I was unable to attend the first full day of Netroots Nation. I spent my time instead at my day job and I was only able to head over to the convention center around 5:00. When I arrived, here’s what I saw: DC org types, media people and a smattering of bloggers on their laptops. I attended one session that evening, the War on Contraception. The panel was highly critical of the record of the last two years and spoke out passionately against the unabated damage that both parties are doing on the state and federal level to women’s health issues. The panel did a great job, and all the questions were high quality.
Even so, I left disenchanted. The panel was great, but everywhere else were those clouds of Democratic functionaries and media people (especially at the after party). Feingold’s keynote was underwhelming, to me at least. Howard Dean waxed idyllic at length about change from the bottom up, which he’s right about, and still made sure to say that he was supporting the President. Things were predictably staid, with establishment types everywhere and electoral boosterism de rigeur for most everyone with a microphone, especially on the exhibit hall main stage. Energy levels felt low. Veal pen orgs had a big presence, based on the nametags I caught anectodally. The conference looked like it might be a bust.
By the end of day two I saw NN11 with new eyes. I met a bunch of great people from bloggers to Green Party activists to non-profit media folks. Only a mention is required for the well documented performance Pfeiffer put on. Regarding the Obama 2012 strategy session, I observed that approximately half the questions asked of Jeremy Bird, Obama 2012 Field Director, were some variation of “give me a why”. I had several conversations with long time Kossacks in which they expressed deep ambivalence regarding the choices before us and principled progressives everywhere in 2012 and beyond.
It was in speaking with fellow rank and file netroots types that I soon realized what was really going on at this conference. The dominant theme of the conference was not chosen, intended, or likely desired by any of the organizers. It wasn’t discussed by any of the panels or speakers I saw. Instead, it was in the halls, in the questions, and on the lips of those without an exhibitor, speaker, or media badge.
The unofficial theme of this conference was of a movement at a crossroads, with a choice between our most deeply cherished principles and our understandable concern in accidentally empowering an insane and openly fascist Republican Party over a corrupt, ideologically conservative, and fully propagandized Democratic Party.
Everywhere at NN11 there were media consultants, organizing consultants, all manner of firms doing everything from polling to new media. All for campaigns, parties and anyone else that can afford them. I wrote about some of these folks yesterday. They are not capable of questioning the rationale of the campaigns they work on because the system works for them. Anything you want, just organize for a candidate and work hard enough and it can happen. Magic thinking, all self serving, and almost all genuinely self deceiving as opposed to knowingly misrepresenting the electoral choices we have every two years.
These professional political types are well on their way to full commodification of progressive politics for their own gain, as the elite gatekeepers of progressive votes, volunteer hours, and wallets. These folks, whether they realize it personally or not, see all the progressives that aren’t them as part of their business model. In their business model what is in our best interest is what works for them and their employers – any other view is unserious and bound to help the scary Republicans.
The professional class in DC sees a world in which there is no alternative, a world in which our goals and salvation runs through them and only through them. And they’re panicking – they know they’re losing us and don’t know what to do. After all, why would everyone with a microphone volunteer their thoughts on the enthusiasm and voting problem if they weren’t scared shitless they were going to lose all of us – and our readers!?
The countervailing force to the Democratic establishment is us, the bloggers, who make these communities what they are and who all know that we have been misled and betrayed on some level. These folks see the choice in front of them. They are seeing that there is an avenue of investigation into activism other than Democratic politics.
These folks, from FDL and dKos and everywhere else, didn’t get into progressive politics to protect their own little turf, or bump their salary, or get their ego stroked by networking. They did not get involved to select a nominee (and we did – Obama would not be president without the support of the netroots during the nomination fight) only to watch that man as president betray their principles and their belief in him, to say nothing of the spineless and corrupted Democrats in Congress. They do not see themselves as cogs in an establishment political system that merely calls itself “progressive”. They got involved to change a country and a world. And increasingly they are seeing the path forward as around the Democratic establishment rather than through it.
These folks know they have a choice, and they are taking that choice seriously. Netroots Nation is a major data point in how people will make that choice. By that measure, the establishment failed miserably. Will progressives now take the chance to jump ship, chart a new course in keeping with our independent spirit, or will be be subsumed by scare tactics and stern talking to’s?
Are we really the kind of fucking retards that will allow ourselves to be used and thrown away twice?
Before next year’s Netroots Nation, a critical mass will be reached in the blogosphere, and there will be consensus on the direction of the movement that we’re all proudly a part of. Either the principled rank and file in the broad swath of left blogistan will embrace the infinite regression of lesser evilism, or we will be in the middle of a frank, long overdue, and wrenching conversation on how to rise from the ashes of our previous discrediting support of Obama and the cruise missile Wall Street liberals.
Will we be co-opted by the likes of the consultant class or can we muster the courage to cast off the shackles of Democratic Party fealty and stand up for ourselves?
Choose wisely. The future of the progressive movement, the country and the netroots as we know it depends on what you think.



152 Comments

Even a non-veal-pen organization can get caught up in lesser-evilism. See my recent conversation in the PDA blog articleThe High Cost of Voting for Spoilers
One good thing to come out of that unpleasant conversation, was that I was prompted to email Bueno de Mesquita, who has a very good track record as a political game theorist. The question I put to de Mesquita is, “BTW, would you be kind enough to remark on my conviction that lesser evilism, as I have defined it (basically, always voting in the general election for the person from your party, no matter what he or she does; confine your electoral efforts to the primary, unless you succeed in voting out the incumbent) is a stupid voting strategy? I never studied game theory, though I’ve read a Scientific American article or two on it. I was the top chess player in my high school, but never read a chess book. I assume that I have an intuitive ability for strategy, even if I can’t calculate it, as you can.”
de Mesquita’s answer:
Hi
You are right – it is a stupid voting strategy if you care about the outcome. A colleague and I just wrote a very technical paler on this subject.
Az a matter of policy my consulting firm does not use our capabilities to influence electoral outcomes. It sounds like this is what your colleagues are looking for. If they are interested in shaping specific policies that is another matter. Let me know if influencing legislative outcomes is of interest and if they have a consulting budget.
Thanks for thinking of me
Bruce
I wrote a diary about this exchange. See here and the dailykos version.
Very poignant and well written diary, BTW. Recommended.
I saw your diary about this, rec’d it. I dropped a comment suggesting that we don’t stop there when it comes to de Mesquita’s work. If he can help us with policy outcomes, that’s worth exploring.
Oh, and seeing people refer to non-legacy party candidates as “spoilers” makes my ass twitch.
Screw that Hersh guy.
Yeah, that’d be great. I can’t make it happen, but one reason I engaged Hersh was in the hopes that Hersh would take up the hiring of de Mesquita for issues, and some other qualified political game theorist for their (so far implicit) voting strategy.
The Hersh guy initially showed some interest in de Mesquita, but by the end of the comments, seems to have lost that interest. My guess is that he feels professionally threatened. (Or, it’s possible that he genuinely misread my comments to mean that he’s a stupid guy, just because he embraces a stupid strategy. This would make him look bad to the PDA, who so far have enthusiastically embraced his strategies, I believe.)
From the Recommendations Page on his website:
Tim Carpenter, National Director – Progressive Democrats of America: “Mike has been a part of the PDA family since we began three years ago. He is a hard worker who has done field and press work at the state and national level. He is a valued member of the team!”
Mike Carano, Ohio State Coordinator – Progressive Democrats of America: “I have had the pleasure of working with Mike on a number of occasions when we both were in DC doing lobby work for issues being pushed by Progressive Democrats of America. Besides being smart, capable, and professional, Mike is also a warm, thoughtful, and positive human being, which are always qualities for my endeavoring to initially work with someone in the first place. Of course, the bonus with Mike is his wide knowledge base and his responsible attention to detail to see that the task is done well and on a timely fashion. I highly recommend Mike Hersh as the one who will help you achieve your goals. Michael Carano Ohio PDA State Coordinator Teamster Local 348”
Dr. Bill Honigman, California State Coordinator – Progressive Democrats of America: “Mike is tireless, committed, and competent. He would be a valuable asset to any team.”
Patrick Carano, Ohio State Coordinator – Progressive Democrats of America: “If you are looking for political consulting, Mike Hersh is the go-to guy. Mike has an astute perspective on the political and social landscape that will get your message out. Messaging is just one of Mike’s strong points. You can trust Mike Hersh to do the job.”
Ha! It was pointed out to Hersh that the spoilers of yesterday can become the dominant party of today. E.g., I mentioned to him the fact that the original US parties were the Federalists and the anti-Federalists. However, he completely ignored this, and just kept repeating his comfortable and self-validating frame, historical truth and objectiviy be damned. I don’t think he seriously addressed the deep corruption of the Democratic party, even once. Not good for his narrative! :-)
recommended reading!
The establishment Dems and their close commrades are scared, but they will stand by the old party meme in hopes that people are too afraid to go around them, or over them. The only thing they have to say for themselves is that they are not as evil as the other party. However, the entire country is starting to question that.
The repugs are gaining more and more on the insanity side with ever more in your face scare tactics. Until the media monopoloy is broken and we go back to paper ballots our country will fall into the trap set by them.
Progressives have a lot of work to do while we have already done a great deal. Neither party can successfully run on the economic recovery, and neither one of them can claim global competitiveness, or ending wars. The thing this country needs the most is a complete restruction of infrastructure and with that will come jobs, progressive ideals and a way to win over those that have lost interest.
Thanks, one_outer. Great reporting.
Glad to see you revise your opinion of Hersh. I actually read about de Mesquita and watched the TED talk. Not. impressed. at. all. Could poke the same holes in his theories/methods/practice that can be poked into any “modern” social theory for sale, such as, for example, positive psychology. A bit slimy too, if you ask me.
We don’t need our own corral of political consultants!
Let the people lead. What we need are models of community action. And the courage and will to follow the people where they lead. That’s what I see was happening at NN11 ~ the people are starting to lead and that’s why things are moving faster now. There’s no way to MAKE that happen.
And urgent action on climate change, and restoration of the rule of law, and radically downsizing the military, and ending the wars, and getting money out of politics, and getting people more power in the workplace and higher wages [deep breath....] and a left of center political party.
Anyone that thinks we can make enough progress, or even ANY, on all that stuff with the Democrats playing their rich man’s game is delusional. DE-LU-SION-AAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL.
You aren’t impressed by de Mesquita? Interesting. I don’t know anything about him beyond what I read in metamars diary a couple days back.
At this point I’m thinking the best thing we can do is just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
Terrific post, one_outer!
To the extent that NN actually represents a progressive movement, the original Kos version was obviously open to co-optation from the get go. When the confab revolves around Democratic elites being the keynotes, that always was a problem. Having devout Neo-Liberals parading their wares, like Mark Warner, Bill Clinton et al, made things even worse. Inviting Neo-Liberals to NN is like inviting Republicans to the Democratic Convention. Giving them standing ovations is pretty sickening.
But if your own perceptions are as accurate as they seem and are shared by enough other participants, perhaps NN will turn that corner and veer towards independence going forward.
That would be most refreshing.
I am pretty skeptical about all of this “social engineering” and psycho-social stuff (based on studies and personal experience/disappointments) and I think he even used that term, himself. Watch the TED talk video online: based on what you have been able to glean and support using your observational skills at NN11 I think you will find it very revealing.
I think everything we need to know is “out there.” Listen to the people. This is something NONE of these other agents are doing! So, in business innovation terms (IF we want to resort to THAT model) it’s a “green field” play to actually be the first group/agent to LISTEN.
Another great diary, one_outer. Thanks.
Again, thanks for your take on NN11. Recommended.
I’ll do that, thanks for alerting me to the presence of a TED talk by him. I really really love TED.
Thank you, one_outer.
Recommended.
I think a counter-tactic suggests itself, and that is for the progressive blogosphere to push back inside the Dem party. And an idea of “how” just occurred to me.
There will still be a delegate selection process for the Dem convention, whether or not there is a primary challenger. I’m going to run for a delegate spot!
And I’ll use similar method/tactics as the Billionaires for Wealthcare did; wear a Tuxedo, sing and mock! No way in hell will I win, but it’s a very low cost method to push the progressive message back into the party at the local level, as all it takes is time and paying attention to how your local party selection works, and when it occurs.
I think it would be great if tons of people pushed back in the delegate selection process next year; all those will be finished prior to Netroots ’12, and then the Convention follows after that.
Those National types need to see a full on push back from the ground level up, and playing in their sandbox, hard, will make them pay attention.
I was at Yearly Kos in 2007, and gave it decidedly mixed reviews.
The upside: meeting Kos people–those who haven’t made politics their career–in real life; learning more about issues like global warming, the recently-concluded Supreme Court term; meeting people like Dahlia Lithwick and John Dean whose writings I’d read; and the city of Chicago itself.
The downside: watching the presidential candidates punt the question (the one most frequently asked by attendees) about runaway executive power; attending poorly-run panels run by operative types; and being talked down to by operatives when I fumed over Capitol Hill Democrats’ capitulation over FISA.
Haven’t been to NN and have no intention of going. The blogosphere has been co-opted by the party mandarins and from the descriptions I’ve read, these gatherings are degenerating into a trade show for operative types.
I can’t argue with that, except to say that voting third party is essentially the same thing. I’m all for a real big tent.
“Before next year’s Netroots Nation, a critical mass will be reached in the blogosphere, and there will be consensus on the direction of the movement that we’re all proudly a part of. Either the principled rank and file in the broad swath of left blogistan will embrace the infinite regression of lesser evilism, or we will be in the middle of a frank, long overdue, and wrenching conversation on how to rise from the ashes of our previous discrediting support of Obama and the cruise missile Wall Street liberals.”
I hate to be cynical, I really do, but I don’t agree at all that a “critical mass” will be reached in the blogosphere anytime soon. What do we even mean by the blogosphere… a handful of left-leaning political blogs? I don’t think such online sites are unimportant but we are nowhere close to any kind of consensus on policy nor are we close to defining a political strategy.
It is inconceivable to me that anyone who is still a Democrat considers themselves to be part of “left blogistan”. It really is nonsense. Of course, it’s subjective but I define “left” as wanting fundamental change from capitalism, a system designed to create “haves” and “have nots”, to some form of democratic socialism. Those whose dominant agenda is to mitigate the inequities of capitalism with various social programs (I call them band-aid liberals) are not what I define as “left”. Your mileage may vary.
I’m trying to put my finger on what bothers me so much about “will they or won’t they” support Democrats. Not supporting Democrats isn’t a “movement”. Jumping to a third party isn’t a movement. A movement has to begin with a clearly articulated agenda. It has to be built by people who put policies ahead of politics. Choosing among political parties is not an agenda. It’s buying into a system that is controlled by Big Money and Big Media. Before we get invested in new parties, we need to get invested in building a consensus around issues. I just don’t think we’re anywhere close to that… nor are we likely to be by next year.
As long as we busy ourselves discussing political strategies, i.e. how we should vote, instead of discussing issues, I don’t think we’ll make much progress. Perhaps disenchantment with the Democrats is a first step, at best, but it’s a first step of a much, much longer journey. If we’re serious about revolutionary change, there’s not much room in the short-term for parties, personalities and politics.
Here’s the thing for me – I agree with all this. All of it, lock, stock and barrel. The challenging capitalism. Your definition of “left” is my definition. All agreed.
I’m not suggeting that not voting for Democrats equals a movement, and that really isn’t what this piece is about. I’m saying we need a movement and whatever party wants to can come to us.
That being said, I do think there will be an overwhelming majority opinion in the big netroots communities like dKos and FDL on whether or not most of us are considering Democratic politics part of our activism or not.
Edit: And to not consider Democratic politics as part of our activism is a necessary precondition for effective action. Even if we don’t (not you and me, but everyone) agree on what that is yet. I want to get the discourse to the point where we’re even seriously talking about it in large enough numbers.
no it isnt. you are telling the dems you want them to move the right by voting right wing. voting green or socialdemocrat does not do this.
Thank you, one_outer. Love your diaries, they are a must read for me.
You’re right about the openness of Netroots Nation to being co-opted, in principle by nature of it’s conception. However, if I’m trying to do anything it’s remind people that they have agency. That means we don’t have to look to authorities of any kind for legitimacy. We can take what we want if there’s enough of us.
I think it’s possible that the conference can morph into a more ass-kicking progressive event, even if it’s never as, dare I say, radical as I’d like it to be. Making NN more grassroots, less faux progressive org, more forceful and unapologetic from a rank and file perspective, would be a great place to start bending the system to our will. If we can’t get what we want out of our own self organized fellowships and blogs how are we ever going to change or take over a government?
Great write-up! Very artful cynicism restrained.
(Recommended)
Aw, thanks. That’s sweet, and pretty much makes my week. How does one do a heart emoticon? Something like this? 8>
Admitting you’ve lost your faith is the beginning of finding a new world :)
Fantastic post, one_outer.
I’ve had the bug in my head to pen some sort of a progressive collective-soul-searching narrative to lucidly outline the fissures between rank and file progressives and the co-opted liberals and faux-progressives who are still buying the Obama illusion.
Now I don’t have to.
Ooooh. Good read.
Bring on the crossroads. *This* fucking retard has had enough of the establishment D’s.
Back from 5 unexpected days (bless my honey n CFO) at a bluegrass fest, all night jams till 4am or more, sippin n suppin.
Seen a couple of threads I smiled about, including Mz. Hamsher’s diary regarding NRN11 n the Choi Panel, loved ThAT one!
*G*
Still got my head wrapped around minor n modal songs, stories of love, lust, murder, right n wrong . . , all so prevalent in the bluegrass/newgrass/old timey genres.
Thanks OO for your summary n info on NRN11.
I GUESS, there are a couple of paragraphs I might quibble with, but over all I greatly appreciate your thots n perspectives you share.
I only will continue to say, until proggys unite behind employment and job creation they will kill them selves to the death of themselves and their offspring.
The rest is a distraction from the class war being waged on us all.
We The People. The Masses.
Jobs, income, ability to buy. They solve OUR problems and our spending and taxes solve the country’s problems.
Not until the denizens and elites of the proggy party (NRN11) realize it’s THEIR jobs, THEIR lives, THEIR families that are at risk will there be any unity, much less, united, change.
SO Proggy’s.
I’m here to tell ya, and ask ya.
When are you folks gonna stand up and save the nation and we the people by making JOBS and employment the key issue?
This would unite a nation sound a nation’s clarion call, across all divides of class, income, politics, religion.
THIS, would shake the roots and the foundings of the elites who own yer asses thru n thru.
N that’s the hard part.
Elitist proggy’s think they are immune to the diseases that plague us.
What will it take for you elitest proggys to realize, they are coming for you, too?
Jobs. One task, one issue.
Unites all.
How could proggy’s fail this one, it’s worked in our history.
It’s what made this country great, It’s what used to keep our politicians honest.
It’s what is missing.
Harumph.
When Proggy’s?
Excellent observations, o_o .
It will be necessary for the success of a progressive movement to identify the individuals who are prepared to pursue our objectives as elected officials. Who are the leaders of the progressive movement? Who are we voting for? Because it’s still about getting progressives elected. As individuals or even as a huge crowd our voices are ineffective at influencing public policy (in a beneficial way). Only elected officials get to vote on policy issues. The rest of us just get to wail and gnash our teeth. The people we vote for have to start voting for US when it matters.
Here’s a list of folks I kind of like:
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=71§iontree=2,71
It’s the Congressional Progressive Caucus. We should be focusing our support into that organization and its members, because that’s the only “Progressive Party” in the neighborhood with any clout. I don’t see any credible third party on the horizon anywhere. Grow the Caucus into a majority, or at least an influential plurality. Other folks have done similar things and gotten “Blue Dogs” and “Teabaggers” elected en masse (!). I can’t help but think that representatives of a progressive agenda have more to offer the American people. Perhaps voters will notice and respond favorably.
No DKos worship allowed at FDL. Won’t go to NN because of all the orange-licking.
DKos sold out all his progressive members for a seat for just himself at “the table.”
Daily Kos banning policies are a blight on the progressive movement.
I just saw Herr Axlerod on the LOD show..with LOD’s help Axlerod downplaying the anger from people like us and playing the we are trying the fight the evil GOP card..LOD said there a straw poll at NN with Obama getting an 80% approval rating but admitting that 2 years ago it was 95%…Do you guys believe this poll? Most people who I know that are progressives are off the bandwagon w/some still hoping
thanks one_outer!
one of two things that I brought up at the webinar and it’s always seemed centrally important is
what are our core issues?
I applaud most things I see here at FDL.
But more generically and famously, we on the left are all over the map.
Do we focus on green things? Do we focus on how the corporate dons have fucked everyone over? Do we focus on torture or it’s coverups or … information at large? Do we focus on loose nukes or immigration and prison industries? Human rights or wall street largess? Jobs or outsourcing? Foreclosures or credit evaporation?
Nobody knows, they’re all so important. …and I didn’t mention the wars.
My opinion is that if we can pick a few central core things that libs all over can say
‘At last! Somebody’s speaking my language!’ and they will get up and help. Like a couple above have mentioned. Lead and people will follow.
It’s all been talked about. Overtalked. The right already have contingent plans and are working on more depending on what we do or don’t. You can bet on it.
so let’s choose and figure out the issues for what we want to do and hammer them. In as many creative insidious kick-ass ways we can figure out. I’m certain more cohorts @NN11 have ideas on how.
Let’s agree on the what for’s and then we can look at the how’s and where’s and when’s.
IMO
I disagree, philosophically and practically. We don’t have that kind of time on a lost generation of unemployed, climate change, civil liberties, militarism, clean energy, you name it. If we’re focusing our energies on electing progressives in significant numbers, we’re talking about a 15-20 year time frame from where the Overton window is right now. The corporate state is consolidating it’s control more every year. We simply don’t have time.
It’s time to start having an expanded conversation, and crowd source the process of answers. I don’t have all the answers, but will say that I know we need to change the discourse to move forward.
yes Larue, JOBS is that kind of issue that all will unite around now.
But how? ;-)
glad you had a great time this weekend. Sounds like a blast!
I agree with you about kos himself. The rank and file members of dKos, however, are people that we can at least have a reasonable conversation with. That’s the biggest thing I learned, and I have as harsh an opinion of the orange satan as anyone. Netroots Nation is an existing brand that can totally be swarmed by anti-establishment types like us and have it’s foundations shifted.
You’ll be happy to hear that I ran into kos outside the convention center, and he wanted to talk to the person I was talking to (Juliana Forlano of Ironic News, she’s a sweetie). I stuck out my hand, got his back and told him that I was on his site back in 2003 when it was hosted on
ScoopMovable Type, and my UID was in the 200′s…and that I blog at FDL now. That was a funny ass moment for me ;)Excellent post, one-outer, except for this:
“Are we really the kind of fucking retards that will allow ourselves to be used and thrown away twice?”
Calling anyone “retards” is indefensible and cruel; just the kind of language that creeps like Obama’s pal Rahm Emmanuel uses.
Words like “retard” or “moron” are like other slurs: hateful and unacceptable.
those Millionaire’s For Bush et al are funny One of only a few things I would if I lived in NY or Chicago.
Like the idea of the bum-rush-the-delegate-show.
We need more people to do it in every capital. The capitol guards need to know us all by first name’s ;-)
LOL! That had to be sweet…
Damnit. They handed me the poll card when I checked in but I never bothered to take it. Just kind of forgot – I mean, the card said Greenberg Quinlan, and Revolution Messaging all over it. Consulting outfits, so not exactly something I was paying that much attention to.
So I’m not part of those numbers. Can’t speak for anybody else.
How does this academic jive produce change and jobs?
NPA fails, it’s elitist.
End of story.
I think what you are describing is learning to ‘hack’ politics.
I believe I’ve read someone positing a political ‘hack’ is what will save us from this terrible situation.
“It wasn’t discussed by any of the panels or speakers I saw. Instead, it was in the halls, in the questions, and on the lips of those without an exhibitor, speaker, or media badge.”
Really smart people, when faced with that situation, tend to roll up their sleaves.
It’s like a change in electrical potential, it’s a bunch of people having the same realization in unision.
If you want my opinion on what we should be focusing on first, it’s this.
Check Larue’s comment upthread. Bread and butter economic issues, raising wages, even fostering the development of more cooperative businesses to take economic activity away from the corporate sector. Collective bargaining and getting workers seats at the table, control, power. Working class power. The class war, expressed in dollars and cents. The people that make the country go run the country.
That, and transitioning away from fossil fuels. Nothing else will mean shit unless we mitigate runaway climate change. Just look at Venus – conditions half a percent of that would kill us all. Even the rich – their money can’t save them from choking on carbon dioxide. The best part about that is that there are a lot of potential jobs there, in dismantling and recycling the infrastructure of the fossil fuel economy and manufacturing the new energy technology. It’s a powerful and win-only double edged sword.
That’s my two cents on what we should be organizing around and doing direct action on NOW.
Tippytoe over to Huffington Post and read Drew Westen’s latest piece. It’s ABSOLUTE DYNAMITE.
I certainly didn’t mean to offend you or anyone else. I do realize that it is an offensive word, and that is actually exactly why I chose to use it in that phrase. I made the writing choice I made to remind the reader of the moral bankruptcy and contemptuous nature of the elites, like how Rahm called us that. And if they think that about us, who backed and supported them, what must they think about poor people?
I regret that you’re offended but I stand behind the choice as a writer, given the topic at hand.
This was an interesting post. I don’t think the answer has to be too cosmic: support the people you can because they deserve it, and simply do not vote for the ones you can’t. Let the chips fall where they may. I intend to support our Sen. Jeff Merkley and Rep. DeFazio. I can’t really see myself voting for Obama if things continue as they have. There are plenty of state and local issues that deserve our attention. I’m embarrassed by the Democratic Party and that I was ever a member.
Twas, twas
Many of the individual members regularly participate in DKos pile-ones, were everybody online will go dump cuss-out or insult the days chosen victim.
It’s so grade school. They know better. They it anyway.
How many of you who were DKos members have cussed out someone they didn’t know, or about an issue they knew little about. Just started cursing at someone on a DKos thread because other people were cussing at them? Raise your hands.
Not me. You can verify yourself, as my username over there is, yes, Kelly Canfield.
Oh for cryin out loud MMars @6:38am, yer treatsies to times past are aged, decrepit, and outdated.
The times when YER recourses and platitudes mighta worked are long gone.
NONE of that stuff will work now.
The elites have burrowed in too deep.
You should know that and address that stuff. But you n NPA, don’t.
Class war, baby. They WILL come for you.
Harumph.
I like the way you think. That’s a really interesting frame. Hack politics…hmmm.
I don’t know what to tell you dude. I don’t hang out over there for a reason, but we can’t just blanket all of them. It’s a big place. Maybe more of them will start showing up here and behaving themselves. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.
Thank you!
Tell me, OO, how do you see this being enacted?
Without a great effort upon the actions of the masses, I see this system in place as unchangable.
My OTHER scenario is that systems like the one that exists HAVE to collapse, as they ignore the masses.
So there’s two outcomes I predict, with history as my guide.
Your postulations, they have very little immediate or recent history for them to be regarded.
I want a pony with a horn on it’s head.
Not gonna happen, hoss.
You have my vote, and you embrace a small strategy I fully support.
Well done, ya theatre rat!
*G*
“The countervailing force to the Democratic establishment is us, the bloggers…”
I love this place, but how much of an actual countervailing force is it? I see more calls for costly membership drives than any real organizing. Why is that?
I understand the need to pay the bills, and personally I see the value of this site as a place for like minds to vent and educate each other…but little else. Nothing wrong with that, but let’s not kid anyone about being a countervailing force to any established order.
I don’t know what postulations you’re referring to. This is a meta piece. About Netroots Nation. And the people that populate the blogs.
If you scroll down, you’ll see that I directly endorse your class war comment. I don’t have all the answers, nor do I claim to, nor am I involved with the NPA. I’m vaguely sympathetic, I suppose, and I have talked to Tony about it, and thought about it, but I’m at my core uneasy with their theory of change. He did send me some bumper stickers though.
You and I agree on more than it appears you think.
Bravo.
The change you seek, is as I seek.
N NOTHING in the present system allows for our kind of change to take place.
So.
Either there’s massive revolt from we the people . . .
Or.
The system as is collapses of its own volition.
Loved yer comment, thanks.
totally with ya on the jobs. Love the communities that have coops that are run by people. How to foster these things? State or Federal matching dollars don’t exist in the main and so won’t help right now, so how do we move this fwd? I’m thinking education right now is a main focus but the press follows the news of things happening. I can’t report on an expansion of wind turbines, say, if it ain’t happening yet because of lack of funds. So education is tough withe nothing happenin…
A mantra of mine for the last 20 years has been
Garden, Sweat, Recycle, Bicycle
I’m gonna have to add ‘Drink Your Own Rainwater’ in there pretty soon. Maybe we could educate each other on these basics?
Remember, NASCAR has about run it’s course but is still wildly popular with just the people we want to reach.
one_outer, I’m riffing. You got me excited!
Do you think I should edit this? I can see how it can read that way.
What I mean is, I don’t mean that we’re an actual counterforce, like unions or another party, but the main outlet for challenging their BS in the discourse and challenging their BS when it comes to defining what constitutes activism. I didn’t intend my thesis to be any broader than that.
How?
It all happens when the masses in their pure and unadulterated frustration and need take what history proves to be actionable when people have no shelter, jobs, food for their family.
Easy answer.
*G*
Too small a core to appeal to if ya need to move mountains hoss.
Sorry, but that stuff won’t cut it.
You want mass appeal?
Start with jobs, so folks have homes and food for family.
Anything else is useless for the masses that are hurting, and if yer no appealing to THEM, yer likely dismissing them and are an elitist, n not my ally.
Harumph.
Agreed, sadly, but agreed.
I won’t begin to discuss the failures of NPA, who uses this site like a back alley . . . well, you know.
And I love this site, and I joined, too, without a job.
Dawg help us all . . .
The Presidential election next year will be mostly irrelevant unless there is a major change in Congress. There can be no major change in Congress as long as the progressive movement is concentrated in predictably Democratic areas and folks outside of the few swing districts have even a phoney choice. It is going to take 70 million people to move this nation forward. I don’t see 70 million progressives, on blogs or off. I don’t see a comprehensive nationwide network of progressive with ties of one sort or another in all 3080 counties of the US. That is a structural defect that continues to come back to bite us. It makes progressives easy to marginalize as those folks on only a few cities or states–because in a large part of this country folks do not personally know a progressive. Whereas in most every part of this country folks know at least one conservative and a good proportion know a committed dittohead of FoxNews viewer.
We are invisible and marginalized because in huge sections of the South and “flyover country” we have made ourselves invisible out of fear.
The professional progressives — the commentators, strategists, media consultants, issue nonprofits, the “progressive” lobbyists — are heavily invested (their livelihood depends on it, a nice livelihood btw) in continually pushing a marketing and top-down strategy on progressives. Or worse push a field organization for Democratic candidates. If there were a strong grassroots progressive presence, there would be not need for a field organization. We would be setting the agenda. We would be picking the candidates. We would be deeply involved in long-term local networks of progressive advocates. And we would not be afraid to go to eastern Kentucky, West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, south Georgia, Utah, Idaho, Zell-Deal Georgia, Oklahmoma or east Texas to register to build a national progressive movement.
Electoral politics is about geography and getting the numbers within each piece of that geography.
We need 70 million voters to win. But to win, they cannot come from just California, New York, Illinois, and Michigan. Even inch of ground, every precinct, every county, every state is important. Change the political culture there and both parties will start scrambling in your direction.
You know why the 2012 election campaign will cost $2 billion, $4 billion, $6 billion before it’s all done? It takes that much money to buy the advertising to saturate 400,000 plus precincts day in and day out for six months, nine months, twelve months in order to make sure that the political culture at the grassroots does not change. It’s the same reason for the major investment in FoxNews, Rush Limbaugh, and the other conservative talkers and shock jocks. It’s the same reason for the professions of Ann Coulter and Andrew Breitbart. To make sure that people at the grassroots never think carefully about their future or the political choices they face. All the DC professional progressives and professional Democrats want to do is get in on that gravy train.
Enough with this top-down movement. It’s time for some wildcatters. A flash mob in Philadelphia MS to register voters. A wildcat strike at a Wal-Mart in Provo, Utah. A progressive exercise of Second Amendment rights in Phoenix AZ. Peaceful. Disciplined. Unflappable. Policing out agents provacateurs and movement hijackers. Many small organizing actions in Tea Party strongholds. It is time to be unpredictable.
Is there a county in the US that lacks at least one (even one hunkered down) progressive? It is time to stand up.
The professsionals and the politicians have made themselves irrelevant. It’s time to stand up and insist on liberty and justice for all. Our major task will be to render anything the political ads on the corporate media say to be irrelevant. Anything. Republican. Democrat. PACs. SuperPACs. We need to make sure that all of the big bucks being squandered on media buys this year is wasted. I don’t know how exactly we pull that off but that is the major transformation required in American politics. Killing the political marketing industry whose sole purpose is to prevent people power.
We focus on process first. And then deal with all of the issues, all of the geography, and all of the people at the same time. And the cornerstone linkage: the tyranny of economic value over all other values. And we take back the narrative, drama, and symbols of American political tradition. It is our flag. Our House. Our claim of liberty — and justice. And we can rightly claim the “Don’t Tread on Me” flag as well. And all the symbols of the labor movement and the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. It was our end to child labor. Our winning of the forty-hour week and mandatory overtime. Those are symbols too. And part of the narrative. And provide elements, like songs, in the drama.
Uh, my comment was to:
tongorad June 20th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Again, well spoken.
Aside from my postulate that a ‘jobs first’ movement will save the day, there is nothing I don’t agree with in yer comment.
‘N I consider it all to be common knowledge among us proggies.
So, what’s yer thots to enact or enable this change?
well, I think the forces of big money has been stealing everybody’s livelihood … for generations now. They just have got their buddies to make it all nice and legal for them to do that and we are told if we want to succeed we have to play the game *their* way.
And when we complain, they’ll just steal all our livelihoods in one fell swoop. And not give anybody any fereakin jobs.
So, how to steal a job, is what you’re proposing? ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1Nm4dj_x4
That’s the way it used to be. Not any more
Too many examples of Rebecca Black’s Friday appearing out of nowhere to dominate not just the youth culture, but everyone’s culture worldwide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZYeUX-gb7Y
Yep… that’s Rebecca Black in Russian.
Learn from this. We need to find out how to launch culture to get around all the geography and all the talking points.
How to get to a jobs first movement? Is that your question?
In the Great Depression, what started the avalanche was the Bonus Army. That won’t work now because DC is in as much security lockdown for protests as Damascus.
In the civil rights movement, it was the Freedom Rides and the firehoses in Birmingham that started the avalanche.
In Vietnam, it was the Tet Offensive that caused the avalanche that resulted in LBJ not running for re-election.
This is a crazy idea. But if progressives could match potential workers to needed work, a “we want jobs now” rally might could shake loose the operating capital or seed capital. More likely the answer would be No.
Geographically, the focus should start with Nevada, California, Rhode Island, Florida, and Michigan (the states with the highest unemployment rates). The next round would be Mississippi, South Carolina, DC, Georgia, and Kentucky.
And you would seek to either get some job relief going or make it clear that the private sector was either unable or unwilling to do what was needed to restore jobs. You have demonstrated the demand (the psychology/sociology part of the demand) and the availability of productive resources. And you have demonstrated that the cash to provide the cash part of the demand could be available if lenders chose to make it available. And you have documented what about the situation is frozen. (The banks won’t lend the money until consumers demonstrate that they will pay back the money through the production of the enterprise. But the consumers can do that until the production of the enterprise creates the payroll that can circulate through the community and result in the purchasing of that production.) Ignoring this is the basis of the fantasy economics for both Democrats and Republicans.
Putting together a strategy for some test cases and then a way to open source the tactics and report the actions through social media.
Needed work can be green jobs, day care, school staffing, rural transportation–you know the drill.
You don’t argue the issue. You don’t message the issue. You show he issue graphically in action. Like Jackie Robinson asking to be served at the restaurant of the Greenville SC airport on a trip to the local Dodger farm team. A graphic illustration in a localized area. You know what the Chamber of Commerce industrial development team heard the next time they talked to a New York based company.
Internetworked local campaigns instead of a national campaign. A structure and legal form that cannot be easily shut down legally or financially by big donors or big powers. Initially focused on the worst hit areas and taking in rural, suburban, and urban communities. A focus on what people can do if given the chance instead of what the government owes me because I’m a victim of circumstance. (This is a tactical concession, not an expression of principle.) Model legislation for each of the 50 states plus national legislation.
Maybe some breaking-the-mold kinds of agreements. Reduced working week. Flextime. Multiple practices that translate to dignity of work. Articles of incorporation limits on the “divine rights of managers”. Onsite child care (another source of jobs). Businesses services offered in a business incubator-style setting. It’s not each one paying to have someone else do the laundry, but there’s that sense of getting what little money is in the community moving again.
This has been a bit rambling. But those are my thoughts. Let’s see how news of “libruls” being driven out of deep red states for trying to get jobs for the folks in those states plays in the media. Of course, there is a lot of distrust of outsiders in a lot of communities with high unemployment. They don’t like being spotlighted as needing charity.
As I was working in my flower garden. I remembered telling my nice about 20 years ago that she needed to go to college. Her response was, that she would be in her 30s’ when she finish. I ask her how old would she be if she did not go to college? I come to realize we have time to created what we need. Time to be wrong . Time to right. Time to answered some of the universal questions. All we have to do is stop worry about our choices. We keep doing the same thing and expecting different result. Is that what they call insanity? We have to give the people with good ideas a chance. Give them you vote. Because a good ideas need nourish too. If you do not see any good ideas . Do not vote for bad ideas. Because bad ideas is like crabgrass, given a chance it will take over your whole garden Make them produce another menu. Make them ask the Question, “have you been served”. Sine we not going to get out of our life alive, and you are going to spend more time under the dirt than on top of the dirt, enjoy and stop worrying.
Progressive culture gets built from the grassroots outward. What causes something to go viral? It strikes some sort of a chord in a whole lot of people. Republicans, as we blog, are engaged in trying to create viral video and Twitter marketing factories. So is the White House. That is just old-time marketing in a new medium.
The major asset at the disposal of progressives is authentic identification with the grassroots. Isn’t it? Otherwise we deceive ourselves and we wind up just being one more source of marketing noise.
Round two: it occurred to me that one of those viral political culture items that was widely shared was events in Madison WI. “This is what democracy looks like.” “Our house. Our house. Our house.” The geographical spread of the social media coverage of this was fairly wide.
“Will we be co-opted by the likes of the consultant class or can we muster the courage to cast off the shackles of Democratic Party fealty and stand up for ourselves?”
I vote for choice B.
Primary Obama.
True, too true. And that critical mass coalescing into a movement needs to come not in the blogosphere but in the nation (blogs can help start it). I don’t know how this will happen – the only thing close to it has been the rallies and recalls in Wisconsin and to a lesser extent Ohio and other R run states.
Progressive populists generally do identify with people.
Progressive academics can be hit and miss.
YES…YES…YES
So my fellow progressives are not all cowards and hypocrites after all.
BRAVO!
The Democratic party… BETRAYED liberals, progressives and traditional Democrats. Any solution to this problem that involves a continued allegiance to this corrupt organization… is doomed to failure.
I am a progressive Ex-Democrat who re-registered as an Independent [not affiliated with any political party].
Registering as an Independent is the best political decision I have ever made.
Independent means free from political party brainwashing. I am now free to see the REALITY of politics… which is that both the Democrats and Republicans have been corrupted to the core by Wealthy Special Interests. The battle is no longer between R’s and D’s … it is between the American people and our entire corrupt government.
Just as important is the fact that I no longer support or validate a corrupt organization. Because I am no longer on the rolls of the party and no longer a member I have sent a message, LOUD AND CLEAR to the Democratic party that I am no longer interested and I will not support their “product”… corruption.
Americans can not continue to blindly follow these corrupt political parties. Americans need to stop being patsies and dupes for scoundrels. We can no longer march behind fake leaders who claim to represent us… when in fact they do not.
The time has come to stand up to corruption.
The problem with democracy and with political power split between executive, legislative, and judicial branches is that change tends to come slowly and you tend to need majorities. Thus, ‘evolution’ tends to work better than ‘revolution’, given our system’s restraints. This fact is what I believe many posters here just ‘don’t get’. Effective change is incremental change, not revolutionary change. Republicans actually get this, as they have achieved radical changes through multiple incremental steps over a thirty year period. To use an analogy, in our system, if you want to build a mansion you will fail if your approach is to demand a mansion be built: rather, you will first need to buy land, then get a permit for a starter house, then buy adjacent land, then add wings to the starter house, then renovate, and only then do you have your mansion. The reason I support his incrementalist approach is the best way to achieve progressive goals. Instead of complaining that he promised a mansion but ‘failed’ by only purchasing some land, our efforts would be better served by making plans to build the Progressive house foundations on that land, rather than by passive aggressively electing a republican who will promptly sell the land and give the proceeds to fund a fence that they can build around the conservative mansion which they are trying to build.
Flagged for spamming, and for misuse of capital letters.
Fantastic post, one_outer, recommended. As you know I cannot vote, but how I see the situation is that lesser-evilism voters are quite possibly being counted on for that vote (some would call this manipulation or being played). This is a sad and urgent situation with no easy answers. I think it will take creativity and massive numbers of people to overcome this mess peacefully somehow…but with our peaceful masses being broke and tired, well, I don’t know how.
You are an excellent writer BTW.:)
Excellent post. Your point about the commodification of the election process (just like the commodification of charity drives) is right on the post. Running elections is now a business, and has been for a long time. What was James Carvel if not a successful businessman? The result of all this is a fully self-referential political system, in which everything operates through the money that flows through the center in Washington. It’s not sustainable, but God knows what is going to happen when the roof falls in, as it surely will within ten years.
Thinking within the confines of the system is the problem. We need to be more creative, cuz it just ain’t working.
Exactly. What we can do on the blogs, right now, is influence the discourse. That’s our first step, but we need to have an expanded conversation to do it.
Education starts everything. Right now the vast majority of people don’t realize that there are alternative economic arrangements that can work better for them, not the rich. Showing them the way is 90% of the job, methinks.
I’m more optimistic…I think. We’re in a revolutionary epoch, where people are openly and widely questioning even the most basic foundations of society. Under those conditions, and all our stressors and problems, change can happen fast fast fast. In 1988 if you’d told the average Russian that by 1990 the USSR would no longer exist they’d have told you that you were nuts, unless they were a crank. But the cranks were right.
I really think the fall of the USSR is our closest historical parallel at this point. An exhausted and ideologically bankrupt system grinds to a halt and just can’t go on anymore because people just stop believing in it. They don’t see how it works anymore. That’s what’s happening here, to a degree, I think.
How exaclty is it elitist, Larue? We’re reaching out to all who have been burned by the elites.
Once again, as is becoming the sad norm with you, wild charges with nothing to support them.
Yeah, as I pointed out to him in the comment thread, his duplicitious fearmongering won’t work any better for him on his own site than it did for Jason Rosenbaum here…
Recommended.
Well argued, extremely perceptive, and wrong
in several key places, I think. It starts with the internet and mostly young, privileged people behind computer screens or with the time to interact/pose a cyberforce. These are NOT the people who are hurting, not the people who will pose a counterforce to the growing hegemony of very ugly. Your idea that the people at that conference compose some kind of vanguard. . . simply isn’t true.
“The countervailing force to the Democratic establishment is us.” It’s not, it’s people off of their asses and in the streets, talking to people who are losing their houses–standing in the doorway to stop people losing their houses, lying down in front of statehouses, and–get this–going to jail because they are Black. It’s all those poor white people whom the netroots DISDAIN, and make their disdain clear for every day.
I don’t give a crap about what Markos thought he was doing when he started out. He’s a former army officer and you-know-what candidate, light middleweight intellect and. . . tied to the mast of that Democratic ship. You watch–he and all of these people will be working for Obama, once again, down the road. Reform from within is the governing concept at DKos. (The fact that you flirt with it, now, only shows how much you have to catch up with reality. That reality starts with political economics, while 95% of people in those rooms own critique starts with the assumption that big capital. . . should be nicer or less greedy.) The Markoses of the world grumble, but they know what side the crumbs come from. They’ll be back to their polling–where the cart leads the horse 8 tries in 10–within the year.
The I-Apparatchik isn’t gonna solve the problem; the very assumption reeks of collective narcissism. When the (thrill of the) technology becomes so transparent that the “netroots” are absorbed back into some larger radical movement organization as ONE ASPECT of its outreach, then they will have traveled some real distance. Those kids in Greece are no longer geeked on their iphones; they’re using them to find the next set of paving stones.
Yes, I hope you are right. I visited the USSR in 1929. Repression was palpable: people wore grey and black. There were long lines at Gum’s department store. Collective affect was flat and sad. People were afraid to speak out and for good reason- they had sort of a tendency to go ‘missing.’ My camera film was confiscated at least once. Tours were carefully guided and scripted. The black market was lively.
Still, in hushed rooms we listened to folks determined to change things, even given the risks. Without these brave, passionate and peaceful people nothing would have happened I don’t suppose. I hope we can follow these examples. Thank you for pointing this out. It is only a matter of time before we walk the streets in grey, wearing faces of downtrodden, tired citizens in survival mode, waiting in a long and silent line to get a pair of shoes. It can happen here.
oops, C-S here, sharing, the above comment was mine.
and on edit: 1979 and not 1929. C-S. wish we had edit.
Further proof we most fear what we least understand.
The NPA is building a lasting organization dedicated to the principles Larue so offhandedly tosses about, with Full Employment as our #1 platform issue. The issues were chosen and voted on by readers here, the NPA is a member here, and it remains a regular participant here.
Numerous invitations to Larue to point to specific “failings” of the NPA – a growing, 100-percent volunteer, non-profit organization – have gone without RSVP. We extend the invitation yet again.
Why anyone still bothers with this system is baffling to me. After 2008, if anything, showed you that capitalism is a malignant tumor that must be ripped out of the body politic. I know I sound like a broken record but really people need to find inspiration from the past, especially from the great socialist and anarchist thinkers. Because most people are scared of delving into radical politics, these wonderful ideas are neglected.
For example, I get a lot of my inspiration from Malatesta, the great anarchist, who argued almost a hundred years ago that liberal, representative democracy is simply oligarchy, not democracy. I didn’t come to these thinkers overnight, mainly because their ideas are suppressed and outright ignored. Our hope is in non-hierarchical democracy and decentralization. There is no blueprint for how to get there–but that’s good. Dogmatic ideology leads to mass murder. Look at capitalism. It is beyond criticism because it is considered the best way to order human society. This is absolute bunk. Our era is exemplified not so much by corruption (though, of course, that’s a problem)–but an unwillingness to try new things, to experiment!
Now, I’ve been called crazy by some FD people for suggesting we experiment because I am “playing with people’s lives.” The point is not to force ideas but to suggest pragmatic solutions. We know that capitalism is unsustainable. The earth is telling us so! Decentralization will happen whether we like it or not. Hierarchy is disorder. Look at our world today. It’s time we consider new ideas.
Yes.
“When the (thrill of the) technology becomes so transparent that the “netroots” are absorbed back into some larger radical movement organization as ONE ASPECT of its outreach, then they will have traveled some real distance. “
I have much more faith that the Netroots types will come to the realization that you describe than that the right’s base will ever understand that their leaders are actually abusing them.
In such a chaotic situation, who ever comes to their senses first has an advantage.
I’m not sure what to think of this. I can’t blame you for not being familiar with my work, or my views. Just…one at a time.
They don’t compose some kind of vanguard, and I’m not really making such a big claim – but they can, if they so choose. It has to start somewhere, and I see the internet, with the possibility to communicate and create media free of corporate influence, as the best place to start.
In messaging, in media, in the public discourse and exchange of ideas, the blogs ARE the main countervailing force to the establishment message machine. Here there are no corporate gatekeepers – a necessary precondition.
Those folks you talk about also show up on the blogs as well as in statehouses and other direct actions. Hell, tonight I’m going to a USUncut planning session for a Minnesota Capitol occupation should our state government shut down. We don’t have to choose between one or the other.
I agree with you about a lot of blog types looking down on plain folks.
You’re likely right about Markos and dKos. What can I say? I’m trying to make things different the way I can. And yesterday that was to write up my thoughts on NN11. Today it’s organizing. Keep on trucking.
Fair point, but not where I’m coming from. Of course we aren’t going to solve the problem. This is a meta piece, specifically about the blogging community, what we can do, and the options we have on the table. We can’t do it all, and I’m not suggesting such a narcissistic take on the whole thing.
I’d be thrilled if the internet was just one aspect of a real left movement. We’re not going to get there, however, until we look at each other and realize we don’t need gatekeepers. Which is my main thesis here – the choice between subservience, or just figuring out what we should do internally without giving a rats ass what the Failure Faction in the Democratic Party thinks or wants.
We should be more Greek, more French, for sure.
One last thing – in history, revolutionary change movements usually start among bourgeoisie youth, at least movements of the ideological variety. They’re the ones with the education, means and inclination (read: sense of entitlement to better) to get the ball rolling. Lenin was the son of a professor. Guevera was a doctor – not exactly a proletarian hero. Robespierre came from a well bred family – his father and grandfather were lawyers and his mother was the the daughter of a wealthy brewer. Just a few examples.
However, those movements never stay with bourgeoisie youth if they’re successful. This is a start, the best start I know how to make. Sorry I came up short in your eyes.
And all incumbent House Democrats, and , with even minimalist candidates, ala the now moribund Full Court Press.
I wrote recently about a Full Court Press in 2012, with an NPA twist, in NPA could profit from a Full Court Press shotgun approach in 2012 – True or False?
I don’t know. How long have political blogs been around? Have they ever achieved anything? Look, I like posting here–but it’s just a place to rant. And these manufactured conferences, with all the merchandising, branding and such, are so fake to me. They mimic the corporate model. They are also highly structured, so no there’s no chance of spontaneity. Seems to me in the old days people were louder, rowdier and real-er when they met together at political gatherings. People are way too polite now. There is something missing! Passion! People had it in the 60s. It’s all so antiseptic and predictable now.
Sometimes I think Laure gets drunk and then blogs. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
OK Folks- Oh and Hey Anthony
I was there at Netroots Nation. I concure with Anthony about what happened there.
ALL of the SPEAKERS were Dem/Obama apologists (even Russ Feingold and Van Jones, what the hell) However, as I walked thru the crowd and passed out NPA bumper stickers and talked about NPA, the reaction I got from people on the ground was very supportive. Comments like “thank God, it’s about time” etc etc etc.
There is something brewing out there folks. It is very real.
It is so real that I just received a message from Move.org stating that “We can’t wait on Obama or the Democrats” and it is time to build a movement.
Moveon.org for Gods sake.. One of the very worst Obama/Dem apologist groups out there.
As an aside, I have also beenn peppering the “progressive” blogs that have not banned me with discussion about NPA.
I have ben banned from Common Dreams, TruthOut, Op Ed News. Daily KOS and Huff Post I do not even bother with. As an aside, I met others who had been banned from posting comments at these “progressive” blogs.
I even got on Big Eddie Schultz radio show on Air America. I called him a fraud after putting my prog creds out there. He would allow right wing nuts 5 minutes to argue.
Me, I got 5 seconds and his stand in guy hung up on me.. It was heard on National Air America. Wish I had have known about NPA at that time.
For every person willing to put in the effort to work on the fix, there are a thousand people willing to spend their whole life standing around saying;
“This aint ever gonna work.”
Cool thing about FDL is that they are pretty accepting of left wingers–and even radicals. They never have banned me for my political beliefs and they are way more left than most posters here. We need all parts of the Left to come together…liberals, socialists, anarchists. I think we have more in common than we think, though we may disagree on ideology. In fact, we have a lot in common with aspects of the right–like the intrusiveness of the National Security State. If only we could ban together.
But what is the fix? And where is the movement? I think cyberspace is a detriment in a way to forming a movement. Stick to one thing. Okay, we want the banks to pay for their crimes and we want jobs. Imagine mobilizing millions of people to demand justice for those two things. Nothing else. Jobs and bankster justice. Day in and day out demonstrations. The Netroot Nation thing is so vague–and it excludes real Americans you know who actually work real jobs and shit.
Blogs aren’t supposed to achieve anything except push the conversation. It’s media, it’s what we do. Beyond that…
I would disagree that the blogs never accomplished anything. We made Howard Dean “Howard Dean”. We put Obama over the top for the nomination. Jane is out there on MSNBC all the time reaching lots of people that don’t read us. Unfortunately, most of the things the blogs have accomplished have been electoral in nature – that’s what I’m trying to change. It’s not useless, but it’s not an end all be all. It’s just a medium.
Ain’t that the truth. The fatalism is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Why does the money system work? Because we all decide that money has value. That’s it. An example.
Agreed. That’s all the goal.
That’s why I love FDL, too. I can be kinda out there with my politics but still have a voice in a community that is more than a tiny echo chamber. At least, I think it’s more than a tiny echo chamber.
I’m not trying to be coy. Really. NetRoots is a vanity project. How will it help real people struggling with their mortgages, afraid of losing their homes and jobs. Can regular folks relate to these people at these conferences? The movements of the early 20th cent were also working class movements. Therein lies the problem. You can’t have a viable left without real working class people because ostensibly being on the Left means aligning yourself with working class interests. I don’t see that much in what counts for the US left today. It’s a vanity left, a kind of yuppie left–and I count myself in that bunch as well.
Blogs should only be a means of communication, not a replacement for real world activism, and essentially that’s what’s happened. No wonder Oily O and his minions love speaking to bloggers–they pose no threat!
Appreciate your thoughtful reply and. . . stand by my assertions (though I don’t mean in any way to personalize re: narcissism, or to criticize what you do). The real energy for change in the world right now comes from the rural sector–from Food Sovereignty movement, small farmers, and La Via Campesina, which with 100 million members is the biggest social movement in the world (not sexy enough, I guess, to be noticed here). I don’t think we need middle class kids anymore; poor people are ready to take the reins. The US will be the last place to change, but that’s okay.
To give one more example of how the “netroots” (as opposed to blonde roots) are quite out of touch: the military makes up half of our economy. Yet “progressives” get busy and genuflect every time “our soldiers” are mentioned. At this stage–as rural people are realizing–it’s all about creating the alternative, learning to produce rather than consume. I’m with vegan revo down below–you watch these videos and it just looks like a lot of comfortable, back-patting, rather. . . white and tidy gathering. (See the WSF for energy several decades on!)
Thanks for interacting.
Yeah, I figured is was crane and not mason :)
I actually hope I’m not right about the USSR parallel and that we can make progress before it all falls apart. The human cost in the fall of the USSR and the rise of their kleptocracy was and continues to be staggering. I’d like better for us, if possible.
Ah…I don’t know if I think that’s what’s happened. It appears that the blogs are a means of communication and it translates into lots of activism. It’s just shitty Democratic Party and/or Moveon activism.
Official NN is a lot of back patting. And it’s disgusting.
But it doesn’t have to be that way, and it isn’t that way among the normal convention goers. They were highly critical, in their conversations, in their questions of the representatives of officialdom. I love veganrevolution on these boards – we see eye to eye on most everything in my experience. His criticisms of the blogs and the people on them are pretty good.
BUT – I don’t want to write off the blogs, or NN, or any of that. These are reasonable people we can probably deal with, in the rank and file.
My pleasure to interact. The comments are 75% of the point to me.
heh… thanks for the clarification!! I didn’t think you were that age.
I, too, visited Moscow only very briefly in 1979 (perhaps that was me waving at you across Red Square??).
Flying to Moscow from Athens I sat with a young doctor from Soveit Georgia. Had great interesting conversations (bc the doctor spoke good English), but we were listened to the whole flight by some “babysitter,” who sat beside us, between us, in front of us and in back of us through the whole flight. When we had a stop-over in Sofia, the babysitter took the doctor somewhere and had a lengthy something-or-other with the dr. MUCH repression & spying on each other.
I, too, see the USSR as a parallel to what’s going on here in the USA. All too often I feel like Lee Atwater, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, et al, took notes on the Soviet play-book as they drooled with unbridled envy at the power of oppression (and money making) that the Soviet system had over its serfs.
As has often been commented, though, most Soviet citizens realized that all Soviet media was propoganda plain & simple. Sadly US citizens do not realize that most US media is propoganda and drink the Kool Aid without question.
And our own Oligarchs ran, not walked, to the former USSR as the Iron Curtain dropped… on order to rip off some rubles and make big CHA-CHING from that system.
I think the USA is too much like the former Soviet Union for my liking, and I don’t think that it’s an exaggeration to use it as a point of comparison.
I’m in agreement that Blogs on serve a specific type of communication function, but I would argue that blogs do pose a kind of “threat” (to use your terminology) to the politicians. If we were so insignificant, then why would O & his various mouthpieces make so many disparaging references to us?
Not saying that blogging is a be-all, end-all, but I do think that, by speaking out consistently and often, we have at least gotten some of our message across to some slice of the PTB. IF they simply didn’t care or found us utterly insignifcant, then they would ignore us. That they stand up to publically diss us shows that we are having some affect. I say: the more, the merrier.
Me too. Sigh.
I like to think I’m in the working class left. I work for a living, I don’t have shit, no wealth, no job security.
Then again, I also have the education and all that da da da.
Thanks, one_outer, for your usually well-written perspective. I value your insights/experiences at NN, as I wondered about it… I have long seen these as back-patting sessions, which you confirm to an extent. Yet NN does provide a forum for folks to gather and talk and look one another in the eyes. Just like blogging, itself, NN doesn’t provide a “solution” per se, but it provides a forum for exchanging info, as well as for organizing towards common goals.
Perhaps both blogging and forums like NN are better seen as “tools” rather than the ends to mean… or something like that.
Very insightful post with well-thought commentary afterwards. Kudos to all concerned bc we need to keep our discussions fresh and going.
I have no magic pill, but I have a learned a LOT here at FDL (and that’s after many years of various kinds of study AND activism of many types and community work and so on). We have to keep on keeping on, and partly, at least, be ready to step up and step into whatever “breach” presents itself.
Thanks to one and all for this great discussion. Keep up the good work, folks.
Hey, one_outer, I have skin in the game. I got caught in the bubble and my house is underwater. Guess you’d say I’m middle middle class–but even I’m scared shitless of losing everything. Now if I shitting bricks, imagine what those lower down the economic pole feel like. Obama has no fucking idea the level of anxiety out there–from all classes of people. I’m glad we are all on to his game, and I’m glad people are talking about solutions. In fact, Oily O has kinda provided a service to us all. We can see clearly how bad the system is. Peace.
Perhaps you missed something… it was called the American Revolution.
What we need is a revolution in how Americans vote. We simply cannot keep reelecting the same corrupt politicians over and over and over.
Sorry, not a fully paid-up netizen: what does NPA stand for?
Hey, I’m with you dude. I’m selling my car because I can’t afford it anymore. My temporary job is ending today, and while I think I’ll get another assignment from my agency soon I don’t know for sure. If I do get one it will require nights and weekends most likely. My parents got caught in the property bubble, too – in exurban San Antonio, losing 40% in value. My brother joined the Guard to make ends meet. I’m in it up to my ears.
I’m scared shitless, too. I have skin in the game, too. I don’t have a house, but I’m under water with my education (read: student loan payments don’t match up with earning potential).
Peace right back at you – except for the plutocrats. No peace for them. They shouldn’t even be able to sleep because of us. Solidarity.
New Progressive Alliance. Started on myFDL.
newprogs.org
One_Outer…
Question. What is taking so long? Why, after all thats happened, are progressives so afraid of actually doing something?
Our entire government is corrupt… what is it going to take? If we wait any longer… then the next election will be another waste. What is everyone waiting for?
IMO? Everyone is waiting until we have no choice. This isn’t a third world country where there’s never been broad based prosperity. We have that cultural and political memory, and it’s natural to pine for the long lost days of yore and think in terms of an “American restoration”.
This is America. In our mythology, it’s where you work hard and are rewarded with more. People don’t want to face how that’s grown to be untrue. People are in a state of shock, and they’re tired, and they’re just trying to get by.
It’s been so long since we had to fight for something that most of us don’t even know how, or where to begin.
It’s like Churchill said – Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing once they’ve exhausted every other possibility.
I don’t think the blogs should be seen as anything more than tools we use to get results in reality.
There is no magic pill. The future is asymmetrical, and we just haven’t figured out how to deal with a decentralized world yet. We’re the first generation to have to figure out that problem, how to make your mark in a chaotic world decentralized world. That’s where we’re heading, and we need to completely change the way we think about how we fit into it.
Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for your reply.
I agree. Americans have been “anesthetized” by design. A compliant population… is as much a threat to our nation as is a totally corrupt government. Sadly… we have both.
However I am optimistic. There are those of us willing to stand up for what we believe in.
First up… voters need to Stop voting for the same corrupt politicians over and over and over.
Congratulations on striking a resonant chord among progressives. Your post gets at a key debate that must be had among progressives. It looks like there may be a window of opportunity to have this debate too before the 2012 Election fully heats up and people become total robots for the Obama re-election campaign (however, some like OFA volunteers are already working as cogs in the machine).
This post reminds me of a post I put it up in April 2009 that was titled, “Give Obama a Chance to Do What?” The post became one of the most commented articles on OpEdNews.com that year and went all over because what I was challenging was this idea coming from progressives that we needed to be patient and self-censor ourselves and lower our expectations for change from the Obama Administration.
What is key about your post, one_outer, is how you force people to consider whether progressives will finally admit how constrained progressives are by the Democratic Party. All one has to do is watch lackey White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer being properly badgered to see how the Obama Administration is consciously undermining and ignoring the vision for social justice, liberty and equality in society, which many of progressives are constantly working toward.
Unfortunately, despite many in the audience booing and appreciating the grilling of Pfeiffer, liberal bloggers are expressing discomfort with how Pfeiffer was pressed. Their opinion may be genuine but they should understand reluctance to question people like Pfeiffer because it makes them “uncomfortable” or it feels “awkward” feeds into the Democratic Party and Obama Administration spineless and, ultimately, their servitude to corporations.
I think Keith Ellison, Van Jones, Howard Dean, Sen. Al Franken and former Sen. Russ Feingold’s speeches combined together were designed to compel the “netroots” to be the change they’ve been waiting for and not wait for the president. But, the problem is most who organize operate with the idea that they cannot get away from engaging in electoral battles to advance change. They do not see elections as madness and put more value in organizing in between elections.
With that note, it is doubtful whether progressives will jump ship. I hear the threats of refusing to canvas and make donations. I hear people saying there will be less phone calls. But, I wonder what will happen when the GOP is able to put the fear in progressives that Obama will be a one-term president. When they find their strategy or when the media turns their candidate into a darling of the media, will they still hold to their principles?
I think they will be out canvassing and “investing” as much money as they can in Obama’s re-election. Just like most haven’t the guts to put the fear in the Democratic Party and quit voting the lesser of two evils, they also will be afraid of what will happen if they don’t shut up and serve the campaigns out working to make “Hope and Change” 2.0 a reality.
TarheeDem
Good points.
You have the right word… FEAR.
Fear is being used by both partys to manipulate voters. Fear is to a large degree the motive for Democrats and Republicans to reeelect the same corrupt politicians over and over. And what has that fear accomplished… a totally corrupt government.
I re-registered as and Independent [not affiliated with any political party]. I dont have the fear. I will not vote the convoluted lesser of two evils scam. I will stand up to the corruption of both partys. My loyalty is to the American people… not a corrupt political party.
You are right on – as you usually are, Kevin – and this is why the NPA is “using” the election cycle purely as an organizing tool. We don’t expect to win against Obillion in 2012 any more than fly, but we’re fine with that because what is defined as “winning” in the current scheme of things only means selling out.
Call us purists, loyalty oathers, whatever – but the resistance the NPA is beginning to attract from erstwhile “progressives” like Moronic Mike Hersh over at PDA is a key element of the discussion that you allude to the necessity of having. That discussion revolves around these basic questions:
1) Will Americans – who in poll after poll support, by sizable majorities, social democratic policies which have been the hallmark of Progressive reform for over 100 years – will those Americans tolerate liberals slapping the word “progressive” on the same sorry asses (uh, donkeys?) who have refused to stand up for working men and women in any meaningful way for fifty years?
- Or -
2) Will those who actually understand what Progressivism means unify in preventing these flaccid liberal poseurs (Weiners?) from from hiding behind what should be a hallowed term, and strongly rebuke their attempts to co-opt the protections of common people that term conveys?
The NPA is placing a long-term bet that the answer to Question One is no, and that to Question Two, yes.
Like Canada’s NDP did 50 years ago, we MUST begin building – now – a unified resistance to gutless elites who are either too stupid, or too enamored of their well-paid, meaningless seats at the tables of power, to look themselves in the mirror and ask “Just what the hell am I doing to my fellow citizens?”
newprogs.org
Thanks for dropping in, Kevin. One of my big regrets from NN11 is seeing you around a couple times but not making it over to say hi. I like your stuff. I recognized you a table over from me at the Van Jones speech and I wasn’t able to catch you before you took off from that, and then we were in a panel together and I didn’t catch you then either. Did you go to the LBGT one? I think it was that. Anyhow, that sucked – I would have liked to meet you.
I agree with all this comment, and it gives me a thought about a way to express what I’m thinking. Those speakers at the conference you mention, Franken, Dean, et al, are like most progressives in that they think in terms of “how do you elect people that share your values and will make the right calls?” This is clearly a failure. I’m trying to get us to think more in terms of “how can we make it so that the elected officials don’t have a choice but to bend to our will? How do we get there?”
Stop voting for them.
There is only one way, electorally speaking: By refusing your vote to anyone who won’t publicly endorse a clear statement of that will.
The catchphrase in the NDP’s success is Canada has been: “Vote for the country you want.” For far too long, we’ve been basing our votes on the increasingly hollow words of popular personalities. Neither ego nor the stoking (stroking?) of same will get us where you seek to go, one_outer. ONLY accountability, vigorously applied at the outset of a politician’s career, throughout his or her public service, and in retrospect after that service ends, will allow us to elect truly committed people and affect real change.
(Until, that is, we can reform the system to one in which all Americans are subject to serve for two years and chosen at random, a la jury duty.)
Chris Hedges has another opinion. Americans are lazy, and content to talk about TV, movies, their cars… anything that doesn’t require critical thinking and rigorous analysis.
Agree. There are *always* other choices, even if it means simply NOT voting. Often, though, there are good worthwhile third party candidates, and I have never ever seen voting third party as “throwing my vote away.” That is bogus, and more citizens really need to “get” that.
Check out all options. We can count way beyond just 2 (parties).
I took in several of the forums and listened to most of the keynotes at NN11.
There was definitely an attempt being made to suck people into supporting Obama and the Democrats in 2012 under the guise of a false “progressivism” with many going so far as to suggest that “Obama is progressive like us.”
There were others— many others— thoroughly fed up with Obama and the Democrats.
A big part of the problem is that the terms “liberal,” “progressive” and “left” have not been well defined according to how issues get framed and an advocacy of specific solutions to problems.
I found the NN11 to be kind of a “test” on the “text book” written by George Lakoff, “Don’t Think of an Elephant!”
For NN11 “framing the issues” was key and there were no specific solutions presented in response to any problems.
There really was no way for those looking to combine grassroots and rank-and-file activism with real movements in the communities and where people worl although there was an intent to give the perception this was not the case as demonstrated by a woman who was fired for trying to organize given a chance to speak yet no specific suggestions for solidarity were provided; there was an unsuccessful attempt to link NN11 with a jobs rally initiated by the Laborer’s International Union of North America (LIUNA) that was very poorly attended by NN11 participants even though LIUNA spent thousands of dollars pitching their rally centered on getting NN11 participation that never materialized; and then there was a very controlled and staged “Speak Out for Jobs” intended to create a progressive image for members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus who, for the most part aren’t even liberal let alone progressive.
The tell-tale sign of how NN11 was controlled and manipulated pretty much like any Democratic Party function was the refusal to explain how these dirty wars figure in with all of our other problems. Of course there was no mention that these dirty wars are Obama’s wars and the only organized attempt made to explain the connection between these wars and unemployment came from a group of peace activists who held a very good demonstration which clearly demonstrated how bloggers need to engage in struggle, not beyond, but through use of their key-boards.
The “speak out” and the LIUNA projects had great potential had they not been intentionally manipulated and controlled to fit into the required and accepted parameters demanded by the Democratic Party which turned good initiatives into mostly failures when compared to what they could have accomplished which we should study and learn from.
Even the intent to try to link NN11 with the ongoing struggles in Wisconsin pretty much failed for the same reason.
Obviously the Democrats have a good grasp of how people are thinking in terms of a desire on the part of people seeking freedom from the Democratic Party. All levers were pulled at NN11 to make sure participants from around the country didn’t undertake such a discussion— even on personal levels.
We frequently heard from panel facilitators things like, “Even though the “Affordable Health Act is not what we would like it to be we don’t want someone like Rick Perry administering it.” The obvious implication was that we need to “stick with Obama.”
On the positive side of all of the implied support for Obama (it seldom came out being explicit and direct although the implication for support for Obama was ALWAYS present throughout NN11) at least half of the participants either were for a real progressive Primary challenge to Obama with fewer NN11 participants giving a lot of very thoughtful consideration to the need for finding an alternative to the Democratic Party but with few of these people really having thought about what kind of third party initiative is required.
My opinion of the NN11 is that it was a very mixed bag just like the Democratic Party itself in just about every single way.
There were some good initiatives from participants involved in a variety of struggle from union organizing, to peace, social and economic justice with very little in the way of anti-racist activity from this majority white conference. I never heard one single mention of “affirmative action” except when I brought it up at a few of the panels.
Like most of the speakers and those on the panels, most of the participants in NN11 were not liberal, progressive or left even though on many occasions it was declared that NN11 was the “professional left” and “progressive.” To have been considered either there would have had to have been some kind of concrete platform taking up specific and concrete solutions to problems with a focus on ending the wars and this did not exist.
Obviously at this point the majority of the participants in NN11 have no intent pushing politicians to bend towards justice which requires real solutions to working class problems and the need to end the wars. The focus of most of these NN11 participants will be treating politics as if they are watching a baseball game on television as they sit on their plush sofas eating their cheetoes and cheering on fake progressive politicians as the tabulate and then convey the score on their blogs.
Real liberals, progressives and leftists have yet to bring forward a program for real change intended to present solutions to real problems we can all blog about while participating in the struggles in the streets.
Thanks!
Just looked at it–”the world that FDR and LBJ began building”? You don’t have to read far or long to know that neither of those guys were up to much–FDR I have respect for, but my parents marched in the streets calling LBJ a baby-killer, and they were right.
There is also a similar effort–perhaps a little more high-powered, for better or worse, with the likes of Chomsky on board–over at Znet.
Thanks for the interesting write up. I gather there was no mention of such concrete steps as say, organizing the poor?
The right and their neoliberal buddies have a very simple narrative and a bottomless pile of cash to feed a relentless propaganda apparatus.
How depressing that the so-called left cannot even begin to differentiate themselves even at level of narrative. From your comments, it seems like they are running away from any of class-based politics. I guess that’s their function, right?
@ Anthony Noel
Hedges is right, but I’m going one step further. Deep down inside I think people know that when they apply their critical reasoning skills they will not like what they find. I don’t think most are even conscious of this, or of the fact that they wallow in frivolous distraction activities.
Everything in our society is modeled after the idea that there’s always the option of having somebody else do it. When such conditions exist, pacification is probably inevitable until relative comfort is seriously disrupted.
That’s what I mean by “when they have no choice”.
There you go. Making sense again.
“Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing. After they’ve tried everything else.”
–Winston Churchill
Don’t mean to nitpick, but that’s the quote. And it’s a good one.
Thank you for all of your time and effort to bring us the news of NN, OO. I, for one, really appreciate it.
Right now, besides taking to the streets(which won’t happen, as you pointed out, until way more Americans really have nothing left to lose)I think the best progressives can do for 2012 is to shun lesser-evilism and avoid voting for corporatist Democrats. I personally think we all SHOULD vote, where possible, for third party candidates with whom we actually agree most of the time.
Drive up the “other” vote to about 10% nationally, and that will actually get even M$M attention. And if that happens, that will get more attention, and maybe even motivate, a few million more Americans. Ideologically, we have the numbers. We just don’t have the organization, name-recognition(or even an agreed-upon name) or the appearance of a real choice that might really make a positive difference in most Americans’ lives.
I think that’s one big reason voter turnout is so low.
My privilege. I was lucky enough to be able to go.
Great comment, thanks for clarifying the true nature of NN11, it is as I expected it to be.
So called leftist elitists spouting the glory of status quo, what the hell, they got theirs or they couldn’t afford to BE there.
Sigh, nesting . . . my reply was to Alan Maki. Great comment.
Wow, Tarheel Dem, great reply and lengthy, too.
Lots to think on.
But as strong of a stranglehold this system has on us all now, income and employment should be the key focus for citizen ‘feed’back’ . . . and I just don’t see it happening.
The bad guys have the rest of us masses pretty well unorganized.
Thanks again for all yer thots.
One_outer, thank you so much for writing this. I couldn’t agree more. Just reading it made me feel less crazy. I am a long-time Democratic activist who lives in Minneapolis. I’ve attended almost all of the previous Netroots Nations, but somehow I didn’t have the stomach to go to this year’s even though it was in my home town—and it was for exactly the reasons you wrote about.
Thanks again.
As Midwest Meg said, reading this post made me feel less crazy about my discontent.
For every subgroup that feels shut out, such as progressive bloggers feeling shut out of the Democratic establishment, there’s a sub-sub group that feels shut out from the group that feels shut out. This sub-sub group is the digitally excluded, those who can’t afford Internet service or smart phones or any of the toys that so many of us take for granted. It’s this group, I believe, that has the greatest potential to enact change. Instead of them crossing over to the Tea Party, they could become a Democratic version of the Tea Party.
The question is, how do we reach them?
Perhaps if everyone printed out one_outer’s post and shared it with 10 people who don’t have internet service, it would be a start.
Matthew Detroit, June 21, says “It starts with the internet and mostly young, privileged people behind computer screens or with the time to interact/pose a cyberforce. These are NOT the people who are hurting, not the people who will pose a counterforce to the growing hegemony of very ugly. . . it’s people off of their asses and in the streets, talking to people who are losing their houses–standing in the doorway to stop people losing their houses, lying down in front of statehouses, and–get this–going to jail because they are Black. It’s all those poor white people whom the netroots DISDAIN, and make their disdain clear for every day.”
You are making an elementary and fundamental mistake of logic with these statements, the mistake of thinking that because the only experience you have of the people posting at FDL is – their posts at FDL, that they have no life, no existence beyond here. Stop and think about it for a minute. How can you possibly know enough to make the above statements about them? As it happens, over a several year period of reading the blogs here, I’ve noticed that many posters are political activists of a number of types, many have demonstrated in the streets, some are lawyers, environmental activists or have other expertise that has been shown to be useful in carrying out progressive actions. And any number of FDLers ARE hurting, have lost jobs (being unemployed giving them time to blog), have no healthcare, have loved ones in trouble, etc. etc. (I’m only a couple of steps away from destitution.) When you and veganrevolution jump to the conclusion that One Outer and the others “have no skin in the game” you show yourselves to be of distinctly limited outlook and imagination.
“The I-Apparatchik isn’t gonna solve the problem; the very assumption reeks of collective narcissism. When the (thrill of the) technology becomes so transparent that the “netroots” are absorbed back into some larger radical movement organization as ONE ASPECT of its outreach, then they will have traveled some real distance. Those kids in Greece are no longer geeked on their iphones; they’re using them to find the next set of paving stones.”
But this was what One Outer’s post was all about, that the people running this NN thing are people bought and paid for by the system, in other words, apparatchiks, while any real excitement or useful discussion was happening in the halls. As for those kids in Greece (and they’re not all kids by a long shot), I’m sure their iphones continue to be of use. Paving stones only get you so far. (Apparently in Egypt many of those who thronged Tahrir are now engaged in a whirlwind of meetings, networking and self-educating on the skills needed for self-governance. )
“The real energy for change in the world right now comes from the rural sector–from Food Sovereignty movement, small farmers, and La Via Campesina, which with 100 million members is the biggest social movement in the world (not sexy enough, I guess, to be noticed here). I don’t think we need middle class kids anymore; poor people are ready to take the reins.”
With the efforts at large scale land grabs by global corporations seeking ways of “greening” themselves without having to make fundamental changes that would really make a difference, peasant movements will be mowed down like hay unless governments worldwide are freed from corporate domination. Peasants cannot accomplish this alone. The pro-democracy movements such as those in Latin America (Venezuela, Bolivia) could lead to governments that push back against the IMF. But the IMF, etc. will continue to be powerful unless the US turns a corner and ceases to be a corporate tool. One Outer’s discussion was about one of the many steps necessary to attain that goal.
One Outer has the patience of Job. I don’t. If blogging is so passive, jejune and timewasting, why are you here? The whole thrust of your comments is divisive and unhelpful, a chest-beating “I’m the Real Deal you wimps” rant. Your posting is clearly motivated, not by the sort of soul searching and self questioning One Outer displays, but by anger, juvenile aggression and the pleasures of one upmanship. What One Outer is doing is ten times harder than anything you’ve mentioned. Our present predicament is dire. We cannot afford to waste time and energy playing games. If that’s what you insist on doing, perhaps you’d better move along.