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The White House allowed BP to hide its video feed of a gushing oil pipe in the Gulf of Mexico from the public for three weeks, all the while that same video played live in the White House Situation Room, ABC reports.
This startling revelation comes just as Obama prepares to get really angry in public about the spill – just in time to cover up his administration’s collusion with BP to hide the true extent of the massive disaster in the Gulf.
Brian Ross and John Soloman of the Center for Public Integrity discussed ABC’s quest to obtain the video of the oil pipe and revealed that the White House consented to the release of a 30 second clip of the pipe.
"At the end of the day, the White House finally acquiesced to the 30 second piece because they understood the political and media pressure," said CPI’s John Soloman. "Why not sooner? It’s been going on for three weeks. People have seen this internally within government almost every day. Why can’t the American people see it?"
The release of even the 30 second video clip showing the oil spewing uninhibited into the ocean immediately led outside observers to conclude the disaster was far worse than the 210,000 gallon estimate of the NOAA and Coast Guard. One scientist predicted to NPR that the rate is more in the range of almost 3 million gallons a day based on an analysis of the video released by BP.
The revelation that the White House and BP kept the true extent of the oil disaster from the public coincides nicely with last night’s news that Obama plans to get "angry" in front of the White House press corps tomorrow about BP’s role in the disaster and its clean up. Don’t be fooled, though. The evidence is mounting that the White House is working in concert with industry to hide the truth about the extent and cause of the spill.
144 Comments
What can you say?
Impeachment. But first start with the Justice (Ha, Ha) Dept investigation of Ken Salazar. Can we make that a FDL action?
HOPE for impeachment next congress.
Can Biden be worse.
I guess we’re little children who shouldn’t watch the oil pornography flicks.
Don’t tell me he’s going to use “The Nuclear Option.”
Here comes some finger-wagging and maybe even a sternly-worded letter.
Duck and cover!!!
The video does make Obama’s newfound drill, baby, drill stance look extremely foolish and foolhardy. Right wingers are never going to vote for him no matter how much he panders to their idiocy.
You’ve about covered it, razorbrain.
The larger question (which likely shall not be asked) is; What should HAPPEN, as a consequence? Which, of course, precisely matches the answer to YOUR question … once, again.
We are back to “outrage after outrage”.
We must think beyond the shocks.
DW
The corporations own the government and the mass media. We are only along for the ride. Enjoy the view… and smell of death.
What’s that tired old cliche about a Roman Emperor and his violin?
Whoever first said that this oil volcano was Nobummer’s Katrina hit the nail very firmly with the hammer.
So are the kool aid drinkers at Big Orange gonna say that Rahmbama’s just playing eleventygazillion level chess, and that now, NOW, Mr. Hopey-Changey is *really gonna show ‘em*????? Cue the hurly-burly girs, fellas, we needs us some distration….
I’m shocked but not suprised, just more change we can beleive in.
Everything is on schedule, please move along.
thanks, michael. recommended. the timing of the abc reporting is great. wake me up when obama’s finished his angry remarks. i’ll thank in advance whomever’s going to watch him so i don’t have to. my current fantasy (that i won’t get modded for) is to see obama in a press conference with only helen thomas representing the press.
One small editing comment: we aren’t “back to” outrage after outrage… we never stopped “being at” outrage after outrage. There wasn’t even an *intermission* between W and Nobummer… it has been an ongoing, uninterrupted administration, which continues to hammer on the US population, the planet, our environment, etc, 24/7/365… welcome to our ongoing, unending, continuous nightmare.
And yes: now what?
There’s an ass-whuppin that I’d actually watch. Hell, I might even go PPV on it.
Yes, it was a “smooth transition”, was it not, onitgoes?
DW
O doesn’t have to worry about getting any right winger votes when he can count on all those dumb ass Democratic kool-aid swillers.
But, now the arrogance is on full display, since the “meltdown” “they” have taken NO pains to even try to hide away their cunning deceits and arrogant assumption than NOTHING may gainsay them.
Every day MORE people, everywhere, understand.
And, believe it or not, that is the real “stuff” of progress.
DW
Yes. But get this: imo, Nobummer’s not trying to “pander to the right to get their votes.” Not at all. The radical right, in particular, is never ever going to vote for him for several reasons.
What Mr. Hopey-Changey is doing is being the Republican President in Dem drag Kabuki show. And he’s trying mightily (and succeeding with some, unfortunately) to push, push, push, push Democratic voters to accept the corporate control of their lives. Hence, if Mr. Empty Suit sez “drill baby drill,” the IDEA is that Democrats will “buy it” from him, even though we thought Palin & Michael Steele were jerks.
Sad to say, it IS working to an extent. the inexorable push of our country to corporate control is more in the lap of the Dems, than the Republics, imo. With the Republics, we KNEW that’s who they are. The Dems are just as much controlled by the corporations and in their pay and thrall, but the LIE and tell us Dem voters fairy tales. Beware. Live and learn.
The corrupt ossified “system” is likely incapable of reform. Certainly not from Republicons and not from the likes of Mr. Bipartisan and his ilk. The U.S. is held hostage by a plutocracy that has more in common with Dracula than with Jefferson.
I miss Bush. At least it didn’t feel confusing to hate him. Other than that, no diff.
YT clip that needs to go viral.
Obama is going to make a great speech he will even dazzle the press with his answers to questions but we have been through this on healthcare Obama will grab his ankles when he meets with the oil companies in private.
Question for the Press if they read FDL Will BP pay all the fishermen and beach front tourist workers for their lost jobs?
Yes, very sadly, much too smooth by half. UGH
I hear tell from my friends downundah that the transition from Bush’s poodle, John Howard, to allegedly Labor Kevin Rudd, has been remarkably similar to our situation up here. I told my Aus. gf that if they consider Kevin Rudd as “Howard-Lite,” they are LUCKY bc we consider Nobummer as even worse than W. At this point, I would feel *lucky* if BHO was “W-lite.” There is nothing “lite” about BHO; he’s the real deal. Full tilt boogie: push the nation hard right and his hand out for the corporate payola. BAH
It doesn’t take much to “dazzle” the corporate press in the U.S.
I’ve never wanted anybody to be right about anything as much as I want you to be right about this, DW. I’m having a SERIOUS case of PTSD.
There is a shoe repairman on my street – a raging wingnut – wears his politics on his sleeve – he has a sign in front of his shop – Obama Lies Impeach Obama.
The impeachment of Obama is something that the left and the right may be able to get done together.
Wouldn’t hurt my feelings. Obama has been a disaster. He intends to do more damage to the citizenry. As a Trojan Horse Democrat he may succeed in gutting Social Security where Dubya had failed. Might be good to impeach him before he takes a huge bite out of our “entitlements”.
Brilliant! Everytime I hear somebody say that he has sat down for interviews, I thought to myself, “Not with Helen Thomas, he hasn’t”.
Make this a diary.
I hope Jessie Ventura runs in 2012. He is by far more progressive than any conceivable democrat or republican. He’ll prosecute the torturers, break up the banks give us the same insurance the veterans have, and outlaw political parties! Yayyyyy! Please run Jessie!
I quite agree. I’ve seen similar signs and bumper stickers, and I’m all like: where do we sign up for this impeachment?
Righties have been misled about why they are “upset” with BHO, but I’m willing to make common cause on this.
My only concern is: given that the whole system is so corrupt – from top to bottom with the “media” being run by the corporations – what do we “get” should BHO be impeached? Hard to say, but worth a thought.
Until people understand what is “behind” all that is plaguing humanity, they cannot begin to consider what to do. That is where those “narratives” I’ve been on about become the NEXT thing WE must “do”, razorbrain.
DW
You know you don’t need to go any further than that. It applies not just here but across the board.
The corporate media comes to the table pre-dazzled with all of their talking points already written down.
Next question for the Press does it really make economic sense for the oil companies to spend millions on lobbyists to save a few million on environmental regulations when an oil spill like this opens them up to how many billions in lawsuits?
Never mind the damage to the economy?
Fishermen not fishing drives up food costs and that causes inflation and makes the dollar weak leading to higher interest rates on our National Debt.
Oil stained Florida Beaches means airline trips to florida are going to get canceled add that to the Iceland Volcano cutting off flights to Europe for awhile and the possibility the Volcano may do it again.
Plus the economic boycott of AZ nobody Brown will fly or drive through the state unless they have to and then you have the makings of much higher unemployment numbers come November.
What are you going to do Obama?
At tampabay.com, June 20, 2008:
At a stop in Jacksonville today, Sen. Barack Obama plans to tell reporters that he continues to support the federal ban on off-shore drilling. His Republican rival, Sen. John McCain, said this week he would like to lift the ban and let states decide whether to drill.
“And when I am President, I will keep the moratorium in place and prevent oil companies from drilling off Florida’s coasts,” Obama says. “That’s how we can protect our coasts and still make the investments that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil and bring down gas prices for good.”
Liar.
I wonder what the WH pushback on ABC’s going to be like. No more cocktail weenies for Brian Ross!
The Hacks do get distracted by shinny objects shinning them on.
No, it’s the pause in speech, with pursed blue lips, a downward glance, as if he were looking over invisible eyeglasses, and then looking left and then right to make sure that the gesture is noted, before prattling on.
Does the corporate press spit or swallow? A rhetorical questions of course.
Let’s ask Pelosi if it’s off the table.
His only hope now is if he can prove that ABC is talking through its hat. Expect to see tons of pushback on this — because you know the Republicans are going to jump on this with both feet, true or not.
Yes, and has been doing so for years (forever?). Just got a whole lot worse with Zombie Reagan, but no Democratic POTUS and Admin or Congress, to date, has done a damn thing differently from the Republicans. Citizens need to take the blinders off and see reality for what it is. The letters D and R don’t mean a damn thing, and the POTUS – no matter from which pol. party – is NOT your “friend,” and he/she ain’t doing what you voted them in to do. They work solely and only for the corporations.
I see that, too. That is an important collateral benefit of the third party concept I’ve been pushing–even if it doesn’t yield immediate electoral victories, it is (or should be) an excellent educational vehicle for getting the “People vs. Big Corporations” narrative out there.
Non starter Florida can’t afford Louisiana to have another oil spill reaching their beaches. Sooner or later Disney will realize the oil spill will hurt them.
Made me laugh! But I’d say: swallow bc that’s what they’re PAID to do!
Sweetheart, you’re welcome to do a diary. I’ve got no stamina for sitting and writing now or researching or learning how the writing a diary thingy works. I should be getting ready for the organic pest control guy to arrive and then for a 5 day trip, but here I am. Go for it if you’d like that diary.
Listening to Obama is far worse than listening to Bush. With Bush you knew he was an idiot but he was an honest to his principles idiot. With Obama you know he’s nothing but a silver tongued liar devoid of any real principles other than an aggrandizement of power for himself and his well connected sponsors.
We get Biden. I don’t know enough about him to know if that’s an improvement or not. He’d be more colorful.
As Upton Sinclair pointed out, “you can’t expect someone to know something when their paycheck is dependent on them not knowing.”
Next question the climate change bill is based on reducing America’s green house gases but that was before BP’s oil spill killed how many miles of ocean plants that breath in CO2.
Just how much more CO2 will the Climate Change bill have to reduce CO2 now to compensate for the oil spill?
That is true but the more we support the alternative press (leftwing truth – news blogs) the farther we’ll get.
Nadar was wrong – there is a difference between the DEM and GOP even if it is disgustingly small difference. Let’s keep Obama and fucking Rahm to one term but don’t let the GOP back in the door by promoting a third party for president.
Just how much natural gas from the oil spill is entering our atmosphere and how much will that affect global warming please tell me the government is taking atmospheric readings.
There is a certain oiliness to this adminstration. Rather like Nixon.
Beautifully said, robgard, the calculation in Obama’s facial gesticulation and dramatic “pause”, has never, been so well described.
DW
Peter DeFazio of Oregon would make an excellent primary challenger to the huckster. He sees through O’s shtick.
Just how much pollution is entering the air from the oil spill how much will that effect global warming?
The “general welfare” of America?
Seems the General welfare of America has been compromised. Foreign corporations conduct negligent business in America destroying Life, liberty, the environment, opportunity? The tip of the iceberg?
Freeze their assets. Iranian students holding American citizens, Embassy workers hostage resulted in the Freezing of Iranian Assets. America is being hostage. Freeze the Assets of Haliburton, Transcom, and BP. Protect America, not irresponsible corporations and the corporate aristocrats who with undue influence and money manipulate policy and law to the detriment of the republic!
With the expected defaults in homes of fishermen and tourist workers plus commercial real estate (hotels) caused by the oil spill if BP does not pay them how many baks are expected to fail?
i love defazio. he was my critter when i lived in oregon.
Obama, Schmobama. Dude has as much actual power as i do. He’s paid to look good and lie, period.
“Preparing to get really angry .. ” As others note, so funny/weird that they even share the script and director’s notes with us now.
If we (by “we” i mean crony capitalist greedfucks) manage to somehow not despoil the entirety of the world’s oceans with this catastrophe, we will consider it a wonderful manly victory for oil .. and press on with our spectacular follies ..
Btw isn’t it amazing how Usually Unstoppable Motormouth Dick [Cheney] seems to have fallen off the planet? Then again, he’s prolly secretly advising the WH puppet .. it’s not as if they’re not on the same page anyway
Check this linky
http://ecology.com/features/mostimportantorganism/
Hey Obama, hey Cheney, hey big men everywhere – how do you feel about your children breathing?
Given that financial companies like banks and insurance companies who have to pay claims on the oil spill never mind Credit Default Swaps that get paid for people betting on a bad economy are whats driving the Dow up what happens to the Dow if BP does not pay?
This is Barry’s Waterloo.
If there was a micron of doubt about Mr. Centrist being in the pocket of Big Oil, this should be the shut-off valve for continuing that bullshit.
Some do, but rarely do they do enough.
The problem, of course, is that political campaigns cost lots and lots and lots of money. Wanna be a congresscritter? Price of entry for even a backbencher’s seat is now around $500,000 minimum, and can run as high as $5 million for a seat like Rahm Emanuel’s. The Senate’s even worse: $5 million is barely enough to defend a seat, $20 million is more like it. And becoming president takes hundreds of millions of dollars.
Where does all this money go? Most of it goes into campaign ads — TV, radio and print media, with the internet a new place in which to spend money.
How do we stop this? Well, with the Citizens United ruling keeping us from throttling back campaign spending, there are two (2) options:
1) Pass laws to get around that ruling (which Congress is attempting to do, but which even if fast-tracked will take months if not years).
2) Push for public money to level the playing field. This is the option being promoted by the Public Campaign people: http://www.pubilcampaign.org
This is the tack that Arizona’s taken.
But then the corporate media and their pampered, privileged and rich spokesmodels are also in the pockets of the corporations so don’t expect the American public to know what’s going on.
I would love to see that FOX TV show, “Lie to Me” with British actor, Tim Roth, come on after every Obama televised speech with an “Dr.Cal Lightman” analysis of the speech.
http://www.fox.com/lietome/
There is much blame to be spread around for this disaster, no question. But my troll and agent provocateur meter is off the scale here at FDL. Sad.
Lest we forget: it was the Republicans who screamed “Drill, baby, drill.” The fact that Obama agreed with them is driving us liberals crazy. But this is not an impeachable offense. You fools need to stop carrying on about nonsense and focus on real facts. We need campaign finance reform to keep effing Congress from sucking at the corporate teat–or else nothing will change.
Right now we’re hoping throwing out incumbents will make a difference. If it does not, I fully expect a revolution.
http://ecology.com/features/mostimportantorganism/
Ok we got a map of algae concentrations we got maps of the oil spill how much do the red, orange, blue etc areas produce oxygen per mile?
We are getting beyond my math abilities here the Greens at FDL are going to have to weigh in.
Interesting perspective, esp. re Cheney. I’ve had similar questions and thoughts about motor-mouth Cheney lately. The big swinging Dick and his mini-me daughter have been *interesingly* absent and silent of late. Of course, Biggus Dickus has a lot of sway and pay in and from the big “H”aliburto, so….
Not so sure that I agree completely with you that Nobummer has “no power,” albeit he is certainly being paid handsomely to look good and lie with aplomb. I think the POTUS still has *some* power, but, eh – guess if you have no morals, no ethics, no conscience, no concern, don’t give an eff, then you’ll get paid by the highest bidder and SMILE whilst you do so.
Sorry my 67 was a reply to sharkbabe.
Apparently, it’s also necessary to prevent scientists from doing an accurate measurement of the flow of oil from the pipe. Might interfere with BP’s propaganda campaign. Can’t have that.
Darth has high negatives especially about oil I’m sure the oil companies have him in an undisclosed location until this blows over. I’m surprised the oil companies are letting Sarah still talk about it.
It might look something like this. Helen shows up at about 4:20.
Seymour Friendly has a fresh cross-post available: More Drilling Ahead in the Arctic, We Still Don’t Know the Current Spill Rate
OT Dan Profit was seen at Sarah’s Rosemont fundraiser can any Illinois pups confirm this?
We’re not 100% sure, but we think that man in the suit is Dan Proft, who tried to run for Governor this year, but didn’t make it passed the primary. Proft’s the one with all those crooked deals in Cicero, which we think is near Rosemont, somewhere in the suburbs. So, it makes sense that he’s here. Do you remember Slimer from Ghostbusters? For some reason, whenever we see Proft, we think that’s what Slimer looked like before he became a ghost.
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/05/13/photos-sarah-palin-in-rosemont-il-51210-an-evening-with-sarah-palin-speech/
You have to scroll down a good bit to see the photo.
I disagree about the troll and agent provacatuers in this instance. This is a dead serious situation, and I, for one, am tired of Democrats rolling over and taking it. Speaking only for myself, I am STILL getting excuse, after excuse, after excuse from my Dem friends, who continue to absolve and exonerate BHO based simply on the fact that he ran as a so-called “Democratic” POTUS.
Seriously: what DOES it take to wake voters up to the fact that they’ve been HAD??? If you can point out one salient difference between this Admin and the W Admin, then I’m all eyes to read it. I’m not trying to be mean spirited or attacking here, but I think the blow-back on this post reflects that extreme frustation that many of us feel watching the LIES and obfuscations continue to POUR forth from this Admin.
And finally, liberals aren’t – at this moment – just infuriated that Obama said “drill baby drill” (as maddening as that was). I’m beyond infuriated at LIES like this one, where the volcano videos have been kept – deliberately – from the world’s population for three effen weeks. Yeah, that’s right, direct to you from Mr. Government Transparency, himself.
There are those, truly, who may read faces as I might read a book. A non-fiction book.
DW
Bluetoe, I think the good progressive blogs…that is, the ones who aren’t compulsive about covering Obama’s feckless ass like they were a crooked NBA ref working a “house job” in the playoffs, are really helping with this. An ass of people are following it, and HuffPo, who have been great about exposing the industry bullshit, are really putting a hurt on Obama.
Could it happen to a nicer corporate pimp?
Bible Spice can slaver about anything, anything at all, and her worshippers will whip out their checkbooks and shower her with loads of cash-money. Hence, that’s why there’s no muzzle on the grifter right now. She’s still grifting for dollahs, and this deee-saster is as lucrative as anything else.
OT
Dan seems to be mobbed up we can discredit Sarah big oil’s Drill Baby Drill most popular spokeswoman if we can confirm he and God knows who else where at her shindig.
I mean really who throws a fundraiser in a Mob town?
thanks for that link.
PW, was this not the intent of Jefferson and Madison, both wanted restrictions on the “corporate identity?”
http://mises.org/Community/blogs/tokyotom/archive/2010/02/07/corpspeak-on-the-dangers-of-corporations-and-of-the-supreme-court-quot-jefferson-was-right-quot.aspx
Jefferson Was Right
05/24/03
“Most Americans don’t know it but Thomas Jefferson, along with James Madison worked assiduously to have an 11th Amendment included into our nation’s original Bill of Rights. This proposed Amendment would have prohibited “monopolies in commerce.” The amendment would have made it illegal for corporations to own other corporations, or to give money to politicians, or to otherwise try to influence elections. Corporations would be chartered by the states for the primary purpose of “serving the public good.” Corporations would possess the legal status not of natural persons but rather of “artificial persons.” This means that they would have only those legal attributes which the state saw fit to grant to them. They would NOT; and indeed could NOT possess the same bundle of rights which actual flesh and blood persons enjoy. Under this proposed amendment neither the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution, nor any provision of that document would protect the artificial entities known of as corporations.”
They already gave us the plan!!! Amend the constitution and outlaw leveraged corporate servitude of “real people” to artificial corporations and their puppeteers, string pullers?
If another GOP administration is what it takes to wake the people up to the need for a revoloution to take back this country from the corporations, then I see that as a good thing. The disgustingly small difference which you concede translates to a delay of that moment, and therefore a continued enabling of the current trend. You may be “Willing” to continue being an enabler, I am not.
“We still don’t know the current spill rate.”
Well, if no one objects too much, I think I’ll go with the numbers from the scientists who aren’t joined at the wallet/conscience with Big Oil.
Connect her to the Outfit (Chicago Mob) the Outlaws biker gang and corrupt Cicero police who sleep with mob Whores and run license plate numbers on the Feds i presume working for Fitz and even the *cough * Family values crowd will have problems with her.
Dan Proft gives us all of that.
I think Industry wants ineptitude. This all is why Obama appointed the small-minded cattle rancher Salazar – whose entire Interior department is a shambles where industry gets whatever it wants. Can’t protect sage-grouse – because of Energy and cattle industry bedfellows. And they are about to authorize a devastating gas pipeline for El Paso (Ruby) so that Energy company buddies of Salazar can destroy one of the most remote areas left in the West – through the northern Black Rock country in Nevada.
How’s your personal “drowning in the Kool-Aide” meter doing? Perhaps that is something else that just can’t be measured.
We can now rough estimate algae loss from satellite photos and Shark babe’s link if we knew how the colors correspond to algae eating CO2 we could give a better number.
Granted oil under water thats not being measured would not be counted but that only makes our case stronger.
Don’t hold your breath waiting fro the Congresscritters who live on corporate money to do anything about starving themselves of it.
I wrote banker gang instead of Biker gang on my 83 Freudian slip? I did not mean to insult any bikers by comparing them to bankers.
Biden was the chief architect, and proudly so, of what wound up being the Patriot Act.
Thassit, ‘things…but flow rate and pipe diameter are not hard to assess, and at this point, the accuracy of BP, and the White House, for that matter, purely suck.
And notice that all the first options to stop this primarily allow BP to keep the ability to harvest this drillsite? Temporary stopgaps until the backdrill allows them to re-open it for full operations? The FASTEST way to stop this is to blow it up, deep beneath the ground. But then, BP couldn’t keep getting the oil out… Thanks, White House!
Oblama is just protecting us from ourselves. If we knew the truth we might shit our pants.
Agreed we don’t need their funny numbers. But we still need our experts to weigh in this is out of my league.
As long as you don’t say nukes I’m willing to listen to blowout ideas.
See also ABC correspondent Brian Hartman’s account of being closed out of the BP-Coast Guard emergency response center.
The original report is vague, but makes one highly suspicious that the Coast Guard is more or less clueless, and that the White House is not moving quickly enough – to put the kindest possible reading on what has generally been, from the election campaign onward, a smooth public relations operation.
The ‘legal argument’ represented by the US government sources to ABC is simply ludicrous: if I ‘owned’ a snuff video of myself blowing up a federal building with people in it due to my negligence, I’m not sure the local DA’s office would let me ‘keep it’ because it was my ‘property’!!!
Yes, it’s a source of continuing amazement to me (as a self-confessed lawyer) that nobody has yet mounted a direct legal challenge to the very concept of corporate personhood. To my knowledge, there has NEVER been any Supreme Court analysis justifying that concept, and it is so obviously wrong and irrational by any real world standard. Most especially so to assert it under the 14th Amendment, whose purpose was to uphold the rights of OPPRESSED people.
They also wanted to ban slavery, but there was no way Virginia or the Carolinas (not to mention Georgia) would have allowed that.
Watch who you are calling a fool unless you like the taste of crow.
BLOW JOB is impeachable offense but colluding to destroy the environment and deceiving the public for corporate profit isn’t?????????????
Christ I’m in an insane asylum and the inmates took over !!!!!!!!!
No Power == NO BALLS
You would skip it if it meant staying alive? Just asking.
Santa Clara v Southern Pacific does not impress?
Oh dear, we shall have to speak with that “clerk”.
Who needs any court, Supreme or less so, to decide that corps(e) are people too?
DW
Just asking, tjbs, whom would YOU trust to DO this?
And with a nuclear device, if I understand you correctly?
DW
Since April 20, the Minerals Management Service has OK’d 27 new offshore oil drilling projects.
We MUST have business as usual, rmwarnick, else the people would become fearful and feel sore oppressed.
DW
I am assuming, DW, from your “clerk” reference, that you already know the actual opinion says we are “NOT” (caps mine) deciding this case on the basis of the 14th Amendment argument. The clerk did it.
I have had a minor tiff w/bmaz over this issue in the past, and he wound up conceding that he never saw any Supe language actually analyzing the corporate personhood issue (and he’s been more deeply involved than I). That means the whole concept is pure bullshit, yet it continues to be the prime ordering criteria for the entire planet.
That’s the education we agree needs to sink in on the People.
So what? Big O said Salazar is doing a heckuva job. Get lost, you Doubting Thomas. /s
Pure, unadulterated (is there any other kind? … Uh huh) bullshit of the FIRST order.
Unsupported poppycock.
I’ve thought so since my first con law course, as did the prof, I know she did, because I asked.
A story, if ever there was one, that needs telling.
bmaz has, long since, the “topic” last came down the tracks, promised to do so (unless I missed it).
DW
The big “O” is nothing more than an orgasm of power.
I’m on to the do or die worse case.
After all the easy answers are tried for sure.
White House PR fail.
Have you ever wondered, “How did corporations come to be considered to be people, too?”
“People” … just like me and you.
Well:
ONCE upon a time, a far off time, yet in this very land, there came about Great Consternation … a terrible and fearsome thing.
The nation was, still yet, young and many things were still unsettled, from sea to shining sea, and silver-colored pairs of ribbons tied the East onto the West …
Long before the Model “T” set this nation, truly “free”, the railroads were the symbol and the proof of our destiny …
To be continued …
DW
The important thing is what do we replace him with?
Another question, if I might? (Well two, now, ;~D)
Who, that is, what entity, will decide “when” we have arrived at that “worst case”?
Okay, I find I am a liar, there are several more questions.
As this “decision” could, conceivably affect everyone in the world, who would rightly decide “when” and “how much” to do?
The Us?
The UN?
The US and Mexico?
And then who should do the “dirty”?
And what if, things go gang awry?
When considering “risk” honestly, the very worst case must be accounted for.
Considering that, so far as I may tell, “they” haven’t a REAL clue as to what to DO next, I remain … trepidatious.
DW
Hawaii and California beaches are going to get a lot more popular.
DW to try to respond to your questions i am humbled.
Isn’t trepidatious a little mild ?
I kinda understand mechanical processes and try to think big, like the mechanical earth and it boggles the mind. Now, I’m focused on the worst case before we have to consider the worst case.
I appreciate your thoughts as you put them out there.
RICO
As I appreciate yours, tjbs.
Many are unwilling to cast their minds ahead, but you well realize that, so your considerations are most needful, indeed, they all must be embraced.
DW
my effin’ deja wont quit vu’ing:
What did the President know, and when did he know it ???
Kind of O/T. I guess I need to control my anger, buy a sleeve of Tums, and finally read Citizen’s United.
I thought the incredibly bogus corporate-personhood idea first appeared in a published US Supreme Court decision back in the 1880s, and the Court did not cite any authority to support it, which violates the stare decisis rule. It may also be dicta, if unnecessary to the outcome of that case. There is no question that it smells like right-wing judicial activism, so it should be a very weak legal principle, unless reaffirmed in Citizen’s United. I don’t recall the name of the case or the author.
I don’t see how the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment is violated by the law that the Court struck down in Citizen’s United, even if one assumes, arguendo, that a corporation is a person. Unlike race and gender, a corporation is not a suspect category, so a law that limits corporation spending on behalf of a candidate for public office does not violate the Equal Protection Clause, so long as there’s a rational basis that supports the limitation.
The biggest threat to our democracy is the monumental cost that a candidate for national public office must bear to assure a reasonable chance to compete against opponents. Since large publicly traded multi-national corporations make billions of dollars each year, they can easily outspend individuals by millions of dollars giving their candidates an unfair advantage. Therefore, a law that prohibits them from making campaign donations is reasonably related to assuring fair elections and does not violate the Equal Protection Clause.
FWIW, that’s my take on it.
How about the Pocket Fisherman from Popeil?
Don’t think so, or I would have seen it. This is a topic of highest interest to me.
DW, you’re not one of those damn lawyers, are you lol?
It seems to me they are currently more concerned with corraling the oil than with stopping it.
WTF is going on at the WH? Don’t they realize (all possible good intentions aside) how damaging this complicity is? Yes, complicity: can it be anything else?
I had to watch the last portion (when the video is mentioned) of that clip a couple of times because it was just unbelievable.
The case was Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, circa 1870 or 71.
Staare decisis does not enter into, that only requires following already settled law.
But there was dictum, mere dictum as lawyers say, mere because it deserves no precedential weight going forward. The opinion expressly stated the decision was not based on Constitutional grounds (they held the tax in question was calculated incorrectly).
The clerk of the court (apparently a rabid railroad sympathizer and perhaps paid agent) wrote the headnotes for the case, and for the first headnote (traditionally reserved for the most important holding, NEVER for mere dictum), wrote that the Court held that the RR was a person within the meaning of the 14th Amendmennt.
I nevevr saw the case cited for that proposition until 1920, when it was cited without examination or comment. There has never been an analysis laying out the reasons why such status should be conferred on corporations (to my knowledge). So, a class of super-citizens was created by improper means, and has gone on to take over the entire planet and its future with the help of these improperly granted rights and protections.
Not I.
Thought most seriously ’bout it, though, once upon a time.
But my deep and heartfelt concerns about the role of money and the issue of “standing” ( “justice”, clearly, depending on the first, and even possible access depending on the second, and, all too often, not “available” to those most in need of it), persuaded me that my equanimity and my fellow humans would be far better served were I to follow other “threads” of understanding.
DW
LOL. I had this idealistic notion of being a gladiator for little people seeking justice from big people/entities that had abused them.
Never lost a case in my short career, but got tired of having to win by proving that my learned colleagues, fellow officers of the Court, were blatantly perjuring themselves. Decided to leave the swamp before I got tempted to become a swamp creature myself. No regrets, never looked back.
But, I do have a continuing fantasy of joining a project to challenge “corporate personhood.”
Excellent summation, razorbrain.
Perhaps you might consider regaling us with the longer version, which might induce bmaz to join the discussion?
I should like (hell, I’ll thoroughly enjoy) a discussion which includes the two of you holding forth on this particular subject.
Why, I might even spout up a bit myself, if I can get a good “head” of steam sufficiently up. Puff. Puff.
It would be a Seminal “hit”.
Guaranteed.
DW
;~DW
when the bleating of the sheep as they are being sheared becomes an unbearable nuisance, the owners of this country will sic the army, police, and armed rednecks upon the rest of us. they have the money, they have the guns, they have the prisons, they control the propaganda outlets, and their minions will attack with glee and gusto. we have nothing, we are fucked…rachel corries one and all.
george carlin had it right. we do not have any rights…we have temporary priveleges which will be revoked instantly following any signs of real resistance.
sorry about raining on the parade, but there it is…look it in the eyes.
Shucks, thass just wot cowboys do, podner.
“Round it up, head it out …raw …we’re all gonna have to … hide
Git along little duh-oily … git along.
DW
Why do you think George got people laughing?
The one thing “they” cannot stand is to be laughed at.
And they’ve made a royal joke of themselves regarding … everything.
Not doubt, some of “them” would like to do as you suggest they might, and truly, that threat is soon to be the most powerful “thing” that they have in their arsenal.
But the weight of understanding has undercut their legitimacy, the “mandate of heaven” has fled them, they are, in their manifold failures, which may enrich some, doomed, ultimately, and sooner than they imagine, to destroy themselves.
You are seeing it in front of your eyes, under the noise, the distractions and the bully posturing, they are desperate.
Are you?
DW
I got the strong impression bmaz is hostile to the argument. I had to really put the screws to him to get him to stop dismissing it and concede that HE never saw any Supe analysis justifying the “corp personhood” concept, either. You know how he sometimes gets completely immersed in his lawyerly milieu lol.
Couldn’t agree more, both with your perception, and with the need to see it straight on without illusions.
You are just tooooo bad!
@133 & @135
;~DW
Testing.
1
2
3
Testing …
Ahem!
DW
I love it when you lawyers talk dirty. Thax
AKA==TCKUA or they can’t kill us all
And, if they try … woe, of a grim certainty, will betide them.
tjbs, you understand.
Namaste
See? A lawyer CAN make you smile sometimes lol (well, ex-lawyer, if there is such a thing).
For all the beautiful creatures who are dying and have died in agony because of this disaster: Obama, you have my burning, undying hatred. Why don’t you go make a few more jokes about predator drones, Nero?
Yeah. IMO, any dolphin is worth more than any politician.
Right.
And impeachment is the answer because Cheney and Bush did such a bang up job with energy.
By the way…anybody here ever find out who attended the secret Cheney meeting at the beginning of their tenure?
I didn’t think so…