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To judge by his column in today’s Washington Post, Michael Gerson has little grasp of the evangelical world.
It is true that evangelicals are generally not libertarian. They admit a place for government in encouraging values and caring for the needy. Yet they do not believe that governmental elites share their values or have their best interests at heart. Among conservative Christians, government is often viewed as a force of secularization — a source of both bureaucratic regulation and moral deregulation. By identifying with expanded government, Obama fed long-standing evangelical fears of the aggressive, secular state.
Michael, here’s a news flash. Evangelicals may make common cause with libertarians from time to time, but overall they are about as far from libertarians as you’re going to find. Their concern is that the state is too secular, not that it is too aggressive.
Instead of a limited government, evangelicals want an expanded government. They don’t simply want it, but they’re working hard to make it happen:
- Abortion? Get government into every woman’s womb, as soon as possible.
- Sex education? Force states to teach ‘abstinence only’ and don’t talk about contraception and STD prevention via condoms.
- Evolution? Require schools to teach creationism alongside it.
- Homosexuality? Use all the power of government to stamp it out and otherwise express disapproval of it — DADT, DOMA, laws/constitutional amendments to sanction discrimination based on perceived sexual orientation, etc.
- The Military? They want to turn it into a literal Army of God, spreading the Good News at gunpoint.
To say that evangelicals fear big government is laughable. They love big government — as long as they get to run it.
If this column is any indication of Gerson’s grasp of religion and politics, his new book should be on the fiction table.
37 Comments
The evangelicals of my experience particularly like the power of the purse, like to use power of taxation in their interest. On the local Zoning board, had several lowering appraisals of friends, raising those of opponents.
Shorter evangelicals = Freedom for me but not for thee”
With due respect: fixed that.
And via Doug Coe’s C Street “Family,” have several well-known evangelical “leaders” such as Rick Warren of famous Saddleback megachurch, plus RepubliKKKan politicians, work with politicians in Uganda to pass a “Death to all Homosexuals” legislation. It’s a “start,” isn’t it?
With due respect, expanded on that to provide additional insight into what evangelicals really want the “government” to do to every homosexual everywhere on this planet.
Not to mention that they cheer on the war on drugs, prostitution, gambling, and would probably ban booze if they could.
Very limited governmenty!
OT:
Steven Hayes guilty of 16 of 17 counts in home invasion and murder of wife and 2 daughters! Guilty in all capital charges!! Hope they vote to put this animal on death row. If ever a criminal deserves the death penalty it is this animal! They raped & burned to death the girls. Raped and strangled the mother.
Can someone give me a simple definition of what an evangelical is? As many books as I’ve read on the political influence of the religious right, I’m still a moron of what distinguishes one group from another. They all seem the same to me.
True, but let’s make sure that everyone can carry loaded weapons everywhere we go. Yay-hoo. that makes sense.
As you might recall, I come from an extremely rightwing fundie family, and I really cannot distinguish between the various varieties of extemist Christians, myself. I do believe that Evangelicals are all about proselytizing and “spreading the word,” or as I like to put it: ramming their religion down your throat.
The evans seem to be the ones who are “born again” – whatever that means.
Why don’t these evangelicals saddle up their dinosaurs and ride off into the sunset?
evangelicals outside the US is often close to Fundamentalism
but in the US it is coming back to being a “liberal” group that can work with the Christian “secular” humanist (yes, you can be a secular humanist and not also an atheist).
The 4 concepts remain as they have for the last several centuries:
# The need for personal conversion (or being “born again”)
# Actively expressing and sharing the gospel
# A high regard for biblical authority, especially biblical inerrancy
# An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the death and resurrection of Jesus
but biblical inerrancy is being redifine as to “what is really meant”
The Fundi position that is the topic of the rant is about what some Evangelicals want, but is not true of all. But the point that they -ALL – are into big gov is true, with the secular humanist Christians wanting more money for the social safety net – just like any liberal. They’re are not large in number – most I know are Unitarian Universalist Christians (yes there are still a few Christians in UU and some are evangelical), or Quakers, but some are found in most variations of Christian worship. The Christian “secular” humanist has a “secular” in that they believe in total separation of church and state, but for some that is a given and they just refer to themselves as Christian Humanists.
lol
There are evangelicals and then there are “evangelicals” in the political sense, the unholy alliance brewed up in 1978 by Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, the Southern Baptist Convention (after the Republican takeover), and conservative Catholics and clergy. It is the latter who want government to prefer their worldview over all others as the “traditional American separation of church and state”. It is the latter who long for the Geneva of John Calvin or the Catholicism of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain.
I didn’t remember that about your family. Maybe this time it will stick.
I’m glad to see it’s only a little clearer to you than to me. I have read that evans are about proselytising and also as Twain sez, on the next comment ‘born again.’ I think I finally understand that phrase, meaning consciously rededicate your life to Christ at some point in your adult years, as opposed to just accepting Xtianity as the religion you were born into.
But if that’s what evans are, then what distinguishes all the other fundie protestant groups that keep splitting off from the evans? Phillips in American Theocracy, keeps citing 6 or more that he infers are different groups, but never clearly defines the differences, at least to my satisfaction.
From Wikipedia on Fundamentalist Christianity:
What the Wikipedia article doesn’t say is that the project was funded by a Standard Oil of California executive, who was also concerned about the union movement and the theology of the “social gospel”. Yet another trend out of California (and augmented by the Moody Bible Institute of Chicago) that seeded “Southern fundamentalism”. Now I wonder why the churches in the South were not interested in the “social gospel”?
Fundamentalists are only one strain of “evangelicals” in the political sense. There are also Pentecostals, several varieties of Baptists, and conservative Catholics (although evangelical in the past tended to mean Protestant).
The issue for me, as someone raised in the church and having attended “Bible camp” and all the rest, is that my family’s beliefs and values have radically and dramatically changed, esp since the early 1970s, with the infestation of Pat Robertson and his disgusting 700 club (see TarheelDem @13).
IMO, I have witnessed my family get ever more crazy and radical. One sibling & her family are thoroughly in league with Doug Coe’s C Street “Family,” and it’s made them quite kooky. The rest aren’t much better.
In the main, the profess to believe explicitly in Jesus (and are born again – I do “get” what that means but is hard to explain), yet I’ve also witnessed them – and their churches – move further and further away from preaching from the New Testament, which is mostly about the good news (i.e. positive) of Jesus and being “saved” and being tolerant, loving, kind and good… into preaching mostly from the Old Testament, which is all about the jealous god who smites everyone and everyone is sinful and evil all the time.
It’s been a rather neat trick, but it was wrought with patience but with malice aforethought over several decades. It’s all about Karl Rove, Lee Atwater, Dick Cheney and that cabal working hand-in-glove with Doug Coe, Pat Robertson, etc, to brainwash and manipulate citizens.
It’s unfortunate bc for the most part, my family are “true believers,” and I “get” that they mostly do live their religious beliefs. But I feel that they’re being manipulated and severely brainwashed by the PTB. Just my “take,” of course.
And the religion as they practice it now is very different from what I experienced as a child and teenager. It’s become intolerant, hateful, spitful, nasty and beligerant. That’s not what it was like when I was younger (and certainly there are churches out there today that are not that way, but it appears that the majority have moved in the same direction as my family’s churches). FWIW.
Sounds like a business opportunity. Sell guides on the web titled “Fundies for Dummies.”
“All religion leads to Koran-burning.”
You see my problem. They all look the same to me.
Phillips covers part of what you say in American Theocracy. My short version is that bad religion drives out good, in the sense of becoming more & more radical. It’s hard to maintain group enthusiasm if the group is organized around moderate ideas, as the author on book salon retyped my slogan in a more thoughtful way.
Heh. Sounds like a good idea to me too. Good idea for someone else to do. Me, I’ve now provoked enough on this thread. *g*
I understand the rules are we get one blogwhore. So here’s mine.
Technically any proseletyzing Christian is “evangelical’ but in American politics and culture it effectively refers to protestants who believe in (unbiblical) dogmas such as the rapture, and other millenial “end of times” preachings. The millenial beliefs are not common to all Christians. and only gained on real currency in the 19th century. Association with protestant/political organizations such as the moral majority and robertsons group in Va Beach and general interest in dragging belief into secular issues and politics is another distinguishing trait
When it comes to politics, they are the same. Just somewhat different hot-button issues at the edges.
How they got to where they currently are is different and means that no region of the nation lacks these “evangelicals”. In Manhattan, they just call them Catholics, for example.
Thanks to everyone who has tried to explain all the subtleties and differences to me. Some of it will stick, but most will not as I’m so far away from all of this myself. However, since it is important, I’ll continue to work at it with the tolerance I can muster for such information.
Correct. There’s this whole victimizing of Christians to make them part of the “herd,” as in: their beliefs are under some weird kind of “attack.” So go team: onward Xtian soldiers, rah rah… yadda yadda.
It’s all part of the gig of keeping them brainwashed and manipulated. If they view themselves as constantly “under attack,” then they are fearful. One sibling is buying Gingrich’s b.s. that there Muslims intent on imposing Sharia law in the USA, and that these Muslims will stop at nothing to do it. It’s just another means of causing them to feel “energized” about “defending their faith” against these so-called “enemies” bent on the destruction of the Christian faith and life as we know it in the USA.
Of course, it’s actually the Oligrachy and the corporations who are bent on the destruction of the middle class, but it’s a neat trick to deflect their attention onto hapless Muslims (most of them are innocent) as the target of their “fear” and “anger.”
What Sharia law is being imposed?? My sibling insists that “Detroit” is being run by Sharia law. I have no idea what that means, and frankly didn’t bother to ask for elaboration is it’s all crazy cloud kookoo land, imo, meant only as a: look at this shiny object, which will definitely distract you.
Your conflating religious paleo conservatives with the “evangelical” movement. Conservative Catholics are reactionary but they dont differ from thier predecessors in any way enough to call it a “movement”. The evangelicals as a movement have a history that can be traced to a few very specific, finite decisions that were made by Republican party strategists and conservative Protestant leaders in the 60′s, after the huge defeat of Barry Goldwater. In fact, most “Evangelicals” dont consider Catholics to even be Christian by what they would think of as “western” and “American” standard.
“Of course, it’s actually the Oligrachy and the corporations who are bent on the destruction of the middle class, but it’s a neat trick to deflect their attention onto hapless Muslims (most of them are innocent) as the target of their “fear” and “anger.”
What Sharia law is being imposed?? My sibling insists that “Detroit” is being run by Sharia law. I have no idea what that means, and frankly didn’t bother to ask for elaboration is it’s all crazy cloud kookoo land, imo, meant only as a: look at this shiny object, which will definitely distract you.”
Exactly. The “Sharia Law” thing is a HUUUUGE and popular trope of the Beck/limbaugh/savage listeners.None of them know what they are talking about its just a focus for their existential hate and anger. And it IS part of an effort to keep the working class divided. Its a “wedge”, like so many of the culture war wedge issues, that keep pople disturbed and not thinking about how they are being exploited.
Michael Gerson should be in prison.
Of all the dumb things Democratic consultants have done (and the list goes on and on), one of the most addle-brained ideas was “reaching out” to evangelical Christians.
The Ivory Soap percentage of evangelicals won’t consider voting for a Democrat who is pro-choice and pro-equality. The only way to win their votes is to compromise your principles. Unfortunately, some consultants (I’m looking at you, Mara Vanderslice) advocate just that. She and others have advised Democrats to downplay their support for abortion rights. Ms. Vanderslice even urged them not to say that abortion as a constitutional right, which certainly comes as news to those who studied Roe v. Wade in law school.
Sounds like a business opportunity. Sell guides on the web titled “Fundies for Dummies.”
Believe it or not, there’s a book titled “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Faith”. I saw it at the checkout lane at the local grocery store, and tried not to laugh too hard.
“The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Faith” a.k.a. the Bible.
Evangelical Chrisitian are as good Christians as Al Qeda are good Moslems. Liberal sectarians have never got it.The people who beat their chests and talk about Holy wars, big government, and the moral decay of America are in reality anti-Christians. The Master told us that you know a Christian by their works not their lobbying, tv preaching, and make up artists.They would gladly burn you at the stake to save your soul. Quit worrying about their power, pity them.They will have much to account for when The Master comes back to judge the quick and the dead.
Charles B. Tiffany
Kissimmee, Florida
From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evangelical:
Definition of EVANGELICAL
1: of, relating to, or being in agreement with the Christian gospel especially as it is presented in the four Gospels
3: emphasizing salvation by faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ through personal conversion, the authority of Scripture, and the importance of preaching as contrasted with ritual
4 (often capitalized): of, adhering to, or marked by fundamentalism
5: marked by militant or crusading zeal : evangelistic
There are still some who believe in living their witness (vs just braying about it) and dusting off their feet and traveling on if their target declines saving. They are becoming fewer, or at least drowned out, if not drummed out.
I think 5 is most pertinent here – these are those that believe it is incumbent upon them to bring the Kingdom, ‘saving’ the willing and letting the rest sink, but if you manage to swim meanwhile you must adhere to their do-as-I-say morality. Talibangicals, forsooth.
“you can be a secular humanist and not also an atheist”
Well, not really. “Secular” and “religious” are contradictions.
Like checking out a religion but rejecting it because you like meatballs.
Peter,
There was an article by Dana Milbank in Monday’s (?)Washington Post about Mormon Glen Beck’s bottom line message: the White House Prophesy, going back to the early days of Mormonism. He keeps using the phrase, shredding of the constitution, hanging by a thread, etc. as a code to say that the time is coming when Mormonism will ascend to national power. His charge is that Obama’s “socialism” is shredding the constitution. I don’t know if he also points to Bush/Obama’s shredding of the constitution vis a vis civil rights with regard to the “war on terror” justifying perpetual, permanent war and empire, etc. I keep reading about the various Tea Party candidates who are wanting to repeal this and that portion of the constitution and openly saying that’s their intent. I think it very ironic that in Beck’s “real” but probably not disclosed terms. he would say that they are the messengers and servants of God sent to prepare the way for the Mormons to rise up and take over out of the chaos of the shredding of the constitution, etc.
I’ve long been an admirer of your occasional posts. Yesterday I went to your profile and learned more about your vocation and values. I knew you were a pastor, but wasn’t sure of your denomination, but assumed something akin to a kind of “mainstreamed” liberation theology posture.
But as a Lutheran pastor with your social justice commitments, but no less a PASTOR, I wonder how you handle the kinds of anti-faith comments such as most of the above, beyond ignoring them.
I’ve just left the Episcopal Church after 50 years and am joining a Lutheran Church I’ve long admired because of their long term commitment to social justice programming. Their publicly proclaimed vision statement and description of their programmatic commitments in response bowled me over with joy and hope that just perhaps I’ve stumbled upon the kind of church I have longed for for many years on many aspects of the living contents of their calling to be doers and believers of the gospel. We shall see.
But in the midst of the above anti-faith statements, I want to affirm your faith and calling and ministry, whatever its content within and to your congregation.
Grace and peace,
mea culpa, I forgot about the second r in PETERR.