Tweet
The Marines put a lot of stock in their reputation and image. Words like “honor” play a large part in Marine culture, as does the Marine motto “Semper Fi.” The Marines’ recruiting website puts it like this:
Marines are held to the highest standards, ethically and morally. Respect for others is essential. Marines are expected to act responsibly in a manner befitting the title they’ve earned.
That may be the expectation, but the reality — at least insofar as the Marines are responsible for the conditions of Bradley Manning’s detention — is something else.
The conduct of Quantico Brig commander CWO Denise Barnes in particular is not doing much to enhance the image of the Corps, but she’s hardly alone in that. Marines above and below her in the chain of command are at least as responsible for the abuse of the reputation of the Corps as she is.
What kind of Marine treats prisoners with disrespect, and plays petty, degrading, and humiliating games with them?
What kind of Marine overrules expert medical opinion for the care of those under his/her control and command?
What kind of Marine lies about his or her actions and stands in the way of legitimate legal processes?
What kind of Marine detains civilian visitors to the brig for no reason other than to prevent the prisoner from having visits by attempting to intimidate those who try?
What kind of Marine subjects prisoners in custody to conditions that the International Committee of the Red Cross would call a violation of the Geneva Conventions?
What kind of Marine? The kind found up and down the chain of command at the Quantico brig, apparently. If it is a military crime to “bring discredit upon the armed forces,” as Manning is charged with doing, then there are more than a few leathernecks who ought to be facing a military tribunal of their own.
Judge Andrew Napolitano of Fox News summed up the situation like this in January, and things have only gotten worse since then:
Regardless of whatever crime Private Manning may or may not have committed, he’s innocent until proven guilty. Both Mr. House and Private Manning have constitutional rights. These KGB-like government tactics are not only obscenely un-American, they are wholly unconstitutional and unlawful.
Barnes is not only not showing respect, but bringing the Corps into disrespect by her punitive approach to a prisoner in her brig awaiting trial. By not putting a stop to this conduct, Barnes’ superiors are joining her in bringing disrespect upon the Corps.
What kind of Marine sits by in silence as the reputation of the Corps is trashed?
They are The Few. The Proud. The KGB-Like.
It wasn’t always like this, you know. I have a feeling that PFC Guy Gabaldon, USMC (Reserve), would not be impressed (emphasis added):
The President of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Guy L. Gabaldon (517054), Private First Class, U.S. Marine Corps (Reserve), for extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty while serving with Headquarters and Service Company, Second Marines, SECOND Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Saipan and Tinian, Marianas Islands, South Pacific Area, from 15 June to 1 August 1944. Acting as a Japanese Interpreter for the Second Marines, Private First Class Gabaldon displayed extreme courage and initiative in single-handedly capturing enemy civilian and military personnel during the Saipan and Tinian operations. Working alone in front of the lines, he daringly entered enemy caves, pillboxes, buildings, and jungle brush, frequently in the face of hostile fire, and succeeded in not only obtaining vital military information, but in capturing well over one thousand enemy civilians and troops. Through his valiant and distinguished exploits, Private First Class Gabaldon made an important contribution to the successful prosecution of the campaign and, through his efforts, a definite humane treatment of civilian prisoners was assured. His courageous and inspiring devotion to duty throughout reflects the highest credit upon himself and the United States Naval Service.
Approved by the Secretary of the Navy on November 23, 1960
Aren’t there any Marines like PFC Gabaldon around today?
63 Comments
Have always had great respect for the Marines but I’m afraid that’s gone. This Denise person is a sadist and I imagine is enjoying all the attention she’s getting. Stripping Manning of all his clothes is sexual depravity at its worst and is far beyond the Conventions. She should be thrown out of the Marines.
Thanks, Peterr, for writing.
The Marines who now torture Bradley Manning are, of course, debasing themselves as well. One wonders what level of humanity they will be able to return to when this chapter ends for them. It does end, doesn’t it?
Did you see Ray McGovern’s piece camparing what is happeing to manning as mafia style intimidation?
http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2011/03/04/armys-mafia-abuse-of-pvt-bradley-manning/
It only took the US 6 short decades to forget the lessons of WWII. More important than the reason why we fought is also how we fought that war – it was a full participation of every element of our society, and for the most part, our troops fully respected the rules of war at the time.
IIRC, due to the brutality of the fighting in the Pacific, PFC Gabaldon’s actions were not universally popular with many Marines, but his heroism certainly went a long way towards redeeming our conduct in that campaign. Decency and humanity are so easily forgotten on the battlefield, especially when fighting an enemy whose culture was so much more alien to our own.
Receiving the Navy Cross, the second highest honor awarded to any Marine or Sailor, is no degradation, but I always thought he deserved the Medal of Honor for his bravery.
And you are right, I doubt he would recognize the Marines in charge of the Quantico brig as fellow leathernecks.
Boy, that could even put Plame in a whole new light.
What kind of Commander-in-Chief allows and/or encourages this to happen? That about says it all.
“Judge Andrew Napolitano of Fox News summed up the situation like this in January, and things have only gotten worse since then:
“Regardless of whatever crime Private Manning may or may not have committed, he’s innocent until proven guilty. Both Mr. House and Private Manning have constitutional rights. These KGB-like government tactics are not only obscenely un-American, they are wholly unconstitutional and unlawful.”
……..
It’s not every day I agree with someone on Fox.
P.S.: I don’t like this format. I like the one with the numbers better.
Yup, the buck stops there.
Speaking of the C-in-C, Obama takes another dive on Gitmo:
http://nyti.ms/fN5q98
“She should be thrown out of the Marines.”
… and into the cell next to Manning.
When is Dennis Kucinich going to lead a congressional delegation to Quantico to meet with Bradley Manning?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/07/there-will-be-consequences-for-mannings-mistreatment-kucinich-warns-sec-gates/#
C-in-C, as in Coward-in-Chief.
What kind of Marine would do all of that? My guess is Marines who were given wedgies in high school by tough Computer Geeks like Brad./s
I think its quite obvious that the previous administration under Bush and Cheney were guilty of war crimes. It is just as obvious that Obama’s administration was guilty of covering those crimes up. Now it appears the Big O and his minions are just as culpable.
Like Junior and Dick the Undead, I guess Barry Sell-out has no plans to travel to Europe after his term, either.
It is just sickening.
Excellent post, Peterr… it should shock anyone’s conscience.
Do the Marines detaining Bradley Manning have operative consciences? Denise Barnes must not have.
“I don’t have any position on Mr. Manning’s guilt or innocence, but the way he’s being treated raises questions about the Pentagon and about Secretary Gates,” Kucinich concluded.”
AND OBAMA!!
The strong defend the weak and helpless the Powerless look for someone weaker than them to abuse. Bradley risked everything by standing up for Democracy and letting the public know the truth about whats going on.
Marines who abuse Bradley because he is now helpless are like Nazi guards at Death Camps using the I was just obeying orders excuse.
Its sad the Marines don’t have a Man among them.
What Marine defies his oath with cruel and unusual punishment…?
http://www.marines.com/main/index/making_marines/culture/traditions/the_oath
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am8
Bradley.
Just what harm has Bradley really done by leaking this information besides embarrassing some powerful people?
Are the Marines Lackey’s for the powerful who beat up anyone who embarrasses the rich and powerful?
Did America become Mubarak’s Egypt when I was not looking?
Bradley E. Manning (born December 17, 1987) is a United States Army soldier who was arrested in May 2010 in Iraq on suspicion of having passed classified information to the whistleblower website WikiLeaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning
The Marines wish he were one of then Bradley is Army! :)
Great job, Peterr.
Jason Leopold was just on Shannyn Moore’s Anchorage-Juneau radio program, talking about this, and about David Hicks’ book on Gitmo.
Anyone – including Goddam Sen. John Kerry – who thinks what is happening to Manning is anything short of torture, deserves honorary citizenship in the USSR of 1937.
The Marines behavior is meant to force a confession the Marines are just making excuses for how they are treating Bradley because they are Wusses.
Attack people in ways that hurt them the Marines value Strength, Loyalty etc or at least they say they do.
Bradley’s actions leaking that material is helping end the war. Bradley’s actions will help us end the wars sooner and save how many solders lives?
The Marine’s actions will make the next Bradley think twice and cost how many solder’s lives.
Leave No Man behind I guess is a joke among the Marines.
An additional 22 charges were preferred in March 2011, including “aiding the enemy,” a capital offense, though prosecutors said they would not seek the death penalty. He is currently awaiting a hearing to decide whether he will face a court martial.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning
So why wasn’t Scooter Libby ever charged like this?
Manning is being punished before he is tried and convicted. This story is getting out into the civilized world. The Guardian ran a piece on him on Friday. There will be others. The United States is losing its status as a nation of law rather than persons.
The Pentagon let an Army Private have access to all this classified information I’m sorry but when security is THAT LAX well the Pentagon was ASKING FOR IT.
Just imagine if Bradley was an officer what kind of secrets could he have taken with that kind of access?
What are the Marines afraid of that they need to mistreat Private Manning?
Everything, except mistreating Private Manning.
If only we had a Commander In Chief with a moral compass, to do the right thing here.
Unfortunately we have Obama.
And make no mistake…if we don’t put a stop to this crap with Bradley Manning, this will become the common way of treating people who make our feudal overlords look bad.
A lot of why this is happening is summed up by one word: INTIMIDATION.
They are attempting to intimidate Manning into a false confession of something heinous, criminal or traitorous.
And they are also trying to *intimidate* all US citizens. Stand forewarned: you, too, can be imprisoned for months/years without having your legal rights. If the PTB don’t like what YOU did, this could happen to you. Don’t think otherwise.
“…if we don’t put a stop to this crap with Bradley Manning, this will become the common way of treating people who make our feudal overlords look bad.”
Absolutely! Any citizen who claps & cheers for what’s happening to Manning is a complete fool. This could happen to any citizen and for a lot less provocation. Make no mistake, this is what’s called “the thin edge of the wedge.”
My sympathies and outrage and petition signing, etc, are all in support of Manning, but I am also, truthfully, quite self-interested in the outcome. And every other citizen should be, too.
thank you Rev, these are the very questions oldnslow has been asking for some time now
I have no doubt those marines tasked with the barbaric treatment of PFC Manning are being constantly fed the “worst of the worst” lies told to those assigned to Guantanamo
via Jason Leopold, I listened to a podcast of two former Guantanamo MP’s Brandon Neely and Albert Melise talk about their experiences and the price they continue to pay in PTSD once both had figured out they had been deceived in to participating in inhumane treatment with this shit
This is a all volunteer Marine Corps There was a draft untill 1969 gave the US Citizen a more deverse Marine.
Operation Bradical
Over the weekend, the loose hacker collective Anonymous declared that it will go on the offensive against those who are currently detaining Manning in a Quantico military brig, keeping him in solitary confinement and forcing him to strip nightly and stand at attention naked each morning.
In a crowdsourced document used to coordinate the group’s actions, Anonymous members name Department of Defense Press Secretary Geoff Morell and chief warrant officer Denise Barnes as targets and call on members to dig up personal information on both, including phone numbers, personal histories and home addresses. The goal of the operation, for now, is to “dox” the two officials, the typical Anonymous method of publishing personal information of victims and using it for mass harassment.
“Targets established,” reads the document, before naming Morell and Barnes. “We’re in the ruining business. And business is good.”
The group, which is calling its attack “Operation Bradical,” also lists demands as follows:
“Manning must be given sheets, blankets, any religious texts he desires, adequate reading material, clothes, and a ball. One week. Otherwise, we continue to dox and ruin those responsible for keeping him naked, without bedding, without any of the basic amenities that were provided even to captured Nazis in WWII.”
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2011/03/07/anonymous-hackers-target-alleged-wikileaker-bradley-mannings-jailers/
The last scene in A Few Good Men
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EQQYeRAT3o
Judge Randolph:
Downey:
Joanne:
Downey:
Dawson:
Dylan Rattigan made a seminel point on his show today. If this were George Bush doing to Bradley Manning what Obama is allowing (and maybe even ordering) to be done, there’d be liberals and progressives raising all sorts of hell right now. Except for Firedoglake, The Nation, Democracy Now, Think Progress, and precious few other places, absolutely no outrage exists. We should be even more angry at Obama for two reasons; one, if the right does it, it’s at least what we expect from them, and two, for Obama to allow this to happen damages the credibility of all who call themselves civil libertarians, liberals and progressives. How can we credibly attack the right for doing what too many of us are letting Obama get away with. This has been my basic criticism of the left since Obama’s ascendency to the White House. Either we have real principles we are willing to fight for, or we’re either part of the Democratic party machinery and therefore have to defend what our side does, no matter what our values and principles are.
As for myself, I’ve spared no criticism for Obama. But what worries me more is the people who continue to make excuses for this guy, no matter what he does, or doesn’t do, in this case. I fully realize he’s not even close to what a conservative republican is, but is that our standard. Should we not expect and demand more from a Democratic president? We should be demanding Obama put an end to this inhumane treatment immediately.
Given this president’s first two and half years in office, I already know what his campaign is going to based on, hell it has to be based, “At least I’m not as bad as the other guy”. Which, of course, means we will be forced to vote for the lesser of the worst of two evils. I had my problems with Clinton, and to this day, believe we would not be in the disastrous shape we’re in without his selling out of his base. But not even I think Clinton would’ve gone this far.
Once again I ask Progressives and Liberals, is supporting a fake progressive worth it. Are we wedded to principle or not. If we’re not, that makes us no better than those on the right. It means we seek power for power sake, not for any ideological, principled reasons. At what point will we finally get it; this Democratic party is not your daddy’s Democratic party, and when will we finally reach a point until we need an “Egypt” moment from progressives and take back our party from the interlopers who’ve stolen our name to gain power to continue conservative policies, and to serve their corporate masters.
“I have no doubt those marines tasked with the barbaric treatment of PFC Manning are being constantly fed the “worst of the worst” lies told to those assigned to Guantanamo…”
If the above scenario is true, and I have little reason to believe that is not the case, the Marines responsible for the abuse and mistreatment of Manning are still culpable even though they’re only “following orders.” Following an unlawful order may still result in the commission of a crime, as the non-commissioned soldiers at Abu Graib learned during their courts-martial.
Peterr
These are all good questions. But the real answer to “what kind of Marine would do all these things” is “a Marine who has been ordered to do them.” And the orders have come from on high. No doubt in my mind about that.
RH
The followup question is pretty obvious, then:
What kind of Marine would accept orders like these?
Thank you for posting the link to Ray McGovern’s piece, thankfully, there are former intelligence officers like him who know that only when the public is informed can there be true security. As for the marines, all of the ones who stand by and let their superiors do this to Bradley Manning are complicit in this criminal activity. Too bad courage isn’t contagious!
I don’t understand why the Marines are the ones who keep Manning locked up. Doesn’t Manning belong to the Army? Surely they have their own brigs all over the place. Why is he at Quantico?
A Marine who is acting illegally.
Only problem is we are no longer a country of rule of law.
donbacon March 7th, 2011 at 2:41 pm ~
At the VERY least, Anonymous has become a significant voice to communicate things like the mistreatment of Bradley Manning and the need for this to be repaired. This is *most* useful, quite apart from anything else. People are afraid of Anonymous and they are watching and listening. This is a good thing.
The Marines , are few, that are proud.
Boy ol Barack turned out to be a real POTUS POS didn’t he? It’s not like he can’t change his mind but I think he stepped in it and now he’s sliding down that slippery slope.
Peterr
The answer is, the majority of them. Independent thinking/judgment is not encouraged in the military, especially in the Marines, where recruits are completely broken down psychologically in boot camp and then built back up to become Marines. Of all the armed services, in my experience, Marines are the least likely to disobey orders.
Have you read Jason Leopold’s interview with David Hicks and a couple of the Guantanamo guards on Truthout? Some good insights there.
The point I am trying to make is that while the Marines in charge of Bradley Manning are hardly blameless, I don’t doubt that orders for him to be treated this way are coming down from way above the jailers’ pay grade. It’s almost as if W, that is, Dick Cheney, and the various other criminals of the Bush administration are still in charge. If there’s pressure to bring to bear, it has to be put on Obama, not some witless Marine warrant officer.
RH
Oscar Romero
No doubt Manning is at Quantico because the FBI is also there.
RH
There are elements in the Marine, Army, CIA, Wall St, military, and the Democratic party that are all POS.
Females in the military are more afraid of our own troops than the enemy.
Torture, murder, and rape is practiced freely by the military and CIA without consequences. This administration does nothing, and even continues the practice.
Sadly, Obama is a criminal too.
Demonization of rank-and-file soldiers isn’t likely to provide useful results (and probably isn’t accurate, anyway). The targeted efforts by Anonymous seem much better.
Keep in mind the lesson of Tahrir Square. Mubarak ordered the military to fire upon the citizens, and they refused. That was the moment that Mubarak lost the game, and his power was broken.
We must win the hearts and minds of the American military and police, and they must stand with us (as happened in Madison). That won’t happen if we treat them all as the enemy.
… because they know they can get away with all of this abuse at Quantico.
Now.. just how do they happen to know that?
Bingo
We don’t need to win their hearts and minds. They work for us and we pay them. I don’t want their “service” if they become monsters who treat other citizens like dirt. I thought the inquisition was over a long time ago but we now have it back in every sense. Maybe the rack is the next thing.
First of all the laws governing civilian and military detention are codified differently. Second of all good Marines follow all lawful orders and to trash all Marines or the history of service and sacrifice they have given this country in blood, sweat and tears is unconscionable regardless of your feelings and beliefs about how Pvt. Manning is being treated. Thirdly his detention is lawful as is the conditions under which he is being detained and if you don’t like it take it up with the Commandant of the Corps and your elected representatives.
The men and woman serving in our armed forces should never be used as pawns in any ideological dispute or besmirched for performing their duty as it is lawfully given to them. I assure you that decisions about Pvt. Manning’s detention are not being made at the brig but much farther up the chain of command for reasons probably having to do with national security of which you and I are rightfully unaware. Further even if you disagree with his treatment trashing the Marine Corps while it might make you feel better does nothing to ameliorate the treatment he is receiving.
You can be sure that his overall health, nutrition, hydration and bodily needs are being carefully monitored and cared for. Regardless of how justified you might feel he was in his actions he is still guilty of some serious transgressions under the law which might have caused others to lose their lives or not based on the information leaked. It is doubtful that even he was completely aware of the entire contents of what he was leaking and the possible ramifications to this country, its allies and representatives serving overseas.
He willfully and willingly shared confidential information with unauthorized personnel and at the very least chanced harming the country he swore allegiance to knowingly and with contempt for the consequences. Now he is paying the price for his decision and he was certainly aware that choices have consequences.
I have no concern for his health knowing that it is being monitored and I have no concern for any humiliation his action may have brought down on him. He is a grown man and made a man’s choice and is reaping the consequences of that choice. Just because you may like the fact that Wiki Leaks obtained some information with which it was able to embarrass the government does not mean the one doing the leaking can be given a pass. Maybe next time the information leaked will be critical to some level of survival for some part of our government, armed services or allies.
In particular please refrain from trashing my Marine Corps and find some other more useful way to vent your frustration then denigrating the men and women who volunteered to put their lives on the line so you could exercise the freedoms they guarantee. Semper Fi!!!
During the last part of WWII and during a brief period in the Vietnam War, all Marines were not volunteers. In mid-1943 to early 1945, the 6th and 7th Marine divisions were built upon draftees. In late 1965-early 1966 the USMC took a draft of about 20,000. Other than that, all volunteers, IIRC.
Closest brig to the White House, unless there’s one in the basement.
Tell that to the Rosenburgs.
What the “Marines” are doing now is unconscionable deserving of all possible derision.
They kill human beings.
Thanks for sharing your positive outlook on torture as long as it’s done by the rules.
Peter,
I hope you see this, late as it is. I had been meaning to ask you if it is possible for church groups to come together to protest this treatment of Manning. It seems that that would be a good place to raise people’s awareness- as they won’t be hearing much of this on TV.
Tjbs; Yes marines kill people and unfortunately we live in a world where things like 9/11 still happen and human trafficking happens and children are sold into slavery. No one wishes more than I that we as a species had evolved beyond the point of human depravity, avarice, malice and greed. The fact of the matter though is we have not and most of the young Marines throughout the history of the Corp have been honorable, devoted, disciplined and willing to give their lives so that you might sit in the safety of your home and criticize them for doing their duty.
Manning’s treatment hardly rises to the level of torture in that there has been no physical abuse and I rather doubt the temperature in the brig is even cool enough to raise goose bumps much less cause hypothermia. As for his isolation he has only himself to thank and if it leads to a truthful and full confession and that help us prevent someone else from gaming the system and putting American lives at risk any physical or physic discomfort he suffers is well worth it.
I am as progressive as the next person and think one of the things sorely lacking in this country is a collective social conscience but I am also a patriot and pragmatist. If you put American lives at risk or commit acts of treason I have little sympathy for you. Dissent within the framework of our laws is almost a sacred duty but giving away classified information is treason. Sic Semper Tyrannous.
So telling the American people of secrets that were only secret from American people, but known to those to whom it was done puts American lives at risk?
And FWIW, I’ve never been to the Quantico Brig but would guess it is constructed predominantly of concrete block – I seriously doubt it is kept in a warm and toasty temperature such that it would be comfortable to someone nude.
@ DCreamer. You just made me vomit sir. But I thank you for your details. Bradley Manning is a hero of our time. Have a nice day.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but, I’ve gotta say I disagree
Your comment is full of distortions and half truths I don’t even know where to begin, and I wish I wasn’t heading out the door to address them all.
I’d only say that your attempt at using those in the Corp as a shield to make these comments is … not right. Please re-read Peter’s post and you’ll see that he’s not denigrating the men and women, but reminding them of who they should be
My Dad was a Marine. My Dad was in WWII. And I think I can say for a fact that this type of treatment is wholly antithetical to his view of conduct, and honor, and love of country, that was his Marine Corp