Twenty years ago, independent candidate Ross Perot captured nearly one in five votes cast for President, yet still finished a distant third and failed to win a single electoral vote. Since then, as can be plainly seen from the table and graph below (an abbreviated history of the most significant third party candidacies for President), it’s been all downhill for the anti-duopolists, at least in terms of vote getting, as the most successful third party candidates in each subsequent election managed to capture a progressively smaller percentage of the popular vote.
It does seem rather bizarre that, even as the establishment parties become more brazenly disdainful and in fact openly hostile to the interests of common citizens, those attempting to mount challenges to the duopoly find themselves increasingly marginalized and ignored. What is interesting to contemplate is what, if anything, those on the left who rightly reject the artificial and meaningless construct of corporate D vs. corporate R can do to alter that dynamic.
Year Party Candidate Vote% EVs Next Election
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1832 Anti-Masonic William Wirt 7.8 7 Endorsed Whig
1848 Free Soil Martin Van Buren 10.1 0 Won 5% of vote
1856 Whig-American Millard Fillmore 21.5 8 Dissolved
1860 Southern Democrat John C. Breckinridge 18.1 72 Dissolved
1860 Constitutional Union John Bell 12.6 39 Dissolved
1892 Populist James B. Weaver 8.5 22 Absorbed by Dem
1912 Progressive Theodore Roosevelt 27.5 88 Returned to Rep
1912 Socialist Eugene V. Debbs 6.0 0 Won 3% of vote
1924 Progressive Robert M. LaFollette 16.6 13 Returned to Rep
1948 States' Rights Strom Thurmond 2.4 39 Dissolved
1948 Progressive Henry Wallace 2.4 0 Won 1.4% of vote
1968 American Independent George Wallace 13.5 46 Won 1.4% of vote
1980 Independent John Anderson 6.6 0 Dissolved
1992 Independent H. Ross Perot 18.9 0 Won 8.4% of vote
1996 Reform H. Ross Perot 8.4 0 Did not run
2000 Green Ralph Nader 2.7 0 Ran again
2004 Green Ralph Nader 1.0 0 Ran as write-in
2008 Write-In Ralph Nader 0.6 0 Did not run
Percentage of Popular Vote (each X = 1/2 of one percent)
1832 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1848 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1856 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1860 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1892 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1912 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1912 XXXXXXXXXXXX
1924 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1948 XXXXX
1948 XXXXX
1968 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1980 XXXXXXXXXXXXX
1992 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1996 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
2000 XXXXX
2004 XX
2008 X
Pct .........5........10........15........20........25........30
Source: ThisNation.com
It needs to be said firstly that neither the Democratic nor the Republican parties were “present at the creation”, so you could technically say that they are examples of third or alternative parties that made good. The big difference between those cases and the ones listed above are that both the D and R parties essentially arose from the ashes of formerly dominant parties (the Democratic-Republican party and the Whig party specifically) which had already all but collapsed.
The second incalculable advantage they had, which is especially relevant to the present day situation, is that both had big money interests solidly behind them. So of course it’s quite possible to go from nothing to major party status – at least in certain unique situations – provided you’re willing to carry water for the one percenters. On the other hand, if your whole raison d’etre is to stand in opposition to the predations and power monopoly of the one percenters, that puts you in an altogether different category, one which presents infinitely greater obstacles and challenges.
We are now less than two months removed from the 2012 election, and it is interesting to speculate where the top minor party vote getter – who will undoubtedly be Green Party candidate Jill Stein – will fit into the above spectrum. There are, of course, always a hard-core group of terminally disaffected voters who will reliably cast their ballot for some “other than” candidate, whether that candidate’s party label is Green, Reform, Libertarian, Prohibition, Peace And Freedom, or whatever. In most cases, the R’s and D’s could really not care less. Out of more than 125 million votes cast for President in the 2008 election, the Democrats could well afford to ignore the 3/4 million stubborn souls who chose to write in Ralph Nader.
On the other hand, I well remember that in the 2000 election, when the pre-election polls showed a much tighter race, and in which Nader’s candidacy looked far more formidable, the Democrats expended a significant amount of time and energy denouncing Nader’s “spoiler” candidacy, and raising the specter of a critical mass of “thrown away” Nader votes leading directly to a back-door victory for the odious George W. Bush (which, according to Democratic Party orthodoxy, is exactly what happened). A small army of celebrities and other D Party flaks was deployed across the country to warn of the dire consequences of throwing one’s vote away on Spoiler Ralph. I recall that some even went so far as organizing so-called voter exchanges, in which Nader-leaning voters in swing states could trade their votes with Democratic loyalists in safe blue states, so that one could still register a protest vote for Nader without in the least presuming to try to affect the actual outcome of the election.
The take-away from all this is that, at least in those elections in which the electorate is very closely divided between R and D (it wasn’t in 2008, where Obama won handily by more than eight million votes), a minor party candidate can have a disproportionately large influence on the whole process merely by threatening to siphon enough votes away from one of the major candidates to swing the election to his/her opponent. Of course, it goes without saying that all minor parties ultimately desire to be something more than mere “spoilers”. They obviously want to get their candidates elected, and their proposed policies and programs enacted.
Well, suppose you were a political consultant, and six months from now a group interested in organizing a third party effort came to you and said, “In the next Presidential election we want our candidate to be an actual player, and not just a protest symbol.” What advice would you give? What represents a credible path (assuming there even is one) from being a mere flyspeck on the most outlying fringes to being a force to be reckoned with, that can aspire to at least have some measurable effect on the outcome? Here, for what it’s worth, is how I would respond:
1. Make it a crusade, and not just a campaign. A campaign for Presidential is something that goes on for perhaps twelve months or so every four years. For minor party candidates, the time period is considerably shorter. A crusade, on the other hand, is something that goes on 24/7, 365 days a year, and regardless of whether the calendar year is divisible by four, two, or twenty-seven. As Samuel Adams observed, “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.” What needs to be emphasized is that we’re not just talking about replacing bad and corrupt elected officials with dedicated and honorable ones, but remaking our entire society in fundamental and far-reaching ways.
2. Present a united front. It’s axiomatic that in unity there is strength, but today it seems the Left is as fragmented as ever, and just as much absorbed in pointless and self-defeating internecine conflict. Why, I wonder, is there a Green Party candidate, a Justice Party candidate, and a Socialist Party candidate, when all basically advocate the same agenda? How much more potent and effective a third-party movement would be if all oars were rowing together in the same direction, instead of at cross purposes. The anti-duopoly Left needs to unite under the banner of the Progressive Party (a nameplate that has a long and honorable history), or perhaps the New Progressive Party, or maybe the National Unity Party, or something along those lines. As another one of the early American revolutionists memorably said, if we don’t hang together, surely we will all hang separately.
3. Produce a cogent, well reasoned and comprehensive document describing who we are, what we stand for, and what we want. Every great movement lays down the gauntlet in the form of a written manifesto or polemic describing why it exists and what it seeks to accomplish (think Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence) – where is ours? This document, in my opinion, should seek to lay out the following: A) Make the case as to why the current structure of our society is untenable, and harms and undermines the interests of the great majority of citizens; B) Describe at least in broad strokes what constitutes a better, more humane and just alternative; C) List the ten or twelve most urgent policy changes that need to occur in order to staunch the bleeding and begin to set America on course for a brighter and more sustainable future; and D) A specific and detailed code of ethics and conduct for public officials (elected or otherwise), as well as candidates for public office.
4. Require all candidates running under the Party banner to explicitly embrace this manifesto, to make the items on the “Top Ten” list their highest and most urgent priorities, and to take the “Vow of Chastity” and voluntarily abide by the candidate Code of Conduct, so that voters can see in a very straightforward and unambiguous way that the candidate is beholden to no one but them.
If, by some miracle, all of the above steps were taken between now and the 2016 election, would it mean that a New Progressive candidate might have a real chance to win the election, or even come close? Realistically no, because our nation’s entire history strongly suggests that great sea changes such as we advocate happen gradually, over a very long period of time. But yet, one thing I think we can all be absolutely sure of is that such a sea change is coming, that it is inevitable and completely unavoidable. The level of toxicity, of complete detachment from unpleasant realities inherent in current policies and current political, economic and social structures is simply unsustainable. It’s really no longer a question of if, but only of when.
Though obtaining real power should probably best be considered a long-term goal, raising the profile and influence of the anti-duopoly left in the near term is still a realistic and achievable objective. The ability to insinuate ourselves strongly into the national consciousness and the national dialogue is both doable and within reach. However, merely retracing our steps along well worn paths won’t get us there. Simply doing once again what we’ve done in the past will inevitably produce the same outcome, in which the opposition to More Of The Same is reduced to the level of ineffectual gnats buzzing around the head of the great Donkephant, who merely swishes his tail absentmindedly as he goes right on contentedly chewing his cud. Certainly, the Barack Obamas, Bill Clintons and Rahm Emanuels of this world are counting on that very scenario continuing to play out. The most hopeful thing I see is that we have in our own hands the power to prove them wrong.



39 Comments

You offer good advice. The problem with it, as I see it, is that it doesn’t take into account who is going to do all this. The existence of several competing 3rd parties is historical. Who exactly would be the entity that would say, such division is not good, so all you 3rd-partyers should unite under the banner of …
The left? The left is not an organization, it is a loose collection of divergent individuals and groups, it has no collective decision-making, and decision-enforcing, body. In my latest piece — http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2012/09/09/dump-capitalism-7-the-coming-storm/ — I try to wrestle, among other things, with how organizational mass could actually be developed.
But as it now stands, you seem to be a party of one, which is not a criticism but I think a statement of fact. I am trying to work with what is there, to create the collective body that then could make the kind of moves which you outline. After all, there have been calls for left unity since there was ever a left. Why hasn’t it happened? Then you might be able to start to grapple with how that could be overcome.
Good, sensible, long-term plan of action. Constant, post-election, publicity is important. For now, I am going to buy Green Party Jill Stein’s banners and plaster them all over my street-facing windows. Constant 6-lane traffic passes by. Anything to increase awareness. It is hard to beat the millionaire-controlled mass media.
I’m highly sympatico, but I think history may outpace you here. When LBJ signed the Civil & Voting Rights Acts he famously remarked “we just lost the South for a generation”. He was off by a factor of two, but he knew what the political consequences were: the Republican Party would thenceforth capture a fairly large majority of the White vote, and become the party usually in power.
I think the inflection point was 2000 or 2004, and now in 2012 the demographic pendulum is swinging very quickly in the other direction to the point where the Republican Party, unless they make changes comparable to the ones they made between 1860 and 1920, is only going to be nationally relevant for another ten years, if even that long.
So unless you think the Democratic Party, once it starts to dominate the political scene is going to move left just because they can and out of the kindness of their hearts, it’s going to either 1) occupy the position of the current GOP as people like the Koch brothers suddenly shower Democrats with money, or 2) fracture.
The idea of promoting principles rather than candidates is a good one. But unfortunately, we don’t have the mechanisms that make the existence of three parties easy: instant runoffs, a parliamentary system, etc. anyone trying to pass laws is quickly going to run into the situation where they’re fighting over the same constituencies and similar platforms.
My point? I’m not sure: it’s a tough problem to solve. But any discussion of party building needs to take these things into account.
Recommended!
My experience is the most challenging part will be to present a united front instead of arguing amongst ourselves.
Not saying we are either the best or the only way, but here is where the New Progressive Alliance is. We developed with others the Unified Progressive Platform (http://newprogs.org/unified-progressive-platform-ratified) which is an amalgam of the platforms of two legacy and four current Progressive organizations.
The NPA was founded largely out of frustration with the tendency among dissenters toward splitting hairs when broad agreement on clearly Progressive ideals is what’s needed to unify the populace. Jeff Roby (see above) also pointed out the need to form an organization. Members of the NPA do not want to ever again vote for the lesser of two evils. Those that don’t endorse the UPP won’t get our endorsement and those that back away from what I think is a pretty reasonable platform will be loudly disavowed. So far we have 45 candidates from 21 states that have endorsed the Unified Progressive Alliance. (http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/07/03/29-candidates-17-states-and-counting)
Of course, this is just one small part of a movement that has to be many people and many organizations. That is where we are. How about the rest of you?
It should be done one state at a time. The best states at this time are Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania. Do it where it hurts.
Trying to reverse the de-unionization of the country with all of my might.
I found the omission of unions, or collective bargaining, or any mechanism to oppose organized wealth a little bit glaring?
How do you intend to accomplish 1-4.
Specifically who are the leaders and what is their funding.
If my goal were to build a strong third party, I would pick a battlefield where I wasn’t immediately declaring war on other members of the left.
A sine qua non of organizing is to start with people that aren’t yet organized; you don’t go and make a “new steelworkers union”.
I raise my usual do-it-by-states objection.
It is cheaper for PTB to buy off states than feds. And it is damned cheap to buy off feds.
So how does state program work.
By way of background, I’m in NYS. Ustabe reliably D. Still is, only Ds, like O, are to the right of Atilla.
Ross Perot bailed out without a credible explanation. Personally, I think he just suddenly froze up at the possibility, even though just imagined, that he could win.
I was not a supporter but what I hate about that is the damage to the viability for generations to come, of third party challenge. That little nutless twerp should have been tarred and feathered and run out of the country on a rail.
Ross Perot was a nutcase.
Perennial prob with 3rd parties.
Eh, it’s the same as it ever was. FDR ran basically uncontested for four terms, controlled all three branches of gubmint and still caved.
http://billmoyers.com/segment/jill-stein-and-cheri-honkala-on-third-party-politics/
At least FDR caved only enuf to preserve demockracy for the 1%ers benfit. Channeling Howard Zinn.
Can’t even get that kind of lip service today.
I hope the above comments don’t presuppose the dems are in way ”the left”.The logic,probably knavish , being posited is that the two-party fascists have static power that is invincible ,if only because of their electoral structure .This is bullshit .All a movement/party needs is as much non-cartel power as AIPAC or the NRA to change the entire system .Jill Stein might have the dems fate in her hands in Wis . ,and she will go nuclear just as fast as those two acronyms .If she demands being in the debates with the Libertarians ,who could fuck the pubs in Florida ,do the demopub tribalists blame the little guys for not”"knowing their place ” . Fuck these corporatists ,their arrogance will bring it own themselves .Yeah ,just like with Nader ,the tribal dems .who are no better than birthers .will scapegoat Jill with their lying filth ,because in both case they believe what they need to believe regardless of the truth .
Well, yeah; he put the banks back in charge of the financial system while they were powerless and unions were… all kinds of not at all powerless. In return, people got a measly stipend that kicked in just as the average person was approaching their life-expectancy, and gave workers the right to collective bargaining, which they’d already won. And THAT only lasted a few years after WWII before Taft-Hartley revoked that.
No right to employment or medical care or a decent standard of living. Even the utilities remained in private hands. And he gets cited the most often as the President people wish Obama was like. Umm, he is.
At least FDR had a credible opponent on his left. The only reason I’m interested in electoral politics more than the usual “minimize the damage” pattern is because I think the GOP is on the verge of obsolescence. Just an epiphany I’ve been thinking about over the past month. Seeing as this only happens about once a century, people who’ve been looking for a real alternative should be ready.
Is it possible to build up a movement starting at the local county organization from within the democratic party? Would something like OWS be useful? Local groups of people nominating people under a progressive banner from within the party could build a base. I would think this woud also involve local politics. Ultimately, if progressives control congress or large parts of it, we can protect what we have and then move up the power structure.
I only suggest this bc a new party outside the power structure and in an electoral system may never get there. The day after the election most wander away and then, as now, get all fired up four years from now. Small clubs within the county may stay together.
The modern Democratic Party began as the Democrat-Republican Party during the Jefferson/Madison era. They were opposed by the wealthy elite/British favoring Federalist Party who, much as the modern Republican Party, tied themselves to issues that eventually sank them. The Democrat-Republicans, of course helped them by providing the “big tent” for disaffected Federalists. But the big tent did not dominate for long. During the Jackson era those same smoldering business elite interests found a home with the Whigs and the now separate Republicans. The point is, throughout history the monied class finds a way to make their tiny numbers a contesting force.
I am quite old so I will probably not live to see it, but I think there will be apocalyptic change driven by climate and end stage capitalism. It will probably feature mass suffering. During such times it is conceivable that many parties would arise with authoritarian messages as well as appeals to reason. Such divisions could lead to schisms in the Democratic Party if the Republican Party has become irrelevant. But in the long run the wealthy elite will find a vehicle to try to establish control. It has always been so. The trick is to somehow make this recurring historical thread a conscious threat well known and believed by the masses. The French Revolution succeeded for a time but the wealthy elite made sure the message was lost by control of media. Maybe the internet is the new variable. I hope so.
The problem is much deeper. In 2000 the Dems not only denounced Nader’s candidacy, as you say, they played hardball, challenging Nader’s ballot access in many states, requiring Nader to finance legal defenses. The D’s and R’s control the debates and they didn’t let Nader in. Wouldn’t even let him sit in the audience. Then there’s the ridiculous ballot access petition requirements, certain size and color of paper, etc., and the huge MSM advantage the two majors have with advertising dollars. Billions of dollars. You pay us, we sell you, they say.
It’s all in Nader’s book “Crashing The Party.”
So the problem is deep, and getting deeper, as your graph shows. So forget it. This is not a democracy. Be staisfied with the choise between tweedledum and tweedledee (Nader).
OWS is still conceptuall y great ,but general assemblies are the fruit of success not a means to achieve success .It can never be an either or ,street heat must have a political enabler to extort power .Obviously no third party is running at the national to win,it has always been the goal to attract people by having a symbiotic interaction between gaining recognition at the national level and building at the grassroots level.It’s not like the Greens or OWS need to convert anyone ,but instead apprise the public that there is a two-party alternative that wants single-payer .universal food security ,free education, an end to the drug war and all these other phony elective wars that jusfify destroying our civil liberties .Why would anyone give a fuck about global warming if facing homelessness due to mortgage fraud ,or worry about terrorism if a tumor can’t be treated because taking time off work is impossible ? Why would anyone care about fracking if a pay check is necessary to live ? Nobody will continue voting for bipartisan thuggery that provides such dire choices.Moreover,why would the ruling monopolists wish to empower their prey with better choices ?
ding-ding-ding — That’s it.
And whining about it doesn’t solve anything. It only makes them (ruling monopolists ) feel good.
Hey donbacon ,just for the sake of clarity, let me emphasize that Nader said that was an untenable choice .I believe he was the the first to say it was tantamount to a choice between staying with a battering spouse or returning home to a stepfather who is a serial molester .Millions of runaways would rather turn tricks than make such a hideous choice .Dems and pubs work for people who perpetrate rape.murder torture and even genocide .A serial molester or a serial droner ? Sorry ,I would rather keep my self-respect than make such a cowardly choice .
Point well taken. It will be impossible to reach our second goal of full employment at a living wage without increased involvement and strength of unions. This UPP is not trying to be everything, just a basic requirement before the NPA gives support. The unions in existence have to be smarter about things such as always giving full support to democrats.
For info on the NPA website on unions see Unions – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/02/05/unions-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Great comments – I appreciate all the good feedback. Some good questions have been raised. Is it remotely possible for the Left to coalesce behind one organization or party and present a united front? Well yeah… it did after all happen in that other USA (Union of South Africa). Not everyone in the anti-apartheid movement was on board with the African National Congress, but enough were that in the world’s eyes the ANC became the de facto spokesman for that movement. The strength, unwavering focus, and moral authority of the ANC was undoubtedly the most important factor in bringing the apartheid system to an end.
Why can’t an organization like the New Progressive Alliance sound out the relevant minor party players, and see if there might possibly be grounds for uniting behind a common banner in future national elections? Ballot access issues would certainly be easier to deal with if you had everyone working to qualify one party for the ballot, as opposed to multiple efforts in support of Green, Socialist, Justice, etc. It certainly seems to me to be something that should at least be tried. What divides us seems trivial indeed in comparison to the ideals and aspirations that unite us.
People speak of the difficulties and daunting obstacles that confront us – well, of course, the struggle against oppression and authoritarianism is never easy. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that others have had it way tougher than us. It’s well to recall that the forerunner of the ANC – the South African Native National Congress – was formed in 1912. A multi-racial democratic system of government finally came into being in South Africa in 1994. Between those two dates, a lot of blood, sweat and tears were shed. Why should we expect it to be any different here?
One thing I’m absolutely certain of is that going forward, the quality of life for the great majority of Americans will not get better – in fact, it will continue to deteriorate steadily, and probably at an increasingly rapid rate. The confluence of environmental factors, secular economic trends, and the absolute indifference of the ruling class to the suffering and deprivations being visited on ordinary citizens virtually guarantees a bumpy and unpleasant road ahead. That being so, consumer loyalty to the D and R brands might well suffer accordingly, creating opportunities for an organized and focused opposition that offers a compelling alternate vision.
According to Wikipedia, the SANNC had its origins in a remark made by one of the earliest leaders in the fight for racial equality, a man named Pixley ka Isaka Seme, who said in 1911: “Forget all the past differences among Africans and unite in one national organization.” The underlying message, that oppression can only be effectively fought by a unified and disciplined opposition, represented good advice then, and a century later is no less timely and pertinent to the struggle we face today.
Hey Red Harvest ,you are so nice and respectful it pains me to call you out as a fraud and an O shill.Every prog in the world knows the ANC is a profile in treachery .The ANC with Mandela’s blessing sold SA out to the corporate globalists.FDL peeps are incredibly gullible ,but we all know the ANC just mass murdered scores of miners.You refer us to a site with alan greyson’s pus staring at me ,and pretend this is not a crypto-dem scam to raise money ? Why don’t you link us with any shred of evidence that the loyalist firebrand has ever stood up to the dems and veered from the party line ?
FDL is totally infested with dem ops tonight ? Beware of Gitlin too .Obama must be more afraid than I realized .I’m breaking out from the scratching ,gotta get away from these lice .
The divisions within the Democratic Party in FDR’s day were much deeper than the differences between today’s corporate Democrats and the corporate Republicans; and the Supreme Court fought him at every turn, until he figured out a way to shut them up.
Not sure what you mean about FDR.
Social Security and unions were not for the benefit of the 1%. Neither was the Federal Emergency Relief Administration. Neither was the FDIC, or the SEC or Chapter X of the Bankruptcy Act of 1933 (now abolished), or Glass Steagall. Neither was the CCC or the public works administration.
Neither was the Works Progress Administration, or the Federal Arts Project, or the Federal Music Project, or the Federal Theatre Project, or the Federal Writers Project.
I could go on, but maybe we’re not talking about the same FDR?
For November, it’s relatively simple: if you love the right, vote Democratic or Republican.
If you are unhappy with the right and live in a red state or a blue state, voting third party is a no brainer. It does not much matter which third party since none of them will win this time anyway. Personally, I am going with Green because at least Jill Stein got matching funds.
If you live in a purple state, your decision is more difficult. However, I don’t think Obama is necessarily the lesser of two evils.
In some ways, I think a rightist Democratic President is more of a danger to the left and to the country as a whole than any Republican could ever be.
Only a Democrat who employs rightist measures can get almost the whole country behind rightest measures. Only a rightist can change cuts to Social Security from the third rail of politics, as it remained under Bush, to inevitable, if not downright virtuous, within a year. But, yes, your choice is more difficult and more nuanced than the choice of those outside purple states.
Finally, between now and the next election, the left should try to unite more, though the choices seem to range from Green to just fold your hands and wait for the system to self-destruct. (Good luck with the latter.) And the left seems singularly unwilling to compromise with other members of the left for the greater good.
So, I don’t know how much unity will succeed.
The problem with calls for a third party is that they only show up at the presidential election time. Trying to jump through all of the procedural hoops to get on all of the ballots require large resources of people and money. Citizen’s united is showing how hard it is to keep even a two party system running. For a third party to succeed, they need to focus at the lower governmental level. Getting people of a third party persuasion to run for state legislative offices would be a great start. Once established in a state and displaying competence, federal office becomes a possibility. As your third party gains acceptance as a real party, the barriers to public acceptance begin to dissipate. It would be disastrous to win the Presidency with no backing in the House or Senate. Start local and do the work. The fact that Nader did not have legislative support in the country’s grass roots is why he was a spoiler.
The current historic orthodoxy explains FDR’s New Deal as an effort to forestall socialist revolution.
I don’t think that totally explains it because there was a strong vein of progressivism amongst the Brain Trust that put together the New Deal programs, but I’m sure that the specter of commie revolt was used by FDR to hammer home the necessity of pacifying the masses to reluctant elites on the right.
Read the history and decide for yourself.
Complete, total, unequivocal BS. Nader was not a spoiler, as has been proved by any number of studies since that election.
Same for your claim that third party initiatives appear only at election time. The Greens have been here for 30 years.
And ditto (yet again) your claim that winning the WH without House and Senate support would be “disastrous.” It is difficult to imagine a clearer statement of wide public distrust of and disgust with the major parties than them uniting to elect a president from neither of them.
http://www.NewProgs.org
Not the case. That’s just what you see (or don’t…). As a matter of fact, the Greens have 3 races we’re contesting here in FL and there are contested races all over the U.S. (and this has been going on for quite some time).
Frankly, the “problem” with a “third” party is a lack of courage to break from the “regime” parties. It surprises me how people have such conceptions that they don’t “see” it. It’s not that its not out there, it’s really a matter of diversifying your sources of information as they have been out there (or just paying more attention). Did you know the Green Party has ballot access in 43 states? That they have local elected officials all over the U.S. and have been contesting elections for quite some time. We can spill out all kind of narrative “thresholds” of why we won’t stand with a third party but excuses for not standing up are easy… getting involved and building a movement is hard but must be done. Folks are waiting, and waiting for others to do the work. Wrong. We do the work or we don’t and point the fingers at ourselves.
The “spoiler” narrative is a myth and reasonable folks should know better as it’s a self-destructive one. Presumably, you’re spoiling the regimes monopoly when you dare to own your own vote and cast it where it’s “earned” rather than just letting those parties own them and profess their “entitlement” to your vote and suggest you’re “taking away” votes from them. The subtext is that we have to “stick” with the republocrat “selection” and can’t afford to make a democratic choice because the winner-take-all system is rigged against making a democratic expression outside of it (fear!). So the conclusion is to delude oneself that democratic expression is the problem and that one must vote for the two headed regime and even defend it with excuses that poo poo on third parties and even adopt the “spoiler” narrative itself (that serves to perpetuate what I refer to). Sad state of affairs I must say.
Fortunately, the Green Party IS focusing on local races and that’s where it’s made the most headway. However, national elections matter too but not for just the obvious reasons (like impacting the national dialog with issues the regime has proven too impotent to address or even mention). These national races are a vehicle to ballot access and _thats_ how the Greens have so much ballot access AND can run local candidates in so many states. I would suggest we find reasons TO get involved and not find comfortable reasons to not get involved as “progressives staying on the sidelines or remaining in this abusive marriage with the dems” is the ROOT of the problem and we need to wake up and turn that around with some bravado!
While the description this poster lays out has a reasoned tone, I suspect that the impact on many readers is to increase their already substantial feelings of frustration and helplessness.
I would just point out the relatively rapid rise of the Independent Party, and in particular Jesse Ventura’s victory in Minnesota that I believe highlights the importance of the mood of the people.
IOW, Jesse Ventura did not become governor of Minnesota exclusively because of a process akin to what Red Harvest lays out, but in addition, and importantly because of the willingness of Minnesota voters to turn their backs on the two parties and vote their conscience.
It all reminds me of the old saying;
“There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.”
What I was pointing out in my post about the Tipping Point is exactly that;
In our current situation we have a clear opportunity to reject both evils and vote for a third party candidate, the only thing standing in our way is our reluctance to believe that that action is a ‘real’ opportunity to affect change for the positive.
I believe it is, and I believe that this poster is inviting us to believe otherwise.
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
People who constantly drag out the spoiler myth are actually standing in our way whether it’s intentional or not.
See my reply to anthony Noel @34, and my diary The Tipping Point is Now.
While I strongly believe that the Green Party must be built from the ground up, the fact is that it is weak in most areas. A national campaign creates a moralizing presence, and some degree of media attention, that anyone can plug into, whether or not running a local race is feasible. That builds foundation for local races.
but that wasn’t the point of his campaign, the point of his campaign was to move the party further to the right and further toward the “libertarion” platform
and that strategy worked even better then he could hope
ron paul won that election by that parameter
my point here is as follows
the democratic party today is far more right wing then the republican party 20 years ago, obama makes reagan look like a flaming liberal.
we absolutely need a third party candidate to get this country back on track, further to the left of where it is (to the left of where it is would be toward the center by the way)
Seems the repubs are in greater position to be split than the dems. With a good trouncing at the polls in November, the teaparty may split-off from “Northeast” moderate republicans. Already the repub party is doomed in California. After watching their convention: the repubs have got NOTHING — Romney’s whole platform is built on lies.
A year ago, it seemed possible that Romney would shift to the middle (as late as yesterday with his foray into keeping parts of ACA), but each time he tries, the teaparty pulls him back to the right wing. He loses.
The dems are much more unified after their convention. The tent is bigger for the dems including women, gays, minorities, uninsured, etc.
There is more opportunity to start a third party on the right wing. In the repub party. That’s where this discussion seems to be heading.