whimperbang

Last active
2 years, 11 months ago
  • whimperbang commented on the diary post What to Replace the Imprison-Americans Bill With by David Swanson.

    2011-12-04 05:25:32View | Delete

    You’re talking about undoing generations of propaganda in support of the current status quo. The general mass of people in this country are accustomed to the idea of endless war and generally believe that we have many enemies around us. Add to that, the insecurity generated by post-Fordian capitalism, people have little time or motivation [...]

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 14:42:00View | Delete

    I’m sure it was a great time. I don’t doubt that. But you lost, and you think you won. And you have been led to think that you have won, when you have really lost. And now instead of taking responsibility for your failure, now it is people like me who serve the interests of the hard right. But it is framed in a way to talk about my lack of maturity (a specious argument at best) rather than actually talking about what was accomplished, especially politically. I’m not blaming the 60s, as much as questioning how important the 60s really were. Definitely less important than the 30s, the 40s, and the 50s in the development of things like the welfare state and the national security state.

    I think what is Orwellian about the 60s is what is considered the acceptable narrative of what a great time in history it was, all the while a war killed millions of Vietnamese and 10s of 1000s of GIs. Like every other of history, it was a bloodletting.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 14:32:28View | Delete

    I didn’t get braces, and my mother worked a line in a non-union TV factory before becoming a medical records/ admitting clerk. I was a bit hyperbolic with that statement, but in some ways it is true. It is especially true in light of the sacrifices occurring in a place like Syria, and it is disheartening to see there is no organized help coming from the emasculated Left in this country.

    It must be nice to have that middle class option. I don’t and many people I know don’t. One reason I don’t post on the Internets is because I have to work a shit job in a shit state to pay my bills and revel in my iconoclasm. Today, I had nothing to do, so here I am, shitting up a thread.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 14:24:53View | Delete

    I’m not a boomer either. I belong to that middle child of a generation.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 14:04:18View | Delete

    I’m not a Millenial. I am older than the children. They are still growing. I put down my roots to draw up stories from the past for them and I spread my canopy to protect them harsh light of reality, until it is time for me to wither and become food for their thoughts.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 13:59:14View | Delete

    Your right, its classicism, not just racism, implied by your post. The idea of a counter-revolution, when there was no revolution, smacks of this.

    The point is that there were real revolutionary ideas being fomented, ideas that have been historically disparaged, because the idea that one can take back the original power of the state, violence, and use it to defend their autonomy and the autonomy of their community, is something seen as crazy and out of the norm in the mainstream. At some point, the overwhelming majority of leftists gave up fighting, because they didn’t want to die, understandably. They had that as an option. Many African-Americans didn’t and still don’t. As well as many of the poor.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 13:45:02View | Delete

    Why Don’t We Do It In The Road

    I wasn’t the first to say it. I’m all for doing it in the road. There’s nothing wrong with that. But there are whole other dimensions to “doing it in the road.” Alas, subtext died on the streets of Chicago too.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 13:14:06View | Delete

    When did I say it wasn’t my responsibility or anyone else? It is everyone’s responsibility, and everyone’s hypocrisy. I am cognizant of my participation in a system that is designed to exploit human beings, animals, and the planet at almost every node of interaction.

    For every Ben and Jerry’s, there are 10s of 1000s of companies and organizations using exploitation either directly or indirectly. Go to Chili’s and participate in abuse. Basically, consume anything produced by a factory and participate in abuse. We are all complicit and that is how the global capitalist order draws its strength.

    I think the point of your argument is now that the 30 year olds are in charge. But the average age for a Congress person is 55 and for Senators its 60. If I recall, one can’t even run for Congress until they are 30 years old. But assigning a specific age of responsibility is a pointless sideshow to the real problems. And that is everyone’s complicity in an abusive system.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:55:29View | Delete

    Has the class war ever stopped? Isn’t it a feature of capitalism?

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:47:38View | Delete

    The paris commune wasn’t a commune in the sense of your era. But thanks for taking the time to actually broach the veil of ignorance that surrounds your memories and feelings and to seek some understanding and common ground. You are the one who said

    That experience/feeling of oneness was never duplicated again by no generation None!

    You guys may think you have invented the WWW but you sure don’t like to use it. I gave you evidence to the contrary (of course, there wasn’t amplified rock music during the Paris Commune, so maybe, in some technical sense you are correct, but of the idea you were trying to communicate, not so much).

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:41:09View | Delete

    Exactly, that has been my entire point with this.

    How we must treat the American 60s as the only time ever in the history of humanity that the apogee of existence, thought, and feeling was reached.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:37:02View | Delete

    I represent the sans-coulettes and hedge fund traders. I contain multitudes.

    Why must I be representative of anything?

    Who did the Athenian gadfly represent? or the Nazarene?

    I question authority, including authority that masquerades as received wisdom. Especially that authority, as it seems innocuous when it is in toto highly coercive.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:29:41View | Delete

    Check this out

    The Paris Commune

    You weren’t first and only generation to equality, liberty, and fraternity.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:25:22View | Delete

    The irony has been lost upon you. Yes, technically the Black Panthers are baby boomers, but see, they’re African-American, therefore really not part of the same thing as white boomers, which while not specified, is obviously what the original post implies in boomer victories.

    You see, the Black Panthers understood that. They understood that they were segregated and powerless, even in “liberal” enclaves. That’s why they followed cops in CA around with guns (until open carry was outlawed). They understood the power structure viscerally, because they were abused by it daily.

    For all the white kids horrified by Jim Crow, many more African Americans were arrested and abused and killed in fighting it. And it took the political genius of LBJ to get the civil rights act passed.

    So I may be ignorant of your personal history and the way it colors your perceptions of the past, I do feel pretty certain I am learned and aware of the history of the 60s, since I have been endlessly exposed to stories and media related to it since my freaking birth.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:14:04View | Delete

    Aye, I accept that my impressions are pop filtered. But there hasn’t ever been a counter narrative offered up to express what it was truly about. Sex, drugs, and rock’n'roll is what I and almost everyone born after that festival associate and know about it. Those who have different POVs don’t readily offer them up.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 12:10:54View | Delete

    Wow, you can’t take a little abuse, even though that notion of abuse is debatable. Considering that is a basic behavior (the powerful abusing those with less power)in power relationships, now wonder the contemporaneous Left has no backbone. No wonder so much of what you set out to do failed. You old guys make these arguments to easy for me. You suffered, I’ve suffered, everyone has suffered.

    Get over your hurt feelings. Go out there and be the change you want to be. Use the nobility of your age to an advantage. Suffer, suffer violence, blows, and the loss of freedom. And tell the world about it, and suffer being ignored. You are not as important as you think you are. Welcome to this new reality, the same one it always has been.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 11:46:05View | Delete

    What you call anger, frustration, and cynicism is my passion for the history of ideas and for the truth. So much of the failure of the 60s as an idea was the unwillingness for participants to look at what they had done honestly.

    Yeah Woodstock was great, but what did it change? How many of those people at the concert went back home and changed their personal worlds?

    Woodstock was entertainment and spectacle, first and foremost, and was about selling albums for all the acts. Even if the concert wound up being free, it was a commercial for music, fashion, and a lifestyle. What you don’t see in the movies and documentaries, etc. is any freaking political speech or even a call to action. It was a great big hippie lovefest. It happened and wasn’t sustained. Therefore it failed, died on the vine, withered away. Maybe it formed some seeds, and maybe we will see those sprout, but it hasn’t made most people’s lives any better.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 11:21:26View | Delete

    There were massive anti-war protests coordinated globally in 2003. So yeah, I think if we wanted to organize a free rock concert we could. Maybe we could even do a global rock concert, since those have been so successful at changing anything about the current power structure.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 11:17:46View | Delete

    I’ll probably get banned because now someone is threatening to tug on the purse strings, because they find certain aspects of free speech distasteful, you know, like the aspect of critical thinking. But don’t let me interrupt you as you play your power game of implications.

  • whimperbang commented on the blog post “The Sixties” Debate

    2011-05-22 11:13:45View | Delete

    My question to you, and realize I live in the now, as presumably so do you, my question is this: Do you imagine that those of us who understand, regardless of generation and cultural mythology will, somehow, be able to work together, unafraid to change the world, starting with ourselves?

    Hasn’t that always been the case? It may not be so much so for the USA, but I think and see that it is so around the world.

    It is not that I such much vilify the generation as so much vilify the triumphalist BS that many of the generation tell themselves. You know, that whole lack of any humility, any recognition of reality.

    It used to be a joke amongst my friends, that most people over a certain age would always tell you that they had been at Woodstock, even though this was not certainly true.

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