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(photo: daniel.julia/flickr)
This is interesting. The Catalan regional parliament voted 85 to 50 to hold a referendum on whether or not to remain in Spain, according to the World Socialist Web Site:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/cata-s29.shtml
From the article, which really should be read in its entirety:
The resolution states: “The Catalan parliament affirms the necessity of the Catalan people to decide freely and democratically their collective future and calls on the [regional] government to hold a consultation first and foremost within the next legislature.”
It adds, “The attempts by Catalonia to fit in the Spanish state and their repeated responses are now a dead end …. Catalonia must initiate a new stage towards the right to decide.”
Not only interesting, but potentially very significant. I don’t live in Spain, but there’s an FDL regular who does. Hey, David Seaton! You’re in Madrid, which isn’t all that far from Barcelona where that resolution just passed. I’d love to see your perspective on this, which is undoubtedly more well-informed than mine is, sitting in Ohio as I do.
Of course, anyone else who can shed some light on this subject for me is most welcome to do so.
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It does have in interesting history and according to Wikipedia had been an independent region until Franco.
This is especially significant, I would think.
Wikipedia
I guess that ties into Catalonia’s part in supporting the Spanish Republic during their Civil War. Thanks, I did not know that.
This brings up some interesting points here as well. Unlike the bellicose ramblings of those in the south, there has been other independent movements for a while.
Indeed the north west has had a Cascadia movement for some time.
Cascadia was initially envisioned by Jefferson to become and independent country and was in the mid 1800s set up as such.
There is some question in Spain about how truly serious this really is.
The present argument between Catalonia and the central government is first of all about money. Catalonia is terribly indebted and dunning the central government for more money and has been refused.
At the same time the central government is trying to soothe the bond markets. Raising the prospect of Spain’s disintegrating makes the markets nervous and raises the interest Spain has to pay to borrow money. So, there is a reasonable suspicion that there is more than a whiff of blackmail involved in this sudden drive for independence. It is a gun put to Madrid’s head, while they are negotiating the terms of an EU bailout.
There is also another factor to consider. CIU, the party in power in Catalonia, has been making very drastic cutbacks in public services, this has led to their growing unpopularity, so there is also a reasonable suspicion that this sudden drive for independence might serve as a distraction from the increasing impoverishment of the voters.
Now having said this, I should say that the the Catalonian nationalist movement is perfectly legitimate and has achieved many important victories in the transfer of power from Madrid to Barcelona, especially in questions of language and culture, but even to having their own police force. However, the support for actual independence has always been well below 50% at the best of times. Catalonia has been unambiguously part of Spain since 1711 (some would say since 1469) so we are not talking about Estonia or Latvia here. This sudden urgency is more than a trifle suspicious.
My personal feelings are like those of someone who is the life long friend of both members of a married couple that are going through a horrible divorce. I don’t want to be forced to “choose sides” in the quarrel, as I would like to remain friends of both of them, no matter what happens in the future.
My experience is that this can put one in a rather tenuous position with both. Can you say rock and a hard place.
Thank you very much. I think you and others in Spain have some very reasonable suspicions about the timing of this. It’s also interesting how the central government has cut back on aid to the provincial governments, much like in America where the federal government cut back on aid to the states, which in turn often cut back on aid to local governments, which in turn lay off lots of local government employees.
Who gains from all of this?
“If you want to know why something happened in politics, first, follow the money. Then you’ll see who has something to gain from it, and you’ll probably have your answer. Not always, but most of the time.”
–my father
I am picking up a strong whiff of investment bankers and financiers.
Whoops. That last was intended as a reply to David Seaton. I really do appreciate your perspective, sir.
Like I said in a previous post,
Profit margins are falling, salaries are stagnant, consumption has been maintained by credit… now the credit is drying up… the middle classes in developed countries are suffering, inequality is rising… We are definitely moving into a new phase.
Spain since before Livy’s “War with Hannibal ” has had different ethnic groups and languages Basques on the border with France for example have wanted independence since Roman times and their language might be the oldest spoken tongue in Europe.
Galicia in the North is Celtic and has its own language. Castilians are Visi Goths ( Western Goths basically a German tribe) and try and make everyone speak their version of Spanish with the long S sound because one of their inbred kings stuttered and so everyone stuttered.
Anyway Catalonia leaves everyone else will try and leave too. This is serious Spain despite 1,000 of years has always stayed together despite being maybe the most ethnically diverse state racially and with language in Europe.
Its Moorish blood which gives Spaniards high Malaria resistance and lets not forget the Spanish Jews along with the other groups in Spain.
I think the EU bailout terms are evil and should be resisted but it would be sad to see Spain go.
All true, and all of which I knew. Glad you did, too.
Hey! That rhymes!
Did you know that the closest living language to Basque is Finnish? Ah, the twists of history.
Anyway, I too would hate to see Spain go down. I hope they are able to find their own way. They certainly won’t get any help from investment bankers.
Isn’t there some resentment among the Catalons about the distribution of tax monies? The *relatively* wealthy Barcelona sends it all to Madrid and Madrid redistributes it as it see fit?
However, the Basques take what they need from their own tax collections and send what’s left to Madrid?
Is that true? Got a source? I really don’t know, but that could explain a lot as well. The Basques are awarded for decades of armed resistance and the Catalans pay more?
Damn. If that’s true, I just have to ask, has the Spanish central government learned ANYTHING over the last 700 years?
They obviously have in other spheres, but really…
This is news if the Finns are that old then maybe the Laplanders were the migrant group I always thought they were older and the the myths of the Vanir were borrowed from them but if not the Aesir wandering meeting the Vanir and there being a war refer to another group encountered before they reached Finland.
Do we have any news about how serious Catalonia is about leaving? If they leave I assume the Germans fearing Spain won’t pay will cancel any bailout deal. Spain fearing this will likely send in troops. Read what Erasmus says about Spanish solders or accounts of the Spanish Civil war bloody house to house fighting is what both sides will likely do. Talking is not their strong suit.
The last I remember reading is that Fins – what my father called Fin Finns – came from around the area of Estonia. That the language there was the closest to Finnish.
But this is hard to say since up until the late 1800s Finland was part of Sweden. So we also have Swedish Finns like my Uncle was and there are also Russian Finns as well.
My father’s family comes from central Finland. Maukonen, Maijala, Maki, Ristamaki.
Finns I assume came from the same indo european language mythical homeland as the other members of that language group but between there and Finland they ran into the people who’s god’s were the Vanir and adopted them into their religion.
So I think we are talking about either Laplanders or some group between Finland and where ever the Ayran’s Mythical Homeland was.
I need to research this more.
Comrade Seaton’s conjecture on blackmail makes most sense:
Say, do you think there might be some Catalan compradors behind this?
Of course, what is really disheartening is that in once Revolutionary Catalonia, the “progressive” parties vote for this reactionary bullshit and the conservative parties against.
Fuck the bourgeoisie.