I don’t write about torture as much as I used to. But I do think a little clarification of what the law is, and what the obligations of Eric Holder and Barack Obama under the Convention Against Torture are, is in order. Further, if Mr. Holder, as expressed, wants to prosecute those who went beyond the good faith interpretation of the Department of Justice memos, then with all due respect, Mr. Attorney General, Richard B. Cheney should be a target of those investigations.
From the interview with Chris Wallace:
Chris Wallace: Let me ask you, you say you’re proud of what we did. The Inspector General’s report, which was just released, from 2004, details some specific interrogations: Mock executions. Uh, one of the detainees threatened with a handgun and with an electric drill. Uh, waterboarding Khalid Shaykh Mohammad 183 times. First of all, did you know that was going on?
Dick Cheney: I knew about the, ah, waterboarding. Um, not specifically in any one particular case but as a general policy we had approved. The fact of the matter is, the Justice Department reviewed all of those allegations. Um, several years ago. They looked at this question of whether or not somebody had an electric drill in a, uh, an interrogation session. It was never used on the individual, or they brought in a weapon, never used on the individual. The judgment was made then that there wasn’t anything there that was improper, or illegal, with respect to the conduct…
Point by point:
- Mock executions, threatening with a handgun, threatening with an electric drill. Title 18, §2340: "As used in this chapter,[...]2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means prolonged mental harm caused by, or resulting from — [...](C) the threat of imminent death; or (D) the threat that another person will imminently be subject to death,…"
- Waterboarding. Ruled multiply by the U.S. government and international criminal tribunals, the European Court of Human Rights, and assessed by the Special Rapporteur on Torture, the Committee Against Torture, the International Committee of the Red Cross, and in U.S. courts, to be torture under both the meaning of the Convention Against Torture, and the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.
- With respect to the OLC memoes, both by John Yoo/Jay Bybee, and by Steven Bradbury, prohibit acts which would constitute a credible threat of imminent death to the prisoner. Quoting from Yoo/Bybee 08/01/02 on Abu Zubaydah, page 11-12:
We next consider whether the use of these techniques would inflict severe mental pain or suffering within the meaning of Section 2340. Section 2340 defines severe mental pain or suffering as "the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from" one of several predicate acts. 18 U.S.C. § 2340(2). Those predicate acts are: (1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (2) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; (3) the threat of imminent death; or (4) the threat that any of the preceding acts will be done to another person. See 18 U.S.C. § 2340(2)(A)–(D). As we have explained, this list of predicate acts is exclusive. See Section 2340A Memorandum at 8. No other acts can support a charge under Section 2340A based on the infliction of severe mental pain or suffering. See id. Thus, if the methods you have described do not either in and of themselves constitute one of these acts or as a course of conduct fulfill the predicate act requirement, the prohibition has not been violated. See id. Before addressing these techniques, we note that it is plain that none of these procedures involves a threat to any third party, the use of any kind of druges, or for the reasons described above, the infliction of severe physical pain. Thus, the question is whether any of these acts, separately or as a course of conduct, constitutes a threat of severe physical pain or suffering, a procedure designed to disrupt profoundly the senses, or a threat of imminent death. As we previously explained, whether an action constitutes a threat must be assessed from the standpoint of a reasonable person in the subject’s position. See id. at 9.[my bold at end]
Clearly, the OLC, whatever else they did or didn’t do, never explicitly or implicitly, approved any technique or procedure that would be reasonably interpreted as a threat of imminent death.
- As to waterboarding, the OLC memoes explicitly state that they are based on the information provided to the OLC by the CIA concerning the safety of the technique and it’s use, the length of individual sessions, and the length of the total interrogation comprising multiple sessions. The CIA-OIG report, footnotes at pp.21-22, makes clear that this was not complete information with respect to safety, and therefore with respect to whether or not a "reasonable person" would interpret the technique as a threat of imminent death:
According to the Chief, Medical Services, OMS [Office of Medical Services] was neither consulted nor involved in the initial analysis of the risk and benefits of the EITs, nor provided with the OTS report cited in the OLC opinion. In retrospect, based on the OLC extracts of the OTS report, OMS contends that the reported sophistication of the preliminary EIT review was exaggerated, at least as it relates to the waterboard, and that the power of this EIT was appreciably overstated in the report. Furthermore, OMS contends that the expertise of the SERE psychologist/interrogators on the waterboard was probably misrepresented at the time, as the SERE waterboard experience is so different from the subsequent Agency usage as to make it almost irrelevant. Consequently, according to OMS, there was no a priori reason to believe that applying the waterboard with the frequency and intensity with which it was used by the psychologist/interrogators was either efficacious or medically safe. [my bold]
So all three cases mentioned by Chris Wallace specifically involve threat of imminent death to a reasonable person, and Dick Cheney specifically in the quote states he was aware of the waterboarding and it was a policy he (and others) approved.
- Mr. Cheney’s contention that the review concluded that there was nothing illegal or improper is incorrect. It concluded that a prosecution should not be pursued. Conflating those two is the classic Ollie North defense: They didn’t put me in jail so they must have concluded it was legal.
With respect to threats of imminent death, Steven Bradbury has additional opinions, and does conclude about waterboarding (5/10/05 memo at (pdf page) 43),
The sensation of drowning that we understand accompanies the use of the waterbaord arguably could qualify as a "threat of imminent death" within the meaning of section 2340(2)(C) and thus might constitute a predicate act for "severe mental pain or suffering" under the statute. Although the waterboard is used with safeguards that make actual harm quite unlikely, the detainee may not know about these safeguards, and even if he does learn of them, the technique is still likely to create panic in the form of an acute instinctual fear arising from the physiological sensation of drowning.
Although the redoubtable Mr. Bradbury goes on to debate whether or not the effects are prolonged enough to qualify as "prolonged harm", and concludes against it, based on some absolutely ludicrous interpretations of the dangers involved, the people experimented on, and so forth, it is quite clear that the dangers of waterboarding as a threat of imminent death were known when Mr. Cheney approved of its use, that in no way, shape or form did the OLC, even in its most reprehensible incarnations of Yoo and Bradbury express to the CIA that it was ever permitted to threaten imminent death or cause prolonged mental harm. Mr. Cheney, on the other hand, expressly took credit for the program, expressly approved of the explicit threats to Chris Wallace, and expressly approved of the waterboarding of Khalid Shaykh Mohammad, even exceeding the guidelines of the OLC. Clearly, Mr. Cheney fits the criteria expressed by Mr. Holder in all respects, on not remaining within the guidelines of the OLC in good faith.
So what should happen? A credible allegation of torture has been made, there are victims of torture that are available for testimony, and witnesses and documents. The name of at least one perpetrator, Richard B. Cheney, is known, as are his whereabouts and activities. The Convention Against Torture is clear on procedure, the steps are listed in a clear, temporally ordered, sequence there:
Article 6
1. Upon being satisfied, after an examination of information available to it, that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is present, shall take him into custody or take other legal measures to ensure his presence. The custody and other legal measures shall be as provided in the law of that State but may be continued only for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted.
2. Such State shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
3. Any person in custody pursuant to paragraph 1 of this article shall be assisted in communicating immediately with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national, or, if he is a stateless person, to the representative of the State where he usually resides.
4. When a State, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody, it shall immediately notify the States referred to in article 5, paragraph 1, of the fact that such person is in custody and of the circumstances which warrant his detention. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 2 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the said State and shall indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.
In other words, Mr. Cheney is to be taken into custody on the allegation of torture, at the beginning of the proceedings, before the preliminary inquiry, not at the end, and foreign governments are then to be notified as to whether or not the arresting state is going to "exercise jurisdiction", i.e. conduct investigation, prosecution, punishment, and reparations. And there is nothing in the CAT specifying that special procedures are to be taken for former members of the fourth branch of government, regular guests on Sunday talk shows, or people whose daughters claim "political controversy" or "policy debate" on TV.
U.S. Marshals, your duty is clear.



33 Comments







Now that is a very narrowly-focused argument that even those who are pro-Torture could not fail to appreciate, if only for its laser-like focus: Bad Faith
Nor, I am pretty sure, does the Constitution mention anything about that fourth branch of government; so, Cheney and his apologists certainly can’t go looking there for help.
In fact, I must add that even claiming to be the only member of the fourth branch of our government is enough evidence of Bad Faith to start with…
Great post ondelette. The more they appear and bleat about these things on the talk shows, the more they indict themselves. It remains to be seen how much of the law Holder will continue to keep outside the narrow focus allowed by his self-imposed blinders.
Thanks for this ondelette. I’m pretty sure the gun incident also implied the shooting of another “detainee” in another room, so that covers the threat of imminent death of another person, as well.
Will Fox News cover the Cheney perp walk?
Excellent post! Will use with attribution, if that is cool?!
If he was incarcerated, can you imagine the flood of whistleblowing that would ensue??
Yes, you may use it. As to the whistle blowing, that’s why the CAT wants the incarceration at the beginning. So victims and whistle blowers will feel it is safe to come forward. This man has more than admitted to torture, on the record. If this were a terrorist and the FBI were recording what Fox News has recorded, this would be considered a confession. Following the law says we should arrest this Torture Mastermind immediately, not allow him to debate it on TV.
What, you think that Obama giving him extended Secret Service protection – far beyond what any other former VP has received, is not pretty close to keeping him in custody?
I’m sure his phone calls and mail are being screened, too.
Prediction: soon, he’ll be told by his guards that security concerns will keep him from granting interviews.
I like that!!
Can you imagine the collective sigh of relief throughout the world once this sick bastard is under arrest?! It might throw the earth out of its orbit!!
Can we embed pictures here, because I have a hat that said IMPEACH BOTH!, from late last summer, which I modified by crossing out IMPEACH and replacing with ARREST, and then wrote their names? It’d by a small shot, from picasa.
right. you have a lot a faith in Obama’s motives at this point. All ive seen from him is a politician interested in getting re- elected. He’s wants money from corporate donors and not much else
Nice job! Good reasoning! Thanks!
Recommended. Thank you, ondelette. Below is an excerpt from one of my comments at Elliott’s diary yesterday on Cheney’s Fox interview:
Is Cheney actually going to argue as a defense that all his actions were at the direction of the Commander In Chief, therefore legal?
It’s gonna be one helluva DC foodfight, if Acquarius is onto something!!
Styve, I’ve studied this angle before. I may post a diary on it. If some interest (on a sound basis) can be stirred up at least it would ratchet up Cheney’s blood pressure. No tellin’ what it would do to Junyah.
I’ll take some stomach medicine and begin a review of Cheney’s statements and video clips since Jan 20, 2009. I welcome any suggestions and links.
Acquarius…I recommend that you read some/all of Gellman’s book on Cheney, “Angler”, if you are looking for context to use in your presentation of Cheney’s crime spree. His manipulation strategies are laid bare, and could be useful when making an argument that this dude should be in lock-up.
Styve, I meant to narrow the Cheney research down to only his statements which point to his probably laying full legal liability onto GWB who ‘directed’/authorized the program, since only the pres and DNI have the authority to ‘direct’ the CIA’s ops. (see robspierre @ 27).
So far, I’ve watched 3 prior video clips, that’s all I could take.
Earliest was ABC 12/15/08 “…they [CIA] talked to me as well as others …and I supported them.”
Then, Rachel, 12/17/08 where he said that he reviewed the program, as well as others, and supported it.
Then , FOX, when Cheney was asked if GWB knew the full extent of the ‘Program’, he said to the effect -
And now his latest last Sunday, quoted above, that ‘the president directed it’…
So, as Robspierre states @27, it comes down to whether the pres (or VP when ‘directed’ by the pres – even tho we know that’s a lie) are above the law when it comes to (1) invading a sovereign country without provocation or its being an imminent threat, and (2) authorizing and ordering torture be committed on captives of the USA.
If the Justice Department finds they acted on authority as the Commander In Chief, then we have either a dictator or a monarch, not a republic. IMHO.
Come on, fool! The ‘law’ meaning nothing to our leaders. They enforce it if they feel like it. Cheney will never be held accountable. Obama, like Bush and Cheney, sees the law as optional. Remember, he’s issuing signing statements and allowing torture and rendition as well as permenant imprisonment of civilians who have been tortured. This country is simply over. The corporations rule us now. Millions will die. But no one named Obama. He is feathering his nest quite nicely, thank you. I guess no politician care for the citizens now. Just themselves and their ‘war chests’. It’s disgusting. This is a barbaric country inhabited by barbaric people. We should not be allowed to exist any longer. The sooner the other nations put an end to the USA, the better.
good to see you posting here ondelette .. i used to enjoy your notes over at balkinization in the comments section ..
i like your premise here .. and i too think it’s time to put the cuffs on dick cheney .. and his sock puppet .. david addington as well …
Good to see you, too. This one doesn’t begin to scratch the surface of the bad faith and going beyond the OLC guidelines. The guidelines themselves are a manufacture of bad faith, since the information provided by John Rizzo and the OTS, and later even by the OMS at the CIA, ignores the cases that were already piling up under military and contractor custody. And none of them examine any converse effects: What does sleep deprivation do to the effects of extreme isolation? What does waterboarding do to the effects of sleep deprivation? Those sound like ridiculous questions in the current debate. But Jeff Kaye went through the sleep deprivation S.O.P.s and showed how cruel this innocuous sounding technique really was. There’s plenty more to go through.
Just as an example, someone goes through waterboarding and is then tied in the prone sleep deprivation pose, let’s say. The prone sleep deprivation pose is prone on a towel on a floor with legs and arms tied up off the floor with shackles to opposing walls of the room. Your body weight is either on your limbs (strappado), or it is on your torso. If on your torso, it is functionally equivalent to a police tactic called “hog-tying” (wrists and ankles bound together behind the prisoner, prisoner face down on the ground). EMS workers cannot move someone in that position if they have trauma, especially trauma to the lungs, because of the risk of positional asphyxiation.
The latter won’t occur unless there is damage to the lungs usually — for instance, the damage caused by “dry drowning”. But the dry drowning is a possible consequence of waterboarding, as evidenced by memoes talking about being able to perform an emergency tracheostomy. So there is a real risk of death from the sleep deprivation technique if the person has been waterboarded. Not in the documents, though, they deliberately avoid known sequences which may cause harm. How, then, was there “good faith” involved in their construction or those following them?
The synapses and ion channels in the neurons in the brain, as well as ion channels in the glial support cells, require refurbishment on a timescale of 10-30 days, much like skin replenishes itself with new cells all the time. No signals or wrong signals begin to cause actual biological changes. That is a fact that makes extreme isolation something that creates prolonged harm, alters the senses and profoundly disrupts the personality. So now, to continue working with converses, what is the effect of sleep deprivation on extreme isolation? Sleep deprivation alters the balance of chemicals in the brain. The lawyers at the OLC and at the CIA go to great lengths to show that this is remedied by a good night’s sleep, but what if it is the only sensory input interrupting extreme isolation or other sensory deprivation? What if the only substantive neural activity a person experiences over a period of months is the hypnagogic visions caused by lack of sleep? Those are dream material, what if they are filled with the threats of imminent death from an interrogation session? Are the effects still transient?
The OLC memoes, Yoo/Bybee, Bradbury, even Levin/Goldsmith, rely heavily on staying on the CIDT side of the line, because they all thought that CIDT could be committed with impunity without a “substantial U.S. presence” (a deliberate misreading of the U.S. reservations to the CAT). They warn over and over again about crossing the line with severe physical or psychological pain and suffering. The say over and over again that they rely on the “research” that the would be interrogators provided them to find that the line has not been crossed.
Therefore, the only thing needed to show that bad faith or excess has been committed is the existence of anyone whom these techniques have harmed. There are plenty of dead and unfit to stand trial. There is no such thing as good faith at the top of this pyramid, and they know it.
Some pundits this weekend were saying that the only legacy the Bush-Cheney presidency has left is (the canard) that they kept America safe because there has been no attack. So these pundits claim that is why The Dick and Liz are seeking so much air time. I think they are also slightly worried about jail time for The Dick.
How anyone could balance a possible US attack which would probably be far less devastating than the twin towers with the millions who have suffered and died and the disgusting torture and murder in our names is beyond any logic. I recognize logic doesn’t appear much in our political discourse anymore.
Did anyone see Liz Cheney on This Week? What a lying sack she is?! Denying rapes occurred and even that torture occurred, period…gave me an instant headache! I would love to find a transcript…
Start with Water Torture and don’t give up if he tries to talk or get off the table!
Hold him down REAL GOOD and keep that water pouring down his throat!!
Who knows, he might even tell us where his “secret hideout” is located.
I’m also glad to see you here, ondelette. I’ve often enjoyed your comments on Greenwald’s column. Unarguable logic in this post, the law is clear.
ReaderOfTeaLeaves has an excellent, thought provoking diary up here on the subject of Cheney and his minions, why they defend their position, and why they use personal attacks when they have no facts and evidence to prove their delusions and their own records convict them.
Great piece, ondelette. I despair when people don’t recognize that Cheney’s position on accountability for torture makes the Constitution a dead letter, and the President a dictator who can define what the law is by fiat. By extension, to refrain from prosecuting and convicting those who violated the law by engaging in torture, is to legitimate the claim that each President is a dictator who cannot be prosecuted for his unlawful acts and who can insulate his minions from prosecution and convictions, as well.
We cannot maintain a constitutional democracy without refuting such claims through the necessary prosecutions and convictions. So, up till now, we must say that the President, through his inaction, has continued to place the survival of our democracy in jeopardy. It is the most important and the most egregious thing he is doing. And if this failure to investigate and prosecute goes on for long enough it will be grounds for impeachment.
To those who say that prosecutions will undermine the morale and the functioning of the CIA and could very well lead to successful attacks by terrorists in this country, I say that, neither the CIA and its proper functioning, nor complete success in preventing terrorist attacks in this country is worth giving up our democracy for. We are not America without our democracy. We are not America without the rule of law limiting the executive power, so the executive can’t take away our liberty.
How much is our constitution worth? Is it worth 3,000 American lives, or 6,000, or 12,000, or 500,000, 0r 5,000,000, or 50,000,000? We all will have different answers to the question of what the price of our liberty is, and some will even insist that it is beyond price. But whatever one’s personal answer to this question about the price of liberty is, I suspect that there aren’t many Americans who think that the price of our liberty is merely greater confidence that a terrorist attack on the United States will not occur.
We must communicate to people that what Cheney is trying to do is to persuade us to give up the protection of our liberties provided by the constitutional limitation of executive power and subordination of the executive branch of Government to the same laws that all of us must obey, in return for his assertion that torture works and that it has kept us safe for the 7-plus years of the Bush Administration, after 9/11, and that since this is true we ought to keep on using it and also refrain from investigating and perhaps prosecuting the President, the VP and their minions for breaking the law. And then we must ask them whether they set the price of their liberty so low that they will give it up just for these or similar assurances?
To all those who would give up their liberty in return for these assurances, even if they believe that these ridiculous claims are true, I say you are traitors to the United States of America. You are the ones who are disloyal to what we have built here slowly and laboriously with much suffering, since 1776 and before. You are the ones who fail to understand the character of this nation and its historical mission, and you are the ones who are damaging us far more than the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 did or ever could.
Holder should have Cheney arrested if for no other reason just for daring him to arrest him. Cheney goes on national TV, sends out his mini-Cheney to do the same, just to say nanny nanny nanny goat, you can’t catch me. And then Holder is going to spend a lot of time losing dignity by playing games with what was and what was not ‘beyond good faith’ resting on the procedures set out by war criminal, John Yoo? Does Holder have any personal or professional pride at all?
I know that is a sideline to Ondelette’s slam dunk case, but sometimes or even often times it’s the side line considerations that put the fire under the ass of people as bought and beholdin’ as Holder.
100 people died in detention, many while being tortured. How imminent threat can you get?
And if they use the “absence of malice” defense … how crazymaking is that?
very crazymaking, Libby. Sorta like the wife-beater charged with finally murdering his wife and in self-defense pleads, “I didn’t mean to hurt her”.
[Oh, let me be picked for the jury!!]
Cheney and Obama are made for each other… one is making a career of lying about his role in dragging down our Constitution, the other is making a career of ignoring the destruction of the Constitution.
Would love to see Cheney’s perp walk with headline ‘What the CAT Dragged In.’
Perfect, VJBinCT!! Perfect cartoon caption – Darth in horizontal black/white stripes, cuffs, leg irons, frozen snarl, being escorted into GITMO.
Thanks for again laying out the law in detail. It ha to be done over and over these days.
But at this point, Cheyney’s defense does not rest on what the law says or does not say. He says that he doesn’t care and doesn’t have to care. He is insisting that the right to act with impunity is an executive power. The current adminsitration seems to be buying into the same line of thinking, even if it is doing so more quietly and less outrageously.
This is why, in a society of laws, Cheyney’s claim has to be THE unforgivable crime, the one that is prosecuted regardless of the merits of the perpetrator’s other actions. Cheyney is claiming the prerogative of an absolute monarch, the thing we fought a revolution over. His claim is the high crime and misdemeanor that merits impeachment. Until he is brought to heel and humbled, no one can be safe under the law and no one can feel truly bound by the law.
I love the title of Ray McGovern’s article here: Media Ape Goebbels in Defending CIA Abuses
Ray bears strong ill will toward Cheney and blames him for “prostituting my profession”. (Ray was 27 years a CIA analyst and briefer to pres. GHWB).
What did you expect from a man that shoots another in the face, then expects an apology? He belongs in a 6X6 cell where he can do no harm
If it’s time to take Dick Cheney in, then it is well past time to take Obama into custody. He is slowly but surely destroying America.
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