I’m so torqued off right now I could spit. Perhaps it’s because I’m a mom and I’ve dealt with enough temper tantrums to last me a lifetime. But I’m tired of the whining I see and hear about the lack of democratization in progressive organizations, and about the ineffectiveness of these groups, specifically Organizing for America and MoveOn.org.
Yeah, these groups are in tough shape. But the challenge is really YOU.
YOU have the power — it’s just not with OFA and MoveOn. It’s actually rather disappointing to see that readers are supposed to assume these are the only two progressive organizations out there. Both groups cited have pointed limitations apart from democratization.
Until only a few months ago, MoveOn was an online organization which punctuated the face-to-face world only at election time on races of national importance. MoveOn was a first for progressives in that it captured the energy of the disenfranchised but wired left starting in 1998 as an email group, but it did not have a physical state/local infrastructure, so efforts and democratization was naturally limited to national issues voted on by participants located across the internet. It’s been nearly 12 years since MoveOn launched, and it’s still heavily online and only limitedly represented on the ground; don’t you think by now that progressives should understand this fundamental limitation?
Organizing for America was the remnants of the Obama campaign, which means that from the start it was hampered by the lack of a unifying mission and vision since the original goal around which it had organized — the election of Obama — had been realized. Without an immediate regrouping to shape a new mission and vision with clear objectives, OFA floundered. It was also co-opted by a struggling Democratic National Committee which has been equally rudderless under the leadership of VA Gov. Tim Kaine.
And about the DNC: those of you who are not Democratic Party activists need to understand there is a cycle of events dictated by the party’s charter. The cycle includes the election of a party chair every two years; after a Democratic president has been elected to office, tradition dictates that the new president and his team have considerable power to earmark the new party chair who takes the helm at the DNC after inauguration.
Which should explain to you why the highly effective former Gov. Howard Dean, the man who set in motion the 50-State Strategy which enabled Obama for America’s campaign, is no longer the DNC chair. No, Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, has had an ongoing feud with Dean and instead of sticking with effectiveness opted for a pawn who would ensure that the party did what Emanuel wanted. The members of the DNC comprised of representatives from each state party, voted to follow tradition. (I suspect there would be a revolt if an election for party chair was held today.)
So OFA has been doing what the DNC chair and in turn the White House chief of staff have wanted up until this time: they floundered and waited in a kind of invisible cage allowing themselves to be called "fucking retarded" if they ever tried to escape and demand real change, while the foot soldiers they’d recruited and engaged in 2008 slipped away.
And now the whining about the lack of democratization and ineffectiveness..
Frankly, real activists know where the action has been all along. They know that there are more than two progressive organizations which get stuff done.
Some of them also know that the Democratic Party continues to be ripe for a coup, because there is a power vacuum from top to bottom of the organization. You want to democratize progressive activism? you can actually take over the Dem Party at this point if you tried. Been there, doing it, new party chair who is a hard core progressive to be elected in a scant two weeks, and we’ve already been reshaping local and state politics since 2004. Have you checked to see if there’s a progressive caucus within your state’s Democratic Party? Are they organizing enough caucus members to shape and create the agenda and platform of the state party? There’s one route to real change.
Democracy for America is another; it has a boots-on-the-ground organization, and it’s been working on getting progressives elected to office from bottom to top of the food chain since its inception. Its mission is to get progressives elected to office and once there, keep them in office. Just look at their website and you will see state/local progressives they are endorsing and supporting in their run for office (This I know well as I’m a local organizer, have been since 2004).
Progressive Democrats of America also has a boots-on-the-ground organization, although it’s thin and needs more groups across the country (I know I need to look into having one set up in our locale). They also work on getting real progressives elected to office; they also work on shaping Democratic policy (again, been there, done it as a task force member).
There’s more groups out there, but you have to take the time and energy to look. Once you find them, you have to make the commitment required to create a thriving, effective, and sustainable. organization.
And if you can’t find a local progressive organization to work with, MAKE ONE. It’s not rocket science. Go to Meetup.com, create a regular meetup, start working with a group of like-minded invidividuals – but I’d start by checking to see if some other equally frustrated progressives don’t already have something set up in Meetup.com.
The founding fathers didn’t sit around whining about the lack of democratization; they got off their butts and they did something about it. They swore with their lives and on their honor and committed themselves to making change happen. They certainly didn’t wait for some big all-powerful organization to come to them and ask how they could get their wish for democracy granted. I know my kids are learning about the founding fathers in their history and government classes right now, and they aren’t hearing about who waited and talked about democracy and the process of realizing one; they’re learning about activists who actually made democracy happen.
To realize democratization both as a progressive and as a citizen, it’s going to take the same kind of commitment from you. Oh, and you won’t even have to swear your life and honor to do this. Better get moving, because real progressives are already working on fundraising, endorsements, literature drops and door-knocking, website design, social media planning, organizing candidate forums and phonebanking. We could use your help.
And if you do a really great job, you’ll find OFA and MoveOn are calling you for help. I’ll answer their emails when I have time, really I will. But right now this mother has laundry and real progressive work to do.



197 Comments




http://www.blogandwhite.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/waldorf_stettler.jpg” alt=”Hear hear
Hear Hear!
Right on.
Even if you don’t think the Democratic party can be turned more progressive you can work for real change. Use Meetup. Meet, find tasks that advance what you collectively want and work on them.
After the 50 state strategy gave congress and the Presidency to Democrats, they have just extended the “Patriot” Act with no change.
The U.S. government system is broken and is not affected by U.S. elections.
thanks, great post!
A great post, Rayne. We need a little starch in the spine.
The life of a revolutionary would be quite impossible without a certain amount of “fatalism.”
-Trotsky
I get so disprited when I see some of the comments here. Not because the criticisms aren’t justified, but because everyone seems far more interested in being right than trying to come up with constructive solutions to the problems we face. It just seems like we’re largely aware of what our obstacles is and are in general agreement of what’s being done wrong, but we never seem to get to the point of brainstorming about what different approaches we can take to push things in our direction. I’m not saying I have all the answers, but it just seems to me that even if you agree with these positions, just shouting “Obama = corporate sellout”, “kill the bill”, etc., isn’t going to get us anywhere.
That’s because there is no current way to.
Marching? didn’t work out so well in the 60′s and is doing nothing for the tea party..also they just tend to get ignored when it’s from our side like the gay march last year.
Phone banking / mailbombing Senators? We’re already doing that..and props to FDL for doing it.
We’re trying to take over the party from the inside but that’s really slow and also it won’t work so well because of the role money plays in campaigns.
The only actual solution left is some form of Revolution, but there’s not the will for it yet.
There are 192,480 precinct leadership positions out there for the plucking. The ones that are easier to get are the ones in majority-Republican areas. Deliver your precinct in a few elections, you might get a county leadership position. Deliver your county in a few elections, you might get a state leadership position because you know how to turn a Republican county into a Democratic one. And despite the fact that most people think folks are born with a conservative gene or a progressive gene, you can change a conservative county to a progressive one, with most of the same people being there. I saw it work in the other direction in NC over the past 30 years and then start to move back.
It’s true.
Saying “nobody is offering constructive solutions” isn’t going to get us anywhere either, though.
Excellent post, Rayne. Thank you.
PDA in our area was a struggling org in 06 when I was campaign treasurer for Samm Simpson. The guy who acted as campaign manager but without the title was active with PDA and is now the local rep for PDA. We’ve gotten a couple local folks elected. While they’re called progressives these folks are really on the Left. Great organization to get involved in.
Great post. Ditto on the Mom work.
Yes! Thanks, Rayne. For a while now I’ve been hoping for an independent party / organization of the Left composed of genuine grassroots. I think FDL had a great idea with its “Fire Dog” poll and the recent reader surveys, allowing FDL readers to decide on where to focus its resources.
However, I’d like to see the Netroots take it a step further: why not form an organization with general progressive princples; formal, public membership (and some sort of validation process); secure, internal, instant-runoff elections and initiatives; and web-based tools for both national and local action.
A little reality here…
We’re not interested in “tasks” that need to be done. We won’t be going door to door anymore. We won’t be giving much money, except to favorites and third party candidates. Its over.
Never in my entire history, and in the history that I have read, have I ever seen a more dishonest takeover of the liberal, anti-war movement. It has literally been destroyed by a man that no one knows. A man that threw his entire constituency overboard, a man who gave our future away to Wall Street, and is still giving. A man that watched millions lose their homes and jobs, refusing to even acknowledge the trade agreements that are killing us. And the fact that OBAMA IS THE PRIMARY FORCE BEHIND THE REJECTION OF ANY TALK OF PUBLIC OPTION, WHICH IS ALL WE CAN AFFORD AND ALL WE WANT AND ALL THAT WILL REALLY SAVE MONEY AND WORK.
This is a man that enshrined the argument of torture, instead of abhorring it. This is a man that is fully intent upon killing our young people, IN MEANINGLESS, ENDLESS WAR, to further the goals of the world corporations.
THE WHOLE WORD “PROGRESSIVE” WAS A SETUP. No one should even use that word. It means nothing. It was taken from a time in the past that will never come again. It was a fake word… Whyis it irrelevent? It came from a time that people believed and trusted government. That will never happen again… Because of people like Obama.
And this is a man, who, because of his spineless deceit, has ensured US AND OUR COUNTRY to a RETURN TO the GOVERNANCE OF THE repulsive PARTY OF WAR, the repulsive PARTY OF HATE and a repusive story of endless poverty and lack of hope, so that we can, once again, discredit it.
Discussions like this article are too late, too irrelevent, too blind and too much in denial. Give it up. Its better that way. IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE A FORCE FOR THE FUTURE, YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO GIVE UP THE KOOL AID AND “MAN UP” ABOUT THE truth about Obama. I don’t see that happening here. These blogs are becoming such a hopeless scene, a desolate place.
It has to be said, repeatedly. Because it’s true and too many Dems/people/citizens are looking for Hope based governance. One cannot beginn to find or push sincerely for working solutions until they realize who we have now is part of the problem.
Fantastic post, Rayne.
I really want to set up disturbing art installations. Like get a bunch of artists to create quick-to-assemble guillotines, have some roadies take them to the front of the capital, White House, Wall Street and various corporate headquarters, assemble them at 6 a.m. and get the press out right after.
I think it would be fun at any rate. They don’t have to work. And replications would make nice necklaces. Gothy and political.
Maybe we could have Lion yarns or Etsy as a sponsor and have knitting lessons.
You have to think video. Part of the reason Tea Parties get attention (aside from the corporate/MSM angle) is that they are visually interesting. All those misspellings and mockable people make good TV. It works for the reality TV zeitgeist. It has to be visually interesting so the YouTube stuff goes viral and it has a shot of getting picked up.
Thanks for stopping by.
I suggest that you send that to the WH. Someone, probably not the President, will read it.
If you let people like Obama, Rahm, or the vast MSM take “progressive” from you, they will just take the next word you use (Liberal, Socialist, DFH, educated/elite) in the same manner.
Stand up for stuff like this… and don’t let yourself be co-opted by people who simply abuse language .. at least not without a fight.
Marching worked out damned well in the 60′s. It’s what kicked started the Civil Rights Movement into high gear. It was so effective that Nixon had to gun down kids at Kent State to put an end to it.
Amen. I’m not sure what a progressive is, but I doubt there are enough of them and I doubt they have enough money to overthrow the DLC. Only the working class has the muscle to overcome corporate rule. The party that organizes and mobilizes the working class, whether its the Democratic Party or the Halloween Party, will be the party to seize power from the entrenched oligarchs.
It isn’t worth doing if it is not right. “Constructive solutions” must be right, not just practical.
Hello Rayne,
I can’t help but think this diary was a response to one I wrote last night announcing a new blog called Democratize the Progressive Movement. I think you make a number of valid points, but I want to address a few of your criticisms.
First, let’s put aside the Democratic Party organization. What I’m talking about is a social movement that focuses on issues and whose goals are not confused by the interests of people who are trying to be elected to office. I think David Sirota does an excellent job of drawing the distinction between a movement and a political party on his blog at http://www.openleft.com/user/David%20Sirota.
Second, my earlier post grew directly out of my experiences trying to get engaged locally in progressive organizing. I found OFA to largely act as Obama’s foot soldiers, whether he was on the right side of an issue or not. The local DFA and PDA groups where I live are unfortunately a shell of an organization – I’m still working on them, but they do not (yet) have an inkling of democratic process, not to mention any resources or plan for being effective. OFA appears to be the only group that brings some real organizational heft to local “organizing,” just in a very top-down fashion.
And yes, I know there is MeetUp, etc., and people doing this work on their own, without a national organization behind them. For instance, in my neck of the woods, one person started a group called Grow the Hope, which is exactly the kind of democratic, community-based organizing I would like to highlight on my blog. (And I encourage anyone reading this to send me or to post your stories!)
My point is that we already have this massive, sophisticated progressive infrastructure in place, and we should urge those who control it and are part of it to use their capacity to support more of the democratic type of work that Grow the Hope is doing and less of the top-down messaging that we’ve all become accustomed to. It is absolutely a call for all of us to get off the couch and get active, but to also make democratic organizing integral to the work of major progressive organizations, so it does not just exist on the margins.
One final note about the founding fathers not “waiting for some big, all-powerful organization” to grant their wish for democracy. In fact, they made their case for representation quite well-known to the British, and when that did not work, they used the full weight of their organizing power to create democratic local groups that pushed for a democratic government. OFA et al are not just some “all-powerful organizations” the same way our government is looked at as a foreign entity by conservatives. OFA belongs to us – we are the people who built it during the Obama campaign. It and other large organizations have an unprecedented opportunity to reshape the progressive movement, and my argument is that using these organizations’ power and resources to support democratic local organizing is essential to making a progressive movement effective.
slap!…thanks I needed that.
Thank you for writing that lengthy comment, so that I did not have to write it. I just have to say, I agree with every word you said.
The eternal hope/wish/prayer for a free do-over is the curse of the naive and the indoctrinated. Anyone who can’t see that the system is hopelessly rigged against regular people must still be checking under their pillow for Tooth Fairy deposits. Sometimes, you just have to acknowledge you can’t make up for what you’ve lost by continuing to play the same rigged game by the same rigged rules. Defeats have consequnces, and they are lasting consequences. And while they hope next time will work out better, the situation and the list of options just keeps getting worse.
Rayne left out the most important part about the Founding Fathers–they recognized when debate had become irrelevant, and they fought for their freedom.
The only party I would be inclined to join or support, with all the facts available, would be one that forthrightly called itself The Revolutionary Party. Come to think of it, that one might even win elections now.
The civil rights marching worked out well. The later marching by the hippies, not so much. Nixon got elected in 1968 and reelected in 1972 by white working- and middle-class people who disagreed with him politically, but couldn’t stand the hippies who were their nominal political allies.
Why? Because Dr. King was alive to control how the civil rights marchers presented themselves. Guess what? They didn’t go round pissing off the people they needed to persuade, Mister and Missus White Middle America.
We need a little starch in the spine.
And some rebar wouldn’t hurt, either…
Do you suppose starch and rebar implants are in the HCR bills?
Well done, Rayne. However, coming between Rahm and the levers of power is just like stepping between Biden and a network television camera.
I’m skeptical about that (the kicking into high gear part)…it seems like much more work had been done before hand.
but even if I grant your premise, show me a modern instance of a march being effective.
Are you yelling? Because I can hear you just fine. Thanks.
MLK marches. Anti-Vietnam war marches. Haven’t had any since.
Hi Phoenix Woman,
One note that I’d add to your comment. The civil rights movement operated in much the same fashion as what I’m talking about – a network of democratic local chapters (e.g., CORE) coordinating with each other nationally but with voting processes in place to figure out strategies, tactics, etc. It wasn’t just about Martin Luther King telling everyone what to do. The issue is that democratic process is still practiced within the Democratic Party, the union movement, etc., but has become a lost art for the progressive social movement as a whole. That’s why I think we need to democratize the progressive movement, beginning with organizations like OFA that have real potential to be effective.
Michael, you need to get over yourself. Seriously.
Just trying to help, ’cause with an opening like that, people might not take your further words seriously.
Good luck with that.
As Saul Alinsky, perhaps the most effective organizer of the past century, said four decades ago in Rules for Radicals (a book that, just as Alinsky feared, was studied and heeded far more by righties than lefties):
I truly believe that Obama and the Democrats made a deal with the right wing cartel that allowed him to get elected. What would it look like if it were the Republicans ‘in charge’ and they let all the criminals of the previous administration, including Bush and Cheney, off the hook? There might actually have been a populist uprising against the shear brazenness and illegality.
But Obama and his regime could do it, because his supporters took their eye off the ball by believing that he really was the bill of goods he sold so well on the campaign trail.
Obama and the Rahm team knew that no one would hold their feet to the fire even as they worked against everything the American people wanted and voted for, because by the time Obama supporters woke up to the fact that he is actually the second coming of Bush, it would be too late. The most important issues of the day would already be decided in favor of the monied elite, and the courts, still packed with right wing ideologues, would have already destroyed the last of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
And the future? Well, the right wing wet dream would finally be on a solid road to reality: America, the land of corporate and Congressional plutocracy, with endless war and occupation; starving, homeless and sick masses who work cheap, and Jesus waiting right there to waterboard you if you whisper of word of dissent. Ain’t democracy grand?
KEEP YELLING, TROPICGIRL. WE NEED A LOT MORE YELLING, AND A LOT LESS CIVILIZED AND ERUDITE DISCOURSE!!!! imho
We haven’t done the organizing from bottom-up, and across the entire country. It’s a critical problem that we don’t have a solid umbrella organization and infrastructure to do this. We have the beginnings of one, but some of the “power gods” do what they can to undermine this so that it cannot go forward. We need to find a way to do something about the lack of a “machine.”
Let’s look at Rahm Emanuel, Tim Kaine and the DNC. They could have continued the highly successful programs that were begun under the Dean years at the DNC, but they decided to squelch them instead. Ask yourself why. My personal answer — you’ll have your own, of course — is that an organic structure with a strong leader and a solid plan cannot be readily controlled by corporatists within the ranks of the Dem Party. They’d rather burn it to the ground than try to deal with reining it in, or try to do what the constituents want of them.
So how do we fix it? We hollow it out and take it back, electing our own party leaders and cut the legs out from underneath them, and we develop organizations on the outside which go around them and which place enormous pressure on them in terms of attention and money.
I won’t give one gawddamned cent to the DNC; I tell them that when they call, that I’ll think about it when Kaine is gone. I work on getting local Dem Party leaders who are real progressives elected so that there is better blood in the organization, and I do my share to work on supporting solid candidates from school board to judges to congressional candidates (right now I’m formulating social media for a judicial candidate).
But it’s going to take time and awareness and commitment; it’s going to take conscious effort to build a progressive machine which rivals the one the conservatives had for 30 years. And simply sitting on the sidelines bitching isn’t going to get the work done.
But it was still organized. It was people doing unglamorous doorknocking. It was people understanding that you don’t get people on your side by acting like narcisstic jerks. (That was why Dr. King’s civil disobedience worked so well: Their opponents reacted to it violently and revealed their true selves to TV news cameras.)
Put your razor down and no one gets hurt.
You’re one of the newbies, aren’t you. I’m an oldie and we use to have conversations that were civil, without yelling. If an argument has strength, we don’t have to use three or four exclamation points and use capital letters.
But, thanks for your concern.
I’m concerned too.
People actually listen to your arguments?
The oligarchy learns and adjusts its strategies. Marching no longer works, organizing in the same way we did in the 60′s, 70′s and 80′s no longer works. The paradigm has shifted and we need to be creative to figure out new ways to topple the power structure.
Part of it is our messaging, part of it is the media infrastructure in this country, and part of it is our actual organizing. Look at how white, middle-class and educated progressive groups tend to be. Why aren’t we more successful in bringing in allies from across the cultural spectrum?
I’ve been working from within my local party structure for several years now, and I don’t see any progress toward affecting the old boy network at the state level. I really think we need a new game plan.
I would recommend finding away to work together in a HUGE way with groups representing African American, Latino and other cultural groups and then investing time, money, energy into shifting the media landscape. We have no hope of getting a rational message out there when the right has such control of information in this country.
To do that, though, is going to take more commitment from supporters than just writing angry letters to congressman or the occasional letter to the editor. But I’m afraid its our only hope.
We need to influence much more than just the framing of news shows, but how issues are framed in crime dramas, sit-coms, etc. We don’t have the $$ that funds the right, so I’m not sure how we go about doing this, but we need to figure out a way.
Otherwise, I’m afraid we’re just spinning our wheels.
A little more reality here in response.
Tell me who’s in the pipeline. Seriously.
Who is the real progressive candidate in the pipeline who could have won in 2008? Who is the real progressive candidate in the pipeline who will run in 2012 and win?
There’s no fucking pipeline of progressive candidates because people enjoying bitching about it instead of doing anything about it, and blaming everybody else for the failure of the pipeline.
Sure, point to one or two of the most likely suspects who are in Congress now. Are they going to be ready in 2012? and will they be able to amass enough votes to win a primary?
Until you figure out that happens and work to get it done, it’s all just so much hot freaking air.
Exactly. DFA is where a lot of Dean’s people are in residence after Rahm took over. They’re the shadow DNC, in many ways.
The funny thing about Dean is that the whole reason he was given the DNC chair job was because a) it was a sop to those of us who donated $40 million to his 2003-4 campaign, an amount that was worth it because Dean’s presence as a contender made it impossible for hard-core Iraq hawks like Lieberman or Gephardt to get onto the ticket, and b) they didn’t think he’d actually do anything — which is why they were shocked to see that he meant exactly what he said when he told us “YOU have the power to take your country back”.
Have a lozenge.
You know, Eli Pariser of MoveOn said about the Democratic Party, “We bought it, we own it, it’s ours,” back in 2004.
Oh, OFA is all yours. Ri-ight.
Until you figure out how the machine really works, you’re going to be on the outside looking in.
Yup. The same people, or their spriritual descendants, that Saul Alinsky zinged for being more hindrance than help are the ones clogging the progressive bandwidth today.
Its worth looking at the list of endorsements on DFA’s site that Rayne linked. They endorsed Corzine (Former Goldmann Sachs CEO) in NJ for petes sake.
The “lesser of two evils approach” isnt going to solve anything, and alot of their endorsements at best could only be seen as that. If LOTE is your stragety, you have already lost.
Oh and they endorsed Barack Obama. Hows that working our for ya?
Yeah, I’d like to see that example myself.
Because I’ve got examples which show they don’t work.
Like this one.
And these.
As a war strategist posited, “No campaign plan survives first contact with the enemy.” The enemy is in more places than scrowder’s plan grasps, and the enemy in no small part is the media. The corporatists’ own mouthpiece will not show marches against their owners, it’s simply not part of their business model.
Come up with something better, more focused which will punctuate the enemies’ defenses.
I’m not a newbie, I’m a regular here for about five or six years. Only my handle is new/recent, from when the site got reorganized last year. I used to use my real name, but, frankly, my identitty should count for less than the quality of the arguments I make. And yes, some are persuaded by them, which does not surprise me, because I was, long ago, a lawyer who never lost a case.
So, i know you and your commenting style quite well by now, and do not mean to disrespect you, but I find yours are usually characterized by a tone of moderation and reasonableness, and I have no quarrel with that, but I am increasingly convinced that polite discourse, no matter how insightful, has become irrelevant because our entire movement has allowed itself to be outflanked by forces that operate on the basis of POWER rather than reason.
So, a little shouting would seems to me to be the very least I can do in response. I don’t mean to bruise your ears, just to open them to a new paradigm. There are times in history when rage is the only means to change.
Everyone knows the DIMS, and Progressives, unfortunately, don’t understand rule 1 about strategy. They remind me of the writers over at the Nation Magazine, constantly pontificating about things that everyone knows the answer to (like how the world should be). Are they just stroking their own ego’s? These “great visionaries” don’t get much accomplished when it comes to bringing about change. What these “great writer’s” should be doing NOW, is actually figuring out how to get Progressives elected in the shortly arriving PRIMARIES!!!!!
They were selected and endorsed by LOCAL people first. The endorsement process requires that local constituents have some input in the process.
Or is this not a democracy any longer, where people choose their representatives?
I hope the other “oldies” aren’t so smug and condescending.
There are three kinds of knowledge:
What we know
What we know we don’t know
What we don’t know we don’t know
That third, what we don’t know we don’t know, is huge ans is what we are dealing with here. The degree to which important knowledge is hidden from the general public to the extent we don’t know anything exists, far exceeds the other two categories, and is where we have to start. Asking “What is it I don’t know I don’t know?” about our government and proceeding to unearth this information is the first and most important step on the road to real change. How in hell are any changes going to happen if we don’t know that there are buttons to push and which button really works? The buttons we do have aren’t connected.
That’s what I do when I’m not writing here.
I’m a precinct and party delegate. I work on whipping votes for legislature and ballot initiatives, and I work on local campaigns. I’m a frequent writer/submitter of resolutions to the local and state party — in fact, I’ll bet I was one of the earliest participants in FDL’s drive to get a resolution for the public option passed by the local party. I managed to get it passed unanimously by three organizations, and have faxed signed copies to our state’s congressional delegation several times as a reminder.
What are you doing?
Don’t need one yet, maybe later, thanks.
I can’t help but note that your very name means “halfway.” Perhaps that is the problem, and the source of our disagreement.
I asked for modern marches please. the 60′s was 50 years ago dude…and I wasn’t even alive yet.
I just refuse to accept that the only way forward is violent revolution. For one thing, if a change that massive is needed, it has to come from the ground up. Right now there’s widespread agreement about what the problems are in some instances, but generally no agreement throughout the country about what the best solutions are. Personally, I think we as progressives need to think about different ways to get our message out and contact what I see as a concerted disinformation campaign from the mainstream media.
Maybe not. But at least we’re starting a discussion here, which is great to see.
Is that message really getting through to people who aren’t receptive to it, though? I don’t mean to diminish the work lots of great journalists are doing on this or other blogs, but the bare fact is we are not reaching the audience we need. I think we definitely need to concentrate on, among other things, more concerted and possibly more dramatic ways to get our message across.
So we shouldn’t try things because they might not work? Sitting and pondering the problem till we come up with a perfect solution doesn’t sound like a very proactive strategy to me.
When corporate power (corzine) basically buys that “people” support, then its not a reflection of democracy anyway.
I think you have as many good arguments if not more, in claiming that the US is as much a fascist state as it is a democracy. Obama is a great example of that. People actually did support what he was articulating as Candidate Obama, but once in power, all that rhetoric was left behind.
You just sound like we should keep putting our support behind “electable” people, which is basically surrendering before even fighting.
Until more and more people refuse to continue to vote for people who dont end up representing their intrests at all, then why should these politicians ever pay attention to us?
Lets say we have a primary next pres cycle and Kucinich, a real progressive with a looong record to prove it, challenges Obama. No way he could win, so by your logic, we should just keep voting for Obama, because he can win.
Again, if politicians can do whatever they want, and I will just vote for them again anyway because the supposed only other choice looks even worse, why would these politicians ever take actions that I cared about? Apparently I will just vote for them anyway.
There is no fixing the side of the corporate party named “The Democrats”. We need to vote for third parties, and if we win seats great. If not, at least maybe if they lose enough of our votes, they will start to actually deliver on some of their promises, because they might acutally fear we wont vote for them.
Sufi, I feel your pain. We’d put in the legwork, won our local party back, then lost it during one election by a handful of votes. We forgot how we did it. This coming week we won’t forget again.
I don’t know about your situation in particular, but let me guess that you and others like you need to do two things:
– become strong parliamentarians, or recruit some people who are;
– learn how to stack the vote.
We lost the election and the local board chair because we forgot that week to do a headcount. We should have called every single progressive, asked them for their vote, asked them to show up, made sure we had extra votes. And we should have started the process 40 days before the election, by making sure everybody’s dues were paid in full and that they were eligible to vote. We forgot how much it hurt to learn this the first time, and we took it for granted that people would show up.
This time we didn’t.
I think you may want to look at your state’s progressive organizations and ask them if they would consider a forum where they all meet to talk about your state’s unique situation and develop action plans. Keep in mind there may be campaign/election laws which regulate interaction. At a minimum, there should be a meeting between all the progressive bloggers in your state so that communications and plans can be shared. It can be done, it’s going to take more time and effort.
And eventually those good old boys die, too. I’m watching them fading in my local party, send them flowers and get well cards and smile when I see them, and I hear the clock ticking. Tick-tock. Heh.
“Or is this not a democracy anymore, where the people choose their representatives.”
Substitute “Big Corporations” for “people,” and you’ve defined the problem, which is about to get even worse, despite your best efforts, SEE Citizens United.
What does work? Point to it, then start organizing people around it.
Just doing something for the sake of doing anything wastes time and resources.
We have a local organization which has a monthly vigil against the war. They may feel good about it when they’re done, but after 7 years it’s not working. They could be spending that time recruiting, grooming, training a candidate to run on an antiwar platform, could have raised funds for them, could have forced the incumbent to take a stand more to the left on military financing.
But no, they stood outside in the rain, cold, sleet for the last 7 years. It’s kind of like saving your soul by wearing a hair shirt and self-flogging.
Hardly a strong argument for the effectiveness of your approach. I’m just sayin’ . . .
No. I’m not saying we should merely get behind electable people. Who was the alternative in 2008? Really, who was there?
There are not enough progressives in the pipeline, haven’t been for years, and bitching about Obama doesn’t change that fact one whit.
This dynamic won’t change without an investment in process and people, and it’s going to take time and effort, not whining.
You do a lot of “jus’ sayin’.”
Indeed. More dramatic, at the least. As the society continues to coarsen, it takes more to have an impact.
Well, I think you’re absolutely right about the reasons why the 50-state strategy has been dismantled. I wouldn’t have believed it a year ago, but watching the Democrats and WH play like the 1919 White Sox for the past year has been something of an education. And it is frustrating that we don’t have anything like the resources available to the other side, and that at least partially as a result, we keep having to start seemingly from scratch.
I definitely agree with the idea of taking back the party from the inside, and putting pressure on them from the ground up. One thing I see as a problem is the more people we elect and the more our organizations gain influence, the greater the temptation for them to surrender their ethics to keep the money flowing in and their standing alive. I think one way to counteract that is to find new and different ways to sway public opinion over to us, because this is where we keep running into trouble. Our ideas are right, but we constantly find ourselves being shouted down by what is pretty much mass media propaganda at this point. I think while we’re working on reclaiming the party, we should also be thinking about tactics to get our message across to a larger number of people that bypass the mainstream media while still communicating in ways that are easy to understand and appeal to people’s so-called better angels.
I didn’t know what I didn’t know until I took the plunge and got involved.
It was mind-boggling. I really thought there were adults in charge most of my adult life, and it was paradigm-shattering to find out we were being led by default.
That’s right, leadership by default. The unions had always picked the guy to run the party, and the rest of the non-union party just coasted. When the unions collapsed, they kept up the pretense and we got dickheads running the party on behalf of the good old boy network.
No wonder at all our system operates the way it does; in a state of nearly 10 million people, only 25 people per county actively do anything on a regular basis to ensure there’s Democrats running for office. That’s roughly 2000 people, and only a third of them are hard core progressives.
No freaking wonder.
Your mileage may vary in your locale, but I’d take the bet it’s pretty similar.
Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are both honorable people with long records to back up the rhetoric they stump on.
If you are arguing Obama was a better choice, then I want no part of what you are selling, because it would just be a large helping of corporate swill.
Sorry if that stung, but if the truth hurts, maybe you should pay attention. It just may be the case that your enemy wants you to dissipate all your energy doing what you are doing, rather than something more active and disruptive to their interests?
And “just sayin” is all the Mods permit me to do here, else I get put in the corner.
Well, yes. I’m definitely not advocating sticking with actions that have long since proven their ineffectiveness. I guess my point was more along the lines of we don’t necessarily know what new ideas will be effective unless we think of some and put them in place. As for what does work, man, I wish I knew. But I definitely think having a discussion about it beats complaining about Politico articles all to hell.
Dennis Kucinich has shown he cannot pull together a critical mass of votes. Nice guy, can’t do it. Do a post-mortem and figure out why.
Ron Paul is a racist misogynistic pig. No REAL progressive should ever, ever vote for a man who meets with white nationalists.
Gimme a better choice. Seriously.
Sting? Pshaw.
You’re using a wet noodle.
But then maybe that’s why you’re not particularly effective.
You just did what I said you did and you said you didnt. You are only chosing by “electablity” which is exactly what the corporate media is selling.
Infact, the more I read your responses throughout this thread, I am starting to wonder which democratic establishment organization is paying you to shill for them.
Care to give us your real name so we can google it and see whose payroll you are on?
Also, are you an Obama supporter? You sure are sounding like it without flat out stating it, which is another thing that begs the question of who is paying you to write that post, and all your responses.
Dear Rayne,
What is taking Democracy for America so long to endorse Marcy Winograd? Any truly “progressive” organization would heartily support her for her credentials alone. Add to that the fact she is running against the shameful Jane Harmon and this makes the decision a no-brainer if there ever was one.
If you need to break the mod policy to make your argument, it isn’t a helpful one.
Oh great, purity trolling. That’ll give us a progressive takeover in no time.
I’m using the wet noodle? I’m the one not being effective?
Got mirror?
And your approach is more effective how?
VOTES.
GET THE VOTES.
Show me the votes, buddy. Seriously. He can’t do it.
And no, I’m not on any organizations’ or campaigns’ payroll. I am a delegate of the local Dem Party, which requires me to be neutral to all Democrats running for office, but since I write most of the party’s resolutions, I can also make sure there’s a record of votes on issues when candidates come calling.
I am also a volunteer for a local judicial race.
And I’m a board member for a state-wide progressive Dem caucus.
In other words, I actually eat the dog food, I’m living what I’m telling you. And I regularly see poorly organized candidates who have good intentions but cannot win their own party’s votes, whether they be progressives or ConservaDems.
You got a better candidate? Work for them, put in the legwork. But don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, because I’m doing all I physically can to get progressives elected.
And no, Obama was NOT my first choice.
So if a politician promises x, y, and z, and once elected doesnt do any of them, you are going to vote for them again, because the other party looks worse?
You know there are more than two parties, right?
I’m not sure I follow this exactly. Are you saying that people should stop wasting their time identifying mistakes by Obama and other Democrats? Or are you saying that going to a physical meeting is the only way to persuade others? I could guess at a bunch of things that might be what your after but it almost seems to boil down to the idea that blogs are a waste of time especially if they cover the misdeeds of Democrats.
As a person that a few years ago spent a number of weekends going out with others on a local central street to protest the invasion of Iraq I can truthfully say that it assuaged my sense of guilt but didn’t change the course of action in the least. If we all think that the system is seriously broken but believe that the best course of action is to proceed as though it isn’t then nothing, nothing will be fixed. I for one am not going to become a single issue voter, a mirror image of the broken Republican constituencies that keep taking abuse from their leadership because of just one thing. The reason FDR was pushed to the left was because of the non-Democrats, unionists and socialists, that forced the discourse to a place that he was obliged to follow. If the Democrats are too busy triangulating and receiving lobbyist favors to be effective that does not mean I’m required to be satisfied with their results.
Re: Marcy Winograd
You understand that the Congressional (Supposed) Progressive Caucus is supporting her Blue Dog opponent, Jane Harmon, don’t you? At least their co-chair is actually fund raising for Harmon.
Man, I voted for Nader in 2000. I still want to believe it was the right thing at the time, but you have to admit the results were somewhat lacking.
It is possible for people to disagree with you without being your enemy.
Ron Paul is a racist misogynistic pig.
Your credibility just went in the toilet.
You are a delegate of the democratic establishment. So you are basically here shilling for that force. Well, nice talking to you, but from my perspective, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. You aid and abet the corporate establishment, which controls both parties.
I wish you personally well, but your work the worst of luck. I’ll leave you to propogandize in peace now.
foucault, that’s a good question. Winograd isn’t from my state, so I’m not certain who to ask.
But here’s what I’d ask first:
– Did Winograd actually apply for endorsement from DFA?
– Did DFA follow-up with Winograd?
– Did DFA follow-up with the DFA folks in her state?
– Did the state/local branches of DFA also ask DFA for her endorsement?
You can contact DFA directly through their website and ask about status. I do know this time of year in an election cycle there’s generally a rush of candidates who are seeking endorsement; don’t be surprised if they tell you there’s a backlog.
But here’s another step you can take in the mean time, which is contact the state/local folks — you can do that through DFAlink.com as a member — and ask them to make local endorsements she can use.
Well, I just think that certain kinds of active things should at least be discussed, and that makes the Mods uncomfortable, which I understand from their POV, but which does not necessarily mean it would not be helpful.
Let me try to be helpful. Once upon a time, I was a media speecialist at a major advertising agency. The reason we can’t get our message out effectively is because our enemies control the numbers-generating machinery and the way it gets used under normal circumstances. Therefore, I would argue, if you want to get your message out anyway, you better be thinking along the lines of delivering your message under abnormal circumstances. So, I think we should be focusing more on how to create some abnormal circumstances, and I wish we would use our braintrust here toward that end. Was that helpful?
This post and thread was about activism.
A community member piped up and went on a rant about Obama, which is off the topic.
I’m saying if you want better than Obama, you’d better work on the shortage of progressives in the pipeline.
Howard Dean asked the members of DFA two weeks after the Nov. 2004 elections to do just that, get involved, make sure that progressives got elected to office and if incumbents, held their offices. I’ve been working on this since meeting him, for 6 years now. And I know we still don’t have enough progressive candidates in the pipeline.
Accountability and prosecution of government officials are topics best left to another post and thread.
Dont let the corporate propoganda make your regret your vote. They want us to think that if we dont vote for either of the two corporate parties we are wasting our vote. They pound that message at us constantly during election time. Ignore it.
And anyway, that election was stolen. Nobodys votes mattered.
See #89. I don’t claim to have the ultimate answers, but I do claim some expertise in recognizing what does NOT work or make sense. I’d like to see some collaboration on a new paradigm. But first, I guess I need to persuade folks to stop doing the same old thing and expecting a better result.
Do your homework.
I’ve worked as a managing editor for an online news outlet. I’ve already gone through a considerable amount of reported material on Ron Paul over the last two years, and with the exception of his positions on privacy and military funding, I’m not at all comfortable with him.
As I wouldn’t be about anybody who doesn’t protect womens’ reproductive rights and meets with white nationalists.
EXACTLY. From what I’ve read, it would appear that FDR felt he had the threat of an impending revolution to motivate him.
How nice of you to lump me in with the old boys’ network. You couldn’t be further from the truth.
But it’s an easy way out, just like running from the electoral process while badmouthing it.
I’m not sure what about that would make the mods uncomfortable, but I definitely agee with that. I keep thinking of stuff like the Guerrilla Girls, or a big bulletin board next to the WND “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” one that says “Right here!” with a picture of it. Of course all that costs money, but if we can get enough people to channel their donations to that instead of OFA and the DNC, we might get somewhere.
Winograd has applied for DFA’s endorsement. Don’t know more than that, but thanks for your advice in what steps to take to find out.
Actually no.
Your post was about telling people to stop whining about candidates and get on board the hopefully progressive Democratic train. The issue of what constitutes whining and what it means to stop was my question.
Sadly Howard Dean has been relegated to the sidelines and one might assume that Team Obama intends to keep their promise to run the next election cycle from a central location.
Running from it? I just refuse to accept your propoganda that the democratic party is my only option if I care about progressive ideals.
If we just keep saying these media-marginalized folks are “un-electable” ofcourse we will never elect them.If each year we vote in larger and larger numbers for them, then perhaps they could be.
I dont expect change over night, nor do I expect us to keep doing the same thing we have been doing, sticking with a Kabuki “two” party system, and expect better results.
You are serving the good ‘ol boys, whether you are willing to admit it or not.
Sorry demi – new to the blog world, still learning the ropes.
What I’d like to see is all the progressive blogs and orgs that I keep up with united under an umbrella org. We all seem to agree on what needs to be done (challenging regressive and corporate Democrats in their primaries and electing progressives in general) but we’re divided into too many branches without a common means of achievement.
We can change the Democratic Party to govern according to its own platform, but only if we unite. If we can’t do that, then I guess we deserve to go on complaining into the wind while our values get trampled underfoot.
*sigh*
“You understand that the Congressional (Supposed) Progressive Caucus is supporting her Blue Dog opponent, Jane Harmon, don’t you? At least their co-chair is actually fund raising for Harmon.”
That’s why they are losing any credibility they may still have.
Corporate propaganda never made me regret anything. Eight years of George Bush made me regret it. And if more people had voted for Gore, the Supreme Court never could have pulled off that chicanery. Not that Gore did himself any favors, of course.
indeed, which is why I say we’re not there yet.
how much more “out” can the message get? We’re screaming about it (as we mentioned), Olbermann is talking about it on TV, the left net roots is up in arms..
I don’t see how it can get much more out there.
Much agreed! I’m not calling for us to go nuts like the tea partiers, and fully understand the importance of unglamorous doorknocking. But the choice about whether to knock on doors or send emails, to practice civil disobedience or work within the system, to stand with or against the Democratic Party – all of these decisions can be made by vote in our communities.
Really just as bad as when Wasserman refused to help Democrats challenge Republicans in FL.
Rayne- I agree with you here and am certainly not advocating sitting on the sidelines. I think we share a common goal and the question is one of means. I’m saying that to build that progressive from the outside requires taking a page from the book of movements that have worked in the past – civil rights, labor, etc. – and from the present (the tea partiers). They’re organizing in a fundamentally different fashion than we are, and I think our method makes us less effective than we could be.
No, I don’t mean that OFA is mine. It’s OURS. And we should have enough trust in ourselves to be confident that we – all of us together in our communities – can make better decisions for our organizations than some staff person in a Washington, D.C., national office.
The Nobel Prize Gore would have trounced Bush. Unfortunately, he let Donna Brazile convince him to be the DLC hack Gore.
I think the message needs to be simpler and more focused, so tthat even the common American citizen can get it. Like, e.g., “People vs. Big Corporations? Which side are YOU on?”
Come on. The blogs and Olbermann are such a tiny, miniscule voice compared to CNN, FOX, the networks, AP, Clear Channel, NewsCorp, the Post, etc., etc. They’re very, very easy to ignore. And most people want to ignore them, because they’re strangers saying things that make no sense compared to everything else they’ve been told. It’s a lot harder to ignore your neighbor who you know and trust and is dealing with problems that directly affect you both. That’s where I think the messaging needs to come from.
kyeo – the point I’ve been trying to make in this discussion is: whatever actions do work, we can figure them out in our own communities. We could use support and coordination from progressive organizations, not top-down control and messaging.
Agree. I had a conversation the other day with a neighbor I barely know, and he just casually put it out that he thought everybody should be stocking up on ammunition. I think there is a lot of that sentiment in the country right now, and if it was appealed to and focused properly, it could be a potent force for change. We are ruled by people who view everything throught the prism of raw power, and I believe that such people only respond to fear, and never to reason. And what we have been doing does not make them fearful at all. Rather, they have US feeling fearful.
Phone banking…mail bombs..money bombs…
We’re doing this already dude…sure maybe we could do it a little more but I don’t see this being some kind of Panacea.
People know about single payer, people know about the PO….the problem is Washington won’t do anything about it. And no matter how many people are angry about it it won’t matter, because the money comes from the industry.
It’s an inherent contradiction, and it will allow for no real change, which will result in Revolution.
With the exception of website design it’s just more of the same.
I went to a pathetic and lame OFA meeting last night, led by three or four uninspiring scruffies. The meeting seemed absolutely a Democratic Party, as in DNC, Get-Out-The-Vote local organizing start-up, so was I supposed to think the Democratic Party in Massachusetts has no organization in place already? Is Rahm’s OFA trying to supplant local party organizations? Is this why so many of my friends who are steeped in the local Democratic Party could not bring themselves to vote for Martha Coakley? Is this why today’s DNC had so little local contact they did not know the lady would have trouble getting elected?
From almost the moment the new Administration was in place, has anyone else noticed one’s replies to the constant exhortations for money are returned as Undeliverables?
Rahm Emanuel is an Israeli who happened to be born in the US. Many nationals of other countries do wonderful patriotic service to this country, but since we have so many Americans who blindly follow AIPAC’s edicts, even our own Congress, surely appointing Rahm Emanuel Chief of Staff was at the least peculiar? Has anyone read Rahm’s father’s outpourings back home in Israel? The man can make Bibi’s father sound soft and gentle.
We should remember that Israel’s government is at present significantly further “Right” than our own late Cheney/Bush Gang (Also, more than likely, manipulated out of Jerusalem via Feith, Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, Addington, Ledeen, Kristol, Franklin, etc. etc).
Even the remotest possibility of our Administration being manipulated in the slightest by that savagely Right Wing gang sits moist uncomfortably with me.
Great Post! Rayne
We are going to be with you
You have my support Rayne
I don’t agree. People are angry about it, but not enough and they’re not active enough. Imagine if enough people were willing to stop spending money at every corporation that donated to a candidate who didn’t support the PO. We have to make these connections clear to people and have people act on them in a way that directly affects the folks pulling the strings.
I’m 50 years old and I was involved in local, state, and national Democratic politics for the past 30 years, including serving as a campaign manager for a Congressional candidate (and of course marching and phone banking and walking precincts and writing letters and making flyers, and you name it). But I am done giving my time and energy and money to this system. Period. The oligarchy, having succeeded in fooling us by allowing us to select Obama, is smart enough to allow just enough progressive candidates in the door next go-around to make us think, once again, that we’re actually making progress. If this past year hasn’t finally taught us to give up on that, then we are all fools and we deserve what we get.
Bingo. Stopping doing the same thing is the first step to recovery.
I’ve also spent my whole life in frustration as the system took us deeper and deeper into fascism/corporate oligarchy. Unlike some of our more moderate comrades here (and they are comrades, even if too moderate to be effective), I’ve come to understand how very smart our opponents are, at least in the area of marshalling, consolidating, and using power. Our side are total naifs by comparison, as they feel a moral obligation to persuade and reason rather than compel or intimidate. Morally superior, but effectively inferior. The smart but evil guys on the other side have invested the last 50 years in building a power infrastructure that would insure that the left never had any effective power again. When they consolidated control of all media, the game was effectively over, at least as long as our side keeps playing within the system.
Yes, but paradoxically, the worse things get, the better they are. Everybody just needs to keep their powder dry and stay tuned.
There’s something happening. Here.
Oh yeah.
Here’s the secret if you want your “message”to at least get through their “filters” [no guarantee anyone actually reads it, of course]:
Hit “unsubscribe” at the bottom of their message.
In response to “why,” let ‘em have it.
Now, you have a choice: either enter your correct e-mail address, and you’ll be taken off their list; or
Provide a phony e-mail address, and you’ll continue to receive spam begging from them, which provides you additional opportunities to “vent.”
You will, however, have the satisfaction of not being blocked by their filters.
Absolutely right. Just like a drug addict, a society has to hit bottom before it can generate the motivation to change. I can feel the anger simmering, just as you do. I am inclined to think that there will be no organized revolution, as such, but more likely a viral wave of violent anti-government actions that will spring forth spontaneously, a la Joseph Stack, that will disrupt the established order enough that some significant changes will occur. I just wonder if I will live long enough to see it, as the ability of the population to remain passive has been amazing me for a long time now.
I just want to add, that I don’t think that “viral revolution” will be exclusively left-wing or right-wing in nature. I think it will be more ecumenical, fueled by the bipartisan rage that comes from knowing you are being routinely fucked by your governemnt and just reaching the point where you are too mad to take it anymore, and too mad to be rational or measured about how you express your rage. Because that is part of human nature.
How mekathleen’s guillotine idea @ 16? I LIKE IT.
Good messaging tactic, and makes me smile, but I think more will be required to bring about any real change.
While we’re at it, mayber we could start a Guillotine Party? I would vote for that.
“The founding fathers didn’t sit around whining…” Agreed.
They threw tea into Boston Harbor and said to the powers that be, “We no longer accept your legitimacy or your rule. We’re making our own rules now.” That worked out ok, but that king was across the pond.
I agree with you and razor. Obama thought outside one little box, but he’s well inside the big box. There’s no there there. What it is ain’t exactly clear. Here.
Unlike you guys, however, I believe a real revolution that breaks down civil authority will only accelerate and consolidate our incipient fascism. Because we will lose. Big.
Hope I’m wrong about that, but I’m not anxious for my kids to test the latest technology in crowd supression and control, FISA “protections”, enhanced interrogation, the loss of quaint concepts like habeas, or the unleashing of Blackwater domestically. There’s a man with a gun over there…
We’re cooked, but still struggling in the pot as the temp rises.
Still struggling to find ways to climb out that don’t just increase the temp.
Hopefully…
Yeah, that’s what my Pop used to say (history prof and survivor of the Great Depression.) We don’t realize how sketchy things were getting because most of the real pungent events (town hall burnings etc.) got purged from the history books. We don’t like to think of ourselves as a banana republic, but there really is no reason we can’t become one.
I am suitably impressed with your resume. I congratulate you on your writing. But Ron Paul is a player in national politics and his followers often find common ground with the people you pretend to speak for. He is his own man and his votes match his words. He has an important history lesson for all Americans regarding our financial system. Ron Paul is sane enough to be openly anti-war. You say he hates women and black people and hangs with skin heads and thus you reject him out of hand along with all the active and passionate young people in his camp. I fear that you are a mere partisan.
I totally agree that an organized revolution would be defeated, for the reasons and with the results you stated.
But the viral revolution I referenced above will, I think, happen anyway, spontaneously and more-or-less apolitically, and while it will certainly provoke an immediate totalitarian crackdown on the rest of us, I’m not so sure about what the long-term outcome would be. The prognosis is messy, for sure, but maybe we come out at the end in a place where we can start over based on first principles.
People have lost their jobs, their houses, their health insurance . . . nothing much left to lose except their minds. I agree with you, I think it’s more likely to be free-floating anger that gets people out in the streets vs. some sort of positive unifying cause. The oligarchy better crank up the SOMA factories.
Hey, don’t get me wrong. I’m a chicken and I don’t want to see a real shooting revolution. No doubt, they can get rough.
It looks to me though, that the oligarchy has decided they can inflict misery without consequence.
The 1st shot will almost certainly not come from the left. Bubba ain’t got no job either. And his wife’s left him. And them boys over at Ricky Bobby’s house seem to know who’s causin’ all the trouble.
-that sort of thing.
Of course they are confused and misdirected and will no doubt declare war on the wrong people. And so it goes.
Yeah, the Establishment especially likes to purge things that suggest that revolutionary fervor can ever accomplish anything.
Worth remembering that there was a lot of pro-Hitler sentiment in those days, as the right wing business interests here saw him as the best tool to discourage workers from unionizing in the wake of the Bolshevik Revolution. They don’t view workers too differently today.
I’m not in favor of armed revolution either; Ricky Bobby scares the crap out of me. Even if he declared war on the right people, he’s also probably a really bad shot.
A general strike would be perfect, but there are too few of us left who even know what that is.
Congratulations. You have seen the light. Your years of service give you credibility. I am an old Anderson, Perot, Nader voter. I don’t blame the partisans for ignoring me. The Democratic Party serves the Oligarchs by neutralizing the energies of the left. It is so obvious from outside the party. Thank you for your comments.
I saw the light a long time ago, I just squinched my eyes up real tight so it wasn’t too bright. Not working for me anymore . . .
Late to the party but if you’re thinking of joining something, why not ACORN? I mean, if for no other reason than it’s obvious that ACORN scares the living shit out of the wingnuts and corporatists & to see ACORN make a comeback would make wingnut heads explode.
Seriously with a Firedoglake sponsored ACORN membership drive the wingnut schadenfreude would be delicious.
If you’re starting from the belief that change comes from one man or one representative, then you should really be surfing the Huffington Post celebrity pages rather than blog entries. Representatives will disappoint you, even the good ones. Activists will disappoint you, even the good ones. It’s just the nature of politics and the limitations of our capacity to understand all the things that are happening. If you want to enter the arena of political debate, then you have to accept from the start that profound disappointment is part of the reality of politics. The payoff for political activists is that their efforts do save lives and bring about change, but frustration will always be present. The Netroots and political activist may not have transformed the reality of our political nightmare, but I’d argue that our efforts haven’t been useless. The US hasn’t invaded Iran. Americans are confronting their nation’s torture policies. The list of our social and political victories are long. Perhaps it’s time we reflect on them a little more.
I so agree.
but what is the answer? Not to become them..how to cause the shift? I dont want to do it violently-altho at times I feel violently about it.
I just try to keep pointing stuff out….
I find the notion that all revolutions are violent is indication of just how infected we’ve become by right-wing fantasy. It’s important to remember that the most meaningful revolutions, perhaps even the most lasting, are the ones where no shooting was required. War and violence are failure.
Oh please, profound disappointment and frustration don’t even begin to cover it. We are facing a multitude of crises – we’re way, way past the point where incremental change will do us any good. While we’re busy reflecting, the US continues to torture and it may very well invade Iran. Obama was not the change we were looking for and the sooner we realize that, the better.
America is violent. Hard to imagine a revolution here that wouldn’t be violent, given that everyone (except us peaceniks) is armed to the fucking teeth.
1776.
My point exactly. Did you ever wonder why the word “Progressive” appeared all of a sudden? No one was using it even in during the Bush years. This was well-planned ahead of time and many (myself included) fell for it.
Progressivism existed in a Modernistic society. Modernistic society was pre-World War I. It embraced the things of the future and the promise of a better day. Each time it was fueled by the liberals and even the libertarians, including lately, Nader. It flourished in a time when people were able to use government to make things better. Modern inventions and education held promise for the future.
Unfortunately, we are now living in a Post-Modern society. America has seen almost 100 years of progressivism systematically destroyed by not only its enemies but from within, with decades of corruption and big government, which eventually led us to the military-industrial complex, regime changes around the world, and the takeover of our Democracy by Wall Street.
Obama has no intention of changing any of this.
I believe the name was resurrected in farce. It gives the excuse for large government, which, will not work anymore. Europe is teaching us where we are headed. But not only that, this poor excuse of “progressivism” today is being revised by Mr. Obama to being a neo-con-friendly, war-friendly, gay discrimination-friendly, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT CAUSE OF THE PROGRESSIVES, ANTI CORRUPTION and Wall Street and financial government reform, HAS BEEN MADE INTO A JOKE.
This fake label came at us during the last presidential campaign and it is a word that is being used, abused and discredited by people who have no idea why OR EVEN THAT the big government ideals of progressivism failed (corruption and theivery on Wall Street).
Post-modern society is going toward grassroots movements… Detaching from things like NATO, the EU and the UN and global banks and organizations. Post-modern society realizes that wars of choice have been a failure, the banks and corporations have taken over. Post-modern society does not see hope in the future due to the use of the atom bomb and wars of choice that have killed countless civilians. Post-modernism, in a way, recognizes the failure (from within) of the previous “progressive” movements.
How far we have come. Very few Democrats, including Obama, can really call themselves progressives. Its really an insult, a fakeout, another hoax. Add them to Obama’s list of hoaxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_States
Europe is starting to bust out in strikes left and right. Perhaps they could remind us how to do it but, characteristically, the media is NOT giving much coverage to them.
Nailed it.
Very well said.
Likely true. Most of the world had given up slavery more or less quietly by the mid 1800′s. But not the US. We had to have a full blown civil war in order to deal with it. Criminy.
For a lot of people, Obama was the change they were looking for. Many people are satisfied with simply seeing a person of color as President. There are loads who simply want to see a woman as President; it doesn’t matter what party she comes from. Identity plays a huge role in culture. It motivates a tremendous number of people. Some people want their doctor and mechanics to look like them and talk like them. Does this kind of behavior make sense? I don’t know. I just know it affects reality. There are plenty of other factors that shape how our politics is used and abused. I agree that Obama has not been change, but I never expected him to be.
I don’t understand. Are you arguing in favor of just accepting that we’ll never get change? Because believe me, Obama is the absolute best we can hope for out of the Democratic Party in our lifetimes.
The fall of the Soviet empire. I didn’t say violent revolutions haven’t changed things. There has been change that came with a mountain of bodies and there has been change that didn’t. I’m simply arguing that you have a choice about how you approach revolution and violence revolution isn’t my default. I always have to remember that if I’m out carrying a gun shooting at people (and being shot at) instead of making love to my girlfriend because I actually chose to pick up a gun, then I’m a fool.
I don’t think violent revolution is anyone’s default here. We all wish we had the courage and the unity of the Ukrainians or the Iranians or the Greeks. But in America, the group of people besides us who are most likely to revolt are stupid, selfish and scared. And armed. I don’t know how we make common ground with them but I am sure as hell not going to fight against them on behalf of the oligarchy. It’s quite a dilemma we find ourselves in.
No, I’m arguing that fatalism and nihilism are useless. Okay, things are fucked up, so what else is new? Either embrace that things are fucked up and continue to work for the change you want or take up a hobby and forget about politics. I never believed Obama would change things that much. Change comes from people, not from politicians, and if people simply embrace fatalism, then nothing changes.
Are you equating giving up on the current system with fatalism and nihilism?
“Embracing that things are fucked up” sounds pretty fatalistic to me.
Oh my, I didn’t know anyone else even remembered Anderson.
This is a very good thread.
Revolution is coming.
Starting with hearts and minds …
It will be nonviolent of dire human necessity.
And we, who understand, ARE the conscience that must encourage others to seek better visions and then, together, we, the people, will, of our own choice and desire, build a better world.
The alternative is death.
DW
Getting back the theme of the article the point here is that Progressives are active. Is the system rigged? Yes. Is it really fucked up? Yes. But you must use the tools you have. That’s what many in the Progressive movement are doing. It’s going to take hard work and patience, the latter being in short supply in today’s America.
Any Kool-Aid left?
Pointing stuff out is what I am trying to do as well. The first priority, it seems to me, is to stop using up our limited energy and resources doing the same old thing that does not work. Raise people’s awareness level, until they see clearly that the true teams competing are the People vs. Big Corporations, not right vs. left. Only then can we really start thinking afresh about some other strategies. I’m still working on getting people to give up on the old thing. Then we can put our combined creative energy into coming up with a new thing, which I do NOT believe should be an armed revolution, but only because I believe such would be doomed to failure.
Well, I guess if you set your expectations low enough, you will never be disappointed. Great strategy. For you. Not me.
It seems to me that you want something grand, really big and immediate, and I understand that desire, it’s very American. But Dean’s fifty-state strategy was far less glamorous. It was mostly field work, door-to-door, hitting the phones, that kind of thing. But that’s how change is made. Parades, rallies and such are fun, and necessary in a public-relations sense, but the real work is not the sort of thing that makes for good action films. It takes dogged determination and is often boring, repetitive and wholly lacking in glamor.
I think it takes more than hard work and patience if you continue to do the same thing with no results. And I don’t think progressives have seen strong results this past year. If we applied the same hard work and intensity to democratic, decentralized local organizing, we could be much more effective in shaping the debate.
Exactly, we’re going to have to bone up on our Ghandi, and MLK, and get to really know what we only think we know right now.
India threw off the worlds biggest super-power, peacefully.
This is a delightfully different take on non-violent revolution by the inimitable Lord Bukley;
The Hip Ghan
you’ll be glad you read it.
(Eyes roll). OK, I’m only on comment 75 (I see 163 of ‘em so far) and things are coming off the hinges. Did you just ask Rayne that? Oh, this is gonna get good…
Here’s a youtube version of the Lord Buckley piece;
The Hip Ghan
If you don’t know what being gassed is, prepair to be gassed.
If you knew anything about me or my life story, you would never insult me by using the adjective “American” in the way you apparently meant for it to be taken. I have been an endurer and a perseverer all along, and never expected anything to come fast or easy, nor do I think that undoing a fascist regime would be glamorous, or anything other than scary, painful, soul-breakingly hard work.
But I believe in seeing things as they are, not just as we dream that they could be. We have been moving in the wrong direction my entire adult life, and I will soon be 59. I’ve been a lawyer since the early 80′s. Perhaps you are less aware than I of how much of our freedom has been stripped from us in that time span. I am acutely aware of it.
At some point, a rational person must acknowledge when a strategy is a loser, and seek a new strategy, and all options should be on the table. Otherwise, we are just cattle, which is exactly what “they” want us to be.
Well, one way is by supporting media like FDL. And spreading the word to your friends and rellies.
But yes, we also need to get a foothold in TV and radio.
Exactly. And it’s something that a lot of the people who just get off on will-corroding cynicism like, because it gives them an excuse not to act. In other words, it’s a cover for laziness, physical, moral and intellectual.
Beyond view, another thing.
Shakin’ thanks, Bob.
Even so.
DW
So, you think I “get off” on “will-corroding cynicism?”
No, I get off on results. Where are the positive results of the kind of work you apparently support? I don’t see any. Being duped by Obama is as will-corroding as it gets, from my POV. It doesn’t mean give up, it just means find a better way to fight.
So, what do you get off on? Pretending that you are changing the world?
Ya know, the conversation has finally, on a world of topics, gotten to the point where it should have been forty years ago.
Of course people’s attention is a mite more concentrated, these days, but really none of what has gone on for quite a while is all that surprising, certainly since Bush v. Gore, the trajectory has been pretty clear.
Somehow we all take it personally, which, frankly, is the only way to take it if you care about more than yourself and money.
Everybody here qualifies, big time.
What’s to be done?
Well, one way, or another, my guess is that everyone of us, not matter how frustrated, are already trying to do what must be done, but it helps to know that we’ve got some help.
So, thank you, all, and keep on doing …
DW
Words of wisdom, DW. To me, the trajectory has been clear since Nixon, so perhaps my patience is wearing thin for good reason. Allies should not bite each other, but some prefer ad hominem to an honest appraisal of their own positions. So it ever was. But all here are trying to push in the same overall direction, and credit should be given and good intentions assumed. And arguments should be honestly addressed on the merits.
Sweet dreams, gentle soul.
Blah, blah, blah – work the ground, raise money, elect more lame Democrats, blah, blah, blah….let me know how that FINALLY works out for your great, great, great, great grandchildren given that it takes YEARS to remove these worthless S.O.B.’s only to watch them sell you out (Pelosi, Obama, Boxer, Feinstein) keep electing them and they will keep selling you out.
The only action I am interested in is Constitutional. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO:
- Assembly
- Free Speech
- To Bear Arms
ALL of which are intended to prevent us from being oppressed and victimized by the kind of crap we are experiencing now. A government that offers us taxation without representation and shakes down the poor to feed the bloated rich.
When you are ready to take to the streets, I’m all over it! Until then, stop yammering about how all we need are more Progressive Candidates.
What we need is an overthrow and a return to a REAL DEMOCRACY!
Geez people, how long before you realize we don’t live in a damn Democracy?
But hey, if it makes you feel better, then by all means, keep spinning that hamster wheel….and good luck with that.
I’m currently learning French and Spanish because I hear you can fit in anywhere in the world if you speak either language.
Representative Democracy is neither.
just saying.
With that attitude you’re still going to look and smell like an American. They have different kinds of democracy in French and Spanish-speaking countries, you know. They don’t like guns like we do here in the States. Good luck blending in, don’t let the door hit you.
By the way, the Constitution is a set of prohibitions and limitations on government, not limitations on the rights of the people. Maybe a big problem here is that Americans no longer actually do anything to learn about or protect their democracy, they just whine and threaten to run away from it. You know, a government of, by and for the people? It’s not your government when you run away and blame everybody else.
FAKE label? whatever you want to tell yourself.
Some of us were progressives — people who stood for human progress — long before Obama became a political figure.
Rayne, you can’t get an organization going because the idea of “progressivism” is intellectually bankrupt. There is no coherent philosophy behind it, except bigger government, more controls, and more war. With no principles that make people want to go to the baracades to defend, there is no basis for political action.
Oh, when it comes to Paul I’m not a partisan, it’s personal. I happen to be a woman of mixed race and I take it personally when somebody who claims to love the Constitution and embraces a more libertarian position undermines my rights.
As for partisanship: even Republicans disown Ron Paul as a crazy libertarian, so it’s not about party, it’s about politics.
Point to where any progressive of this generation has said that the solutions to all our problems is bigger government. Because I’d have to clue them.
But you’re in need of a little help yourself with the recent past. Conservatives through their Republican and Libertarian members actually oversaw the biggest expansions of government during the last two presidential terms, most dangerously through expansion of executive office powers.
Contemporary progressives realize there is a place for effective, limited government — one of, by and for the people, which the citizenry elect, which acts as an aggregation of the citizens’ power — to perform duties which individuals cannot do on their own.
Like regulating the financial industry, for example. Glass-Steagall Act’s demise came under a Democratic president and a Republican congress, and we are in global financial chaos because of that irrational reduction in government. The failures of Enron, Worldcom, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, the housing market all happened because of a reduction of government oversight, based on a naive belief that “greed is good” and will motivate action in the best interests of all stakeholders. What utter naivete.
I take you’re an advocate for no regulation at all, badmouthing progressives. If the health insurance industry doesn’t bat an eye at raising rates nearly 40% in a single year, I’d like to see how it would go over if we just did the conservative thing and took off the meager restraints and let them go hog wild.
[edit: "intellectually bankrupt"? Really annoying given the pathetic politics of the right in this country, which has regressed to toddler-like "No". William F. Buckley likened conservatism to a man standing astride the river of history, shouting "No!" Yeah, like that will stop the march of time, or the drive of human need. What really are conservatives seeking to conserve? We've asked that question for the last 15 years and not one of them can answer that question coherently.]
The fault lies not in the stars but with ourselves. I realize FDL is Jane’s sandbox, but perhaps she might be willing to let the lunatics take over the asylum. Let’s try to figure out how we as a commmunity might interact on some issue and reach consensus. Consensus, you know, is not majority rule. You keep discussing until there are no negative votes. People can abstain, but one negative vote continues the debate. I’d like to debate the issue of moderators. I don’t think them necessary. Perhaps others have different issues. The point is to reason together online. When we get there, we can then, perhaps, go someplace else.
Oh, my, there are so many misconceptions in your rant that I hardly know where to start.
If you ever defined “progressive” with any consistency or coherence, we might actually be in agreement on some issues. But your ritualistic smearing of “libertarians” (a term that is quickly being emptied of any concrete meaning, since it has been recently adopted by Sarah Palin and Glen Beck, two individuals who are pro-war and pro-government bailouts)does this discussion a disservice.
Libertarians (in the pre-Sarah sense) have always been pariahs within the Republican Party and have NEVER exercised much influence except rhetorically.
The expansion of executive power has been going on for 75 years, with both Republicans and Democrats being guilty. I see Obama has not given up any of the Bush perogotives, and indeed has expanded on them.
The financial industry is already heavily regulated…at the expense of the average person and for the benefit of the rich bankers. End the Fed.
End Too Big To Fail.
The health care industry is also heavily regulated, and the majority of the money expended is spent by governments. If it ain’t working now, maybe more of the same is the wrong anwswer?
My point was that your whining for a “progressive” movement presupposes a philosophy. What is it? Surely it’s more than gay rights, free healthcare, and abortion choice. Until you define it, and it makes overall sense, there will be no effective organization possible.
I sort of guessed it was personal when you called him a pig. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Born in 1944. Majored in sex drugs and rock & roll. Served under President Johnson. Glad to meet you.
The stupid selfish folks you are talking about are American workers. If you work for wages or a salary you have a lot more in common with them than you think. You don’t have to get dirty to be working class. I remember when there was a debate about whether writing code was a science or an art. When they sent the work to India we had our answer. Its labor.
Just a note to FDL from a new guy. You need a way to keep live threads, like this one, from falling off the page.
Of course the republicans disown Ron Paul. He is not prowar enough for them. Also, he is one of the few people that gives a dam about the US financial system. Republicans can’t support somebody who would try to stop Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan from controlling the US financial system. One other reason they wouldn’t support him is because he doesn’t support the war on drugs that does nothing but fill US prisons. That’s OK, go ahead and use the race card to discount everything anybody says who doesn’t have a D by their name.
Rayne,
This has been one fine thread, and your truly excellent post set it off.
This kind of lively, even heated at times, discussion is long overdue.
My profound thanks to you, Rayne, for having and deftly using the magic of getting people to open up, to see what THEY really think or belief they think or think they believe.
And, if they’ve the moxie, to see and try to understand the experience and considered thoughts of others.
Not just good on ya, GREAT! on ya, Rayne.
DW
Agreed. It really seems that we have reached the point where this community needs to resolve the great debate about whether continued conventional legislative and electoral efforts (in which many here have made heroic contibutions), or various extra-systemic strategies are best suited to achieve the changes we all crave. In our lifetimes.
It’s a debate that is fully justified in light of the facts, and one we should have in a civil and reasoned fashion.
The issue of moderators …
Frankly, I’d like to see them all, out front, out from behind the curtain.
I know that at least one of their number agrees with me.
His concern is whether we, those of us out here, are mature enough, to “police” our own behavior and ourselves but with more success than certain “government attorneys” or the legal profession as a whole, have shown for a considerable time, one would hope.
So, to my mind that is the first question for debate.
It is my hope that the mods will encourage AND participate, fully, in this debate, as much as they are currently able. Perhaps they may have need of a wise and humanly effective spokesperson? If so, then I am quite certain who I think that person should be.
A post, from the mods, detailing such concerns as they may have, as well as any hopes, considering how they have been “growing” on us and encouraging thoughtful and considered discourse to very good ends for a considerable period of time, would be a useful signal that the time for this important discussion might be nigh.
(Submitted in the hopes of it being received in the spirit in which it is intended.)
DW
Agreed.
I doubt ’twill be in MY lifetime, razorbrain, sweet though that would be.
But I should very much like human beings to find their humanity in time for my children and their children to experience the would we all deserve.
Take this as you will, but if what we seek is successful, then our words, these tons of them, will matter only as musty old example, for if we succeed, there will be little need for words and anguish such as ours.
DW
Edit: “… the world we all deserve.”
Seeeeesh!
We r u’s today …
I have no children, so maybe I’m being selfish in wanting to see it in MY lifetime lol. But, Lordie, I was raised to have those expectations, and I have been waiting for sooooo long.
you know what else the Founding Father didn’t do? they didn’t adopt a useless strategy of ‘reform from within’ against the British Empire.
the owners and operators of the Democratic Party would burn it down before allowing ‘progressive’ insurgents to wield real power within it.
but they won’t have to, because the castle is well defended, and those it allows in will simply be corrupted enough to become indistinguishable from the others.