If a Republican balanced the budget by cutting heating subsidies for the poor in harsh winters rather than fossil fuel subsidies for the world’s most profitable corporations, liberals would scream. When Barack Obama does it, it’s “shared sacrifice.”
If a Republican implemented “universal health care” but left over 30 million people uninsured, and the people who are “insured” aren’t guaranteed to receive healthcare because their plan is still with a private company that profits and thrives off of denying sick people care they need, liberals would pitch a fit. When Barack Obama does it, it’s “a step in the right direction.”
If a Republican proclaimed an “end” to a war while leaving over 50,000 troops in the country, liberals would laugh hysterically and ask if anybody was really falling for such a ploy. When Barack Obama does it, he’s “keeping his promise to end the war.”
If a Republican appointed a Secretary of Education who said Hurricane Katrina was “the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans” because it gave powerful special interests an opportunity to swoop in and “improve” the city’s failing schools by privatizing them, thus turning a profit from childrens’ education without them showing any academic improvement years later, liberals would not rest until either that Secretary of Education resigned or everybody in the country knew about it. When Barack Obama does it, he’s “getting us away from No Child Left Behind.”
If a Republican lowered revenues for Social Security via a payroll tax cut and subsequently declared Social Security revenues were in crisis, which would lead to changes in the program that would drastically impact the quality of life for “future seniors” so as to not impact the current voting bloc, liberals would make it a point to educate today’s young people so they’d know the decades-old promise of economic security in their twilight years was in jeopardy. When Barack Obama does it, he’s “providing tax relief and dealing with long-standing problems with our entitlement system.”
If a Republican stumped for a “universal health care” bill that, with the exception of tort reform and the ability to sell insurance across state lines, was precisely what the private insurance industry asked for shortly after the President was elected in November, with some language in the bill being word-for-word identical to what industry lobbyists had suggested, liberals would pitch fits about how this wasn’t what real, universal health care looked like. When Barack Obama does it, it’s “a necessity” because he wouldn’t be able to pass a bill without industry support, much like how their opposition stopped a different President four decades earlier from passing Medicare.
If a Republican pushed for an energy solution that involved almost entirely fossil fuels, including the mythical “clean coal” and natural gas, extracted via blasting a propiertary toxic liquid that includes rocket fuel into the Earth, polluting our water and land and air in the process it takes to perform the practice called “fracking” while approving a pipeline that would run from Canada to Texas to extract tar sands that hundreds of reputable scientists said could and probably would cause innumerable different environmental disasters, liberals would be begging for our leaders to change course so their children’s future doesn’t involve gas masks and/or oxygen tanks as a daily necessity for survival. When Barack Obama does it, The League of Conservation Voters, Earthjustice, and the Sierra Club endorse him.
If a Republican publicly insisted that, as a way to alleviate the pain of dealing with private health insurance companies, there would be a public and non-profit public health care option citizens could choose to buy into, when weeks earlier he had made a deal with private hospital industry lobbyists that no such option would actually appear in any health care reform efforts, liberals would be infuriated at the denial of a chance to enter into a health care plan whose primary objective would be to care for sick people rather than profit off of them, and at the fact they were straight-up lied to so their support could be garnered for a bill that was already an industry gift. When Barack Obama does it, it’s alright because the bill can be “improved on in the future.”
If a Republican allowed tens of thousands of gallons of oil to gush into the ocean just shy of 3 months straight while allowing the company responsible for the mess to repeatedly try and fail to clean it up without sending in scientists who know what they’re doing to advise on how to resolve the problem as quickly as possible, liberals would point fingers at how the Federal government was acquieising to private interests even when the health of the public and environment was at stake, as well as the economic security of anybody who lived near and relied on the ocean for their livelihood. When Barack Obama does it, it’s alright since he appeared unhappy about the whole situation and said some words and made BP set aside some money to compensate some people to some degree.
If a Republican president presided over the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression, caused by Wall Street bankers making bets with investors money, causing immeasurable loss for the lower class and middle class and wiping out untold pensions, and not only failed to prosecute even one individual responsible, but bailed out the firms who bankrupted so many – with a stern warning that the bailout bills would be vetoed if any restrictions were placed on how the money could be used, allowing for the bailout money to be used as bonuses – liberals would roar for impeachment. When Barack Obama does it, there’s dead silence, but raucous applause for a “financial regulation” bill that leaves open the avenues to every single mechanism that allowed the banks to cause the crisis the first two times – once almost a hundred years ago, and again right before he took office.
If a Republican were to make it so that women who wanted abortion coverage in their health insurance plans had to make two separate payments for health insurance each month – one for the normal coverage, and another small fee for the abortion coverage – liberals would rightfully insist in that this is another way to further marginalize abortion access. When Barack Obama does it as a way to pass health care reform, he’s endorsed by NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and Emily’s List.
If a Republican touted an education plan that touted “school choices” and “accountable teachers” but actually used No Child Left Behind standards as an excuse to close underfunded public schools and privatize them, liberals would be in shock at how it effectively transformed our childrens’ education into a commodity and broke teachers’ unions. When Barack Obama does it, he’s “working with communities to offer better education choices” which, stastically, overwhelmingly have either similar or worse educational outcomes than traditional public schools.
If a Republican had as part of their platform that they’d allow for drug reimportation, something practiced by most other countries in the world which would allow for drastically reduced prescription drug costs, but then when a Senator manages to whip up the votes to pass this promise the White House brings pressure down on some vulnerable legislators and gets them to withdraw support – and the Senator announces his retirement two weeks later – liberals would instantly connect the dots and chastise the President for using the bully pulpit to deny a public good while having his strings pulled by the hideously wealthy pharmaceutical industry. When Barack Obama does it, Democrats were too busy urging people to support the insurance-industry written healthcare reform bill to notice.
If a Republican asked Congress to pass into law something allowing for a commission to convene on how to approach the deficit, but they voted against it and the President commissioned one anyway, liberals would decry the abuse of power. When Barack Obama does it, it was a necessity because there’s no way he could have gotten that with all those obstructionist Republicans.
If a Republican said his opinion on gay marriage was “evolving” but that he was not in favor of it overall, only explicitly stating his support after his Vice President accidentally revealed his support in an interview to shore up votes for an election season, liberals would be happy at the progress but openly scoff at the lack of true conviction and appeal for votes. When Barack Obama does it, the reaction was so wildly positive you’d think he had found a loophole that allowed for gay marriage in every state.
If a Republican finger-wagged about the negative impacts of NAFTA and similar free-trade agreements that cost America countless thousands of jobs, but then entered into more free trade agreements with Asia, liberals would at bare minimum ask for Fair Trade rather than free trade. When Barack Obama does it, it’s ok because maybe it’ll lower the prices on some goods that were previously affordable.
If a Republican then hand-picked the deficit commission and stacked it with people who have explicitly stated they would cut Social Security and Medicare while lowering tax rates for the wealthy as part of their solution for the deficit, including one who described Social Security as a “milk cow with 310 million tits,” liberals would urge everybody to not heed the committee’s suggestions and be disgusted at the vulgarity. When Barack Obama explicitly states that this committee’s report will be the basis of his second-term “grand bargain” for dealing with the deficit, and that will be his focus rather than unemployment, rather than hold him accountable, liberals point and huff something about Mitt Romney, someone who they were never going to vote for anyway.
A vote for Barack Obama is a vote for the Democratic party. It’s not a vote for Democratic principles, as if you were to look at the party’s 2008 platform and compare it with the actions over the last 4 years, you’d find little if any consistency, and nothing on the huge issues that matter the most. Barack Obama has made spending cuts and deficit reduction a priority, rather than public spending to create jobs or extending unemployment benefits for those who were unable to find work and hit their lifetime limit on benefits after the arbitrary 99-weeks. The Supreme Court is already lost, and Elena Kagan has already voted to restrict reproductive rights. A vote for Barack Obama is a vote for conservative policies with a more believable smile, and normalizing the blaming of the poor and downtrodden for our economic woes. A vote for Barack Obama cements a media landscape making the American public believe it has a communist at worst, far-left liberal at best set of policies in place, and that they’re what’s failing us rather than over-reliance on a free market whose invisible hand is taking money from your pockets and transferring it to those of the most wealthy at a rapid rate. The American political center will continue to rocket rightward – if the fact that 1990s Republicans are further left than today’s Democrats makes you shudder, think about how Obama’s failing conservative policies will be thought to have failed because they were too liberal. Consider what might happen if we just called a spade a spade: a conservative President for conservative policies.
Liberals only seem to care about the environment, economic justice, and powerful private interests prevailing over the people when a Republican is in office. So let’s make them care again, while you get to vote your conscience.
A ranked list of desirable things to happen on election day would look something like this:
1. You vote for Jill Stein, Rocky Anderson, Peta Lindsay, or Stewart Alexander
2. You vote for another third party
3. You don’t vote
4. You vote for Mitt Romney
5. On the way to your polling location in a swing state with fracking, fumes from a nearby well make you dizzy and confused and you think you already voted
6. You vote for Barack Obama
Update: The post previously erroneously stated Greenpeace endorsed Obama. They didn’t, it was The League of Conservation Voters I was thinking of and I should have realized and caught that.



255 Comments

Impressive first diary entry, pop! My thoughts – your words…..
BTW, I voted for Stewart Alexander via absentee ballot last week.
Highly rec’d, of course!
Ooops, sorry – where are my manners?
Welcome to FDL – love your screen name!
Recommended.
Here’s a voter’s guide to just SOME of the MANY options that BOTH major parties tell us WE DON’T HAVE: A Voter’s Guide for Electoral Activists
Thanks for sharing, AN!
Great piece, POP.
I’m sure this will earn me much scorn here on FDL, but I’m not a robot.. I voted for Romney/Ryan this morning, and then Green or Dem in all of the other races.
I’d rather see Romney win than for Obama to win and keep calling himself a progressive – all that does is hurt us, not help us. I’d rather Romney win and take the GOP down in flames over the next 4 years than to let Obama do the same to us.
Comprehensive point to point review pop — easily worthy of 5 stars for completeness and excellent run down pop — recommended
Barack Obama is the best R POTUS since Ronald Reagan was selling Morning In America while setting up Americans for where we are some thirty years later. Indeed Barack Obama holds Ronald Reagan in high regard — what kind of a Democrat would do/does that?
Expect the IOKIYAAD apologists to step up to defend Barack Obama and expect the by now so often repeated Obama apologia to be once again paraded. Barack Obama is a damn fine R POTUS who has been allowed to sell himself as a D. As pop plainly lays it out if what Obama has done or does was being done by a R POTUS who was telling us about being a R instead of hiding as a DINO pop gets it closer to how that would be turning out. G.W.Bush and R.B.Cheney are walking free of legal or political consequences because of Barack Obama has done or chose to not do. Simple fact and truth.
It is being heavily suggested Barack Obama will be re-elected as POTUS this week. Too bad about that. What has been interesting to see and watch is how stalwart Obama backers have moved back and forth across the gameboard opposing Don’t Vote for either R or D ideas while so often wanting to steer the action back to voting for Obama. Now to learn after they think Obama will win no matter what they are voting 3rd party. What a sham that is. It seems this is much about positioning oneself post 2012 election. Or is/was this all about political integrity? Calling BS.
Americans who vote for Barack Obama again will have the next four years to see how that works and worked out. It is not difficult to surmise where Barack Obama intends to go as we plod towards 2016. Too bad about Barack Obama. Really — too bad.
I crossed the voting for the lesser of two evils rubicon a long time ago but Obama fooled me in 2008. I saw a post on Huffington (I can’t find the link) Obama will reach out to GOP within in days of his relection to start working on his grand bargain asap. Could Romney really be any worse?
Also watched the 3rd party debate last night…what a great change! Even Thom Hartmann did a good job! I don;t agree with Gary Johnson on many things but at least the guy got to be interviewed…I thought Jill was fine.
Greenpeace does not endorse political candidates according to their web site. Unless you have proof to the contrary? Otherwise great diary!
Thanks, John
Excellent piece, principlesoverparty. I’ve been saying the same thing for two years–and either getting shrieked at or ignored–but you say it much more eloquently! Recommended.
I almost didn’t even read your post because I’m so fed up with this charade I don’t even want to listen to somebody whose argument I agree with.
But I clicked anyway and now I have to thank you for your most excellent diary. You said it so well I want you to know I’m copying it to print out and give to almost everyone I’ve talked politics with over the last few weeks.
It wraps up and adds to what I been saying and they won’t have to endure hearing my passionate lecture/plea/comments, they can just read.
The problem is that the programming has been so deeply ingrained in everybody’s psyche that the truth of what you’re saying will only circle around in their heads for a minute or two and then the stream of idiotic election fervor will wash it all away. Tomorrow, a neocon tool will again be declared the next presididn’t of the US and almost everyone will walk away committed to the legitimacy of the result. Man I’m depressed.
rec’d
You can’t say Obama’s done nothing the last 4 years.
He got someone else to pay for your daughters abortion.
Abortions are wonderful, alan1tx!
Gosh dang it, if I had only read this earlier, I would have voted for Stein rather than Obama.
You folks should have written a few diaries about this earlier.
A very thorough summary of what it apparently now means to be a “liberal.” If Obama is re-elected we can expect the liberal excuses to continue. If Romney wins, the liberals will blame the people who voted third party, even though they voted against Romney, never questioning why Romney is able to whatever evil he does even though he doesn’t have a magic wand or 60 votes.
What the liberal surrender means for the future of our country, who can say?
I’m voting for Jill Stein.
If voting really made a difference, it would be illegal.
First, welcome to the Lake. Second, for myself, I would have appreciated this had it been posted weeks ago. Being posted today, by a first time poster, lessens the message for me. The effort put into the content has me questioning the motives of the post because of the timing and being a first time poster on this election day– which makes me disappointed because there is some valid content. Personally, I do not like the, “If a Republican…” writing element because it makes the points being made less effective for me. Consequently, as a reader, this piece reads more as a “hit piece” for me than an effort to make sound points despite the great points being made.
This is just how my first reading of the post impacted me. Nonetheless, thank you for taking the time to think about the concerns you addressed.
I did the same in Florida.
Hey, thanks for sharing and great to hear that you also had the courage to do so in one of those “Key Battleground States”!
I just posted that on my FB page – I wonder how many will “unfriend” me? LOL
Cheers, Comrade!
Hi “tyrell“j
“I’d rather see Romney win than for Obama to win”
That’s ’cause you’re a republican shill sweetie….
“I voted for Romney/Ryan this morning” – that I can believe
This however, “and then Green or Dem in all of the other races” not so much..
but I understand some people will do anything for money…and mittens, the kochs and turd blossom have lots to spread around
I am actually registered as Socialist Party USA, but this is the first time I have been able to vote for a candidate. In 2010 I wrote in “public option” for all the federal races, and this time I wrote in “single payer” for US Senate and HOR (SP USA didn’t have anyone on the ballot in those races).
Yeah, but it’s all ok because Obama says he’s for gay marriage.
You make many valid points . now if you changed “If a Republican ..” to “When a Republican ..” you would have a lot more credibility .. let’s face it .. your country and its “electoral” system is as fracked as mid-west natural gas deposit .. deciding whether to paint the deck chairs blue or red while the ship takes on water ..
I’m registered as SPUSA also and this is the second time I’ve had the pleasure for voting for a candidate – 2010 had Dan La Botz running for SPUSA for US Senator in Ohio – he actually got a little over 25,000 votes!
You wrote in “public option” and “single payer” on your ballot??? Oh, I love it!
LOL, ain’t THAT the truth!
all the dem prez candidates that come out of nowhere especially the south-carter,clinton ,obama are sellouts. as long as you vote for the lesser of 2 evils that is what you will get. dems cant even be bothered fixing the countries voting systems after 2000 and 2004. the fix is in.
Huzzah!!
All the paid republican shills are out in full force today
and posting at FDL …. (why is that not a surprise)
One last thing, be sure to collect your paychecks before tomorrow kids…
mittens pays his employees like he pays his taxes
I voted green party for President.
I have been tuned out of this site for a while because anger and discontent doesn’t make me a better worker/husband/father.
Told my niece last night that it isn’t all the Republican’s fault. There was a D majority in Congress for two years, but feckless Harry Reid let them just /say/ they were going to filibuster and never actually made them do it.
‘Impeachment is off the table’ Nancy put another dagger in my enthusiasm.
And then there’s Barry. FISA, drone strikes, and read the entire post above.
Democrats are not the solution.
Klynn, I see your comments in nearly every thread. I echo the feelings of this diary. It’s Bush’s third term. But the push back is not there.
Writing in Public Option was a big deal (very frequently stated) here at The Lake prior to 2010 election. It was a big betrayal by the Prez.
cjc
OMG!! It’s STEWART Alexander?
I thought I was voting for George Costanza.
There’s a difference between criticizing the Republican policies of a supposedly Democratic President, and being a Republican shill.
good summary.
black reagan is the worst thing that could have
happened to the so-called left.
dog help us.
It is the only way to say what I want. I definitely don’t want what the LOTE legacy party is selling.
troll.
I see that tired old meme, common on HP for the first few years of Obomba sell-outs, that anyone opposed to Obomba must be a republican shill, still lives on here at FDL. After, Obomba has been such a powerful advocate for working class, the majority of the population, in his dealings with the banks and wall street hucksters, appointing a completely different breed of managers to his cabinets departments (Geithner- now there is a great advocate for consmer rights). Plus his forceful advocacy for affordable health care, his support for union organizing rights (e.g. the EFCA) how can anyone not like him? Not to mention his enforcement of the US Constitution regarding the right to a speedy trial etc? How can anyone not like him?
x2
Indeed.
“When I said I would never vote for Bush because his foreign policy deliberately kills innocent people, they called me a good Democrat. When I said I would never vote for Obama for the same reason, they called me an evil Republican”. –mojada, FDL user.
Superb post. Don’t mind the Democratic apologists; on FDL they are in the minority and don’t like it, and therefore have a tendency to throw tantrums.
I suspect trust funds are somewhere around most of them.
Recc’d.
X2
“It is impossible for a coward to be moral” Gandhi
Yes, we’re all working for the Republican Party. You’re so insightful! In fact, they ought to award you a Nobel Prize for insight, just like they awarded Barack Obama a Nobel Peace Prize while he expanded Dick Cheney’s War on the World.
Arrogance, ignorance, and snark all in one package. How efficient of you! Just as efficient as Obama will be in dismantling the old Democratic safety nets you no doubt hold so dear.
Precisely the kind of willful, sneering idiocy that has no place here.
Bravo and welcome. I hope you don’t mind but I had to share this.
Recommended
Wonderful first post, principlesoverparty! (And excellent username.) You must be doing something right if a few of T Borg‘s bots have come here to sputter about it.
The sad thing is, though, that as comprehensive as your list seems, it actually misses many of my major complaints with Obama. You didn’t cover, for example:
• The assassinations of Anwar al-Awlaki, Samir Khan, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki (16 forever…), the planned assassination of other American citizens (the NYT puff piece on “Terror Tuesdays” in May noted that at least one of the other candidates was an American citizen, and Obama’s assertion that he has the right to kill any American, anywhere, anytime, without a conviction, without a trial, without an indictment, without even presenting any evidence for public consideration, without even articulating a reason. That is just insanely beyond the pale of what passes for a rational government in a so-called democracy.
• The acceptance and codification of the worst Bush-era excesses, the reneging on the promise to close Guantanamo, the transformation of Bagram AFB into the new Guantanamo (or is it the new Abu Ghraib?), the expansion of drone warfare against civilians into over a dozen countries, and the NDAA allowing for mass incarceration of Americans.
• The war on whistile-blowers and on Wikileaks, and the ongoing torture of an American serviceperson, Bradley Manning. (As so well-documented by Kevin Gosztola.)
• The explosion of foreclosure fraud (on his watch, not Bush’s) and Obams’s consequent granting of the bankers effective immunity from prosecution when the state AGs looked to be actually wanting to prosecute people. (But don’t worry, if you can prove the bankers stole your home with forged documents and robo-signings, and you can jump through every hoop Obama set up, you might be eligible to receive as much as $2000! You can totally replace your home for $2000…if you’re named “Barbie”. Or maybe “Fido”.)
Remember when we were praising Eric Schneiderman, Kamala Harris, Cortez Masto, etc., for refusing to sign on to Obama’s “fifty-state agreement” which was obviously a “Get Out of Jail Free” card for the banks? How did that work out, in the end? Funny how Obama, so “helpless” in the face of supposed Republican obstuctionism, is able to work deals and get what he wants when it’s in favor of the banks and against American citizens…
• Allowing for greater bank consolidation than under Bush, greater growth in income inequality than under Bush, a drop in the median income over the last four years, and everything else Matt Stoller wrote about at Salon recently.
• Becoming the first American President since the current definition of “unemployment” was adopted in 1947 to preside over more than two years’ worth of 8% or greater unemployment (Obama looks a lock for FOUR years above that figure), presiding over a frankly-suspicious drop in the workforce/population ratio statistics that make the unemployment figures less than they would be if 66% of the 18-64 population was still considered “workforce” rather than the current 64% (or are we in the 63s by now?) and not even attempting to extend federal unemployment benefits at year-end. (He still has time to change his mind, of course, but not having even put it on the table doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.)
Federal UI benefits have never not been offered with unemployment at 7.2% or higher. Not under Reagan or Bush or Bush. Not until Obama.
• Some oldies-but-goodies like making the “stimulus” about 40% as large as economists said it needed to be, never fighting for a second bill on any scale approaching the first, and wasting most of the “stimu-Less” on tax cuts (which created so many jobs under Bush, right?) and “shovel-ready projects” (nope, no new permanent structure to keep Americans employed, like the way FDR got Jack Reagan [Ron's dad] job after job in the Depression)…just a few bucks thrown at projects that were already in the pipeline but no new commitments. Wouldn’t want to repair our crumbling infrastructure or anything.
• No effort on EFCA (let workers organize? Heavens!), never mind “putting on [his] comfortable shoes” and walking with the protestors in Wisconsin.
Of course, Obama’s not big on protest, as his consulting with “Democratic” mayors across the country on how to beat the crap out of Occupy protesters attests. (The LAPD’s “finest hour”, Antonio Vile-araigosa called it…)
And I could go on. (Your section on the BP spill doesn’t discuss the toxic, banned-in-Britain, dispersant use to hide [but not clean] the spill, the White House working with BP to suppress the actual data on the spill [including putting out knowingly-false data, as detailed by the independent commission] and having BP repay its wrist-slap fine out of future Gulf drilling profits, which basically guarantees their permanent presence there, for example.)
But I don’t cite the exceptions to criticize your work, far from it…I simply note the enormity of Obama’s perfidy, the vast mountain of corruption, betrayal and outright evil that this PoTUS (Piece of Thoroughly Unrepentant Shit), Prostitute Obama represents.
I’m sure someone else could go on about what *I* have left out. He’s just that much of a piece of shit. Off to vote for Stewart Alexander, and NO Democrats, ever again. (Any party that endorses Obama is one I can’t support.)
In the words of a wonderfully high-school revenge speech (delivered by a Survivor contestant as she was casting her vote to eliminate a fellow player, years ago): “You lied to me and betrayed me. You screwed me. Now screw you.”
Screw you, “Barack”.
(Yes, I’ve hated the first-name-only, we’re-like-family Obama ads that have infested this site recently. Show a little class, people. You’re not my friend, I’m not your friend. You don’t even know me, “Michelle”. Sheesh. [/semi-OT rant].)
And again, welcome.
Very recommended and thank you !
Voted Jill Stein because I believe that the Greens have the best chance of clearing the 5% threshold and receiving matching federal funding .
Thank you. Excellent diary. I too wish you’d somehow been able to get it up a few days/weeks ago.
I live in a “blue” state, so my not voting for Obama can’t be characterized as “electing Romney.” I too am amazed at the “Good Democrats” who can’t look at Obama’s POLICIES and ACTIONS and see that if Bush or McCain or Romney or Cheney were pursuing them, Dems would be screaming.
The family of a child murdered by a drone doesn’t know or care whether a “Dem” or “Repub” Commander in Chief gave the order. They only know that the drone came from the US.
I’m wondering how long it will take before we can characterize folks as “good Americans,” like the “good Germans” who stood by and allowed their country to murder. I don’t think the evil excused and ignored by the “good Americans” has to be as bad as the Holocaust to qualify.
Really? Someone disagrees with you so they’re instantly a Republican shill? I’m not allowed to have my own opinion and vote how I want? I explained exactly why I voted for Romney.
If I was shilling for Romney, I’d be telling you why you should vote for him, and voting for him so he can fuck things up even more than Obama hardly qualifies as shilling.
Get bent and crawl back under your rock, and screw you if you don’t like people thinking for themselves.
Oddly enough, every single comment that Blu has ever written has been to call someone else a Republican shill or a troll if they aren’t blowing Obama. Someone has issues.
Impressive list. Very comprehensive. And right on target on many points. Thank you.
Like some on this blog, I am forwarding this to friends and family.
Reminds me of
http://www.obamatheconservative.com
Here’s what is funny: Being advised by folks who both legitimize the status quo and apparently could not be bothered to spend any time researching the political career of Obama back in 2008—the proof is that these are many of the same folks who thought Obama would bring about health care reform for the benefit of the citizenry while his own webpage indicated otherwise—about how important voting is, and that I should vote for this guy. If voting is so important and such a weighty responsibility for the citizen, how come the folks who continue to vote for Obama were so easily fooled about who he was, who so readily accepted what he said on TeeVee as truth?
Excerpts from Michael Parenti’s chapter on “The Appearances of Heterodoxy” in his book “Power and the Powerless” that help to answer this question and the question about why criminal acts are OK if a Democrat does them:
“Most people have neither the awareness not the opportunity to construct values and models which transcend the familiar arrangements of the dominant political culture.
/
Socially acceptable vocabularies and symbols are so enshrouded with positive affects as to preclude responsiveness to competing symbols. Without the individual’s awareness, foreclosure occurs both in the symbolic environment that mediates the stimuli and in the internalized self-censoring mentality which the recipient superimposes upon his or her own perceptions.
/
Accusations of “partisanship” and “lack of objectivity” are leveled against those who challenge—but rarely against those who reinforce—ongoing social, economic, and political orientations.
/
Legitimated ideas and institutions allow for a double standard of political perception. Repressive and “extremist” actions which are treated as evidence of tyranny in other societies are accepted as necessary steps to ensure the security of one’s own.
/
The orthodox center is frequently characterized, by those who occupy it, as a democratic force fighting a war on two fronts against the extremes of right and left.
/
In most domestic conflicts and overseas interventions, the center has been more inclined to make common cause with the right against the left than oppose both with equal fervor.
/
Far from being a blameless victim when fascism emerges, the center is something of an active accomplice.
/
The function of the dominant ideology is to legitimate the ongoing social order.”
I’ll reprhase that: Right on target on the points!
GREAT post.
Stunning Post on the day of the election.
Many Democrats and Republicans are identical on this count: Tribalism. They are more concerned that their team wins than they are about the public good.
Tribalism is typically backed up by an insistence on an ideological view of the world. There is a false assumption held dear that if someone doesn’t agree with you, then they must have misunderstood you, are ignorant, stupid, or not serious. Because had they adequately understood your position there is no way they could then disagree with it. This assumption is accepted by those who can’t see past their own version of truth—or for them, The Truth. It is the mark of ideological, tribalistic thinking, not rational thinking of the sort that might be interested in democracy and the public good.
It’s a wonder he’s going to win today, unless the Repubs can screw up the vote count.
You’ve made the case as well as it can be made for helping Romney get elected, but I still feel you are misguided.
Both Romney and Obama will stay within the framework set for them by the corporate and military elite. No person who wouldn’t do so could be elected in this country at this time. The corporate media and wealthy interests simply would not allow it. If the Democrats didn’t have Obama they’d have some other coroporatist running. You saw what happened to Howard Dean and he wasn’t even that progressive. They destroyed his candidacy over nothing in favor a candidate they could control.
Here is what we gain if Obama wins:
Two seats on the supreme court for a Kagan / Sotomayor justice instead of a John Roberts / Scalia justice.
A chance (not a certainty by any means) of something significant being done about climate change. Minimally we’ll see continued investment in green energy, which will with certainty be killed in the cradle under Romney.
Some measure of control over Wall Street excess. The Street went with Romney and Obama doesn’t owe them like he did in his first term.
I’d be naive to say Obama would really go after Wall Street and start throwing people in jail like he should, but with Romney even the lousy financial reform laws Obama passed would be gutted.
Don’t even think the two would be the same on gay rights or women’s reproductive freedom. Night and day.
These are just a few of the policy differences you’d see, but one of the most important changes we’ll see if Obama wins has to do with the Republican party. If they lose this election I think the GOP will find that it simply cannot win as the party of racism, homophobia and retrograde religion. The establishment will likely stop trying to rile up these forces with a faux “Tea Party” movement and turn back to the center. What this means is that a lot of current Democrats that really should be Republicans might actually return to their proper party. Anti-labor, fiscal conservatives that fled the GOP because of its overt ugliness could return.
Then the Democrats will need us again. They’ll need labor. They’ll need progressives. And religious bigots can find out what it’s like to get taken for granted for a while. This could happen if Romney loses. If he wins I think you’re absolutely wrong to believe that pushes the country left. It only proves the country accepts all the nastiness the GOP has put out there. It will push the GOP and their transcriptionists in the media further to the right. Want proof? Did Al Gore’s loss in 2000 make the media wake up and realize how conservative he was? Hell no, they all just said America was a “center-right” nation.
History says that your premise is just false.
If you’re in a deep blue or red state vote your conscience. If you’re in a swing state I’m begging you to vote for Obama.
history says that your post here is very weak tea, indeed.
“A vote for Barack Obama cements a media landscape making the American public believe it has a communist at worst, far-left liberal at best set of policies in place, and that they’re what’s failing us rather than over-reliance on a free market whose invisible hand is taking money from your pockets and transferring it to those of the most wealthy at a rapid rate.”
Well put.
There is a reason the Good Cop con is the defining element of the Democratic Party. It is extremely effective in fooling its slightly less authoritarian members to maintain the status quo and to vote against their own interests. After four years of evidence that the Good Cop is on the same team as the Bad Cop, folks still fall for the con. “Collaborate with the nice policeman,” they insist. “You wouldn’t want the mean one to come back for more time under the hot lights!” Well, it is the citizen’s cooperation with the Good Cop that seals their punishment under “the law.”
What all the cooing about? The very title of your post is offensive, like a Limbaugh sort of thing, to presume to tell someone else how he/she “should” be voting. Give me a break; can you re-phrase that? Let’s assume the adults who gather here can indeed each make his/her own choice, even if it is not pleasing to you.
You mean to say that Kennedy and Bader Gisnburg will be replaced by someone to their right.
Wow, with such strong, ironclad assurances as these I am so sorry I voted for a party on the left and actually made my preferences known.
Uh, no.
I just got back from voting Green! I only wish I lived in a swing state, where my vote could have done more toward sinking President Zero.
Some reasons not to vote for either Obama or Romney:
They both intend to be The Law and at the same time exist above it.
Neither candidate gives a fuck if you or I live or die except as we might serve their sociopathic, power-hungry interests.
The policies and actions of both candidates are nearly identical. I see no substantial difference between the two other than the rhetoric they deliver to their respective bases.
Their bases, especially where deference to authority, tribalism, over-consumption and fear are concerned, are nearly identical as well.
Both candidates are bankrolled by the same corporate entities. These are the interests that primarily get served.
The President, in the age of TeeVee, is mostly a flickering figurehead.
Voting, especially in a representative democracy where power goes to the highest bidder, is almost useless. There are so many more productive things on which a citizen can spend their time, money and efforts.
Voting for either a Dem or Rep helps cement and reward the current system and its Blue and Red team representatives.
If a critical mass of citizens keeps voting for either major party, then there will be no other “serious,” “practical” options other than to keep voting for either major political party.
If one is interested in redressing the poor political and economic system in the US, then the first thing to do is stop participating in it (change from within is the justification for acquiescence). One can’t keep validating something and then wonder why it doesn’t change. This does not mean that the citizen, as a powerful political entity, stops acting (I hear a lot of people conflating not voting for either major party with doing nothing politically, which is nonsense. The inability to think outside of voting as the pinnacle of dutiful citizenship is stunning.).
People rail against Wall Street and yet keep giving them their retirement money to gamble with. People grumble about outsourcing but keep over-consuming goods produced in poorer countries. People despise US wars in the Middle East but refuse to use less oil. Well, if these are the actions of the US citizenry, what the fuck does one expect to be the result? Voting in the US, like so many words, is nearly useless. Voting gets us off the hook for doing the things that actually cost us something and are therefore actually valuable. And within the context of US capitalism, voting mostly appears to be a religious ritual with all the inherent efficacy of prayer.
As long as both candidates are the employees of those same business interests that gave each of them the half a billion dollars they need to get the job, why are we even talking about voting? Do we expect that this time the TV has no power over our conclusions? Do we expect to get something that we didn’t pay for? Do we expect that an act that costs us almost nothing is somehow valuable? We have been told that the President represents the citizenry since seventh grade civics class. But it is a myth. And why should they represent us? Are you and I on their campaign “donor” list?
Freaking cracking me up, dude.
If only…that’s funny.
Will the readership and diarrhea ever stop? Hopefully by tomorrow.
(Hi oldgold)
Still a bit nervous here. Gah.
Are you hoping that, with another term, Obama and the democrats will be able to get the “credit” for destroying social security as well?
Do you have a problem with people voting for the candidate that supports your own issues?
I think it’s important to look at the disenfranchised voters and see how they are supporting someone who wants to move forward with civil rights and opposed to winguts who are trying to push their racist, bigoted, money driven values on this country.
Why are you commenting on a site this is progressively, if not radically liberal?
Waste of your time, I think. Unless you’re getting a paycheck for it.
I’d appreciate a response. Thank you.
If persuasion isn’t part of the goal of an argument, why bother to have one? Although description instead of prescription avoids objectification.
Your patronizing dismissiveness toward those not Obamabots is tiresome.
So, yawn, babe.
Thanks for your opinion. We all have one.
It’s a big site. If I tire you, maybe it’s time for a nap. I don’t comment that much during the day.
Excitedly voted for Obama 4 years ago. Voted for Jill Stein today, and had to leave a bunch of down-ballot stuff blank.
I guess that’s this year’s “Hope and Change.”
Hang in there everybody!
Kennedy has voted almost a straight conservative line for the last few years now. There’s no chance Obama appoints someone to his right. With Ginsberg we’re screwed. Nobody who could win a presidential election would nominate someone that liberal in the current political climate.
Which is my point. There is no scenario where you get what you want in a president. None. I don’t give fig for your “voice” or “sending a message.” I care who controls the most powerful military in the world, nominates justices, holds veto power and sets the national political agenda.
I forgot one critical difference between Obama and Romney. Obama has shown restraint in placing ground forces into new conflicts. Romney will have our soldiers in Iran by year three of his first term. Obama will continue to rely upon sanctions until pushed to the limit at which point he might carry out air strikes. That sucks, but it’s also better than the full scale invasion that nearly everyone on Romney’s foreign policy team has had a hard on for since 2002.
The fact is progress is not going to come by electing the right president, but the way it always has. By creating a movement the establishment can no longer ignore. The Occupy movement, getting liberal congressmen and senators elected to state houses and the US congress. That’s how it’s done.
Bill, you just registered at this site several weeks ago.
Where do you get off making that comment to me?
(This is for the other commenters to put your words into context.)
Pshhhhh!
PS, it just occured to me that your comment is either a lie, or that you are someone who has been banned previously and your sneaking back in.
Excellent diary.
I put on my Occupy Wall Street t-shirt this morning and voted for Jill in a swing state and wrote in Bradley Manning for house rep.
What is your evidence to back that statement up?
If I go into a restaurant and order spaghetti I expect the chef to serve me spaghetti, I shouldn’t need to “force” him to do it. The reality is that Obama is as far to the right as Romney. Kagan and Sotomayor are pro-prosecution and corporation disasters from a left perspective, and by all accounts Obama’s first choices to fill the next vacancies are Cass Sunstein, Diane Wood or Kamala Harris, all of whom would be abominations well to the right of Kennedy and Ginsburg on civil liberties, corporate regulation, etc.
I know that you think you should be privileged because you have been here a while, but that isn’t the way the internet works.
You are not a Democrati, liberal, or progressive. You are a paid republican shrill, who turned a once proud progressive website, into MYDD.
A succinct quote worth repeating.
Your continuing bashing the president, and not working with progressives to rid the obstruction of republicans, is what doomed this website. Sometimes I can’t decide if I am on a once proud progressive website, or the Blaze.
That is funny, the whole reason I registered here is because of Obama apologists such as yourself whom I am afraid are turning this site into Daily Kos.
Daily Kos is for grown ups, not spoiled white kids who threw a tantrum in the grocery store, because mommie wouldn’t buy that bag of chips.
“I’m wondering how long it will take before we can characterize folks as “good Americans,” . . .”
A dozen years and counting? I put the coup as the start date.
Go back to DailyKos where they have censors working overtime to protect you from people much smarter than yourself.
With democrats like Obama (war, assassination of US citizens, corporate-bail-outs, etc), “obstruction of the republicans” becomes irrelevant.
Instead, we need to obstruct Obama.
Nice work!
Ah, the petulant child metaphor! I thought I was dreaming- I am back on HP in 2009!
Well, I didn’t want to waste my vote. That was my motivation.
So I wrote in “Jill Stein”, as they hadn’t given me the option of placing a check next to her name. It was a bit of a shock arriving at the balloting booth to find the only reason that I bothered to show up had vanished. No way was I going to chicken out and vote for the Moderate Evil candidate just because the Republican was a little less moderately evil.
Parenthetically and apostrophically, how f*ing hard would it have been for you, Georgia Secretary of State Brian P. Kemp, to have added “Jill Stein, Green Party Candidate” to your Diebold Fraud-o-matic Machines?
It pains me to come here, and see what this has turned into. You have become the bastion of the self-me, self-serving, pretend world of progressives. You guys are so smart and privileged, to be able to vote YOUR conscience, for people who couldn’t get elected dog catcher. Do you know what a vote for the green party means? A Mitt Romney win. Do you know what that means?
People will get kicked off of their insurance because of a pre-exsisting condition
State funding for sick kids, S-chip, will be gravely reduced.
Seniors will be paying more for prescription drugs. I will be handed a 6500 voucher, to pay for my 100,000 hospital bill, after my heart attack.
Brown skinned people will go to war with Iran, while you will get to go on your computer, in your nice warm homes, to complain about it.
Middle class Americans will lose just about all of their standard deductions.
Sometimes in grown-up world, life is about 2 choices: Going to a job you hate, vs being unemployed. Leaving an abusive relationship, or staying. Only those who have been taught that they are indeed the center of the universe, will make choices on ego, not for the betterment of the whole.
So, my suggestion is, if you are not going to help, then stay out of the way, and let the adults stop these republicans from turning all of us back to the 18th century.
You are so special. Tell that to the kid with a terminal illness, who no longer has S-chip because of president Mitt, that you voted your conscience.
Thank you. I don’t want to steal from principlesoverparty‘s applause, so let’s credit him (?) with the inspiration.
Likewise, I think I’m going to put the response to the Tribalists in another comment; no need to mess with the good vibes here.
Voted for Alexander/Mendoza (write-in)…and nobody else. Sort of sad that the Greens and/or Peace & Freedom couldn’t field a candidate in any Congressional or state-legislative race in my part of California. Still, glass one-tenth full, or whatever, right? And it did feel good utterly repudiating the “Democrats” that way.
Anyone advocating beer over war has my admiration and respect.
But, have you read Roberts’ majority opinion defense of Obama’s Affordable Care Act? This is the guy who helped Obama do for insurance companies what Cheney did for energy companies. Where is the supposed left-right divide here?
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf
So you’re suggesting that people who fought for an 8 hour work day should have instead just been happy that they had jobs at all?
If you are willing to accept bad conditions, then that is what you’ll always be given. If you are willing to accept scum-bag politicians like Obama, then that is the best you’ll ever get.
Bingo! Or to quote Col. Saito in Bridge on the River Kwai: Be happy in your work.
It’s so cool that you can see the future that way. Who’s going to win the Super Bowl? I could go to Vegas, get a few dollars down. Do you know the score?
By the way, why don’t you go tell Abdulrahman al-Awlaki’s mother (Gihan Mohsen Baker) that you voted for the man who blew her 16-year-old son (an American citizen) to smithereens? The kid’s already dead, so you, unlike Barmitt O’bamney, won’t need to wait.
Have fun!
Funny about those countries. They kill more women for showing their feet or trying to get an education, than “assassin drones. Funny you would care more about them, when people of your own country, are standing in line, being denied the right to vote. You patriotism (or lack of) puts the republican party to shame.
I care about Anna Balarky, an America mother, who is afraid that she will lose state benefits for her sick child, from Romney/Ryan. Where are your loyalties?
You don’t know shit.
I still suspect that you are someone who has been previously banned and are sneaking in here on election day to spread more manure on a day when the mods are too busy to figure out who you really are.
Tell me how the internet works. Any idiot can post any bs anytime they want? Is that how it works?
Ha!
To biznesschic and the other Borg, I kind of wish I was a “paid Republican shill”; my actual life of being unemployed, getting a lousy $210/wk (probably not enough to prevent likely my homelessness, and consequent hoped-for suicide) and losing even that crumb at year’s end isn’t exactly the good life. Oh, well.
Clearly, whatever else in your racist spew might be or might not be true, if we are to judge by that particular sentence of yours, it would appear that Orange for Obama is NOT a site much inhabited by spelling, punctuation, or grammar. Good to know, you bigoted bot. Thanks ever so much.
(Is it perhaps telling that that Obama Tribalist puts “business’, er “bizness”, in her username? Some of us care more about people than corporations, around here. Just so you know.
It’s kind of like Mike Lofgren telling us we have to line up behind Obama, when Lofgren was a Republican staffer until 2011. Barack Obama: the kind of “Democrat” that Bush Republicans approve of. Yay?)
No, I am saying that grown up lives are about sometimes choices. It is between having a job you hate, vs getting evicted from your home. I know, the cry babbies on her would quit and move in with mommie, but seriously, some of us don’t have that choice.
Wow, with an articulate rejoinder like this I am forced to ignore you from now on.
Here’s how I know that I’m talking to an adult: They have nothing to persuade me but fear-mongering, speculative and unrealized threats, and a mutually exclusive dichotomous view of the world that objectifies those with whom they disagree.
Unless one has a gun to their head, everyone votes their conscience. It is the essence of voting. Even if one makes a compromise between what they regard as the lesser of two evils, they are still voting their conscience.
“So, my suggestion is, if you are not going to help, then stay out of the way . . .”
So, conform or be damned, eh? You are either with us or against us, huh? Indeed. Where else have I heard these adult axioms?
Now I know you are a republican shrill. Don’t mind if you think that the truth now is somehow racist, it is an old republican tacit to shut down debate. When I am called a racist, I know that I said something that is indeed, a fact.
Heh. From Pastebin.
Tell my why you think I presume that I’m privledged. What would that privledge be?
Just voted Jill Stein happily. It’s feels so much betta when you vote your principles
And in keeping with my view of dc dems, “wipe them out…all of them!”, I voted for the republican opposed to Diane Feinstein. It’s time to hit the reset button on this entire group of traitorous scumbag dc dems!
I felt the same way as the writer but then I read Michael Moore’s letter and then read this and I realized how long the list above would have been if McCain was Prez so after 2 years of thinking I wouldn’t vote again for Obama I have decided I will vote for him.
And I do think the first time writer above may very well be a republican. Thanks
But I keep meaning to ask folks who post election stuff at the eleventh hour is they don’t know that 32 states have early voting, and 29 or something have protocols for absentee (read: by mail) voting? In CO, over half the number of voters in the 2008 election have already voted.
So proud of you. Do me a favor? Take my brown son’s place, when Mitt leads us into with Iran?
Let us talk about people of my own county then—Obama IS assassinating US citizens too, or didn’t you know that?
White. It is not just a disease that affects the republican party.
While I have no problem with disagreements – BeerNotWar makes a phenomenal opposing view I don’t agree with in the slightest, but I respect him tremendously for being reasoned in his analysis – comments like those from demi and biznesschic are devoid of any content whatsoever, do not address any points anybody has made in an even semi-coherent or intelligent manner, and raise a level of paranoia commonly seen on FreeRepublic about “Soros” plants. There are a lot of comments I want to address (like the Greenpeace thing) and it’d be nice to see actual discussion of real things going on rather than petty tribalistic infighting, so is there anywhere else on the site this can be taken?
And that will change with Mitt? Who is more likely to take us into another useless war? Your privileged leads you to ignore whats best for you and all of us. It is a disease that you were raised with, and frankly, you are no different from Tea Baggers.
What does seniority have to do with you being dismissive?
First, it’s “you’re,” not “your.” Next, it “occurred,” not “occured.”
Second, what makes you believe billwarren was once banned and is now sneaking back in?
Ask yourself if you are indeed patronizing and dismissive of those who are not Obama supporters, and then respond to him accordingly. Don’t suggest that his voice is somehow less important than yours or that he’s been banned. That’s as bad as suggesting third party supporters are on Romney’s payroll. Oh, wait. You already did that with GDC707.
You vote your conscious, while the rest of us votes responsible. White privilege unveiled.
My loyalties are with humanity, from sick children (including the many who have gone untreated the past four years because Obama made sure his version of RomneyCare wouldn’t kick in until 2014, so as not to hurt his re-election chances) to people who haven’t gotten preventive because RomneyCare keeps the expensive, for-profit “insurance” system in place, to seniors who can’t afford their medication because Obama strangled the Dorgan Amendment allowing reimportation after he campaigned for it, at least four times in 2008.
My loyalties are with the unemployed (me!) losing their benefits. My loyalties are with the black Africans butchered by Obama’s al-Qaeda fighters in Libya, whose “rebellion” has turned into a genocide against black Libyans. (See Tawergha, for example.) My loyalties are with LGBT Americans being discriminated against in hiring by federal contractors, because Obama won’t sign a fucking executive order preventing it. My loyalties are with teachers whose unions Obama is trying to crush, with homeowners who saw Obama give the people who stole their homes effect amnesty, with poor people everywhere being starved and butchered and drone-bombed to death because they’re Muslim and Obama doesn’t want to look “weak” on “terror”.
Where are YOUR loyalties? With your “hero”, Obama? Grow up.
Oh and again, I’m dealing in actualities, not hypotheticals. It’s amazing how you just know that Mitt will seek to repeal S-Chip and that he’ll succeed in doing so. Because, after all, Presidential candidates always keep their promises, right? Like the way Obama passed EFCA, ENDA and repealed NAFTA…
“Funny you would care more about them, when people of your own country . . .”
Ah, ha. And here we have the give away. Your position–egotistical proclamation of martyrdom to the contrary–is that your team, whether it is your political party or your nation, is inherently better than the other team. If this is your position, great. But calling this acting like an adult or sacrificing for “the betterment of the whole” is inaccurate.
“They kill more women for showing their feet or trying to get an education, than “assassin drones.”
And I would love to get your cause and effect analysis of how making war on these people improves the quality of their lives.
You have done a better job here of demonstrating the lack of practical difference between the Reps and the Dems than anything Romney or Obama has done.
Sorry, but as the tea party, real progressives are tired of saving you from yourselves. Sometimes the truth hurts, right?
That would be the federal unemployment extension that Obama got for you that ends on 12/29.
So what is voting for Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson going to do for you? Keep you warm?
Please again see how I said BeerNotWar opposes me in much the same way you do, but BeerNotWar made reasoned arguments and actually talked about real things, rather than accusing people of being plants or calling names.
The “choice” between Obama and Romney is no more meaningful on most levels than the choice between “good-cop” and “bad-cop.” That is not choice, that is the illusion of choice.
I’m sure that the people who fought for things like the 8 hour work day could have made excuses too (and just accepted what they were offered by their bosses), rather than putting it on the line to make the world a better place.
Sorry, there are those who ancestors were lynched, to have the right to vote. Some of us just don’t throw it away, because we are so special. We use our vote, for the common good, not ego.
I have no intention of participating in your secular religion, so don’t worry.
Deciding what is “responsible” is not an act of conscience?
And who the hell are you calling white?
That ends on 12/29 is right, because Obama is too much of a coward to rollback Clinton’s indefensible cuts to welfare which made an arbitrary end date to unemployment benefits.
Not while Obama’s cutting the heating subsidies.
Three spelling/grammar errors in the first 11 words, and a little racism at the end as a chaser! Very economical, to fit all that trash in so compactly.
Bravo!
Right. Those who went out on the front lines, at least voted for the right guy, who could make change. They didn’t vote for the bus driver, because he shared their same views.
Typical republicans. Can’t refute, attack grammar.
Thanks for the spelling lesson. I usually have nearly perfect grammar and spelling, but you would know that if you Knew me.
If getting nit picky is all you have, well, go for it.
You haven’t left yet?
I’m laughing.
No, but then I didn’t vote for Mitt, or any other wannabe drone assassin.
That is strange, because you are the one backing a candidate who supports so many Right-Wing policies .
Obama cutting heating subsidies? Ha. Have fun moving grandma in with you, when Mitt kicks her out of the nursing home.
I’d like to suggest not engaging with either demi or biznesschic unless they actually would like to make a point about anything, it’s incredibly disheartening to see the last few dozen comments clogged up with namecalling and baseless attacks not talking about anything of consequence.
Also, sorry for not saying this earlier, but the overwhelmingly positive response has been awesome, and so have most of you. Thank you so much.
Please do share this, even after the election is over.
Truth hurts. Hey, since you guys are in an alternate universe, why don’t you just write in JFK? He has just about as much chance as winning, as Jill.
I rarely log in but did this morning to rec this diary. Everything the diarist said is true. It doesn’t matter if he’s a newbie, a shill, or a space alien. Truth is truth. It seems to me that the only arguments the Obama supporters have is that someone else may have been or may yet be worse. That is slim pickins as far as pro arguments go. Someone above said we should vote responsibly, not our conscience. I can’t reconcile a statement like that in my mind no matter how hard I try.
Sorry, I can’t get your meaning of that, but I’d like to understand. A little more, please?
John, you’re right – it was the League of Conservation Voters I was thinking of. I messed up and overlooked that, and have corrected it. Thanks!
So what does voting for a guy who can “make change” have to do with voting for Obama? Obama simply continues Bush’s policies and serves his corporate masters. No change there.
Right. Non engagement. That why the paint drying website gets more hits than FDL. You guys found a pity pot, and it has destroyed a once powerful progressive website. Carry on.
Right on. No point here. The internet is for free speech only if your a loony.
It’s pretty clear what’s going on. Thank God we have Tomorrow.
Hope I spelled that correctly.
Thanks. Your post was a good run down of the effects of centrist, status quo tribalism.
Thanks for your honest appraisal, I do appreciate it. I originally had something longer and more eloquent written, with lots of links, but through an amazing bit of idiocy lost it. I’ve been lurking on and off for at least a year and really wanted to get this off my chest so I posted it right after I registered. I presented this in a “If a Republican” way because I hoped it would break through the tribalistic “Obama is always a better choice than Mitt Romney no matter what Republicans are so scary” mentality but from some of these comments, I can’t tell if I succeeded. I guess you can kind of call it a hit piece, in that I wanted to dissuade people from “lesser of 2 evils” voting by showing they’re both pretty much the same, but I didn’t think I was misleading, so I guess I didn’t think of “hit piece” as a negative.
T Borg himself drones at me! I’m so honored!
As for the “content” of Mr. Borg, well…
You mean, if I had voted for Obama instead of Stewart Alexander, he would have extended my UI benefits instead of cutting them off? (Despite unemployment currently being at a level where even Ronald Reagan signed a UI extension?) Wow, who knew?
I never knew I had such power! I just wish someone had told me my vote was so important! Sorry about that, folks.
(And, more seriously, I do give Obama credit for the UI extension he signed last year…although he let us dangle in the wind forever because he so wanted his “Payroll Tax Holiday” and wouldn’t approve the bill without it. He did what both Reagan and Bush did: sign a UI extension with unemployment above 7.2%. It’s his decision not to even seek one this year which separates him from his idol, Reagan. {Reagan also got unemployment down far faster that Obama, whose 4-year-reign of 8%+ annual unemployment doubles the previous record.])
Holding elected officials accountable for their actions, including whether they fought the necessary battles even if they didn’t win all of them, including whether they protected and defended the Constitution, whether they stood for the principles of their party, and whether their policies served the interests of the majority of people more than the interests of the wealthy and powerful, is the duty of every citizen. It’s the only way democracy can be made to work. It’s not being self-serving or a crybaby or privileged.
Thank you Demi. Hope the founders on this site read this. It is really sad, what this place has turned into. Now, lets watch Obama win this election.
Wow – GREAT diary, let alone for what seems to be your first. And (with only a handful of exceptions, most of whom should simply have been ignored) good commenters as well. Makes me wish I had spent more time here recently.
Living in NH I suppose my vote may actually count for something, and it was a difficult choice today. With one exception in 2006 which I soon came to regret I haven’t voted for a Democrat for national office since 2002 (soon after which most of them turned tail and ran away rather than oppose the unnecessary and illegal invasion of Iraq) and have voted for progressive third-party candidates when available or just left national ballot slots blank, but 32 months ago just before the end of the health-care ‘reform’ fiasco I pledged to the Democratic leadership to vote Republican for all national offices until such time as a ‘public option’ became law (since at that point they still had the opportunity to pass it under reconciliation rules with 50 votes – plus Biden’s – in the Senate).
I did exactly that the next November and had planned to do it again today even though a couple of reasonable progressive alternatives for the White House existed. But then, literally as I was driving to the polls, the thought occurred to me that another 4 years of Obama might well lead to the destruction of the Democratic party (at least at the national level), just as his first two years almost did in 2010 (because, like then, he won’t have his own reelection to worry about). And AFAICT based on at least the past 8 years of evidence the destruction of the national Democratic establishment is an absolute prerequisite for any real progressive movement to occur.
The result of this last-minute revelation was that instead of voting ‘strategically’ for Romney & Ryan I wound up writing in Anderson & Rodriguez (by far the most palatable option for me given that the Greens still don’t seem to have their act together, much as I wish they did) – but I still voted Republican to keep my feckless former Democratic Rep. from regaining the seat which I helped boot her out of in 2010.
I haven’t held state and local Democrats responsible for the failings of their national colleagues, but when one of them sent me an email a few days ago stating “believe me when I say that a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for the Republicans” I left his ballot slot blank today and wrote him a response telling him why (who knows? it might even do some good, since as a former Deaniac he may yet have a few brain cells functioning).
This left me feeling good enough that I volunteered to help count votes this evening, which should beat watching the horse-race results come in (since I didn’t have a reason to bet, they just won’t be very interesting). All in all, as satisfying a day as I could have hoped for (even though that’s not saying much) – and now reading this diary and set of responses is the icing on the cake.
I voted today. My husband and son (first vote at 18) did so also.
I follow the issues that are important to me and I think you’ll agree that I’m not a cry baby.
So, I’m trying to wrap my mind around why I was called Privledged earlier in the thread, and I thought maybe you could explain that, since you and I have had a couple of exchanges.
Thanks in advance, Mary.
I have refuted you, dear. You may have been too busy implying that I am white (and that all white opponents of Obama are racists) to notice, that’s all.
And “Republican” requires a capital “R” when you’re referring to the Party (a proper name, after all) , rather than the system of government. Just so you know.
And, in a shocking (to you, anyway) development: not only am I not a Republican (Democrat all my life, until switching to Socialist this year), but I’ve never voted for a single Republican in my life.
Well, not a labelled-as-such Repub, anyway. I did vote for Clinton in 1992 and Obama in 2008, but I corrected both of those mistakes, the second time around. I just hope you learn the error of your ways a bit more quickly than I did.
Peace. (No, don’t drone me, Barack! It’s just an expression, dammit!)
So, now you’re just trying to be offensive. How nice of you to try to turn this into racism. Dumbass. Go back to Kos.
Pins and needles, biz.
I spoke to a friend last night whom I’ve known since we were both 12. She’s a brilliant freak who teaches drama at a private academy in Utah. Utah, ’nuff said. But, there is a wonderful art society in SLC. Anyway, she told me that the headmaster of the school has been asking her for a week, Do you have the Fear?
Just saying that she and I also felt the numbers over the last few days had “somewhat” decreased our anxiety.
Still, pins and needles here.
And, you are very most welcome.
Yeah, because Obama was so freakin’ different from Bush after he got into office, huh? Since you’ve already made several allusions to the fact that you’re a minority and that you don’t care for caucasians, why don’t you just go ahead and get what your real problem is out in the open? If we didn’t vote for Obama, that means we’re racist, right?
Funny story about that.. I’m black, and I couldn’t hold my nose and vote for Obama, never mind just vote for him because of his color.
Indeed, myopic childish tribalism is on display here. The indoctrination of childhood is turned into a secular religion.
“Within the next generation I believe that the world’s leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience.” – Aldous Huxley
Well, demi, I don’t know why anyone is calling anyone names on this thread. The original diary was questioning whether people who call themselves liberal were holding Obama accountable for policies which the diarist doesn’t see as liberal. I happen to agree with the need for asking that question.
I don’t think people who answer that question by voting for a candidate who more clearly reflects their values are “Republicans, shills, privileged, etc.” And though I strongly disagree with people in red and blue states who choose to vote for Obama despite his many failings, I don’t think they need to be called names either.
I hope your son enjoyed his first time voting, and that your family had an interesting time discussing candidates and issues. Informed citizen and accountable politicians are what we need, not people who vote automatically for or against a party.
Anyone who advocates not voting as the third option or voting for Mitt Romney as a fourth option before voting for Barack Obama is a fucking idiot.
Rahm was right.
x2!
Oh dude! I love it! I had the idea once to write in “whale”:
http://my.firedoglake.com/tambershall/2012/08/14/what-happened-to-youve-got-to-stop-voting-by-mark-e-smith/#comment-136
In the primary I wrote in Daniel Ellsberg.
Don’t worry. As long as people like me post here, that hasn’t happened. I don’t always agree with Jane Hamsher, but, unlike many of the admins of Democratic Party-dominated echo chambers which a few here apparently long for, Jane believes in free speech.
No, I believe they just disagree with you. You are not so special that anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot. You believe in voting for Obama and that is fine. Others don’t. another good post that makes outstanding arguments. Some will agree, and more won’t. why do you care so much that people must agree with you?
Who I voted for is none of your business and your opinion is irrelevant to me. Soooo glad this election is over. Can’t wait to wave bye-bye to the purity trolls and voter bullies.
Thank you, Mary. I can live what everything you said.
We did, in fact, enjoy discussing the issues, the background, ie. who’s backing which and what amendment and how that might affect the outcome. Sonny is taking Sociology right now and that has played into his understanding of this election. Oops, I almost said race, but then, OMG. I’m just laughing.
And, yes, I took a snapshot of him outside the place, in front of the Polling sign, with his sample ballot in hand.
I’m not giving up on the way our government is handling Democracy. I’m going to Never Give Up.
And thank you. Much appreciated.
Well, you are imputing motives to a poster on FDL, a clear violation of the Carnac rule. You are also flagged for doing so.
And have a nice day.
This was meant to be persuasive, not demanding or bullying. I’m sorry it came off that way. :/
So why did you just offer your opinion right now?? Why was it so, so important for you to state that what was said was irrelevant?? If their opinion was so, so irrelevant you would certainly not have commented here. IT was obviously NOT irrelevant to you. that’s my opnion, and I know you care not one iota for my opinion either.
I actually got the idea here on FDL in 2010 to write in “public option”, and I like it (“single payer” this time) because unlike not voting, or voting for a repuglican, or “none of the above” etc., all of which can be misinterpreted, it is a way to actually state precisely what I want.
T Borg, ladies and germs! Class, like always!
(Well, three-fifths of “class”, anyhow.)
You have DBagg nailed.
Why I won’t be voting for BO and why you shouldn’t either.
That’s nice dear.
Anyone who goes onto a political site and advocates for not voting and thinks that is going to bring about change is a fucking idiot. Not all opinions are equal. Some are just retarded right out of the gate. principlesoverparty is not a person to be taken seriously and, as far as I am concerned, represents everything that is embarrassing and awful about myFDL which, in turn, damages the FDL brand.
That’s why I care.
I outlined, in detail, why I think the “choices” are laid out as such (and there are several options before that I stated as more desirable) and all you’ve done is ad-hom attack, say I’m “not to be taken seriously” and mention concerns about the health of FDL.
You know, instead of hanging around FDL all day whining about Obama you should maybe go out and look for a job although, to be fair, cynicism and poor reasoning skills aren’t exactly marketable skills.
I see the Surrender Monkey Liberals are making their Last Stand At Papage Wells against the Heathens who won’t submit to their Authorita.
Those who don’t want to join the Tborg may be called Purists but does that make those who do Filth?
So anyone who votes their conscience instead of following YOUR oh-so-pragmatic lesser-of-two-evils advice is an idiot.
And Democrats wonder why so many former Democrats are voting Green, Socialist, independent, or just staying home. Democrats like you shouted insults at Democrats like me who were opposed to the DLC on principle, and even after we were proven correct by the rightward drift of our government you continue to have nothing to counter us with but insults and snark.
You’ve admitted that you are well-off enough to weather a Romney presidency. All that tells me is that you support Obama because you can afford to do so. I can’t. Not anymore. I’m NOT that well-off, which is one big reason I left the Democratic Party.
I can empathize with people like you, for I grew up genuinely upper middle class in another time. I’m willing to bet, however, that you cannot possibly empathize or even understand people like me.
So please, stop insulting the intelligence of myself and others by defending the Fascists who now control the Democratic Party. You’re not stupid; it’s a pity you still tow the Party line.
Praise TBoww! votes for Obama and praises Rahm’s sagacity and brain power to prove he’s a fucking idiot. But the man gets paid don’t cha know.
Wow. Did the Liberal Limbaugh just tell someone to STFU and get a job?
How marvelous!
More snark. Is that the best you can do? Probably, for you have no logical argument for a leftist to support Obama. I can’t speak for VS, but I have a full time job. You can tell because I seldom post during week days, unlike you.
So. Do you have a job or are you one of those trust fund babies with nothing better to do with your time than berate people on the Internet?
When they are reduced to telling you to go get a job, you know your points have been effective. Heh.
And, name changing, TBorg, is not oh so classy?
Your Comrade is name calling too. Not classy at all, least in my book.
Damn it, you made me hurt my head.
But you still advocated for not voting as your third choice. And that is retarded. Maybe you thought you were being provocative but you just ended up looking like an idiot.
I’ve been a writer here at FDL for years. I’m paid to write here and, in addition to my friendship with Jane, I have a vested interest in FDL surviving as an influential website. As far as I’m concerned unserious posts like yours are no different than smearing shit on the walls. It make FDL look like, to the outside world, a collection of lunatics, misfits, and bedlamites.
I think people like you are termites.
Be smarter please.
More damn it. I hate those smiley face things. I forget not to smile here. Will try harder to remember.
Actually, the FDL brand seemed to be doing just fine here until you and a few other numbskulls decided to pollute the discussion with your unpleasant rants. Perhaps what you’re REALLY upset about is that ‘the FDL brand’ just isn’t to your liking as much as it was a few years ago. Well, tough.
I disagree. It think it was the storm.
I have a job. And I write for FDL.
And if I didn’t have a job, I sure as hell wouldn’t spend my days railing about the system online when faced with imminent homelessness.
My sympathy is with those who at least attempt to help themselves instead of trying to get that third nail in so people can admire their self-martydom.
I’m off to vote!
<3 you guys!
That was just a segue into my statement about how happy you people losing interest and going away is going to make me. And you’re right: I couldn’t care less what you think about me.
Re the Huxley quote (thanks, good one) and infant conditioning:
Methods of torture employed by the US have made a similar evolution over the past few generations. Beating someone with a rubber hose is an inefficient way to destroy them (the goal of all torture) and gives the victim an external entity on which to focus their resistance. Sensory overload or deprivation (a la Orwell’s Room 101) are far more effective forms of abuse in that they get the victims to turn on themselves.
Politically, these approaches are how voting against one’s own interests and the generation of authoritarian followers are partially produced. Perhaps it used to be the case that Reps typically exhibited more of these propensities than Dems, but any previous gap seems to be narrowing. And both party members display a very strange penchant for hoping that their “leader” will take care of what should be their political responsibility; for abdicating their essential role as a citizen in deference to a wise and benevolent father figure.
The television has been a great help in these endeavors. It has also helped homogenize the citizenry, or consumers as they are now called . . .
You don’t have to take my word for it, but I’ve seen the traffic decline and FDL is not doing fine and it is not growing and it is not profitable for Jane.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.
While touting how important it is to be “progressive” you’re calling me “retarded” and telling an unemployed person to “get a job” and then tout your paid position here and friendship with the site owner when called on it? I didn’t write my post to be “provocative” TBogg. I wrote it to be honest, and persuasive, and to try to make people see things from my point of view. If anything in my post is factually incorrect, or even if you disagree with my premise that liberals would not tolerate a vast majority of Obama’s biggest actions were a Republican to do them, I’d be happy to debate. You’ve instead contributed nothing but hate and self-interest.
Would you care to tell me how you’d react to my diary had I left off that list at the end?
Enjoy your freedom, Kris. I was going to smile, but then that silly face would show up. Smiling anyway.
I now understand your perspective a little better. According to Alexa.com, a huge chunk of the visits to firedoglake.com are to tbogg.firedoglake.com. If the website isn’t doing well and your section is one of those you believe will help keep the site up and running, well, it wasn’t my intention to intrude.
C’mon folks, you’ve had your fun toying with Basset Boy, but now you’re starting to affect the boy’s livelihood. Listen to him — he’s begging you. Grifting on a phony political posture is hard work, as his soul brother George used to say, and he can’t exactly fall back on honest labor now can he? So cut him some slack!
I hope you’re not accusing ME of self-martyrdom. I’m far more into pillaging.
It most likely came off that way because I am so very weary of everybody and their dog coming along and suggesting that I am incapable of coming to my own conclusions. That I can’t be trusted to go into a voting booth by myself. That I’m some kind of low grade moron who clearly must have to have someone else do her typing. Telling me that I “shouldn’t vote for ___________” kinda reminds me of that. You laid out a cogent, well reasoned case and I share most, if not all of your concerns but I’m frankly insulted by the patronizing tone of someone telling me I “shouldn’t” do this or that. I don’t respond well to ultimatums and that doesn’t seem like it has far to go to becoming one. And again, I have spent this entire cycle split between Stein and Obama and if Stein had appeared more prepared to actually serve as President instead of running a protest campaign, there would have been no angst. My vote is my business though. Not yours and not anybody else’ on this thread. Cool?
I just sent some doremi to Jane, at her current thread requesting donations for delivering blankets to those in need from the hurricane.
Wish I could afford more to help keep FDL going.
I appreciate your sense of humor and your sense of calling Bullshit.
Understood completely. I was trying to be as persuasive as possible without being abrasive, it looks like I didn’t do a good a job as I had hoped. I didn’t at all mean to suggest anybody reading couldn’t think for themselves. I guess on FDL it seems like preaching to the choir, but I wrote this with an audience in mind that hadn’t considered these points. But most, if not all, of FDL had probably already considered them so it read terribly. Maybe it reads terribly even they hadn’t, I don’t know. Either way, thanks for the opinion on Stein – I wasn’t aware of big campaign problems, but it’s a perspective I hadn’t considered.
Don’t expect a reasoned answer. I don’t, but every once in awhile TBogg surprises me. He’s not stupid. Just snarky way too much.
Gee, if ‘the FDL brand’ is measured by hits and income (both of which tend to suffer in today’s highly-polarized environment that tolerates no competition outside that deemed acceptable by the approved major parties) then I guess I really do have absolutely no idea what I am talking about. I always thought ‘the FDL brand’ was measured by things like principles and quality of discussion, but if emulating Fox News by appealing to the least common denominator is your definition of success, knock yourself out.
“Termites?” So now people who disagree with you are no longer fucking retards, who are at least human according to most of the scientific community, but insects?
Hmmm, who does that remind me of? Oh, yeah! The Hutus who slaughtered the Tutsis in Rwanda! Ever see “Hotel Rwanda”? Where the Hutu leader calls for the extermination of the Tutsi “cockroaches?”
That’s low, even for you. And to throw that at a first time poster here to boot. If you have any honor, you will apologize to POP. I won’t hold my breath, though. I’ve dealt with DLC types like you since it was founded.
Call it fatigue on my part. Of the people here who have spent the last twenty months or so insisting nobody vote for Obama, you’re one of the most polite about it. It made me want to vote for the guy just as a “fuck you” to them all.
As for Stein, her campaign has been fine, great even but I’m still not convinced that she was ever prepared to be President. Sure, she doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in a kiln of getting even one electoral vote but it’s hard to take someone seriously who doesn’t seem to have any plan to actually lead. Obama on the other hand, is a corporatist dick who is so far to the right of Ronald Reagan that Nancy would clutch her pearls. Hence the angst. It was one of the toughest choices I’ve made in voting.
You contend that FDL’s in bad shape. Maybe dumb shit-slinging assholes like you have something to do with it.
Ohio Barbarian is right: you owe principlesoverparty an apology.
That’s another reason why I want Obama’s ass kicked tonight. The smug arrogent pricks that obama and his minions are should get stomped into the ground. I voted Jill but will gladly take Romney over these people.
Oh and one more thing: Number four on your list above is simply absurd in my opinion. How can anybody who calls themselves “progressive” possibly rationalize a vote for Willard without resorting to the tired and discredited theory that electing Republicans will “send a message and force the Democrats left”? You think Obama is a corporatist toll but Rmoney is orders of magnitude more so. I don’t get that vote for Rmoney tripe because “we know what we’re getting”. That’s as delusional as any science denying, young Earth creationist, Ayn Rand utopian tea bagger.
Just my .02.
Way to be honest, but to be honest back, you’re scaring me.
No, you only care about obama cause you’re an obamabot. And not voting can be a powerful message as well.
Based on this post I’m thinking Jane should find better friends !
If hits are down on FDL allow me to point out that several of the best posters , indeed Jane herself stopped posting here for the last several months or passed away.
I also recall that hits went way up during occupy but instead of raising the ante, becoming more uncooperative, formulating strategies that helped involved the general public and moving indoors into DC offices and bank buildings the efforts were all put into keeping the Occupiers warm and supplied in order to allow the movement to fizzle out in the cold which it has, along with FDL’s internet traffic.
This was never a wise strategy , as I wrote then, because it would be hard to match the numbers or notoriety we were then enjoying and that non violent non cooperation was and still is the only viable avenue still open to address the issues confronting us.
Is he a liberal?
Don’t be scared. It seems too many dems have forgotten FDR. It’s time to hit the reset button on all these god damn dc dems who have dishonored the liberal and democratic party brand. As sith lord palpatine said, “wipe them out…all of them!”
Sometimes what isn’t said is far more powerful than what is .
How uncivil of you ! /snark
Personally I think they should all be tried for treason myself along with the other guys for more reasons than I can count. But the loss of the bill of rights and habeas corpus, war and militarism , the bug on my phone, the environment and the lack of prosecution for the single greatest monetary criminal theft in human history will do for starters.
Well, over 200+ posts. Not bad, not bad at all for a first diary entry, or for a thousandth diary entry for that matter.
And it’s not even about cats or someone’s unfortunate passing. Don’t get me wrong, I love cats and don’t begrudge the condolence posts one bit, but you did real good, POP.
Real good. Hope you come back.
Guess we know who wins the zed.
I wouldn’t have agreed with it, but I also wouldn’t have commented because it is the same regurgitation that we have seen here for weeks.
Too bad, because you have a nice style.
I guess over turning Roe v Wade doesn’t bother some of you.
I guess a conservative SC doesn’t bother some of you.
I guess privatizing SS doesn’t bother some of you.
Who the hell knew.
X2.
OBOT’s SOP here, POP. They lower the quality of discourse, unfortunately.
Try to ignore them if you can.
Wow. Just wow.
Well said, marym
Why would you think none of those things bother third party voters? Or, to put it another way, are you not bothered by any of the items listed in the diary?
The candidate I voted far is far more unequivocally pro-choice and pro-Social Security than Obama has ever been. If Obama, the Dems in Congress, and their supporters fail to get that message, they’re not listening.
As far as I’m concerned, Obama drove the goddamn get-a-way car for Bush and company so I may hate the guy more than you may realize.
But I didn’t get up and go vote this morning just to throw my vote away and anyone who does before there is a strong third party is doing just that.
You will get no scorn from me. You stated your view well and it is an entirely defensible one. Me, I voted for Jill Stein. But I do think O is the most dangerous man in the country and that his iteration of the Democratic Party is a menace.
X2
X2
Seconded.
I don’t think anybody else wanted to go here, but I will.
FUCK you and your, “I’m a friend of Jane” bullshit.
You judgmental, no one else could possibly have a different rational thought piece o shit fucker.
Go back to your auto-erotic bogg blog if you can’t add anything other than pusillanimous demeaning drivel to the conversation.
I live in IL, in case that wasn’t clear. I didn’t throw away my vote.
I voted to for a platform that contains much that I think would be good for our country, to possibly help a third party cross a vote threshhold that will facilitate ballot access and public funding in the future, to let other people know they’re not alone thinking about other possibilities, and to let the Dems know they need to do something besides be Republican-lite in 2014 and 2016.
The point of the diary was whether people who call themselves liberal will hold their elected officials to any liberal standards. Voting for them no matter what they do doesn’t seem to be a good answer to that question.
Do I owe liberals an apology?
Well yes but we’re the forgiving type
If that was at all unclear, this is directed
at the boggster
So what if the author is a Republican? What would that have to do with the thesis of the post?
It’s easy to be forgiving when all you liberals have Cadillacs and food stamps.
LOL
oh, and excellent post. Cut and pasted, along with Vote Socialist’s additions.
Thank you both, and the many other thoughtful and discerning responses, the OBOT’s ad- hominem attacks excepted.
Your post was incredibly persuasive. That’s why it drove so many of the usual suspects over the edge. It’s pretty unassailable.
I hope you write more in the future.
The reactions of some in this thread expose precisely why some have had enough and are moving on. All they’ve got left are ad hominems, and it shows.
Fair enough. We all have our own thoughts on this. When Jill Stein can pull a couple million votes in Il, she might well have my vote also. But this time around, that ain’t gonna happen.
VS – not clear re the suicide reference. Did you mean the PTB hope for the unemployed to disappear themselves? Sounds like things are kind of dark. You got somewhere to go if you lose your benefits?
DailKos is a propaganda site, strictly monitored and controlled so that dissenting views can’t be expressed. It’s scary.
“Go back to your auto-erotic bogg blog if you can’t add anything other than pusillanimous demeaning drivel to the conversation.”
But that’s his forte, he gets paid to do it and not very well either .
I myself would never vote for the greater of two evils or the lesser of two evils. Both are proven, irrational, self-defeating long-term strategies.
Maybe there are a couple million who feel exactly the same way you do, and they are waiting for you to vote Green before they will. Maybe the only thing that is keeping all of you from voting Green is each other.
Or to put it another way, people like you won’t vote 3rd party because those candidates are not viable, but those candidates are not viable because people like you won’t vote 3rd party.
From the Parenti book on power I quoted above on the function of centrist orthodoxy: “Accusations of “partisanship” and “lack of objectivity” are leveled against those who challenge—but rarely against those who reinforce—ongoing social, economic, and political orientations.”
I hope you don’t get too worked up.
TBogg’s job is to play the I’m-right-and-you’re-wrong-now-go-fuck-yourself provocateur: Anyone who disagrees with him is, by the sole virtue of that disagreement, an idiot. Anyone who does not identify with his team is an enemy—and an idiot. Change can only happen within the established political institutions. Deviation from the acceptance of the Right Answers and conformity to what is institutionally “serious” and “legitimate” will be met with ad hominem attacks. This approach provokes sectarian infighting, mud-slinging, tribalism, cheers, jeers, and all around bashing of opponents, real and imaginary, which, judging from the popularity of these activities, is what he gets paid to instigate. Or so I assume.
It is the same set up one finds on any TV news show: A binary construction that passes for the totality of an issue is presented while two immoveable ideologues take often mean, frequently unsubstantiated, talking point shots at one another. In the US, we call this a reasoned, informative debate. The point of which is to tell people what opinions to have. Running this kind of a show has a very wide audience appeal as one can see from the popularity of folks like Coulter, Maddow, Beck, Olbermann, O’Reilly, etc.
I suppose it pays the bills. Personally, I think it is a waste of TBogg’s talent, but how he spends that is his business and not mine.
Take it all with a grain of salt. Your first post was well done, both rhetorically and substantively. It is OK to express your ideas assertively. If someone disagrees, let them say so. That’s how we collectively work through ideas and avoid echo chambers.
“Get a job, sir!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq0QJOLbl2E
Wow! Considering the piss poor way you were treated, yours was a magnanimous response. My respect to you.
Fuck you, sir. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. You think you can navigate my life so well, then let’s swap. Come on, asswipe, put your money where your mouth is.
You are a disgusting, arrogant, vile piece of shit, and any problems FDL might be having are probably due to your persistent infestation here. If you want to do Jane a favor, take your smug ass and throw it in front of a speeding Buick.
(Also, back in the realm of “logic”, where I know you have yet to reside, please feel free to articulate how you feel my [supposed] lack of get-up-and-go makes my critiques of Obama’s policies any less valid. What factual errors can you cite? What logical rebuttals can you post? Oh, yeah…”fucking idiot” and “get a job”.
As I said at the beginning, fuck you.)
“. . . it looks like I didn’t do a good a job as I had hoped.”
Bullshit. Don’t kid yourself, POP. You did a bang up job. Many of the folks who responded to your post with partisan, ad hominem attacks would have done so no matter how you worded your argument. You had ideas that challenged the articles of faith of some true believers and that took a poke at their religious dogmas. They responded as faithful, orthodox sectarians would by calling you a fool and a heretic. Don’t be flustered.
Your post was fine, even arguably reasonable. And your responses, in spite of the thin skinned gnashing of teeth and partisan flak you took, were considerate. In fact, your first post was better than most of the partisan posts that say nothing more than, “The other team sucks simply because they are not like us and therefore inherently bad.” Please keep it up. Your sort of thoughtfulness and decency are what make FDL appealing to me. I look forward to your next post.
For myself, I come to FDL for thoughtful analysis, good questions and different perspectives. If I was interested in partisan cheerleading–which fortunately has not reached a critical mass here–I’d read Free Republic or Daily Kos.
x2 on both points.
Oops, I see it turns out that my #236, above, DID post after all. Guess that means I probably shouldn’t have gone and pissed all over TBogg‘s thread out of frustration, huh? My bad.
I assume TBogg will pull a few strings, get Jane to ban me from the site. Well, too bad, but do I really want to be on a site where one of the “chosen few” gets to run around unchecked, spewing condescension, calling a new diarist a “fucking idiot” and snidely professing that the unemployed are just useless whiners who are too lazy to look for jobs?
Such a person shouldn’t even call himself a “Democrat”, much less a progressive. If Mr. Bogg has me banned for telling him what I think of him (none of it good, I assure you), then so be it. It’s been nice meeting all of you…well, most of you, anyways.
And why don’t I close with a quote from my least-favorite Buffyverse character, Spike?
“Now that was FUN!” Yes…it was, Spike. Yes, it was.
Peace.
(Unrelated random thought; amidst all the crowing about Obama’s re-election, I find myself wondering when was the last time an incumbent President was re-elected with worse numbers than his first time around? In other words, he pulled it out on partisan loyalty, not so much on his record. I think you’d have to go back to Woodrow Wilson in 1916, and that’s a fluke, because Wilson’s high EV count in 1912 was due to Teddy Roosevelt and Taft splitting the Republican tally. “Mandate” my fanny pack.)
One last, last note:
Well, I do see that I’ve got Mr. Bogg beat all hollow on syntax and the proper use of punctuation, but that doesn’t seem to be helping. Still, I’ll take what I can get.
Au revoir, mes amis!
BREAKING: The strategy favored by this diarist, employed by MN SEN Candidate Michael Cavlan, has proven results!
Less than 1% of the vote with 75% precincts reporting at the time of this writing.
So make sure purity trolling is a part of YOUR campaign! It’s a winnah!
I’m glad that you are happy that your sect’s leader was not voted off the island. But why would your religious victory be an opportunity to brag about not understanding the author’s argument?
Why would I go anywhere. I rarely post, I usually read. All I ever do is defend the right for anyone to have an opinion be that voting 3rd party or not voting. I don’t care. Especially if they give well thought out reasons for said opinions whether you or I agree or not. This was a great post, period. End of story. I see this “purity troll” thing being bandied about….in fact by Kelly Canfield. I don’t get it. TBogg comes on and says not voting is a retarded opinion then reams people who say they vote for Jill Stein then reams them out for considering voting for Romney. So in Mr TBogg’s mind not voting is retarded, voting for Romney is retarded, voting for Stein is purity retardedness. So he completely contradicts himself by stating not-voting and voting are both ridiculous. So it must ultimately come down to the only not ridiculous thing to do is voting for one guy. That is the only answer in his mind. Why does he care so much is what I can’t understand. He tried to answer in a previous answer to me, but I don’t get the objections at all. It’s ridiculous. Evidently all those non voters and purity retards cost Obama the election!!! Oh they didn’t?? That was pretty much my point all along
In summation principlesoverparty, this was high caliber stuff you posted. Please do some more. I even liked the snark at the end in your list of 6. You may end up with close to 300 replies, that don’t happen much. You scored big time.
Please don’t feed the TBagg.
The alternative would have been much, much worse, based on SCOTUS appointments alone.
I hope you don’t go unless they evict you. If they do in the context of TBogg’s vicious provocations here, I’d be interested to know. As about half of the FDL posts in the last year or two have amounted to partisan cheerleading/bashing, I’m hanging on only for the posts by Gosztola, Chen, and a few others (I miss Jeff Kaye).
TBogg’s Limbaugh-like approach and his promotion and “defense” of FDL via trying to exclude dissent–”Fuck off and go get your own blog”–is boring. While I appreciate that FDL is a business and that a sycophantic, prejudiced, shouting, mocking, tribalist approach may bring out the faithful to root for their team, I’m not interested in all that. The more this conformist, partisan, O’Reilly shit goes on, the less I think and learn by reading FDL.
Scrambler, did you catch this excellent post by Radicalee? It helps explain a lot regarding “purity trolling,” sectarianism, articles of faith, ad hominem attacks, lack of real dialogue, etc. Notice that none of the party faithful commented. (Well, perhaps they just missed it.)
http://my.firedoglake.com/radicalee/2012/10/28/american-religion-the-faith-of-politics/
In-fucking-deed. A post with a clear, reasonable argument that invited critique, that was well-written, had a sense of humor, and by an author decent enough not to be interested in scoring points through bashing a supposedly irreconcilable opponent.
A big thumbs-up to that.
That’s so hilarious. Cavlan managed, yet again, 0.5% of the vote, finishing dead last.
He got less than half of the votes of the guy who didn’t finish dead last, the weird looking guy with the huge beard. He’s got to feel great about that.
Maybe after 3 elections in 6 years with the same results, he’ll finally stop whining everywhere about how nobody loves him and go away..
Nice to see that the overwhelming majority of opinion here remains supportive of POP’s diary. That would not have been the case a few years ago, which IMO represents a significant step forward for FDL.
One point that I don’t think has received quite sufficient support is the inclusion of ‘You don’t vote’ in his/her list. As noted earlier, not voting (or, equivalently, writing in something like “Medicare for All” as suggested here a couple of years ago, which I in fact did in two cases in 2010) is ALWAYS a legitimate way to indicate that none of the choices offered for a particular position is acceptable (though it only makes that point effectively if you DO vote for other offices to make sure that the lack of support can be seen in the eventually tallies). Not voting was certainly on my own list of options this year, and would have received serious consideration if NH did not count write-ins (since none of the legitimately progressive Presidential candidates appeared on our ballot). By contrast, voting for Obama was not on my list at all, so had write-ins not been permitted my choices would have been between not voting for President at all and voting for Romney.
I expanded it to “vote for a whale, send Tony to jail” — BP’s Tony Hayward, who in the end got his life back pretty easy, unlike the Gulf. I was trying to be clear.
Yup.
Meanwhile, those of us who voted in all of the races on the ballot got to see both the voter and marriage restriction amendments defeated, a respected US Senator beat her strongest foe (a member of the Tea Party’s Ron Paul faction, Kurt Bills), the DFL returned to majority status in the legislature, and the passage of a school referendum for the City of Saint Paul.
But of course elections are meaningless, right?