Dear Cardinal Mahony,
I saw your recent blog post entitled Judge Vaughn Walker Got it Wrong, in which you wrote:
[Walker's] decision fails to deal with the basic, underlying issue–rather he focused solely upon individual testimony on how Prop 8 affected them personally. Wrong focus.
There is only one issue before each of us Californians: Is Marriage of Divine or of Human Origin?
Judge Walker pays no attention to this fundamental issue, and relies solely upon how Prop 8 made certain members of society "feel" about themselves.
Those of us who supported Prop 8 and worked for its passage did so for one reason: We truly believe that Marriage was instituted by God for the specific purpose of carrying out God’s plan for the world and human society. Period.
That may be what you and many others believe about marriage, but that belief has no standing in court. Judge Walker was not placed on the bench to decide whether laws and conduct in the United States match up to the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, or other religious writings. His job is to measure the disputes that come to his courtroom against the laws and constitution of the United States of America.
Period.
Maybe even Exclamation Point.
The sacred text for Judge Walker is the US Constitution, and nowhere in the Constitution and its twenty seven amendments is God mentioned. Nowhere. Not even once.
Religion gets only two mentions in the Constitution. Article VI says there can be no religious test to hold office, and the First Amendment restrains Congress from establishing an official religion and abridging the free exercise of religion. That’s two mentions of religion, and both in the negative.
If the defendant-intervenors in the Prop 8 case tried to raise the issue of the divine institution of male-female marriage, any federal judge would have been right to throw the argument out. Judge Walker summarized this in two sentences in his decision (pdf p. 10), distilled from two of the most on-point Supreme Court cases:
A state’s interest in an enactment must of course be secular in nature. The state does not have an interest in enforcing private moral or religious beliefs without an accompanying secular purpose. See Lawrence v Texas, 539 US 558, 571 (2003); see also Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, 330 US 1, 15 (1947).
The state is not in the business of making religious judgments — and I’m surprised that you, the soon-to-be-retired Roman Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles and a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic church would want a secular judge to be passing judgment on whose religious views are correct. You and your brother bishops seem very passionate about claiming that kind of authority only for yourselves.
Cardinal, if you don’t like Walker’s ruling and want someone to blame for it, you might look in the mirror. It was likely money from Roman Catholic and Latter-Day Saints individuals and institutions that paid for the work of the defense-intervenors, and from where I sit, they did a pretty poor job.
Judge Walker gave them every opportunity to lay out a non-religious rationale for their position, and they failed. Miserably.
They did not build a case on facts, but merely asserted that one existed. They did not put forth credible expert witnesses, they did not bring forward peer-reviewed scientific studies, and they did not put forward a single convincing secular purpose for the kind of discrimination Prop 8 sought to enshrine in law. Wrote Walker (pdf p. 11):
[Prop 8] proponents in their trial brief promised to “demonstrate that redefining marriage to encompass same-sex relationships” would effect some twenty-three specific harmful consequences. Doc #295 at 13-14. At trial, however, proponents presented only one witness, David Blankenhorn, to address the government interest in marriage. Blankenhorn’s testimony is addressed at length hereafter; suffice it to say that he provided no credible evidence to support any of the claimed adverse effects proponents promised to demonstrate.
That’s the sum total of the case put forward by the defenders of Prop 8. One witness, and not a particularly good one at that. Walker weighed that poor excuse for a case against the strong, vigorous, and well-supported arguments of the plaintiffs, and (surprise, surprise) sided with those seeking to overturn Prop 8.
Indeed, your blog post proves the wisdom of Judge Walker’s ruling. You declare that there is one and only one reason you and others backed Prop 8 — your religious beliefs about the divine institution of marriage. Indeed, by the end of Walker’s decision, he seems to agree that this *is* what the case is about. After dismantling the six purported rationales for Prop 8 put forward by the DIs, Walker writes (pdf p. 134):
what remains of proponents’ case is an inference, amply supported by evidence in the record, that Proposition 8 was premised on the belief that same-sex couples simply are not as good as opposite-sex couples. FF 78-80. Whether that belief is based on moral disapproval of homosexuality, animus towards gays and lesbians or simply a belief that a relationship between a man and a woman is inherently better than a relationship between two men or two women, this belief is not a proper basis on which to legislate. See Romer, 517 US at 633; Moreno, 413 US at 534; Palmore v Sidoti, 466 US 429, 433 (1984) (“[T]he Constitution cannot control [private biases] but neither can it tolerate them.”).
Walker believes that you and your fellow Catholics believe that gays and lesbians are "objectively disordered" and sex between people of the same gender is a "grave depravity." He’s read the materials put out by the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (see Finding of Fact #77, points i and j on pdf p. 104). By the end of his decision, he agrees with you that this is why you want to enshrine this belief in law.
Thank God, however, that he believes this is "not a proper basis on which to legislate."
You may be free to discriminate against gays and lesbians within the Catholic church as a matter of faith, but the state of California is not free to do the same as a matter of law.
Thank God.
Your brother in Christ,
The Rev. Dr. Peterr



65 Comments




Hear Hear!
Amen Peterr. Thanks for this excellent post. I am always amazed by various religious adherents who demand preferential treatment from secular government. How can they fail to comprehend the adverse consequences to their own freedom of religious expression, if a religious doctrine other than their own became sanctioned and enforced by the state? Are such people entirely ignorant of the whole point of freedom of religion? It is baffling.
recommended, tweeted, and facebooked, peter. great pushback to the cardinal and all the other h8r’s who want their one religion to be the rule for all. they don’t want to realize that their version of sharia law is not the law of the united states of america.
thank you
Righteous!
Recc’d.
The RCC certainly had little problem with priests molesting children. Must have been God’s will too.
High praise, indeed.
Thanks for the rec!
Soon to be retired cardinal Mahony, indeed. And replaced by a guy who is even more conservative. I don’t think the people in the archdiocese are going to be happy.
The Catholic Church becomes more irrelevant every day. The PTB just don’t get it yet.
Wow!!
Awesome Awesome Awesome (ok, I have a limited vocabulary, I hope you can tell I like it a LOT!)
Fantastic letter sir. Just wonderful.
Why anyone should care what this spinster-man Mahony says about marriage is beyond me.
As my grandmother used to say when of us grandchildren messed with another but still had chores, or homework, or our own mess to tidy, “Tend your own affairs.”
Because, Your UnGrace, some affairs need tending in the Pope’s little charnel house, in case you hadn’t noticed.
The Pope’s stooges will never, ever run out of shiny things to call attention to…
Even if they have to polish them themselves.
Mahony’s premise (that marriage is divinely ordered and therefore the constitution does not apply) reminds me of an argument (polite) I got into many years ago with a neighbor and friend who insisted that the reason for something was, “It says so in the Bible.” He was astonished that I was not immediately convinced (being a nonbeliever, the Bible is not my authority). To him, that was the incontrovertible proof of his position. These folks just assume that their belief in the divine should overrule other considerations for everyone.
Maybe because the Catholic church thinks it is the only true church, and that there are only Catholics and non-Catholics.
Nicely written. The judge’s role was to define the secular state’s interest in marriage, not to divine how one or more religions view the same institution. The judge’s role was to determine which persons have access to a civil right, marriage, over which the state asserts monopoly control.
The issue was not about whether marriage was a sacrament, or which sacrament it is. It was not about whether a religion permitted or banned divorce (or whether the state does). Judge Walker’s decision has no bearing, for example, on whether a Catholic priest, an Orthodox or Liberal Jewish rabbi may, is obligated to, or prohibited from marrying gay or lesbian couples in love, and his decision has no affect on such matters. He was obligated only to determine whether the state permits such couples, as adult citizens, to marry. He said, “Of course it does.”
One of my co-workers was amused by Mahony being diagnosed with prostate cancer. Wanted to invite the cardinal to his support group meeting. (Said co-worker is gay. It would have been interesting.)
The Catholic hierarchy tends to think that there are Catholics, potential converts, and non-Christians who need to see the light.
Their viewpoint is getting closer to the absolute-ruler-popes of the middle ages. Going backwards at high speed, I think, and about to hit some severe speed bumps.
Anyone who objects to something because it isn’t in the Bible needs to be reminded that electricity, cars, and tobacco aren’t in there either, but polygamy and slavery are.
Shouldn’t the Cardinal be busy earning some money somewhere to pay some bills for all the children in LA he let get raped.
I think the Cardinal doesn’t have the time to spare to mouth off.
The churches opinion on same sex relationships is that they’re only appropriate between a teen or preteen and his priest.
Great they want to legislate based on religious doctrine…
So we’re going to have to crack out the talmud torah and holy bible to interpret how to biblically apply new zoning laws.
Raise the price paid at a toll? Not until we consult leviticus!
A few decades ago, the Catholic Church carefully distinguished between the legal institution of marriage, which is created by law, and the sacrament of matrimony, created by God Almighty. What happened to that helpful distinction, Cardinal?
“It says so in the Bible” What ever happened to “don’t believe everything you read?”
“There is only one issue before each of us Californians: Is Marriage of Divine or of Human Origin?”
Teh Stoopit, it burns.
Thank you for bringing this to FDL. My father used to say this sort of info helped us to know our enemies, Sunday talking heads, among them. I guess the Archbishop would fall into that category.
Perfect!
It would seem like the best way around this is to take the government out of marriages period – only have the government involved in civil unions (with equality under the law for all), while leaving actual “marriages” to churches and individuals, but not having those ceremonies carry any legal weight. If some church doesn’t like gay marriage – fine, they don’t have to perform that religious ceremony – but from a legal standpoint it wouldn’t matter with civil unions.
If only religion were the province of spiritual grownups like you, Peterr.
Alas, we have a SERIOUS toddler problem with this shit, worldwide.
One more reason we’re unfit to be here and will be gone soon enough.
Typically, Cardinal Baloney thinks that divine law takes precedence over the Constitutional framework under which we live. He may know his bible but he’s pretty weak in history if he doesn’t know that government established religious persecution wasn’t one of the things our founders were fleeing.
Is child molestation “of Divine or of Human Origin?”?
Nicely argued, Peterr.
the bigots know this is It for them. they’ve got to go all out, or it’s going to be over for them, and soon. which is a huge fear of theirs, politically. Teh Gaii helps bring in all those blue hairs who might have had a doctor’s appointment on primary day, but get em all riled up about evil nasty queers ruining their little grandbaby’s wedding and oh ones! can’t miss this vote!
but it’s becoming clear even to the less informed that gays getting married changes… nothing. absolutely nothing at all. the sky doesn’t fall, gawd doesn’t smite cities in righteous wrath, and those old guys in skirts and funny hats with pedophile friends? well, they’re pretty much just huckstering for money, now aren’t they?
If The Church hadn’t condemned Galileo as a heretic for his “Rotation of The Spheres”, his truths would have been acknowleged sooner and we wouldn’t be quite as ignorant and superstitious as we are.
When did God decide to ban Holy polygamous marriage with concubines and replace it with the Holy, one man – one woman marriage?
Or if the Inquisition never had happened or if the library at Alexandria hadn’t been burned or if there had been no crusades, witch hunts, etc. History is full of Christianity trying to take us back into the stone age.
I don’t accept it for fact that He knows his bible. He knows his dogma. To cut yourself off from a major part of living in this world has got to take a strong self defense program.
Valid point
Ummmm. My mister just said, I’m still waiting for someone to say that Judge Walker’s decision is in fact following the word of God. And, my tattoed mister doesn’t wear a robe or a cross. More of a tshirts and sandals sorta guy. But, he’s the one who was raised Catholic, so his response to the Bishop is more emotionally charged than mine. I just shake and hang my head.
Thank you, Peter, for this post. Good points and perspective.
The Ratzinger Crime Family should be paying taxes just like the Five Families in New York. No more Tall Steeple tax exemption.
Church vs. state. Apples and oranges.
Good Morning Reverend Peter and Firedogs -
oldnslow and I are watching Outrage ! right now – delightful to watch all these haters in light of His Honor’s decision
It helps if you understand that the popes between 1776 and John XXIII didn’t believe in democracy: they thought it was against god’s laws, or something similar. (There was at lest one pope who condemned it.) And this is the worldview that Benny XVI has signed on to,, and is selecting all his cardinals for; Paul VI and JPII were milder versions.
After Henry VIII decided that seceding from the church was easier than getting another divorce?
You mean Pope Nazi? How anyone could believe anything the Catholic Church says after electing a former member of the Nazi Party as Pope is well beyond me.
Cardinal Mahony asks, Is marriage of divine or of human origin?
I have some news for you, Cardinal, God is of human origin.
Any elected official making an argument from religion (separation of church and state) should be immediately impeached and removed from office.
A highly placed prelate in the Holy Roman Baby Rapist Protection Racket may say what he likes, but being a muckety-muck in an organization dedicated to expanding the hearts, minds, and rectums of youngsters doesn’t carry much weight with me.
Glenn Smith is upstairs.
touche!
Just as with the Mormons. Non-LDS friends of mine who moved to Salt Lake City found that the easiest way to shut down their polite but relentless proselytizing was very simple, though: “God told me you are wrong.” It is simply unanswerable within their faith’s construct, since personal revealed truth (silly though it may be, with disappearing gold plates and unlimited wives for every man) is the basis of their church. You can be left alone by saying “God told me you are wrong.”
Not sure this would work with Catholics, with their highly ordered demonology that masquerades as God, though.
And more and more of those blue hairs realize every day that their grandbaby won’t have a very swell reception if the gays don’t manage it, or that their weekly rinse-and-set comes out awfully funny looking if they spout their bigotry at the salon on Thursday afternoon.
The more of us come out, in the face of seemingly irreversible bigotry and ignorance, the more hearts will be melted. Or at least good sense will prevail, since no one wants a ruined wedding party or weekly hairdo.
And to pretend to cut yourself off from one of God’s primary gifts takes a rather twisted soul.
Either/or, Balony, which is it?
Mr. Mahoney would do well to remember that his power to marry people “legally” has been delegated to him by the State. He is free to perform religious marriages but without this State delegation of power – those marriages would have no value before the IRS, or any other arm of the government…
In fact, this is how it operates in most of Europe. You go to the magistrate and have your legal marriage first. Then you go to the church (but only if you want to) and have the party marriage.
Hmmmpf. We should bring that back here.
heh heh heh
Or invent them ex cathedra.
Peterr, thank you for your brilliant response to Cardinal Mahoney. Right on the money.
Or if the museums and libraries had been as well protected as the oil ministry offices were when we illegally invaded Iraq and laid allowed looters to erase evidence of the great Babylonian civilization and the caliphate.
Very True
Indeed all the knocks on religion are not needed and are not helpful.
The state has the legal authority – it permits others to exercise that authority if they wish – they can op out (if there is a location where they can not op-out then that institution should be able to win the right to op out in court).
I see no legal basis for a claim for biblical authority to rule, just as I see no basis to overturn because the judge is believed to be gay.
It was a well written opinion – I do not see the USSC overturning it.
Amen.
excellent post. Happy to see that judge bent over backwards to give the prop 8 people a chance to hang themselves. Which they proceeded to do in fine fashion. He laid out a very strong case, so on what grounds are the prop 8 nuts appealing? They do have to have a reason, no? And since their entire case looks to be based on “faith” rather than law, what point of law are they saying that Walker got wrong?
Or are they simply saying that what they believe is right and that the law must follow what they believe, because of course, they are right.
Cardinal Mahony makes a logical error of false choice when he asks: “Is Marriage of Divine or of Human Origin?”
He might as well ask if July 4 in the U.S. is of national origin or simply made up by creators of the calendar.
Mahony can believe that marriage is of divine origin, just as he can believe that Christmas is holy. But they are also of legal origin and Dec. 25, respectively.
First off he should always keep front and foremost the fact that we have an ideology of separation of church and state for precisely this reason. If we didn’t we would slowly crawl back to the days of the inquisition. One of the major concepts of equal “protection” under the law is to protect the minority from the “TYRANY” of the majority.
Amen! This makes almost all the arguments for gay marriage and states my arguments in an easy to defend manner.
Thank you, everyone.
Wonderful, Peterr. You state it so clearly.
I’m old enough to remember when even cardinals and Protestant ministers, too, understood that one’s reliegious beliefs had nothing to do with whether somehing was legal or constitutional, and were even glad about it.
Southern Baptists ten dto be gobsmacked when reminded (er, told for the first time) that Colonial-era Baptists were among those pushing hardest for separation of church from state.
What’s wrong with these folks? (yeah, I know the answer to that one)
What a wonderful post! This should be on the news. Though it won’t.
Nice of her to be that direct. *g*
Dear Father Bologna,
Rather than waste your time pontificating about the infallible sanctity of the church’s position about same sex marriage, I’d be concerned about more relevant things—such as how to make a 15th century relic like your church relevant in the 21st century.
Small wonder that your flock abandon the church in droves with the rigid and hypocritical orthodoxy that your leadership promotes. If I were you, I’d get the log out of your eye so you might see the speck in others. And clean up your act with pedophiles too. They cost you a lot of money—not to mention the incalculable cost of loss of respect.
I agree with you. always have felt this way.
tomchicago @ 62 and spanishinquisition @ 22. How nice to find sweet reason rearing her ugly head. His Grace is, of course, no theologian, but his opinion is perfectly valid at a synod or other convocation of those accepting a Thomist point of view. Trouble is, Thomists are a bit thin on the ground on the internets. Who, besides myself, would like to see a sort of Summa Theologica Secundum, attempting to do in the 21st century what Aquinas did in the thirteenth: a comprehensive, orderly, and thought provoking reconciliation of the best of current thought with revelation?
Word!
I’d LOVE to see them push that to the SC..
About time we had a real lock at the ‘facts’ in their ‘Stone Tablets’ and the real Facts based on Historical Record.. I’d watch…LOL!!!