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Eggs over easy with bacon.
An essay by Dan Froomkin at HuffPo describes How the Mainstream Press Bungled the Single Biggest Story of the 2012 Campaign. Longtime centrist Congress watchers Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein were virtually ignored by the press after their book exposing the “radical right-wing, off-the-rails lurch of the Republican Party, both in terms of its agenda and its relationship to the truth.” I have read their book, and it is well worth your time. And as an aside, apparently Froomkin is no longer Senior Washington correspondent at HuffPo, but is working on launching a new accountability journalism project.
In Don’t Let the Door Hit You On the Way Out, Joe, Charlie Pierce says,
I have detected a great disturbance in The Force. There seems to be a distinct drop in the fundamental dickishness of the universe for which I cannot account.No, wait. Now I get it. Joe Lieberman is leaving the Senate.
(Be sure to read the comments. Hilarious!)
Republican governors are under increasing pressure from conservatives to reject as much as they can of the Affordable Care Act. Conservatives Press the States to Keep Fighting “ObamaCare. “Resistance at the state level is the best tool that remains for Republican critics of the healthcare law since Obama’s reelection essentially guarantees that it will not be repealed.”
A big victory for torture: The military judge in the 9/11 trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others granted a government request to make all mention of alleged torture in the court classified. The defense called the ruling ‘shameful.’
I’m passing up the eggs this morning because I’m lunching with friends at a neat downtown spot. But there’s plenty to go around. What’s your pleasure?
(Pubic domain photo)
224 Comments
Good morning pups, and happy Friday!
Good Morning All!
Boss is making me work for a living today, so I may be a bit scarce.
Boxturtle (Eating and living indoors. They’re important)
Thanks, msmolly. Raising the age for receiving Medicare will be expensive, so I expect the wingnuts to demand it. It’s not going to happen, imho.
Damn, working on a Friday? That’s too bad.
I’m gonna go get on the exercise bike. I can manage to prop the laptop on the handlebar bracket made for a magazine, and the open screen fits just between the handlebars. The bracket gets in the way of the space bar a bit, but it works. The iPad didn’t work as well.
So I can hang out here and still feel virtuous.
Good Morning msmolly, BT, and fellow firepups.
I loved Charlie Pieces’ putdown of Joe. (My contempt for Joe Liebermann is endless).
Your link to the Holy Joe thread is bad, btw.
Boxturtle (SLOWLY working through the links)
I am safely past the age cutoff, but I worry for younger people. I have a choir friend who is limping and using a cane because she has to wait for Medicare to get a knee replacement. That’s unconscionable to me. Fortunately I’ve always had good insurance, but millions like my friend suffer, and now they want to make people suffer an extra couple of years.
Thanks, let me see what’s up.
To Joe Liber-assface – Kthxbai!
Mann and Ornstein weren’t ignored, they were shunned.
Fixed, I think. The link looked fine in the “edit” window, but I replaced it anyway.
One of the lines fed those coming to the age to apply for social security is that you will get a higher payment if you hold off and don’t retire until later. I retired, and kept parttime employment, meaning I got almost as much as I had been making before, which works really well. Also it reduces the strain of working, which made my life nicer.
It’s wonderful that the pundits who are featured constantly are the ones that have been wrong continuously for their entire careers. The ones who get it right are an embarrassment.
Exactly right, deliberately. The MSM can’t stand anyone tinkering with their “balance.”
Chris Hayes had them on his show. Apparently at first they got a lot of attention, but then the doors slammed. And these are far from liberal guys, and have been around for a LONG time and have lots of credibility.
You do have a limit you can earn before it begins to reduce your benefit, but it’s all still there and you collect it later.
I didn’t retire until 67, so I can earn as much as I want. I’ve only done a bit of “on call” work for my former employer, which was a nice bit of extra, but fortunately I don’t need to.
My first thought was that most of the folks impacted by raising the medicaid age will be republicans. I can’t figure out why the GOP wouldn’t step up to protect a key group of reliable GOP voters at a very modest cost. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
And I don’t believe Durbin for a second. I think the Dems are getting extreme pressure and they want their interest groups to back off while they sell us out. I don’t think they’ll fool anyone except maybe AARP and only because AARP wants to be fooled.
Boxturtle (Backstabbers)
Richard Wolff is my hero this morning. (yeah, still watching MoJoe…my mantra, no work until daylight.)
This year the amount goes up to a little more than $40K, which is quite a smidgen. Though I don’t do it, that’s livable for most of us.
You have a stronger stomach than I have.
MUCH better, thanks.
I think we should throw a Holy Joe party at FDL. Maybe run a contest where the winner gets to slam the door to the Senate chambers behind Joe as he walks out for the last time.
Boxturtle (proceeds from contest to Occupy)
Yup. Politicians in general and GOPers in particular do not like people destroying their fantasy worlds.
They didn’t like Nate Silver either and we can see where THAT got them. Facts are facts.
Boxturtle (The GOP could have won this last election if they’d recognized reality earlier)
Thanks for the postnhost msmoll.
Good morning all.
What was interesting (in that article, or another one I read) is that the chamber was half empty when he gave his farewell speech. I thought that was funny.
Now I wanna see John McLame go, too.
How would the right have won? It was about the damage they had done, not their realization of it but the voters’ realization.
All the correct way of putting that they are working against the public will not work to get votes.
Oh, they’re waking up. But they think all they need is better messaging, and they’re continuing to fight against things the public overwhelmingly wants.
I do hope they self-destruct, but we’ll all have to suffer for their intransigence until they do.
Hiya, oldnslow. Still having chilly rides to work?
I was lying in bed thinking last night about local evidence of climate change. It has been in the 40s here, lows in the low-30s, and maybe an inch of snow, and it is mid-December in NW Indiana. Althoug 40s are chilly, it felt almost balmy yesterday mid-day.
Just weird.
The room would have been full if they’d let the lobbyists in. ESPECIALLY the insurance company lobbyists and AIPAC.
I wonder what message (if any) Holy Joe took from the empty chamber?
Boxturtle (He probably assumed everyone was out Xmas shopping.)
It sorta reminded me of the piece I posted last week about Romney’s prompt descent into near obscurity. I don’t think he’s probably figured out what happened even YET.
Good morning msmolly.
“the GOP could have…” Gees BT, there’s a when pigs fly out of my ass come back if ever there was one.
Ohio was very close. I think if Mitt had shown even the slightest grasp of reality, it would have gone the other way. Or maybe if Ryan hadn’t made so many obviously cynical visits to soup kitchens and such.
Rmoney tried make it seem like austerity would create jobs. He believed it, despite the evidence. If he’d come up with a jobs program based on the evidence, even if he forgot it once elected, that might have done it as well.
Boxturtle (Above opinion worth exactly what you paid for it)
Worth reading, as Taibbi always is:
Outrageous HSBC Settlement Proves the Drug War is a Joke
I almost added it to the bottom of today’s post, but I hadn’t read it all yet.
Drove the car the last 2 days. Have been feeling poorly the past week or so.
Having the oatmeal, and it’s good. Funny, every clip on the news of LIEberman’s farewell focuses on him, not the empty Senate chamber. To be fair, it’s usually empty no matter who’s speaking, members can watch on CSpan.
I don’t think he cares anymore. His political career is toast. He’s just happy the tax return issue has gone away.
And so are the other 1%ers, as I doubt he did anything one his taxes they didn’t. People were starting to look at some of the obscure confusing deductions once they say how much money was there.
Boxturtle (Before Corporate News, some reporter would have made a major scoop on that story)
The whole election was close, but reading that as the right failing to message, rather than most of the public seeing their actions for what they are, seems pretty wrong. The right promised jobs in 2010, and ignored anything related to making jobs after elected. That was an undeniable fact.
Not good. What’s going around here, that I have a pinch of, is lasting awhile and not knocking me out, but not fun anyway.
It’s not a joke, it’s a fraud. Lot of good people locked up for long terms and denied voting rights when they get out. Private prisons. An excuse to use commandos in South America.
The Drug War ought to be called the Law Enforcement Employment act. It’s the biggest jobs program we have.
Boxturtle (if the drug war ended today, how many cops would have no work tomorrow? 40%?)
Oh dear…hope nothing serious. Get thee to a doctor!
Worth reading,… Yes it was, thanks.
Fat chance.
Police departments get to keep confiscated cash, so big incentive. I didn’t realize that until I read Taibbi’s article. Followed a link to a 2010 Indiana case. Even though no drugs were found, cops kept the cash the guy won in an accident settlement for more than a year.
May I just say that I am glad my warning about falling satellites was not needed, yesterday.
Jeebus. Trying to pay the IRS online is like pulling teeth. They make it really effing difficult.
My little 17k person city has a better online utility payment system, FFS.
SMH
A fellow soprano in the choir has had some sort of virus for going on 6 weeks. Just about the time she thinks it’s gone, she gets dizzy, nauseated, and sweaty again. Her doc says she just has to wait it out.
It’s going to fall on December 21st. It will land on SPF#4 at Fukushima. The rods will drop, jumbled, into water, creating a flash steam explosion that will scatter fissile material into the atmosphere, poisoning the very air we breath.
The Mayans were right.
You’d think they would want to make it easy-peasy. I pay almost everything online, except my hairdresser. I do send in a physical check for my property taxes, because I can enclose a SASE and get a physical receipt for in my income tax folder.
That’s rotten. Here I’ve found a AARP free program, with real trained accountants, that will do the figures for you, all you have to do is wait in line even if you show up early.
Only thing I pay by check is my rent, so very similar. The rest of it is online.
I was just ranting about them making it so difficult. You’d think they would want to take my money and run. Sheesh.
(Yes, I was ranting out loud. No, there’s nobody here but me, the dog, and the cat)
Had to look up both of those acronyms. Should have used them yesterday.
Those N.Korean scientists will then say they got it right.
It’s easy for me to pay my city bills in person, also taxes. The advantage of small towns.
I do my taxes online each year. Been doing that since 2004. Looks like I blundered on my 2010 return, though, and neglected to report some contract income.
They really like keeping the cars, too. one dept in Ohio used to have a Ferrari testarosa as a chase car.
Boxturtle (Having a Ferrari painted in cop Black & White was just WRONG)
Lol. I was tempted to put a (h/t Crane-Station) at the end of my comment.
The use of the acronyms was certainly a hat-tip to her and the very successful post she wrote on Wednesday.
Horrible, isn’t it? it’s almost like they don’t want you to pay.
Boxturtle (Were I the IRS, I’d make paying as easy as possible. I want paid)
Good morning everyone.
Thank you for the post msmolly.
Better hope it scatters. If it stays in a pile, we’ll likely get an incursion before the steam explosion.
Boxturtle (I think we’re lucky if the SPF in #4 isn’t fissioning now)
You had disappeared yesterday when I posed the question “What happens if it falls?” – referring to the pool.
So, BT, what happens if it falls?
I think a lot of people will die as a direct result of these cuts. Social Security is not entitlement; people have a right to it because it’s their fucking money, and SS cuts won’t contribute a penny to the deficit.
Agree with Box at #37, but if I start a War-on-Drugs rant I’ll never stop, and at #37 oldnslow: take care, lots of people seem to be getting sick these days.
A great post-n-host, thanks!
I have used tax software for years, too. Started with MacinTax, which morphed into something else and something else, and then into TurboTax. I used to install the software from a CD, but now I just use the online version, and it saves your old return and pre-fills the new one. I get my (usually) refund in a matter of a few days, and can download the forms to (usually) pay my state tax.
Just found out this morning was the peak of the Geminid meteor showers, oh well, it was cloudy here. Interesting timing for satellite watches.
Box Turtle, I am definitely in on that party for Joe.
What can I bring to the party?
Great, wasn’t it. Sorta put my grab-bag of links to shame! That’s why it is valuable to have other voices here.
It’s obvious from listening to the under table recording of Rmoney’s rant against the 47%, that the concept of the wingnuts that people are not entitled to eat, or to have health care, is widely accepted although totally wrong. This cannot exist outside a media that feeds its victims complete misconceptions of the value of humanity itself.
Chris Hayes makes the point on his show of calling them “social insurance” and makes it clear almost every time that he refuses the term “entitlements.”
Although in the strict sense of the word, I paid into them and I am “entitled” to the benefits. But it just makes them seem like some sort of gifts I didn’t earn, and that’s why the term is so popular, I think. If they can take away something and make me feel like a welfare queen for thinking I’m “entitled” to it, it must seem OK.
/rant
I use an online-only company called TaxAct. Very easy walk-through of the process, and since I file a fairly simple return I can usually go through the whole process in 30-40 minutes.
I pay $12.99 a year for their Deluxe service, which allows me 24/7 access to a tax attorney for questions, pays them to keep all my past returns on file, and covers free-file of state tax returns (which was helpful in California).
It’s a pretty cool tool.
It was clear here, but I forgot to go look. I am surrounded by tall trees, but I could have walked or driven to a clear spot. Drat.
I guess the peak is during daytime here, but there still are lots of meteors to see after dark.
Oil May Be Seeping From Deepwater Horizon Site.
or Boxturtle (I think we’re lucky if the SPF in #4 is the only unit fissioning now)
Tar? Feathers? Rack? 4 horses?
Put Joe in the stocks in some ghetto in Kabul for a week.
That’ll be enough for me.
That was not a rant msmolly, it was the truth that you just spoke about.
I dislike that word “entitlements” intensely. It was my savings program.
Are you sure you want to know?
Okay, my guess.
The contents of the pool will fall all the way to the first floor. Large amounts of highly radioactive water will flood all over the place. SPF water is not normally that radioactive, but I’m certain that numerous fuel rods are busted and their contents have leaked into the pool.
The fuel rods will likely land in a pile. Remember, they are rod assemblies not individual rods and rectangular in shape. Not likely to roll. Fission will begin again, likely in many places and the possibility of a nuclear incursion would be quite high.
The rods will no longer be cooled. Oh they might be able to spray water from a LONG distance, but not enough to make a difference. Either by incursion or by fire (the rods will burn in air if uncooled), the contents of the fuel rods will be scattered.
There’s more fisson products in those rods than has been released in all the other accidents and bomb tests combined. The entire site would have to be evacuated. Without people, the redneck rigging that is keeping the rest of the site going will fail, and the rest of the SPF’s will go.
Everything from Toyko on North would have to be evacuated at least. Pacific seafood would likely be inedible for decades. Cancer rates across the Northern Hemisphere would skyrocket.
Boxturtle (And congress would be debating abortion restrictions)
I really think that the main problem with the whole debate is that our Congresscritters are very disconnected from their electorate.
It’s very easy to sit on Capitol Hill and say ‘A 2% cut across the board won’t hurt anyone’, but very difficult to meet a constituent who would lose the ability to pay for their life-saving medication if their benefit was cut $30 a month.
These guys and gals in Congress are no longer connected to us here in the trenches. They’re thinking in abstract terms, and not being realistic about the damage they may cause.
It sucks.
Well, I’ve had a lot of requests for his liver on a stick. :-)
Boxturtle (People like the strangest things. Liver. Squash. Brussels sprouts)
All of your suggestions would suit me fine.
I am not going to miss that whiney voice at all.
That’s a perfectly sound plan. By putting your income into owning some basic things, in my case my home, you can make it enough to live on.
While some may deny that the 47% comment lost Romney the election, I can tell you that when my parents heard it (Dad is 89, Mother is 87), they snapped the TV off and vowed not to vote for him. These people worked and paid in all their lives, and they were not amused.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVlkZVAw8Gc
Fuck.
And because of the re-districting after 2010, most of them sit in very safe seats.
Every thing you said about the disconnect is right on, I wonder many times how they would react if we had the power to take away their retirement benefits, their healthcare, and part of that $174,000 salary.
There are actually better abortion restrictions. Oh, did I not apprehend your meaning there? Too long in TX with the sex ed about abstaining only.
They heard it. For those who only listen to Faux news, there’s no such revelation.
I’m proud to say that my town teaches a full slate of sex education, including all different birth control and protection methods.
The next town over, Taylor, had the highest teen STD rate in the country in 2010. They teach abstinence only.
Pisses me off every time I hear the term.
That is scary, BT. YIKES.
Ruth, one of my worries, justified or not, is that the home mortgage deduction is “on the table” in these negotiations. I know there would be a lot of anguish with many Americans if that should happen but I think that is part of the $800 billion that Boehner is proposing but is too afraid to say it out loud.
Because most of them are millionaires, so they don’t come in contact with ordinary people.
Whatever you think of Cory Booker, his week eating on the equivalent of food stamps (SNAP) was an eye opener. And he had a running start, because he didn’t have to buy things like paper products and dish detergent and such out of his week’s allowance.
You can bet the mortgage interest deduction is in play. It does not effect rich people. Loss that deduction = very big middle class pay cut.
Well said, just another way to slam the middle class and they do not give a damn for the reasons you cited.
I have no doubt that anything Boehner proposes will undermine economic security for working people. That’s what is required by the masters he serves.
Whatever stresses wage earners adds to their debt. The debt profits the financial institutions that push economic disasters onto workers. Simple equation, as monstrous as it is. Follow the money.
Heck, I sugarcoated it. I didn’t mention the 3+ blobs of unlocated corium that have already escaped containment. Or the groundwater impact that would likely render Japan unable to produce anything edible north of Tokyo. Nor did I mention “north of Tokyo” is HIGHLY optimistic and you can make a case that all of Honshu would have to be evacuated.
Boxturtle (Nor did I mention the Jet Stream that passes over the most populated areas of America)
Eventually the greed of the financial institutions will undermine the entire system.
As income and resources are further restricted for the middle class, the middle class will need to borrow more. As they borrow more, they will fail to meet some of their obligations. As they fail to meet some of their obligations, their credit-worthiness will decline. As their credit-worthiness declines, they will become less able to obtain credit. As they become less able to obtain credit, they spend less and the economy shrinks.
The economy will shrink in a massive way if the MOTU keep this up.
What you’re talking about is a life-altering event for every single person living in the Northern Hemisphere.
Things caught in the water cycle will likely impact the whole planet…this is a scary scenario. Awful.
So true. And much of what the financial institutions own, already undermined, is Toxic Waste, worth much less than they will admit.
Sorry to be so negative. Value needs to be brought back into our monetary system, and work properly rewarded.
Now you’re hinting at how far I think it’s gone. It is deeply alarming. The worst is TEPCO’s inability to deal honestly with, not just the Japaense people but all of us that WILL be affected by their catstrophic response to this perfectly predictable event.
I recall that chernobyl is inside a large container. Cannot imagine why this is not being incorporated in Japan.
TEPCO’s response seems perfectly predictable, too. Move that scenario to the US and think about what the response would likely be. Hell, think of the response to the BP disaster.
you can thank one Albert Gore, Jr for that :D
Morning All
Kris – great story out there of how a then 12 year old son of Archaeologist ‘cracked’ the Mayan alphabet/symbol code, with his Mac.
Up until that time, could only translate less than 40% of it
Imagine the new phenomenon that will arise from a complete Fukushima disaster.
Nuclear winds. The Gulf Stream will carry waste all across the globe.
Thank you for good company, I have a necessary errand to run now.
Yup. We have to hope it’s life-altering, not life-ending. People worry about cancer, they should be worrying about reproduction.
Boxturtle (Test tube babies might become the only way)
Fat Al Gore is Fat.
And you pointed me to that kiddo’s story a couple months ago :) It was pretty damn interesting.
Soon the water from our taps will produce heat and light without us having to ignite it!
Boxturtle (Don’t worry Citizens. Radiation prevents tooth decay!)
Gotta run out for a bit, pups. Interesting thread this morning. Talk amongst yourselves, and I will peek in later.
You’re exactly right. The assets on the books are worthless. You can’t squeeze blood from a stone, right? How are these banks going to cash in assets in a broken economy with no money to yield up?
Some day soon the banksters will get this.
I couldn’t possibly make a baby with a test tube. I’m not attracted to them at all.
Stupid Al Gore. Did anybody mention Al Gore is fat and therefore not to be listened to?
=)
See my comment at 105.
I’m not sure I blame TEPCO as much as I blame the governments actually calling the shots. Even if they TRIED to tell the truth, they’d be ruthlessly suppressed.
JG will never admit the full gravity of the situation. If they were to do so, they’d have to evacuate much larger areas, likely displacing more people than they can house.
Boxturtle (For starters)
Not to mention that it would open the JG up to financial obligations and reparations that they could not begin to cover.
Sheer size. Chernobyl will be one of the largest structures ever created and that’s just for one reactor. Here we have six reactors, in a earthquake/tsunami zone, in an area more highly contaminated than Chernobyl. First, design a structure than can hold everything safely. Then come up with a construction plan that doesn’t require kamikaze workers.
And remember, the melt stayed in the reactor in Chernobyl. They’re outside containment here. You have to build a roof walls and a floor. Imagine what it will take to safely dig UNDER the melts to install a floor.
Boxturtle (If you solve those issues, there’s a whole ‘nother batch waiting)
To do that you’d have to know exactly where the melts are. I doubt they know that much.
They’re already there. They can’t possibly pay for what they already need to do.
Boxturtle (Being broke by billions and the same as being broke by trillions)
They do not know where the melts are. In fact, there’s no real method for locating them. This is the best shot they’ve got.
You’ll notice I said 3+ blobs of corium. There’s no reason to assume that the corium for any given melt is in one piece.
Boxturtle (We know NOTHING about the behavior of hot fresh corium)
Thanks a lot Box. I know a little about a vast number of things but…… I’m going to lay down now.
feeeecccccckkkkkk
via the twitter:
PoliceFireEMS @PoliceFireEMS
BREAKING NEWS: Newtown, CT – Active shooter(s) at a school – Multiple victims, CT State Police ESU and Chopper en route.
@TheMatthewKeys is on the scene
Shit.
Looks like it might be an elementary school or a kindergarten.
Tim Shorrock @TimothyS
TEPCO nuke utility issues “frank admission” of collusion with regulators, accepts blame for Fukushima disaster. Asahi: http://bit.ly/UXPMy7
Matthew Keys @TheMatthewKeys
[Newtown school shooting] WVIT on the phone with hospital spokesperson, says three victims transported to hospital from school
Matthew Keys @TheMatthewKeys
[Just in] FOX Connecticut – Victim in Newtown school shooting has “numerous gunshot wounds” – http://bit.ly/Z5K81k
MSNBC and CNN now live simulcasting local affiliates on scene.
Matthew Keys @TheMatthewKeys
[Just in] WNBC-TV: As many as 4 adults injured in Newtown, Connecticut school shooting
Matthew Keys @TheMatthewKeys
RT @connpost: Police are questioning a handcuffed suspect in connection with the Newtown school shooting.
Matthew Keys @TheMatthewKeys
RT @NBCConnecticut: Three people were transported from the Newtown school by ambulance to Danbury Hospital.
Translation: We’re dead anyway and we want to make sure the government that will protect our executives is not blamed. Besides, it’s already in the public record.
Boxturtle (would be more impressed if “accepts responsibility for cleanup” were said)
Clackamas Mall in Portland, then Cal State Fullerton, and now a school in Newton, CT, all in one week’s time….
…shit’s off the damn chain.
Sad, words fail.
When I said talk among yourselves I didn’t mean THIS! How awful.
But let’s not talk about guns. /S
Looks like no children killed. Woman being interviewed now by a local affiliate is saying the principal was killed and others shot.
And I’m spent. No more shooting news for me.
How bout them Dodgers?
That’s what I took from it. TEPCO execs being hung out to dry. The company has been nationalized anyway, not like their reputation matters anymore.
Matthew Keys @TheMatthewKeys
[Newtown school shooting] WVIT interviewing parent who says principal was shot and killed in elementary school shooting
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Thanks for the Fuku explanations, BT. I’ve read that a Chernobyl type containment structure can’t work at Fukushima because of he risk of explosion from the continuing reactions, but I admit that I don’t fully understand the science behind that theory. I am staying out of the rain now because I believe that releases started again after the last earthquake. No net good will ever come from nuclear power.
Oh, and my children’s right to go to school without being shot outweighs anyone else’s right to own a gun.
Hear hear!
Not hung out to dry. No criminal charges, no testifying under oath publicly as long as no reference to current politicians involvement is made.
Boxturtle (kinda like the deal our DoJ would have struck is this had happened here)
I have to resort back to this on cause it sure fits today.
SIFUABS Sorry this came along on your dime msmolly.
Those Japanese learned capitalism so well after WWII. Our Government must be proud of them.
If things get hot enough, the water they’re using will dissociate into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen will accumulate at the top of the structure and await the first spark. This is what happened at least once each to reactors 1-4 during the early parts of the crisis, blowing out the walls and roofs.
Boxturtle (Can’t vent the hydrogen because then you’d vent the Radioactives)
Huh? What country are you in? Go buy your kid a gun and a lunchbox holster and teach him to return fire!
Boxturtle (THAT’S the American way!)
Morning Pups, great read msmolly,
Can we believe it?
In WI, Walker claims because of $5+M cost to taxpayers he will not sign a bill removing same day voter registration.
Not said: In Wisconsin bills that are not signed or vetoed by a governor immediately become law within six days of landing on his desk.
What a weasel.
26 Dead in Connecticut at a school.
Mother of God.
Well, hello, people. Rather a depressing newsday. Appropriate weather here; gray and drizzly.
I have the news live from CT on. Just horrifying. Yes, let’s send our kids to school strapped, so they can take out the crazy shooter themselves./s
Unbelievable.
Kindergarten through fourth grade.
I was a bit premature with my description of the morning. Awful is insufficient. I am attempting to contact my State Rep about his vote for concealed carry and past refusal of instituting better gun control and other lax gun initiatives recently passed by our R legislatures.
Oh christ. I hadn’t seen anything, been watching History Channel.
Dear Gawd, what the fuck?!!?
More Gun Horrors and Unanswered Questions
I went looking to see if Pierce had something up, because he’s written about this repeatedly over the past several weeks and months.
First reports had two killed. Now I’m hearing 27. I am even more horrified because my daughter is an elementary school teacher.
Place sounds like a war zone. I’m speechless.
Good on you, nonquixote.
18 children, and who knows if that number is done rising.
I’m seeing now that the shooter was a 20 year old male. There is a 2nd person in custody in relation to the shooting.
MSNBC reporting 30 school children stabbed by an attacker in China in amongst this bash of news coverage.
Gov’s spokesperson reporting now
Yousef Munayyer @YousefMunayyer
Shooter today likely fired more bullets in 1 mass shooting, than ENTIRE police force of GERMANY in an ENTIRE YEAR http://nbcnews.to/UY3n8G
Retweeted by Asher Wolf
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I saw that story on facebook just a few minutes ago.
… ?
I dunno. No words.
Prediction: This will not result an any new controls on guns. it WILL result in schools being redesigned to be like prisons, but with the goal of keeping people out, not in. More cops in schools.
And it wouldn’t shock me a bit to see the real wingnuts use this to make a case for requiring school teachers to be armed. And then use it as another reason for charter schools when the public schools refuse.
Boxturtle (and we’ll be assured that the deaths were not preventable)
Someone on Pierce’s post is trying to equate the stabbings in China with the shootings. The old, “guns don’t kill people, people do” argument. No equivalence.
FAUX crime specialist emphasizing no one apparently “there” to confront the gunner “before,” police got there. Afraid you are likely correct.
Apparently the school had issued a policy not long ago that it was to be locked down after 9:30 a.m. and any arriving children had to be walked in after that and signed in.
So like a prison already, IMHO.
I have little hope that gun control will do any good. They’ve been trying to control Heroin for decades, yet I could probably get as much as I want within 8 hours of starting to look.
Why is America so angry? Perhaps some of it is the helplessness felt trying to deal with a system stacked against us. And culturally, we seem more inclined to lash out than to talk.
Boxturtle (Thinks we should be looking at mental health programs)
Wow. Pete Williams reporting that in their searches related to the gunman, police have found the shooter’s mother or father dead in his/her home in NJ.
I have no insight into why, but recall that this pattern has occurred before; shooter kills parent(s) then goes off to commit mass murder. With shooters usually killing themselves or killed by police, hard to research their mental state, I suppose.
Box turtle – yes, mental health in this country sucks. Gotta be some kind of mental health issue for these people.
So sad, and so infuriating.
Once they start shooting, their mental state is less of a concern to me than making them stop shooting.
Add Mental Health to Obamacare. Make it a requirement that you chat with a mental health professional monthly if you own a gun. Give said professional the power to have police take away guns from someone unstable. Require said professionals signature for a gun permit.
Boxturtle (I think Texas just declared war on me. :-( )
I think the question “Why is America so angry?” is a good one. There are countries with higher gun ownership and very low homicide.
Gunman’s mother worked at school is being reported came to the school after killing his father.
Yeah, riiiiight. Mr. won’t even allow a squirt gun toy at our place. No shooting video games. Nada. The more of these shooting incidents I see, the more I’m glad that I deferred to Mr.’s strict anti-gun rules.
Hey, Box Turtle, mental health is just for prevention. My reference to not being able to “use” shooters for research is just a reference to figuring out prevention, not for the shooters’ benefit.
Well, as to facts…what seems clearest from watching news people is that nobody really knows what the facts are yet.
(hmmm. a connection to the Benghazi “scandal”: in any kind of chaotic violent event, what appear at first to be facts often turn out not to be. Just sayin’, John mcCain, Susan Collins.)
May those souls find eternal peace.
Jeez, how unspeakably horrible. I guess today will be a no news day for me. I’m a wimp when it comes to hearing about children being hurt in any way. It’s just too disturbing.
When A Scary Brown Mexican with Automatic weapons and an AQ flag shows up at your door to burn your house down, rape your children, eat your dog, and sell you into slavery, DON’T come crying to me!
Boxturtle (You should stock copkiller bullets too, the SBM might have body armor)
You ever notice a pattern. That these incidents nearly always occur in upper crust white neighborhoods.
Who killed the father?? The gunman’s mother? Huh? Did you leave out a word. I can’t find anything (yet) on the gunman’s parents.
I raised my kids before video games, but they never had toy guns. Not sure about squirt guns, but no guns or war toys or such. Ever.
From NBC:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-14/newton-ct-elementary-school-shooting-tally-rises-27-dead-whom-14-children
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/ryan-lanza-facebook-page_n_2302541.html
Brad Friedman @TheBradBlog
Phew! No need to take action then. RT @EricBoehlert Fox confirms this was NOT the act of “jihadists”
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What?
Capitalism is the a big part of the problem, I’d say. People are constantly working, hopeless and pissed because they are stuck in a cycle of debt and anxiety. The stress of that destroys important relationships. So, there is not enough emotional support for people who need it the most, families become sick, people feel lonely and angry, and some act out violently.
The worst part is, we don’t even talk about why everyone is so stressed out all the time.
BINGO !
I like this:
The Right Day to Talk About Guns
I promise I won’t. Heh, but then when all that happens, I’ll be too busy with other things to bother cryin’ to anyone. :>
The sentence as nonquixote wrote it didn’t make sense.
Apparently the shooter’s mother is a teacher at the elementary school.
I think it will be several hours until it’s all sorted out, so until then we should treat any news items (like an “unaccounted for” classroom) as speculation.
Remember, nearly all of the “conclusions” about Columbine were wrong.
A chilling tweet from the shooter:
Ryan Lanza @Ryan__Lanza
i would actually love if the world ended in 2 weeks.. #fucklife
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Good point, thanks.
Matter of fact, his whole Twitter feed is chilling…
Watching here: CBS live coverage
Parent of 4th grader just interviewed and said the female principal (now dead) fought with the suspect and then he proceeded to his mother’s classroom and most of the child victims are likely kindergarteners from that classroom.
Did you get a chance to check your schedule to post OE on Jan 2?
Careful. That twitter account appears to belong to someone with the same name. He seems to have just tweet that he’s being spammed. Can’t tweet if you’ve been dead for a couple of hours.
Let’s reserve judgment on anything that appears to be “fact.” Andy Carvin tweeted that a facebook page attributed to the shooter may be falso, also.
Obama: …we’ll have to take meaningful action…
Appeared to be tweets from the weeks prior, but you’re right, I can’t spot the spamming on Twitter.
looks like that twitter feed did belong to the killer – FB page is kid with same name.
amidst the horror, I am amazed watching the kid with the iphone, Matthew Keys (posted his twitter earlier) is still besting the multi billion dollar TradMed by about 15 minutes – somehow managing it without interviewing those poor surviving children outside the school
This isn’t the world we should be living in. We’ve got to create something better. I’m sick about this incident.
Yada yada yada. Sure we will.
…regardless of politics… msmolly. I am so reassured.
My thought is how our state just cut teacher pay (collective bargaining) seriously and our county school consortium just made teachers pay for another $1K annually out of pocket, for worse health insurance than they had been getting before. How many kids were protected by teachers today?
Oh, yes, I did, and it looks clear. So if you really don’t want that date, I’ll be happy to takeit. thx!
‘Tis yours, Ma’am.
Charlie Pierce made that point several times in his piece today. Yeah, public school teachers.
Unconfirmed, but a female principal who physically tried to stop the shooter? Yeah, those teachers don’t earn their pay./s
Not that this should be an expected part of a teacher’s workday, but still. When have teachers not stepped up in disasters?
My daughter is an elementary school teacher. I’m not sure how reassured she feels right now.
ha..scrolling up, I see it was you who put up the comment about the principal fighting with the gunman. credit where due!
Good answer. I can’t think of a better place to start.
Boxturtle (People who have nothing to live for frequently find something to die for)
Perhaps I missed one, but has any school shooting anywhere been the work of Jihadists?
Boxturtle (Expecting a tweet shortly confirming it wasn’t the Iranians)
Good. But this being Obama, I want to know his defination of “meaningful”, “take”, and “action”.
Boxturtle (Thinking about it, I want his defination of “we” too)
oh c’mon Ms Molly, he cried doncha know
…and so did William Hurt’s character in Broadcast News
I am just wondering how many children need to die before this country admits that the gun thing is totally out of control, and it’s our problem, not somebody else’s.
Boehner cries all the time. You must REALLY trust him! :-)
Boxturtle (I’ve seen William Shatner cry on cue. Anybody can do it)
My daughter has been texting me about it. When she had a break at lunch, they were reporting “only” 3 dead. Then when school was over she heard about the total (27 or 28).
Watching the news, she got teary and of course her girls (ages 10 and 12) asked why, and she of course had to tell them.
They are all in shock. Not that these things are ever easy to hear, but this one hits very close to home.
The “guns don’t kill people” folks are already coming out of the woodwork.
Well, we’re up to over 150,000 and nobody with the power to do anything is admitting anything. We’re either going to have to add a zero to that number or wait until someone shoots the Next Beloved Child Star.
There is a politician with a kid in that school, Rep John Frey (R,Ridgefield). He’s also the GOP whip. Wonder what he’s going to say…and do.
Boxturtle (Things change for GOPers when something hits close to home)
I am very close to a 35 yr, K to 1st retired teacher. Called to check, kind of same response, everything is sort of on hold as the story unfolds.
I am sickened by the children and parents being filmed and shown on the video I’ve seen as they were trying to go home, etc.
*Puts on flameproof suit*
Guns don’t kill, people do. Claiming draconian gun control will work, never mind actually reduce the violence is putting our head in the sand.
We have been trying for almost 100 years to stop Heroin, used by about .2% of the population regularly. We’ve been spectatularly unsuccessful even though we’ve spent hundreds of billions. Guns are supported by at least 40% of the population. At LEAST. The government can’t stop ‘em and would be wasting money to try.
But if they try, I’ll support it. An assualt weapon ban just might reduce casulities, though not occurrences. We’ve got to try something, this is intolerable. But I don’t fool myself, a gun is only the tool. The violent intent still remains unchanged.
My solution would be much more expensive, take more time, and lack the visceral pleasure that some would get from seeing every weapon melted down. Mental health for all. And for some, regardless of if they want it or not. We used to have a mental health system in this country, we need it back. Everybody would spend a reasonable amount of time each year with a Mental Health professional. If the MHP decides he needs to see somebody more often, he could do it. I don’t know what reasonable would be, for an average person. But somebody does or could figure that out.
We require vaccinations for school admission. We require people with TB or or such diseases to take and complete treatment or we confine them and do it under court order. This would be nothing new.
I don’t think we coud win meaningful restrictions on guns at the national level anyway. We’d be more likely to get a law overriding tougher local regulations with federal regulations that would be MUCH looser.
Before guns can be successfully banned, honest people must trust the government to protect them. And we’re nowhere close to that. Ask any occupy protestor. Or Redneck. Or lots of people in between.
Boxturtle (Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be working for a change in that)
You know I love you man. Here goes -
Tell that to England.
I have about 200 hours of CQB and MOUT training. Very little by real world standards. I’m no expert. I’ve spent maybe 100 hours on the range in my life.
I can still discharge, accurately, about 40 rounds from a single handgun with 10 round magazines, including mag changes, in about 30 seconds.
An assault weapons ban doesn’t go nearly far enough.
This is true, but only to an extent. A gun makes it incredibly easy to do something that is impossible to take back. A hollow point bullet to the torso causes irreparable damage, usually resulting in death. 1 second of bad judgement, 1 instant, and a life is gone. No amount of triage, surgery, or effort from doctors will take that back. A gunshot is not a stab wound or a blunt force trauma injury.
While the tool has to be in the hands of a user to function, it still functions at a level of violence not seen in other handheld weapons.
Sadly, you’re right. I agree that better mental health care is needed.
I also agree with your next point that we would need to trust the government before many would surrender their firearms.
We’re fucked, probably beyond repair, and tragedies like today will continue to happen with increasing frequency as our nation slips deeper into poverty and despair.
Not surprised.
I thought this was great. Posted just now to facebook by our local school district.
Tips for discussing tragedy with children.
Oh cool. I was just chatting with someone and we were wondering what in the world we would say to our kids. I have one in K and on in the 3rd grade.
Easy to get a gun. Next to impossible to get meaningful mental health care.
Here’s another. I sent this to my daughter.
How to Talk to Your Kids About the School Shooting
Tweeted.
Thanks.
Well friends, I like the 220+ comments on today’s Over Easy post, but I have to admit I don’t like the reason for them. Sad day.
In case anyone needs to take the edge of the news today:
DYAC.
I love DYAC!!