If the Democratic National Convention showed us anything it’s that when Democrats truly, desperately need to connect with Americans they reach for strong progressive ideas.
When they know, in this post-Citizens-United landscape, that they will be hopelessly outgunned in the 30 second TV soundbite battlefield; when they understand that the media will dilute their strongest points in endless he-said, she-said “balanced” journalism; when they are faced with the only opportunity they will have to speak directly to the electorate in those 3 days from the convention floor – they opt for our ideas, progressive ideas.
This is good news.
Now before I get hammered for any perceived fluffing of the Democratic Party, let me say that I know that’s not how they govern. I also know that they can wrap those progressive ideas in conservative reassurances in areas where the right has been too successful warping the public debate – deficits and military adventuring come to mind.
I’m only taking about the core message here and who has the most powerful one.
That would be us.
Only we haven’t done very well at all articulating it. There are reasons for that, of course. We’re up against a messaging juggernaut on the right. We’re proud cats of the left and don’t herd easily. And, we don’t know our own strength.
It’s that last thing I want to talk about. And I want to talk about it in the context of Bill Clinton’s speech Wednesday evening. Love him or hate him, that was an incredible political speech.
A number of things made it so effective. Hell, you could spend several weeks in a university rhetoric course on that speech. But notice this: It made its case from a position of strength.
Clinton wasn’t cowed. On several occasions he quotes the republicans’ best lines directly and then calmly and wittily rips their premises to shreds. You can only do that if you are supremely confident in the rightness of your own ideas.
Clinton was colloquial. He made his case in everyday talk. If you are totally sure of yourself, and have a deep understanding of your subject, then you can make your case simply and it’ll stick.
Clinton was pointedly detailed. He wasn’t afraid to get into specifics because those specifics had a clear point, they were tied to strong, central premises. Conventional wisdom has it that getting into details is death for political rhetoric. But Clinton shows us that conventional wisdom is wrong when you can connect those details to a central message that is both clear and compelling.
What’s the takeaway for us from Clinton’s talk? It’s this: even if we aren’t the oratorical master that the Big Dog is, we can have confidence in our message and that confidence will serve us well as we talk to our friends and family and in public fora.
As progressives we are grounded. We are steeped in ideas that Americans cherish. We have a leg up on our well-funded opposition – even if that opposition might have convinced us otherwise.
What’s the lesson of the whole DNC for us? It’s this. The majority of Democratic elected officials might be corporatist tools once in office. They might dismiss us as hippies and “retards.” But when the going gets tough, it’s our message that they count on to resonate with the American people.
We cannot trust them to live out that message, to act on it. They will only borrow it when it suits them. We have to act on that message ourselves. Nobody’s going to do it for us. That probably means getting active at the local level – but that’s a topic for another blog post.
For now, know this. We have the winning message – and it’s time we started acting like it.




153 Comments

Getting active at the local level is key. Your actions and donations have much more power at that level. But you have to be willing to commit of your time every week of every year, not just in the weeks before an election during election years. It’s a lot easier to be a keyboard warrior — far less actual commitment.
“Strong progressive ideas” at this point are nothing but kabuki…more of the same bait and switch that Obama and the democratic “leadership” used in 2008.
The reality is that even if Obama can squeeze out a win in November, there is not going to be a power shift. Just keep in mind how little he was willing to confront the GOP when had those big congressional margins, and then keep in mind that it’s highly likely that the republicans will keep the House and they may pick up the Senate.
In a way, it’s almost nonsense to talk about the numbers, for the simple reason that Barack Obama is clearly comfortable with the gridlock that he engineered when he did such effective rehab on the republicans in the first two years of his tenure.
Another four years of it will turn the word “progressive” (which he certainly is not…) into a full-on epithet for the voters.
Fair enough. What are we going to do about it?
You are talking my language, PW. The keyboard bitching don’t land it.
Gah.
If local mattered, the usual suspects would buy it out before you could blink.
Much cheaper than buying out national, which is already too cheap.
Didn’t know one had to have a solution for an insoluble problem before being allowed to opine about it.
The only thing Progressive Obama et al. has done these past 4 yrs. is to Progressively ever more rightward. Clinton ended Aid to Dependent Children and through millions of kids into poverty along with their families and Obama will if given the chance do the same for the elderly & disabled by cutting Medicare and SSI. These people show no shame at what their doing and are telling the world right up front it’s what they intend to do if re-elected. I’ll vote for Jill Stein instead and sleep at night.
I’m not necessarily in agreement, but I’m not looking for an argument this evening?
What strategy do you suggest? That’s not a debate gambit. I’d like to know.
The point is that no one up there called or calls their self a progressive. RF said they talked ideas to bring the people, but it was that the ideas were progressive.
That was no way an attempt to squelch tanbark. “Fair enough” mean fair enough. That was a real question. Is you answer to that question “nothing”?
Again, that’s not me goading, that’s me asking
Add in to what we’re up against what Richard Wolfe referred to on The Ed Show as goldfish swimming in a bowl = lazy journalists. Will be telling to see Dancin’ Dave’s interview with Romney on Sunday’s MTP. Well, actually I won’t be watching Dancin’ Dave. I’ll be watching Chris and Melissa.
See also the Matt Taibbi interview live on Huffington Post.
We gotta start somewhere. And as my writing hero Anne LaMott would tell you, just start. Bird by Bird.
I am honestly in the most precarious position with our “democracy” at this point. I have been working in the trenches, sometimes hard, and sometimes as hard as I have time to do, for years.
This year, I have zero enthusiasm for our national candidates, except I like them better, in all cases, than the opposition. I am talking major party, of course. I don’t know if I can tilt at windmills with the 3rd party, but I am very angry at being taken advantage of, and I have been telling everyone who calls asking for my time for their campaigns that I am not enthusiastic for them.
I am walking for local candidates, for state legislators mostly. I am giving money to local candidates. That is about the best I can do this year.
“What are we going to do about it?”
Nothing, unless you can un-shit the political bed.
When Barack Obama took office, he inherited an either-or situation: either he confronted the people whom had nearly ruined the country, or they would crawl out from the political swamp and eat him alive.
He laid down like a cur dog…and they have eaten him alive, and they’ve eaten the possibility of a real progressive agenda having some success, along with him. Everything that the people who are still flacking for him are saying, boils down to the idea that the republicans are so bad that the voters will forget just what a “bipartisan” jellyfish Obama has been. I have my doubts.
Unless something really unsavory about Romney comes out, I think there’s at least a 50-50 chance that he’ll win, and that Obama will go down as that poster boy for a failed president.
Again, even if Obama does win, with the repubs holding at least the House, how is he going to create the salvage operation that he’s so determinedly tanked on, for the past four years?
I don’t have a solution.
If you care, which I doubt (sorry, don’t know your motives, so perhaps I react too cynically), I’m reading bio of William Lloyd Garrison, and doing C&C of HZ (Howard Zinn) and PJ (Paul Johnson, Brit neocon who just lurves him some USA!, the anti-Zinn) on slavery.
Looking for some historic pattern that might provide a guide for today.
Short of another civil war, I still don’t see one.
One of the big probs is that WLG positioned issue of slavery in moral & religious terms. No one of his stature nor conviction today to come anywhere close to what he accomplished.
And it still took 3 decades and a brutal civil war to accomplish.
And the CW didn’t accomplish what WLG hoped it would, just a laughable approximation to it.
I hear you, bgrothus, do I ever. And I can tell from your comment before this that you get what I’m trying to say – which is that in terms of what appeals to so many Americans, we’ve got the goods.
Given that, what do we do to make it less precarious, in your opinion?
Why not read the cynics of the time, I assume there are some.
A few years ago, I was volunteering at the HS in my neighborhood and was reading with the students, novels about the civil war. I really did not appreciate, when I was in 7th or 8th grade and the CW was our subject in history, the truly terrible position that Lincoln was in during that time. I really see him in a new light, and our nation too, in a way. The death and destruction of that war (which we are clearly still fighting), for a young nation and tiny in population to soak up all that sorrow, well, I have a different sense of it now than when I was young.
When I listen to John Lewis talk about the civil rights movement and think about the people of my generation or thereabouts who died and were beaten and jailed to simply get the right to vote, I really don’t think I can afford to be cynical.
Shunt, yours was a fair question. I have no problem with your asking it. I’ve tried to answer it.
I think that when Obama came in, we were on a cusp; either he used that clout that he came in with to really try to change things, or the GOP would use the slack that he gave them to re-surge, and we would be treated to the black-humor hilarity of their constant shreiking about this yellow-dog democrat being some combination of Karl Marx and Franklin Roosevelt.
Now, I think it’s too late, and I also think that coasting along with this corporatist agenda is going to mean something in the next four years that will resemble 1929 in some very unpleasant ways. When that happens, I’d rather there be a republican in office than a “liberal” democrat.
I also wouldn’t mind seeing clear evidence that if you run as a progressive democrat, and they govern as a country-club republican, the voters will fire your ass at the earliest opportunity. I think that’s way more important than re-electing Obama and ensuring another four years of this miserable stasis, with the likely catastrophic result from doing it.
The same result is coming, I believe, except that with Romney, I think it will happen faster.
I think those on the progressive side need to look at running at our goals differently. In a different post, I suggested that a true progressive candidate for President needs to be chosen and start running for office 1-2 years prior to an actual election. Reasoning is that our candidate needs more time to raise money and media awareness to compete in the current system. I agree we have the message, I just think we need to start thinking of new tactics to win at the national level elections.
Links?
Who were the cynics of the time?
Thanks for giving a real answer. I can say to you that my motives aren’t nefarious, but since i’m the only one typing here that doesn’t carry a lot of weight. The sample is kind of small and skewed.
I’m in the middle of reading A People’s History and also Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel. The later really taxes my optimism.
From your studies, are there any places that just gave up slavery without a bloody fight? I don’t know the history well enough, but I do have a sense that it was a generally worldwide phenomenon. Did it include bloodshed in all instances. Again, a real question.
it’s hard to articulate because some of it is bullshit; “strenghthen social securrity” means cut it; Jon Walker had a post today about how Obama isn’t even on the high road on vouchercare; “i kinda sucked but give me another chance and i won’t suck as bad as the other guy” is, not real easy to articulate
You can always count on the Democrats to use progressive rhetoric to connect with the American people when they are desperate. Should they win it will be right back to the corporate fascist agenda that has served the “leaders” and the 1% so very well.
Two people who didn’t vote.
1. William Lloyd Garrison, until slavery war abolished.
2. W.E.B DuBois.
“I kinda sucked, but give me another chance…”
Thassit, ‘Toe…I’m looking for the bumper stickers, as I drive.
Well, that is tough. I have been speaking my truth to the campaigns, and our (apparent) next US Senator, who came up from our City Council, where I have spoken/worked on numerous issues over the years, will always know my name. He must know how I feel, and we are not on the better terms we have been on in the past. He will hear from me personally, my neighbor is doing a fundraiser for him next week, and I will be there. We have been to his office, we have confronted him on some issues he is bad on.
Our congressional candidate is also on first name basis with me, also from local stuff, and I am not on speaking terms with her at all after the nasty primary race she ran against the progressive candidate I worked for. I don’t expect to get anywhere with her in the future, and I know there is a price to pay. I don’t care right now. I am not going to do anything for her, including vote for her, unless it looks like the R will win. I doubt it. So I don’t think I am going to do anything at all for her. But I will tell her what I think, and we’ll see what she does in DC.
I have been arrested twice since October, with our local (un)Occupation. I think it is kind of like voting for a 3rd party, tilting at windmills, but my peers and other people give the action a lot of credibility and they seem to think well of it, though we are not increasing our numbers.
So I appreciate the dialog, and thanks for bringing it.
We have the winning message – and it’s time we started acting like it.
There’s a problem. Obysmal and his ilk don’t think you do. And Obysmal and his ilk are hard to shake off. And Obysmal and his ilk will make very sure that said winning message gets buried.
Good to see ya again hoss . . . just back from 8 daze festing, pre fest and post fest . . . picked it till they bled and cramped up.
And altho I love the diary, rcc’d, in the end it’s pure kabuki as you posit, of NO value to actually changing anything, reducing war machine, creating jobs, restoring habeus, restoring posse commitatus, eliminating indefinite rendition, restoring voting rights, eliminating corporate fascism, etc.
Rhetoric wise, Big Dawg was grand, but let’s not forget, it was HE that let Congress repeal Glass Steagall, and then pass Gramm/Leachy or whatever that sordid crap sell out to banking/finance deregulation was.
Women’s rights, and more, all coming under threat and the DIMS and Obama standing still so as to NOT lose their corporate overlords and the money to campaign on.
I’m back, and so is my prediction.
Empires always collapse and fail when they fail to account for the needs of the masses and concentrate power and wealth at the top.
We WILL collapse, mama nature is a major factor to the species collapse potential, and there’s always the phucking loonz who want to nuke Iran, China or someone and start The Last War and eliminate our species.
LOTS of options for this shit to collapse. lots.
N the DIMS and Obama are just shills for the 1%, that has not changed one iota, Big Dog Speak or not.
I’m voting 3rd party, end of story.
Ambrose Bierce was a cynical Civil War hero.
Many Americans have been programed by a corrupt ruling elite with an unconscious death wish. The 1% are arrogant enough to believe they’ll survive Armageddon.
You’ve struck on one hugely disappointing thing (of many and many) that Obama did, which was to turn his back on the optimistic hoard of young people that helped put him in office. Such a waste – both in terms of message and practical politics. I know a lot of people in Organizing For America that were eager to roll up their sleeves and try to fix things. Obama just threw that away.
I understand (I think) that you feel bad things are inevitable and better to let the conservative take the blame. I’m not at that place and so we disagree, but as I told eCAHN, I’m not looking for an argument tonight.
In a way, I’m hoping to see us not make a mistake similar to what I’ve described Obama as making. We have the stronger message and I don’t want to see us throw that away.
hey don’t get me wrong, the dems have a much better message; historically speaking; unfortunatelty they have, to a large degree, walked away from it; it’s hard to keep parroting the message under these circumstances
One of the reasons it’s taking me so long to read bio of WLG is bc he was such a unique character.
He used antinomian religious refs to the immorality of slavery, which guilted out a lot of RWMs who had some nodding acquaintance with the NT.
Don’t see anything like that today. Wondering how we could guilt out Xtians today who think that might makes right and wealth proves god approves of you and poverty proves you are a moral failure.
It’s about morality, but without a strong religious backing behind you, I don’t know how you make today’s issues mainstream.
Doesn’t Obysmal consider the “left” nothing more than “dirty fucking hippies?”
but here’s my biggest criticism of this post– It’s Big Dawg, as in Depity Dawg
Some of the young people I have been working with are not going to vote again, for sure. Some are still invested in voting. But I don’t find a lot of enthusiasm for it. I don’t think the Ds have a category based on age for convention delegates, but I think there were a fair number of younger people at the convention. I can’t believe the Rs have much enthusiasm from the young, except the teabangelicals.
Fair enough. What do we do about it?
Because that’s a verbatim repeat of a similar response I gave to somebody else, that might sound snarky. It isn’t. I’m legitimately asking.
Thank you. Local is no dif than any other level of concentrated power and wealth.
Local, the cops run you in, harass you, you lose your job, your housing, maybe family . . . THOSE are the things we lose when we get involved with this system at ANY level.
So, the ONLY local shit that will actually get anything done, is NOT within the system, by any means.
N the american people by large, loud mouthed gun toting survivalist libertarians and the rest of them, just don’t HAVE the cojones to actually revolt at this time.
So it WILL get worse, and then, erode, collapse.
Till then, I’m going out my last 20-30 years on this rock doing anything I want . . . with NO illusions of saving any of this. It’s me and mine, to the end of our days, good luck the rest of yas trying to save it all, just enjoy it while ya got it.
Cuz it’s ALL going away . . . jobs, etc., in OUR lifetime as boomers. If yer not rich, this nation will NOT care for you in your elder years, end of story.
Things might have turned out differently had the victors imposed a Keyser Soze peace on the “rebellious” South.
If that’s my biggest gaffe, I’m doin’ alright.
Well put, but I don’t recall a president who came in with such a real mandate, who has so utterly and determinedly squandered it.
No republican forced him to tell Reid to kill the Dorgan amendment…
No republican forced him to cave on a public option. All he had to do was run it up to the hill, dare the republicans to filibuster it, and then keep running it up, if they did.
He could have done this on so many things, and he would have been Captain America.
Instead, he’s the paramecium-in-chief, with the possible distinction of being the preznint who came in with more political clout than any other one-termer.
I don’t want to reward him for that, and I think that a lot more of the people who voted for him in 2008 won’t want to, either.
Bingo, well said and true to the t. ADFC I think it was, and yeah, medicare and medicaid are lined up. Jobs are NOT lined up, and as us boomers hit our 60′s with no work, incomes and without the riches for our end times, look for a HUGE population decline in the next 20 years.
Just what they want, too . . . we are the stiff and tuff generation, once we’re gone, the rest of the sheeple line up easily for the white minority rich 1% to manipulate, abuse, etc.
I’ll also be voting for Jill Stein. I expect to see seniors in the not too distant future turning to a life of crime.
Ding.
Dude, short of violent revolution, there IS no strategy to beat this deck of cards.
None.
It will kill us, it will eliminate the boomers, it will shrink the population, it will preserve it’s own 1% at all costs.
No upsides, none.
Other than, it WILL collapse, of its own volition, mama nature or The Last Great War when some dumb ass nukes Iran or China.
It IS what it is, dude. Rather hopeless, outmanned, outgunned and way beyond the hands of we the people, short of violent revolution, and we the people don’t have the stones for that at this point. Not the boomers, anyway.
Enjoy the ride that us boomers got 20-30 years left, do what we can for ourselves and our family and friends perhaps by sharing resources. Ignore the ugly, don’t be depressed cuz we can’t change shit, pick, sip, sup, love openly and deeply.
We don’t have a rats ass choice in these matters, so why play the game and get twisted panties about it all?
Run the table and have some fun while ya can.
End of story.
yer doin’ alright– i mmean, you anticipated the grief you’re getting-including from me) but it’s provacative
the answer to your question, in my view, is we do nothing-we have no money (i asssume by “we” you mean progressives)
Yea, ideas, not action, change, or progressive minded betterment.
Corporate fascism is the rule of the land, our democratic republic has long gone away . . . end of story.
Live it full while life is still coursing thru yer veins, cuz the politics, power and control are fully out of the hands of we the people.
Sure, but I’m not talking about this November. What’s on my mind is the long haul.
I have not read ONE word about anyone saying you squelched anyone, not Tan, me or eCahn.
MY point is, it’s over, useless, there IS no solution other than the recourses I’ve already outlined . . . there IS no discourse that will set these matters straight for the benefit of we the people.
SO, your attempt to pluck some thing of value from this mess is utterly futile, useless.
Yet you continue to repeat the same behavior and request despite the abject KNOWING that this is failed effort.
Why? You refuse to accept the reality as it is, perhaps? You seek pie in the sky? Pollyanna? It’s just not there, I’m sorry to harsh the mellow . . . the reality is here, it is what it is.
*G*
With the Citizens United ruling black money is buying this election. Black money – money we don’t, and cannot know, where it is coming from.
Without any doubt foreign powers like China. Russia and Saudi Arabia are buying themselves congressmen and senators as we speak.
And why not? It’s the best bargain on the face of the earth.
For 2 million for a congressman and 5 or 6 million for a senator they get a seat at the table of the government of the United States of America.
You can be 100% certain this is happening.
And come November 7th the newly elected government of this country will be illegitimate.
Foreign powers will have purchased the election, and with it, our government.
We must denounce this coming illegitimate government and demand that both parties pass a law immediately that all election in this country are publicly funded.
And and that TV stations, who broadcast over public airwaves give free time for the commercials of candidates running for elected office so millions aren’t needed to fund a campaign.
We must demand this right away as the time is nearing when all of us can say that the government of this country is representing foreign powers..
We disagree then. And I’ve kept saying that I’m not looking to argue, but I do want to make this one point.
What is *it* exactly, that will collapse? What is it composed of? What are its constituent parts?
If by *it* you mean society in general, than its constituent parts are us. And this little, individual piece of that us isn’t ready to declare myself helpless. I’m just not. And the point of my blog post is that the behavior of those most cynical of Democrats indicates that there’s a lot of us-es that want more than just the most comfortable possible seat on the ship as it goes down.
Geebuz, clean journo and good writing is NOT gonna phreakin one single thing we the people suffer from.
But hey, it’s sort of a free country for now, kinda, depending on your circumstances, so you go ahead ma’am, and think good thots.
It would be like, totally inappropriate for me to harsh your knowledge and info base mellow . . . and I LIKE Matt T, it’s just that, it don’t matter.
Zinn says it, Chomsky says it, hundreds of real reporters and writers world wide say it (see Antiwar dot com) . . . they spell it all out, good, bad, how and why.
The details are clear and clean, we KNOW all the info.
N we are powerless at this point to change one phreakin iota of it all, other than to step in and stop bullies, fight crime, and care for one another in our own personal lives.
NO ONE, NO ONE, is there to do these things for us in this system anymore.
Get it? The Democratic Republic has been dismantled, bought, and taken over. The Constitution is null n void.
We The People do not have an ounce of influence over the Matters Of The People, not one ounce.
So, in a sense, I’m preachin what some of you others are.
It all starts with yourself, and doing good.
I don’t think that shit will change anything, but if I stop ONE bully, one crime, and don’t get killed, then I did all I can.
For a so called arm chair proggy NOT active in local politics and chastized by others who think they know shit, I believe MY way is far more effective and bold, risky, and fraught with fear and danger.
That was NOT directed to you PS, but to a multitude of folks who label me as a non doer, a not activist . . . I’m a doer, I’m an activist, I’m GREATLY involved, daily, in every moment.
NO ONE gets by me with abuse, mean, and such. I don’t know what else to do. And I’ll die fighting for that. From the street, from the keyboard, in the office place.
Harumph.
Winning message? Is whose?
Have read the above myFDL diary several times and cannot see/find any mention or mentioning of Barack Obama. Plenty of Bill Clinton being mentioned/described but no naming of Barack Obama.
Interesting to also note it is Bill Clinton’s photo that is shown.
Photo(s) of Barack Obama too hard to find?
W.J.Clinton served his last day as POTUS on Jan.20,2001. Well over a decade ( 10 years ) ago. Bill Clinton’s wife — Hillary — made a run for the WH during 2007/2008 but was eclipsed by Barack Obama’s effort to win the WH as a D. Hillary is now the Secretary of State in the Obama WH and one would be not out of line to suggest HRC may well desire/seek to become the Ds POTUS #1 candidate in 2016.
This “winning” piece is a good D Party rah-rah piece as D Party rah-rahs go…and it is certainly pro Bill Clinton. But we are not being asked to support/vote for Bill Clinton here in 2012.
We are being given Barack Obama. Letting Barack Obama win the WH again in 2012 will send a ” I win/I won” validation to Barack Obama for what Obama as POTUS has done/not done since Jan.20,2009. Giving Barack Obama such a validation is a genuine electoral IED in view of what Barack Obama has done/is doing as POTUS.
Bill Clinton knows how to stemwind with the best of ‘em — not going to dispute that being so. Do need to question the premise of this my FDL diary on the D rah-rah stuff. On the Make Obama Do It Stuff. On the You Do It First Even Tho You Are Not POTUS stuff. Going to give a B on the rah-rah — a C on the message and a D on the relevance of Bill Clinton to this 2012 WH election. Or was this a very early outside,long shot about 2016 and Ds and HRC? If not no foul…if so? …. giving it a F.
No more Clintons in the WH. One was enough. What? Out of over 300 million Americans we cannot conduct the WH without Bushes and Clintons or Obama DINOs post Ronald Reagan? Sheesh.
It’s good to hear that. That is where the hard work has to start. That is where you may find your next star. I hope. This trash we have now are not helping us, just themselves.
I was responding to a specific comment – this one:
That’s all, simple as that.
I know now that this is your take on our situation. Sorry that I don’t automatically accept that as “reality”
And it appears that you object to someone asking what can be done. O.K., I won’t ask you ever again.
But I will continue to ask others who might have something to offer on the question.
I have great respect for those of you out there who ARE actively involved in the political process. I would NEVER disparage you or your efferts, any of you.
But hoss, maybe it’s just plain phreakin time to stop jousting, take care of you, yours, and family and friends, and let the world go on.
I just don’t believe activism within this political system is of any value wrt changing it.
I vote, oh yeah. But I don’t expect anything I do to change the systems . . . daily, I fight for every step I and others take. Every step. I will suffer abuse, meanness, etc. I call it out when I see it, and I risk myself by doing so.
Might not be right for everyone, but hey, I just decided one day, to walk away from the political system. It’s of no value to me, so why should I cater to it, or fight it.
Waste of my time.
I’m MUCH happier these days, knowing I can’t save the world, but hey, I MIGHT save someone, a kid, a cat, just by not letting shit go down if I see it.
Course, I play music a lot, love my wife, and have fun, that helps. ;-)
I do think we picked the wrong horse in ’08. But then I don’t know what other choice was any better. Someone over at Tbogg made the point that a better day may come from the bottom up. So what bgrothus is doing is building a better day. It just guts you when the guy who we thought had so much promise is looking for a grand bargain to reduce the safety net.
That’s because the blog post was not necessarily about personalities, it was about message. And what the rhetoric of the DNC meant in regards to the progressive message in particular.
He’s not, and that shock in 4 more years! is gonna cause some seriously DIM/LIB panty shats as they watch him dismantle our safety nets we all paid into as boomers.
I’m srsly gonna enjoy this shit, as crow is eaten, if any of us survive it . . . . ;-)
That is an imperative. Not only Citizens United must go but the unlimited money to buy the elections. You said public funding, I agree.
Just a little OT but did you ever wonder how those five on the supreme court could make such an awful ruling. I think they will go down in history as five of the most evil men ever. One day someone will call them all traitors.
Hey Larue,
Let me add something.
I’m not criticizing you at all. Honestly, I’m not.
We all play the cards we’re dealt and that’s our call. You play your hand your way, I’ll play my hand mine.
In this blog post, I was making a point about the contents of the deck.
There ARE no progressive options within this political system Papa, yer dreaming a dream that’s not real.
Get with it, hoss, there ARE no options within this political system for progressive, socialist, we the people benefits.
None.
Once you get that, REAL futility and depression sets in, and then, BOOM, you start living life within your reality and really, really, caring for those close to ya, or around ya on a daily basis.
Changing this shit is not a possibility, not within the system, and I seriously doubt, without the system . . . there will be no revolution, of them hard core libertarians would have started one by now. They bold with a gun in the woods, not so much against an organized army with their lives at stake.
;-)
Oh no – not that! :)
Well, I don’t believe in the Arm . . . nor biblical prophecy.
But I SURELY believe in our species capability to trigger nukes and wipe us out.
Good to see yer fonts again Blue . . . ;-)
The message is meaningless!
Do you not get that?
It’s the actions that count.
I don’t GET your Pollyanna about this messaging, and I was a com studies major, journo minor, did time in radio and tv broadcast.
I GET analysis of message.
IT’s of no practical value! It will NOT change anything!
Arrrgghhhh.
N bless yer heart and vital organs.
*G*
He had the chance and let it slip through him. Imagine if last night he had said, we are not going to cut the deficit, we are going to spend on infrastructure and put people to work and if you want that I want your vote and I want you to vote our candidates in congress. I think he would then win. But shit I dream.
Enough of the dream time. Gonna get some real dreaming done.
LMAO!!!
One of the greatest B Movies of all time, love me some Spacey.
Damn it’s good to read yer fonts again . . . *G*
Something we agree on.
You’ll note that my repeated question (which I am NOT asking of you, I promised after all.) isn’t “what can we say about it” but rather “what do we do about it”
And to be clear, for myself I am doing, not just talking or blogging.
Damn, Tan, yer on faher, I sure miss yer missives . . .
You still obsessed with petrified tone woods?
*G*
Never thot I’d say this, but, there was a dearth of 5 Pickers this fest. Under the streetlights, in the camps . . . on stage we had more n a few 5′s and reso’s of reknown.
Gulp, I missed the 5. Gulp.
Bravo to you, RFShunt. Recommended.
Too bad you have too many nihilists and unclear thinkers who cannot see what you’re ACTUALLY talking about vs. what they THINK you’re talking about.
The message sells, and when people get wrapped around their axles about WHO said the message? That’s their problem – not yours.
Thank you kindly, Kelly.
But if my own message is misunderstood, then the fault is mine. Just goes to show, I’m no Big Dawg. (Dawg – got it, Beerfart)
I’d vote for Pretty Boy Floyd, in a heart beat.
Or Woodrow Guthrie . . .
” . . . some will rob you with a 6 gun, some with a fountain pen.”
” . . . but in all this time I’ve lived in, I’ve never seen an outlaw, force a family from their home.”
I saw 13 or more of the hottest, biggest and most talented folk/americana pickers doing the Woody Guthrie Tour at the fest I just came back from . .
An hour and a half set, 5,000 proggy disciples in the audience at 4,300 ft in the Sierras 7 miles outside Yosemite.
If ya wanna know the names, let me know, and I’ll post them.
When that gang on stage, all acoustic instruments, ‘grass wise, broke into This Land Is My Land, I and the others choked up and could hardly sing along.
What a grand and refreshing awakening. Very Proggy, in every way. Jimmy La Fave, leader of this pack of varmits, did Woody Guthrie readings inbetween songs, to tell the story behind the songs, to tell Woody’s life, his thots, his actions.
You just don’t GET more progressive than Woody Guthrie. Or Utah Phillips, The Wobblies, etc.
That shit’s sadly missing, dearly sadly missing, in our present times of hardship, economic downturn, loss of farms, homes and healthcare.
Not necessarily. When people ignore what you actually wrote, it’s their frikking issue. There’s plenty of that on this thread.
How you win?
Educate! Educate! Educate! and be willing to win by any means necessary
Story below is how you win!
Teacher Union supports Republican because Dem candidate likes Charter Schools
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/teachers-unions-republican-candidates_n_1847532.html
this Teacher Union launch a missle directly toward Dems who hate Unions.
Instead of been kick in the teeth by a DINO, this teacher Union attack the DINO, by supporting the DINO enemy
the enemy of my enemy is my friend
by taking this action? this teacher Union made it clear to all DINOs we will attack you! no more Passes
sites like FDL educate a lot of people!
especially UNION members, I did not say Union Leadership.
now Obama and other Dinos are begging for Union members to help them combat Romney army of Mormons.
What did Obama do for Unions? not much
FDL educated a lot of Union members about the veal pen.
I feel like progressives are losing ground every month, overall.
GMO crops, raised on poisoned soil that runs off (when the drought stops!) into the Mississippi basin, into the Gulf, where it meets up with BP’s oil and the CO2-enhanced, increasingly acidic ocean, while back on shore the hundreds of thousands of tons of spent fuel rods welcome their new neighbors into spent-fuel pools whose safety certification was faked or passed over.
Taking over the school board isn’t going to help any of that soon enough to do any good.
Watching how little coverage the increasing militant civil disturbances are getting in Japan may show us where the next stage here will be. The media has already downplayed the importance of the Occupy movement and related protests here. But I predict, as more deaths, disease and deformation come to light in Japan, that country will quickly go from one of the most accommodating to the PTB, to open rebellion.
That is a more likely future here than is a steady growth of progressive power in politics.
“The message sells, and when people get wrapped around their axles about WHO said the message? That’s their problem – not yours.”
You are seriously trying to blame me for Candidate Obama circa 2008 explicitly campaigning against individual mandate to only then have President Obama go and do 180 once in office (amongst many other things)? Are you seriously telling me that you’re going to defend Limbaugh, Hannity, Romney, etc because they gave a nice sounding sentence or paragraph – I’m not seeing how you couldn’t be out there on point for Rush Limbaugh, if what you are saying is to only listen to the message while ignoring the messenger.
Bless you, yer heart, and all yer vital organs.
(John Duffey, famed tenor/mando with Seldom Scene)
*G*
I blame no one. Please read the actual post. The salient lines are these, emphasis added:
1) It’s already all bought, corporate fascism owns our nation.
2) Foreign powers? Really? What, are you some kind of Aryan Nationalist? Dude, it’s corporate fascism, yer drifting too far from the shore on this reality. I smell stinky shit coming from you.
3) Yer whole foreign invested and owned government smacks of jive ass white racism and libertarian croaking and screaming.
Please, when yer ready for a grown up discussion of foreign interests, in our government which is corporate owned and owns the planet, let me know.
Cuz at this point, yer sorely misinformed.
Know Thyself and Know Thy Enemies? and you will never be defeated Art of War Sun Tzu
most progressives and conservatives have no clue who their enemies are.
all TV in the USA is owned and control by conservatives
“msnbc gives you the illusion of a liberal media”
capitalism has never really worked and probably never will work.
a little war call WW2 helped capitalism survive for 40 years.
With Europe and the rest of World in Ruins, the USA thrived! however once Europe was re-built capitalism started fading yet again.
FDR did not want to do what he done, he knew he had no choice! He knew and understood, the Govt. was the only tool to keep Capitalism from killing itself.
Clinton thought FDR was wrong, and bang withing a couple of years, Capitalism crash yet again.
Obama refuses to face reality, sometimes the PUPPET has to grow a Brain and say, if I don’t take rope away from Capitalism, it will soon hang itself yet again, and kill us all.
May I add that he, the “paramecium-in-chief”, pretty much single-handedly resurrected the Rethuglican party.
Also based on recent and not so recent events, it’s pretty clear that both he and Clinton are just water carriers for Pete Peterson.
Many times I have heard people complain that he stands for nothing, which is not true, he stands for himself first, last and always, just like Clinton.
Don’t know exactly how Clinton went from pauper immediately after he left office to having millions, but maybe it was not just honorariums, perhaps Pete had some hand in that and I’m sure the “paramecium-in-chief” is similarly expecting to find a pot of gold at the end of his presidency.
Furthermore, looking at the tea leaves, Obummer ever caved on anything. His pre-negotiation “caves” were part of an agreement to take part of the blame for what both he and the Rethugs mutually want to do.
Seems to be a game of 11 dimensional chess to share the credit(blame) for what they both want to do that us little people will hate. If they both take some of the hit us little folks won’t know who to hate more and if he gets his pot of gold he won’t give a shit.
If he gets reelected he will probably be willing to give away more to get Pete Peterson his Grand Bargain.
Other than SCOTUS nominations that might be better under Obummer I agree with people who say that the only difference between Obummer and Romney will be the speed that they shred the safety net.
We will fracture as a nation like USSR did, fracture like Rome did.
I think that’s phreakin obvious to any one who would posit the things you do . . . . n let’s not turn this onto me, or about me.
Let’s keep onto your diary, and MY thots about it.
N BTW, depending on your age, you might live to see this death of empire . . . hell, if you live 20 years more, you might see a LOT of stuff to set you to horror and hell.
Don’t like that? Get tuff.
Uh, sorry, they dictate who makes money, Obama is beholden to the DNC, they are beholden to the corporate fascists who own them, fund them, direct them.
Big Dawg is just shillin for money, he’s good at it.
I’m sorry, did you have a point I don’t already get, about politics and politicians being fully owned and operated by corporate fascism?
Too bad I didn’t read your response to this “we have the best message” crap before I took foredoglake off my list of bookmarks.
Hey, ya read it! Kewl!
*G*
Hey ET,
I don’t dispute the direness of things. You could have made your list longer by several orders of magnitude and not encompassed it all.
<blockquoteTaking over the school board isn’t going to help any of that soon enough to do any good.
What I was hinting at the end of the blog post was more along the lines of the value of creating the mechanism that takes over the schoolboard, and then deploying that mechanism in a more general way.
But your question about whether that helps things soon enough is valid enough.
It appears from the reaction to my post that I’ve struck a nerve with some. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Some of those jangled nerves have called me a Pollyanna, but I think there’s more than just two choices – Pollyanna vs chucking it all.
Just as I think there’s more than just the two choices of accommodating the PTB or total open rebellion.
Hmm, point somewhat taken.
But I’ll stand with eCahn and myself.
There ARE no solutions that have no already been discussed, posited, analyzed, poured over and such.
By FAR greater researchers than myself, I might add.
You gonna hope for better? Hah!
They knew what they were doing. After all, they are fascists and they are paid very well for it.
Yep, Indeed. Well put, Blue.
Do you understand leverage? Or don’t you?
Seems you don’t.
it is foolish for progressives or any intelligent human being to think that the 1% will put their lives and lively hood in the hands of the 99%? vote all you want
you do know, the rich in the USA have been rich since the USA was built wealth never really trickles down, it has always trickled up!
to beat, the elites, you must stop thinking there are rules!
the elites always make sure the rules benefit them.
what if the Koch Heads aka Koch Brothers were tricked into funding a progressives all the way to congress? what would happen?
what if 30 people ran as hard core Tea Baggers, and once they got elected to congress said, Hey I feel like a Liberal.
Obama acted like a progressives, it got him to the WHITE HOUSE?
and the media calls him a socialist? who owns the media? the conservatives who have own the USA from day 1
once progressives start playing by the rules elites play by, which are no rules, you will never win.
OWS scared the 1%, because OWS says! Wall Street runs the USA, not DC.
all war is base on Deception! DC is where the puppets play, Wall Street is the home of the Puppet Masters, always has been, always will be.
We kewl, I got that. But rhetoric, and analysis of rhetoric, is best left for the academe IMHO.
It is inherently WORTHLESS in these times, as a change agent.
I’m SURE you know this.
;-)
Nite everybody. It’s a full day tomorrow.
Thank you for all the responses. It’s been interesting and challenging.
Blue, I about had a heart attack just reading you thots.
Yeah, imagine . . . rebuild it all, put us all to work, that alone.
LeSigh, alas, that’s not what the corporate fascists pay Obama to say, do, or pay either party to say or do.
Man I wish you coulda seen Jimmy La Fave, Slaid Cleeves, Eliza Guykilson, Tim O’Brien, Joe Craven, n a dozen others on the Wood Tribute.
I’m tellin ya, hearin Jimmy La Fave read them words and works of Woody . . . INSPIRING! HOPE!
Alas, it was all long ago, and NO one, NO one, is claiming, clamoring, singing, fighting and campaigning for the things he did in HIS lifetime.
This Land Is Our Land.
Ok people, when the fuck will you claim it back?
Argh.
Wow, I is college educated, I get analysis of rhetoric, but I still fail to see how any of this changes reality.
N yer wading in?
Am I missing something?
About the reality we face, the utterly and complete usurp of our political system, economic system, and all other systems?
About the complete and utter chokehold on we the people by the corporate fascists?
You would posit AGAINST these things?
FUcking ouch, or did I miss something, my brother o my brother.
?
ET, yes.
As we lose more and more, at some point I still hold hope, we the people will revolt.
But I’m not optimistic that will happen.
Loss of food, lodging, jobs and hope, however, can change a large population hard and fast.
If there IS a revolt, against the 1% and the moneyed rich leaders of the world, I’d guess the gun toting libertarians and their GOP/NRA ilk will far to the rear guard.
Hell, I bet they white assed ignorant butts switch to the PTB side they chided all along.
Ah Well, on we trudge, N I sure as hayall intend to do it with a happy smile when I’m not smacking down DIMS n GOP n corporate fascists.
Hmmm, Pachelbel Canon in D Minor. On dobro? In G tuning? Is that possible?
*G*
Yes, you’re missing something.
What RF actually wrote, versus what you’re replying to.
Read correctly, you’ll find you agree.
Yep, end of story.
Well told.
WTF? Do you understand the reality, corporate fascism?
Yer killin me.
Your posit that Big Dawg’s rhetoric means something to the masses, and as such, means anything in terms of change, is completely flawed.
All it means is that the DIMS win the erection.
Nothing else.
N the reality I and many others proscribe continues. Not to the benefits of we the people.
Please.
Yer killin me.
Get with the reality, lose the rhetoric. It’s meaningless, even the people don’t really buy that shit it’s just SOLD as such, by folks like our media, and YOU.
But it’s meaningless.
Nah, I don’t think so.
Rhetoric, and RF trying to convince me we the people BUY the rhetoric, and then we believe that will CHANGE shit, in this system?
Nah, I don’t think so, love ya dearly, but we completely disagree on this one.
Words are meaningless in this sitch we the people are in.
N for the most part, so are any actions WITHIN the systems that exist.
Live, love, sip, sup, pick, sang and play hard.
Fuck the rest of it.
;-)
Hey folks, thanks for the chats.
I’m movin on to other things.
No harms, no fouls, shut up and sip, sup, pick and sang all ya yahoo’s.
Really.
*G*
Good to be back, but I think I’ll avoid this stuff . . . there just are NOT any change agents, at FDL, Occupy, or out there.
So I think I’ll just enjoy what life is left . . . n beat up bullies when I come across them. I’m still good for that fight. Daily.
;-)
Shunt, thanks for joining in…and taking a little stick while you’re at it…:o)…
instead of just pulling rank and telling the oppo to shut up because you’re a “blogger” and we’re just “commenters”. :o)
‘noches, Larue…
(I was beating up on Morpheus and missed a good chunk of things. :o) )
You really don’t understand the game at all.
I think the real question is, with the limited amount of time human beings have left before environmental collapse makes all other issues irrelevant, is it worth it to engage in political struggles or better to spend time with the people you’re close to?
Funny you should ask.
The Republicans split from the Whigs over the latter’s unwillingness to challenge the dominant Democratic party’s tolerance of slavery as a necessary evil to preserve it’s electoral coalition.
Hmmm…wonder what lesson progressives might take from that?
Hint: it doesn’t involve mindlessly supporting a slightly less compromised Democratic party as “the lesser evil”.
hey Larue! My wife and I saw Jimmy LaFave, Slaid, Sarah Guthrie and her husband, and some others who I can’t remember do a Woody Guthrie tribute at the Moab Folk Music Festival a number of years ago. It was hours long and it was great!
The US Constitution was written by enlightened 18th century property holders, “men of substance” and they wrote it to protect themselves against “popular democracy”. It is designed to dampen and deflect its being taken over by the “great unwashed” and it has worked as it was designed all these years. Other countries have other systems… Holland and Israel make coalitions with many small parties, this has advantages and disadvantages. However,the American system is not parliamentary and we are stuck with it. As readers are probably aware, politics in America requires incredible amounts of money, so any viable third party would have to be started by a billionaire… this is what the Koch brothers have done with the Tea Party or maybe Bloomberg and Soros might put something together. The only way to pressure this system is through activism as MLK did. Anyone who really wants to change things in America has to work in issue-based activism… To be so active that its pressure compensates the lobby’s money.
As to the coming election… possibly a Trotskyista could make a coherent case for a Romney win, something which would hopefully raise the level of corruption and working class pain unbearably and lead to revolution… I find that rather heartless and ultimately idiotic.
What is essential in my opinion in this particular election is to get enough liberal Supreme Court justices appointed in the coming years to reverse the Citizen’s United ruling, which is vital for any positive change to ever occur… If the Republicans get in this wont happen. Really it is as simple as that.
There’s no hope for that in this capitalist devolution.
My comment was directed at you for what you’ve said in this thread, not RF. You explicitly blamed others (“their problem”) for considering who the messenger was when a message is said:
“The message sells, and when people get wrapped around their axles about WHO said the message? That’s their problem – not yours.”
That some message sells I care very much who is delivering it. I noticed how you distinctly avoided addressing whether or not you’d be out telling people they are at fault if Rush Limbaugh et al used a a message that sells and took issue with who the messenger was.
You have to be very modest in what you think you can get from the system-system, but outside the system, the sky is the limit. MLK wrote the book… J. Edgar Hoover wanted him terminated with extreme prejudice, because finally his “outside” affected the “inside”.
The message would be even more effective if we didn’t know the Democrats are lying.
http://youtu.be/0sTye4wUlkY
That parliamentary democracy is preferable is just another Great White Trope. Ask the Caribbean.
Hmm, this thread is still going on.
Your question has merit and it’s one that can only be answered by each person for themselves.
But it suggests another question to me. Is it that either-or? I don’t think so. I think it’s perfectly possible to engage in activism and still “have a life” as it were.
Hello, David.
Lots of interesting points in your comment. I’d like to respond with a few of my own.
What if it didn’t necessarily take a billionaire for an third party? Cory Doctorow said something interesting in a talk he gave. (I’d find a link but I have to leave in a few minutes) He said that activism used to be 98% envelope-stuffing and 2% thinking about what should go into the envelope. But the internet gives you the envelope stuffing for free.
Occupy Wall Street and all the satellite occupations happened despite all the best efforts to keep all those unwashed masses from organizing (or at least organizing as much as they did). It happened because of all this new connectivity we have. This really is, in my opinion, a new thing and it changes the game.
Thanks for starting this discussion. As someone who can barely write a coherent comment, I don’t know what the answer is, but this issue of message and action is very important.
Right wing framing, from pseudo-serious deficit hysteria or government-is-the problem talk to outright bigotry and hysteria just keeps expanding indefinitely to fill a void. Except as you say, an occasional speech, nothing coherent and sustained will come from the Dems and their media shills, because they don’t believe in anything anymore except the status quo, and won’t act on anything they may say in a speech, which discredits even their few good speeches.
The original Declaration of OWS, put the myriad of problems we face into a single, coherent framework. This vision seems to be getting translated into action in two ways (I’m not on the ground, so these are just impressions from afar).
First, alliances in local organizing. This provides simpey synergy first of all – different groups working on different issues attending each others rallies or providing support at local meetings. But it’s also an opportunity to make the real connections among issues, and develop a common language. Homelessness, foreclosures, fracking, school closings – whatever is happening locally, the connections need to be made about causes, who benefits/suffers, how is power and wealth distributed in this situation, what do we want and need as a community, what belongs to all of us?
Second is participation by local organizing groups in regional or national alliances, whether formally affiliating with a group, meeting, or sharing resources and ideas, but again developing a common language and context.
As far as whether it’s already too late, I don’t know. But except for those who may decide that the only thing to do is hunker down, anything else – local sustainability efforts, rapid response to things like fracking and the imminent lame duck dismantling of the safety net ,all need to be done with this same clarity of what’s at stake, who the adversary is, what and who we want to be as a community, what belongs to us, etc.
So, on good days, I think a new language is developing, and it’s connected to action. We do need to formulate coherent ideas, readily understandable facts, and blunt, clear language. I don’t think it’s the traditional Dem/liberal/etc. language, however. It will have to be the language of the 99% that we hope we see emerging and developing.
I don’t know, Mary, you state it pretty well.
As somebody who is a little more “on the ground” than you say you are (not as much as I would like – we’ve all got to make a living) I see the same things happening that you do. What remains of Occupy here in my town is talking to all the groups you describe and more. It’s slow work.
What prompted me to write this piece was the realization that the strongest rhetoric in the DNC used language that was more in tune with the 99% than I’d heard before. All the more surprising that it came out of Bill Clinton’s mouth. I think a lot of commenters could not brook anything that smacked of praise for Clinton and so my point was muddied. Oh well. Maybe I should have put it in the form of a fable or parable. But it made for interesting discussion.
And now I’m off to do voter registration. Good thing this thread is nearly dead – because I have the feeling I’d hear much about the futility of that.
I hear you. All I could do was wonder how the Haitian people liked the speech.
And how they must have liked Clinton being sent to save them after the devastation by hurricane, so soon after the devastation by the very same Clinton, and his fun game of destroying their self-sustaining life-saving rice trade, to get more wealth for U.S. mega-corporate agribusinesses.
Yeah, I’ll be voting Jill Stein too.
You are right… The troops are there and the techniques are there too, only a few pieces are missing, like focus and leadership… I think these will appear fairly soon… ideas and people usually appear when the time is ripe.
Might … might … might be this and might be that. Might my sorry white pockmarked skank ass. And sorry to say that Hunter S. Thompson was right when he said, “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro” because that’s exactly what happens in the grand scheme of things. We can have all the edge-you-mah-kay-shun in the world at our disposal, and have all the resonating messages. But the one message that will always resonate the most and more often is the same message a famous comedian opines in between swallows of chilled rotgut in a glass: YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID … especially when Stupid Joe and Jane Voter-Drone has been habitually conditioned to hold their nose and vote for the “pros” — every single time.
If we want to keep this nation, we might just have to re-learn from the very hypocrite slave-owning grifter sonsabitches that found this nation. After all, what do you do when Driftglass’s policy of “Shameless Process Whoredom” has shown a consistent failure rate that paradoxically emboldens the status-quo more often than it breaks and busts their monotony in a billion bits? The original founding grifter-fathers followed the same “Shameless Process Whore” policies until they finally hit rock bottom and said, “Since King George won’t listen to ballots, let’s try BULLETS!”
Back the next day, reading your comment here.
I guess . . . look, they only SAY that shit to get elected, that’s what Barack did first time, same thing he’s doing second time.
In NO WAY has he governed anywhere near what his rhetoric was, and in NO WAY will he govern if reelected to match THIS election’s rhetoric.
The rhetoric is NOT representative of the public at large, real proggies are too few to influence elections . . . and it’s just RHETORIC to get elected.
I fully disagree with your construction that the DIM rhetoric matches the public at large, and even if if it did, it’s worthless in terms of governing and action, cuz it’s rhetoric! It’s lies! They will NOT govern accordingly to their rhetorical flowery promises.
That’s been pretty well proven past 4 years.
So, we’re back to the beginning, the rhetoric is of NO value. None whatsoever. Won’t change a thing, is NOT symbolic of any public at large, it’s words designed to fool, encourage, shape, bend and suck in the very same people he fooled the first erection and then sold out from day one in orafice.
It’s to get votes, and once those votes are gotten, let’s see what he dissembles social programs wise, let’s see what he imposes fascist corporate oligarch wise upon the public and we the people, let’s see him bail out the 1% and kill the middle class further and further and destroy all the FDR n LBJ programs that raised prosperity and civil rights for millions and 3 generatons or more.
Cuz, what he/they say, is of NO value to we the people, they’ve effing PROVEN that. And if you believe that stuff has ANY value, yer just not the kind of person I can communicate with about reality or social needs . . . or being good humans.
And I don’t want people with your precepts running this country or supporting it in that manner. Cuz yer killin the rest of us.
But it’s a free country sorta, kinda, and your voice is allowed to have it’s bark . . . but man, YOU people are killin us as bad as the GOP or the DIMS or the corporate fascists with your refusals to accept the reality at hand.
And I find that really, really, really, sad. And I go on with MY life, knowing there’s not much I can do nationally, but that any efforts on MY part have to be daily, and not politically oriented.
I have to care for others, intervene when people are out of line abusing others, and do the best I can with the people I come across on a daily basis in real life.
How about this, RF, you call out shit for when you see it, in real life, every time. That’ll get MY grudgingly stubborn support for your messaging. ;-)
Morpheus wins a lot of them times . . . *G*
And you are a one liner parody of shill that has NOTHING to offer to this conversation, this arguement, or this dialogue.
You have offered NOTHING but inept and empty repeated one liners. YOU got nothing, or else you’d have used it by now.
Lemme know when you buy some big boy panties and can zip them up by yerself . . . cuz yer underwear is wrapped around yer ankles with yer lack of ability to actually SAY something.
I’d be rather close guarded about predicting that kind of stuff, and certainly laying it all on mama nature’s handiwork.
There IS mama nature’s work, but there’s also the failure of empires that dooms them when they fail to care for the masses, there’s the possibility of a hot war breaking out and expanding globally, in a hurry, and there’s the possibility of the people revolting in a violent way.
So, my ONLY point is, I wound NOT toss an exclusive to mama nature as being the end all issue . . .
As to the other part of your comment, I HEARTILY endorse you notions and inclinations, fully and with great verve.
We can do NOTHING to change this at this point. Sip, Sup, Pick, Love, Hold, Cuddle, and go about your day fighting hate and evil at every instance possible, knowing that your family needs and wants you alive as long as possible (which might limit SOME actions to prevent yer early demise).
Really loved your comment in that regard . . . spot on.
Despite my heated replies, I’ll echo that kudo . . . thanks for bringing that up . . . but I STILL don’t know what Shunt’s intentions are . . . ‘what’s he HIDING in there, we have a right to know’ -Tom Waits
*G*
Bingo.
Yep, they have been doing this Woody Tribute for a few years now. It was fully incredible, this one out here. Tim O’Brien joined in, members of GreenSky Bluegrass joined in . . . half the fest still there (performers) joined in.
Magic, pure magic of music, as Woody well knew.
N yes, that music machine DOES kill fascists!
Que me and hit, Pretty Boy Floyd!!!
*G*
Thanks for sharing, sorry to diary author for offtrack commenting, but this was special stuff, very progressive stuff went down with the audience . . . revived the concept that outlaws were good to the people in heard times and robbed banks not farmer, cuz banks is where the money was.
Still is. ;-)
I fully concur with your premises early on.
I fully disagree that MLK activism will ever get going, much less will anyone step up to that level or role.
N here’s why:
1) They did a hell of a job killin JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm, and even Paul Wellstone. Message sent.
2) For modern times, see Kucinich, Sanders, and Grayson caving on issues. For REAL reality, see Kuch take a ride on AirForce 1 and come down and cave fully on ACA, public option, and stop protesting the corporate writ beneficiary legislation that enables pHarma and insurance to continue to reap huge profits.
3) The american public is not gonna revolt because there are not enough of them that have been squashed down yet. But that tide is rising, and the PTB best measure how hard they press that tide. Cuz, when empires neglect the masses, they invite disaster, history proves it.
For now, the corporate fascists, MIC and police state are all well poised to snuff out any and all voices, opposition that threatens them, and protect their wealth and power.
Everything else is kabuki. The democratic republic is long gone. And I STILL believe FDR and LBJ were good leaders and did good for the masses. Despite the Constitution’s bent on enabling the rich and the 1% from the get go.
That, sir, is an aged meme that really has no relevance anymore.
Sure the founding fuckers were land owners, rich, and owned slaves.
Sure they started a revolt and writ our founding documents.
To benefit themselves. But that starting point was huge.
Over time, with amendments, them documents were solid and of great benefit to the masses and we the people . . . . now, sadly, since Reagan and every president since, we the people have been more and more screwed, our constitutional rights been abridged and abrogated, and empire has been foisted upon our country and across the globe.
Corporate. Fascist. Empire.
Oh, yer posit about SCOTUS might matter, a few decades ago, but for now and the next decade or two, it’s completely useless given the political/economical/social system in the grips of the corporate fascists.
So, SCOTUS stuff is also meaningless, as is rhetoric.
*G*
Heh, shorter, MUCH shorter version of my reply to same.
*G*
Bingo.
Ok re: Occupy and such. Yes, great hopey there, with the technology and internet and such.
BUT!
But just watch as the access to the new thang is closed, priced out of the range of those using it for mass communication and displeasure with the system.
N watch Obama either cave, drag, or ignore the efforts to commandeer the internets . . . Soon.
Likely, sooner than his non assault caving on SS and medicare/medicaid, food stamps, or any other social services programs.
Access and control over mass communications is an essential and simple facet of control of the masses. Goebbels taught us that, HARD, in his time. Others before and after.
So, look to lose internet freedoms, if ya can’t pay for it. And if ya CAN pay for it, look to be renditioned by it, when ya do what we do here, at FDL/MyFDL.
I sure hope you understand the depth of ugly we are in, at times I don’t think yer fully aware of the grip of the corporate fascist police state.
On us all.
N ya worry me, that you and many others ignore this.
And don’t address this.
Did ya read about Aoki, the long term radical from the 60′s, who has now been outed as a FBI plant from the get go? With The Panthers?
I firmly believe there are millions of that kind of guy all over the internets, fishin out trouble makers, takin names, passing them on to central command.
Know what I mean?
*G*
MAryM, great thots and thanks.
Sadly, ALL efforts along the lines of growing Occupy or any other mass community movements are FULLY investigated, infiltrated, and dealt with accordingly, overtly or subtly.
So, MY thot on hopey for such, remains quite skeptical in those regards.
Good to see it, but Occupy has been snuffed . . . and plans are in place given the end of habeus, posse commitatus, and the FULL implementation of indefinite rendition and sequestering under the revised and new and improved Patriot Act that Obama either fully supported or ducked as Congress they’s selves passed it.
It’s ugly, ma’am, real, real ugly.
N for myself, it’s become a time of help myself and mine, do what I can in daily life to honor right and wrong, and hope I don’t fall victim to disease, violence, suppression, rendition and disappearing.
For we the people, these are bad times . . . I don’t see that changing soon.
Dude, that rhetoric came from the mouth of a 1%’er, one who sat by and let Glass Steagall be disappeared in his time. A president who had prosperity, all the while shutting down regulations, increasing secret warring, and likely wiretapping.
He lies! It’s rhetoric! He and they say it to get elected.
Where and when the phook are ya gonna address that, and get off the joy of wordsmithing as if it really MEANT anything?
IT MEANS NOTHING in terms of reality. Do you and others just not GET it?
Bingo, PHOOKING Bingo.
Yer killin me, what ever is in place you believe is gonna be life changing is FULLY under the control of the corporate fascist police state.
N the time is ripe, as history shows, in the darkest hour of desperation when the masses just go off and rampage. Not good revolutions, just plain ugly mass revolts and slaughter.
The French weren’t bad at it tho. I hardly doubt our nation will be anywhere that good, and what ever DOES rise up, will be mightily and greatly smitten down.
Nope, our way here will be the slow death of a thousand cuts, like USSR.
Watch as environ, economical, social pressures dissolve the US like USSR was dissolved.
N the bankers n 1% will be safe, and some of them will be warlords over territories like Putin is . . . that’s the model.
How soon? Maybe less than 20 years depending on economic hardship, increasing poverty, certainly mama nature, and of course, the bogeyman no one talks about, a misguided hot small war Israel starts and escalates fast.
Lots of potential for the end of our existence. Lots.
DRIFTY!?
YOU INVOKE DRIFTY?!?!?
Welcome, hoss, to the FDL fray. We needs ya.
Hope you’ll hang around and spout more.
Damn, I’m not alone.
*G*
No Dude, you’re the only one on the planet that gets it. :)
Of course I get that Clinton is, was, and always will be a corporate tool, a dedicated 1%er. It’s in the post in fact. What else that’s in the post is a request that rather than just hammer me for mentioning the evil Clinton name to get what I’m really saying. That there is something to learn from one aspect of Clinton’s rhetorical skill.
I think it’s possible to do that without turning into a 1%er pod person.
Let me put it this way. Suppose you were offered a free tennis lesson from John McEnroe. Would you turn it down because McEnroe is a jerk? Or would you pick up the tennis pointers, improve your game, and move on, knowing all along that McEnroe is a jerk?
I think you make a good point, but you also make it easy to ignore the disastrous effects of rampant consumerism. Mother nature isn’t the end all be all issue so go ahead and buy that 8 cylinder suburban to haul the five child family you’d like to have.
I suppose you’re right. Might as well maintain a positive attitude and do what you can. I think I’m just tired of the perpetual Jon Stewart rerun that progressive politics has become and that most progressives and liberals seem to have accepted as the daily political grind.
It’s tiring alright. I still think it’s worth the effort. But as I said – and meant – that’s something everybody has to decide for themselves.
Thank you for the reply. I agree that we’re faced with difficult times, and respect your decision that this is your time to focus on protecting your own life and loved ones. However, many people, including the younger people who will need to survive the bad times, and build something new for the future, believe that the work must continue despite the dangers. I respect them as well. They represent the future.
Actually, I strongly disagree. The bar you are setting, Phoenix Woman, is far too high. There are some who can do what you suggest, and make commitments for active involvement every week of every year, but I submit that is very hard for those whose every alternative energy (other than reading and absorbing here) is devoted to making ends meet, supervising family commitments, keeping and getting food for the table – energy absorbing activities that some may have a hard time envisioning.
I say, whatever commitments you can make, those are the important ones – even if it is only to get yourself to the polls and cast that vote. Good on you, keep the home fires burning.
I like your points very much, RFShunt; good diary. When I was participating Clinton’s night in the conversation here, I suggested folk ‘lash themselves to the mast’ because I knew he would sound persuasive and use ideas we all agree with. Your diary makes the same point.
While I agree with your diary, RFShunt, I would remind you that it is not Obama alone that has orchestrated this ‘believe what I say, not what I do.’ Indeed, though it may be under his influence or under the influence of those who influence him, the rot goes right through Congress, right through the judicial branch and all the way up to the Supremes.
I agree with your premise that the rhetoric is progressive. But “We” progressives should really consider thinking twice about voting for anyone with the label “Democrat.”
I am voting for Jill Stein. She has a platform that takes all the good sounding progressive ideas, and her vp nominee Cheri Honkala has done what bgrothus has done, walked the walk.
I think I have already answered that, RFShunt. I am puzzled that defeat is written into arguments that say we cannot change the status quo, when the answer lies in a platform which has the potential to be what it says it is, namely the Green platform.
It may very well be that all avenues are closed and what we get is what we don’t want. But surely the solution to your dilemma is to go elsewhere and leave the moribund duopoly behind? Yet, and I am equally puzzled by your approach, that seems to be not on the table.
So I am left wondering why you have posted this at all. Just to keep the Democratic Party alive? A lot of us are not interested in doing that.
This I like!
Larue, I find it enjoyable that both you and I are doing the same thing this morning, going through comments one by one, and I think that’s a credit to you. I also think, homing in on this particular one, that RFShunt would agree with you – it’s a matter of manipulation.
Now, wendydavis has a thread talking about commodity manipulation, and isn’t this just the same thing, only with ideas. In the former, it isn’t commodities (although you could make a case against corn and soybeans) that are worthless – that’s RFShunt’s point. So with the rhetoric, that in itself isn’t where the problem lies; the problem lies with those who exploit it, and they can only exploit it because we agree with it – not just progressives but the majority of Americans.
It is my feeling that as you express, that majority is tired, sick and tired, of the kabuki, of things important to them being deliberately ignored so the wealthy can get more so. We could say, ‘it’s done’ and party – but we have an opportunity to push that boulder up the hill one more time and I say ‘Up the hill with Jill!’ Take back the rhetoric and vote Green!
Now, that’s a party. :)
Well, I can’t quite believe this thread continues.
Juliana, I’ll try to respond to all your replies here. First the thing that seems to have given so many a case of agita.
I have no hidden agenda, no secret underlying motive. The post is meant to be taken at face value. Why did I post it? To point out 2 things.
Thing One: – When the democrats go all out to resonate with the people at large, they use the language and ideas of progressives.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT I’M SUGGESTING DEMOCRATS DESERVE OUR VOTE OR THAT DEMOCRATS SPEAK *FOR* US.
Let me say that one more time.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT I’M SUGGESTING DEMOCRATS DESERVE OUR VOTE OR THAT DEMOCRATS SPEAK *FOR* US.
Let me say that a *third* time
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT I’M SUGGESTING DEMOCRATS DESERVE OUR VOTE OR THAT DEMOCRATS SPEAK *FOR* US.
What it *does* mean is that this shows when Americans think of democracy, it’s the progressive view of democracy they have in mind. Why do I think that? Because when the Democrats pander, when they try to cloak themselves the most appealing way possible, it’s progressive ideas that they feel appeal the most.
I DO NOT THINK THIS MAKES THE DEMOCRATS HONORABLE OR WORTHY OF OUR PRAISE
Let me say that again
I DO NOT THINK THIS MAKES THE DEMOCRATS HONORABLE OR WORTHY OF OUR PRAISE
Thing Two.
It serves us well cast the idea aside that America is suspicious of progressive ideas. They are not, and when we are full-throated and forthright about our ideas and do not let ourselves be intimidated by the right-wing noise machine, we connect with people.
Just being able to connect isn’t enough, but nothing else can happen unless we do that. This is what i believe. Others feel differently on this thread, but that’s my take.
Me too. Well, not so much puzzled, but irritated. We have more going for us than defeatists think. That’s really at the heart of my blog post.
This post wasn’t about the election in November. It was about bigger-picture concerns. But if it’s any comfort to you, I’m personally leaning more and more towards the Greens. (Well, except for that secret agenda that a lot of commenters here are convinced I have :) )
I think you’re making an assumption that really does not apply to the present. Indeed, I’m not sure it ever applied at all. I heard a woman on NPR today sum it up perfectly when she said (I’m paraphrasing), “100 thousand people would gather on the mall in DC and politicians would listen. Given the choice to listen to 100 thousand people or the one person with 100 million dollars, politicians will always listen to the 100 million dollars. So the progressive message resonates with people. So what? It doesn’t matter. We live in an age where public opinion is irrelevant, particularly when both candidates are clones. So you want to know what you can do? Donate money. Start a PAC. That was the message on NPR today- politics are fun, yay, start a PAC. It’s not about public opinion; it’s about bundling dollar bills and hoping for the best.
Wish I had an edit function. Suffice it to say, the reality of modern American politics is that what people want has no bearing on policy. It’s naive to think that what people desire politically actually matters today. What matters is what political policies Americans can buy. American political policy and laws are monetary transactions and not well-reasoned consensus decisions.
I doubt you’ll see this, but I’ll respond anyway.
I agree with just about everything you’ve said. But I also don’t think it’s reason to give up, chuck it all. I think something can be done with that resonance with public opinion. Waiting for the day when current elected officials listen and do it for us won’t get us anywhere, you’re right. That’s the box we’re in – but there’s an outside to the box.
I hear you. My only intention is to inject some realism into thinking about politics. It’s good to think positively and encourage each other, but equally important to maintain a pragmatic attitude. The forces arrayed against progressive ideas are breathtakingly powerful.