I’m delighted that some people are asking about her foreign-policy views. Post-election, should she and Obama somehow both win, we don’t need another supposedly liberal Hillary Clinton pimping for the president to start another and worse, clusterfuck.

“She is fearless in taking on Wall Street…”

What she needed to be was fearless in taking on Obama, when, for a year, he used her as a liberal dog-yummy to try to keep progressives on the reservation…and then shitcanned her.

If, at some point in that grotesque little charade, she’d held a presser and said something like:

“Mr. President, enough is enough. Give me an up-or-down vote, or you can get yourself another sock puppet.”

Instead, she held still for it, which utterly gives the lie to the nonsense about her eagerness to take on the power elite…which Barack Obama is, unspinnably, one of.

Good work, Norman.

since she was a republican until she was 46, if anyone can get her to answer the question of whether she voted for Reagan, please let us know. :o)

If the GOP can just work out the tech on the damn servo-mechanisms, as Judy Tenuda says:

“Hey! It could happen.” :o)

I swear, they’re going to keep at it until they put this clueless, dingbat of a second-rate actor on Rushmore, and the way things are going with Obama and the democrats, they’ll help them do it…..

followed by Shemp, Larry, and Moe.

I think Obama’s “evolution” has only had a huge impact on voters/democrats who are stupid enough to buy the bullshit about his statement being an act of forthright courage.

For anyone with two synapses to rub together, they will remember that it took him 3 and a half years, and he only did it because Joe Biden effectively shamed him into doing it and because a Gay and progressive load of shit was starting to land on his head…and, as always, for those among us who are into reality, he put in that little “states rights” disclaimer, if that was courage, then Yahweh save us from political cowardice.

Yes, ‘Basil; everything’s geared to protecting the corporate status quo. And, because of a few places like The Lake, where some of the threaders are right on top of the bullshit that’s being peddled to that end, more people are talking about it and NOT giving Obama a free ride because he’s “not as bad as the republicans”…and even that can be argued, about some important things.

“beyond that, she would have been another Thatcher.”

I think you nailed it.

No, I don’t expect democracy, but I freely admit that I’d like to see Obama pay a political price for the sellout, as in:

you can’t run as a progressive, win big, and then get re-elected after 4 years of country-club republican policies.

When Pelosi killed the move by some House democrats to force a vote on stripping the Healthcare robber barons of their exemption from the anti-trust laws, she showed her true colors and ran up the corporate pirate flag, my 2c.

And, she sure as hell didn’t do it on her own hook. That had to be part of the deal that Obama cut with those shitbirds.

Agree on Hillary. Not only did Obama do rehab on the republicans, but he also did it for Hillary, after she ran a campaign against him that mostly consisted of sucking up to the american right, and trying to avoid eating her vote to enable the clusterfuck in Iraq, until she saw it ruining her chance at the nomination.

When she lost, she was $30 million in debt; no committee chairmanship, and even NOW had turned their backs on her. He really owed her nothing, but picking her for State was a sop to her rabid supporters. At that time Obama hadn’t sold us out (should Hillary get credit for doing it, up-front?) and when her “PUMAS” were all frothing at the mouth, I was sure enough that he could beat McCain going away, that I was perfectly willing to tell them to go shit in their hats, and let Obama and the democrats take our chances with the rest of the electorate.

I don’t know if she’ll run in 4 years or not. I hope not, since the republicans AND the independents would get out of their death beds to vote against her. And, after the campaign she ran leading up to 2008, no small number of democrats wouldn’t give her the time of day.

I still think that the political landscape 5-6 months from now is going to look a lot different than it does now, and not to Obama’s advantage. There could be some shocking events, such as all of the saber-rattling at Iran coming to a head and going critical, on the momentum for that that’s already been generated, and/or the economy taking a turn for the worse that no amount of spin can fluff up. If something like that happens, all bets are off. We could have a real democratic convention instead of the rubber stamp that everyone’s taking for granted.

‘Bus, “evolving” 24 hours after Gays and progressives got the living shit kicked out of them, with a shitstorm brewing, and AFTER Joe Biden soonered him, does not constitute “leadership”…

IF that’s what you were saying.

Doing it hree years ago, with periodic reminders of the discrimination, hatred, and outright violence that Gay people have endured? That would have been leadership. Or, just standing up for equality, a couple of weeks before the vote, you could make a case for his taking a bit of risk, to do the right thing.

As it shook out, by me, he gets zero credit for speaking out, at the same time he said that the states have a right to block equal rights.

I do not see how people can talk about this and call it “courage”. He was politically bitch-slapped into doing it.

Yep, you nailed it, more campaign bullshit. But I doubt that even this, will go anywhere.

The fact is, that right now, the republicans won’t even let vanilla-pudding “reform” like this pass. They’ve got him by the shorthair, and he’s never shown any indication that it bothers him.

I didn’t say that “getting it done” meant anything. But even the charade won’t happen unless Obama gets in the pulpit…..and now, just talking means very little.

“…they both suck…”

Now, dangit, Kafka, we’re trying to avoid saying that. It kind of depresses enthusiasm, as well as contributions.

:o)

I have been weighing all of the “bars” and “goods”, and since Obama has protected the corporate status-quo so well, I won’t mind it being dumped back into the laps of the republicans. Their policies will only make things worse, and evidently we need that to have any chance of getting someone in office who will really rock the boat and go for the changes that we need.

The alternative is another four years of this shitty stasis, with it’s creeping-fascism, and then the full blame to fall on the democrats in four years. In fact, if I were a republican, I would not be at all troubled by the prospect of another four years of a “liberal” democrat who has done miraculous rehab on the republicans and who has protected so much of their agenda.

Obama has to ride the economy pony, but I keep thinking that the bushCo foreign policy chickens that he’s been feeding so diligently, are going to be landing on the roof of the White House. Just as with Bush, he’ll try to string that out as long as he can, so that it won’t have much effect on this election. We’ll see.

According to this, Romney’s opened up a 6 point lead in Florida:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/poll-romney-now-leads-obama-florida-125757880.html

At this stage of things, and given the economic status-quo that we’ve got, I think that’s significant. As I said, if it gets into double digits, then Obama is going to have trouble reversing it, and it may mean that his lucrative think tank/highly-paid speaking tour will begin shortly after the election.

“…I think there’s a significant possibility of getting this bill done.”

Not unless Barack Obama gets behind it, 110%…let’s watch, shall we?

‘Thunder; no argument on anything there.

There IS the ongoing debate about whether it was a conspiracy from the start, or just Obama’s cowardice and a really foolish presumption that in return for his “bipartisan” caving, the republicans would help him with some vestige of a salvage operation. That was never going to happen.

I think he was more of a corporatist than most of us thought, and he’s also been a political coward of the first order. And, as you say, I don’t see that changing, even if he wanted it to.

“Business people as masters of the universe…”

and “It’s worth having a corrective to this.”

The voters of america damn sure did our part, when we helped Obama double John McCain’s electoral vote and handed the democrats big margins in both houses of congress. That was the corrective. We just didn’t expect that Obama would stash it in the cupboard while it rotted away.

Which stashing raises the question:

What would be different if he wins in November…with, it’s a certainty, far less clout and less enthusiasm from the voters?” As little as he’s accomplished with the near-landslide that he came in with, why expect anything else this time around, given that the GOP will almost certainly keep the House, if not take the Senate?