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It says something about the desire of the Obama Administration to try to quietly and without consequence destroy anyone who makes any challenges to their shameful mistreatment of an alleged whistleblower that they waited to make their move, not just for the usual news black hole that is a typical part of the American weekend, but for a weekend when a single global event — the ongoing catastrophes in Japan — would consume what media and public attention exists:
P.J. Crowley is abruptly stepping down as State Department spokesman under pressure from the White House, according to senior officials familiar with the matter, because of controversial comments he made about the Bradley Manning case.
Crowley will step down as early as Sunday afternoon, the officials said, because White House officials are furious about his suggestion that the Obama administration is mistreating Manning, the Army private who is being held in solitary confinement in Quantico, Virginia, under suspicion that he leaked highly classified State Department cables to the website Wikileaks.
Speaking to a small group at MIT last week, Crowley was asked about allegations that Manning is being tortured and kicked up a firestorm by answering that what is being done to Manning by Defense Department officials “is ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid.”
Geez, a new Saturday Night Massacre! How fricking Nixonian can you get? What’s next, secretly bombing Cambodia?
Bear in mind, Crowley was saying this as someone who thinks Manning should be held and put on trial for whistleblowing — erm, leaking. But he has the brains and morality to realize that if getting actual information out of Manning is a goal, torturing PFC Manning is not how you go about achieving that goal.
[Michael Whitney and Dday have more.]
158 Comments
Again, Crowley was merely trying to point out how ridiculous — not to mention immoral and downright evil — it is to expect torture to produce anything but a scrambled mind.
For this, he was made to fall on his sword.
I thought Clinton’s statement was interesting. What do you think she actually thinks of all this? I must say, that I wonder…
Note: Obama is already bombing Cambodiastan
Aka Pakistan? A-yep.
Jesus. Nothing that Crowley pointed out was out of line. He merely told the truth. I was reeling after Obama, in a press conference, stated that Manning’s treatment was “meeting standards.” Not by my book. No human should ever be treated this way. I fear for Manning in these conditions. ‘Suicide watch’ is bullshit. It is abuse.
The same night as Obama finally showed up at the Gridiron Dinner, so all the “working press” of DC were busy at the hilarious show! “A little song, a little dance, a balding spokesman down your pants!”
Mr. Former Constitutional Law Professor has been an all-around disappointment as president, but the absolute worst aspect of his presidency has been his record on civil liberties: it is at least as bad as George W. Bush’s.
beat me to it. i was already appalled he would go through with his “performance” while the world’s attention and concern is deservedly on Japan. nothing was gonna keep him from delivering gems like this (via WAPO):
FWIW, from Mike Allen at Politico (from HuffPost coverage):
And Clinton’s statement, now up at Fox (!) (but can be found through HuffPost link):
Crowley’s quick demise amplies what I stated regarding the attempts to breakdown Bradley Manning via isolation and degradation through forced nudity (emphasis added):
The Democratic Party-led administration has embraced the worst kinds of barbaric treatment, in line with its support of imperialist war and assassination policies.
If you have a shred of decency still left in your bones, and you work for this administration, you will be hung out to dry (with mealy-mouthed platitudes to send you on your way, no doubt).
If Crowley had guts, he’d ream this administration on his way out, but in the end, he will prove a company man, and go quietly into that good night, where a plum private sector or university job awaits him.
To live in this country is to fight daily feelings of moral exhaustion, to force oneself to blunt the most human feelings of sympathy and empathy for those who suffer.
To paraphrase an old revolutionary:
==duplicate==
From Mike Allen at Politico (from HuffPost coverage):
And Clinton’s statement, now up at Fox (!) (but can be found through HuffPost link):
Crowley’s quick demise amplies what I stated regarding the attempts to breakdown Bradley Manning via isolation and degradation through forced nudity (emphasis added):
The Democratic Party-led administration has embraced the worst kinds of barbaric treatment, in line with its support of imperialist war and assassination policies.
If you have a shred of decency still left in your bones, and you work for this administration, you will be hung out to dry (with mealy-mouthed platitudes to send you on your way, no doubt).
If Crowley had guts, he’d ream this administration on his way out, but in the end, he will prove a company man, and go quietly into that good night, where a plum private sector or university job awaits him.
To live in this country is to fight daily feelings of moral exhaustion, to force oneself to blunt the most human feelings of sympathy and empathy for those who suffer.
To paraphrase an old revolutionary:
Crowley is now being held naked in a cell at Quantico “for his own safety.”
Hillary? She never liked Crowley, to the point where he never traveled with her.
So he had no institutional protection. None.
Well he leaves with his honor intact. It’s their loss.
Hasn’t the US also been secretly bombing Yemen? See, our guy’s even one-upping Nixon!
Crowley knew – or should have known – the Ocheney regime would have his ass for those truthful comments, hence he should have also resigned with a dramatic splash when he made them.
As Michael Whitney says, Obama now owns, completely, the ongoing torture of Bradley Manning.
Pakistan was the nation that comes most quickly to my mind.
He was never a professor, merely a guest lecturer. There is a sizable difference in becoming a tenured professor and being asked to teach the occasional class on Constitutional law. Obama never worked for anything. He is a dabbler. He dabbled at community activism. He dabbled in Illinois politics, without ever doing the hard lifting of crafting legislation in the statehouse; merely having the ball handed off to him prior to his run for the Senate. He dabbled at being a Senator, while already setting his sights on the Presidency.
You never learn a thing, get a handle on the complexities of a thing, or become an expert if you stay at something only long enough to use it as a springboard to the next “big thing”!
Hope Mr. Crowley shows up at the planned demonstration for Manning.
don’t forget Yemen – and dog only knows what it is we are up to presently in Somalia
I agree. I just meant that our guy has 2 secret bombing locations to Nixon’s one.
sorry, didn’t see your comment when I responded to PW above :D
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/state-department-spokesman-out-after-comments-on-prisoner/?hp
Dabbling. Nice work if you can get it.
Thanks PW.
Interesting that the information about pressure from the WH came from senior officials. That suggests they are upset and don’t mind telling the media they are. expect more resignations.
Seems to me that if I were Crowley, firing me would not provide any incentive to shut up about this.
One thing I would like to note, that while Crowley called Manning’s treatment “ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid,” he did not call it “abuse”, nor “torture”.
It was a criticism from an insider. But even that will not be tolerated, not if made publicly anyway.
As the news trickles out (Hammer from NSC, shifted to State recently, is now Crowley’s replacement), it appears that the ouster of Crowley has been in the works for awhile, as he likely had already voiced his disagreements internally (torture not being “prudent and consistent with our laws and values.”) In a sense, this is Crowley’s (or a bureaucrat’s) version of going out with a bang.
Looks like Crowley got “Hammered.”
“In times of universal deceit,telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”
George Orwell
Absolutely!
Too bad that the vast majority of us are working our asses off for less pay, with no social safety net to speak of.
Crowley statements on Manning were made on Thursday, the President asked about Manning’s treatment on Friday. Crowley is canned on Sunday. Amazing, this administration seems to lack any rectitude.
The Enabler probably doesn’t even realize its an anti-war song.
Being fired is only the first thing that O can do to wreck his entire life.
The people who still have moral compasses are probably quite upset, yes.
We’ve already knew we had an Assassinator-In-Chief, so torture should come as no big surprise. The same also goes with the complete lack of transparency with healthcare reform, so we’ve got a secretive psychopathic egomaniac running the country.
I keep typing that O gets his rocks off on cruelty.
Remember Shirley Sherrod who was fired by the Obama administration because they were embarrassed…they never bothered to get her side of the story or see if the video was edited. Obama’s ego determines who stays and who gets fired.
From Jake Tapper:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/state-department-spokesman-pj-crowley-resigned-bradley-manning.html
Obama: the Black Nixon.
There’s no way in hell I’ll vote for this motherfucker again.
The cynicality of it is breathtaking. Not to mention the stupidity.
If they were smart, they would have just kept schtum and let it blow over, as the gung-ho warmongering press corps isn’t really going to stick up for Manning the alleged whistleblower even though the crime he allegedly revealed was the deliberate murder of journalists (the “Collateral Murder” video).
But now, even with the cover provided by Japan, the weekend news penumbra, and the fact that most of the DC journos were too busy guffawing at lame jokes at last night’s Gridiron dinner to notice this, their ham-fisted and blatant retribution is going to keep alive a story they want buried as deep as they hope to eventually bury Bradley Manning.
Exactly
Yea Crowley had an entire day, poor Ms. Sherrod was sacked within a few hours.
Also supplying poison gas for subduing protesters?
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/169720.html
x2
Crowley needs to stay away from open dumpsters in Newark, Delaware.
No drama Obama strikes again.
Geography’s wrong. We never were at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with Central Asia. The secret bombing (sshhhh!) is in Pakistan.
They have John Wheeler to remind them not to get too upset.
Ah, so Daley’s the dipwad!
Geez, he let his own fucking vindictiveness get in his way.
The story had already faded from the corporate press’ attention — they didn’t want to cover the story even though what Manning’s accused of is blowing the whistle on US troops’ deliberate murder of journalists, because they’re gung-ho warmongers by and large, and the Japan disasters had pretty much insured nobody in the corporate press was paying attention any more.
But nooooo. Daley had to soothe his own widdle sensitive eeeeego. Daley had to sate his desire for vengeance. And so now he’s revived the situation in the minds of the national press, just in time for Monday morning’s news cycle.
Idiot.
x3. I am tired of the frauds and hypocrites that debase our political system with their cowardice and call it “leadership.”
I was thinking the same thing. He didn’t even call it torture and the response was swift and powerful. Power and control.
Sez Obama: “The beatings will continue, until morale improves”
The White House should be furious! Not because someone gave their opinion, but at the Naval Brig.
Sheesh, and yet he can’t throw out Scalia, Alito, and Roberts. I know all of us would support him in impeachment for those three!
It’s not just about cruelty. He’s got so much blood on his hands now that, like Macbeth, he’s feeling threatened by everyone, and his only response to those threats is of violent nature.
Oh, Gawrd! I forgot Thomas. Forgive me. I try not to think of him.
See my above. Crowley will not have forgetten the John Wheeler incident. There are still plenty of open dumpsters waiting for business.
This is the worst piece of news I’ve heard since Bush left office. I distinctly remember just such an atmosphere of paranoia: Obama is going straight down the road followed by Richard Nixon.
Indeed. Add in a Daley as Obama’s chief of staff, and Crowley better watch his back.
What is apparent is that the political lines go back to both Richard Nixon and Herbert Hoover. Nixon’s foreign policy and Hoover’s economic policy.
And structurally for the same reasons. On the foreign policy side, the opposition party had destroyed itself through domestic policy catastrophe and the opposition was lackluster. On the domestic policy side, the political environment was incapable of supporting what needed to be done because of the large number of big benefactors.
I suspect that it doesn’t matter whether we vote or not. He will be re-elected. The only question is what the nature of the Congress that gets elected with him will be. Nixon in his second term had a Congress that pushed back hard. Hoover never had a second term. Do you see an FDR-like figure in the Republican party waiting in the wings? Even a Ronald Reagan-like figure? So far the current crop of GOP candidates makes W look like a frigging genius.
x4. Anyone hear Kucinich’s speach in Madison last night? He was on fire.
Good point, and now Obama is “dabbling” at being POTUS and a War Criminal.
Looks like it was Daley who pulled the Nixonian trigger:
http://my.firedoglake.com/teddysanfran/2011/03/13/bill-daley-on-pj-crowley-after-obama-presser-hes-done/
At least we know that Rahm wasn’t the villain of the piece. It was the guy who hired Rahm. Respondeat superior.
This is why the people of Madison don’t want him to show up now. He’d only be doing so to try and help himself to some of the acclaim they’ve justly earned.
Just what country might be sending Yemen poison gas for crowd control?
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/169720.html
So the other shoe drops. What the horrible events unfolding in Japan & all, I figured the Great Pretender would sack Crowley sometime this weekend. Guess Zero is becoming more & more predictable in his perfidy.
He gave African-American female, Shirley Sherrod, a few hours before sacking her *completely unfairly* (should really truly be a wrongful termination law suit), and he gave white male PJ Crowley 3 days before sacking him for merely telling the truth (and not even suggesting the Manning should just be freed). Duly noted.
No kidding.
I can’t decide what’s worse: That Bradley Manning’s being imprisoned at all, much less being tortured, for blowing the whistle on the murder of journalists — or that the journalistic community is too cowed by its gung-ho corporate owners to bother to give a rat’s ass about it.
Who does Daley report to, as in, where does the buck stop? Daley was not going rogue.
The Obama WH has moved way beyond the point where any GOOD DEMOCRAT can support it.
OBAMA IS A FRAUD!
DE-ELECT THE PRESIDENT IN 2012.
Daley is the fall guy. He was simply following orders. No one is going rogue on an issue as sensitive as this — the potential exposure of the USG false-flag op on New York City.
Is the public being conditioned to accept torture as mainstream?
This reminds me of the trend, mainstream now, to incarcerate non-violent Class D felons, for years at a time, in county jails. Begging to just get to prison somehow. Jails were initially intended to be brief holding facilities.
Manning’s extreme treatment is abusive. And the length of time he has been in these conditions is just…crazy.
Yes, it’s not just about cruelty.
There is something profoundly off about that man. And unlike W or Nixon, where it was apparent on the surface, O’s is better hidden so it’s much more dangerous.
Reply to PW (overnested comment). Did you see his speech? His words were appropriate to the occasion and were warmly received by the Madison audience.
I think these words by William Deresiewicz, a former associate professor at Yale University, explains a great deal:
From his speech on “Solitude and Leadership”
posted previously at emptywheel
p.j. crowley said:
‘…”The unauthorized disclosure of classified information is a serious crime under U.S. law,” Crowley said in a statement Sunday. “My recent comments regarding the conditions of the pre-trial detention of Private First Class Bradley Manning were intended to highlight the broader, even strategic impact of discreet actions undertaken by national security agencies every day and their impact on our global standing and leadership.
“The exercise of power in today’s challenging times and relentless media environment must be prudent and consistent with our laws and values,” Crowley said. “Given the impact of my remarks, for which I take full responsibility, I have submitted my resignation.” …”
of potentially great interest might be this cat-out-of-the-bag part of crowley’s statement:
“… [the] strategic impact of discreet actions undertaken by national security agencies every day …”
“by national security agencies” ?
who might that be?
dod is not customarily referred to as a “nat’l security agency”.
could dia, cia, nsa, or jsoc be conducting or orchestrating manning’s torture?
could the “marines” guarding manning and supervising his torture be fake marines who were agents of a “nat’l security agency”?
i have long believed that somewhere in the chain-of-command involving manning’s detention there was one or more experts in torture running the show, or at least advising.
Sherrod Brown said nothing threatening to ObamaInc., but because of her sex/color out she goes. Crowley’s remark threatens the fraud of the entire criminal entrprise. I expect him to be found in a landfill.
On book-tv this morning there was an author who argued, convincingly, that Bill Ayers wrote Dreams of my Father. After reading the negative reviews on amazon, I am less convinced, so I won’t link.
BUT regardless of the veracity of the hypothesis & how robust the analysis was or wasn’t (I’m no expert in literary textual analysis, so can easily be fooled), the one point the author made was that we know very little about O’s past. It all has been carefully crafted as an empty slate that everyone can project their own picture on. And the reality, whatever it is, is carefully hidden.
That’s how I’ve felt about this, though not everyone here agrees with that sentiment…at least they didn’t in the past, but that could change. This is being done in Virginia to a US citizen, while in the past this was done to dark skinned foreigners in foreign lands who spoke foreign languages and had a foreign religion. More and more what we’re seeing overseas is being brought here. We are becoming militarized and under permanent emergency decree, like Egypt…Egypt was/is under emergency decree for 30 years and right now we’re at least at 10 years (I don’t know if the skids go greased under Clinton versus how much was completely original by Bush).
He’s more like Cheney than W or Nixon. Remember when Obama and Cheney had that nice little chat after the inauguration? Cheney tickled Obama’s fancy when it told him about all the goodies he had in place for him.
Crowley should have known better; his comments were egregious, despite being accurate. It’s sad, but sometimes one comes to a fork in the road and has to choose. Crowley made a choice to disparage a White House policy publicly. Oops. That never goes over very well, you know? I suspect Crowley feels strongly about some of the issues surrounding the policy, and has likely expressed them privately, and in a moment of frustration, blurted out his true feelings. Not professional; but honest. And, sometimes honesty has a way of freeing you even when you didn’t plan on being freed. Crowley will be fine; he’ll get a job making more money, and he’ll survive. The issue really is, what is going on with Bradley Manning? Will he survive?
Interesting that the Obama administration took only two days to remove PJ Crowley for criticizing the mistreatment of Bradley Manning and can’t seem to find any problem with those responsible for U.S. torture.
Tear gas is poison gas under the right circumstances. It is not completely nonlethal.
There was a local doctor’s accusation that the Yemeni government was using “nerve gas” without being more specific. It would be informative to know what the medical effects are of large quantities of teargas and water/water vapor in an enclosed space, which apparently was the conditions of the attack by government troops.
It is a certainty that any crowd control gases have come from the West, if you include the US, UK, EU generally, and Russia. These nations have been the ones arming the Libyan government for decades. And no doubt the water cannons have come from these countries as well. And the rifles and much of the ammunition used in live fire.
Insecticides in high concentrations can function as nerve gases as well. The circumstances under which the report occurred point to more local and not likely highly technical sources of the poisoning if indeed it was a nerve agent.
I would find it highly unlikely that the US or other countries were providing foreign governments with nerve agents. And the fact that the Israeli media is hyperventilating about this report makes the report all the more confusing.
Nerve agents are not crowd-control weapons. If you are going to use nerve agents for suppressing a population, you might as well use anti-aircraft bullets like Muammar Gaddafi’s mercenaries did.
There is a lot about this story that does not make sense. And plays to many different and conflicting propaganda lines.
Read somewhere there is a gap in his chronology during which he was on an alleged assignment for the CIA. If true, he undoubtedly demonstrated his worth, as evidenced by where he is now.
Here’s how Rayguy demonstrated his worth (CIA blog – wiki).
Sherrod Brown is a Senator from Ohio.
Shirley Sherrod was the one who was fired. See my snark about “no drama Obama” up the thread.
Good catch with the cat-out-of-the-bag statement.
It’s been reported that Manning is the only prisoner at Quantico receiving that peculiar treatment, implying the staff there follows other, more standard procedures. There is no doubt outside “experts” are chipping in.
“Truth247 Mark D’Truth
by deviatar
Obama cannot allow the abusive treatment of Bradley Manning to continue and still claim to uphold and promote human rights around the world”
Twitter
I do think indirectly there is good news in this. By the White House actively firing Crowley, this very publicly shows that they own Manning’s treatment and are playing an active role in it. Remember back when Obama initially answered where he gave a very passive answer of “the military says he’s being treated OK,” but now that passivity has been shown to be false. Of course those on FDL already knew it was false, but this makes it clear to the general public of how actively involved Obama is in Manning’s treatment.
Excellent catch!
It could be that the Pentagon is considered a “national security agency,” but more likely, what we have is CIA in charge here.
I was channel surfing and tuned into book-tv just as the author was talking about trying to find out simple facts about O’s life, like what his SAT scores were. So as I typed above, there is something profoundly off about this guy & we aren’t close to getting to the bottom of it.
We now know his record as prez & it’s been pretty consistent, so we know he’s a neolibrul corp whore who loves bombing people.
But what the more hidden agendas might be & how his past ties in is completely up for grabs.
And his mystery past is completely consistent with his insistence that we look forward not backward.
NBC managed to report this without ever mentioning Bradley Manning is stripped naked every night and claimed it had to do with Wikileaks, not enhanced interrogation: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42059498#42059498
Shoot the messenger of truth with the biggest most damaging cannons you have.
The irony is, had the government treated Bradley Manning fairly, kindly and appropriately, none of this outrage or press attention would have occurred and it would have been far easier to railroad their charges through.
It’s worked against them on so many levels. “Stupidity” is being very kind. They are getting what they deserve.
Fire them if they tell the truth? That sounds like a good reason to draft Ed Rendell for president.
They are not really “getting” anything. It is Bradley Manning who is suffering all the consequences, and secondarily, Assange, and way down the line, government critics like Crowley.
What I don’t see are ANY candidates who represent the interests of “we the people” or even the Constitution of the United States at this point. Unless that changes, we are going to continue down this path of destroying the middle and working classes which have built this country up AND continue the assault on our liberties.
Some interesting points to ponder, eCAHN. As time goes by, one does wonder what the eff is going on w/O. Most of us here had serious questions in our heads about O before holding our noses & voting for him. Yet I think most of us were (not so much anymore) rather shocked at how O turned out to be W Bush III (or Cheney, if you will) on steroids. I didn’t have high expectations, but I certainly didn’t think O would be *this* bad.
One does wonder a bit about his background. I’ve heard the gossip/rumor about O being in the CIA, too. It *might* explain a lot. Who knows? We may never find out.
Interesting, as revealing something of Crowley’s possible motivations, from Andrew Sullivan, weighing in today:
Obama made the decision to continue the torture of a man held without charge for 6 months -
And the above is not said in the articles coming out in the press
But those articles tell us that some say PJ did not get along with Hillary – a step up from the first series of phone calls from the White House that said P. J. did not get along with Hillary’s inner circle. And somehow the White House – and those articles – forgot that P.J. was going to retire in 60 days – anyway!
But putting this on Hillary is just classic Obama ducking responsibility.
Agree w/you, Mr. Kaye. The gov’t isn’t “getting” anything. It’s Private Manning (and down the line) who is sufferning. The end. And ultimately what it means to all of us is: Look Out! This could happen to you, too.
You make a point, but in all seriousness, who’s paying attention and really cares? I don’t see almost any citizens who are even aware of this travesty, and some who are happen to be clapping & cheering and saying: right on! Not so sure that there’s going to be any “benefit” from this, although it would be nice if there was.
http://www.salon.com/news/wikileaks/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/03/13/crowley
Glenn Greenwald at Salon points out the double standard for torture. I suppose if you are rich, with political clout, such a policy would not apply.
Latest is that Manning is given a “suicide proof smock” to wear at night – since I do not know what makes boxers into suicide tools, I can not even guess what is the design of a “suicide proof smock”.
I’m not shedding any tears over PJ’s firing, I don’t like the reasons behind it, but PJ’s performance at Foggy Bottom has been shaky at best, of course the same could probably be said of Hillary too…! 8-(
Glenn Greenwald:
“Of course, it’s also the case in Barack Obama’s world that those who instituted a worldwide torture and illegal eavesdropping regime are entitled to full-scale presidential immunity, while powerless individuals who blow the whistle on high-level wrongdoing and illegality are subjected to the most aggressive campaign of prosecution and persecution the country has ever seen. So protecting those who are abusing Manning, while firing Crowley for condemning the abuse, is perfectly consistent with the President’s sense of justice.”
Actually I’m seeing this on Daily Kos now, where the firing of Crowley is being almost universally condemned and turning a lot of people off to Obama in a big way. Until Crowley was fired, Kossacks didn’t want to accept that Obama was fully aware and approved what was going on, but now that’s been shattered. DKos has long been Obama’s cheer squad. DKos has more activity than FDL and is better known and losing the DKos crowd would be a big blow, since it is the DKos types who are actively politically and give the money. It doesn’t have to be most people, just a wide enough circle and between Kos and FDL, that’s a pretty big circle. I see this as snowballing over time as now with State’s spokesperson gone, it will be discussed on the MSM.
He’s got down the war criminal part with the unaccountable drone hits and the torture cover-up, the tapes the photos.
Stepping in dog shit is what we did in the last election and it’s still stinking to high heaven.
I’ve been saying this on here for a long time and I’ll say it again…Obama isn’t covering for Bush, but rather is trying to protect himself. We’re only hearing it now with Mannning, but dollars to donuts Obama is doing all the same things Bush did. By giving Bush a pass, he’s hoping to give himself a pass…particularly by turning partisan Democrats who used to condemn this into accepting it, so there is no serious opposition at all any more.
Like with “Enhanced Interrogation,” it looks like Obama is doing the same things as Bush, just he now claims to engaging in such treatment out of benevolence for the prisoner.
It is torture.
always think R……A….T…..S…..
Another question as to why the silence from John McCain-he was a POW,also.
Torture/ Murder/ Treason
bush/ cheney/ obama… rinse in blood, repeat…
Nuremburg 2.0 is the only solution for each and every one who’s hands are covered in blood, the “guards” to the leader.
And being a good Republican,wouldn’t this have been a perfect opportunity to speak out against the manner in which the “Demoncrat” administration is handling this matter?
No, I think you’re misreading his statement. It’s diplomatspeak to be sure, but it’s diplomatspeak for a stern warning that a country that would exercise power in the media glare and fails to do so while adhering to its own laws and values does so at it’s own peril.
He’s loyal, but he’s not happy and he isn’t backing down. Like I said the other day, we’d be best off seeing if we can find more like him hidden in the administration as quickly as we can.
Don’t expect this story to go anywhere. Dylan Ratigan was the ONLY person to cover the Tapper question.
There was nothing from Cenk, which was a surprise, tweety..crickets…rachel, who is becoming an o/quisling, LOD or Ed.
There will be zero correlation of this to Manning on that or any network with even louder crickets on cnn and on faux judge noforehead has been pounding the table with none other than judith miller.
Ding. Ding. Ding.
It is easier to elect to Congress than the Presidency. All it takes is 170,000 per Congressional district. Those are the candidates to focus on (besides state legislatures and councils of state). And elected court officials.
The Presidential race at this point looks like a lost cause for progressives. Mitigating the damage requires winning the offices that can provide checks and balances.
You simply MUST read this piece by Chris Floyd:
Of Arms and the Man: War-Profiteers and Progressives Make Common …
20 hours ago
With both progressives and war-profiteering plutocrats making common cause on his behalf, the re-election of Barack Obama looks more certain all the time.Empire Burlesque – 2 related articles
Of Arms and the Man: War-Profiteers and Progressives Make Common …Mar 12, 2011 … Of Arms and the Man: War-Profiteers and Progressives Make Common Cause … And the bulk of the Obama arms bazaar is going to one of the most …
http://www.chris-floyd.com/…/2101-arms-and-the-man-war-profiteering-bolsters- obamas-re-election.html
I was onto Obama almost from the start — I voted for him in the California primary because I was sick to death of the Clintons and thought he might be a teeny weeny bit more progressive.
But I voted for Nader in the general after he flip-flopped on retroactive immunity for telcos in the NSA wiretapping scandal.
As little as I expected of him, though, he continues to astonish me with his Oscar-winning performance as a servile hack of the corporate and military-industrial establishments.
I am willing to bet cash money that the U.S. government hasn’t got the evidence to back up any of the overblown charges against PFC Manning in a fair trial. So, what are the options? An UNFAIR trial? Indefinite detention as a so-called enemy?
Now President Obama has joined former President Bush and VP Cheney as an admitted torture conspirator. What a fiasco.
I got an error message when I clicked the link. Is it just me? Hold on, will try something else.
Book Salon up with Joey Mogul and Andrea Ritchie’s Queer (In)justice: The Criminalization of LGBT People in the United States hosted by bmaz
Glenn Greenwald:
“Of course, it’s also the case in Barack Obama’s world that those who instituted a worldwide torture and illegal eavesdropping regime are entitled to full-scale presidential immunity, while powerless individuals who blow the whistle on high-level wrongdoing and illegality are subjected to the most aggressive campaign of prosecution and persecution the country has ever seen. So protecting those who are abusing Manning, while firing Crowley for condemning the abuse, is perfectly consistent with the President’s sense of justice.”
Federally prosecuting the whistle blowers while excusing the criminals should be the final straw for anybody thinking about supporting Obama in 2012. Anthony Noel at anthonynoel@suddenlink.net is forming a New Progressive Alliance to try to answer the question of where we go from here.
Was it just me, or did Bradley Manning’s father not fully express the outrage that I am feeling? I suspect that Bradley, to protect his father from worry, would try to reassure him. But no one can truly be “calm” as they are stripped nude and inspected by officers…deprived of basic hygiene…
I’ve read the CIA rumors west coast collage connection @ 22/ 26 Y.O. range.
Explains the speech where he told the CIA boys he was down with torture as long as someone told you to torture, Punk puke
It seems that Crowley was attempting to do some greater good here.
It seems that Crowley was attempting to do some greater good here, Jeff Kaye. He might want to watch his backside.
“Crowley made a choice to disparage a White House policy publicly.”
He didn’t specifically mention the White House. At the time, I thought he was criticizing the Marines, although I suspected that the WH knew what was happening at Quantico. I didn’t think Crowley knew or believed that Obama had ordered or approved the use of GITMO and rendition style torture on Manning.
Given what happened to Crowley today, I cannot help but regard his discharge as an admission of direct responsibility for Manning’s treatment by the WH, and that means Obama.
On foreign policy, it is hard to see any difference between Obama and the criminal Bush/Cheney regime. Bradley Maning has been confined to the American gulag for pre-trial torture and punishment.
Obama is 50 years old this year. The first 22 years of his life have been chronicled fairly thoroughly. That leaves 28 years to account for, seven of which have been in the national public eye. And seven years in the State Senate. Now down to accounting for 14 years. After he graduated from Columbia in 1983:
The first is self-reported (his CV for Chicago); the second is from a NY Times article.
After two years was his Chicago community organizing experience, which lasted three years. Then at age 27, he visits Europe, his paternal family, and heads for Harvard Law, graduating in 1931, age 30. At Harvard Law, interned with Sidley Austin and Hopkins & Sutter, both of which are incubators for elites: the first in international trade and the second in public policy, taxation, and transportation finance. Samuel Skinner, Chief of Staff under Poppy Bush, Commonwealth Edison CEO, and W’s Secretary of Transportation was a partner at both of those law firms.
In addition:
At Harvard Law, he got a contract to write a book on race relations in the US, which became Dreams of My Father. And then he “accepted a two-year position as Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School to work on his first book.” Now, who set up that place to park a 30-year-old whiz kid from Harvard Law? Thereafter he was a lecturer in constitutional law, which is another position to park someone who is doing other things, like registering African-American voters in 1992 through Project Vote or serving as a lawyer at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, which is far broader than its usual characterization as a civil rights and economic development law firm.
Actually, compared to most Presidents we know a lot about Obama’s past, both the actual events and the political myth.
If you want to investigate his past, there only three points of interest. And that is who his mentors at Sidley Austin and Hopkins and Sutter were, which would tell about the sort of work he performed there. Who walked him into University of Chicago Law as a lecturer straight out of Harvard Law. And what cases he worked on at Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Galland. It would seem his understanding of foreign affairs and trade were shaped at Sidley Austin, his interest in transportation policy (and possibly connections to Skinner) at both Sidley Austin and Hopkins & Sutter, his understanding of healthcare and malpractice issues from Galland himself and …
I think folks make too much of Bill Ayers being influential in any way on Obama. On education policy, they seem to be opposed in a lot of areas.
It has been interesting to me to watch how some right-wing narratives have been picked up by progressives purely because they attack Obama. There are enough progressive reasons for attack without having to resort to sources that likely are fabricated from whole cloth.
I don’t think the political myth has been constructed as an empty slate; it reflects some fairly definite values. People in power in order to get into power can be at their core very complex, inconsistent, and self-deceiving. Where the divergence was is between the candidate and the platform–and the platform was very specific. And nominally, all Democrats accepted the platform–which if it ever were true would be the first time in history.
What I think happened was that most progressives thought that Obama would not let the crisis that propelled him into office go to waste–that there would be a rapid restoration of sanity. That was counter to Obama’s political instincts, which are to be very cautious and to allow some drift. He sought a strong team of experienced hands and got them. However the bench for experience in Democratic administrations extended to the Clinton administration. And those choices have had consequences primarily because Obama has been a pretty hands-off President when it comes to his Cabinet–a trait he shares with Ronald Reagan.
But he has been quick to prevent public second-guessing from appointees. Whether it is Stanley McChrystal or PJ Crowley, you will not use the media to force a decision. At least not with attribution.
One wonders the agenda of the person who reported Crowley’s remarks at MIT. If it was to get rid of Crowley, they succeeded. If it was to change the treatment of Manning, they failed.
Irrespective of his performance, about which I doubt that we have any accurate information given that they will now have to denigrate his work since he had the courage to speak up on a moral issue. He’s in a league of his own – a true profile in courage and decency, something that is in short supply at Foggy Bottom.
Here’s the video of Dennis in Madison last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiNIWCP5hck
Dunno about you, but this is for me a bit too much, I see this as Obama’s final ‘Bush III” moment – if staying ‘on message’ is more important than staying within the law, well, that’s what I spent a number of years complaining about and don’t give a damn about which party’s doing it, wrong is wrong dammit. Obama, you need a primary opponent in 2012.
“Now President Obama has joined former President Bush and VP Cheney as an admitted torture conspirator. What a fiasco.”
Give the man (or lady, as the case may be) a kewpie doll.
“Obama, you need a primary opponent in 2012″
Yes yes yes
The ‘smock’ has bothered me as another example of a new degradation. A ‘smock’ is a dress or, I suppose in this case, a nightgown. A girly-girl garment. In the extremely macho military world, where basic training (and after) is full of calling recruits/soldiers ‘girly-girl’ names as a way of shaming them.
As far as ‘suicide prevention’, well, you could hang yourself with a smock more easily that with boxer/briefs.
So is the smock just another shaming treatment — ‘Okay, we can’t make you be naked without blowback, so we’ll make you dress like girl?’
dissent is not permitted in the Obama WH.
“It’s all rosy, don’tcha know.” Mustn’t acknowledge any shortcomings…
Dysfunctional WH.
Can anyone explain to me what a “suicide gown” is? And while we’re on it, I’ll bet we don’t know for sure what the full scope of his torture is.
I’ve read all the comments to this post, up to this point. While I am reading, new posts are added.
Is there a way to read only the posts that have been added since I started?
Or do I have to reread ALL the posts over again to find the new ones ?
I have not found a better way, but I am very new to Firedoglake. The bloggers upstairs have numbered comments, though, with links to related text.
This format is tedious — I like the numbered one better.
When I post in a thread with this format, I try to note the number of posts already up, so I have a sense of how far down I need to scroll. I also try to note posts adjoining mine, to use as landmarks.
A gaffe is when an official speaks the truth.
Morally, Shinseki’s appointment marks the vindication of a man who was punished for telling the truth in the run-up to the Iraq war.
As the Army’s chief of staff, Shinseki famously told Congress in February 2003 that “several hundred thousand soldiers” would be needed to stabilize Iraq. A month before the Iraq invasion, he predicted that because of “ethnic tensions that could lead to other problems,” it would take “a significant ground force presence to maintain a safe and secure environment.”
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Shinseki was quickly rebuked by then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz for being “way off the mark.” Vice President Cheney told Tim Russert on “Meet the Press” a few weeks later that “to suggest that we need several hundred thousand troops there after military operations cease, after the conflict ends, I don’t think is accurate. I think that’s an overstatement.” It was no overstatement.
In naming Shinseki to lead the Department of Veterans Affairs, Obama implicitly set a high standard for himself by declaring that truth-tellers and dissenters would be welcome in his administration.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/08/AR2008120803293.html
New to Twitter and Facebook, but linked this article on Facebook. Here is a comment:
“Doug Milliken And with the resuming of Gitmo trials, it’s pretty much officially Bush’s Third Term”
Having watched many, many hours of State ME Updates with PJ, I’m not impressed with him one iota…! I do agree that this one action is very noble of him, but, his kharma is still outta whack…! 8-(
bmaz has a great post up at Emptywheel.
Despicable as Bush was, he never pretended to be anything other than what he was. Obama? Not so much.
Point Bush.
Bill Ayers’ father, Thomas G. Ayers.
tarheeldem @1:47pm
“…one wonders the agenda of the person who reported crowley’s remarks at mit…”
wonder no more, tarheeldem.
see glenn greenwald for the explanation:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/10/amnesty/index.html
[...UPDATE [Fri.]: According to Philippa Thomas — a long-time British journalist and current Nieman Journalism Fellow at Harvard — State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley was speaking to a small audience of 20 people (including Thomas) at MIT regarding social media, and the following occurred:
And then, inevitably, one young man said he wanted to address “the elephant in the room”. What did Crowley think, he asked, about Wikileaks? About the United States, in his words, “torturing a prisoner in a military brig”? Crowley didn’t stop to think. What’s being done to Bradley Manning by my colleagues at the Department of Defense “is ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid” . . .
Thomas noted that Crowley added that Manning deserves to be in prison, but as she puts it: “But still, he’d said it. And the fact he felt strongly enough to say it seems to me an extraordinary insight into the tensions within the administration over Wikileaks.” She adds: “A few minutes later, I had a chance to ask a question. ‘Are you on the record?’ I would not be writing this if he’d said no. There was an uncomfortable pause. ‘Sure’.” If she’s reporting that accurately — and she’s obviously a credible journalist — then that’s quite extraordinary.
UPDATE II [Fri.]: A second person who was at the meeting with Crowley — Chuck Toporek — confirms Thomas’ account and writes:
During the Q&A, Mr. Crowley stated that he felt Bradley Manning, who has been in military custody since May 2010 for his connection to WikiLeaks, is being “mistreated” while in custody.
When Mr. Crowley said that, people in the room applauded. He was later asked by a BBC reporter in the room if everything he said today was “on the record,” to which he said yes. . . . So there you have it. A high-placed individual within the U.S. State Department believes Bradley Manning is being mistreated. On the record. In public.
I have often written that if the State Department were to apply the human rights standards it uses to condemn other nations to its own government, it would have to frequently condemn the U.S. Bizarrely, that is actually happening here.
UPDATE III: Ethan Zuckerman of Harvard’s Berkman Center for Internet and Society attended the talk with Crowley and posted a rough transcript of the Q-and-A session, which includes this:
Charlie deTar: There’s an elephant in the room during this discussion: Wikileaks. The US government is torturing a whistleblower in prison right now. How do we resolve a conversation about the future of new media in diplomacy with the government’s actions regarding Wikileaks?
Crowley: I spent 26 years in the air force. What is happening to Manning is ridiculous, counterproductive and stupid, and I don’t know why the DoD is doing it.
That certainly appears to settle the matter of confirmation. What’s striking is that the questioner asserted that Manning was being “tortured” and Crowely did nothing to contest that, but instead emphatically condemned the treatment. I don’t recall an instance where one administration official so harshly and publicly criticized the conduct of the administration on such a high-profile matter. I can only speculate that this was not a planned statement but rather an unplanned outburst from Crowley at a small gathering, but the fact that he said it at all is really quite remarkable, commendable, and, I hope, ultimately helpful.
UPDATE IV: Crowley now confirms the accuracy of these reports, but tells Foreign Policy’s Josh Rogin: “What I said was my personal opinion. It does not reflect an official USG policy position. I defer to the Department of Defense regarding the treatment of Bradley Manning.” This seems to be one of those exceedingly rare moments when a high-level administration official unintentionally spoke with candor and conviction about the repellent acts of the government of which he is a part…. ]
question #1. can usgov declare anyone who reads wikileaks an enemy?
question #2. is petraeus the american pinochet?
carry on…
I voted for Obama and I hope the Demos come up with a different candidate in 2012. I would not vote for Obama again if he were running against a convicted child molester. We were totally swindled by that liar. As far as Manning is concerned he is being held in a Marine brig. The Marines that were called “The Few, The Proud” The few who torture fellow Americans ??
Thanks for the detailed information. It looks like for once the motive actually was journalism.
It also points up what Julian Assange among others has been arguing. Governments will either become transparent or transparency will be forced on them.
Say more. There are too many connections between Thomas Ayers and the Chicago elite law firms to figure out what you are pointing out. And I do not know what the elder Ayers’s relationship was with his son Bill during the 1990s and 2000s.
tarheeldem@6:47
i like this comment:
“…It also points up what Julian Assange among others has been arguing. Governments will either become transparent or transparency will be forced on them…”
it relates to a greenwald comment about a juan coles comment (if memory serves)
to the effect that the only unbiased journalism, or more precisely, the only journalism that will not be intertwined with national gov’ts,
is supra-national journalism of the sort wikileaks practices.
i would personally add al-jezzara to that list.
i don’t know if “anonymous” belongs there or not,
but i await their tomorrow’s BOAmerica revelations with deep interest.
the “news” model brewing is of many news sources which are too many for individual gov’ts to control.
i’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Trying to convince people that he was born in the US.
Question #1: Why does the Democratic Party support torturing & covering it up?
Question #2: How can anyone at FDL still be a Democrat?
“If you’re going to tell people the truth, be funny or they’ll kill you.”
Billy Wilder
I agree. I plan to vote for whatever is running again Obama, barf bag in hand. Obama has caused more damage to the Democratic Party and to the Liberal/Progressives than any Right wing Fascist could. He has neutered them and pushed the Democrats further to supplement the Republicans as the new “sane” corporatist party. To hell with him.
So…. when do we start bombing Cambodia ?
(I kinda liked Tricky. What’s one little country more or less ?)
That is where I am.
After the telecom immunity thing, I knew I couldn’t support the big Zero. But the scumbag never ceases to amaze me with how low he will go.
Yeah, that link is kind of mangled. It either got pasted in wrong, or somehow mangled by the way it is handled by this site.
You can get it by going to the base site and scrolling down a bit. http://www.chris-floyd.com
I was able to get the full link myself, and I’ll post it here (it’s long and we’ll see if my version also gets screwed up).
http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2101-arms-and-the-man-war-profiteering-bolsters-obamas-re-election.html
And if that doesn’t work, maybe this version of the link will work:
Alternate Link Method