and evacuated their populations, relocating entire factories and other institutions to Siberia and resettling families in the interior of the country. Then the German advance stopped, reversed, and eventually turned into a rout. The standard pattern repeated itself, with the Russian army breaking the invader’s will while most of the locals that found themselves under occupation withheld cooperation, organized as partisans and inflicted maximum possible damage on the retreating invader.

    It’s a long article so I’ll mention the most salient points: first, the Red Army did not in fact conduct a strategic retreat into the interior when the Wehrmacht invaded. The Red Army tried to stop the Germans close to the border – and got cut to pieces. As the article points out the USSR suffered a staggering four million casualties in the first 6 months of the invasion (June to December 1941) which is hardly consistent with a strategic withdrawal. The Germans did make rapid advances, coming within sight of the gates of Moscow in December, but they were able to do this because repeatedly outmaneuvered, encircled and destroyed huge numbers of Soviet forces, not because the wily Ruskies retreated into the interior and refused to give battle.

    Not to belabour the point, but these are details that could be confirmed by consulting ANY of the standard works on the history of the Second World War, if anyone was intellectually curious enough to do so.

    Also, the Werhmacht was never “routed” and did not have its will broken – it fought the Soviets for every mile between Moscow and Berlin, which is largely why Soviet casualties topped 20 million, and German resistance didn’t end until the Red Army was in heart of Berlin. This is admittedly a minor point but it speaks to Orlov’s rabid Russian nationalism, as does the fact he always refers to the “Russian army” rather than the Soviet or Red Army. For Orlov the victory over Nazi Germany properly belongs only to the Russian people, not to other Soviet nationalities like the Balts, the Georgians, the Uzbeks or (yes) the Ukrainians -the 2nd largest nationality in the USSR, millions of whom gave their lives fighting the Germans.

    Orlov’s excuse is that he can’t escape the weight of his heritage, but that excuse is hardly available to the masses of Western lemmings who mindlessly imbibe Russian propaganda and then endlessly repeat it within a moment of critical reflection.

  • Yes. You bailed me out again.

    Everyone read gigi3′s link in total. Here’s a taste.

    With all due respect eCAHNomics a good way to start shoring up your history education would be to stop rotting your brain with the likes of Club Orlov. And stop encouraging others to follow your example.

    Just sayin’.

  • ok… I have not been following this… but the original Nazi’s weren’t to keen on communists or Slavs.

    You forgot to mention Ukrainians are Slavs.

    So yeah, “Ukrainian neo-Nazi” makes about as much sense than “Jewish neo-Nazi”.

    That’s a level of historical analysis that is just a bit too subtle for many contributors to follow though.

  • Do you know that the Soviet Union invaded Nazi Germany in WWII?

    Anybody who knows anything about World War II knows that. The Red Army even occupied Berlin.

    Then there are the people who don’t know anything about the history of World War II, but that doesn’t stop them from talking. Cause everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how ill informed.

  • Hope the western Ukrainians are happy with their choice to go with EU (that’s the F* the EU version)/NATO.

    Clearly the Ukraine would be better off in a Russian-dominated federation.

    Those thick headed Uke yokels obviously don’t know how good they had it during the previous three hundred years of Russian imperial domination.

    No fear though, FDL’s crack corps of Ukrainian scholars will be happy to tell them all about it.

  • …and yet we’ve established that Hollande didn’t say France would drop sanctions against Russia and that Pluto’s claim in this regard was a fabrication.

    Just like I said it was.

  • Hollande said he was going to drop sanctions against Russia? Really? Let’s see what the Paper of Record you linked to yourself said: Western nations should stop threatening Russia with new sanctions and instead offer to ease off on existing restrictions in exchange for progress in the peace process in Ukraine, President François Hollande of France [...]

  • The headline reads: “Francois Hollande to Drop Russian Sanctions”. I notice there is no link – probably because Hollande never said that, it is a fabrication on your part. I’m not going to rehash the whole history of the Ukrainian crisis, but I will point out that the claim that Putin never wanted to annex [...]

  • People with any knowledge of Ukrainian history would know that there were Nazi sympathizers in Ukraine who fought the Soviets, they still hold marches to celebrate their fights in full Nazi regalia.

    For some it’s a perfect fit that aligns well with their family and country’s history.

    Since you apparently know Ukrainian history and I don’t could you please explain this “perfect fit” to me? What were Ukrainians who joined the Waffen SS in World War II fighting for and what was the nature of their collaboration with Nazi Germany? I flatter myself that my grasp of history is far from negligible, but I’m always willing to learn. So let’s leave the lame news article links where they properly belong, with the historical illiterati, and move on to some substantive historical analysis.

  • who exactly is the “they” here? How about providing a source, like a credible Western journalist siting down with the Ukrainian neo-Nazis and listening to them hold forth on how much they love Hitler and curse their unworthy Slavic Untermenschen blood which only renders them fit to perform slave labour for their Aryan overlords?

    People with more than two live brain cells to rub together should realize that “Nazi” and “Ukrainian” isn’t an obvious fit.

  • So your evidence for Ukrainian evilness is a pro-Russian website that is publishing uncorroborated and unsourced allegations of atrocities?

    I bet you don’t even realize you’re making my case for me.

  • Dunno, you tell me.

    In either case it has nothing to do with Nazism however.

  • Russian propagandists like Saker have been equating Ukrainian nationalism with Nazism since the crisis began, and this blatantly opportunistic vote is an attempt by Russia to force countries into tacitly endorsing that identification or appearing to be apologists for Nazism.

    The significance of the vote should be evaluated in light of the political agenda that underlies it.

  • lexington50 commented on the blog post Late Night: Why Not Let Them Go?

    2014-10-28 02:33:34View | Delete

    I’ve never heard of Gary Brecher – but I like him already.

  • lexington50 commented on the diary post MENA Mashup: Kobane, ISIS, and our MIC by CTuttle.

    2014-10-11 22:55:53View | Delete

    The Arabization of Rojava, Kurdistan of Syria is on a grand scale

    Is it just me, or is the narrative on ISIS already turning into a repeat of the Ukrainian crisis, which treated us to the spectacle of Russian nationalist bloggers convincing many shamefully ill informed Westerners of 3 impossible things before breakfast. It seems the [...]

  • Erdogan in Turkey is a conservative Islamist and a traditional nationalist. As a result, short of being forced, he won’t do anything to help Syrian or Iraqi Kurds, and while ISIS is too extreme even for him.

    Perhaps more Islamist then nationalist, certainly for the liking of the guardians of Ataturk’s legacy. That does not imply he is necessarily sympathetic to ISIS – contrary to how it is typically portrayed in the West Islamism isn’t a monolithic belief system to which all observant Muslims mindlessly defer.

    That having been said Erdogan has to practical reasons for not embracing the Kurdish cause: first, Turkish nationalism has long regarded Kurdish nationalism (however improbably) as potentially an existential thread to the country’s integrity; and second, overtly supporting the Kurds against ISIS would alienate many of his own supporters and potentially fan the flames of sectarian violence within Turkey.

  • The “no go” suggestion wasn’t from other visiting Americans, though. Heard nothing about it before or since.

    I get that, but I mention it because it’s a popular theme in the right wing echo chamber.

    There are any number of reasons people might have felt impelled to give you that advice, including (a) being (I assume) American, they might have felt this was an issue to which you were sensitive, or (b) (more likely) they were projecting their own insecurities on you. Or both. As I said, Europe’s ambivalence to its immigrant populations is a major source of tension and one which is seriously testing its capacity for political accommodation.

  • I haven’t been in Europe since 1998, but recall from then. In Munich there was a substantial Turkish “neighborhood” which was really a ghetto. A cheap labor pool no doubt.

    My hotel near the main train station advised not going through there on foot. Desk agent pointed on a map, as in “you are *here.* ” Then, pointing out the door and left, “it’s thataway.”

    Many European cities have quarters populated by people from abroad, whether from Turkey, North Africa, or further afield. Many are now 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who were born in Europe. Their presence is seriously straining the social fabric in many countries, as witnessed by the rise of parties typically described as “right wing” and “anti immigration” in the media.

    These quarters are routinely described as “no go” zones by the American right and held forth as an example how bleeding heart European liberalism has let the Islamist fox into the chicken coop. This instinctively resonates with Americans who are all too familiar with the reality of racial segregation and urban violence in American cities. As your own experience indicates this is generally a bad analogy however. I’ve been in many of these quarters at all hours of the day and night in both large and small cities and never felt threatened. After dark the locals can be cagey about outsiders but I’ve never experienced any overt hostility, which would offend Muslim sensibilities regarding goodwill and hospitality.

    Of course if there is a riot in progress, as has happened in rare instances in the past, it’s better to steer clear ;)

  • A critical fact absent from Wright’s post is that many Turks demonstrated in support of ISIS, often leading to clashes with pro Kurdish protesters. It should be remembered that Recep Erdogan’s ruling Justice and Development Party is at least latently Islamicist (the party officially rejects that label because since the founding the modern Turkish republic the elite has been extremely hostile to mixing Islam and politics, with the army repeatedly overthrowing governments it deemed insufficiently secular). In Istanbul the headquarters of the pro Kurdish Democratic Peoples’ Party was attacked, while Kurdish supporters set fire to a building housing the ultranationalist National Movement party.

    Point is, Turkish society is not of one mind about ISIS, but predictably the MSM can’t cope with complexity so rather than examine the issue from the perspective of different segments of Turkish society they’ve decided to only report on the Kurdish one, who are less than 10% of the population but whose cause dovetails nicely with the agenda of Western interventionists.

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