28 Responses to Party Machine Loyalists/Apologists/Propagandists Attack Progressives/FDL/NPA/Me with Climate Denial & Racist Allegations

1. normanb September 6th, 2011 at 7:23 pm 1

   http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/harveywasserman.com/bcnews.go.com/en.wikipedia.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273×165405

   (complaining about my column from May 14, 2010):

   http://my.firedoglake.com/normanb/2010/05/14/massachusetts-is-embarrassed-humiliated-by-senator-kerrys-disgraceful-climate-fraud-bill/

   http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/08/16/new-progressive-alliance-more-racist-than-progressive/

   http://my.firedoglake.com/members/newprogressivealliance/

   I sent this rebuttal: http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/08/28/hurricane-obamaganda-and-open-thread/

   Reply
2. ThingsComeUndone September 6th, 2011 at 7:34 pm 2

   For standard identity maintenance, and because I know of mix-ups, I checked to see what if anything people were saying about me online. I found two sites with virulent animosity toward progressives, especially Firedoglake.

   How do you check to see what people are saying about you online I google ThingsComeUndone and all I see are my own diaries and comments.

   Reply
3. ThingsComeUndone September 6th, 2011 at 7:38 pm 3

   but actually support President Obama’s ultra-Right-wing war machine; at the same time, they smear progressives in an attempt to divide and conquer Left-leaning voters.

   I don’t think it working even at Kos things care a changin but yes there are Obamabots and die hard Obama supporters out there “Stand by your Man ” seems to be their theme song

   Reply
4. Michael Cavlan RN September 6th, 2011 at 7:46 pm 4

   If you are not pissing off the elites and their apologists, then you are not doing your job. You are doing your job. Good Job.

   Comfort the afflicted
   Afflict the comfortable

   Reply
5. normanb September 6th, 2011 at 7:49 pm 5

   In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 2

   I just googled my name, in different configurations, then, after Irregular Times established a page on me, saying that it would investigate all NPA Steering Committee members, I kept a closer look.

   http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/tag/norman-bie/

   Reply
6. ThingsComeUndone September 6th, 2011 at 8:26 pm 6

   “The Union of Concerned Scientists,” and I’m on their e-mailing list. I had to ask if there are actually any real Scientists there. They claim that there are. I don’t know why they’re so Unconcerned: The UCS consistently recommends switching from fossil fuels that emit the weakest Greenhouse Gas (CO2) to wind farms that emit the strongest one (SF6), and to solar panels that emit NF3, the second-strongest Greenhouse Gas (GHG). Nitrogen Trifluoride is the GHG that’s increasing fastest in our atmosphere.
   Nitrogen Trifluoride (or “Solar Freon,” NF3) is 17,900 times as strong as Carbon Dioxide (CO2). It stays in the atmosphere more than 700 years. Sulfur Hexafluoride (or “Air Jordan,” SF6) stays in our air more than 3,000 years and is 34,500 times as strong as CO2. If the so-called “Smart Grid” proceeds as planned, SF6 production will double immediately, then quickly double again, then again. And one-quarter to one-half of the SF6 produced leaks directly into the air. The “Smart Grid” is Stupid!
   http://my.firedoglake.com/normanb/2010/05/14/massachusetts-is-embarrassed-humiliated-by-senator-kerrys-disgraceful-climate-fraud-bill/

   Norm you need links if you make a claim like this next you need numbers to show that if we went 20%, 50% 100% wind and solar that these green house gasses would in fact be worse than the tons of CO2 America puts out every year with coal, gas oil burning powerplants.
   Without links and numbers anyone can attack you. SF6 what is that I need a whole chemical name to google.

   “He said global NF3 production is actually 7,300 tons annually. ”

   ” Co-authors Michael J. Prather and Juno Hsu of the University of California at Irvine noted that NF3 is one of the most potent greenhouse gases known and persists in the atmosphere for 550 years.”

   “How do you respond to news that it was manufactured with a chemical that is 17,000 times stronger than carbon dioxide as a cause of global warming?”

   http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2085

   17,000 multiply by 7,300 tons gets you what NormB?

   Then find out how long CO2 lasts in the air and compare that number to 550 years.
   Extra bonus points if you find a chemical to replace nitrogen trifluoride (NF3)

   Like for example

   “On the bright side, there already is a replacement for this gas, a substance called fluorine, which yields the same effects and can be used in most processes nitrogen trifluoride is currently involved in. However, the costs of this substance place it out of reach for small enterprises, which already have a hard time staying in business.”

   http://news.softpedia.com/news/Solar-Panel-Production-Releases-Dangerous-Chemical-97366.shtml

   On-site Fluorine generation
   The Semiconductor, TFT-LCD, and Photovoltaic industries have been rapidly increasing their global consumption of PFC (perfluorocarbon) gases as a source of Fluorine radicals for process chamber cleaning. Unlike PFC’s, elemental Fluorine (F2) has no global warming potential and is fundamentally lower cost to manufacture than gases derived from Fluorine. In addition, handling and safety concerns make F2 supply via high-pressure cylinders unattractive.

   Low-pressure on-site fluorine generation and delivery provide an environmentally friendly and cost effective alternative for the safe and reliable supply of F2 to both thermally activated and plasma-enhanced CVD process chamber cleaning.

   Linde Group has developed the Generation-F® range of integrated fluorine chamber cleaning solutions that incorporate gas generation, storage, delivery, abatement and complementary maintenance and service solutions.

   The Generation-F®80 is our Semiconductor market on-site fluorine generator for Thermal / LPCVD chamber cleaning.
   The Generation-F® 400 supports the demands of lower generation Flat Panel Display (FPD) and Photo-Voltaic (PV) process tools
   The Generation-F® 1600 is our largest on-site fluorine generator, meeting the needs of larger demands from the FPD and PV/Solar industries, for Generation 5 and above.
   Leading Performance
   ZERO Global Warming Potential: GWP (CO2 equivalent) F2 = 0 ; NF3 = 17,200
   High Purity: Higher specification than cylinder gas; qualified on 300mm, TFT-LCD & PV processes
   High Performance: F2 can cut cleaning time by >50%, reducing tool downtime
   High Efficiency: F2 reduces gas and power consumption for a more sustainable process
   High Reliability: >99% supply uptime
   High Integrity: Low pressure and inventory assures personnel safety. CE marked, SEMI S2 certified
   If you have any queries please email us at electronicsinfo@linde.com .

   http://linde-electronics.com/articles/products/On-site_fluorine_generation/index.asp

   This is how you do a science diary at the Lake you have to have links facts numbers and if you can offer hope! You know FDL has critics you had the facts on your side but you did not demonstrate them.
   Your still new this is FDL science diaries can scare off readers with to much tech and numbers but we also write for science geeks who know this stuff Box Turtle, Scarecrow, Southern Dragon come to mind. SD corrected my numbers once on a hybrid car post even though I had links but it was my math that was off.
   Your critics are lazy and probably don’t have my public school/ community college science background so they could not attack your science. They instead dismissed it Me… uh if your science was wrong I would have nailed you.
   Do your homework with the other gasses like I showed then email those jerks and show them FDL knows its science!
   Then write a diary after giving them a few days to respond an honest man when confronted by the facts will admit they were wrong. I’ve had to do that a few times here ask Perris about the time he caught me being wrong on the facts when we first met it happens to the best of us and I’m not the best we have here.
   The thing is if your critics blow you off after a few days of your waiting for them to prove themselves honest…you NAIL the bastards!

   Reply
7. ThingsComeUndone September 6th, 2011 at 8:33 pm 7

   In response to normanb @ 5

   http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/tag/norman-bie/

   I an hurt HURT I say and insulted that they don’t have a file on me! I’ll match or beat any Lefty on the Lake for saying stuff to piss off Obama!

   Reply
8. shekissesfrogs September 6th, 2011 at 9:15 pm 8

   lol..
   Why do you even write their names? ‘Bamas narcissists love the attention, they live for it. It’s a disease.

   It wont be long now, and sadly you will be proven right, and so will FDL and the mea culpas will come pouring in.
   That will be nothing to brag about.

   Reply
9. Frank33 September 7th, 2011 at 4:03 am 9

   Recommended of course. Someone should catalogue the liberal poser websites, and the topics they censor. Of course Total Information Awareness has been a big business. Now it is Full Spectrum Dominance of information by the corporatocracy. The corporations also catapult the War against science, to attack scientists and their evidence, as the planet heats up due to CO2 and methane.

   Daily Kos has opened up little, as the poser liberal policies of the President are obviously not liberal.

   I was banned from The FOK Society. Then Liz Tyler, the Adminstrator, (“Former” R) hijacked my Post and is holding it hostage (day 7). I was analyzing the Obama speech about 9-11, that was mainly misinformation. No facts were cited to justify the censorship so my Post must have been somewhat persuasive.

   http://my.firedoglake.com/frank33/2011/08/31/banned-again-this-time-banned-from-the-fok-society/

   Liz removed my name from the Post. The implicit copyright or copyleft assumes author attribution is an absolute requirement. Plus my Post is cited as an example of a Troll Post. Also Liz slandered me by calling me a troll. I do not mind the name calling as I have a few names reserved for Liz.

   People such as Liz Tyler and ABL are not doing the President any favors. They might be considered trivial but I think they need to “taken out” metaphorically. These Posers are an unofficial or official part of OFA. That makes them part of the corporatocracy.

   Reply
10. New Progressive Alliance September 7th, 2011 at 5:06 am 10

    People, this will only get worse the closer we get to the election. Remember that – like it or not – we are fighting a huge number of people (Obamabots, Clintonites, corporatists who donate to both parties). We are fighting a Party Machine that will raise $1 billion – JUST for the presidential race. And we are fighting people who think nothing of accusing us of whatever they feel will most quickly take us out of the equation, including the charges Norman enumerates above.

    I’m with Michael Cavlan: If you’re getting this kind of response from your enemies, it means just one thing: They’re worried.

    As well they should be.

    Anthony Noel
    NPA Facilitator

    Reply
11. New Progressive Alliance September 7th, 2011 at 5:18 am 11

    In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 7

    Guys, Irregular Times was and remains an advocate for the NPA. Please check the date of the above-linked post (just days after the NPA website went up), and then click through and read the whole thing. It’s very positive, and they are encouraging people to check us out and support us.

    - Anthony Noel
    NPA Facilitator

    Reply
12. whattheincorporated September 7th, 2011 at 5:44 am 12

    Obama could eat a baby on national television and the bots would praise his bold leadership and twenty dimensional chess mastery.

    Reply
13. whattheincorporated September 7th, 2011 at 5:54 am 13

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433×763037#763043

    The next article should be

    Obamas choice to eat a baby live on national television showed the world he has the bold leadership skills necessary to take america forward not backwards.

    Reply
14. normanb September 7th, 2011 at 6:05 am 14

    In response to New Progressive Alliance @ 10

    You’re right Tony, it is about to get a lot more intense, because we’re gonna shift it into high gear, kick it up a notch. As the Election hurtles toward us like a pair of jetliners out of Logan International, they’ll be doing more everyday, and we shall have to do more every day.

    If anybody’s keeping score, the two fake Left sites cited here are: (1) Democratic Underground; (2) Angry Black Lady.

    Irregular Times is who’s investigating us in the NPA, and compiling what’s probably not the Enemy’s List: Still, I am proud to have made the first draft!
    Alan Maki
    Anthony Noel
    Cindy Sheehan
    Cornel West
    David Swanson
    Jane Hamsher
    Jill Stein
    New Progressive Alliance
    Norman Bie
    Paul Barrow
    Richard Winger

    Reply
15. New Progressive Alliance September 7th, 2011 at 6:51 am 15

    In response to normanb @ 14

    Again Norman, as I state above, you’ve got it wrong on Irregular Times. Please read their entire post and note the date, just after the NPA website went live. The writer is encouraging others to “investigate” us, but in the “check this out, it looks like what we need” sense.

    But ABL and DU? Ab. So. Lutely.

    “Angry Black Lady” called me a racist for the “crime” of suggesting she stop being angry, get over being black, and begin debating like a human. This was characterized (by her Obot followers) as suggesting African Americans are subhuman! Had I instead suggested she “start debating like a lady” – my first instinct of course, since I was having some verbal fun with her handle – I’m certain I’d have been similarly dimissed, but as sexist!

    And DU is just a shell (a thin one at that) for the Democratic Party. Someone posted here yesterday the story of their banning from that site, with the subtitle, “Big Surprise.” Exactly. They are interested EXCLUSIVELY in preaching to their neolib choir.

    Would that this willful blindness – and malevolence – on the part of Obots, Clintonites, neolibs, and other ersatz progressives were born of color blindness. I fear, however, it is the opposite: Defense of this president’s indefensible acts specifically because he is our first black president, and the conviction that anything less than a second term will make him a failure.

    But – flash! – HE IS A FAILURE, and his color has nothing to do with it. It was unimportant to me when I worked (county data coordinator) to help him win North Carolina. It’s just as meaningless now, when I ask, “What hell is he thinking?”

    But try to make that case in the belly of the corporate-captive beast that now is the Democratic Party, and it will get you just one thing: Character assassination.

    Reply
16. Frank33 September 7th, 2011 at 6:54 am 16

    In response to normanb @ 14

    And the McClatchy newspapers are also Firebaggers.

    http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/09/04/using-smoke-and-mirrors-on-president-obamas-environmental-record/#more-52930

    I believe Paul Krugman is a “political rookie” according to the President’s people.

    Reply
17. Michael Cavlan RN September 7th, 2011 at 6:57 am 17

    In response to New Progressive Alliance @ 15

    Tony

    Check out the ABL site where ABL called you racist.

    You might just get a chuckle.

    Reply
18. Michael Cavlan RN September 7th, 2011 at 6:58 am 18

    In response to normanb @ 14

    Hey what the hell?

    I am offended. I want on the list too.

    Grin

    Reply
19. New Progressive Alliance September 7th, 2011 at 7:40 am 19

    In response to Michael Cavlan RN @ 17

    Been there, done that. It’s sad, really.

    I work locally with a prominent leader of the African-American community who has withdrawn his support for a longtime A-A councilwoman in favor of her (white) challenger this fall. His quote: “I don’t care. We’ve suffered with her for 12 years and gotten nothing. Nothing. She doesn’t get it.”

    This in a southern town, where A-A representation SHOULD be winning victories for the very oppressed black community. Instead, she consistently votes with the good ol’ boys.

    Colorblindness means ignoring ethnicity and basing support of our electeds purely on the issues. Any objective assessment of Obama’s performance on the issues he claimed to espouse as a candidate shows he is unwilling to fight for them.

    Period.

    Exclamation point.

    Reply
20. miserychick September 7th, 2011 at 8:03 am 20

    In response to New Progressive Alliance @ 15

    There are countless ways to highlight the failure of Obama’s presidency without making personal, racist attacks to your detractors.

    Why would you suggest that she “get over” being black and begin debating like a human? Do you have any clue as to how that sounds? At best it implies that we live in a post-racial society – even though income disparity between blacks and whites is at a 25 year high (another example of the glaring failure of Obama’s economic policies); at worst it suggests that blacks need to achieve some kind of mental state that transcends race in order to be related to as human beings worthy of respect.

    This hands her a huge club to bash the NPA with and cedes her the high ground. It also reinforces the myth that progressives who oppose Obama are elitist and out of touch.

    Of course your opponents will attack you with schoolyard taunts, that doesn’t mean you need to sink to the same level and degrade the mission of the NPA in the process.

    Reply
21. Michael Cavlan RN September 7th, 2011 at 8:17 am 21

    In response to miserychick @ 20

    miserygirl

    In a way I agree. However, I also responded in a way that will counter all that.

    Here was my response to Angry Black Lady

    Michael Cavlan RN says:
    September 7, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Well kiddies
    If you hate Anthony Noel than you are going to just LOVE me. You bunch of sold out, corporate hacks. Tony is a nice guy but like many white progressives, slightly clueless about issues like white privilege. He also does not know how to street fight.

    I worked on the Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clamente campaign. Cynthia, she is the modern day Shirley Chisolm. Standing up for the rights of Blacks and women. Abandoned by the Black misogynist leaders of their times. As a further aside, the McKinney campaign made history. The first time that two women of color were on the prez/Vp ticket in more than 20 states. But what the hell would you corporate Dem apologist hacks know about that?

    But hell, lets have some real fun. I was an election observer in Ohio 2004.
    You know, Ohio were the Republican Party deliberately targeted mainly Blacks and poor folks in voter disenfranchisment? In what can only be called a direct violation of the 1965 Voter Rights Act.

    What did your man John Kerry and John (working man) Edwards do? NOTHING. They sat there with their $57 MiILLION that had ben set aside to fight voter fraud and did nothing. It was the DEMOCRATS who did nothing about the deliberate disenfrnachisment of black people and their right to vote and have those votes counted. Try watching Cynthia McKinney’s spectacular movie American Blackout. Or indeed read John Conyers book What Went Wrong In Ohio.

    Then get back to me. I will not come back here. You come over to firedoglake

    If you got the ovaries ABL and all your other corporate apologist hacks.

    See you at the Lake. It is beautiful there.

    Reply
22. New Progressive Alliance September 7th, 2011 at 9:37 am 22

    In response to miserychick @ 20

    Point taken, miserychick, and believe me, I’ve learned my lessons: (1) rational debate is impossible on Twitter and (2) rational debate is impossible in any venue with Obamabots.

    In my defense, when someone calling herself “Angry Black Lady” shows up on a Twitter feed accusing your org of racism – which ABL was doing literally for months BEFORE I’d even engaged her – one has every right to ask “Who is the racist here: The org that says right in its platform that it stands unapologetically for equal rights, empowerment, and representation for all, or the lone Twit who is introducing herself, by her very handle, as a racial antagonist?”

    I asked that, and the answer was – and remains – perfectly obvious to me.

    As for “handing her a huge club,” she (and her kowtowing ilk) were already bashing the NPA anyway. That is fine, and their right. Just as it is our to obey the first rule of combat: Knowing who your enemies are.

    And this election cycle, they’re the Obots.

    Reply
23. kgb999 September 7th, 2011 at 9:46 am 23

    LoL. Trashing FDL and it’s participants has turned into a bit of a cottage industry in many Democratic circles these days.

    Notorious!

    (The funny part is that the vast majority of Democratic detractors have obviously never bothered to actually read FDL content, it’s all superficial message points with a healthy sprinkle of “conventional point of view” that’s been handed down from somewhere.)

    Reply
24. kgb999 September 7th, 2011 at 9:50 am 24

    In response to shekissesfrogs @ 8

    Awwww, come on. When I got to DU and ABL … it evoked a really awesome guffaw. Totally made the post IMO.

    Makes me wonder how the folks over at Open Left are doing (not enough to actually go there or anything … but I wonder).

    Reply
25. ThingsComeUndone September 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am 25

    In response to miserychick @ 20

    Seconded if ABL was really angry she would grill Obama about African American unemployment and Prison numbers. If ABL were a real blogger she would investigate NormB’s facts before attacking him.
    ABL is is just an Obamabot propaganda machine. Attacking her for being Angry or Black well I think she has a lot to be Angry about our First African American President is doing nothing to help African Americans heck he is doing nothing to help anybody but rich people.
    Attack her for her fake concern for African Americans as Obama does nothing for African Americans or ANYBODY thats legit.
    Attack her for attacking Normb without investigating his facts.
    Thats legit criticism.
    Put Pressure on NormB to put links in his diary and show his math more when he makes claims so ABL etc don’t have a leg to stand on.

    Reply
26. ThingsComeUndone September 7th, 2011 at 12:16 pm 26

    However, SF
    6 is a highly potent greenhouse
    gas. It has a global warming potential 23,900
    times greater than that of CO
    2 and an atmo-
    spheric life of 3,200 years. As recently as 2002,
    the industry released 600 metric tons of SF
    6 into
    the atmosphere—the equivalent of 3,103,896
    passenger cars driven for a year or the burning of
    72,866 railcars of coal.ing operations.

    http://www.airgas.com/documents/pdf/50170-120.pdf

    Reply
27. ThingsComeUndone September 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm 27

    To this end, Eaton—a global power distribution company—has committed to providing the most compact medium voltage electrical products in the market without the use of any materials that could have potentially harmful side effects to the environment. Eaton has a full range of medium voltage electrical distribution products that provide ideal space-saving solutions for wind farm applications without the use of SF6 gas as an insulator.

    Insulation systems that utilize a combination of solid insulators, normal air, and engineered current-carrying components can provide a homogenous barrier between the environment and the critical current-carrying components, in addition to adequate air clearances to prevent any dielectric breakdown. A variety of electrical systems with fixed-mounted components—such as Eaton’s MSB, Innovac MMS, and Xiria—are available to provide the reliability of bolted-in components for those that shy away from withdrawable circuit protection. There are also a variety of electrical systems that combine solid insulation, air clearance, and withdrawable elements, such as Eaton’s MEF, Innovac SVS, AMPGARD® and medium voltage variable frequency drive. These systems provide very high reliability in addition to reduced installation, maintenance time, and costs. By having the ability to reduce the maintenance cycle with withdrawable components that can be easily removed and replaced, downtime can be greatly minimized.

    http://www.windsystemsmag.com/article/detail/63/a-greener-wind-farm

    Reply
28. normanb September 8th, 2011 at 12:43 am 28

    In response to New Progressive Alliance @ 15

    Just exaggeration/hyperbole/sick joke to include Irregular Times … just as an excuse to run the “Enemy’s List.”

    Reply