DISCLAIMER: I, metamars, am speaking only for myself, not NPA, FDL, or Jane Hamsher.
(Note: I was alerted to the Reid Report via this dailykos posting).
Dear Reid Report:
I read Firebags and afros: the *genius* plan to primary Barack Obama and it’s not half bad. Very defective, but with lots of links that can serve as a good jumping off point to get a clearer picture.
While not half bad, and even useful, it has some ‘blunders’. Well, I don’t know if they’re really blunders, or if you are being deceitful. Perhaps you’ll care to elaborate? Maybe they’re simply gross distortions, which you are incapable of recognizing as such.
There are examples in your piece of marginalizing serious critics, by what are ad hominem attacks. (E.g., “And the most notable feature of anti-Obama progressives like Greenwald, Sirota and Moore, is their utter contempt for anyone marginally loyal to the Democratic Party.” Yeah, right! I haven’t read much of Greenwald, but saying Sirota and Moore have such “utter contempt” is a fantasy, which reveals you to be a misleading propagandist.)
However, I will simply focus on the following, so that there is a clear record of a few of your mis-conceptions in at least one, limited place.
“In a two-party system, it’s a zero sum game. Seeking the defeat of Democrats means seeking the election of Republicans, period. That is no way to advance the progressive cause. Push the Democratic Party as far left as you can, where you can. Speak up. Get involved. But trying to elect Republicans? That puts those who do that on the opposite side of people like me.”
First of all, NPA has no explicit policy to seek the defeat of Democrats for the gain of Republicans. (Now, yours truly has argued for exactly that, on a limited basis – up to, say 5-10% per election cycle; but yours truly doesn’t speak for the NPA, isn’t on it’s steering committee, etc.) Basically, the NPA doesn’t care about the Democratic Party, considering it terminally corrupt. (Again, yours truly doesn’t agree with this; In fact, I’m concerned that it’s a major strategic blunder, and that a progressive, trans-partisan voting bloc should make final decisions about which candidates, via whatever party, they find most suitable. See, e.g., Recommended Short and Long Term Voting Strategies for the Dump Obama Movement.)
The NPA is looking to grow it’s own political muscle, not get Republicans elected. If some Republicans do get elected, as a result, this is considered to be an acceptable loss. Boo, hoo! During WW2, the Allies bombed French towns that had Germans in them. They weren’t trying to kill the French, who happened to be there, also, but of course they killed some French, anyway. The loss of seats to Republicans is supposed to be temporary – NPA, to amount to anything, has to pursue a multi-election-cycle strategy of growth. Embracing a mental straight jacket of dominating fear of Republican victories in the next election has contributed mightily to the current state of disempowerment of the public.
Your simplistic outlook shows a strategic naivete that ignores the desired effects of persistent, multi-election cycle efforts, the continuing demoralization – with attendent withdrawal from electoral politics – of progressively inclined voters due to electing back-stabbing con men like Obama, and the desperate need to strike back in a convincing, aggressive manner against the corporatized, dominant segment of the Democratic Party.
My guess is that you truly suck in a strategic game like chess, and that you’d suck as a psychologist, also.
You say, “Push the Democratic Party as far left as you can, where you can. Speak up. Get involved.” but who can take you seriously? While I’m not familiar with your writings, and you may actually have written something insightful and useful about pushing the Democratic Party leftward, my brief encounter with your writing is not encouraging. Can you please tell me how your notions of “speaking up” would have any more effectiveness than sending a bouquet of roses to the White House, and attaching a tender note, saying “Please, please don’t screw us any more, like you did with Obamacare. We love you, we really do! Love and kisses, your loving, progressive base”. And do tell us, won’t you, if after speaking up in a Reid-report approved way (whatever that might entail), we find out that Rahm Emmanuel calls us “F@#$@#$ retards” and both he and Obama snicker at us, when they chat on the phone?
Finally, I’ll also add that you appear to have deliberately, selectively quoted me to mislead your readers. You wrote, “one of whom, an FDL diarist who goes by the handle “Metamars” — even saw an opportunity to put West on the front lines, to “educate” … the “Afro-Americans” to understand that Obama is “not their friend.”]”
However, what I wrote is, “Obama is not the friend of black or white Americans when it comes to health care, and a whole lot of other stuff.” (emphasis mine).*
And, indeed, he is not. One wonders why you haven’t figured this out. He is the great friend of the parasitic healthcare industry, which sucks the financial life blood out of America’s struggling workers, both black and white. John Q. Public, not so much.
* I’ve recently wrote about what can be described as 2 common categorization errors, commonly seen in political arguments. One is dichotomous tribalism – basically “us good, them bad”, which typically allows for all manner of ugly smearing of the “them”. The other sort of categorization error is sort of the opposite. It can be described as “our leader good (all the time)”.
In the former case, overly negative characterizations of political opponents are made. (I wrote about a particularly ridiculous example, here.) In the latter case, an overly positive, optimistic and naive image is accepted of the leader.
===============================
P.S.: I’m half expecting visitors from a site called “Balloon-juice.com” to try to “shout down” this diary. I say that based on this comment:
FDL commenters (admittedly only a few) appeared to be either supporting or giving very measured criticism of the FDL piece until we lot showed up and started shouting them down. And as we’ve seen in the past, the community there keeps falling into this same trap. If they want a different perception, they have the power to effect it – both Jane and co and the community itself. I don’t think it’s an unearned perception.
(emphasis mine)
ETA: Once again, I cannot reply to comments, though I can still edit. (This happened 2 diaries ago, also.)
Reply to shekissesfrogs, who says, “You misquoted yourself.” Nonsense, as simply reading what I wrote would show you. Furthermore, there’s no contradiction between my quote of myself, which you say is a “misquote”, and the second quote of myself, which you introduce. So what you’re trying to argue, even if were true that I misquoted myself, may make sense to you, but not to me.
Kindly think things through a bit before you post, OK?



32 Comments

Clarification:
“yours truly has argued for exactly that, on a limited basis – up to, say 5-10% per election ”
More precisely, I’ve called for removal of certain Democrats from office (initially, the worst of the worst; later I refined this strategy to “the worst of each band”; you’ll have to search through my diaries and comments for details).
If a progressive voting bloc didn’t have the political muscle to replace a bad Dem with a superior candidate in the general election, then I have pointed out that it’s dumb just to, e.g., stay home. In most general elections, to make sure you fire a Democrat, you should vote for a Republican.
Electoral threats need to be actualized, not merely provide amusement for the Rahm Emmanuels of this world.
Elections are a zero-sum game in which one party’s losses are gains for the other mainly because the Uniparty restricts ballot access. Not voting for a Dem automatically elects a Republican only when the voters are denied a third or fourth choice.
I thought the Reid report piece was way off in its implied view that the FDL establishment bloggers and FDL as an organization, including Jane, who, btw, Reid seems negatively obsessed with, are somehow part of the same bloc as NPA, altogether in wanting to primary Obama. This isn’t my reading at all. Nor is Jeff Roby part of NPA, even if he also wants to primary Obama. It seems to me that Reid is inventing a coalition that does not exist, and is crediting NPA with far more influence than it currently has.
On the other hand, Reid is trying to marginalize the opposition to Obama with ad hominems, and labelling, and fails to make any case on the merits. In fact, he says nothing about the reasons for dissatisfaction that many in the FDL commentariat express. he mentions nothing about Obama’s failures as perceived by the critics.
In short, the Reid report is a hit job based on a Fairy Tale. It shouldn’t be taken seriously as a piece of analysis.
Utter contempt for anyone marginally loyal to the Democratic Party? That would be me. Democrats (and Republicans) ruined and are ruining the country for personal gain. I hate them.
I’m not part of NPA either but I wonder if my petition here:
http://my.firedoglake.com/ubetchaiam/2011/04/06/no-obama-in-2012/
has anything to do with Reid’s pronouncements; 72 sigs on the petitionsite petition without much push by myself for signatures.
If people really want a different Democrat Party presidential nominee, let’s get the 1,000 sigs I’m hoping for.
Thanks for the info LGID
I was just going to ask who this Reid person was and I didn’t want to click on the link to give him ‘hits’
And the comments at the baloonjuice link are too ‘go team Democrat’ for me. It’s amazing to me how people are so caught up in a ‘brand’ that they can’t see the real world effects of their self delusion on others
“Heard my name used in vain, thought I might chip in with a few words as one of the first calling for primarying Obama, speaking for myself.
“The issue here isn’t Greenwald, though I’m rather fond of him. Or Cornel West. Rather, it’s the plan to primary Obama and then continue the challenge into the general election with a to-be-determined independent.
“Let’s focus on the fundamentals. There is a vast chasm between Obama and the party leadership, and the progressive party base. His healthcare schema is a giveaway to the insurance companies, the mandate will drive middle and lower income people into the ditch, his tax cuts for the rich are going to be paid for by ripping asunder what’s left of the social safety net, then there’s the Catfood Commission, and his wars, and his wars, and his wars …
“We progressives are voiceless, and we insist that we must be heard. A primary challenge is the best way to give that, given the media’s obsession with the presidential horse race. In the unlikely event that our challenger wins the nomination, our faith in the system will be restored, but such is not expected.
“Going independent is the only way to keep that voice alive. It is interesting that the piece completely ignores what the NPA stands for:
“1) Full Employment
2) Medicare for All
3) Civil Rights/Human Rights/Civil Liberties
4) Fair Trade
5) End the Wars Now
“Rather modest, actually. That such is now the mark of flaming bolshevism says more about the NPA’s critics than anything.
“The strategic strength of the NPA’s inside/outside tactic is that it has the potential to unite progressive independents (and independents of various stripes constitute 40% of the electorate) with progressive Democrats. Both these forces are internally diverse, and such diversity exists within the NPA as well, but such diversity is one of our strengths.
“The goal is organization, and that is why an organization as small and meek as Dorothy confronting the Wicked Witch of the West strikes fear, more so than pronouncements by liberal pundits whose words come an go like the tide. We defy the traditional framework of understanding. We don’t get into arguments about the merits of Democrats and Republicans, which is worse, those who would kill us directly, or those who would strip away our weapons to confront those who would kill us directly? The question is, what builds the progressive movement? We believe that campaigning on the above-stated issues is more important than the usual sterile debate.
“The rest of the piece is business-as-usual hit-piece bullshit — won’t our leaders take our money, advertising revenue aspersions. Calling progressives kooks while covering for war criminals of both parties.
“The time for business-as-usual is long past.”
clarification on 2 points:
(1) the comment above is my response to the Reid Report drivel cited by metamars.
(2) While letsgetitdone is correct when he writes, “Nor is Jeff Roby part of NPA,” I fully support the efforts of the NPA. The relationship is currently at arm’s-length because it gives me the freedom to develop ideas without constraint, and it gives the NPA the ability to disavow me should I write anything embarrassing to them.
Jesus, dude, you’re hanging out with those mouthbreathers at Balloon Juice? With that angry black woman whatever she calls herself and her obama starry eyes, and cole and all his haughty BS? Really? Why?
Sirota calls your latter categorization error “Dear Leaderism”. I always liked his term.
Yeah, I’ve got so much to learn.
I just clicked on some links in this piece and another one by metamars that shows just how naive I am. I really thought the good folks on this side were learning their lesson.
Boy was I wrong. It wasn’t just the level of vitriol for anyone that points out the truth that surprised me, it was the sheer number of folks posting and so obviously oblivious to reality.
Well, the fact they chose the D team must mean they have some decency in them, so I can only hope, for all of our sake, that they wake up and smell the coffee someday.
I’m really beginning to think it won’t happen though. It just HAD to be the first African American president that they used to corrupt the D party too. Brilliant plan. Absolutely brilliant. And depressing. Gonna split us further than we were before.
Oh well, split we’ll be. I can’t go back to burying my head in blue colors while reality rages all around me. The only way through this mess is to either retake the D party or make a third one, or revolution. The last may be our only realistic hope, but it’s also going to be the most difficult and painful one. I so hope one of the former works before that point.
You’ve gotta admit though, once again, here is an example of the left fighting with the left.
I guess it has to be done though. I had no idea there were so many people out there that are so blinded by the D that they can’t see reality.
Just once, JUST FRCKING ONCE, I’d like all those apologists to ADDRESS THE ISSUES, and not the people bring them up.
Address Obama claiming he can assassinate US citizens without due process and the Democratic Congress, after taking vows to uphold the US Constitution, don’t do anything about something so obviously unconstitutional? Address that instead of the fact that I’m fat.
Address THE DEMOCRATS having the ability to do away with the filibuster rule AT ANY TIME THEY WANTED, and the Republicans even agreed that the majority has this tool, yet used the filibuster to hide behind getting nothing done. Address that instead of pointing out how old and stupid I am.
Address the health care bill that DOES NOTHING to address long term costs, entrenches the totally parisitc insurance industry into health care forever and STILL LEAVES MILLIONS WITHOUT HEALTH CARE. Address that instead of calling me names.
Yet all I ever read are personal attacks against Jane, against Glenn, against the people pointing out the issues instead of the issues themselves.
Goddammit it’s frustrating.
I support the NPA, the no-confidence vote for 2012, the primary OBama effort, and any and ALL other efforts that work toward the DEFEAT of Obama AND any current D federal officeholders.
And can someone explain why D partisans are soo, soo, soo frustratingly patient with the D party when they claim we just have to keep working, keep voting for the D’s, keep doing the same thing, just keep doing it and we will get there one day.
Yet when one brings up a third party possibility, it’s THEY CAN’T WIN NOW, and the Republicans will win. Yeah, the Republicans might win THIS election, but what about that whole keep working, keep supporting thing that you claimed for the Democrats?
I mean is there any D partisan that really believes we’re ever going to see bigger majorities than we had in 2008??? Please, what are you smoking. And do you really believe that there will NEVER be a Republican President again??? Really??? Ok, so if you accept reality that there will be, then what difference does it make if it’s in 2012 instead of 2016. Or 2020. OR 2024. Because there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that there will never be a Repubican President again and you D partisans damn well know it.
So please, why the unending patience for the D’s despite all the evidence that they don’t give a crap for the things you do, yet no patience in the world for a third party try??? WTF???
Go here and join me in taking them on. metamars has also brought the NPA to the fore on why Obama should be primaried and metamars on CraigsList ad both on dailyKos.
We are breaking through. This might feel like the NPA is taking a beating, but that’s in part because we are infected with the media’s majoritarian bias — if one side has 50% plus 1, the other side is completely negated. No no no! I am a firm believer in critical mass, and the power of compact minorities, which the teabaggers have embraced to their benefit.
In other words, how many people are we reaching who are responding positively? That is the ONLY number that matters at this point. Do we have enough people to run a campaign?
As Lambert at Corrente loves to quote: “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.” — Mahatma Gandhi.
Allow me to make their best case. They believe we will fail to build anything independent with any real strength. The 3rd party movement has been failing for many years to escape its little ghetto. The fact that Democratic Party progressives have been failing for many years has to be weighed against the crumbs they are still getting. Tinier and tinier, to be sure. The burden of proof, however, is on us.
The NPA has two big facts in its favor: (1) that the chasm between the Dem progressive base and its leadership grows by the day, as the crumbs shrink by the day, and (2) that independents make up 40% of the electorate, of which 40%, at least a solid third can be taken as progressive. And two important differences in its approach that differ from the usual 3rd party isolated campaign: (1) it has an inside/outside tactic, working BOTH within the party and independently at the same time, creating the basis for a progressive independent/progressive Democrat alliance, and (2) its platform is broadly populist (End out Wars, Full Employment) rather than a self-isolating far-left campaign.
The strategy of of the NPA sounds like the one used by Gingrich the Newt to infiltrate the republican part with disaffected southern democrats in the 1960s-1970s. There by eliminating nearly all the old time conservatives.
Hey…guess what..IT WORKED !!
It appears to me that the you don’t get this king of attack unless you are creating waves in the political pond. This was a very small stone that was cast yet it is being felt by many in power.
It’s a great feeling to know that a small group, under 100 people, can generate such a large response.
OFG, let me suggest that you are still under the idea that we are a nation. We’re not except for something like Pearl or 9/11; been building for a long time. The corporatists/fascists have been very successful in their ‘divide and conquer’ strategy.
I think Ted Rall sums up the state of our political system rather nicely.
Harry he who is willing to destroy a thing can control a thing. We only elected Dems to get things we wanted passed into law, the Dems have played us.
Fine now we play you:)
Reid replied. So did I:
http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/05/firebaggers-genius-plan-to-primary-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-20156
It seems to me that Reid and many others in Democratic establishment circles are getting nervous that either a primary challenger or a viable third-party option might just pop up and remake history in 2012 the same way Obama did in 2008.
Gee, wouldn’t that be too bad.
For them.
The Balloon Juice people got a legit gripe the phrase educating African Americans is more than a trifle condescending
“Specifically, West, with the NPA’s backing, could undertake an education program, with the initial target the US black community, of teaching them about, say, Obama’s Top 10 betrayals, and Obama’s Top 5 betrayals of Afro-Americans.”
ABL at Balloon Juice I think is right to be angry. However she defends Obama.
You I fault for doing no research
“According to Gallup’s most recent poll Obama’s approval rating amongst African Americans is down to about 84 percent, which is still higher than any other group, but significantly down from the 90-plus percent approval he had in his first year or so in office. Latino support has also fallen to 54 percent, which again, is much higher than his overall approval ratings, which hovered around 47 percent for most of 2010. As of the middle of April Obama’s approval remains steadfastly at 47 percent, which puts him higher than Bill Clinton (46 percent), Ronald Reagan (41 percent) and of course Jimmy Carter (37 percent) at this point in their respective careers.”
http://drjasonjohnson.com/2011/04/27/gallup-poll-shows-obama-losing-black-and-latino-support-is-the-economy-to-blame/
Obama is going down in the Polls among African Americans and Hispanics. We do want Obama to create more jobs why because we have much higher unemployment numbers.
I am all for challenging Obama in the Primary and the General election such a challenge would force Obama to go Left more just look at how far Right Sarah Palin has dragged the GOP Presidential race.
Me I want someone to talk about the government creating jobs neither the Dems or GOP is doing this instead they all talk about cutting Medicare, Social Security etc but nobody will talk about ending both damm wars and creating jobs.
So yes we have no choice but to primary Obama if we can get some real support behind it.
We need to be the Bad Cop and have Obama tell the GOP you don’t want my crazy partner to come in here.
If Obama refuses to go Left when faced with a Primary challenge then thats his problem.
The 30%er Bush hard core base White Voters already hate Obama because of his color and no amount of compromise will ever change that.
Birtherism, secret Muslim, pals around with Terrorists etc they are all just rationals for what the 30%ers Whites already felt but can’t admit.
Racism is so unfashionable.
I think some people want to make saying anything bad about Obama automatically a racist issue Divide and Conquer.
African Americans and Hispanics have higher unemployment, we both go to prison more, we both go to schools that are funded less than White schools, we both tend to be discriminated against just for our color and nope Obama is doing nothing about it.
Educating us about Obama is like telling an Iraqi at Abu Graid why torture is wrong.
ABL at BalloonJuice is right to be mad about that.
I think she is wrong to charge the entire Lake with racism. A White Person said something I disagree with about race and think is stupid.
The rest of the idea I agree with. I hope we can avoid another stupid flame war.
Chris Hedges has, brilliantly.
You can learn a little more about what he has to say at newprogs.org, but I strongly recommend his latest book to anyone who cares about what’s happened to our country and seeks to understand how – and why.
This is exactly what I was talking about here:
http://my.firedoglake.com/jest/2011/05/19/when-hippies-punch-hippies/
No, OFG, this is not the left fighting with the left. This is sold-out “liberals” chastising the left for refusing to sell out along with them. Big, BIG difference.
I doubt it.
This is the exact same thing that happened in 2003 regarding the Iraq war invasion. There was a split in the left regarding it, but it took years & thousands of lost lives for the idiots on the other side to come to their senses.
The good news is that it wasn’t the first AA that corrupted the party. This shit goes back to Tammany Hall,
and BJ’s leader John Cole knows he’s got a bunch of “my President right or wrong types”, he baits them all the time.
Has anyone even heard of this ReidReport person before now?
This is a diversion, and it’s giving attention to an Obamabot who’s doing thier little Cass Sunstein duties for free. it’s a total Narcissist and loves the attention.
Looks like John Cole doesn’t appreciate being drug into the land of the stupid. His comment at 66
Now metamars and ubetchiam should say thank you to the ReidReportBot for putting all the contacts you need in one spot, and making it easier for all of you to come together synergistically and further your goals of spreading evil throughout the land.
Racists. /s
;)
You are right on the money TCU. Metamars, this really comes off as racist.
This is what you really wrote:
You misquoted yourself. ABL has got good reason to be upset by this it’s offensive. but ReidReport is jumping on because she loves to hate, and obviously keeps a running list of every thing anyone ever said, ever.
The black re-education could pair right up with the Republicans anti-abortion campaign targeting Black women. Educating them about how Liberals are using them to get our quotas for Stem Cells.