In 2008 Barack Obama won the presidency in large part due to energetic turnout among young people. After eight long years of the Bush Administration, young Americans were starved for hope in their future and looking for a way to move their issues forward. These votes turned out heavily, and broke decisively for the president.
Over and over again at NN11, speakers and bloggers are taking for granted that the president has a problem with his voters. Addressing the problems the president and the Democratic Party have with their base has been built into most panels and most speakers remarks. To a person all the speakers have alluded or directly addressed the electoral problem Democrats, especially the president, are facing for the 2012 cycle: a lack of enthusiasm and voter apathy as a result of no fundamental change from conditions during the darkest days of the Bush administration.
This afternoon’s youth voter turnout panel with Debbie Hines, Rep. Donna Edwards, Jeneba Ghatt, Kristal High, Judy Lubin and Scott Roberts is not an exception to this rule.
Sometimes I wonder what planet these people are living on. For instance, Kristal High of politic365, and African American politics website, just repeats the general administration line – that we have to “educate people about accomplishments” and be “guarding against voter apathy” and “remind people of what is at stake”. In other words, it’s the 2010 midterm argument. But the other guys are worse! Vote Democratic.
High even floated the most ludicrous idea I’ve heard so far at this conference. At one point she complained about people not seeing local, state and federal politics as an interconnected web, and actually used the term “trickle down” to describe how the connections between the different levels of government work together. She suggests a public education campaign to show people how interconnected the levels of government are.
I can’t think of a worse idea than to convince people to associate all politics with the cesspool of failure, corruption, faux liberalism and Galtian nonsense that is politics at the federal level. That’s essentially telling people to completely give up. Even the most ignorant Southern redneck knows that you can’t count on the federal government for anything, so why would anyone want to conflate state and local politics, where some progress is possible, with federal politics? If there is a quicker way to get people to check out even more I’m sure Obama will find it, but imagining that is beyond my consciousness.
Lubin and Rep. Edwards also got in on the “educate people about accomplishments” talking point.
I’m trying, but still failing, to fathom how someone can think that in the face of widespread disappointment and disenchantment, the problem is that people just don’t know what you’ve done. Here, I’ll help all you elected officials and DC insider types understand where you’re going wrong:
IF PEOPLE CANNOT SEE THE CHANGE IN THEIR LIVES, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE THEM IT’S THERE. The simple fact that enthusiasm is so low is prima facie evidence that the President and other federal Democrats are complete failures at pursuing the agenda of their base.
Essentially, what we’re seeing here is a bunch of people who don’t have to worry about their paycheck talking about how they’re going to convince people who do that there is a “there” there when there isn’t. Confusing? Good, it should be. The mental gymnastics required to believe that are possible only with a DC paycheck.



129 Comments

Love the title of this diary! Have you thought of creating a website with the title “lying eyes” in it? You could have one section for Democrats, another for Republicans. Surreal statement in either column get matched against the reality of one’s “lying eyes”.
Well, to be fair, it should also be matched against statistically significant data. But the “lying eyes” part will give this website a human touch.
Hmmm. That’s an idea. If only I had an audience to take with me to a website! I’m just not that talented.
On the upside, you tuned into the panel, which I appreciate. On the downside, I think you missed the point of our session–reality being what it is presently, how do we make sure people turn out to the polls in 2012? Sadly, the economy, healthcare, education and the like are not going to be reversed in 16 months. So the question is, while we’re holding electeds accountable for change, how do we keep voters engaged until change occurs? Absolutely, talking to people about the policies underway, their intended outcomes and the alternatives is 100% necessary. By the same token, it’s imperative that people understand that what happens at the federal level has to be implemented and managed by local and state level officials. They are totally interconnected, whether you like that or not. And an understanding of that connection is imperative to creating an informed electorate. We should not base our ideals on rhetoric and the cult of personality. Voters need to be empowered to make critical decisions at the polls. They should not disenfranchise themselves because they’re disappointed with the performance of the people we put in office. Exercising the right to vote is a unique privilege we have in this country that should not be abandoned. If you choose not to vote, regardless of your disappointment with some of the alternatives, you cede your right to complain.
Aloha, Kristal…!
If you choose not to vote, regardless of your disappointment with some of the alternatives, you cede your right to complain.
Don’t you suppose that by leaving the Prez selection blank is a tangible form of complaining…? Just a thought…
Obama has gotten his ass whipped by Breitbart and blackmail three times.
Acorn.
Shirly Sherrod.
Anthony Weiner.
I will not vote for him again. He has marshmallows for balls and a Twizzler for a dick. I could kick his ass and I am a crippled old lady.
one outer, did you really expect anything different?
I just read Kristal’s remark and I was stunned for a second. Completely oblivious to the points you made.
People are losing their jobs, homes, families and very likely damaged for decades if not their whole lives, and Kristal talks about … the inter-connectivity of politics and the right to vote.
Now that’s bigger cajones than even I have. That’s bigger cajones than everyone at FDL put together.
RI. GLAAD. And a host of others. And they bought them all.
And the level of misery and suffering in this country ignored. Or worse, relegated to a lower priority than the inter-connectivity of government and the right to vote.
I mean, how can someone actually write that? Honestly I don’t know what’s worse, ignore this piece and “keep walking” or to actually respond as was done.
I mean they’re gutting this country. They’re gutting the weakest and most defenseless. CHIP. WIC. Medicare/Medicaid. SS. With the direct and complicit involvement of the president.
I really have no appropriate words to continue. I can’t post the words I would really use at the sheer audacity, casual callousness, reckless and criminal disregard, willful apathy, and the perverse depths to get a paycheck I have witnessed.
Oh no my friend.
Can’t you see the logic?
If you don’t vote, you have no right to complain. EVER.
If you don’t vote, you have no right to say anything. EVER.
In fact you should not have any rights.
To simplify: STFU, and sit in the back with the other “losers”.
/s
Thanks for dropping in. I’m not in a position to give you a lengthy response, which I really want to do, but I’ll try soon. I’m on my phone now and waiting to get into the fine line for the dKos party. A couple quick things though.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re not really concerned with voter turnout, per se. You’re concerned with people turning our to vote for democrats. Fair? That’s a problem. I don’t believe we should be supporting war criminals and banking cartel enablers. Obama is worse than bush, in that liberal opposition is muzzled. At least against Bush we could int a public defense. Obama just wants us to shut the hell up and do what were told while he does favors for all his rich friends.
I’m also not advocating anyone not vote. I’m advocating that they stop voting for democrats. Voting for people who don’t give a fig about your interests never got anyone anywhere.
And yeah, I just did all this on a phone :)
I do not want progressives to turn out for obama, who is not progressive at all, so this is not my concern. i am more concerned with the fortunes of the greens at this point.
Hi Kristal -
I’ll have to agree with other posters below regarding local vs. federal policy. Vermont is an obvious example with single payer. Marriage equality is another. States can and do lead.
I have pretty much given up on national officials, and think the only way to get change is at the state level. It seems the only officials trying to hold Wall Street mortgage firms accountable are state attorneys general.
I fail to understand why so many people push for a strategy that is not working.
I am sorry but I think Obama cares for the youth only when it is time for voting for him….the President has not tapped into the energy of youth at all….for example the President could have easily called on the his youth network to fight the GOP over extending the Bush tax cuts; he could have called the youth for a MUCH better healthcare bill but he didn’t…the youth have been out in large numbers in Wisc…where was the President? Why was he NOT supporting them? I am sure you are a nice person and believe in Obama but he lost me and lot people…I am older so I have seen this movie but the young people trusted Obama and he let them down!!
“I will not vote for him again. He has marshmallows for balls and a Twizzler for a dick. I could kick his ass and I am a crippled old lady.”
Spot on! But you forgot to mention DC’s biggest other wimp: Harry Reid.
I see other people have been nice to you. But I’m just an old barbarian, so forgive my bluntness. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I interpret your question of “how do we keep voters engaged until change occurs?” as an implication that if we just have patience, Obama and the national Democrats will be able to effect real, positive change.
I’m sorry, but that’s deluded bullshit. Obama and the national Democrats are just one wing of the ruling Fascist Party, the Republicans are the other. There is no appreciable difference between them. By Fascist, I mean one who believes in using government power to advance corporate interests. Clearly, Obama’s actions are those of one who agrees with that statement.
Just this past week, your Vice-President Biden announced that there would be $4 trillion in budget cuts over the next few years and Eric Cantor crowed his agreement. Obama is preparing to announce draconian cuts to Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, and probably such agencies as the EPA in the name of pragmatism and bipartisanship. In truth, it is in the name of Fascism.
Why should voters vote for someone who destroys their lives? I’m not saying they shouldn’t vote, but they definitely should not vote for our current Fascist President or the Congressional Democrats who have gone along with him. They can always vote third party, and maybe bring the SOB down. If a Republican wins, so what? What difference does it make? Economically, none. And right now, economics and finances should trump all. Social issues are irrelevant to millions of Americans who just don’t have the time for them while they are struggling to survive.
That’s reality.
Barack could win back the youth vote (and the rest of the Democratic party) if he started picking fights with the Republicans. Right now, the GOP is completely dictating the DC agenda, while poor ole’ Obama does what, exactly?
If The Man wants to snap the Democratic party out of its current lethargy, he could start by firing Eric PlaceHolder and replace him with any competent lawyer who is highly motivated to jail the slew of banksters responsible for the 2008 financial meltdown.
Here’s another action that would jolt his party: fire little Timmeh Geithner and replace him with someone who doesn’t suckle off the teat of Government Sachs.
Prediction: if Barack doesn’t do something to energize his base, he’ll join George H. W. Bush and Jimmy Carter on the short list of recent one-term presidents.
Dude, solidarity. Great comment. They’re truly living in another world. And that world is called establishment careerism.
x100.
And thank you.
In reading these comments, I see where we disconnect, but to be clear, none of us on the panel a) supported any specific policies, b) suggested who should get your vote, or c) tried to sweep under the rug the laundry list of problems we face as a nation. To the contrary, all we said that voting is a necessary predicate for changin our circumstances. We have to be willing to execute a coordinated asault against failed policies and lackluster leadership, and you ought to exercise your right to vote in addition to whatever other activist means you pursue. That seems like a concept on which we should all agree.
So, you don’t want to vote for Obama, cool. That’s part of the right to vote. But if you don’t show up at the pools, you’re taking an active step toward letting someone else decide your agenda for you. Is it really a sound strategy to abstain from voting entirely because of your discontent. You think tea partiers are gonna stay home? Do you foresee opposing voices sitting it out on election day just because you’re angry with the current leadership and choose not to vote? Are you willing to cut off your nose to spite your face?
Change undoubtedly needs to occur. There’s no question about that. Voting is but one important part of this equation. But imagine this scenario: all progressives and disenchanted Dems stay home from the polls next November. Obama is not elected; the House and Senate are controlled by the GOP, local and state governments are run by a conservative agenda. Explain to me how that improves anything. How does not voting reduce the unemployment rate, improve education, make healthcare universal and end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
If voter education and grassroots efforts at mobiling voters and enabling people to empower themselves at the polls is out, what would your suggestions be for creating a discernible action plan for leveraging the vote in 2012 in meaningful and non-detrimental ways? I’m truly curious…
If I wanted to vote for rabid bat-shite crazy Rs, then I would.
“imagine this scenario”???
And that would be significantly different than now, how?
The man is right of Bush and Reagan combined.
We are living in completely different universes.
In mine the endless wars are not just bad, immoral, and inhumane. They are at a level of delusional insanity beyond anything ever seen before.
War criminals can’t be prosecuted because crimes happened in the past. Sure, that makes sense. But not in my universe.
Wall Street? Geithner, Summers, Daley, etc … How many Wall Streeters in jail? So the financial crisis no big deal? No one did anything wrong? Not in my universe.
I could go on about the insurance industry bailout bill, SS and Medicare and this BS austerity, and the bipartisanship unicorn, aka kabuki theater. But why bother? You live in a completely different universe than me.
Presidency’s a lost cause without Warren primarying Barack Osama Lama 24th century Obama. I’m certainly not voting for Obama or the rep, but ideally I can find a couple non corporate dems locally.
Young people likely won’t vote, after being ripped off by the jackoff golf asshole in the WH.
: )
Where have you been all my life? :)
The country (the world for that matter) is in a VERY BAD place with some VERY BAD people wanting to make things a worse for most of us. Forget both parties…
And I am now safely ensconced at home. For now I’m just going to ignore your original comment because, well, it’s just dated at this point. Also, there’s plenty of material here, so let’s go.
I’m actually pretty sure you don’t see where we disconnect, but I’ll treat that later. I’m more concerned now about two other things I see in this graph. First, you claim no one suggested who should get your vote. Now, come on, you know that’s a red herring. The entire premise of the panel was about how to get people excited again, how to show them accomplishments, how to get them involved, etc. Are you seriously suggesting that you would put that kind of effort in just for the sake of getting someone to vote even if you knew they were voting Republican? So that just isn’t serious.
The second part I’m seeing that really sucks is this “voting is a necessary predicate for changin our circumstances” part. It’s not that simple, and no it isn’t a necessary predicate for changing our circumstances. Seems to me that people in Egypt and Tunisia just changed their circumstances radically without a vote. It also seems to me that a group that control one half of one branch of the government is completely setting the agenda, so our votes in 2008 and 2010 didn’t mean jack shit. At least, not if the president is going to bend over backwards to give the Republicans everything they want.
Not to mention, the President himself campaigned on change in 2008, won an overwhelming victory, and then proceeded to change nothing. He brought in all Clinton’s economic guys, including the odious Larry Summers. He kept BUSH’S FUCKING DEFENSE SECRETARY. Yeah, just screams change.
It would seem like this is a concept we could all agree on. Except you I guess, because instead of “a coordinated assault on failed policies and lackluster leadership”, you just appeared on a panel to help a bunch of other people figure out how support and continue failed policies and lackluster leadership. Instead of fighting it. I think I know what the problem is here (hint: there isn’t much money in fighting the establishment).
Again, I do not advocate not voting. I’ll be voting either Green or Socialist Worker and I think everyone should vote. HOWEVER…we’re fooling ourselves if we think it will get us anywhere anytime soon. Just ask all the progressives like me, or the LBGT community, or the unemployed, or seniors, or poor people, or anyone else that Obama has thrown under the bus again and again to curry favor with people that are my enemies and who you claim are your enemies. Why are you defending and cuddling up to someone that cares more about what Republicans think than you? Why are you carrying water for plutocrats?
Do you hate it when people answer questions with questions? I know I do. That being said…
You’re asking the wrong question, and you don’t really have any right to ask the question your asking. A better question would be: What evidence do we have that working for and turning out for Democrats will get us any closer to those things either? I’m trying to be nice, but it’s very very telling how you just don’t care how the examples you give work against the point you’re trying to make. Afghanistan? Unemployment? EDUCATION? (from president corporate charter school!?!?!?!?)
Was that a thought experiment, or do you just assume someone that isn’t supporting Democrats is such a stupid loon that they wouldn’t know how bad the President’s record is on all that stuff?
I have a better question – how about you show me? You show me how we’ll make meaningful progress on the things you list with the Democrats. Really, if we could, it would have already happened. When a new president comes into office most of what he gets done happens in the first two years. That’s when he has the most political capital and public confidence. And we didn’t get jack shit. So the burden of proof is on people like you who are clamoring for more of the same.
As to your last paragraph, two things.
One, people taking themselves to the polls isn’t empowering themselves. That is empowering whoever is on the ballot that wins. That person then gets the power, not the voter. And Democrats have demonstrated time and time again that they use that power against everything we care about.
But here’s my action plan for voting: stop voting for the legacy parties. Just stop, and it doesn’t matter who you vote for as long as it’s not one of them. If even ten percent of the country did that it would be a huge sea change. And even more change would be accelerated because of the new possibilities that everyone could see existed.
Now, you may have some objections to that. You might say that taking votes away from Democrats is detrimental. To that I say phooey, for two reasons.
1 – As long as you unconditionally support them, they know they don’t have to placate you. Just ask the forced birth movement people about that.
2 – With Obama we’re getting the same exact shit anyway, and without the benefit of a real public opposition from the Democrats in Congress. At least a R president would be opposed, but with Obama it’s all don’t rock the boat. A horrible dynamic. Also – wanna make a large wager with me that he doesn’t go after Social Security if he got re-elected? I didn’t think so.
Really, though, the truth is that voting just isn’t as important as you’re making it out to be. Now, I’m not saying that it isn’t important at all, before you try to tar me with that. I’m saying it’s tangential, while you’re saying that it is a “necessary predicate”. If politicians know that they have your support no matter what they do, then your vote is meaningless. The only thing a politician understands, in the system as it’s currently constructed, is force and self interest. We’re never going to get their self interest – it will always be in their narrowest interest, to their minds, to fuck us for personal gain. But we do have force.
Occupy buildings, plazas, courthouses. Shut things down. And do not go quietly. Make them drag you. And keep coming back. FORCE THEM to do exactly what you want. None of this hoping that they share your values BS; that’s where the cult of personality your rightfully deride comes from. Who cares whether or not they share your values when you can bend them to your will?
In the end though, there was probably no point in my writing all that except for everyone else that may read it. I know you’re not changing your mind. When one is economically successful in an existing system it is not in their interest to change that system. In the business of faux progressive politics, which has gotten huge and obvious to anyone attending NN11, votes that you can deliver to candidates and parties are all that matter. The reason is that’s where the money is. And their money comes from bankers, plutocrats and narrow right wing ideological interests like AIPAC.
It’s human nature to not be able to see things that contradict with the rationale for your material success. I’ve had the same experience. But this is what we’re going to have to break through to get to the other side.
Let me give you a concrete example of where Kristal is completely wrong, and verging on fabrication:
Here, in Denver, OFA maintains a completely separate and competing apparatus with the Democrats. In the last two local elections we’ve had, OFA came in and upset the locals choice for Senator – Romanoff, and tried in the Mayoral race we just had with supporting Romer.
We locals lost to OFA on the Senate with Bennett, but people have wised up, and Romer (banker) LOST.
So who does Kristal think she is talking to? People who call and shoe-leather are one thing first; local, and only National on a secondary basis.
Fercryingoutloud, we’re going to have “personhood” on the ballot again here in 2012, and it’s the “locals” not OFA who is mobilized against it.
Kristal and the other apparatchicks can mix terms and meanings all they want, but your on the ground-involved person like me, sees right through that “professional” talk.
OFA is only making it harder, and will leave in a shambles, the ability for locals, everywhere and anywhere in the US, to sew back together any possibility of semblance of left-of-center policy outcomes with what is left of local Democratic party apparatus.
I have an email to my friend Claire Ryder, who is head of the local Denver Greens to see if I can’t get a video interview with her about how we recover after the Obama years. For instance this cycle, I think we’ll prevail on “personhood” again, but I think the margin will be smaller than last time.
So, bottom line, Kristal should think another think before opining to local activists about “how it works.”
Sigh, yeah, I didn’t expect anything different. I really didn’t. My goal with blogging this session and the Obama strategy presentation on Friday was to offer a more objective, principled progressive commentary to the proceedings that was not tainted by electoral boosterism.
I wonder what these folks will come up with when Social Security goes under the axe of Barry’s signature…
I like to think that many of these people on the inside just don’t see it. They’re in the bubble. I think that’s generally true, that they’re well intentioned but really bourgeoisie and careerist. That fosters an I got mine mentality. I actually don’t think that’s true of Kristal. She struck me as fairly genuine. But that doesn’t mean she isn’t in the bubble and won’t protect having made it. More sigh.
Ree ee ee ee eallllly. Huh. So, even people that are still Democratic activists, albeit local, aren’t brooking this shit? Jesus, Kelly Canfield and I agree about something. This is awesome.
NN, bringing people like Kelly and I together for 6 years.
Heh. You gotta understand, I am issues oriented and can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Never mistake that I care about some stupid party. I care about the outcomes, how to get them, and that’s ALL!
Christ, I’ve been bitching about OFA since December 2008, as I watched that National apparatus walk in and take over what locals have been working FOREVER, and fuck it up.
Plus, you should understand, the head of the CO Dems, Pat Waak, hates my guts. (She recognizes my face, but never remembers my name.)
That should give you an idea…
What one_outer said.
I will add this: Elections are not a synonym for democracy, they are but a feature of democracy. Real democracy doesn’t simply mean allowing citizens to make a meaningless gesture of allegiance toward one of corporate America’s hand-picked criminal puppets every four years; real democracy means that everyone is equal before the law; that everyone participates in, and has influence over, major policy decisions; that citizens, all citizens, are included in a system of just income distribution.
Yes, Obama has accomplished many things. He has killed men, women, and little children with helicopter gunships, drone rockets, and laser-guided bombs. He has made sure that the wealthy investor class got everything it wanted. He has presided over the final transformation of the country from nation-state into the security enforcement division of the global corporate mafia.
Green or Socialist in 2012 — damn straight. But the fight against these bastards goes on every single day. Some of us are the Vietnamese Capt. Willard talked about, and sure as hell, there really is just one way home: death, or victory.
Glad you made it home safely and decided to follow up. Now, where to begin…
First, in asking questions, I’m not trying to answer yours. I genuinely want to better understand your position, so I’m glad you’ve laid it out.
That said, it’s unfortunate that your takeaways from the panel were as you’ve enumerated. Above all, be clear, my main interest is that people vote. You have 16 months in which to declare and run for office yourself, or identify the person with whose policies you most agree, organize your campaign, mobilize your supporters and orchestrate a leadership change. Even if activist activity – the likes of which has been seen in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and even Wisconsin – enables you to overthrow the current government order, you still have to have viable candidates in place to assume the tasks of day to day governance. Your strategy ought to be aimed at the day after election day, specifically focused on how the president, congress, your state legislators, assemblymen, mayor, and councilmembers will usher forth your agenda. Don’t spend all your energy talking about who or what you don’t like. Considering the limited timeframe between now and the next major election cycle, your full attentions are needed to bolster the causes and leaders you’re trying to promote.
Is voting the only answer to our problems? Of course not. But as I said previously, it’s the minimum we ought to be doing as citizens of this country. I’ve had the privilege of voting for the last 11 years. Has my candidate always won? No. Do the issues and positions I support always prevail? No. Will it stop me from continuing to vote in local, state and federal elections? Absolutely not. The right to vote is far too important for me to not exercise it. Too much blood was shed, and too many people were abused and killed for me not to take advantage of it. Being a product of parents who were the first to integrate their schools and suffered daily abuses from people who didn’t think they were equal, my perspective on voting is perhaps different than yours. Voting is but one means to an end. Regardless of whatever else you do in protest of the established order of things, I strongly believe in exercising your right to vote.
I do not now, nor have I ever, believed that unabashed support of one party or another is beneficial to promoting anyone’s agenda. To the contrary, I think that kind of engagement directly impacts your ability to leverage whatever social and political capital you might otherwise have. We’ve seen several examples of just that, none more clearer than what happens to low-income minority communities. If you don’t vote, or consistently only vote one way all the time, the legacies parties will have two responses: 1) the party you don’t vote for won’t invest any time in addressing your issues because even if they did, they know you won’t vote for them, and 2) the party you reliably vote for doesn’t have to work as hard for your support, and thereby you won’t see as much aggressive change as you like coming your way.
I find it interesting that you make so many assumptions about what I believe, who I support and how I think we can affect change in this country–all based on maybe 15 minutes of remarks during a six-person, hour long panel and two responses to your blog post. Do I think voting is necessary and important? Yes. Do I hope you find someone worthy of receiving your vote in 2012? Totally. Imperfect as the system is, will I continue to advocate for people exercising their right to vote in addition to whatever else they do to leverage their political voice? Unquestionably.
Though the answers you’re looking for were not found in our panel, I truly hope you find or create the change you’re hoping to achieve. Best of luck with that!
“people not seeing local, state and federal politics as an interconnected web”…..follow the money. The Federal government takes money from the states…repackages it and gives it back with a federal mandate. The state then gives it to local government with the mandate. How is that not an interconnected web…let’s get with it here, the federal government is the single most generous organization on the face of the planet earth. Eventually, there won’t be any money to take and the only thing we will get will be “Unfunded mandates”. This is the one “change we can believe in”!
Try to give them some candidates they can get excited about?
Meaning dump Obama, and give people some real alternatives to the current status quo.
Maybe hire them to run the guillotines day and night? (that is a French Revolution joke BTW) ;-)
For myself, I’ll definitely be at the polls and voting Green on 2012.
It’s quite simple even for a stupid Vietnam vet like me, people vote with their wallet. We have had enough of Rove propaganda, having it adoped by the Democrats won’t save them.
Diebold voting machines. that’s where the fight should be.
So “just vote” is your message? Lame response, and an obvious feint. You have yet to respond to the substance of one_outer’s questions and comments. “Best of luck with that”? dismissive and supercilious, but just the perfect example of the attitude the Democratic Party has towards what used to be its platform, and its base. As a Green, and a once and future Green candidate for office, it is responses like yours, Pfeiffer’s, Geithner’s, and the entire national and state clusterweb of inept and clueless partisan Dems that gives me hope for a great and momentous uprising of Green voters. (And BTW, one_outer, awesome takedowns and phenomenal post.)
Exactly.
I’ll go even further and say that elections are the means, not the ends.
Most people have forgotten that; the point of all this is not to win an election, but to enact policy.
If the policies are not enacted, what is the point? Keeping out Republicans? That’s what policy has come down to in this country: a game of keep away.
But that’s what politicos are focused on, winning and losing, not policies that affect people’s lives.
And because of that neglect, people don’t vote. They aren’t blind or stupid, they know EXACTLY what is going on.
SPOT ON…THE EMPERORS NEW CLOTHES comes to mind
I used to live in Colorado(specifically, Arvada). I met Pat Waak. Thought she was an arrogant bitch, but that’s just me.
This is significantly more dismissive than I was expecting. That’s too bad.
A whole paragraph on the sanctity of voting? Why? No one is questioning that.
15 minutes of the panel was the most compelling material. I stayed for an hour.
Are you even capable of seeing that a politics and public policy is possible without having to rely on faith in all those elected officials you cite? Tell them what you want, and the consequences of not getting it, and let them figure it out.
Strangely enough, you do recognize the fallacy of all that loyalty to one party. And yet, you appeared on a panel and talked up the need to key people back into the president’s campaign. If you aren’t giving up on him now then you’re clearly choosing careerism over principle. His record is abominable, and indefensible. And yet…it’s really super important we vote for him?
You addressed nothing and added nothing. I’m truly sorry for that.
Well, people have to have something to vote FOR. If there’s one thing Democrats can take responsibility for, it’s finally convincing people that voting is a meaningless exercise. The media is largely rigged. Both parties are largely rigged. Ergo, our elections are largely rigged. It’s not complete, by any means, but it seems to “get the job done,” if you know what I mean.
Next year, we’ll get to vote for the same group of Bozos that have done nothing but kick us in the teeth for the last two and a half years. Now, I’m going to vote anyway, because I always do, but I won’t be voting for Obama or my own Democratic incumbents above state office level. I’ll vote third party or write in a loaf of garlic bread if I must. I’ve voted D all my adult life, so this is a sea change for me.
Here’s a hint if you want to get people to the polls: “We’re not quite as evil as the other guys” isn’t a winning slogan. Nor is, “No matter what you think we’re saying to get elected, we’re going to screw you anyway.” That’s about as disempowering a message I can think of and yet that’s the Democratic Party messaging wrapped up nicely.
So one_outer has a point in focusing more on local politics. There are more possibilities there, for the most part. The national Party is a waste of time and energy at this point. They’re all bought and paid for… and not by us.
If you want to empower people, then start by NOT LIMITING THEM TO MERELY VOTING. Power exists on multiple levels and votes just happen to be one of the weakest expressions of power these days.
Lastly, don’t ever tell anyone that if they don’t do what you want, they forfeit their right to anything. That kind of elitist clap-trap just doesn’t sell well, especially with oppressed people. At this point, the right to complain is just about the only right we have left in this country, since Obama & Co., Incorporated, have basically rendered federal elections meaningless.
You seem to have a dim view of “voters” who aren’t sufficiently with the program of your choosing. If you want to empower people, the first thing you have to do is jettison that attitude. People aren’t “disenfranchising themselves,” they’ve already been disenfranchised by the very people they voted for in previous election cycles.
So stop playing Blame The Victim and start treating them like respectable human beings with legitimate complaints, worries and needs. Those needs matter a lot more to them than whether or not you approve of their complaints.
The Democrats keep whining that their “message” is not getting out. They just can’t seem to understand that they have no apparent “message” except vote for the prez. The message is not the problem -it’s the policies, the lack of spine and the complete punching of the Progressives. A pox on all of them.
Exactly. To most people, winning the election IS the only thing. If “your team” wins, the assumption is that you have won. Too many people do not yet realize that they are, in fact, losing.
Thanks for bringing up the Democratic message in particular. This really was the leitmotif of the conference when it came to speakers from DC. The same message from last fall that was so amazingly successful – the Republicans are scary and worse, vote for us.
You’d think they’d stop and think at some point that if that is the message they have at their disposal, maybe they have a record problem. Even if they did anything now, used the raw power of the executive branch to try and get us back, there’s no trust here and we can’t possibly imagine that they’ll be better when they never need us again.
Their message truly is in itself direct evidence that they have dug their own graves.
Krystal
Thanks for letting us know your thoughts
I will be voting. My first and primary choice from now on will be voting for any / every third party candidate that runs on a national level.
I won’t get into the long term support my family has given to the Dems.
I won’t get into a long explanation of my personal transformation from an Alex P Keaton very conservative type to what many would now call progressive. I very, very, very proudly voted for Ronald Reagan, and Bush the 1st for President. I thought Oliver North was a hero. I thought Israel could do absolutely no wrong, and was justified in any, and all actions. I supported Operation Desert Storm because it was for the oil
Two things were my epiphany: When Ariel Sharon went to the Temple Mount, and 911
That, is when I began to question everything
I still believed for awhile. But those were my wakeup calls. I thought war in Afghanistan was entirely justified, and I couldn’t believe how anyone could vote against anything like the Patriot Act
But then I began to read and learn. And the more I read and learned, the more disturbed I became, and came to the conclusion that someone needs to stop the Bush admin and the Republicans. And I thought those people were the Democrats
I gave up thousands of volunteer hours to elect more and better Dems in 2004, 2006, and 2008. You might notice I didn’t mention 2010. That’s because I began to see the writing on the wall. The reason that so much atrocious legislation got passed during Bush’s admin is because the Democrats not only had no problem with his, and the Republicans proposals, they completely agreed with them
Didn’t Einstein say that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
I might be stupid, but I’m not insane
I’m voting third party
I’m with you.
Amen, man. It’s like we get a choice between hard, crazy fascists or quisling fascists whose only only contention is that the crazy fascists are worse.
Indeed. My reply: “Gee, y’know, keeping your promises would’ve gone a long way towards keeping people voting for you. Now they know you’re all a bunch of greedy liars more interested in preserving corporate interests and authoritarian powers than in keeping your word. Now you expect us to reward four years of betrayal, disappointment, and failure with four more — just because the other guys are worse?”
I already know I will not vote for any GOPer, not even for dog-catcher. If there’s a good Dem in a given race, I will vote for him or her. If faced with a proven ConservaDem, BlueDog, DINO, or otherwise morally and ethically unacceptable to me, I’ll vote 3rd party. Or not at all for that particular office, if there’s no one acceptable to me.
That was my first thought: Kristal is just playing the blame the victim card in a somewhat roundabout way that upon critical thinking analysis of her logic and reasoning makes no sense as others have pointed out. Sorry dearie, they had two years 08-10 to get er done and they failed miserably to put it nicely.
I’m not sure Einstein’s quote here is really applicable. Sure, doing the same thing over and over again might be a bad idea if there is a different thing that might get you a result you want. But if there is no such different thing, then doing the same thing over and over is not ipso facto a bad thing.
Can I break into this soliloquy to ask for a job? Like, can you get me one? Unemployed since November 2008. Oh, and could use a SS COLA, what with rising commodity prices–which were removed from the CPI years ago, clever ploy, to make inflation look better.
Bottom line, here, you support me, I support you. You cut me, I cut you. I don’t vote philosophically. Just as I don’t pay my mortgage or my utility bills or my insurance or my food bills or my medical bills or or or………..with rhetoric. Stale rhetoric, at that.
The rich send their kids to the best schools to figure out how to help the lesser people. It’s called looking down your nose at the poor and attempting to be empathetic before eating at a five star restaurant.
OK, but is not all you said, is it?
one_outer and joeblue got my thoughts exactly. Actually one_outer did a far better job than I could do. The rest of the commenters did a good job in showing how Kristal put up a smokescreen to try to slip through another “see how wonderful obama is, and if you don’t, then something is wrong with you” meme. How much worse would it be with an r instead of a d? Well, I think that what could happen is milton friedman’s economics will be applied more completely faster. Notice that I said “faster” because we are going there anyway. obama is just using K-Y jelly on the broom handle to make it easier to take.
Imagine that. People are having their homes stolen in fraudulent foreclosures and Obama’s minions climb onto the soapboxes to lecture with smarmy platitudes about civics. Talk about out there somewhere.
Kristal’s obviously above it all–and all us. Let’s leave it at that.
Great comment, John!
You and I agree 100% on this, but it’s apparently a completely dead issue. Which is perhaps the stupidest, most wrong-headed “decision” the Dems ever, ever, EVER made. My ATM can give me a receipt, but my voting booth can’t? It’s pig shit and we’re all wallowing in it.
Lily Allen, a British entertainer, “saluted” Bush and his crew after originally writing the song for Blair and Co. It would be so refreshing if she updated it along the same lines for our Bomber Laureate and his crew. Would be great for the WH to hear what we really think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WUD-nhsmkw
Obameh’s a Bush PLANT; taking the dive for JEB 2012!
Not vote? Not an option for this 65½ year old bitch.
However… When the vote was about to happen on extending the Bush tax cuts I explicitly informed my POS congresscritter John Barrow that if he voted for it I would vote against him. I got “Form Letter B,” you know, the one they send to cranks, in which he ‘splained to me that there were lots and lots and lots of reeeelly good things for “the little people” in the legislation. The asshole has been primaried twice and doesn’t seem to get the idea. I’ll be writing in the most excellent woman who primaried him. (And also voting for her for Mayor…)
I got some e-mail early on from the Obama folks asking for my “opinions.” I shot off a scorcher, citing land wars in Asia, tax cuts being extended, Guantanamo, torture, etc., etc., etc., and asking why I should get all excited about voting for him again. [crickets]
I will most certainly vote, but I’ll bring a barf bag with me, and I’ll be voting for whomever I think will be less dangerous for the country. And then I’ll puke.
I’m late but I love it. What a Fu*&(*& concept.
IF PEOPLE CANNOT SEE THE CHANGE IN THEIR LIVES, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE THEM IT’S THERE
Will said
Yep but I think he’s carl rove plant. We’re doomed
“I do not now, nor have I ever, believed that unabashed support of one party or another is beneficial to promoting anyone’s agenda. To the contrary, I think that kind of engagement directly impacts your ability to leverage whatever social and political capital you might otherwise have.”
Yet here you are bragging about being in the veal pen:
http://politic365.com/2010/09/17/dnc-looks-to-partner-with-black-bloggers-at-midterms-beyond/
Agreed, If you leave the presidential ballot blank, you have declared that you have no faith in the process or fairness of the selection of candidates. Applied to our current President, where is the choice? Are there primary candidate challengers?
This is a thought-terminating cliché and it’s paternalistic:
We always have a right to complain.
Assumes a meaningful difference between party selected candidates.
What if Hillary had won the Primary? How would this Administration differ?
How does George W.Bush’s Foreign policy differ from Obama’s?
Incidentally- The Greeks -who gave us democracy- are beyond this point and have moved to strikes and civil disobedience to ‘encourage’ their government not to cede sovereign control, sell their heritage off to the highest bidder, and their people into debt peonage. They clearly feel they have a right to complain.
I’ve had enough of votes that make me want to puke afterward. Next year, I vote my conscience. At my age (64), who knows how many votes I have left?
Voting my conscience is why I kept writing in folks instead of John Barrow. For president I’ve voted for third party candidates when the opportunity arose, but I don’t see that happening this year.
Exactly what the corporatocracy wants us to do: engage in conflicts about voting. That way we uphold the sham that voting and democracy are synonymous.
Bruce Levine (Get Up, Stand Up) has this to say: vote Republican, vote Democratic, vote third party, don’t vote at all. The result is always the same . . . we end up with “senseless wars and corporate control.” Voting third party or not voting doesn’t change the fact either Democrats or Republicans will win. Hasn’t always been this way, but it is now.
Much to do before we begin arguing the merits of voting. In the meantime, so difficult to escape the shaming and the fear-mongering.
“Bruce Levine (Get Up, Stand Up) has this to say: vote Republican, vote Democratic, vote third party, don’t vote at all. The result is always the same . . . we end up with “senseless wars and corporate control.”
Does he have anything constructive to say about how to change/fix the mess, or is he just railing at the situation like the rest of us?
“IF PEOPLE CANNOT SEE THE CHANGE IN THEIR LIVES, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE THEM IT’S THERE. The simple fact that enthusiasm is so low is prima facie evidence that the President and other federal Democrats are complete failures at pursuing the agenda of their base.
Essentially, what we’re seeing here is a bunch of people who don’t have to worry about their paycheck talking about how they’re going to convince people who do that there is a “there” there when there isn’t. Confusing? Good, it should be. The mental gymnastics required to believe that are possible only with a DC paycheck.”
—
Couldn’t have said it better.
I’m tired of playing diplomatically. Pick a side. Stop calling yourself progressive and showing up at progressive gatherings with the same tired trope.
Thanks for the kind words.
There are currently a number of issues that have the base revved up. The Labor issues in Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan and New Jersey. These have totally been ignored by the administration. These very states were abandoned by the DNC in 2010. NY 26 showed with big bright neon that the base and everyone else is ready to fight to protect Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. The administration is hedging on committing to protecting the safety net. Healthcare is a warmed over Rommneycare. Very few of the benefits will be activated until 2014, a whole two years after the next election. That is definitely being promised “payment Tuesday for a hamburger today” (Wimpy). The administration pushed fo DADT to be held over for the next congress like the Dream Act where it could be fought for with no hope of passage. The Senate passed it in the lame duck session the same way they could have handled the Dream Act. You want people excited then start fighting for some middle class issues. Being recognized for some bibartisanshippy attribute does not generate any active support. An easy one would be to nominate Elizabeth Warren (not one of her hires) for the CFPB. Publicize the fight and put some political chits in the game.
No money should go to the DNC. Send your money to candidates and organizations that you know are working for you rather than for Jamie Diamond.
Thanks so much.
“I’m advocating that they stop voting for democrats.”
Amen. I’ll help.
Are you talking about Super Pacs?
Sinking to the Lowest Common Denominator is a syndrome that exacerbates corruption. (also justifies torture too)
They should have fought to remove personhood from corporations rather than offer the Disclose Act, which was unconstitutional. It would have been worth fighting for. The status quo is a winner; look at all the energy they spend on creative deceptions not to solve problems or make us believe they cant overcome the hurdles, even despite supermajority status.
Franken: “Such a move would be nothing short of “unilateral disarmament,”…”It’s sad what this has come to,” “The Citizens United decision was, in my mind, a terrible decision. But… it’s final.”
Feingold: “Creating those kinds of Super PACs for Democrats is wrong. It is not something we should do. I disagree,” “I think it’s a mistake for us to take the argument that they like to make: ‘That what we’re going to do now is, we’re going to take corporate money like the Republicans do, then after we win, we’ll change it.’ When’s the last time anyone did that? Most people don’t change the rules after they win.”
I saw through Oilbomber back in 2007–but then I was once a Naderite, so I’ve been through years of epithets. Now I’ve moved on to shunning the whole process, advocating a sort of Howard Zinnesque anarchism. Funny though, it’s nice to see a lot of the posters here are realizing that direct action is probably the only way to achieve change. I don’t vote because it’s meaningless. The rich elite always win anyway.
one_outer, this is a great diary and a very interesting and informative thread. I really appreciate the knowledge a FDL and I thank you for writing. Keep doing it – you’re good.
“Why was he NOT supporting them?”
He couldn’t find his shoes.
” that’s deluded bullshit ”
EXACTLY
We’re going to teach Barack Obama a lesson by getting the Romney/Bachmann ticket elected.
And then we’ll have the last laugh. That’ll teach Obama to become a better Democrat, all right.
Is that you Rahm?
Thank you for posting, one_outer. Great read.
Harry is not a wimp. He rules with an iron fist using procedural maneuvers and loop holes, but he’s good at making us think he’s hapless or weak. Hurdles are high or low as he chooses to make them, and nothing gets a meaningful vote without his approval.
see here for filibuster newspeak, orpowwows and selises diaries and comments on actual filibustering and debate, cloture, filling the tree- if you want to learn how they pull the wool over our eyes. It will piss you off.
Thanks for saying that Twain. Just earlier I told my friend I’m hanging out with here that I really liked your comments when I saw your first. Means a lot to me that you’d say that. I will.
hahahahaha
LOL.. well Cherry, we know how you got your name!
Or, maybe, if you vote and your candidate or issue loses, then as in every other aspect of our lives if you complain, you are just a sore loser. That “Don’t vote and you have no right to complain” argument was always bogus.
And how can we complain that Obama is screwing us over if we vote for him again? If we do that, we asked for it.
I intend to vote, but the system is rigged so that there are no decent candidates to vote for. Our Diebold voting machines are completely fair, of course; it’s just that here in Texas, where we have no paper trail, the votes make a hard right turn after they enter the magic box.
Complaining about THAT is just paranoid and irresponsible, of course.
“Explain to me how that improves anything”
We will never see meaningful change as long as republicanism is seen as a viable ideology. Until they actually screw everybody and the screwed among us recognize it they will never be discredited.
At the moment, the left has no clear and cohesive ideology. At the congressional level, democrats stand for NOTHING except re-election.
In short change will require that republican ideology be seen as a failure across the board. And the left will need to counter with a consistent alternate philosophy.
You don’t support specific policies?
Then why the hell should I vote for you or anyone you support?
The problem with this year’s NN is that it totally lacked substance whatsoever. I live in a southwest Minneapolis suburb and I could not ANY reason to attend any NN sessions. They were WAY too expensive and irrelevant to the point of goofiness. (And to think that as recently as 2008, I thought the left blogosphere was going to change politics in a major way for the better.)
I don’t know whether to think this lame lineup that utterly ignores all the big issues like peak oil, the collapsing infrastructure, debt restructuring, long-term joblessness, never-ending wars, climate change, peak food, the lack of a Progressive narrative, etc. is that way because the NN folks aren’t very aware or imaginative, or that this is a deliberate attempt to lead the Progressive impulse into an irrelevant little pen where we can all be safely castrated? (I think they call it the veal pen around here.)
Kristal and company: To even mention the idea of ‘not vote’ to people who read FireDogLake (and Daily Kos, etc.)is ludicrous. These are probably the most interested, most involved, and most voting people in the country. It is also ludicrous to think they would vote straight party-lines. This isn’t high school civics.
He wouldn’t have to pick fights with Republicans, and wouldn’t because confrontation is not his style. He can speak softly and carry a big stick. Like you said he could replace the compromised people that he put in place, like Eric Holder, Geitner, Jeff Immelt, and clean out Bush’s embeds, and weakening the banker class, oil companies, MIC, Insurance companies, or any other corporatist enemies of the people. He could prosecute some just to encourage the others to get with the program. This should all be done quietly.
We have enough meaningless public fights, like Anthony Weiner antics. It’s PR distraction.
But under this system, and with the choices we have, voting is futile, imo. It’s always been kinda futile, but more so now. The US system is so ideologically closed–socialism is evil, etc, etc–you are wasting you time hoping that the powers that be will be receptive to your concerns/needs. For a so-called democracy, the boundaries of debate are circumscribed to a ridiculous extent. The mention of new social arrangements, in which real people have power, under a real democratic system, is beyond the pale. Our representatives have always been and always will be puppets for the captains of industry. Sure, we have some say, in limited ways, but the essential structure will never change. This is as it has always been throughout human history. In the US, our masters are just good as making us believe we have the power through an extensive propaganda system. 99% of the population will, of course, dispute this take on our system, but if you are willing to look at what we are about critically it ain’t much different than a medieval monarchy with some more rights–which they take away anyway as they see fit (ie Patriot Act, executive signing statements, etc.)
“IF PEOPLE CANNOT SEE THE CHANGE IN THEIR LIVES, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE THEM IT’S THERE. The simple fact that enthusiasm is so low is prima facie evidence that the President and other federal Democrats are complete failures at pursuing the agenda of their base.”
Exactly. It’s not that there were few accomplishments, because there are many obstacles to success. It’s that there were few times the Dems in power even made an attempt. There was a chance to hold the government torturers accountable, but instead the Administration protected the torturers. There was a chance to restore some of our civil liberties, but instead the Administration succumbed to the lure of power and pressed for yet more invasions of our civil liberties, while legitimizing the crimes of government agents and corporations like ATT. There was a chance to go after the thieves and fraudsters who were responsible for the collapse of the economy, but the Administration is now for the most part sucking up to them in hopes of campaign contributions. There was a chance to end DADT, to end the war that began with our attack on Iraq, to end our support of the corrupt thugs who now run Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, etc. There was a chance to protect Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, but it looks like they don’t have the balls even to come out fighting there.
I voted for Obama, and I’m not sorry (the alternative was unthinkable). And I was impressed by his ability to bring so many fresh new faces to the campaign, to the polls. That was good. But I was also predicting that in a couple of years, those fresh new faces were going to feel horribly betrayed. I hoped that I was wrong, but it didn’t turn out that way.
Of course I’ll be voting in 2012. It might even be for Obama, as much as I’d have to hold my nose to do so. My money such as it is will go to candidates that I actually like, though. It would be nice if the Greens or some other party could come up with candidates that weren’t a joke. (Sorry, Cynthia McKinney as President? Surely you jest.) Pity Bernie Sanders is so old and (apparently) uninterested in party-building.
Kristal, I’m sure you are a nice, sincere person. In this thread you come across as completely tone deaf, however. No one, including the author of this post, is advocating not voting yet you keep beating that horse.
Your arguments are especially empty due to the fact that many, many people exercised their right to vote in the last presidential election with the full expectation that things would change for the better. No one had a timetable. No one set a time limit. But the promises made, the rhetoric used, and the campaigning that took place were directly correlated to the voter turnout.
The president, the democratic party, and the democratic congress members have created their own problem. And you show up here arguing that it’s our responsibility to fix their problem. The old arguments just don’t wash any more, especially with those of us who’ve been members of the democratic party for over a generation.
I admire your zeal and your work to keep people involved in the process but blaming the victims is not earning you any supporters nor will it build up positive momentum for the democratic party and the president.
Passing a little middle-class friendly legislation, getting on the bully pulpit and supporting middle class and poor Americans, distancing from Wall Street and the rentier class occasionally are just a few of the good ideas people have offered in this thread. Yet you continue to try the shame on you approach. Puzzling.
Voting may be futile – for you. I don’t see voting and direct participation as mutually exclusive. But voting indeed counts.
For instance, how am I to ensure that women still have access to reproductive health rights here in Colorado if I don’t show up and vote down the “personhood” amendments the loons keep bringing up? (We’ve defeated that lunacy 3x now, and they still keep coming back.)
Let’s just say all of us here didn’t go and vote and “personhood” became law? What am I supposed to do when a niece or friend might need those services? Just threaten some doctor to perform a now illegal procedure? I don’t think so.
And that simply doesn’t exclude direct participation.
WHOA! There is CHANGE:
1. If it is real big and affects everyone a real lot, it is worse.
2. If it affects millions of us in relatively small ways, it might have happened.
rmm
Yep… paper ballots.
I think we should working hard on building a third party, but doing that at the local & state level.
Gotta build grassroots from the ground up.
Because reelecting him gives him a free pass to continue his republican presidency and that’ll really teach US, right? When someone can actually explain to me clearly how Romney/Bachman will be any different from Obama/Biden in any substantial way then we can talk.
We’ve already got Romney’s health insurance plan, Romney’s foreign policy, Romney’s domestic policy, Romeney’s catering to republicans, rentiers, and deficit hawks.
But Obama will really show his true colors when reelected, right? He’ll really start to fight for things that matter to democrats then, right? This first term was just a learning curve, right?
NO SALE
what kall said x2.
great thread, one_outer.
No, John Huntsman, and then all the True Believers will switch their brains from automaton to critical thinking mode.
Nobody cares (or they shouldn’t) about Barack Obama. He’s supposed to be the vessel, the means, not the end. Reject the Führerprinzip; fight down-ticket.
Yes, Guillotines! I am with you and voting Green 2012 with a possibility of D’s down ticket if they run against Wall St.
Great diary one_outer, rec’d. Keep writing!
Interesting find. Kristal has her work cut out for her.
There’s talk of of moving 30,000 troops from Afganistan to Iraq, but what of the SOFA with Iraq which required combat forces to withdraw by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces to be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011. Instead of ending the war, not leaving might create a new one.
The CFPB? Will Obama nominate Elizabeth Warren or even make a recess appointment? Will Obamas Bankers gut it before it gets off the ground?
I think businesses won against Bankers high swipe fees, so there’s one.
Economic growth?
one_outer, is this still the message they wanted to get out? Were there specifics?
sigh x100 dude.
Believe me, you are not the only one!!!
sigh? I have some other things I would like to say. But they would get me permanently banned. And rightly so.
The ugly truth is that nothing will change until more college-educated white folk feel economic pain. It’s on the menu, no matter who you vote for. Double-dip recession is here. Hunker down. And take to the streets.
Yup.
One party, the Corporatist parry.
Two branches, R and D. One will skrew us with lube. The other will not use lube and then tell us that they just taught us “how to fish” and then pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, although they just stole our boots before they skrewed us.
Either way, still skrewed. And they call that choice.
You had me at “If the policies are not enacted, what is the point?”
Nailed it. Just nailed it. Thank you for being clear and concise.
Very interesting.
I went from completely clueless about politics to knowing things, and honestly, it has been scary, shocking and disturbing on so many levels.
If you are inclined, I believe that you should write a few diaries about your path. I believe it would be very informative and educational to many here.
And 3rd party – hell ya. Even not voting is a choice if it’s made actively and knowingly. Vote of no confidence or no vote = no confidence in a wholly corrupt and destructive system.
Awesome post. This is why I love Firedoglake.
I am a Buddhist. I’m not a GOOD Buddhist by any means. Still, I have to put my hands prayerfully together, bow my head, and say the Christian “Amen” to that comment.
Meanwhile, Buddha laughs.
one_outer, thanks for attending and writing this excellent diary.
Yes, the Democratic Senate has now had two opportunities to do away with the copout rule known as the filibuster, and refused to even consider it both times. What happened to the concept of majority rule in the Legislative Branch, anyway? Now, we have corporate rule.
I suggest sledgehammers:)
“The ugly truth is that nothing will change until more college-educated white folk feel economic pain.”
Yes, except it’s not just college-educated white people. Your assertion is correct in its intent.
But the truth is that until more feel the pain, nothing will happen. Which you stated.
And they will. Oh they will.
Because the morons are actually doing it.
I have no idea why the PTB is this foolish. They had it set perfectly 2 years ago – they were going to ease us into it. Slow-boiling frogs and the like.
But now, they keep cranking up the heat. It’s insane. Who does this? They already own everything. If I was them, I would just stop it here and “ease” the public into it.
But they just keep pushing and pushing. Either they have a contingency plan or they really are clueless and disconnected from regular people to such an extent they are this reckless.
I don’t get it. They own everything. Why rock the boat when you own the boat.
Their financial crisis/scam worked. Now all they have to do is sit back and enjoy. But they’re so clueless they’re pushing this insanity. I just don’t get it.
“The rich elite always win anyway.” No, they don’t. Usually, yes, but not always. They have lost plenty of times. England in the 1640′s, America in 1770′s and the 1930′s, France in 1789, Russia in 1917, Mexico in 1910, all over South America in the last 20 years.
They will no doubt win again. They will no doubt lose again. As for as what will happen in America in the next few years, oh, they will most definitely lose. The question is to whom.
(sigh) There is little difference between Obama/Biden and Romney Bachmann when it comes to the kleptocracy that is raping our country.
Your profile is very uninformative. Still, I will say the only time this Indians fan pulls for the Yankees is when they play the Cubs or White Sox. I truly hope that pisses you off.
What a copout. Want to come over for a barbeque and talk about it?
This thread is waaay over but I have read the diary and all of the comments and have only one response:
BRAVO!!!
Great job, one_outer!
There weren’t a lot of specifics at the conference cited, except specifics from administration critics. I don’t think that this session was intended to target progressives but instead those that are still on board for Obama 2012. And you know what the funny part is? This session was damn near empty. They may have filled a quarter of the smallest panel room.
Most of these types spent a lot of time talking congressional races, enthusiasm gap and how silly us DFH’s are.
This is the message they were trying to get out: the Republicans are dangerous, and we have to hold the line. The same as last year’s midterms. Some of the keynotes had different themes, like Van Jones and Dean and Feingold, but these apparatchik types were one hundred percent lesser of two evilism. Specifically, the Pfeiffer talk and the campaign strategy session offered no new specifics at all, just a lot of “educate about the stakes” and “change is hard and we need to keep going”.
You could see my Friday diary about the Obama 2012 strat session here:
http://my.firedoglake.com/oneouter/2011/06/17/the-president-doesnt-have-as-many-friends-as-he-thinks-at-nn11/
” I shot off a scorcher,
Every time I get a postage paid envelope from Obama or the Dems, it goes back with this in it:
I am not a Democrat. I am a liberal.
I will support the Democratic Party when they and the President prove to me that they stand firm for the principles that I believe in.
Among these are:
1. No cuts to Medicaid or Medicare
2. No cuts to social security.
3. Repeal the Obama Bush tax cuts for the rich.
4. Embrace single payer health insurance instead of bailouts to the private health insurance companies.
5. End the wars and bring our soldiers home
6. Denounce torture unequivocally.
7. Roll back the encroachments on civil rights embodied in the Patriot Act.
8. Send some bankers to jail.
9. Give unequivocal support for pro-union, progressive candidates running in down ballot races.
10. Civil rights for all
11. Cut the deficit by cutting defense spending first.
I do not trust the president on any of these issues. His appointments to the catfood commission indicate he is just as anxious to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid as the republicans.
MSM reports today that Obama’s poll numbers are dropping once again. Do not be misled into thinking this deficit comes only from the center. He is losing the left and he cannot win without us.
Lastly, I do not think anyone will actually read this. You will shake the envelope to see if a check falls out and throw the rest away.
“That’ll teach Obama …..”
It’s not Obama that needs teaching. Its the next pretender looking for liberal votes that is in need of a lesson.
“The people have always some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness…This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato, The Republic
I second that. Non violent sledgehammers.
Ever notice how events like this assiduously avoid any mention of actual policy? Listen critically and at its core it’s nothing more than intellectually vacuous generic pep rally/motivational speaker/tent preacher boilerplate hokum with a few of the words changed to fit the occasion. It’s all top down, old school hierarchal “do what we say” dressed as “let’s be a team!” rah-rah rhetoric. Nobody asks or actually cares about what the people attending actually think or feel about the putative subjects, there is no actual consensus building beyond the “do what we say” subtext, the whole purpose is to bend people to the will of the hierarchs. They really, really don’t want actual thinking critical participants, they just want mindless obedient cheerleaders to advance their own primarily selfish goals for them.
There is a strong human impulse to “belong” and participate in a “team”. Once you’ve acceded to join, you are generally just regarded as a mindless tool to be used. The currency of the political process isn’t teams, parties, candidates or personalities. It’s issues and policies and laws. If you attend what is billed as a political event and the focus is on the former rather than the latter, run don’t walk away. It’s a scam.
Good grief…the whole damn thing sounds like a filibuster. It would take less time to read War and Peace aloud….twice.
Kurt – thanks for dropping by. If that is really how you feel, you will want to read my NN11 recap tomorrow. It’ll be up on myFDL in the morning.
I will say though, that I do not believe that the convention is entirely or even mostly a scam. The connections I made and the things I learned were entirely worth the price of admittance.
I didn’t necessarily mean this particular event- but ones like it often or usually. A political event without substantive policy discussion is just a cheerleaders’ rally if all it deals with is organizing and process and the ideology is treated as canonical.
Of course any gathering is what you make of it too.
Cop-out or no, the only way change has EVER happened in the US was through mass movements, not voting. The powers that be have to chagrined or frightened into doing what’s right. That’s why voting is essentially an exercise in futility. Per Kelly’s argument, in a rigged system with right wing politicians from both parties no matter who you vote for they aren’t likely to protect reproductive rights. Now, if you get in the faces of the Pols and demand justice that will make a difference.
Let George Carlin have the last say!
http://youtu.be/xIraCchPDhk
this issues are embraced by most Americans (except the rich) so it is not even just a liberal or progressvie agenda…it is what is good for the country…if Obama cuts SS, MEdicare and Medicaud his numbers will really drop and they should…I am not supporting him…