I’d have been happy to say nothing, and let Prof. Chomsky make the case, except for the three paragraph 100 words min. posting rule. Let me concentrate just on the initial 3 paragraph long comment:
And there’s been a wave of propaganda over the last couple of months, which is pretty impressive to watch, trying to deflect attention away from those who actually created the economic crisis, like Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, their associates in the government who—Federal Reserve and others—let all this go on and helped it. There’s a—to switch attention away from them to the people really responsible for the crisis—teachers, police, firefighters, sanitation workers, their huge pensions, their incredible healthcare benefits, Cadillac healthcare benefits, and their unions, who are the real villains, the ones who are robbing the taxpayer by making sure that policemen may not starve when they retire. And this is pretty amazing, like right in the middle of the Madison affair, which is critical.
The CEO of Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein, got a $12.5 million bonus, and his base pay was more than tripled. Well, that means he—the rules of corporate governments have been modified in the last 30 years by the U.S. government to allow the chief executive officer to pretty much set their own salaries. There’s various ways in which this has been done, but it’s government policy. And one of the effects of it is—people talk about inequality, but what’s a little less recognized is that although there is extreme inequality, it’s mostly because of the top tiny fraction of the population, so like a fraction of one percent of the population, their wealth has just shot through the stratosphere. You go down to the—you know, the next 10 percent are doing pretty well, but it’s not off the spectrum. And this is by design.
(DemocracyNow doesn’t offer short codes, so I’m sorry not to be able to embed the vid. Rather than linking to the source directly, let’s go through Znet instead—let’s turn a negative into a positive: ZCommunications | “Democracy Uprising” in the U.S.A.? by Noam Chomsky | ZNet Article)
So by not, laser like, and doggedly focusing on Wall Street being protected by the Dems. in Congress since Obama’s inauguration, on them reducing the tax burden on their campaign contributors, while taxing the working class, we engage fail. By following every scrap of news that ushers out of that cesspool of criminal activity on all fronts, directly or via it’s fascist propaganda organs, FDL has become a ‘hapless’ amplifier of propaganda, and an artfully manipulated tool of the Kleptocracy. And that, is not good for democracy.
This is not meant so much as a critique, nor to be regarded as my questioning of the community’s and the front pagers’ motives, but merely something I’ve been observing, and bitching about, and getting grief for.
I’ve had my disagreements with some of Chomsky’s positions and views, so feel free to mix it up—that’s the way we broaden our understanding.
• • •
Additionally, I’d like to suggest this very insightful article When Facts Don’t Matter by Paul Street which has four subsections and starts out thusly:
“You know the drill by now with your dodgy right-wing Republican neighbor, colleague, co-worker, sibling, uncle, or cousin who says nice things about Glenn Beck and “the Tea Party” and who can’t stop spouting off about that great left wing radical Barack Obama and how he’s “ruining the country with socialism.” He believes and often boldly states all or some of the following things, most of which he has picked up from right wing media outlets like Fox News and talk radio:
* The (in fact militantly corporatist and military-imperialist Democratic Party) poses a radical Left threat to the capitalist system and the U.S. military.
* Barack Obama (not born in the United States) is a left Marxist and an ally of radical Islam
* Barack Obama took over the auto, financial, and health care industries, putting them under the direction of socialistic big-government power.
* The Federal Reserve and numerous other top federal agencies pose imminent “socialist” threats to democracy.
* The corporate media work for and are run by extreme liberals and leftists who loathe the nation’s conservatives and democratic values.
* The progressive income tax is a communist plot.
* Obama’s policies favor the poor, blacks, immigrants and Muslims over the rich and the hard working middle class
* Obama is an advocate of reparations to compensate black Americans for centuries of slavery….
Cognitive Dissonance: Rationalization Trumps Rationality
Manufacturing Misinformation
Left Vacuum
How to Respond”
I’m particularly curious about the ‘Left Vacuum’ and ‘How to Respond’ sections in terms of my own failures, but in this case taking account of the fact that we are not really having a conversation; we’re blogging.
The fallout from the ongoing Wall Street crime scene will show up next in almost every State and Municipality, to one degree or another, as well as rising staples and oil prices —another blessing from God’s own little helpers, and our own little helpers in Congress.
My beef is a question: Is FDL going to continue dissecting the ‘crimes’ of every Governor (esp. the Republican, if not Tea-party ones), or is it going to shake off its MSM narrative chasing, and, instead, attend to the conveniently disappeared crux of the matter?
What we have is one enemy, and a people divided. Let’s make sure we’re not at each other’s throat, instead of the enemy’s, okey?
crossed @ Mosquito Cloud



38 Comments

Your anti-FDL bias is really getting in the way. Really, to the point where you are making a complete fool out of yourself.
Point to where FDL does not actually show people where the banks have been doing everything possible to cover up their crimes, and where FDL hasn’t actually taken note of the utter lack of prosecution by the Department of Justice, by the SEC, by the White House and any other investigative or prosecutorial body.
There was an essay last night on the front page at FDL which pointed out that the system has completely broken down. By your pathetically biased logic, this would be Good News![TM] for the criminals, playing into their hands by propelling their propaganda.
If you’re so disgusted by this site, why are you still here, asking for more?
“Let’s make sure we’re not a each other’s throat” – surely that must be a joke coming from you, Missling.
I don’t mind.
The difference between us, Rayne, is that whereas you defer to the wisdom of Carl Icahn, and Francis Fukuyama, I’m partial to, say, that of Chomsky, and Francis of Assisi.
The PTB are trying to divert our attention from the crime scene. The response of a truly contrarian and activist Lefty site would be to double down on the source of the calamity, and doggedly point out the repercussions of that failure, which are now to be seen in Wisconsin. The front pagers should be mercilessly blasting the Dems for forsaking the American worker and the unions. This whole place should be up in arms leading an insurrection against the PTB/MSM/GOV Fascisti.
Is that too much to ask for? The Dem Party suckling at the peoples teat is not a child, Rayne, it’s a monstrosity.
Twain, rather than planting your one liners here, I’d suggest you go to this diary: http://my.firedoglake.com/welshterrier2/2011/02/19/wisconsin-it-aint-no-revolution-yet/ , and participate with abandon.
Or, you could say: fuck you missling, I’m offended by your style and whatever, but regarding the content of Chomsky’s and P.Street’s articles: here’s my view….
No, Twain’s not the kind of community member who would ever treat other members of the community that way.
You, however…
As somebody who claims to be a progressive you are bloody insistent on everybody being lockstep with your personal brand of groupthink. You demand everyone adhere to your dogma at the risk of being labeled a rightist heretic by you.
I don’t know who died and made you The-Source-Of-All-Things-Left-Who-Must-Be-Reckoned-With. About the only thing you can legitimately claim is the title of agent provocateur, and that role has worn very thin given your persistent nag-like concern trolling which borders on spamming.
So since Rayne one time, offered an agreement with Fukuyama and Icahn on one issue, she is always deferring to their wisdom on every topic?
But then I guess that is your standard as you expect everyone to go for Ron Paul even when it is a small subset of his views we might agree with.
“The Federal Reserve and numerous other top federal agencies pose imminent “socialist” threats to democracy.”
Part of that Fox talking point I’d have to agree with, sorta. The Federal Reserve is a a huge threat to democracy. It’s a fascist threat, but it’s a threat, perhaps the biggest we face.
Why does linking, and commenting on Chomsky and Paul Street makes me an agent provocateur? That, after all, is the essence of this diary.
yup.
No, dakine.
Ray McGovern turns his back on criminals Like H.Clinton, I suspect Rayne would love to have her picture taken with the Clintons.
Missling, it’s quite apparent you’ve never actually read anything posted here…! Please take your blinders off and read what is being posted…! Your nom de plume is most appropriate in the fact you’re missing the entire context…
I do not believe that you have made your case missling.
You’ve made an accusation but have provided zero evidence.
Did you miss the FDL live blog with the FCIC commissioner?
Have you missed FDL’s coverage of the housing/forclosure crisis, MERS, and robo-signing?
Have you missed Bill Black’s contributions at FDL?
Perhaps you just need to refine your argument and flesh it out a bit with examples but as things stand, I’m seeing lots of miss in this argument of yours.
“Overdrawn US cities could face financial collapse in 2011, defaulting on hundreds of billions of dollars of borrowings and derailing the US economic recovery.
But as cities are choosing between devastation and default, analysts say really it’s about the fall of American cities and the coming collapse of the Union.
It’s the reality America cannot escape, news of debt cash-strapped cities and states all over the country. All together it could amount to two trillion dollars and a bill many of them may not be able to pay.
“The problem of the state and local debt is more serious than the real estate bubble,” said Michael Hudson, Wall Street analyst and professor of economics at the University of Missouri…”
http://www.zcommunications.org/us-cities-face-financial-collapse-on-russia-tv-by-richard-d-wolff
Have I missed….
Would you fault me if I did, here at FDL, amongst the deluge of inconsequential (within the current context) MSM, congressional kabuki kibitzing, and partisan misdirection?
“So by not, laser like, and doggedly focusing on Wall Street being protected by the Dems. in Congress since Obama’s inauguration, on them reducing the tax burden on their campaign contributors, while taxing the working class, we engage fail.”
Laser like and dogged are bolded for a reason. I personally do not find that sort of attention being paid to what’s going on around us. Perhaps I’m overreacting, but then again, the list you assembled doesn’t seem to have left much of an impression on good portions of the community. Perhaps more of it is needed to make a greater impression? Because from where I stand, partisanship at this point in history is missing what popular anger is all about. What The Jasmine Revolutions should teach us, and most importantly what true leftist writers and commentators have to say, is missing. Their voices are sorely missing. WHY? And how can Chomsky and Street inhabit the same paragraph as ‘agent provocateur’?
I read Bill Black at his site, about MERS, and FCIC at Yves Smith’s:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/02/15844.html
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/02/why-are-more-than-half-of-the-fcic-interviews-being-withheld.html
I fully acknowledge I am a nobody with no ‘cred’, but honestly, if this is such a problem just shut down open access for anyone and everyone to post diary entries. It seems to me looking at this battle from the outside that it’s the site regulars and big shots who can’t tolerate slightly differing opinions.
Your comment reeks of projection – you’re doing the thing you accuse the author of doing, while the author is doing nothing more than expressing a view that doesn’t toe the line to your satisfaction.
That you get your news elsewhere seems neither here nor there w/respect to your assertions regarding FDL.
You provide no links to FDL in support of your assertions so I’ll provide a couple which do not support what you are saying.
FDL held a book salon with the FCIC’s Byron Georgiou to discuss the FCIC’s initial report. Note that Bill Black did attend the salon as a participant.
FDL Special Book Salon Welcomes Byron Georgiou, The Financial Crisis Inquiry Report: Final Report of the National Commission on the Causes of the Financial and Economic Crisis in the United States
Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:50 am Pacific time
Welcome Financial Crisis Inquiry Commissioner Byron Georgiou, and Host Ed Walker (FDL’s massacio).
http://fdlbooksalon.com/2011/02/01/fdl-special-book-salon-welcomes-byron-georgiou-the-financial-crisis-inquiry-report-final-report-of-the-national-commission-on-the-causes-of-the-financial-and-economic-crisis-in-the-united-states/
Further coverage related to the FCIC:
http://firedoglake.com/tag/fcic/
Yes indeed (I will read through every comment in a moment), but how many more facts do you need? Have you drawn a conclusion as to where the essence of the problem lies, and if so, can you point me to an organizational activity to create new, MSM busting frames, to be more than consumers of redundancies? I would like to see a summary conclusion, and action, or even a concerted effort and discussion aimed at results, and not merely consumption.
You may tell me that FDL is not about that, and so I am barking at the wrong tree, but that would be a conservative position to take, and you, at least, are definitely not a conservative, captjjyossarian.
Again, I’ve bolded laser like doggedness.
“Frankly, this looks like the effort the commission spent was misallocated and not sufficiently issue driven, and never got much past talking to Big Names.” — Yves Smith February 1st, 2011 at 12:26 pm responding to Commissioner Gerorgiou.
This is similar to my complaint about FDL. An inefficiency in utilization of it’s human resources. The informed intellect of the FDL community on the comment thread shines through brightly! But, so what? The Commissioners and their staff are a sharp bunch as well. Frank and Dodd, are tops, but they are using their intellect to screw us, while we are using FDL’s to what end? Or, is FDL in and of itself the end?
I just stumbled upon this comment of yours @ http://my.firedoglake.com/somethingthedogsaid/2011/02/19/water-cooler-how-know-nothing-is-the-tea-party-they-are-willing-to-cut-national-security-priorities/
“Bill, why does any of this matter?
I mean, it should matter but so long as we permit the rule of law to be ignored and allow our financial sector to steal to it’s hearts content, everything is gonna go to hell.
Who’s stopping the financial sector? Certainly not the Republicans and certainly not the Democrats.”
Well, what is stopping the R&D’s? Certainly not FDL…
missling:
You strike me as knowing what you want, but unsure of how to convey that message. Many would agree with some of your postings and many have. There is much kabuki, you are right, and at times it really is hard to tell where FDL stands. I can agree with that. For every story on something a Dem does, there are umpteen on the evil Republicans. It is very MSMish and I’ve voiced that opinion before that the internet has now become the new MSM in many ways. But if you read FDL closely and follow the names, you know who sounds like a Dem shill, and who sounds like a real progressive looking for change. The Dem shills, IMHO, are outnumbered. But you are right about one thing. No matter how much complaining is done online, the bottom line is, line up behind the Dems. That is true on almost every blog that says they are progressive, as posters can’t seem to be able to grasp that Dem and progressive are not the same and the big tent idea is a total failure. I read online yesterday, of a Dem that fired/laid off almost 100 of his staff, and replaced them with friends and family. On the supposed left/progressive blogs? Not. A. Word. If this man was Republican, it would have been posted about similar to Sarah Palin.
Partisan Democrats and Republicans will be the very last people to become part of the solution. With the exception of Ron Paul’s peeps I won’t even talk to Republicans. But I do lean on Democrats to bolt the party.
Obama was able to co-opt every ounce of leftward sentiment in the party in ’08. This he did on behalf of the Fascist Oligarchs. He is the most real Democrat in the country. Powerless progressives, insisting they are the real Democrats can’t see how pitiful and foolish they look. They are living in the past.
The Tea Party will not take over the Fascist Republican Party and the Progressives will not take over the Fascist Democratic Party. The Fascists will only be defeated when working Americans unite and attack them from the outside.
missling, it all comes down to Paul with you (Ron Paul), and while I won’t presume to speak for everyone, there is not much about the opportunist Mr. Paul that differs from the opportunist Mr. Obama. Both bait the progressive community (i.e. “rEVOLution”) and fist-fuck it in deed.
One only needs look at the list of legislation Paul has sponsored to understand why true progressives see right through him. He’s a John Bircher, pure and simple.
Trying to tear down FDL is (yet another) thinly veiled attempt to on your part to shill for Mr. Paul and his crackpot son, hoping to draw support from a site you know has more ACTUALLY progressive eyeballs than any other – or you wouldn’t be wasting your time here.
For me, there’s one rational conclusion: missling=PaulTroll.
But thanks for playing.
“I don’t know who died and made you The-Source-Of-All-Things-Left-Who-Must-Be-Reckoned-With.”
Spot on. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Far too much of this attitude from all quarters these days.
Peace to you and your loved ones.
Hello Mal,
what always intellectually stumps me, is how people are willing to relegate Chomsky, Zinn, Street, Cockburn, etc. to PRandian Trolldom?
how do you do that?
what I find most commendable about you, though I completely disagree, is that you are a man of action, while most here are filled with rhetorical gas. Wish I had some of your abilities.
cheers.
If anyone would recognize “rhetorical gas” it’s you, Missling. Why don’t you just post an entire diary that says nothing but “RON PAUL, RON PAUL”…..
Are you the one to speak, really?
I abhor the Randian model of Paul’s economics. I believe that what is being currently put into law by Congress is exactly that. It’s vicious, inhuman and should be stopped dead. In that respect the only difference between the Dems and Paul, is that if the Dems changed their rhetoric to reflect their actions, they would loose the party – even you.
What Paul offers, and the Dems don’t is to end the wars and dismantle the fascism at the FED and Treasury. So, in this respect, extremely unfortunately, Paul is the better bet, imo.
What abilities? That lets you off the hook. He has a plan, and figures out ways to try to implement it. You, on the other hand, find ways to out-radical everyone else so that there is no basis for you to work with anyone.
It’s like you walk with a 2-ton weight on your back, and then wonder why you walk so slow. Drop the weight!
Twain, I don’t even know what your politics are, who you vote for, and how you see the near and long term future shaping up. What are your solutions to the mess?
I, for instance, have a phone phobia. I’m good in person yet get the sweats whenever I have to make a call.
What surprises me about mal, is that while on the one hand he realizes the bankruptcy of Dem party, he feels it worthwhile to rehabilitate it – he finds redeeming values.
OTOH, where it comes to RP – stopping America’s adventurism – is not worthy enough to be viewed as a redeeming value, same for the FED.
The way things seem to be shaping up, we are heading for one of two scenarios: Revolution (bringing down a corrupt Gov) or Civil War – ouch.
Which do you think is preferable?
“I, for instance, have a phone phobia. I’m good in person yet get the sweats whenever I have to make a call.”
Write more.
“What surprises me about mal, is that while on the one hand he realizes the bankruptcy of Dem party, he feels it worthwhile to rehabilitate it – he finds redeeming values.”
Funny, Mal has made similar accusations about me because of my emphasis on the Democratic primaries and not wanting to require a primary challenger to run independent in the primaries.
“Revolution (bringing down a corrupt Gov) or Civil War – ouch. Which do you think is preferable?”
Revolutions — including the American one, for the record — tend to entail civil wars, as revolutions entail the overthrow of the social order WITHIN a given country.
jeffroby February 20th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
“Revolutions — including the American one, for the record — tend to entail civil wars, as revolutions entail the overthrow of the social order WITHIN a given country.”
That’s just glib. Give it a thought, please. We can either to greater or lesser extend be united against Kleptocracy, or we will be fighting the fight that will only benefit the PTB. Maybe it’s inevitable, but the thought of it ought to unnerve anyone enough to start thinking about ways to cut this eventuality off at the pass.
Missling, taking back our country needs to be done in a very smart way. I am always in awe of the stealth of the Republicans who have now dominated the scene for years, even without being in the majority. They simply plant their feet and refuse to budge while the Dems are wandering around like 4 year olds. Of course, the Rs played to the lowest common denominator and I would hope that we don’t do that. The near future doesn’t look too bright but we can certainly make some moves by ’12. My politics are waaaaaaay left and I’m not charmed by Ron, Rand or Ayn at all.
Welcome then, to perpetual wars from the waaaay ‘left’. I don’t get it.
As for the Rep’s being so good, thats crap. It’s the Dems. who are absolute quislings which makes the other side seem like the geniuses. There is a way outside the echo chamber of the two parties, both of which are intent on destroying us on behalf of the oligarchy.
Have it your way. You don’t listen so why should I bother. Later – or maybe not.
I have a couple of questions, but first I have to admit the only reason I clicked on this link is because of the number of comments
My question is: what is your problem?
A few days, or a week ago, there was another diary by you with a lot of comments, and I couldn’t understand what the deal was with the premise of the diary, or the comments back and forth. And I didn’t understand because I didn’t have the time to invest in comprehending what was going on. And now today there’s another one. You have two links. One about Wall Street corruption. And the second is something about … I’m not exactly sure what
What is your main point with this post specifically?
You ask a question
What are you accusing people of doing?
And for those of us not at your level of understanding, you’re going to have to cite examples
hey, john.
The first link is not merely about Wall street corruption, and the second is from a man who in 2006 laid out a case against Obama. But, since the MSM is the preferred source, and noone bothers with sites like ZNet it got us O.
You ask for citations, – of what? Of the absence of an effort to look forward into the future and begin figuring out how FDL could possibly become an actor, rather than an intellectually sharp yet passive audience?
I’ll ask you the same question I asked jeffroby: revolution or civil war, and can we, here, with all the brainpower do something to affect best outcomes?
Yes,I am the one to speak, and to call out those like you (and others here) who constantly try to claim it is this OR that, i.e., “Paul offers an end to the wars and the the FED, and that’s gonna have to be enough. So what if he would also take us out of the UN, do away with the minimum wage, outlaw unions, and on an on?”
Seriously, missling, anyone who believes a leader with such totalitarian aims (dreams?) on the homefront is not going to be warlike abroad is fooling themselves. Did you actually bother to read the
list of oppressionbills that Paul is so keen to enact?As for your earlier comment:
Not so fast. Please don’t merely skim through my more than 80 diaries in the past year and become convinced that you know what I believe, because you don’t. I find no redeeming qualities within the Democratic Party at the national level and had you actually read, for example, “Retaking the Democratic Party” in full, you’d know that. It – like the GOP – is completely corrupt and all I’m interested in is demonstrating that to the American electorate in order to get us beyond the bullshit purveyed by both parties in order to please their corporate masters.
So please, don’t compare me to the other Dem-loving (or tolerating, i.e., lesser-of-two-evils) types ’round these parts, in your effort to gain traction for Mr. Paul. In some cases crazy is just crazy – and Ron Paul is one such case.
I’ve thought about it for years, newcomer. Ruling bodies have a base of social support within their countries. When masses revolt, those social bases support the ruling regime and you get a civil war. See American revolution, French revolution, U.S. Civil War, Russian revolution, Loyalists vs. fascists in Spain 1930s, Chinese revolution, Vietnamese revolution, Cuban revolution, Nicaraguan revolution. Show me a real revolution (in which the social order is overturned, not merely regime change) where there was no civil war. If you can, your list will be shorter.
Calling me glib is rather substance-less.
From your diary
Normally the accepted way of accusing someone of something is by giving examples (citations)
I think if you use the search button, or whatever search engine feel comfortable with, you’ll find several examples of focusing on Wall Street
And here, to follow up with your conversation with Rayne
I gotta say this does seem agent provocateurish