I’m loathe to make a habit of using my entries to give lengthy responses to other peoples’ diaries, but this one by Jon Walker was so heinous that I feel it necessary to make the case (again) for why eliminating the Senate (or even the more short-term agenda of getting rid of the filibuster) is a horrendously bad idea. There are three chief reasons why arguments in favor of abolishing the filibuster or the Senate are both dishonest and frighteningly dangerous.
FIRST, the Constitution of the United States grants each chamber of Congress the right to write its own rules so as to be able to effectively carry out its legislative function. Section Five determines that “[e]ach House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.” In keeping with the function of the Senate, the filibuster is eminently constitutional, being a rule designed so as to allow the Senate to fulfill its role of slowing down legislation for lengthier and more cautious consideration. Those who argue that the filibuster is unconstitutional are being deliberately dishonest, choosing in their moment-only thinking to ignore this fundamental part of the Constitution itself.
SECOND, those who argue that the filibuster, and indeed, the Senate itself, are an impediment to getting work done in Congress refuse to acknowledge (because it undermines their entire argument) that when the Republicans controlled the Senate during nearly the entirety of the first six years of the Bush-Cheney regime, they were able to pass their agenda without a filibuster-proof majority. If the filibuster is really an impediment to getting things done, then by all rights the GOP should never have been able to pass anything, since it never had enough votes in the Senate to overcome a Democrat-led filibuster. Yet it did just that on numerous occasions. The Bush tax cuts for the super-wealthy, for example, were passed via reconciliation, which allowed them to pass with a simple majority vote. In this manner the Republicans were able to get around the threat of a filibuster. It also helped that far too many Democrats were not willing to filibuster bad legislation when they had enough senators to mount one.
Yet obstacles that proved nonexistent when Republicans controlled the Senate are now insurmountable with the Democrats nominally in charge. Harry Reid, ever the accommodationist, long ago abdicated his responsibilities as majority leader in order to coddle the minority. By allowing the Republicans to phone in their filibuster threats, without ever making them show up to actually do it, he has allowed a lie to be promulgated: that the Democrats can’t pass legislation because of a procedural tactic he won’t even force the opposition to use, and which said opposition was able to overcome when it held the majority position even by one senate seat.
This applies equally to political appointments submitted by the executive branch. There was never a point during the first two years of the Obama regime when the executive was unable to use recess appointments in order to get political appointees into positions that needed to be filled. The Shrub did this on several occasions, most notably in appointing John Bolton ambassador to the United Nations. Whereas Bush was willing to go to great lengths to ram his agenda and appointees through Congress using and all too often abusing his executive powers, Obama now abuses the excuse that he cannot use those same powers to overcome filibusters. Yet absolutely nothing changed between the time Bush left office and the time Obama took office that changed those executive powers.
So the filibuster has not been the obstacle to legislative accomplishments Obama and the Democrats claim it is. That proponents of ending democracy, who once argued how bad an idea it was to eliminate the filibuster when the GOP wanted to do it, now embrace the notion wholeheartedly, and based on nothing more than the false rationale of convenience of the moment, is disturbing.
THIRD, the founders were quite wary mob rule, so much so that when the Constitution was drafted, a bicameral legislature was created so as to help guard against the kinds of abuses wherein the slimmest of majorities might impose its will upon the largest of minorities, in violation of the civil liberties of the public. Indeed, Alexander Hamilton wrote in his introduction to The Federalist Papers:
Among the most formidable of the obstacles which the new Constitution will have to encounter may readily be distinguished the obvious interest of a certain class of men in every State to resist all changes which may hazard a diminution of the power, emolument, and consequence of the offices they hold under the State establishments; and the perverted ambition of another class of men, who will either hope to aggrandize themselves by the confusions of their country, or will flatter themselves with fairer prospects of elevation from the subdivision of the empire into several partial confederacies than from its union under one government.
Hamilton was writing about secessionist movements driven by greed and ambition, but in truth, such a description can apply to virtually any political agenda driven by less-than-noble purposes, which that to eliminate the filibuster or even the Senate itself may be labeled. And James Madison wrote of the dangers inherent in allowing any one branch of government too much power when he wrote:
On the slightest view of the British Constitution, we must perceive that the legislative, executive, and judiciary departments are by no means totally separate and distinct from each other. The executive magistrate forms an integral part of the legislative authority. He alone has the prerogative of making treaties with foreign sovereigns, which, when made, have, under certain limitations, the force of legislative acts. All the members of the judiciary department are appointed by him, can be removed by him on the address of the two Houses of Parliament, and form, when he pleases to consult them, one of his constitutional councils. One branch of the legislative department forms also a great constitutional council to the executive chief, as, on another hand, it is the sole depositary of judicial power in cases of impeachment, and is invested with the supreme appellate jurisdiction in all other cases. The judges, again, are so far connected with the legislative department as often to attend and participate in its deliberations, though not admitted to a legislative vote.
If it is destructive to liberty for executive power to come to dominate the legislative and the judicial, how much more destructive is it for unchecked legislative power to be usurped by the slightest of majorities in a proportionately very small governing body such as ours, relative to its population? It was either Hamilton or Madison who wrote:
The third charge against the House of Representatives is, that it will be taken from that class of citizens which will have least sympathy with the mass of the people, and be most likely to aim at an ambitious sacrifice of the many to the aggrandizement of the few.
The author went on to dismiss such concerns, but in Federalist #62, then defended those same concerns in making the case for a senate.
[I]t may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
So here we see that one of the more generous advantages to having a bicameral legislature is that one house of Congress may serve as a check upon the excesses of the other. In a unicameral legislature, what is there to prevent legislative excesses but the dubious whims of the majority, which by way of its superior numbers would be free to ignore the wishes of the public through the minority party? Once again, Federalist #62:
First. It is a misfortune incident to republican government, though in a less degree than to other governments, that those who administer it may forget their obligations to their constituents, and prove unfaithful to their important trust. In this point of view, a senate, as a second branch of the legislative assembly, distinct from, and dividing the power with, a first, must be in all cases a salutary check on the government. It doubles the security to the people, by requiring the concurrence of two distinct bodies in schemes of usurpation or perfidy, where the ambition or corruption of one would otherwise be sufficient. This is a precaution founded on such clear principles, and now so well understood in the United States, that it would be more than superfluous to enlarge on it. I will barely remark, that as the improbability of sinister combinations will be in proportion to the dissimilarity in the genius of the two bodies, it must be politic to distinguish them from each other by every circumstance which will consist with a due harmony in all proper measures, and with the genuine principles of republican government.
Secondly. The necessity of a senate is not less indicated by the propensity of all single and numerous assemblies to yield to the impulse of sudden and violent passions, and to be seduced by factious leaders into intemperate and pernicious resolutions. Examples on this subject might be cited without number; and from proceedings within the United States, as well as from the history of other nations. But a position that will not be contradicted, need not be proved. All that need be remarked is, that a body which is to correct this infirmity ought itself to be free from it, and consequently ought to be less numerous. It ought, moreover, to possess great firmness, and consequently ought to hold its authority by a tenure of considerable duration.
Even Hamilton and Madison recognized the dangers inherent in a unicameral legislature — the heat and desires of the moment can and all too often does lead to legislative acts that usurp the power of the people to the benefit of those whose ambitions are diametrically opposed to the common good. See Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and Spain, and other dictatorships of the 20th Century that sought to destroy democratic government through the use of arguments in favor of political expediency. A more recent argument, however, on the dangers of political expediency was written last October in the Lanka Gazette:
Although the two main parties continued to blame one another they often lured this Federal Party when it suited them politically, conceding to their rabid racial demands thereby strengthening and nurturing the separatist agenda.
Does that seem familiar to you? Granted, the Lanka Gazette op-ed deals with Sri Lanka’s propping up of what the writer calls a terrorist organization, blaming the machinations of the two major political parties in trying to one-up each other for the growth of a radicalized, racist minority. But here we can see parallels in American politics, for aren’t the extreme right-wing policies of the Republican Party and its counterparts in the Democrat Party the greatest source of terroristic acts against the people? Does the far right not pander to the basest fears and prejudices present in humankind in order to deceive and bully the public into acquiescence? And do you truly desire a legislative body dominated by these savages to have unfettered power to ram its plutocratic agenda down the throats of the public? If so, then go join the Republican Party, because you’re in no way progressive — you’re not even remotely liberal.
The bottom line is that for the sake of shortsighted and dubious political convenience, some alleged members of the left are willing to embrace a far right position, and their arguments for doing so are dishonest. Worse, if they get their way, they will have handed the far right yet another victory in its war against America.



73 Comments

Recommended. I’m still on the fence as to whether the Senate today is an impediment or a facilitator of democracy, but this viewpoint deserves to be heard as well as the other.
Michael, I think you need to start at the starting line and define for us, in simplest terms, the concept of a democracy itself.
It’s already been done by far more learned and experienced persons than I. They wrote a document called the Constitution of the United States. They also wrote such documents as the federalist Papers, which argue against the Articles of Confederation and on behalf of the Constitution.
I always thought that 50+1 was the purest expression of popular will….
I guess some highly learned and landed doods had a different notion.
I don’t want to fight about whether we should have the filibuster again. Last year and in 2009 there were various posts advocating its abolition, its reform, and its retention on many of the grounds you’ve stated above. I don’t think my earlier arguments for abolition are touched in any way by your arguments here and I’ll just leave it to readers, if they’re interested, to search some of those old posts and the alternative view in more detail.
What I do want to comment on, however, is your statement:
First, while proposals to get rid of the filibuster may be dangerous, I think it’s a bridge too far to say that the arguments for these proposals are dangerous. The arguments involved are just the reasoning of people who think that the filibuster is anti-democratic and that it has caused far more harm than good in the history of the United States. It is vital in a democracy to be able to have access to arguments for different policy viewpoints. Arguments are not “dangerous.” They are the lifeblood of democracy. They allow us to arrive at measured decisions about what we should. I think it’s wrong to characterize the arguments of opponents as opposed to their policies as “dangerous” and that it it detracts from the flow of debate.
You also characterized arguments in favor of the filibuster as “dishonest.” That’s a very broad statement. Have you examined all arguments for abolishing the filibuster? If not, how can you characterize all of them as dishonest? Also, what are your criteria for evaluating whether an argument is dishonest?
An argument can be mistaken without being dishonest. It can be logically inconsistent without being dishonest. What makes an argument dishonest? Let’s look at your statement:
I’m sorry, but I don’t think that quote shows that the filibuster is Constitutional. The Constitution is the fundamental law of the land. While it doesn’t explicitly say that the Senate is to do business by majority rule. It does say that “. . . a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business . . .” It also says that: “The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided,” which certainly implies that the Constitution assumes majority rule in the Senate. In addition, super-majority rule is provided by the Constitution explicitly, where the framers intended super-majority rule. Finally, the first Congresses has majority rule in the Senate, confirming that reading of the intent of the framers. the filibuster did not appear until later.
Now, you point out above that the Constitution gives each House the power to set its own rules of procedure and this is clearly true. But the question here is whether it gives each House power to implement proceedings that violate constitutional constraints. I don’t think it does. So, what this comes down to is whether the Senate can require super-majorities to make certain decisions, where the Constitution itself doesn’t specify that super-majorities are necessary.
My belief is that this limitation of the power of the majority in the Senate is not Constitutional and that hence that the filibuster is not Constitutional. Now, it’s clear that the Supreme Court will keep its nose out of the Senate’s business and will never rule on whether the filibuster is Constitutional or not. It’s also clear that the Senate up to the present believes that the Constitution doesn’t limit their procedures as I’ve suggested it does. But neither of these facts makes my argument dishonest.
I would also point out that the Senate is free at any time, to change its rules and to abolish the filibuster. The procedure involved has been called the “nuclear option,” and more recently “the constitutional option.” In using that option some member of the Senate will make a point of order appealing to the Chair that the 60-vote requirement for shutting off debate is unconstitutional and that only a simple majority is necessary. That point of order will then be settled by a majority vote of the Senate, and the filibuster may well be gone forever.
At that point, the Senate will have decided that the filibuster is unconstitutional. If that happens, our view of the filibuster will change over night, because, in the end it is the Senate which will decide what is Constitutional in this areas.
So, why is this view of things and the arguments stated in connection with it “dishonest.” I’m not conscious of any dishonesty. So, what makes you so sure it’s a “dishonest” argument?
As for your other arguments, you know very well that there are counter-arguments and that some people think they are very good. But as I said before I don’t want to cover old ground on all the issues, but just to raise questions about your views that there are “dangerous arguments,” and “dishonest arguments” involved here. There may be dangerous proposals, and some arguing against the filibuster may be dishonest, but some arguing for retaining it are dishonest as well. I think it isn’t so easy to tell whether an argument is dishonest or not. I don’t think you’ve shown above that every argument for getting rid of the filibuster is dishonest, or even that an argument based on the Constitution above. So, I’d suggest that instead of using that kind of rhetoric it may be more effective just to say that you favor retaining the filibuster, that you think getting rid of it may be dangerous because an important barrier to tyranny would be gone, and then going ahead with your arguments.
Finally, I’m not offering these comments to appeal for civility because of the events in Tucson. In fact, I think that false civility can be very damaging. However, I don’t think we ought to be arguing based on ad hominems, name-calling, or labeling. Maybe I’m wrong in my views and maybe Jon is wrong as well. But mistaken though he may be, Jon has consistently supported abolition of the filibuster and he’s made clear that he opposes it because it illegitimately frustrates majority rule. So, whether he’s wrong or not, I don’t think it’s proper to characterize his view as anti-democracy.
Is it not possible that a venerable writ penned in 1787 – the number of States, size of population, distances and speed of travel, etc., might make it a less then optimal reference point, to a modern society?
What if we had just accepted the Model T as the best possible model of transportation, and let it stand at that? Because while amendments may represent the improvements made to the constitution, similar to those that gave us the Prius – they do not account for the Airbus.
All I can say is that there is something deeply, deeply, flawed about the way our government works.It does not appear to represent the interests of the majority of the public at all. Yet, it is quite evident that the minority elites are making out as bandits.
This is the fix that is needed, and I don’t believe that getting into the weeds with the filibuster is going to accomplish much either way. I think you marginally made that case above…
Not when popular will results in half the nation suffering. Believe it or not, the founders actually believed that all Americans should have representation, not just one group.
The Constitution applies regardless of what year it is. If that’s not to your liking, there is a process for changing it through amendments. You don’t get to simply toss it out or ignore it because it is inconvenient to you. If this was a nation of you and only you, then a Constitution would be irrelevant. But it’s a nation of more than three hundred million people, all of whom are entitled to certain unalienable rights. Who are you to say that because a sliver of politicians, not even representative of the public, should be able to do whatever it wants?
Let me put it to you this way: if the House of Representatives were to pass a law tomorrow mandating that all Muslims be removed to concentration camps to be tortured, worked to exhaustion, and ultimately executed, and that law passed by only one vote, would you therefore be in total agreement with it because, hey! this is a mob-rule democracy and the will of the “majority” HAS to be honored no matter what? And so what if most of the nation is wholly opposed to it? It’s not like our opinion matters, right? Because a majority of the tiniest fraction of oligarchs rendered its will upon the rest of us, and there oughtn’t be ANY check whatsoever on that at all.
That’s the argument you’re making, by the way. Why you don’t admit that is sad.
Odd, these points coming from someone who thinks that DNC Chair Tim Kaine is correct that there will be no primary challenge to Obama because why would Kaine lie. In Kwiatkowski’s book, an argument against what he thinks correct is a lie (and vice versa). He has this habit of calling people liars in place of solid arguments. So you are hereby condemned.
But just to be safe, I suggest you take down the “Beware of dog!” sign on your front lawn and replace it with a “Beware of dangerous arguments!” sign lest innocents be injured.
So if 2/3 of the Senate passed such a law, then you would be okay with it?
Those learned and experienced persons also declared that slaves were 3/5 of a human being. Funny that as an avowed independent, you have this serious authoritarian streak.
Then you are not talking about democracy, but the rule of the elites, or some Straussian model there off.
“Believe it or not, the founders actually believed that all Americans should have representation.”
Not. Women and slaves did not have the vote, unless you consider “representation” adequate with husbands and parents representing women and slave owners representing the interests of their slaves.
“Why you don’t admit that is sad.”
I’m saddened by your sadness, but mostly your inability to keep a firm hand on the reins of your logic.
Each and every argument made in favor of abolishing the filibuster has been nothing short of total dishonesty. You know this for a fact. As I pointed out in my entry, there is nothing unconstitutional in the Senate rules regarding the filibuster. That legislative body has the right to write its own rules for procedure so as to fulfill its function. This is not up for debate. It’s written in the Constitution, and until or unless that provision is amended out (look up the process by which it can be done), it stays whether you like it or not.
Also not up for debate is the recognition by the founders that yes, the heat of the moment can and often does result in policies that end up doing great harm to the nation. The passage of the USA PATRIOT Act in 2001, following the 9/11 attacks, is a perfect example of how hysteria, driven by political opportunism, can lead a nation wracked by terror to infringe upon the civil liberties of the public. Indeed, the entire political climate of the last decade has been one long clusterfuck of encroachments on civil liberties, with the result being that the vast majority of Americans are now less safe than ever before, with the threat coming from the far right elements that control our government. Again, you know this for a fact.
Civility does not apply when those calling for it refuse to engage in it themselves. Facts are facts, and it is a cold hard fact that there is no legitimate, honest reason for eliminating the filibuster or getting rid of the Senate. It’s based on short-sighted foolishness, and any attempt to rationalize, excuse, or misconstrue this fact is not being honest. If that offends you, then you need to re-evaluate your position, because it’s the wrong one.
47 odd years of that form of ‘minority protection’ by filibuster, discounted the plight of another minority.
Guess it depends on the definition of democratic ‘minority’.
No, Jeff, a lie is a lie. Simply because an argument runs contrary to my own does not make it a lie. But if someone is obviously being deceitful in presenting an argument, then yes, I am certainly going to call that person on it. You took a statement by the chairman of the DNC that there isn’t likely going to be a primary challenge to Obama and twisted it to mean that there will be, without citing a shred of proof to support your argument. Evidence does go along way toward proving a point, and if you want to prove yours, you need more than wishful thinking to do it.
“Each and every argument made in favor of abolishing the filibuster has been nothing short of total dishonesty. You know this for a fact. As I pointed out in my entry, there is nothing unconstitutional in the Senate rules regarding the filibuster.”
~~~Edited by Moderator~~~ You may argue that the filibuster is constitutional, but there are other arguments against it that have nothing to do with the constitution, per se.
There are any number of progressive measures the last Congress could have passed were it not for the filibuster, including the public option in healthcare, and Obama would have been stripped of his excuse that he didn’t have 60 votes. You may contend that this argument is outweighed by other points such as the tyranny of the majority.
But on your cloud, your every thought is a fact and so to disagree is dishonest by definition. Being entitled to your own dictionary is not banned in the Constitution, but it still has consequences.
~~~Mod Note: Do not call other commenters names. Argue facts only~~~
You are a Straussian, I have little doubt of that. How you manage to see your way to the Greens is baffling.
Missling, you don’t even know what democracy is. Democracy is not mob rule, nor is it a tiny sliver of the population imposing its will on the rest of the nation. What democracy is, missling, is a system where everyone’s voice is heard and heeded, and wherein the rights of all are respected. A democracy cannot exist when there are those whose rights may be trampled upon simply because it’s considered convenient to do so. That’s what dictatorships are made of.
Again, you ~~~Edited by Moderator~~~! I only argued that Kaine’s statement didn’t refute the possibility that there would be. If you’re going to throw such rhetoric around, you should work on your literacy skills.
And we fought a war and passed amendments rectifying that wrong, something you know for a fact. Again, there is a process for amending the Constitution to suit the needs of the time. But that does not mean that it should be ignored simply because it is inconvenient. It has to apply all of the time, or it applies none of the time. And if the Constitution is found wanting, it can and should be amended. But don’t you dare try to argue that because the original document was written centuries ago or that it isn’t 100% perfect means that it can be ignored at a whim.
Are you really going to make me go back and quote your own words to you? because obviously you don’t even remember them. I have to get to the food bank so I can eat the rest of this week. But when I get back, this discussion is going to continue.
Point taken. It might be a good idea to apply that to Kwiatkowski’s entire diary. After all, if I say that something someone says is a lie, that does say by implication that such person uttering that lie is a liar.
I was only doing tit for tat.
“this discussion is going to continue.”
As in the sound of one hand clapping.
to Mod:
I do apologize for lowering the level of discourse. I was deliberately employing the methodology employed in other comments, but did not take into account that there might be collateral damage in doing so. Sorry.
“Democracy is not mob rule”
Let’s see now, with one dispensatory gesture you have taken upon yourself to dispense with the public by labeling it a mob?
Instead, you insist that the self proclaimed ‘greatest deliberative body in the universe’, sould be the arbiter of what is or isn’t good for the people. Well, I’ll take my chances with true democracy. At least I will know that whatever misery befalls us all, will stand a chance of being corrected when the proof of their fallacy will not turn out to be such a great pudding. At that point, the people having experienced their own folly, will choose another path.
In your democracy, that path will not be chosen, because the Senate, as must be quite obvious, even to yourself, does not respect the will of the ‘mob’. And the list of their failures is getting longer with each of their votes.
They seem to have excised the third sister of fate out of their grand plans…
“But don’t you dare” ?
Has Mother failed to remind you take your meds this morning, Michael?
You are spouting facts and fluffing the feathers of your ‘knowledge’. That’s an interesting spectacle, but you show no understing of either.
One problem I see with the various arguments in this thread is that there is great lip service given to the Constitution by all of the parties here and in the elected offices, but the Constitution has been so hollowed out by so many laws that it is really no longer in effect. The PATRIOT Act did away with so much, and obama’s hit list, and the secret listening in by the nsa, and the list goes on. There really doesn’t need to be a filibuster because the dims are committed to governing as repugs and have no plans to operate as a real democracy. Anyway, the election of the Pres is not democratic and was not intended to be so.
“by all of the parties here”
I thought that I was rather uncomplimentary of the system as such, must brush up on transferring my thoughts to ‘paper’ : -)
And you do cut to the core fallacy of the premise, thank you, BearC.
Perhaps our government is flawed because it is a direct reflection of our society, which is certainly deeply flawed at this moment in time. Structural changes in the government wouldn’t overcome these deep and basic flaws in our society, which would continue to be reflected in our government no matter how it is structured.
The Constitution does not establish a democracy, it establishes a republic.
The Constitution provides for Senate and that gives states representation, not population.
The US Senate is the one entity in US government that is exempted from the one person, one vote standard in electing membership. Everything else must be one person, one vote. See the former New York City Board of Estimate for an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Board_of_Estimate
Any constitutional reform that makes the Senate one person, one vote elected democratic, perhaps something six year terms elected at large allocated out of the 100 seats by population while guaranteeing each state at least one Senator.
Of course, none of this is possible because enough small states benefit from the Senate system that it is not going anywhere. What we’ve got are small states that are all tax takers, Texas barely excepted ($1.05 in for every $1 back), that are dominating government and forcing those of us in tax payer states, California gets back $0.78 for each $1 we send to DC, to subsidize their idiocy.
There is no political solution to this.
-marc
“There is no political solution to this.”
I’ll be one of a dozen here to agree with you. And, I’ll agree with you on a trans partisan effort. Now what?
While you actually make some valid points regarding excuses by Democrats for their inability to pass legislation in the Senate, I must take exception to the issue presented in the title to this post.
One of the concerns of many of the founders was to ensure the rights of a minority, that minority being property owners, and that property included people (slaves). Politics being little different then from now, the issue was presented as the rights of small states as opposed to the more populous states. This led to the Great Compromise resulting in the current bicameral legislature.
After the convention approved the Great Compromise, Madison wrote: “It seems now to be pretty well understood that the real difference of interests lies not between the large and small but between the northern and southern states. The institution of slavery and its consequences form the line of discrimination.”
http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras2777/amgov/slavery2.html
The Senate was the vehicle southern states used to oppose the abolition of slavery. (Even a hundred years after the slaves were freed, the Senate was used to obstruct equal rights for their descendants.) This original reason for the existence of the Senate has, thankfully, become moot. The Senate has now become an archaic remnant of a bygone era.
While I understand the concept of majority rule with minority rights, I really don’t see the current Senate as a guarantor of either. We have had over 200 years from which to draw examples of your thesis that the Senate acts as a brake on “dubious whims of the majority” of the House – where are your examples of such?
On the other hand, we have many examples of “dubious whims of the majority” being passed by both houses, e.g., the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, the USA PATRIOT Act, the Espionage Act of 1917, the list goes on and on. I see no evidence in recent history of the Senate actually refusing to pass such dubious acts. Please provide your specific instances.
Jon Walker made some very good points which you have failed to address, e.g., why should Senators representing a tiny minority residing in rural states, 16% of the population, have an equal number of votes as Senators representing the 84% residing elsewhere? How is this democratic?
Finally, I will agree with some of the commenters that this is all very academic (but interesting, at least to some of us).
Well, democratic republic, seeing as it is a mix of the two systems.
This is the entry YOU posted, Jeff, in which YOU quoted the following from the Daily Caller:
And again, without so much as a shred of evidence to back it up, you dismissed the dismissal of the DNC chairman as “whistl[ing] past the graveyard”. You boasted that your movement, which you admit is small and weak, is alive and well. Except you have no candidate to run against Obama from within the Democrat Party. You’ve stated on at least one occasion that efforts to run a strong third party challenge, efforts that include reaching out to disaffected progressive Democrats, as being in competition with yours. So obviously there isn’t a reading comprehension problem, not on my end anyway.
But all the attacks on me won’t alter certain unalterable facts. And the fact is that while wishful thinking and side show calls to dismantle a key check upon runaway right-wing power may look good, and make you feel better, they really don’t solve the fundamental problem before us: that the Democrats could have done everything they promised to do all along, but have so far refused because they serve the exact same corporations Republicans do. These people are laughing at us on the left, and somehow you think they’re trembling in fear. But you have to give these right-wing politicians the real prospect of losing power to the left in order to get them to tremble.
This isn’t a game, Jeff, nor is it about you or me. What this is about is trying to fight back against a right-wing movement that has nothing but the complete and total subjugation of this nation, this world, and the people in it as its ultimate goal. And if you’re not willing to take this matter seriously, then I’m afraid you’re of no use to the left-wing movement (such as it is) at all.
I can hardly be a Straussian when I never heard of the guy. I joined the Greens because their views most closely match my own.
When arguing on matters pertaining to the Constitution, you do want to make sure your arguments pertain to the Constitution. Otherwise, you’ve got no argument at all. Again, if the GOP could get its agenda passed during the Bush-Cheney dictatorship despite the existence of the filibuster, then obviously it wasn’t the filibuster that has prevented progressive legislation from being passed. Otherwise you’d expect to look at what the Republicans’ list of accomplishments and see it as very short. On the contrary, the list of Republican accomplishments during the Bush-Cheney regime is quite long, even though the filibuster was still in existence. This is not something you can deny honestly. It’s a matter of record. Go look things up at GovTrack.us if you refuse to take my word for it.
No, the problem is not now nor has it ever been the filibuster. progressive legislation has not been passed because the Democrats don’t want to pass progressive legislation. And it wasn’t only Republicans joining in with filibuster threats; it was DEMOCRATS who joined in blocking progressive policy goals. THE DEMOCRATS, not the Republicans, are the reason progressive goals have not been achieved. As long as you continue to blame something the Republicans never had the numbers during the Bush-Cheney years to overcome yet managed to get around anyway, and refuse to see that the problem is the Democrat party having thoroughly and, it seems, permanently sold itself to corporate interests, then you can eliminate the Senate, reduce the House of Representatives to the point where it is comprised of only a select number of Democrats, and you still will not have gotten any progressive victories, because it’s the Democrats who are to blame for them not having been achieved by now.
Wake up, will you?
Don’t attribute things to me I never wrote.
You don’t need to have heard of Leo Strauss to be a Straussian. It’s not just an ‘ideology’, it’s the way one relates to others within a putative democracy.
As for this left-wing movement schtick:
1) I’d follow a Roger Nash Baldwin (civil libertarian – oops), before I’d join your movement.
2) Way to create a movement, just look at the thread, alienating everyone around, admonishing them, and wagging your middle finger with “don’t you dare” b.s., well, – good fucking luck, Michael.
what have I misattributed?
You may be interested to know that John Adams’ wife, Abigail, was a women’s suffragist who wrote to her husband on more than one occasion on the prospect of granting women the vote. And many of the founders, though they took the coward’s way out when the issue of slavery came up in drafting the Declaration of Independence, did support the eventual abolition of that horrible institution.
But here again is an example of the consequences of acting on the basis of what is politically convenient, as opposed to what is right. In the short term, the founders got their coalition of signers to agree to rebelling against England. But the consequence of that short term gain was ultimately a bloody war that tore the nation apart before slavery was finally abolished, blacks granted full rights and citizenship as well as the right to vote, and so on. And because of political cowardice in post-reconstruction years, blacks continued to be oppressed as Southern sympathizers won political office and formed terrorist organizations not unlike today’s “tea party” (e.g., the KKK) to intimidate legislators into compliance with their policies.
The Senate doesn’t guarantee the rights of the minority; rather, it was created to serve as a check upon just that which I have written about. That it no longer functions as it should has nothing to do with the filibuster. You can end it now and you still would not get any progressive legislation passed with Obama in office, because neither Obama or the Democrats are even remotely progressive — almost all of them are either extreme conservatives or tepid liberals too cowed by their party’s leadership to risk their careers opposing right-wing policy. The problem is not in the Senate, or in the filibuster. Those are red herrings. The problem is that the Democrats have morphed over the last thirty years into Republicans, and the Republicans themselves have dropped all pretenses of being anything other than Nazi-wannabes. Until you alter THAT situation, none of this eliminate-the-filibuster nonsense is going to work.
In answer to Jon’s question, the reason we allow that 16% or whatever was quoted to have its say is the same reason we allow the remaining 84% to have its say: because in this country, everyone’s rights must be respected. This isn’t rocket science. Either everyone has rights and a say in how this country is governed, or no one does. By its own inherent design flaws, Greek democracy ultimately failed because it did not allow for the rights of all to be respected or preserved. No one has claimed that ours is a perfect system, or that it ever has been. But the founders were prescient enough to learn from the failure of the Roman republic and the Greek democracy, as well as tap into their own era’s failings, to create a system in which the rights of all could be protected. Again, if everyone is not free, then no one is free. We can’t have it both ways.
“Those are red herrings. The problem is that the Democrats have morphed over the last thirty years into Republicans, and the Republicans themselves have dropped all pretenses of being anything other than Nazi-wannabes. Until you alter THAT situation, none of this eliminate-the-filibuster nonsense is going to work.”
Well, than rather than pissing about the filibuster (which either way doesn’t matter as you point out), take your meds, shelve the Constitution – as it doesn’t apply – and write about the essential dysfunction of the system in it’s current iteration, – ok?
Interesting note on Abigail Adams.
You say above: “The Senate doesn’t guarantee the rights of the minority; rather, it was created to serve as a check upon just that which I have written about. That it no longer functions as it should has nothing to do with the filibuster.”
My comment was not about the filibuster, rather that the Senate essentially serves no useful purpose. I do not consider obstruction of the will of the majority to be a legitimate purpose in a democracy. Minority rights can be guaranteed in other ways, i.e., by the judiciary, and poor legislation can be avoided by use of the veto. My points are not about current office-holders, although you may have some valid points in that regard.
I don’t see that the Senate acts to ensure that any rights of the populace are respected. Can you substantiate that the Senate does, in fact, do so?
You have also failed to list any instances of the Senate actually exercising its alleged differences from the House in any meaningful way. The Senate simply adds a layer of unrepresentative obstruction to an already compromised (due to the power of moneyed interests) system of government.
yup, the Senate is a check on democracy. Cannot have to much of it, lest it interferes with profit extraction of the well heeled minority. It’s a link to an antiquated past still bathed in the aura of aristocracy.
We need the third sister of fate back, the Senates longevity should be snipped, and terminated.
You wrote: “You took a statement by the chairman of the DNC that there isn’t likely going to be a primary challenge to Obama and twisted it to mean that there will be.”
When you say “twisted it,” the “it” is apparently Kaine’s statement. But as you say, “you dismissed the dismissal of the DNC chairman.” Indeed I did. No twisting was involved.
By the way, you’re rather far off topic. I wasn’t trying to raise the primary issue here, but rather your peculiar understanding of truth and fact and lying. You’ve clarified it sufficiently for all of us.
Jeff, you’re painting yourself into a really tiny corner. What rationale have you for dismissing Kaine’s statements? None. And I’m not the one who decided to veer off topic. That’s on you. But since you insist…
Actually, no, I’m not gonna rise to your bait. You want to believe things that are never going to happen will somehow happen just by you wishing for them. I want to actually make things happen. I really can’t be bothered to waste my time and energy trying to convince someone who doesn’t take politics seriously to take them seriously. Don’t bother posting comments on my threads expecting a response from now on.
Ah, but acting as a check upon the legislative excesses (and evils) of the other chamber is a useful purpose. The argument thus far against the Senate may be likened to arguing that because a workman refuses to properly use the tools at his disposal, it must therefore be the tools that are the problem. In fact, it’s the workman who refuses to use the tools properly that is the problem, and replacing or getting rid of the tools will not solve it because you haven’t replaced the workman.
The Senate worked in 2005 when Bush wanted to gut Social Security. That it hasn’t since then is no fault of the Senate, rather, it is the fault of the current crop of senators.
The only man who can hijack his own diary!
You may liken it as you did, and you did.
I liken the Senate itself to being the tool of the minority power elites. On most occasions it accomplishes the task its overlords set before it. In 2005 the elites didn’t get their pound of flesh, let’s see how they will fare through Nov. 2012.
I don’t really understand why majority rule is so much more dangerous and anti-democratic than wealthy vested minority rule.
Considering how the Senate is already configured to be hilariously anti-majoritarian (2 seats per state regardless of size). I really don’t understand why it’s an improvement to make it significantly more so. You might as well setup the Senate as the inverse of the House. The less populous your state the more Senators you get.
That’s effectively what’s being advocated here.
It’s fucking ridiculous on its face, but whatever. Not going to be reasoned out of a position you weren’t reasoned into and all that.
A few things:
First, the Framers didn’t contemplate the rise of political parties, which is to say the rise of partisanship, which cuts across institutional lines and creates a quasi-parliamentary system like we have today. So it’s a fiction to say that the Senate is a functioning check on the House. Sometimes it is, but not as much as originally intended.
Second, it’s easy for Republicans to invoke the filibuster if they loathe the very idea of government. It’s much harder for the Democrats to do the same if they care about rebuilding public confidence in Congress.
Yeoman’s work, Michael – in the post and in comments.
I’ve said my piece repeatedly on this general subject – like Michael, it seems clear (contrary, perhaps, to certain imputations about his views), I see a great deal wrong with today’s Senate practices, as distinct from the Senate’s design – so I’ll just throw a few points into the mix, to add to his.
By this stage of the game, any disagreement about “the filibuster” which does not define the writer’s understanding of what “the filibuster” is, is doomed to incoherence and pointless bickering.
Also, overlooking how the daily business of the Senate floor is now routinely suspended by both Parties, without benefit of formal recess, by way of the quorum call in an empty Chamber that doesn’t call the quorum – a convenient, but insidious and abused practice that the Majority Leader alone can end at any time, except that it would reduce his power – misses how the Senate’s operations have been increasingly corrupted by Party-driven secrecy, without benefit of any rule changes, or even predetermined purpose. [A crucial fact: If there isn't a fake quorum call suspending the Senate's business (unless and until waived by unanimous consent, or by the Majority Leader giving the Clerk the sign to return to live quorum calls), only ongoing floor debate can prevent the Presiding Officer from putting the pending question, including pending amendments, to a simple-majority vote of the Senate.]
Underscoring Michael’s point that “Each and every [recent] argument made [by Democratic Senators] in favor of abolishing the [so-called] filibuster has been nothing short of total dishonesty” is the fact that no Democratic Senator can publicly admit that “filibuster” as they’re using the word actually means “cloture,” because the Democrats, as the current majority Party, are responsible for filing the record-breaking number of cloture motions in recent years, in the absence of debating filibusters. [Those of us not invested in shielding the Democratic Party from the consequences of its actions, on the other hand, should try to avoid employing such deceptive and confusing word play; we can say "cloture" when we mean "cloture," and "filibuster" when we mean that long-lost parliamentary tactic of physically-taxing floor debate (or some form of minority objection(s) to majority requests to waive regular order).]
If the significance of that last paragraph escapes anyone, it’s probably because they don’t realize (since the media apparently doesn’t know it, or won’t report it) that only the majority Party files optional cloture motions in the Senate (and yes, they have their unspoken reasons for doing so – avoiding public debate high among them). In turn, only cloture motions can impose a supermajority threshold (and debate-free delay) on the Senate, in place of its simple-majority regular order, for the passage of legislation or confirmation of nominees.
So long as Senators continue to get away with their deceit, aided by a tuned-out media and partisan bloggers, their self-serving deceptions are only likely to deepen – as anyone reading through a few of the pending rule change resolutions can recognize. Those resolutions – even when not offered as part of a disguised nuclear option – apparently hope to impose and institutionalize a form of supermajority cloture rule on the Senate (cloture was created in 1917 to allow the Senate to overcome the rare, overdone debating filibuster), evidently in order to avoid any future risk of the return of simple-majority regular order and, especially, public debate to the Senate Chamber (where floor debate and Senator-directed, as opposed to Party-directed, business, as in the Speaker-dominated House, is seemingly doomed).
Regarding the institution of the Senate itself: To perhaps state part of Michael’s argument another way, in the beginning of our Republic (aka, of our “representative democracy”), the power of the individual states was jealously guarded from usurpation by the “national” government (and not just because of the preferences of slave-holding Southern states). Hence, Madison’s need (see Federalist 39) to persuade the states that “federal” power had been carefully balanced with “national” power, in the design of the new Constitution’s government.
Madison described one complaint about the proposed Constitution by its opponents, against which he was arguing, this way: “They ought, with equal care, to have preserved the federal form, which regards the union as a confederacy of sovereign States; instead of which, they have framed a national government, which regards the union as a consolidation of the States.”
The Senate, then composed of members appointed by state legislatures, was a key plank in Madison’s argument refuting that “consolidation” charge. As Madison summed up, in Federalist 39:
It’s quite apparent that you know a great deal about the constitution, and I’ve read some of your excellent diaries on this topic.
The problem that many of us perceive is that for one reason or another it has not served the people of the US all that well.
Even if we push off the failure away from this venerable writ and onto the actors, intuition alone insinuates, that a manual for societal organization largely composed of yeomen and written by men who went to work in horse and buggy, may not sufficiently account for the exigencies of the space age.
I think that Nathan, above, nailed it with regards to Senate as being representative of the sort of democratic ideas held by the citizenry, as opposed by the landed gentry who authored this writ. That alone makes it suspect, imo.
For me to accept your assessment based on your vast knowledge of the constitution, would compel me to also accept the decisions of our constitutional lawyer in chief, arguably rooted in said knowledge. Intimate knowledge of a dead letter, sheds no light on new context, and affords no enlightening conclusions.
While your insight assiduously confined itself to the historical aspect of the constitution, Michael’s tack is to make us believe that it is a immutably relevant
to 21st century’s America. They used to hang horse thieves, and burn witches, among many things we no longer do.
A venerable writ, and rather insufficient to the task at hand, just as the Senate.
pax vobiscum.
You say that abolishing the Senate will lead to minority rights being trampled upon. That implies infringements against rights presumably guaranteed under your constitution. That is a legal document. Any law passed by a unicameral legislature that was clearly infringing on constitutionally protected rights of (all) citizens can be challenged in the courts, right up to the Supreme Court. The Senate does anything but protect minority rights. It serves instead to halt legislation wanted by the majority and not in any way infringing on the rights of the (all) citizens. Minorities, majorities have nothing to do with this argument. It is about the rights of all people guaranteed by legal documents. Surely?
It seems like a permanent solutuion to a temporary problem.
The Brits got rid of their House of Lords. We should too. The Senate was set up for elite rule. Sheldon Wolin in “Democracy Inc” talks about the undemocratic makeup of the Senate. One aspect being that Senators only have to run every six years instead of two years.
Harper’s had a piece in 2004 called “What Democracy? The case for abolishing the United States Senate”
http://harpers.org/archive/2004/05/0080035
The president is not elected directly, rather by the Electoral College: Republic.
The Senate was not elected at all and is now elected by means other than one person, one vote: Republic.
The House of Representatives is elected popularly but is REPRESENTATIVE: Republic.
The word democracy is not applicable to our form of government which was put into place specifically to prevent democracy.
Direct action or failing that second amendment remedies, that of confronting government oppression by force, not killing electeds you don’t like, are all that is left.
I’d like to see the blue cities where we are strong and they are weak choke off the flow of cash to the central government.
California could use our money back right about now, as we are seeing our children consigned to educational mediocrity and worse in favor of subsidizing right wing hicks in the flyover who hate us for everything we stand for.
Taxation with skewed, antidemocratic representation sucks too.
-marc
Yet another person looking to ascribe to me beliefs and statements that aren’t mine. Again, I never heard of Staruss until you brought him up, so I am not a Straussian. Being one indicates that I would have some awareness of his ideas and that I follow them. Since I don’t, I cannot therefore be one of his followers. You’ve been out of your mind since you began replying to this thread. Sit down before you fall down.
So you’re perfectly content with a VERY slim majority of a VERY tiny fraction of the population imposing its will on the rest of us without any check on that power whatsoever. And you call that democracy, as though there is anything democratic about leaving, literally, most of the nation to suffer because a majority of a tiny minority MUST have its way.
And the sad part is that you don’t really believe this on its merits; you believe it because FOR THE MOMENT, a bunch of senators who don’t represent you and never will refused to use the power they had to overcome a filibuster when they had it to pass progressive legislation they were never going to pass anyway no matter what you want them to do. In short, you bought wholesale into a lie used to excuse recalcitrance on their part. Take away the filibuster, or even the entire Senate itself (the latter of which requires a Constitutional amendment), and you still won’t get any progressive legislation passed because you will have done nothing to alter the political makeup of the politicians running the country. All you will have accomplished is to make it easier for them to screw you and the rest of us over. This is terribly short-sighted and foolish thinking on the part of you who would end democracy for the sake of convenience. You’re exactly the type of group the founders were justifiably wary of when they created the Senate in the first place, the very sort who happily trades essential liberties for short term gain. And the consequences are that others, if not you, suffer for that transitory gain, which in the end means everyone suffers — including you.
No one ever suggested they foresaw everything, certainly not the details of future events. But even during the founders’ time, there were political factions such as the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists, which very much fit the spirit if not the strictly technical definition of political parties. What I don’t think the founders foresaw was just how completely large business interests would literally buy the government. This is not because of partisan political parties, but because the political parties themselves were bought out by large corporate interests, so that now there no longer is any significant partisanship in Washington. What you see is what Jesse Ventura described: pro-wrestling theater where the factions pretend to hate each other on camera, but when those are off and the crowds have dispersed, the factions are sharing dinner and working together to undermine the nation. That kind of problem won’t be solved by making it easier for the corrupt politicians to ram their bosses’ agenda down our throats.
The filibuster is there so that the opposition can serve the interests of its constituency. Like it or not, that’s what politicians are supposed to do: serve the interests of their constituencies. Again, the problem is the politicians, not the institution they abuse.
Interesting observation and analysis, and definitely worth thinking over (I certainly am thinking it over). Thanks for the contribution.
Again you attribute things to me I never wrote. You love to mischaracterize my statements. Why? I have pointed out repeatedly that the Constitution is not a static document, that it can be and has been amended to meed the changing needs of the time. I have also pointed out that a process does exist for amending the Constitution. So why you keep ascribing to me the belief that the Constitution as originally written is inviolate is puzzling, unless in your desperate attempt to defend your own indefensible position you have chosen to be deliberately deceitful, in which case your honest participation in this debate was over before it began.
And when the SCOTUS has been so thoroughly corrupted as it has been, what then is the solution? Yes, the rights of the minority will be trampled upon just as they are now. But the difference is that it will be even easier to do so.
Britain was never a democracy, a point the Harper’s piece seems to have overlooked. Wolin does not admit that the Senate is corrupt because the senators are corrupt, and that eliminating the Senate will not eliminate the corruption.
There has been legislation passed, much of it contained in the Patriot Act, that infringes on legal rights of citizens. This happened with a bicameral system. It would presumably have passed in a unicameral one too, the difference being your government would cost a lot less, and would contain 100 fewer elected criminals. It’s not much of an improvement, but it’s still an improvement of some sorts.
I don’t believe the Senate wants to pass progressive legislation, nor that the filibuster got in the way of it. The Senate should be abolished in my opinion. It serves no purpose other than to give a citizen of Wyoming 83 times the representation of a citizen of California.
I’m not at all content with a very slim majority of a very tiny fraction of the population imposing its will on everybody else. What’s funny is that’s what you’re advocating. You’re content with 40 people dictating the law for the entire country, essentially. Because that’s really the situation here, 40 people get to decide what happens, not 60. The supermajority just empowers the minority, not the majority.
Advocating for the Senate itself, and then further for maintaining the filibuster is an absolute endorsement of extreme anti-majoritarian rule.
Your whole position, and counterpoint, aren’t even internally logically consistent.
Sorry, Michael, but this reply doesn’t begin to de-construct my argument above that the filibuster is unconstitutional. You’re just repeating yourself and asserting the factual nature of a factual statement that can easily be disputed as I just did above.
Yes, it is a fact that the filibuster is now considered to be constitutional by the Senate. But that doesn’t make it constitutional, and if the Senate applies the “nuclear option” to it, then it will stand declared as unconstitutional by the Senate, which will then embrace majority rule as the primary principle for decision making in the Senate.
I’m inclined to be sympathetic to your view that if the Ds really wanted to pass progressive legislation, they could have done that in spite of the filibuster. After all, they could have used the nuclear option to get rid of the filibuster and then they never would have had to negotiate with the likes of Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, and a number of other Ds who cut the heart out of progressive legislation. The fact that they did not get rid of the filibuster is the proof for me that they were not serious about forcing progressive legislation through.
On this point, however:
While I agree that the Republicans were able to get much of what they wanted through the Congress in spite of the filibuster, I think you’re wrong to assert that this shows that the filibuster wasn’t the reason why the Ds didn’t get progressive legislation.
I think you’re wrong about this because politics is not Physics and you’ve set up a straw man. Of course, the filibuster isn’t THE cause of the Ds failure to produce progressive legislation. There are a lot of other causes. Nevertheless, the filibuster, the cloture procedures, and the accompanying customs allowing Senators to declare that they are filibustering without actually carrying out a filibuster, created a situation where certain Republican and blue dog Democratic Senators had an extraordinary amount of influence on legislation.
They made the stimulus bill much smaller and much more focused on tax cuts than it probably otherwise would have been. This cost millions of jobs. They also greatly weakened the so-called Credit card Reform bill, which has chiefly resulted in Credit Card Companies raising interest rates by 50 – 100% or more at the very time that they are getting money from the Fed at near zero interest. These same Senators, were able to greatly weaken the hcr bill and eliminate most of its progressive elements. The finreg bill was also not nearly strong enough in regulating the financial industry and has not ended too big to fail. I think that bill would have been one hell of a lot stronger except for the filibuster/cloture/holds/ nexus.
Further, there’s no way a second stimulus would have been so hard to get without the existence of the filibuster and related nonsense, and there’s also no way that the tax cuts for the rich would have played out in the same way.
I don’t want to give the impression that I think all progressive legislation would have sailed through without the filibuster and the other associated customs surrounding it. My main point is that its existence strengthened the Ds ability go through their kabuki routines, and strengthen their ability even today to say that they have been fighting for the people, when we know that they have sold out to the corporates. If there had been no filibuster their kabuki would have been much harder to sustain, and they would have had to own up to their blatant corporatism.
Without their inability to hide behind the filibuster, I think that some of them would have felt constrained to be more responsive to their voters, and as a result I think the legislation coming out of the last Congress would have been more progressive in material and important ways.
That’s a gross misrepresentation of the Senate’s function. it is not to give “Wyoming 83 times the representation of a citizen of California.” it is to give Wyoming, and other states like it, the same representation as everyone else in one chamber of Congress. In the House, its representation is — on paper if not in practice — proportional.
If you’re not comfortable with that notion, then stop advocating for the elimination of the Senate. As powwow points out, debate is in fact part and parcel of democratic government. By moving to stifle debate for the sake of political expediency, you end up with precisely the sort of legislation that has brought such harm to this country — legislation like the Patriot Act, and so on.
My position and my argument are logically consistent. Your problem is that you’re so hellbent on sticking by a position common sense and progressive values should tell you are wrong that you refuse to let yourself be open to the truth.
But at least in a bicameral system, the route to passage for such legislation is rightly more difficult — in theory, anyway. Why make it even easier? Far from improving things, ending the Senate (which requires a change in the Constitution anyway) worsens the situation.