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DISCLAIMER: “I, metamars, am speaking only for myself in this diary and my comments therein, and am not speaking for NPA, Dr. Cornel West, MyFDL, or Jane Hamsher.”
The recent dustup due to Hedges’ article on Cornel West could be a real God send. While some of what West said was probably ill-advised, he also touched on many things that the NPA (New Progressive Alliance) could enthusiastically back him on.
I’m a little afraid that West will back down, overall, out of fear of becoming a pariah. See http://my.firedoglake.com/kgosztola/2011/05/18/cornel-wests-disgust-with-obama-should-not-make-him-a-pariah/
Much better would be to go on the offensive, IMO. I.e., exploit this dustup (with West’s blessings, of course), to take things to a higher level. Specifically, West, with the NPA’s backing, could undertake an education program, with the initial target the US black community, of teaching them about, say, Obama’s Top 10 betrayals, and Obama’s Top 5 betrayals of Afro-Americans.
This might draw howls of protest from main stream media’s “service intellectuals” (to use Denis Rancourt’s phrase), but that would be a good thing, provided West and the NPA stick to their guns.
To increase the trouble making factor (with the resultant extra media attention), a 3rd prong of the educational effort could be incorporated, namely one exposing the Top 10 Veal Pen members (and individual service intellectuals whose effect on the public mind is similar). Maybe Ed Shulz will rank as a Veal Pen-nish service intellectual, despite his lefty preferences.
One of the maddening things about American politics is that people are too tribalistic, and tend to demonize their opponents across the board, unfairly. This makes opportunistic and rational cooperation on specific issues very difficult, and is thus dis-empowering for the electorate, as a whole. However, it’s just as maddening when large segments of the population are so ignorant that they can’t identify who their enemy is, on any particular issue. (This is sort of the opposite of dichotomous tribalism.) Obama is not the friend of black or white Americans when it comes to health care, and a whole lot of other stuff. It’s a shame that more black Americans don’t realize this, but this situation is rectifiable.
Time to make – by educating Afro-Americans, and eventually the rest of the counrty – some enemies in high places, no? The folks at blackagendareport.com could also be key allies.
60 Comments
Meta, take it to the bank; West will not back down.
Agreed. Underneath that get along with me brothers exterior he is firm in his beliefs and his commitment to them.
Like an iron fist wrapped in velvet.
Well, maybe suede. But you get the idea.
Who the phook are a buncha white wanna be’s to think they should be re-educating black people about Obama, or anything else?
(some devils advocate there, some of my feelings)
There is a semblance of something in here that’s just a bit too, um, too, condescending in a racial context.
I get trying to change hearts and minds to draw people to yer cause . . . . but there’s something fundamentally, weird to me, about this language to do so in the African American community.
It’s sounds so . . . paternalistic, which is code for racist . . . whether it’s intended or not.
I don’t know how else I would have phrased yer diary Meta, but to me it seems a bit, naive at the best, and ignorant of racial issues, at the worst.
N no, I’m not black so I guess I shouldn’t be speaking about MY apparent criticism of YOUR writings, either.
But I did.
At yer best intent, I concur, we the people need to reach out to everyone to affect change.
On the other hand, change under these circumstances we face is not gonna happen without great pain and suffering and chaos amongst we the people, far beyond what we face now (en masse, many are facing horror daily in our country).
So, in the meantime . . . language and intent is everything.
“One of the maddening things about American politics is that people are too tribalistic, and tend to demonize their opponents across the board, unfairly.”
I think that Obama, like Shrub before him, has fully earned the demon label, fair and square.
Oh, and welcome to the fight, Dr. West. Thanks for accepting some responsibility for your role in bringing that narcissistic hypocrite to power. Better late than never.
No, nothing condescending, even if I didn’t lay out the case more carefully. The reasoning behind going after black voters, first, is tactical and strategic. The Hedges/West article very recently came out, and black voters support of Obama is still pretty solid. I’m pretty sure it’s the racial demographic most behind Obama, though it shouldn’t be.
Going after black voters, first, thus represents an opportunity to go after what Obama and the Democrats must consider a stronghold. Imagine what would happen if that stronghold disappeared.
Also, while I don’t have statistically significant data, my personal encounters with friends and family indicate to me that almost all people – black, white and polk-dotted – don’t know about Obama’s backstabbing deal with Billy Tauzin, and other healthcare dodginess. Obama and the Democrats’ support would nosedive if the public weren’t so ignorant.
I suppose you might consider my description of the electorate, in general, as ignorant, to be condescending, but that would be your problem. I’m speaking the truth, not trying to be diplomatic and win a popularity contest.
In fairness to Dr. West, steveo67, he called for a primary challenger to Obama last November, and was a strong critic long before that.
and what about the rest of us?
who voted for O?
many of us did. are we also not responsible for “bringing that narcissistic hypocrite to power”? we are.
I’m not saying you are wrong. in fact I agree 100%.
he duped a lot of us. a lot of us.
time to show people the true O.
If we on the left do not present a serious primary challenge to Obama
the game is over: we will have been reduced to nothing more than spectators.
At one of Obama’s meet and greets he ask Harry Belafonte, if “you guys could cut me some slack?” Belafonte answered (in his gravelly voice), “I thought we were.”
I have to say, every time I hear a story “on a personal level” about Obama, it makes me think I’m glad I don’t know him personally. Thin-skinned. And if you don’t kiss his ass, he’ll call you out on it.
I got that feeling (as expressed by Larue above) as well, metamars, even if you didn’t intend it. To my mind, the meeting of minds which the interview represents, and which our vote for Obama represented, is far too important to be concerned about racial divisions. Professor West is that kind of figure, and that, friend, is the ‘stronghold’ you want to promote. We all have the struggle of overcoming our joyful pride at having elected a mixed race candidate (many of us being in that condition ourselves to some degree) and admittedly for the black population that’s much more of a hurdle. But let them work it out for themselves as they will have to do.
When I critiqued the Hedges interview on another thread, it wasn’t in any way with reference to the race of the participants; it was with reference to what each stands for in the political arena. That’s where the message has resonance.
But I understand your eagerness. The ball has to start rolling somehow, and that is difficult given the mainstream media we’ve got at present. It might just be the best that can be done is for the progressive partiers to give support to Cornell West, rather than the other way around. He’s probably going to have his hands full.
By the way, my reading on the Pennsylvania movements creating an independent America cause me to think that these alone, while important to bring forward, have little impact until and unless a formidable police apparatus is arrayed against them. This is rather enlightening, I think. Without the army on the other side, so to speak, in Egypt, would the drama of the protestors in the square have amounted to anything? Is it possible to quell the various uprisings in the Middle East with force, or is said force simply feeding the spirit of rebellion?
I don’t think you were being condescending at all – many hands can stir the pot, and the more the better!
There will be no primary challenge to Obama, I would bet a gazillion dollars against it. I doubt there is any Democrat,with the possible extremely remote exception of Dennis Kucinich,who would have the nerve to do it. I could see Kucinich fulfilling the Ron Paul role of just attempting to inject some different issues in the debate as a respite from the usual lip-service pandering.
If people are interested in options to the Big Two, they will have to go Third Party or write-in – I just don’t see any other possible option.
I advocate building a movement, finding a leader and doing an end-run around the whole entrenched, corrupt, media and corporate driven superstructure. I think II CAN BE DONE. In fact, that’s what I would use as the slogan for the movement, or possibly, WE ARE THE CHANGE.
I got the same feeling as well, and I am black.
That said, I don’t really think that what you’re ultimately trying to do (if much better worded) is wrong. I also think that such an effort may have more success if it tries to target younger black voters who desperately wanted to see a change from the Bush years-and got the same astronomically high unemployment, systematic abuse and neglect, et cetera, we’ve always gotten.
Yeah, if you’re going to have BlackAgendaReport as your “allies”, you might want to be ready to explain the fact they been trashing Obama since the day he hit the national stage in 2004. I don’t see that working out very well.
Also, you may have trouble having Dr. West on board with you little endeavor since at no point in time whatsoever has he’s been appointed a black leader by any number of black people. In fact, the black community tend to frown upon those black persons who act like they are the arbiter of “Blackness” like Dr. West just did.
And yeah, thinking that the majority of black people are a bunch of ignoramuses when it comes to politics and that they only support Obama because he’s black is not going to be very popular either.
But I look forward to what you guys come up with.
Educating black people? Black people are ignoramuses? (itmidnight)
Um, FDL isn’t really helping its image as the racist-friendly “liberal” blog here.
Holy shit firebaggers suck.
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I was thinking.
Also: “Afro-American”? Good lord the stupid burns…
What malinowski said: Holy shit firebaggers suck.
WTF? You could hardly be more racist. FDL has been on a downward slide for awhile. Way to accelerate the race to the bottom.
Cornel West should save his hurt feelings for his family and friends, and his theories about Obama’s purported fear of free black men for his (West’s) “You talkin’ to me?” monologues before the bathroom mirror.
Which is not to say West’s other concerns don’t have merit — but he seriously undercuts his credibility by cloaking those concerns in a bunch of crap.
And FDL, I see, is still completely bonkers. I mean: Dayum.
firebagger = teabagger.
Uh, Cornel West is the thin-skinned one here. Obama was thinking purely politically.
Yes. Cornel West has been a critic of Obama ever since his friend Tavis Smiley got “dissed” when Obama wouldn’t appear at Smiley’s forum.
Personal aggrievement is what this is all about.
That’s mighty *white* of your metamars. Mighty white of you.
man and I thought Daily Kos was irrelevant and had issues with race. All this confirms is that a significant segment of (white American) progressives are simply racists.
yeah that’s right. you folks are a bunch of racists.
Quote: “All this confirms is that a significant segment of (white American) progressives are simply racists.”
I don’t know about significant. Hard to say what portion of progressives are represented by FDL. I fervently hope it’s a small portion.
Far as I’m concerned, this place irrevocably declared its irrelevance with Jane Hamsher’s teaming up with Grover Norquist back during the health care debate and hasn’t recovered since. The members seem to be childlike followers of … well, let’s just say they’re childlike followers.
It is terribly frustrating to over and over run up against this belief that black people are incapable of reading, analyzing, understanding, and taking decisions based on that understanding.
Really, the lecturing is, at the very least, counter-productive. At worst, you’ll get a lot of black people hoisting the middle finger in your direction.
On the contrary, if black people were incapable of coming to an understanding of how and why Obama is not their ally on a host of issues, there would be no point in educating them. And the same goes for white people.
I’m not going to look up links, but I have argued for an “Operation Expose Obama”, long ago. The basic idea is that you educate people as to what Obama has helped do to them (in opposition to his rhetoric), and then support for him will collapse. When I penned my thoughts about “Operation Expose Obama”, there was no suggestion of targeting the black electorate, first.
This diary is different, and does indeed suggest targeting the black electorate, first. For reasons that I have already stated, and that require no repetition nor further elaboration.
Those people who wish to twist my words into implying that black people are “incapable” of basic cognitive functions may do so, but they are reading something into my writing which isn’t there, and thus are spewing BS. As to why they’d spew BS, you need to ask them, not me.
Now, a possibly interesting argument to have is whether or not black Americans – or white Americans, for that matter – are actually aware of all the ways that Obama has screwed them, but support him, anyway, having exercized their “capabilities” (i.e., cognitive functions) in an assumed context of NON-ignorance.
At present, this is NOT an interesting argument for me to participate in, for the simple reason that I’ve never met anybody, in person (the niche world of an online blog is a very separate reality) who was aware of Obama’s backstabbing deal with Tauzin.*
If anybody has a shred of statistical evidence that knowledge of the Obama-Tauzin deal is widespread in either the black or non-black electorate, please present it. Based on my experience and, indeed, personal polling, the general public is indeed woefully ignorant of this.
This widespread ignorance suggests that much support for Obama is based on tribalism (I’m using this term in a broader sense than that of racial group, though there’s little doubt in most people’s minds that Obama also benefits from race-based tribalism, when it comes to many black voters, just as he suffers from race-based tribalism, when it comes to many white voters.)
It also suggests that support for Obama and the Dems could be collapsed by educating the electorate as to his misdeeds. For those people who have a problem with targeting the black electorate first, feel free to target, say, the white electorate, first.
IMO, this is not an optimal route to take, at least not if a leading black intellectual like Cornel West were to spearhead an initial effort directed at the black electorate, however I would still welcome it. What is most intolerable is the general ignorance of the population. And, indeed, no matter what segment of the population one starts with, at the end of the day, one wants to propagate the memes of Obama’s betrayals to all sectors.
* Well, I’ve met jeffroby, in person, but only after I became acquainted with him online.
West doesn’t speak for me and I’m African American. See, we don’t all think alike or look alike. IMO, West is no different than a “birther”. He says that President Obama is afraid of “free black people” because he has a white mother and white grandparents. In other words the President is ‘not one of us’. He’s the ‘other’. I wonder if West feels the same way about his child who lives in Europe with his white mother? West and Smiley are displaying the old crabs-in-the-barrel mentality. West feels slighted because his phone calls were not returned and he didn’t get tickets to the inauguration and Smiley because “Senator” Obama had scheduled campaign events and didn’t attend Smiley’s “black conference”. This is so 1960′s it’s unbelievable. They don’t understand that young people converse with and befriend people of all cultures and that “blackness” is not the end all be all for these young people. I can say this even though I’m probably as old or older than West. He is still invested in racial politics. By no means am I saying that blacks in American don’t have unique and extremely difficult issues (when America has a cold, blacks have pneumonia), but West is not helping by his personal attacks. One with sincere motives need not use personal attacks to make a point.
I am NOT a one issue voter. Why would YOU assume that black folks are not aware of the Pharma deal. You are no different then others who ASSUME we don’t know what’s going on. Some of us look at many issues and weigh the pros and cons BEFORE making a decision.
Perhaps the readers of this blog would like to read about the whole Pharma deal here:
http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2010/02/12/the-legacy-of-billy-tauzin-the-white-house-phrma-deal/
I read this and wanted to post a reasoned critique but really it doesn’t deserve it. The dripping condescension about “educating” blacks is repugnant enough but reading the whole post just makes me realise that you’re really too ignorant to know better.
My God, but you are a dick.. however, the comments on this thread give me some hope…
mighty white of you, brah.
How many times do I have to repeat myself? What don’t you understand about “I’ve never met anybody, in person (the niche world of an online blog is a very separate reality) who was aware of Obama’s backstabbing deal with Tauzin.*” and
“If anybody has a shred of statistical evidence that knowledge of the Obama-Tauzin deal is widespread in either the black or non-black electorate, please present it.”
Also, you talking about yourself is completely irrelevant, no matter what the color of your skin. You are a participant in an online, progressive blog. My informal polling was amongst co-workers and family.
I’ll guess that less than 1% of the US population reads FDL. The ignorance that I speak of is that of the unblogged masses.
ETA: “Single issue voter” is also a red herring. I am using the Obama-Tauzin deal as a case in point, but clearly I want a longer list of misdeeds to become widely known:
an education program, with the initial target the US black community, of teaching them about, say, Obama’s Top 10 betrayals, and Obama’s Top 5 betrayals of Afro-Americans.
My invitation to Dr. West isn’t based on him being representative of African Americans, in general. Indeed, it’s clear that West’s dissaproval of Obama is a minority sentiment within African Americans. However, if West was as approving of Obama as the AA community, in general, there’d be no point to him assuming a leadership position in an educational effort, as he’d probably assume there’s nothing particularly important to educate about! My invitation/suggestion would make no sense, in this case!
It’s also certainly not based on any carte blanche approval of all that he recently said. That’s why my second sentence reads as follows:
“While some of what West said was probably ill-advised, he also touched on many things that the NPA (New Progressive Alliance) could enthusiastically back him on.”
Your mistake is in assuming (1) we blacks will be willing to listen to you and/or Cornell West because, since we support Obama, we have to be ignorant of the less than stellar deals he has made to advance his agenda and (2) if we knew about these deals, we would turn our backs on him. Good luck with that. You see, some, perhaps even most of us are aware that compromise and deals have to be made for the greater good. Trust me, I hated that he extended the Bush tax cuts, but I also saw that he did it to save benefits for the unemployed. See? Compromise. You hated it. I hated it. But I understood why it was necessary. You have the luxury of stewing in your hatred. The rest of us are moving on to the next battle.
Your second sentence reminds of those apologies from folks who say: I apologize for ANYONE I MAY HAVE offended. Really? You say: “West was PROBABLY ill-advised. PROBABLY?? Really? I have listened to West for 30 years. Where has he been in the states that are enacting draconian laws to repress the citizens. If he thinks President Obama is the “other” or incompetent, or not progressive enough, what the heck does he think about the Republican Governors who are cutting education and social network programs across this country? Why is he not screaming at the Republicans in Congress and elsewhere who want to abolish the Department of Education and the EPA (given than many black Americans live in areas that are toxic waste dumps for corporations).
I suggest to your bloggers the book, “The Bridge”, by David Remnick. West and Smiley are briefly and IMO adequately discussed in the book.
Metamars, you’re not hearing me.
Whether you intend it or not, this post is centered on the intellectual inadequacies of black people.
For aye our history in this country, white people have been trying to tell us what’s in our best interests and how we should align with this group or that group. I’ve had more than one white conservative who could NOT understand why black Americans, though generally very religious, conservative people, would never take up the cause of movement conservatism. We are not so stupid that we don’t see the inherent support for white supremacy across the conservative movement.
We are like any other bunch of disparate people, we don’t all think alike or see things the same way. However, the vast majority of us have experienced life in America in much the same way. You will not meet many African-American professional men in corporate America who have no stories of being passed over, denied recognition, denied promotions, and generally treated like we don’t know what the hell we’re about.
I’ve spent 30 odd years as a black professional in the white corporate world; and what I see you doing here is much the same as I and many of my friends have experienced. It’s a truism among black professionals that “the black guy has to be twice as good to get half the recognition.” The immediate reaction to your missive will be much the same as the reaction to Donald Trump questioning Barack Obama’s academic credentials: just one more example of white privilege.
I will add the obligatory, “I am not calling you a racist,” because I’m not. I’m not questioning your sincerity or positive motives.
But I will tell you that this will be perceived by most black people as the usual racist spouting from yet another over-privileged white guy.
You’re half right, but your absolutist way of phrasing things means you’re half wrong. Compromise is indeed a feature, not a bug, in a democratic system. That is certainly not the issue; framing things this way obscures the issues.
It’s the deceit and lack of leadership on behalf of people (not corporations and banks) of Obama that needs to be more widely known.
Absolutely. The problem I have with much of the criticism of President Obama is that there is no BALANCE. Not only did he get unemployment compensation extended, he the repeal of DADT; the START Treaty; middle class tax cuts for the middle class and small businesses. I lived through several presidents and I don’t know ONE who has not had to compromise with whomever is in the majority in Congress. People seem to dismiss Congress as though it is not part of the equation. Criticism is fine, but at least be honest. I suspect there are those who wanted the President to refuse the tax cuts for the 2% and the poor unemployed and everything else be damned.
What deceit and what lack of leadership? I’d like to know, because I can direct you to a site that list 244 accomplishments of this President and this administration. Or perhaps you believe as West stated that acquiring equal pay for women is no big deal – it’s a small thing. Or perhaps the millions of children that now have health insurance definitely shows a lack of leadership and was deceitful. I know I won’t convince you of anything and I grow tired of this game you’re playing.
Why do you impugn the motives of Cornell West? Isn’t is possible that West, like me and many other Americans, is sorely disappointed in President Obama? Moreover, It seems clear to me that Obama’s supporters are using racial grievance to deflect legitimate criticism of Obama’s performance as president. I encourage those Obama supporters adopting this tactic to think very carefully about how easily it can backfire.
Oh BS. What deceit are you talking about? Firebaggers are in such denial. To hear them tell it, if folks (white or black) support Obama, it can only because they’re unaware of his deceit and/or lack of leadership.
I repeat: What BS. I am totally unhappy with the ongoing power grab by corporations, Republican whores and their blue dog enablers — but Obama’s leadership has been deft and sure. I have no complaints about him worth mentioning.
Oh sure, it would be gratifying to see him say “Not just no, but hell no” to the GOP, but would that gain us anything? I’m not convinced that it would. It would be satisfying, which is nothing to sneeze at, but I don’t know that it would gain us anything.
Well, this was bound to happen when you have the first black president and he gravely disappoints the Left. I will only say that everyone should consider what a split between the Left and black Americans means. It will likely end in the destruction of the Democratic Party. Since I’m not a Democrat I don’t really care but I thought I’d throw it out there.
Obama squandered the greatest — and perhaps the last — opportunity for America to fulfill its potential. He let the Right Wing regain control of the country. And, unbeknown to many of his former supporters, Obama is a corporatist. So they — we — are angry. Comes with the job when you become president: ask any of them.
Don’t assume because you’re a lefty who’s disappointed with Obama that all lefties are disappointed with Obama. I’m a long time lefty, and I’m not disappointed.
Oh I see: You’re not even a disappointed lefty. Lemme say this then: Don’t assume all lefties are firebaggers, much as you might like to.
Please tell me how you think the writer should respond to being called a Firebagger and a dick. Is it only your sensibilities that matter?
There is no split between the left and Black Americans. The split is between the far-left and other Dems/liberals.
I don’t know what you mean by “lefty” but I don’t know any Leftist who isn’t sorely disappointed in Obama. I suspect you erroneously equate “the Left” with the Democratic Party.
How convenient for President Obama. And the fact that the New Progressive Alliance and Cornell West are promoting an electoral challenge to Obama is no doubt a pure coincidence. Ahem.
Pure coincidence how? No one’s saying it’s a coincidence that there are nutbags on the left. Behold the firebaggers!
You’re wrong! Firebaggers and teabaggers are alike in a number of ways… and here’s one of them: Both tend to think that because they surround themselves with people who think like them, that the whole world (or a goodly portion of the world) thinks like them. That’s simply not the case. I am a long time lefty who would love to see single payer and any number of progressive changes. And if I’m disappointed, it’s not in Obama. It’s that there aren’t of us to get the changes through that we’d like. Obama is fine.
Quote: “Why do you impugn the motives of Cornell West?”
He has made very clear that he feels dissed by Obama because Obama wasn’t calling him back and didn’t give him an invitation to the inauguration. That is personal grievance, and IMO, he should’ve kept it to himself, because it diminishes HIM, not Obama.
I think you’re being too kind.
Uh Oh! wbgonne doesn’t know any Leftists who aren’t disappointed with Obama, so that must mean ALL liberal are disappointed with Obama. Polls be damned.
You truly live in a bubble, don’t you kid?
I just added the following disclaimer to the diary, proper. I want to repeat it near the top of the comments.
DISCLAIMER: “I, metamars, am speaking only for myself in this diary and my comments therein, and am not speaking for NPA, Dr. Cornel West, MyFDL, or Jane Hamsher.”
ETA:
I wanted to post the following as a new comment, but see nowhere ‘Reply’ hyperlinks. Apparently, somebody has thrown a switch to prevent that. Nevertheless, they have left the Edit link available, which is why you can now view the following, which was a comment I posted at a dailykos diary called Nate Silver on CraigsList ad to primary Obama:
Have you been cut loose, metamars? You must feel kinda like Paul Ryan, eh?
Lol.
In fact that is the actual case for all MyFDL diarists. They only ever speak for themselves.
Considering that, painting all 33,750 registered members with the term “firebaggers” when one’s complaint is with a specific small handful of the commentariat here, perhaps one should reconsider such usage.
Of course. I’m sure that’s the reason metamars suddenly decided, after 55 or so comments, to post a disclaimer. Because it’s the actual case for all MyFDL diarists.
;)
I googled a couple of links to my writings on Operation Expose Obama:
Here and here
The need to propagate information readily available on blogs such as FDL to the unblogged masses goes unfilled, and, depressingly, generally unaddressed as a topic of discussion on blogs.
Not very smart, if you want deep changes in society…
Firedoglake only gets about 1/4 million unique visitors per month. My guess is that most monthly unique visitors are “repeat customers”, so FDL is probably getting well under 1 million people per year, viewing it.
That’s less than 1% of the US population.
Unfortunately, like other blogs, there seems to be little to no thought given as to how to propagate it’s political messages outside this proportionately tiny loop. (Occasional TV appearances by Jane are a given.) Operation Expose Obama was primarily conceived of as a temporary strategy. However, the need for it points to a deeper, systemic problem.
I wrote a proposal, years ago, called “Putting the NY Times Out of Business”, which had a systemic focus. (The NY Times was simply the exemplar of what’s wrong with the media.) I’ve lost the document, but you can get a sense of what a replacement media could look like, here.