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Funny
It seems the other blogs refer to anyone challenging obama as a “firebagger”
I happen to love the term personally, sort of like “yankee” was supposed to be a pejorative when first used, (I think by the british) and the yanks loved the term so they took it up
So now, if you challenge obama you are called ” a firebagger”
I made the following point on one of my favorite blogs, “they gave us a republic (http://www.theygaveusarepublic.com/);
we’ve been ahead of obama since even before he was elected, most of us noted he was not the man campaigning…we hoped he would change and be more progressive then his record, we held our breath
People like ecahnomics and Jane herself were talking about Obama being a corporatist, others as well.
From endorsing telecom immunity even before he knew what crimes were committed, who committed them, who crimes were committed against, what was taken or even what damage might have been done to our national security
To forcing the dems into voting for bush’s redistribution of middle class assets to the wealthy, marketed as “tarp”, giving money and jobs to the very people that caused the problem, we had great pause
then when in office continuing the bush/cheney torture programs, and even defending those willingly breaking our law, and giving blanket cover to the criminals who brought this country to it’s knees, that’s when most of us started actively calling him out
and he has continued every step of the way, he gave away drug competition, he gave away the public option BEFORE negotiations for health care even began, and he INTENDED on giving away OUR investments into the social net, investments that have paid dividends, taking those assets and actually giving them to the wealthy, he WANTED to gut social security even before he took office
there is no way, just NO way a republican elected as a republican could deconstruct our economy t, or legacy, or our middle class the way this republican elected as a democrat
the man dressed in blue is red
Do NOT campaign for the wolf unless you are prone to voting against yourself, against your kids and your grand kids
I GUARANTEE more damage will be done with a red man dressed in blue then a red man dressed in red
if the wolf comes in looking like a wolf there is FAR less damage then if the wolf comes in looking like a sheep
it’s time
it’s time
we MUST campaign against obama, we MUST even if it means getting a wolf in charge dressed like a wolf
we NEED to primary obama and if that does not work we NEED to campaign against him
sorry but it’s time progressives started looking out for our kids instead of our ego
we used to laugh and laugh about how the republicans had “cognitive dissonance”
now the firebaggers are laughing and laughing at the progressives who have it
STOP rooting for the guy in your uniform when you KNOW he is playing for the other team
I do believe we ALL need to become firebaggers now if we are indeed going to “keep our republic”
let’s get rid of the dino
77 Comments
Obama should be defeated in 2012. Period. He should not be rewarded with another term.
It seems that “I’ll vote for him in 2012″ is the new loyalty oath on the so-called liberal/Democratic websites:
“I’m going to critize Obama (ever so gently), but he’s My President, and I’ll vote for him in 2012″
“If you don’t like Obama, then you’re a supporter of Michelle Bachmann”
“Republicans are so mean they made Obama do it”
“Obama can’t do what you want because we don’t have 99 Democrats in the Senate/11 on the Supreme Court/etc”
How about a couple of thousand people outside the Capital building with pitchforks and shot guns ?
New Progressive Alliance
or
September2011.org
See you all there September 6 2011
Been thinking that there needs to be a new term other than “progressive.” The brand has been discredited by the neoliberals, and even though it doesn’t mean what the Third Way idiots say it means, the constant appropriation of the term as cover for the neoliberal agenda (like the health care bill) has rendered it rather useless.
Jane
Disagree. How about true, real progressives.
Eddie Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Thom Hartmann and all the other “progressives” need to be called on this. Of course they are “allowed” onto MSNBC (Owned by weapons manufacturer and Nuclear Power generator GE)
Because what ever term we use will be used by them.
It is OUR TERM. Not theirs.
How about “human beings?”
not sure I agree with you on this one, Jane. It seems to me as long as our political enemies are allowed to define us (remember what Rush Limpballs and O’Lielly did to “liberal”)then it doesn’t matter what term we come up with, it will be corrupted. What’s truly dismal is that a so-called “Progressive” with a “D” behind his name, currently sitting in the Oval Office, is the SOB doing the redefining.
However, I could be wrong, and don’t mind offering up suggestions:
Real Dealers, New Deal Democrats, Real Democrats, Rationalists, The Reasonable, Middle Class, Working Poor, Wage Slaves, The HaveNots, the RestofUs, (What happened to) the American Dreamers? the Unheard.
I didn’t say the suggestions would be any good. =)
small note: OCTOBER 6, 2011.
see you there.
I wish it was “political enemies” who ill-defined the word “progressive.” However, it’s the neoliberals who have appropriated it as friends.
Left the party and will vote indie/green or anything but D or R.
I’ve been persuaded since FISA and his cabinet/staff appointments . . . for the most part. I came fully over after FISA sometime.
I’m in the choir, stage left of the sporano’s . . . ;-)
Oh, highly rcc’d, too . . . *G*
Lemme now when NPA has money, a candidate and is on my state’s ballot.
*yawn*
now this is interesting;
on my second favorite blog, (they gave us a republic) in my post they actually said there is a new rule there, “no obama bashing”
it is cognitive dissonance, they do not know what monster they are inviting into their home when they campaign for obama
We all just have to continue to refute their usage of it, point it out . . . and make sure WE brand them for what they are.
You don’t fight their assertions anymore, it’s proven that don’t work.
You steal their tactic and fight them by branding them and labeling them . . . over and over and over.
Right now, without billions of dollars and msm networks to back us up, our ONLY game is in the street and on the blogs.
Name them. Brand them. Label them.
Senior Killers. Baby killers. They stole my money! Won’t pay their taxes. Took my home! Denied me healthcare! Raised my insurance rates!
Label them. Brand them. Name them.
I trust you meant yer EX fav 2nd blog . . . ;-)
Name them. Brand them. Label them.
;-)
Where’s the blog income coming from?
*G*
True Hearts – Really Caring – No Corporate Lying
What’s truly importatant can not be determined by Wall Street.
I was wondering that myself larue, it’s the only sane explanation
Whoever said “with friends like these…” was spot on.
2008: Obama Lied
2018: Granny Died
feel free to use on a bumpersticker, coffee mug, t-shirt, pez dispenser, Larue.
How about New Hippies?
Seriously though, whatever we call ourselves will be vilified, so does it really matter? Instead of thinking up some clever new title, we need to reclaim the good ones that have been besmirched.
redefine the neo-libs. for example, neoliberal = corporate sellout. Moderate/Centrist = Billionaire Bootlicker
After Bushco, I was convinced that centrism was dead. After Obama, I fear it may be the middle class.
Why don’t we come all the way out of the closet and just call ourselves THE NEW LEFT?
*G*
Stand for OUR label, ridicule them, label them, name them.
*G*
Yer 5:58 comment is a great example, altho I’d argue we need to keep it all in present. Killing Granny works, now will kill Granny . . . ;-)
Name them, brand them, label them.
Simple tactic. Has to catch on with the middle of the roadies . . . point out D and R both are doing it.
Make it obvious, make it relevant to nonproggy’s.
It’s how the unions got THEIR MESSAGING across in the early 1900′s . . . one person at a time, one label, brand to call the rich bosses and their hired thugs for what they were and doing to people, AT THE TIME!
Gotta keep it current or recently in the past, the masses have little capacity for history or the future, the present is just too damned compelling and intrusive in their live in times like this.
Progs must reshape their messaging, it HAS to get nasty and personal and upfront in front of people.
Door to door, on the streets, at work . . . name them, label them . . . brand them with it all.
Simple.
Bingo. Stole yer jobs, put you on the street, made you eat catfood, denied you and family healthcare . . .
Call them what they are, always and everywhere. Never mind the policy issues, that’s for us who CARE about policy to deal with . . . for the masses, it’s the labels and the present pain they feel and why.
Where’s the appeal to the masses who aren’t the new left? We need them.
I’d argue, if we HAVE to change labels (I’d argue this is futile and a waste of time to discuss when we should be labeling, naming and branding THEM rather than worrying about OUR labels) . . .
I’d simple suggest: “We The People”.
But again I’m against wasting time, staff and money on OUR labeling, we need to attack THEM.
All out. That’s tihe ONLY thing that will appeal to the masses who aren’t proggy (yes we are a minority).
That and HELPING the masses with food, shelter, and healthcare any way we can . . . all the while using our naming, labeling and branding of the fuckers that did this to our masses.
If we don’t care for them, they will continue to hate us for our labels, as always . . .
Helping the masses, labeling the enemy.
N that’s why I think it’s foolish to consider a primary org development that’s a political effort, cuz the masses dont’ GIVE a shit about political organization, they want help and change.
Change that starts with the roof over their head, clothing, beds, food n jobs . . .
The rest is a general waste of time if ya wanna mass movement to FORCE CHANGE upon a closed system like the one we face.
You want change, start helping the down and out and recruiting them to a decent belief and values and SHELTER/FOOD/JOB based effort. Politics ain’t gonna get us shit.
Harumph.
N now, I must go to the gym . . . honey’s home today and we’re hittin it early, and long . . . best to all Pups.
Avant-garde (prolly too French sounding)
Dynamic
Enlightened
Vangard
…
Need edit
Vanguard
“on my second favorite blog, (they gave us a republic) in my post they actually said there is a new rule there, “no obama bashing”
You noticed that one did you? ;-)
As I said at the time… it’s kind of hard to express your anger at your government if you can’t talk about the people who ARE your government. It’s kind of hard to bitch about being sold out if you can only bitch about the buyer and not the seller.
Not sure what my blogging future consists of but If I can’t talk about ALL sides of the issue of who’s doing what to whom under which rosebush in whose back yard I’m not sure I like being left with nothing but “Republicans are bad”. Hell, everyone already knows that. The surprise… if anyone was indeed surprised is that the Democrats are no better and that’s what I want to talk about.
Tom B
Sorry, Larue; ‘We the people’ makes me cringe. ‘We’ are not ‘all people’, and too many use the Constitution for their own ungodly ends, IMO.
in reply to Larue at 6:37 – I agree wholeheartedly, we must label them, non-stop. It’s a worn-out cliche, but it surely applies: the best defense is a good offense. So let’s be truly offensive!
Labor Party…It’s hard to make labor a dirty word, and it already has a brand attached ( albeit from England ) that evokes some strong progressive ideals?
I’m voting green up and down the ticket where available again. Fun times.
Like Lanny Davis loudly proclaiming to Ed Schultz that he’s a progressive.
Like you perris, I am very fond of “firebagger”. I like to think of it as lobbing a flaming beanbag into the night to shed a little light amid all the darkness.
There have been several occasions when discussing politics with progressive friends that I have wanted to correct them and identify myself not so much as a progressive, but as a firebagger. For me, it is a more accurate descriptive term. Perhaps next time, I won’t catch myself and hold my tongue, I’ll just say it right out loud ; )
Jane, there are by my count only six episodes of genuine reform in American politics, lasting a total of somewhat less than 10% of the entire existence of the United States:
1. Jefferson (libertarian) as backlash to Adams’ overreach (minor)
2. Jackson (populist) as backlash to central banking (minor)
3. Lincoln on abolition of slavery
4. Progressive backlash against corporate power
5. New Deal (liberal/radicalresponse to financial crisis
6. New Frontier/Great Society () as backlash against stagnation of McCarthy Era
So, by historical precedent, you can choose “libertarian,” “populist,” “liberal,” “progressive,” or “radical” as labels for a reform movement. Anything else, and no one is likely to know what you are talking about.
The right has poisoned all these labels. The only way to make a label mean something positive is to do it by example. If someone everyone likes is a libertarian/populist/progressive/liberal/radical, any taint is removed from the label.
Let them try to redefine: “anti-corporatist” which is short for being against domination by the corporations and the greedy asshole rich.
To use the phrase coined by socialjustice.org:
“More Poverty – Your Tax Cuts at Work”
Yes, Margaret. Label them, name them . . . call ‘em what they are.
We do it or we die . . . simple.
“Who pays you Lanny? Who pays you?”
I’d add “you fucking fucking fuck” but that’s not what Mz Hamsher said . . .
I bet she was thinkin of sayin it, tho.
*G*
You comment thru my posits . . . I say, don’t bother with OUR labels, let’s attack THEM with labels.
Name them, brand them, label them.
You miss that Mz Wendy . . . so, if ya got a smidgen of retort left in yas, tell me what’s wrong with MY PR, MY marketing, MY strategy and tactic . .
Cuz so far, NO one is doing it, not NPA, not PDA, not no one proclaiming to be priggy.
Not no one.
Gal.
*G*
Thanks Past, appreciate that.
Seems simple to me . . . others will waste time on organizing and doing squat IMHO.
The PR/Marketing War is supreme . . . especially if yer the minority and lack money, access and ability to get the msm or the political monopoly to see yer POV.
THis is why I dismiss the NPA, PDA, or the mainstream politics and the political system . . . waste of time.
;-)
“No. I am a firebagger.”
*G*
Repeat . . . like the movie . . .
*G*
Defensive work hoss . . . fuggabotit them labels.
We go offensive and label them, name them, brand them.
Or we die.
It’s simple, don’t mess it up hoss . . .
Now is the time, always is the need.
We go on offense. All the time.
I dare all you Pups and FDL/MyFDL to do so.
I double dog dare all of yas.
Name them, label them, brand them.
*G*
“Been thinking there needs to be another term other than progressive”.
I agree.
Socialist Democrat works for me.
I said it up at Jane’s comment, I’ll repeat….
Socialist Democrat.
Socialist.
Socialist.
Socialist.
If you say it enough it starts to roll off your tongue and feel good.
How about the Working Majority?
How about the “76ers”. After the declaration of independence. The purpose of which was to protect each other from tyranny. In this case the tyranny of the two parties, corporatism, etc.. Its got a patriotic feel to it which will appeal broadly I think.
I kind of like the idea of using DFH as an acronym. It’s in your face, don’t care what you call me.
I think something having to do with middle class America would resonate more though.
How about Firebaggers?
President Bachmann or Romney will probably be much better than the man you call a liar.
The New White Panther party seems fitting…
+1
Oh a label I give to Obamabot types is….
Apologists for the pro-war, corporate corrupted Kabuki Theatre of the Absurd, pseudo democracy, two party system.
Grin
Now THAT just rolls off of your tongue
Agree absolutely. Worst possible scenario in 2012 would be for voters to say: Heckuva job, Barack. Keep up the good work.
I’ve been finding this an interesting and important conversation. Seems to me that the Left has neglected frames and framing, unlike the Right, which has been a smashing success at it.
On the case in point, I’m torn. But until a better candidate emerges, I still like ‘Progressive’. I’d just like to see the word wrestled away from the phonies. Sort of like the word ‘feminist’. Misogynists and the right wing (over-lapping but not identical groups) have promoted the notion that ‘feminist’ means something extremist and otherwise bad. I looked it up in the Columbia dictionary once and the definition was, One who believes in legal and social equality for women. (Not so bad.)
I guess I just don’t think we should let a-holes have our words and our language. Not without a fight.
I just call them the Church of Obama. It’s only a matter of time before they sell his used napkins on eBay as sacred souvenirs.
Quite happy myself to be labelled a ‘firebagger’ as that is a really distinctive honor. To me, we need to take the terms meant to be dishonorable as a recognition that we exist, and in some circles that recognition is worth its weight in gold. Folk will link onto the term and look us up, and then what we are is evident from the conversations we have here.
The clarity of the argument that there is only one party, the party of the corporates, began to show itself at the beginning of this century with the Supreme Court taking over the right of the people to elect their representatives. It has proceeded right up to the latest huge political decision to give corporations ‘free speech’ in terms of money. People are getting this, but there are very few forums ready and willing to debate the issue and its consequences. We do.
So, if they want to witchhunt for Sparticus, I’m a firebagger. That’s how you take the frame and run with it.
Thought we were voting for “Shaft”…
What we got however, was “Erkle”!
Just say no to “O’Erkle” in 2012!
Strongly agree with perris’s post. Except a primary is the wrong tactic, because that serves to LEGITIMIZE the democratic party as one in which we’re still interested in being a part of. Which is the wrong message to send.
The goal shouldn’t JUST be taking down Obama. The goal should also be to take down the two-party system, by legitimizing a competitive 3rd party.
As I said on G+ today, with the web, social networking, youtube, and small dollar fundraising, a 3rd party candidate can easily get him/herself into the presidential debates.
I predict such a candidate would forever alter American elections, by breaking the two party strangle-hold. If we can get that person 15-20% of the vote, all of this crap will change for the better.
We have almost nothing to lose, except the likelihood of a republican president. But we had Bush (worst asshole in US history) for 8 years, so I think we can deal with another 4.
We have almost nothing to lose, except the likelihood of a republican president. But we had Bush (worst asshole in US history) for 8 years, so I think we can deal with another 4.
obama is proving far worse then bush, we were able to run defense against bush’s depravity, we are not able to run defense against obama doing the very same thing
obama, believe it or not, is doing more damage then bush, there is just less complaining about it
Funny
It seems the other blogs refer to anyone challenging obama as a “firebagger”
Cool I prefer FireGod myself:)
we used to laugh and laugh about how the republicans had “cognitive dissonance”
now the firebaggers are laughing and laughing at the progressives who have it
Dem Civil War it is then Lefty’s vs Blue Dog’s they have Washington and the Press we have popular support on the issues and a reputation for truth and healthy open debate just not much access to power or the people.
But still we not Washington or their MSM puppets can rally the majority of voters we can bring out numbers to protests the Tea Baggers only dream of having.
We need to plan. We need a series of easy victories that Obama and the Dems can’t steal credit for like Wisconsin recall elections Obama refused to walk the picket line like he said he would.
But we will likely win despite him.
Obama’s team lost Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat I expect more Blue Dogs to lose this fall we hang those losses on Obama.
We make good on the threat anyone votes to cut SS or Medicare Won’t Get Our Votes!
that’s much nicer, I think I will use both!
obama is proving far worse then bush, we were able to run defense against bush’s depravity, we are not able to run defense against obama doing the very same thing
We have been a bit less willing to fight the Obamabots like we did Bush’s people but your right we are going to have to change that.
Someone at Late Late nite came up with that not me but it fits:) I don’t want to claim Credit on someone else’s idea.
Absolutely agree x2.
Bags of fire!
Fwiw, I’d be proud to be called a firebagger.
Lesson learned from the ‘queers’ — to take a label
intended to shame (or merely dismiss) and turn it into a badge of pride.
‘So yes, I’m a firebagger. And your point is?’
The first time I was called a firebagger was after a Democratic Party luncheon in Anchorage. It was right after I posted a youtube of Mike Gravel asking Mark Begich to look into the treatment of Bradley Manning. The person said it in a way that seemed like the word had venom in it to him. When I opened up into a broad grin, he backed off, turned around and walked away. Since then, I’ve been called a firebagger a lot, but mostly behind my back. I guess the word is out that I’m a proud firebagger.
(((ED*ARD!!!)))
keep voting republican and the middle class will disappear!!!!
{{{{{Perris!!}}}}}
Great topic – great diary, fellow firebagger. I’m getting ready to try to get other AK firebaggers crash the DFA training session in Anchorage in September. Hoping to get their advice on using their tried and true techniques when we groom a candidate to run against the big O in the Dem primaries.
VERY nice…do a diary on how that goes
I actually find people who use the word firebagger in a derogatory manner over and over and over again on Twitter, who can’t ignore Jane or leave Glenn Greenwald or Lt. Dan Choi, alone are some kind of club of people with deep mental disorders. They spend hours and hours and hours of time coming up with creative names for people, who are firebaggers. They have some sick affliction and have formed a clique and everyone in it has this sickness. They think anyone who has progressive or radical idealism is out to get Obama. They are like an online version of the children of the corn, hoping to smear and slay the reputation of anyone in the liberal blogosphere that doesn’t toe the line for Obama enough.
We should embrace it. But, we should also call out what this group is doing. They aren’t doing crowd-source reporting. They aren’t organizing for change. They aren’t doing anything constructive that actually helps us stop attacks on civil liberties or reverse this push to enact more and more austerity measures. They just say things like this, “OH MAH GAH! CAN WE PLEASE WAIT TO SEE WHAT THE MOTHERLOVIN’ DEAL IS BEFORE WE START POUTRAGE: THE RECKONING?” and “SHUT THE FUCK UP UNTIL OBAMA ACTUALLY SAYS WHAT THE FUCKING DEAL IS.”
But, I believe it this quote gives us a good indication of how toxic they are to any social movement that must be independent to actually achieve anything: