
I’ve been thinking about football. Now, you might assume that because I live in the home of the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame, I would be thinking about football because this place went bonkers over the BCS championship. But I feel about the game the way I felt on November 7th: Thank gawd that’s over!
Instead, two football stories that have nothing to do with the action on the field have me thinking about football in a different way. The first is a Notre Dame story that seems to be in the past, done and buried with no resolution, no harm, no foul, although it surfaced again amid the attention to the BCS championship. The other still is unfolding in Steubenville, Ohio, and is getting uglier by the day. In the interest of post length, I’m going to focus on the Notre Dame case. It serves as a starting point for discussion of the topic of glorifying football and football players, reflected not only in assault cover-ups, but in the inordinate amounts of money poured into football programs, often at the expense of other worthwhile programs, at both the high school and college level.
I want to be clear about a couple of things:
1) I have NO concrete information from first-hand sources about the Notre Dame story. Info in this post is from my recollections and from local and national coverage then — and recently.
2) This post is not meant to disparage Notre Dame, which is good to its students and employees, a good citizen of the South Bend area, and strives to be a principled institution within the boundaries of its Catholic roots. I only use Notre Dame as an example of what I think is undue deification of sports in general, and football in particular.
Lizzy Seeberg was a 19-year-old freshman at Saint Mary’s College, ND’s “sister school” across a main road from Notre Dame. She accused a Notre Dame football player of assaulting her on Aug. 31, 2010, and 10 days later committed suicide in her dorm room after receiving threatening text messages from other members of the football team, and their friends and fans. “Don’t mess with Notre Dame football,” read one warning message. Police told the family they weren’t sure when they could follow up. “They said they were pretty busy,” said Lizzy’s mother, “because it’s football season and there’s a lot of underage drinking.”
Sports Illustrated picks up the story…
Notre Dame police didn’t attempt to contact the accused player until nine days after the alleged assault and didn’t reach him until five days after Seeberg’s death. The story of Seeberg’s accusation and death remained largely unreported until the Chicago Tribune broke it in mid-November of that year. On Dec. 16, 2010, the prosecuting attorney for St. Joseph County announced that there would be no charges filed in the case, most pointedly because Seeberg’s written statement would be ruled inadmissible as hearsay, because she is dead.
The school refused to tell Lizzy’s parents if the accused player was punished internally. He was on the field for practices and games, with no interruption. The university’s president, Fr. John Jenkins, refused to meet with Seeburg’s family “on advice of counsel.” He wanted to keep himself detached from the situation, although he was “sure it was handled appropriately.” The civil rights office of the U.S. Department of Education conducted a seven-month investigation of Notre Dame, prompted by the Chicago Tribune coverage, that resulted in a settlement agreement in 2011 requiring the university to improve its handling of reported assault cases. I’m sure that was comforting to Lizzy Seeberg’s family.
The Nation’s article Notre Dame and Penn State: Two Rape Scandals, Only One Cry for Justice summarizes troubling issues that seem to make rape of boys (awful as that is) a huge scandal that brings down several prominent people AND threatens a major university’s reputation, while rape of young women is buried or covered up, even at a prominent Catholic university.
At too many universities, too many football players are schooled to see women as the spoils of being a campus god. But it’s also an issue beyond the commodification of women on a big football campus. It’s the fruit of a culture where politicians can write laws that aim to define the difference between “rape” and “forcible rape” and candidates for the Senate can speak about pregnancy from rape being either a “gift from God” or biologically impossible in the case of “legitimate rape.”
The other story, somewhat related, is much more timely. In Steubenville, Ohio, at least two (likely more) high school football players repeatedly raped a drunken young woman, and law enforcement and other prominent people worked very hard to paper over and bury the story. A cell of Anonymous, the hacker organization, went to work digging out buried videos and photos and other information about the events and their cover-up. This story is still unfolding.
Meanwhile, is there anything to be done to de-escalate the glorification of football, and sports in general, when those in administrative positions seemingly couldn’t care less about the collateral damage? Consider also the more recent (and more highly publicized) death of a Notre Dame student, Declan Sullivan, when a 40-foot-high hydraulic lift he was atop blew over in a 53 mph wind gust while he was filming a University of Notre Dame football practice. An internal investigation found that nobody was specifically at fault (lots of blame to go around). Is the almighty game worth these young lives, or all of the money lavished on football?
I wish I had an answer. or at least some idea how to address the problem. I don’t.
Photo: U.S. Air Force/1st Lt. John Ross, in the public domain



194 Comments

Good Friday morning, firedogs!
Good morning msmolly. Thanks for the post and host.
Rain and fog here.(Al Gore is fat)
It rained here off and on all night, and nearly all of the old dirty snow is gone. Forecast is for mid-50s today and tomorrow. Depending on rain, I might get the bike off the rack and go for a ride. Cold coming again by Monday.
But we’ve had very little snow so far, maybe 4 inches total.
Good morning everyone.
Thank you for the post msmolly.
JC, we are having the same type of day here in NW Illinois. Cannot see half a block right now.
The only solution I can think of is to return Universities to their original goal of education.
If the NFL wants a farm system, they are perfectly welcome to buy a free ride for the prospects and have ‘em practice AFTER school.
How much money is ND spending of football scholarships that it could be spending on education?
Boxturtle (And we need to start selecting police and prosecutors who hate sports)
Its quiet at the Lake today.
Fog, rain temp expected to break 60.
Boxturtle (Al Gore is REALLY fat)
Oh, things will pick up. It’s Friday, people are slower to roll out of bed, I think.
GM, msmolly. I am so exhausted by the violence in our culture. I almost can’t even talk about it. Football, guns, and crazy behavior have just wiped me out.
I never watch football, I never found it interesting. So I don’t “get” any of the hysteria over the game and the players. When I worked as a bartender, I paid the least amount of attention I could to sports and was lucky to know the names of the teams playing or if it was basketball or football, but that’s it.
I hope for justice.
The wind is blowing here, and it got cold again overnight after 2 days of warmish weather compared to the cold we had the last week or so.
I’m with you. And the ridiculously lucrative TV money that Universities get? Needs to go away.
Supposed to be 72 here today. Early January. Awesome.
Thanks, msmolly, glad you said sports in general, this is a problem in many star athlete areas. From being given status they don’t really earn, a lot of ‘stars’ view others as not on their level and treat them accordingly. This can be dangerous, particularly for young girls who see them as somehow great catches, as well. Tragedies occur. The schools need to be aware, and their security forces alert.
And according to what I’ve read about the ND case, we need trustees and legal folks who hate football, too.
I am fairly sure, however, that the enormous sums football brings into Notre Dame’s coffers supports ALL of the sports teams, since most aren’t self supporting. This is different from what I understand is true at most universities, where football revenues support football only.
BTW,
Great job vis a vis the Los Alamos diary.
That was in an early draft of this post, Barb. Football bores me. Always has. My high school and college teams had, when I was in attendance, championship basketball teams, so I like basketball, but I don’t really follow it. My kids were swimmers, so I like watching swimming (in small doses). The rest of sports? Meh.
Good morning firedogs. Thanks for the post and host msmolly.
Imagine if Notre Dame had investigated this rape properly, and if local police had done their jobs. There would have been prosecutions, maybe convictions, and serious damage to the reputation of the program. At least for a little while.
Do they then play in the BCS title game just 2 seasons later? Absolutely not. No way the school can attract top-tier talent with a broken reputation.
Now you see why they cover these things up. The millions and billions of dollars associated with playing in and winning a BCS title are far too lucrative to care about the fate of one little wimman.
Morning msmolly,
The roads have been sanded and salted and don’t get cleaned until well into spring. Very corrosive to bicycle parts, I leave mine in storage until the street sweepers and a couple of good heavy rains get a chance to change the scene. Turning on any corner can be like riding on small ball bearings, bike going out from under you, sideways.
Shhh, you’ll wake up the sleepers.
Yup, Kris. AND I didn’t include it because the post was already too long, but there was another assault/rape case around the time of the Seeberg case, but the young woman didn’t come forward because she saw the reaction to the Seeberg case (hostile).
I’ve also heard (again, not first hand, but from a friend) that the women’s BB coach did nothing when one of her players reported an assault by a football player, saying her job was to field a winning team only (and ND’s women’s basketball is another top sport here).
I notice some of the Catholics on my FB are big fans of ND. The blinders are beyond my comprehension, but that’s a whole ‘nother element to this story that I am also exhausted over. Maybe I should just stay in bed today. lol
It’s cross country skiing weather, isn’t it? I remember months of dirty grey ice on sidewalks, learning to step carefully in boots, when I lived in the NE.
NCAA football programs typically pay for the entire sports department. Unless a particular school has a regularly successful basketball or baseball team, the football foots the bill. Football is the only thing guaranteed to bring additional revenues in the form of TV.
I am having trouble waking up this morning.
msmolly’s topic is a good one and as i read the story about Lizzy Seeberg and what is happening in Steubenville, Ohio about cover-up, the stories are similar and that is terrible. No investigations, protection of the athletes, destroying evidence, attacking the victims and their families. I could go on and on.
The family of Lizzy Seeberg never seeing justice done is criminal in itself.
I have always loved sports but there is a limit.
AC2,
You and I have both been high school coaches. My school here is highly successful in football.
The over emphasis of sports over other activities is atrocious.
Like Kris said yesterday, All sports should be clubs and not a part of the curriculum.
I don’t think anything has been sanded here yet. But I won’t get the bike out unless the streets are pretty dry. I suspect it will be rainy, so no…but I’m hoping. This exercise bike doesn’t cut it.
The TV money is the only thing that worries me. I don’t know how much of that is used for real education, as opposed to the sports teams, and higher education is hurting for funds anyway.
My belief is that if the televised sports just went away, that money wouldn’t be needed. But I have no data to back that up.
Boxturtle (If we properly supported higher education at the state level…)
This is disgusting, and demonstrative of the fact that the University fosters a culture that does not value individual women. Despicable.
Confession always seemed to me altogether too little to justify a lot of sins, but that’s my humble opinion.
Never. Give. Up.
Well, if we got back to a system of playing within your region, i.e. against schools that are a bus ride away vs. flying on charter jets back and forth across the country and staying in hotels, I’m sure we could trim down the expenses to the point where TV money is no longer needed. Oh, and stop paying coaches millions of dollars a year.
Nick Saban, Alabama’s head coach, made over $5.5 million this year including incentive bonuses.
If the TV networks want those big cross-country rivalry games, let them foot the bill.
Tell that to the basketball teams in March.
Boxturtle (I guess Universities are corporations with sports as their product)
Hmmm. Notre Dame played its first football game Sept. 1, in Dublin, Ireland! Wonder what that cost?
Of course they value individual women. They need them as payments for Star sports players.
Boxturtle (Perhaps the solution is to allow the alumni to hire hookers for winning teams)
This is what I’m talking about, though. Every year you see the Cinderella Story schools that barely make it in to the Tournament. Schools that nobody has ever heard of.
The administration is excited to be there because of the TV money! Making it into the Tournament is guaranteed to net you at least a few hundred thousand.
Good idea. It’s a really silly situation, too, to pit teams against each other from vastly different areas – farm teams come to mind.
In Alabama’s defense, if YOU brought in over $100M to the University, they’d pay you $5.5M too.
Boxturtle (Does Ala even have an academic program? If so, I’ve never heard of it)
The traditional January Thaw of my youth had temps climbing to the mid-20′s from 0 or below F. My four legged has insisted on four trips outside this morning, fresh rain water in puddles to drink.
I could not have said it any better than you just did.
They don’t value individual women. That’s like saying that a baker values individual cattle. As long as the cattle as a group produce the butter that he needs to bake with, the baker doesn’t care if one of them gets sick or dies.
All the baker cares about is that his end product is salable.
Pay the players, then. If the revenue is so critical, pay these kids. Treat it like the business it is rather than a collegiate pursuit.
Happy times. My visiting cats are luxuriating in sunbeams they never had before, from large south facing windows.
Giving them an actual education would be nice, too.
I always look at the graduation rates of these schools and cannot help but think that when these athletes expend their eligibility and do not graduate, the coaches could care less about them.
Most of these kids don’t want an education. They want a stepping stone to the NFL.
The kids that actually do want an education, get one. There are a handful of players that actually pursue meaningful degrees and stick with school the entire 4 years to make sure they complete them.
Thanks again to everyone for all your support this week. It was awesome.
You’re right. They don’t care.
If anyone here wants to try and sell me that Nick Saban or Brian Kelley care about any one of their players beyond what that kid can do for them on the football field, I will promptly laugh in their face and suggest the closest mental institution.
These kids are a revenue generator. Capitalism has infected our institutions of higher learning. The only way to cleanse them is to remove the motivation of profit.
The universities probably say they ARE paying the players, with scholarships. But only the top players get scholarships. And Notre Dame isn’t cheap to attend!
BBL, I have to run a “Honey-do” errand.
msmolly, in case I do not get back before the conversation moves on, thank you for this post.
I haven’t taken the time yet to tell you how incredible you are :)
You’re brave. You’re admirable. You’re kind of a hero.
I love you for it. You’ve set an example for all of the budding activists in my generation.
Thank you.
Just an aside, but the same sort of situation where women and some men as well are sexually abused but justice ignores them happens in our military too. It’s a culture of hiding the problem there, too.
But…but…but…if we paid them, there would be all sorts of folks using that to influence games or get a specific prospect to the right school or get the prospect locked up to a team before the draft…
Boxturtle (Oh, wait…)
It is WE who are in awe of you!!
I didn’t go back to look, but I asked on your post how it could possibly be legal to have no record of a trial in which there was a verdict and a sentence handed down. How would anyone prove the sentence even happened?
You’re welcome! Do come back…we’re around all day, usually!
It is the very least we can do, given what YOU are doing. Thank you just doesn’t seem to cover it.
Boxturtle (never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do)
Oh sure. The argument will always be ‘We pay for their education, they render football services in exchange’. But is this really equitable? Of course not. Most of the schools involved in the NCAA are PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Alabama should be affordable for all Alabama residents, whether or not they can play football.
Oregon, USC, UCLA, Oregon State, Cal, Nevada, UT, Texas A&M, Ohio State, Nebraska, OU, Oklahoma State, Kansas…. on and on and on.
Virginia Tech, Penn State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Ole Miss….
All public schools.
Why is the education that they provide priced beyond any of these young people’s reach?
*shhhhh
don’t tell anybody that it already happens at every school in the country.
We wish there were a way to help more, keep us informed please.
You are awesome.
Good morning all and thanks for the postnhost msmolly.
Serving up young men to the greedy rich white guys in the NFL so ignorant assholes like Mike Shanahan can blow them up in 1 year is fucking stupid. Oh, and fuck that other group of greedy rich white guys getting rich off of kids they treat like slaves, the NCAA.
On Wisconsin!
(except FUCK that Russell Wilson guy)
*grumbles*
Don’t see that happening any time soon.
The Sandusky case may have helped, in that it spread the inappropriate glorification of football all over the front pages. I’m sure a few people realized how out of whack a society (and a university) is to have sexual assault of young boys covered up over many years.
But already that’s no longer on the front pages.
Not only is it no longer on the front page, but they’re still playing football for profit on television. The head coach that replaced Paterno turned down two NFL jobs last week to stay with the school.
That school has suffered nothing for its rape of children. They are the Catholic Church of colleges.
It’s another symptom of moneyed interests taking over and turning public institutions into another abuse of the public. High salaries, expensive sports, endowed chairs for the purpose of spreading ideology, all are a spoilation of education that ought to be serving to educate and prepare kids to live productive lives.
I’ve seen similar cases about women in the military, and also at the military schools, being assaulted and their cases ignored or worse.
A commenter on one of the articles I read for this post accused the author of “feminizing” the story. As though she inappropriately highlighted the treatment of the woman in the Seeberg case.
Read that as “accidental,” education, but that just might happen in a few cases. (not enough sleep or not enough coffee?)
Hear, Hear!
Are all your kids as smart as Kris? :)
Good morning. No, Kris is exceptional and extraordinary.
He’ll tell you that they are, but they’re not.
The other ones are pretty, though, so there’s that.
Feminizing something is pretty funny, I guess ‘victimization’ is the next accusation. Playing the gender card also.
Are the others just as modest?
Capitalism and nepotism in our public education system, disguised as endowed chairs, traditions, etc.
Sounds like maybe we need to burn the whole thing down and start over.
Nope. I’m better than all of them at everything, including modesty.
Barbara, any meager support from this end was entirely deserved by you and your LANL companions. I think some of us felt guilty about not being able to be there in person, from the start. Getting the word out to a wider audience is crucial on many intersecting issues. Thank you.
A lot can happen when alumni/ae get involved, and it happened at Penn when the Sandusky scandal embarrassed them.
At least you admit it.
You should’ve heard the brouhaha on campus when a student group wanted to put on Vagina Monologues.
There’s a reason I call It “EVERY child left Behind” and “Race to the BOTTOM”.
33 years an educator and I agree with Kris. Our system sucks.
Should have had it running jointly with Angels in America.
IMO the SCHOOL shouldn’t suffer anything other than extreme civil penalties applied to their their football budget. There are thousands of students, other employees who had nothing to do with that atrocity.
What should happen is that the PEOPLE involved be criminally charged and removed. Which is what happened. Except for Joe Pa, who was fortunate enough to die before this hit.
Boxturtle (Why should education suffer for football?)
I just saw an old July, I think, Sports Illustrated at the dr. office. There was an excellent piece exploring all of this at UVA where there are 3 zillion $$ fields…..contrasting poor salaries for food service workers. A verrry depressing picture that pointed out the talented kids are tracked from at least Jr. Hi…..into the weird world of sports priority/hero and NOT into an education. With the news about head injuries, maybe some folks/parents will catch on. We’ll see. Im very antagonistic….obviously the goals are not character and sportsmanship. Sickening.
Even money says the loudest voices had no clue what that was actually about, just saw the word vagina.
Boxturtle (I suppose I’ve no room to talk, I’ve never seen it)
I’m pretty sure JoePa killed himself. That’s just MHO.
I see your point.
The civil suits against the school will be in the 10s of millions, but they won’t be paid by the football program. I promise you that.
Taxpayer dollars there, for sure.
Good Morning Ms Molly and Firedogs,
got my head in cake mode AGAIN — Mr Venom needs an image transfer doncha know :D
grumbling – I worked in Rape Crisis for several years 35 years ago – jesus, it’s like watching us collectively reinvent the wheel, zero progress.
now what did I do with that silver paint ?
I feel kind of warm and fuzzy.
Good thing I’ve got health insurance.
Very interesting comparison, and I’m sure it exists all across the country in its universities.
I should go look up what happened, because I don’t remember. I think the students produced it off campus, but seems like they finally did it on campus, too.
Remember, until 1972 Notre Dame was all-male, and it’s a Catholic university, so it has struggled with not only women but LGBT issues too.
I dunno, Kris. He had lung cancer. It’s also possible he killed himself rather than continue treatment. I’ve never heard that, though.
I was thinking along the money lines as well. As long as it is as lucrative as it is, there will be problems with cover-up of player misconduct.
That Stubenville case was heartbreaking, but I got some relief from what Anonymous did in that.
Good morning, Ms. CBL. Mr. Venom? Whazzat?
I think JoePa knew that he would be gutted financially through civil suits. His negligence allowed the rapes to continue for years.
I think that to preserve his money for his family he offed himself.
You must remember that he was diagnosed with cancer, but it was deemed treatable and he was responding well to treatment. Then he suddenly died.
Venom, bad guy from Spiderman.
OOOOH. That’s a scary one!
The tape from Steubenville should be used in courses in school on sex ed, if not personal safety. Any society that tolerates such disregard of common humanity needs reeducation at least.
I did think his death was odd, and the timing was startling. But I didn’t know much about him until the Sandusky case hit the headlines.
it’s for a soon to be six year old boy – Venom and Spidey are to square off over a cake Metropolis – woo hoo ! :D
I gather that Steubenville case is far from over. Lots more to come out, I think.
My take on it has always been that the timing was convenient. He had just lost his job, it had become increasingly obvious through emerging evidence that he would be civilly liable, and Sandusky was going down in flames.
I think JoePa took the easy way out. Preserved his estate for his family.
Sounds exciting, and here we have a small model of the city near one of its significant buildings, in Dallas, have seen them other places too. Outstanding.
I hope I didn’t imply it was the only one; just what the story was about. Certainly not isolated; I live in Austin, TX (See UT)
looked to me like yesterday Steubenville law enforcement figured out their shrill defensive PR tact wasn’t working dot dot dot, so they were asking witnesses in the community to come forward – something they could’ve done, you know, weeks ago
Ahhh, Dallas. To remind us of the Cowboys empire, the slob Jerry Jones and his palace, and all those guys out there scrambling their brains.
We shall drag ND, kicking and screaming, into the 19th century!
Boxturtle (I’d better have another donut. Those priests are sure to put up a heck of a fight)
Reading about the incident made me physically ill.
I want it ALL to come out and for some justice to be done.(A rare occurrence in our two tiered legal system)
Thanks for bringing that up RevBev. It’s a learning curve we need to push, things won’t change on their own. Your other push for some civility, a simple thank you, if that is OK.
On the other hand, look how quickly our Richard went, following his metastatic lung cancer diagnosis. It’s difficult to say, in the case of Stage IV cancer, what will happen when.
It’s not over. Someone needs to drag little Tommy Corbett alot closer to the fire.
Nice post msmolly. As we all can see, Lizzy just isn’t as important as someone like Ben Roethlisberger. He won 2 super bowls after all. Just fuck me to tears.
Sex ed? If there was EVER course material for a study of Ethics…
We COULD teach ethics without violating church/state, if the churchies weren’t so worried they’d be found unethical.
Boxturtle (Heck, most of the 10 commandments are ethics regardless of religion)
You were awesome, Barbara.
Here’s one for you to try!
a stronger stomach than mine – I haven’t read much – mind numbing how it occurs again and again (see my grumble above – what year is it again ?!?)
Good morning FDLakers,
Interesting day for us today. We’ve been photographing and interviewing several police officers for an upcoming article for the University of Portland magazine, and today we go out with two officers, one human, one bomb sniffing dog. (No the dog didn’t graduate from UofP!)
It’s been an interesting assignment, especially the interviews. The photos are almost a side note, sort of obbligato in nature. This time the dog will steal the show.
I need to go read about Steubenville. I haven’t seen anything for the past several days, and when I decided this post would be a book if I tried to include Steubenville, I quit paying attention to it.
I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around the platinum coin stuff, reading several long posts by letsgetitdone (Joe Firestone) and others. Only room in my aging brain for one puzzle at a time, I guess.
that’s what I had planned to do for Aimee’s babies :D
Unfortunately, having known a member of Jones’ public relations staff, I am well aware he’s a horrible example of the worst that can get hands onto a big sports franchise and should be banned.
Endow a chair in that field and you’d discover that despoiling the environment is required of us by religious tenets.
Time for me to get a bit done now, thanks for good company.
Those are adorable. Is there a recipe/instructions page?
;) Thanks…..Guess I had stepped in it….
Science Daily says we don’t eliminate enough of the old stuff to make room for new – just yesterday on twitter :D
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130109124227.htm
You should write an article….I was living in Dallas when his crowd came in late to get to the front for their symphony seats….There must be lots of stories.
any ol box mix, Plus
1 cup flour
1 cup sugar
1 Tbs oil
1 Tbs vanilla
4 (yes 4 !) egg whites
1 pkg pudding to match cake flavor
1/2 cup sour cream
1 tsp salt
1 Tbs almond extract
makes world’s most moist, flavorful cake
Which is why I’d keep it secular. Shalt not kill, not bear false witness, not steal seem to me to be ethics as opposed to religion.
Boxturtle (But it’s safer to ignore ethics and avoid the inevitable lawsuit)
Gotta fly myself to see my small hometown banker.(A real banker who actually gives a shit rather than a TBTF Bank)
Thanks for the wonderful conversation.Will check back later.
(This a great way to start a day. I find that the conversations I have in my small county seat town of 2500 with the locals is so much better informed by the University of Over Easy). :)
crikey – TWO Tbs oil, not one
Considering we don’t make anywhere near full use of the brain’s capacity, that is surprising.
OOPS.
I forgot to say Never. Give. Up.
on my muted tv
“WH considering funding police in schools”
ayfkm !?!?!?
I was thinking of doing the same thing, you beat me to it (talking about yesterday) things were beyond me needing to pour on gasoline, but I watched in real time. Stepping in it, I disagree with that definition.
My daughter likes to bake, and I think she’s made cakes that use pudding. The trick would probably be finding the pans to bake that tiered cupcake.
Crazy Wayne suggested it, has to be a considered a good idea for the WH. Not atypical thinking. WH would be keeping their promise to “do,” something.
Have a nice day, folks.
Apparently I missed something. (Sounds like it’s just as well.) I truly value all of my firepup friends and their different voices, and don’t want to see any animosity among us.
And I agree with JClausen about the University of Over Easy! LOL. Boy do I learn a lot here. And when I have a question about something, my first thought is to ask someone here for an answer!
It would sure be nice if the Government would fund education in schools, rather than a highly questionable view of “security”.
But the war on drugs is winding down, despite the best efforts of congress. I suppose we’ll need someplace to place all the excess cops who are no longer busting stoners.
Boxturtle (Perhaps they can help with rape investigations in football towns)
Ain’t that the truth! And when I do remember something I’ve read, I nearly always forget WHERE I read it, so can’t quote a source, which I am pretty strict with myself about (having really learned THAT at FDL too).
Isn’t that wonderful! Teach every kid in America you need a gun to be truly safe.
;) Thanks again….
I never saw the tape. Thing is, aren’t there efforts afoot to abolish sex ed? Don’t know for sure. I have always been in favor of as much education and information on any given subject is best.
Don’t cake mixes already have a lot of those ingredients? (Just asking…I rarely bake, except that I bake all of my own bread).
Thanks for the diary msmolly, different topic, you didn’t miss anything. All the best today, pups.
With no more horses to flog in my immediate vicinity, I shall take leave for some more local reading and some very local chores (in the house) until the rain hopefully lets up as forecast for this afternoon. Peace and resolve.
I am going to adopt “peace and resolve” — expresses how I usually feel. Thanks!
I’m out too, for a bit, but I will be around much of the day. Carry on!
Speaking of sex ed, my five year old asked how babies get out of their mommies tummies last night. Still waiting for the big question, how do they get in there? Heheh.
“We spend the first 9 months of our life trying to get out and the rest of our lives trying to get back in” – George Carlin.
Boxturtle (By the time I wondered where babies came from, I already knew)
Yeah, I get the idea my boys don’t care much about the mysteries of life. I’m sure that’ll change by puberty and by then they’ll have heard the street version.
Oh, all the fun is still ahead of you!! LOL!
Mothering boys is a tough job, I’m telling’ ya. Right now, girls have cooties but it won’t be long before the hormone games begin.
I had one of each, and my 8 grandkids are evenly divided, gender wise. Hilarity abounds!
all those in-box ingredients were my concern as well, but you can NOT go wrong using that recipe – I have baked on a thursday and the damn thing is still moist the following thursday
you could always bake two cupcakes – and simply carve round one of them, making it small enough to be top tier – put the one you’re gonna trim in the fridge for 30-45 mins before carving — it will behave better when you trim it.
Add bracketing. This was Alabama they were playing, for God’s sake.
Bless a heart. Cute, and very smart question, for that age. Most that young wouldn’t wonder that.
What, crickets? Kris, you there this morning?
You ready to watch Atlanta get panhandled by the Hawks this weekend?
Morning folks!Geez, it is still morning,even, but 150 posts already, and I’m just arriving.
msmolly, great roundup of the Notre Dame rape story, and good start on Steubenville (which, of course, is ongoing).
I’m with cbl – reinventing the wheel, yet again. Some of us thought, back in the ’70′s and ’80′s, that progress had been made in raising consciousness. I look around, and sometimes I think it’s worse.
In fact, I really wonder about the college football/attitude to women thing. My freshman year I actually lived in the dorm where the freshman football players were required to live (in those distant days, frosh weren’t allowed to play in varsity games). It was a Big Ten school, so major football and basketball programs (no, Bobby Knight had not yet arrived).
I got to know several of those players, and some friends dated some of them.
Everyone I knew was respectful, friendly, not conceited, anxious about making the varsity team, and generally treated women respectfully. As far as I ever saw, of course.
It was clear during recruiting season that girls were provided as dates to the visiting high school players, and the young women I knew were thrilled to be chosen to escort a player around campus. So, yeah, they were sort of”spoils”, but I never heard of any assaults. Not that I would have, but I did know people in a position to know.
That says to me that things have got much, much worse.
I”m checking back in to “The University of Overeasy”
I keep the thread open all day so can check back in to here the left coasters wisdom(or people with real jobs)
Thanks for your insightful comment. :)
Hiya, JClausen. The difference between now and then is kinda depressing, though.
(and I wouldn’t be surprised if bad things happened, but my sense is that it was more the exception, not all pervasive.)
The Hawks are field goal dogs in that game. The odds-makers say no go, your Hawks are done.
Any given Sunday, though, right?
LOL, haHA! There you are. That mean I’m invited? I can smell the coffee brewing from here…
Oh, I’m saving *that* recipe.
I rarely bake cake from scratch any more for lack of time, but at the same time I want to bake something special for school functions from time to time and I don’t want the cupcakes to taste like the box mix. Of course, for school functions it’s all about the decorating not the actual taste of the cakes.
Thanks, cbl. I have passed along the recipe to my baking daughter! I don’t think she’s “into” cake decorating, but loves to bake, so I am sure she’ll like the recipe.
Her hubby got her a good KitchenAid stand mixer a year or so ago (found a real DEAL, apparently). She swears everything she mixes in it tastes better than things she made with her old hand mixer.
EPU land so I will venture a thought:
I want to make sure these Over Easy threads are as welcoming as Southern Dragon’s were.(Bad Grammar)
I hope our shorthand exchanges(we know each other well) do not inhibit others from taking a wholehearted leap into the Lake.
(I lurked for several years before becoming comfortable with letting people know my offline persona).
demi, You inspired me to write this comment
I do that also! I think a lot of us stop by during the day to see who’s here. Probably even more than the Diner, since it’s on MyFDL and can stay visible all day, while the front page posts (like Lakeside Diner was) scroll off after awhile and you had to hunt for them.
I’m not sure anything at Over Easy is in EPU land until perhaps the next morning when that day’s edition is posted. People are sometimes commenting into the evening.
I think SD would be really proud of how everyone stepped up to honor his zen-like abilities and I feel his presence here at Over Easy.
EPU land is where I really express my thoughts. :)
Ditto, great comment. Back when I was lurking, one of the things I did not realize, was how easy it is to sign in and join the discussion, and my hope is that all feel welcome!
Lurk before you leap is time honored Internet advice.
I remember posting “Where does a stranger go to get FAQ’d around here?” in more than one newsgroup.
Not sure what I could do to make a thread more welcoming. Suggestions?
Boxturtle (Soft pr0n header photo? Coupon good for a discount at DQ?)
I remember when I first came to FDL, having read elsewhere a bit but not commented, it took me awhile to realize that not every comment of mine would be responded to, sometimes maybe none would be.
Other blogs I read regularly, I rarely comment at (*wince* my internal editor must be dozing), and other commenters don’t seem to converse with each other much, if at all. I don’t wade deep into the comments at some of the blogs (Krugman and Greenwald come to mind) because there are way too many to read.
But the camaraderie here is unusual, I think. It’s mainly why I’m here!
Imitation is the greatest form of praise.
My parenthetic style lately is because of your training.(although I am not half as funny as you)
I think you are right about SD and I am so glad we keep his memory and spirit alive. As said, he walked me through the illness and loss of my cat, almost exactly a year ago. He knew from the beginning to be very concerned then confirmed that we will all meet at The Bridge…..Sounds good to me. Thanks for the reminders.
I’m singing a gospel version of “Amazing Grace” for local friend who reminded me of SD tomorrow at the local Lutheran Church.
IT ROCKS. (and I try to do it justice for a WASP)
I should clarify. (I am the WASP) :)
You are singing because of this friend, or at the friend’s request? For a wedding or some other celebration? Sounds wonderful!
Beautiful! I often listen to African gospel choirs. Love it. Haunting beauty, that song, no matter the version.
Perhaps a once in a while invitation in the post to delurk. I enjoy reading delurk threads and finding out about all those folks who know us well but remain unknown to us.
Last night I was thinking about Richard and Nagi and thinking that I would see Richard for the first time ever at the Bridge because Nagi and I will meet me there someday. Of course there can be no Nagi at the bridge without Richard. It’s a comfort.
I for one hope all those lurking weirdos stay away.
I’m not comfortable with change. I don’t need new friends.
/humbug
You crack me up, Kris.
Thanks for your contributions to the FDL community.
:)
Glad that got a laugh from somebody.
Oh, those lurkers are nowhere near as weird are the regulars ’round this place. Jeeze, I just admitted recently that I’m a drag queen trapped in a middle aged female body.
There, that’s a challenge to the lurkers. Prove yer weird enough to join the lunatics at Over Easy!
In high school I had a wonderful friend, who is still a friend, and she used to say, “Of all my little friends, you are the strangest.” I guess she’s OK with that….
Enjoy….folks just love that song….and even better when you know its history. Bill Moyers did a whole video. Hope it all goes well.
I remember something on PBS about that song. It really is an extraordinary piece.
HA. Have you told your kids?
I’m totally in the closet. But considering every keystroke of digital information from the internet is sure to be archived for posterity, I’m sure my children and my children’s children will read my shame.
Sorry. It is for his memorial service and he was a dear friend.
Good Luck at the service….should be lovely. Thanks.
Has anybody seen my pants?
Thanks,
You are so kind.
Jim Clausen
And, thanks to you….such a wonderful word. BL
Ha! EPU Land,indeed.I’m just popping back in, too,to see what I might have missed.
Have tried to get some work done this afternoon. Signed up for a free webinar Mon on cloud computer and legal practice. (free to members; I’m a member!)
Landlord had roofers working on roof since about 9 am. Guess I should be grateful they didn’t start earlier. Mainly on a section over my neighbor’s apartment, which also seemed to be over my bedroom. Kitties were not pleased with all the pounding.
Big Boy insisted on leaving after breakfast…slunk across patio, took off for fence. Haven’t seen him since.
Smokey went under the sofa for a chunk of the day. I needed a short nap in early afternoon; Pushy curled up next to me, got up once and half-hung over the side of the bed, like he was heading underneath. But he let me reassure him with head pets and stayed topside. I actually slept a little while.
(still coughing some, especially in the morning before meds kick in)
JClausen, sorry you’ve lost your friend; I’m sure you’ll do a great job on Amazing Grace.
Just so you know, I went to ASU law school with bmaz from emptywheel and I dropped out to get a secure sales job with GM,(DUMB)
Hang in there and thanks for your comments. They are Valued.
Hey, I think I recall your mentioning having gone to law school with bmaz. Secure sales job? Um, should I ask what you’re doing these days? Well, at least you didn’t get stuck with the burden of tuition loans, right?
I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. You will do him a great honor with your music.
You, too, are so kind.
Thank you.
I took the job when I ran out of money. :)
Over Easy: Pants optional.
Now where are those lurkers, I wonder…
OMG Kris is streaking again. Where’s his wife? Yoo hoo, he’s out of control, we neeeeeed you!!
LOL!!!
I want a post like that sometime. I wonder if Jane would put us on the front page??
Nah, probably not…