In the diary
Obama/Kerry Drop 4PM Friday Keystone Bomb: 20 Hours Later, Liberal Websites Have Nothing To Say we read the comment:
To my mind, shutting down Harper’s tar sand project is far more important than the survival or disappearance of the Democratic Party at this point. And prior to that is shutting down K Street; if you do that the shutting down of the uniparty takes care of itself. Don’t go for the sockpuppet, go for the hand.
(emphasis mine)
This diary is a copy of a comment I made in that diary:
============================================================================
Shut down K street? Is that all? Don’t you also need for the heavens to open, and Jesus to descend down from there, to here?
The proof that American democracy is grossly dysfunctional is that even widely popular proposals – like a national health care plan – don’t get enacted, decade after decade.* K street represents a distasteful, anti-democratic, but very legal infrastructure to make corruption of democracy more of a science, than an art.
Even if shutting down the pipeline was a “widely popular proposal” (which I’m doubtful of; otherwise, why wouldn’t 350.org say so?), saying you have to shut down K Street, first, is putting the cart before the horse.
Evidently, you disagree. Well, then, what’s your plan, Stan?
IMO, progressives could achieve power, commensurate with their numbers, but also commensurate with the popularity of some specific progressive proposals, if they weren’t such wimps, and were shrewder.
You’re willing to dispense with the Democratic Party, but where is your realistic plan to dispense with even a single Democrat? If progressives can’t come up with a reasonable plan to aggressively dispense with even a single Democrat, what is the point of speaking of the “dissapearance” of the entire Democratic Party?
There’s a recent diary by Norman Solomon
http://my.firedoglake.com/nsolomon/2013/02/27/three-quarters-of-progressive-caucus-taking-a-dive-on-social-security-medicare-and-medicaid/
telling us
As of now, 54 members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus have taken a historic dive. We should take note — and not forget who they are.
Say now, there’s a plan! Can you imagine a meeting of the French Resistence, during WW2, concluding by saying
let’s not forget who the real enemy is! It’s the German dudes – the ones clicking their heels and saying “Heil Hitler!”
Nor can I imagine the French Resistence concluding a meeting by saying
Well, the Bundesbank clears the checks of the Nazi Party used to pay their troops. So, let’s make the Bundesbank DISAPPEAR! That’ll show them!
Wishing the Bundesbank away is about as realistic as wishing K-Street away.
Another unreal, fantasy-like statement I’ve seen at FDL is the indignant, almost triumphalist statement of some “only 3rd Party” types. The idea that they might forge coalitions with voters who are afraid to dump the Democrats, en masse, by voting out faux progressives in Democratic primaries, and then voting for their favorite Green Party candidate in a general election, is a topic not worthy of discussion, never mind becoming a central tactic to be organized around. Working the French Resistence analogy, once again, this is like the Frenchy freedom fighters saying,
What? Dress up as German soldiers in an attempt to infiltrate and sabotage a German installation! Terrible!! We could never do that! No, we must play by the rules of traditional Resistence movement (OK, we’ll just ignore the very ancient Trojan Horse story; let’s not confuse ourselves with contradictory notions!)
If playing by the rules doesn’t favor us, well, let’s take out our frustrations on the more clever rule-breakers by reminding them of how impure they are! Why, if they’re willing to dress up as Nazis, they probably ARE Nazis!
The lack of political power by progressives, when they are opposed by plutocratic agendas, is no surprise, to me. Politics is the “art of the possible”. Embracing fantasies aborts the very sort of realistic thinking needed by any group wanting to influence an impure, but possible future.
To be clear: I’m all for shutting down K Street. Attempting to do so first, rather than nearer last, is what constitutes a fantasy.
* Of course, I mean one that reduces costs, and is as palatable as any of the plans discussed in Sick Around the World. Obamacare is not what the American people wanted, for decades.



14 Comments

Not going to change the system from the top down. To use your analogy, it would be like the French Resistance trying to change the Nazi Party in Berlin.
It has to be from the bottom up.
How can you expect to have a democratic government when all major corporations – and most small ones as well – are run like mini fiefdoms by feudal lords. Of course they will want the government to run exactly the same way.
Without democracy in the workplace there will be no democracy.
The French Resistence had no democratic rights in Germany – or France, for that matter.
In Greece, SYRIZA went from 2% to 40% in one election cycle. And the most stunning examples of increased leftist power and populist power, that I know of, these last 20 years or so (other than the 1 – off collapse of the Soviet Union) occurred in South America. Hugo Chavez was elected to office, Kirchner, Morales, etc. And they had to overcome School of the Americas trained assassins, economic hitmen, etc.
What do American leftists have to contend with, compared to what leftists had to endure in South America? Corporations that corrupt politicians? Rush Limbaugh saying bad things about them?
Sure, but so what? Boo, hoo.
The American people need to blame themselves, first and foremost, for what they’ve allowed to happen to them.
Exactly so. Americans have lost the experience of self-determination. It begins in K-12, then solidifies in the workplace.
The triumph of 20th Century fascism is intentionally masked by materialism, careerism, and consumerism, and no less so among educated, self-professed progressives. Advertising IS propaganda, kids,and the more you long to look like the actors in cutesy Apple spots, the less free you’re gonna be.
See, the teabagz have a sort of handle of legitimate outsider grievance. It was underwritten by significant Kock money, of course, which catapulted the salient points of the owners above the legitimacy of being written out of the desirable demographic.
Others have made the point, here at FDL, of comparing the progressive activists to French Resistance partisans in WWII. There’s an element of truth to this, sure; but the Resistance also got considerable material and logistic support from British Intelligence and other outside agencies. There isn’t going to be any equivalent of friendly France during the American Revolution, or the Lincoln Brigade during the Spanish Civil War, or MI6 during WWII, to offer an American Resistance any kind of aid and material support.
Our only way has to be asymetrical. Look at the return AIPAC gets on its investment–far outsized relative to the size of its budget. The Isreali fascist movement can teach us a lot about fighting back; but even they have a sugar daddy in the form of Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon. Just sayin’.
“Without democracy in the workplace there will be no democracy.”
That sounds good, and it may even be true. But then I tried to imagine a truly democratic workplace actually working. All I could think of was a bunch of people arguing over the next production or marketing strategy or whatever and no work actually getting done. I’ve thought for long time that true democracy can never actually work.
There must be some sort of order, some sort of hierarchy, in any human organization. The question is, who gets to decide who has the power, how that is decided(here true democracy has a place and can even be paramount), and for how long those in power get to stay there.
Anarchy is a pipe dream.
As for your comment that I used, even if I grant that it is true, that can never happen so long as those who make the rules are opposed to it. For that, we have to change who is on top. Then, and only then, can it happen. I think.
All too true, I fear.
I did not say that there should not be some direction or even directors. Even the Evergreen Cooperatives have a board.
But it who makes it up.
The people who work there. Not some money grubbing stock holders.
Reading the comment as “prior in importance” instead of reading it as “prior in time” might make clear the point.
Touche’. No argument here.
What an excellent description of Government Departments, which are supposed to be accountable to our representatives. The Departments would be accountable if congress people could focus their attention of being congresspeople, instead of being focused on raising money to continue to be congress people.
The veil of secrecy, and thicket of privileges, falling over the executive need removing too.
LMAO
Those arguments already happen. Those arguments are their work. Those people are called executives.
Metamars the arch climate denier in here now wants to lecture and hector us on Progressive power. Troll MFer!
To be fair, the man is the preeminent expert on fantasy as well as delusion and self-regard here at FDL.
Lol! That’s funny, right there! Also true.
Doesn’t refute my point though, now, does it?
The image for me that has come to mind is that of the tsunami. Perhaps indeed, ‘progressive forces’ are on their own at present merely treading water, bobbing up and down like the elements of an ocean wave in place above its unmoving mountain below the surface, and this or that goal far beyond on the cultivated fields or in the towns along the coastline – impossible to reach.
Yet for a tsunami to happen, and happen with no turning it back, there is a weight of accumulation even in bobbing up and down.
Without an earthquake as the undersea mountain splits there is no tsunami; but without an ocean there is no tsunami either.
Shall we then castigate the elements of the ocean? Each will play his part when the time comes.