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3 years, 3 months ago
  • Once again you’re confusing my reaction to language with a reaction to an action.

    As I said before you started yelling at me, maybe this is a generational thing, and I planned on sleeping on it — and researching it (I don’t know how old you are, but I have a rough idea of Kevin’s age). I did discover that I’m not crazy, and that the term was used by teenage boys in the ’50′s (and I’m sure in the 70′s when I was a teenager ) to mean “heavy petting.” Consensual petting, that is. Or, the lack of being able to “get to second base” as in “I couldn’t even cop a feel.”

    Dictionary of contemporary slang


    The word retains this meaning in other contexts: teenagers “cop a feel” on a date, and they have also been known to “cop an attitude”

    SO, these are my shoes: I read multiple tweets, articles and blogs (which, I’ll repeat I only follow because Kevin’s good reporting got me following them) about rapes and sexual assaults happening in Zuccotti Park. I read that one of the main ways that they were combatting these problems was purchasing large tents. I go to FDL and read about the purchase of the tents with language that to me was language of teenage boys used about how far they have gotten on a date. I write something about my reaction to this language. (and while it was described as “hot,” it was much cooler than the way I felt.) The language (of teenage boys on a date, in my experience) was defended by and repeated by the author. I then did see (before replying again — hence my “maybe it’s a generational thing”) that the language is also used to mean sexual assault (touching without permission), but if I have to look it up in an urban dictionary, I’m sorry, I still think it’s not a serious treatment of a serious crime. Then I’m yelled at by you ….

    I’m not sure there’s any moral other than the fact that apparently I’m either too old or too female or too outspoken or too moody for this conversation on this blog. I’m a native English speaker, so I don’t plan on looking up every term I read to see how it’s changed over the years. So I can’t say that I wouldn’t have the same exact reaction the next time. Except, like I said originally, I’m certainly much less likely to bring up a grievance again, or less likely to even read the blog next time. And also like I said before, I believe that rape and sexual assault should not be referred to using slang. “Rape” and “sexual assault” are not “clinical” in my mind, they’re just honest and direct.

  • I think we’re going to go round and round. I don’t think the action is “cute.” Ever. If someone said “he was touchie and feelie when she didn’t wantie-pooh” that would be describing the same despicable, criminal, action. But then I would say that describing it that way is trying to describe a violent crime using “cute” language. I guess by your logic you would say that my complaint would be saying that sometimes sexual assault is cute. All I am saying is that if it’s a violent crime, why the hell the cute language? Why not call it sexual assault?

    And, since I follow many of the twitter accounts that Kevin himself follows/ has suggested, I know that he has seen that many occupiers are saying that the tents were purchased solely because of the sexual assaults, including several rapes — not because of the winter, although added warmth is surely a plus. I think the purchase was even made by the security Working Group, and not the Comfort one, though I may be wrong. So a blog post with the headline about tents that were purchased because of numerous violent sexual assaults including rapes, that are then described as women who are “afraid of men lurking to touch them sexually” and “cop a feel” is more difficult in a bigger tent (without even a mention that these violent acts have in fact occurred) was shocking.

    But I will move on. I’m not going to become less bothered by the language, and neither the author nor you nor I gather most others understand my being bothered so there it is.

  • THERE IS NO NEED TO SHOUT AT ME!! Yes, I know that “touching them sexually,” and “cop a feel” is sexual assault. I never suggested they weren’t or that a victim of a sexual assault isn’t entitled to kicking the perpetrator in the nuts or wherever and reporting him or her to the police — I’m not sure where you got that from. I was and still am offended at using “cute” terms for rape and sexual assault because words and language do matter. THE VERY FACT THAT YOU FIND YOURSELF SCREAMING AT ME shows that words matter.

    And yes, I know, so there’s no need to tell me: despite the title “dissenter,” and despite all the talk around FDL about “those people at the orange website telling us to get lost,” the next suggestion will be for me to go elsewhere.

  • Copping a feel is what can happen before someone is actually raped.

    What? I don’t even know how to respond to this.

    Like I said I find this completely and totally offensive, but I’m going to come back to it in the morning to see if there’s any chance that this language is a generational thing and not as ugly as it frankly sounds to me, especially now that you say it purposefully and not as one thoughtless phrase in a long post.

  • If supplies can go to our friends to the north, Occupy Edmonton is at OWS at this moment asking for $ for (really cold) winter gear. Even if the $ is approved, maybe FDL OccupySupply should contact Occupy Edmonton about future needs/alliances.

    Re. Quanto’s points: Do American consumers buy the cheap plastic junk from Walmart — sure we do. But you can’t separate that from what eCAHNomics says about wages being low and how that works into the cycle. The market system also doesn’t put a price for the environmental damage that producing and shipping that junk does. And we listen to the neoliberal ideas that protectionism is bad, and therefore we favor our “partners” who are complicit in slave labor and the murders of trade unionists.

  • Sorry, forgot about “critique of robustness of accusations.” I find them credible — multiple reports, including one arrest. One of links talks about NY Post’s exaggeration of issue, but I haven’t seen any credible sources saying it’s not happening.

    But my complaint is calling these allegations “copping a feel.” Any report that talks about the purchase of the tents in light of safety talks about sexual assault. I wasn’t there, I can’t say with 100% certainty what happened. But I CAN say that I find calling it “copping a feel” is offensive on every level.

  • Kevin,
    There are reports and allegations of rape and other sexual assault. (it probably doesn’t help that NYPD is apparently dropping off people straight from Riker’s and telling drunk belligerent homeless people to “take it to Zuccotti). Please don’t portray a serious violent crime as “copping a feel.” There is nothing cute about rape.

  • yoself commented on the diary post Oakland: This is what a police state looks like by Janet Rhodes.

    2011-10-29 17:20:33View | Delete

    I don’t really like the way nested comments work, so to reply generally: there’s no way to discuss police force in Oakland without talking about race. It doesn’t have to divide us, but it can’t be denied, either. And although I would never defend the mayor, Oakland is one place where the police department has [...]

  • “why are there obomabots left?”

    Didn’t you know? The Republicans made him do it.

    He knows your frustration, he feels your pain, stop cryin’, He’s all for saving human civilization but there are no other adults in the room, filibuster, FOX News, Limbaugh, Boehner bad guys, lobbyists, firebaggers.

  • One thing that sets the occupy movement apart is the teach-ins, forums and all the different meetings. People are definitely talking about all these issues. Whether that will expand beyond the core group remains to be seen.

  • That sounds a bit creepy, even to me.

    In all seriousness, I saw the Kindle version is coming next week — any news on the audible version?

  • I’ve also gotten the impression that the public at large is not that negative about the civil disobedience that leads to arrest as I’ve seen in the past. I think that at least some people are waking up to the two-tiered system and that petitions won’t cut it.

  • The cases I’ve heard you mention are cases where charges weren’t brought and investigations not even carried out. Is there evidence that the judicial system has also moved towards immunity for the elite?

  • I actually think that by being so broad it’s hard to buy off with token changes. I wasn’t convinced by Kevin here, and Glenn, at the beginning, but I think they were right that no “demands” are needed, and I think that makes the movement strong.

  • …only then did public opinion change.

    But doesn’t that show that our memories are getting shorter or we’re getting more forgiving since Nixon? Nixon’s legacy of being a crook will never be lived down, but it seems that Bush has already lived down his.

  • yoself commented on the blog post Support for Affordable Care Act Hits New Low

    2011-10-28 14:17:10View | Delete

    Yes, the bill was always terrible for young healthy adults who could take a risk not getting insurance while they saved or looked for jobs with insurance. Now of course there’s no saving or jobs in their futures anyway, so they don’t need to wait until 2014 to be upset with Obama and the Dems. And there’s lots of time to cut out any of the positives in the bill — they’re working on cutting the medicaid increases, they’ve already cut long-term care, etc.

  • The system is rigged. That doesn’t meant it can’t change — that we can’t change it — as a matter of fact, we must. But it will be nothing as simple as an election in 2012. And while I don’t think these dems do anything without Obama, to do it electorally, we’d need 51 votes in senate and 218 US Reps in addition to the President. (and hope for the best re. SCOTUS that elected one president, came to decision in Citizens United and decides on First Amendment issues). The 1% control voting hours and regulations and machines and airwaves and Internet and newspapers. They control our food our shelter our energy. They control the police, national guard, and the military. When in doubt they put swaths of citizens in jail (can’t vote), fund false “populist movements,” and more.

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