Press reports have suggested that Administration officials are trying to make Democratic voters forget that the Administration promised to start drawing down troops from Afghanistan in July 2011 by “pivoting” to the “aspirational goal” that “most” U.S. “combat troops” will be withdrawn by 2014. The Administration still says it will withdraw some troops in July 2011, but press reports suggest that the Administration may try to make this a “symbolic” withdrawal, not the “serious drawdown” (as Speaker Pelosi put it) involving “a whole lot of people” (as Vice-President Biden put it) that Democrats were led to expect.
But if these press reports about Administration strategy are correct, Administration political strategists may have another think coming. Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg suggests that continued escalation of the war in Afghanistan would be likely to draw a primary challenge, the Christian Science Monitor reports:
As Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg was leaving a Monitor breakfast last week, he was asked about the possibility that President Obama might face a Democratic primary challenge in 2012.
Mr. Greenberg’s two-word answer: “Watch Afghanistan.”
As the Monitor notes, a recent Quinnipiac University poll found that 62 percent of Democrats say US troops should not be in Afghanistan.
Note that the same Quinnipiac poll found military families split on the war, “with 49 percent backing the US role and 47 percent saying the troops should come home.” That suggests significant dissent among the troops, because if every GI Jane and Joe is telling Mom and Dad that the war makes sense and the prospects are good, you wouldn’t expect half of military families to say that US troops shouldn’t be there. Dissenting troops tend to produce dissenting veterans. Dissenting veterans tend to produce dissenting veteran candidates for office.
If Stan Greenberg thinks a Democratic primary is a serious prospect if the escalation of the Afghanistan war continues, then that’s a claim that cannot be dismissed. Greenberg has been studying elections for a long time, and is paid top dollar to be right more often than most other people.
A key reason that some folks don’t take this threat very seriously yet is that when they think of a primary challenge, their first thought is: “who is the candidate?” It’s a natural thought. If they can’t think who the candidate is, then it doesn’t seem like a serious threat.
But this misses the fact that the potential pool of credible candidates is actually quite large, and if you look back to the past, few people could have predicted well in advance who might emerge as a credible candidate.
To be a credible candidate for President, at least one of the following three attributes is minimally sufficient, in addition to being legally eligible and having a plausible message: a) you have a huge pile of money b) you are famous and have a big base of public support or c) you can rely upon the support of a big organization.
Now, of course, most Americans don’t have any of these three attributes. Relative to the entire population, they are rare attributes. But relative to the fact that you only need one candidate for a primary challenge, the set of Americans who have at least one of these attributes is quite large.
How many Americans would have predicted in the summer of 1991 that a year later billionaire Ross Perot would be leading President George H. W. Bush and Governor Bill Clinton in national polls? How many Americans would have predicted in the spring of 1987 that Jesse Jackson would win seven Democratic primaries and four caucuses a year later, including Delaware, Michigan, and Vermont, leading the New York Times to call 1988 the “Year of Jackson“? How many Americans would have predicted in late November 1967 when Senator Eugene McCarthy announced his candidacy for President that he would nearly defeat incumbent President Johnson in the New Hampshire primary four months later, amidst rising Democratic discontent about Vietnam? How many Americans would have predicted in 1932, when FDR was first elected promising to balance the budget, that the threat of Huey Long’s presidential candidacy would help produce the New Deal, with Roosevelt adviser Raymond Moley reporting that FDR said he wanted to “steal Long’s thunder“?
This history suggests that if conditions are right, candidates are likely to emerge. Therefore, it may not be so easy to sweep President Obama’s July 2011 drawdown promise into the dustbin of history. A Democratic Presidential candidate has a big megaphone. If some Americans forget that President Obama promised to withdraw troops from Afghanistan in July 2011, a Democratic primary candidate is likely to remind them.
If you don’t want to see this scenario play out, tell President Obama to keep his promise for a “serious drawdown” of troops in 2011.
Robert Naiman is Policy Director at Just Foreign Policy.



60 Comments

Robert–Quite frankly, a few of us firepups want a primary challenger against Obama. Now, I don’t speak for all of them, nor do I don’t know if you’re a regular here at FDL, but we have already compiled a list and voted on our top picks to primary him.
We already know that that his continued bailouts of the banksters, (and now it seems no accountiblity against systematic mortgage fraud with these guys), Afghanistan, his “no getting the genie back into the bottle” stance on Campaign reform from Citizens United, his so-called bipartisianship compromise to let tax cuts for the wealthy remain, dropping the PO from Health Reform, etc…are all losing issues that the Dems will take an ass pounding again for in 2012.
We already know that if we stay on track with Obama we will lose. So what do we have to lose in primarying him? Nothing. We could/might possibly win. So, I can honestly say, “Let him stay in Afghanistan till 2014″ it’ll make it easier for us to kick his ass with real principled leadership in 2012. Staying with Obama (who I see as a moderate Republican and NOT a true FDR Democrat) is a recipe for disaster in 2012.
Obama’s aides continue to read the tea leaves wrong. (as they did on the jobs front, and continue to do with pretend bipartisianship with Republicans) The rightwing keeps pulling him further and further right, which is redefining the center. His center-right politics are not what the middle class define as ‘change-enough’ so he appears weak, naive, and shows no intestinal fortitude to actually fight for the middle class.
See:
http://my.firedoglake.com/themalcontent/2010/11/22/with-runoffs-complete-its-grayson-4th-hamsher-10th/
for further details.
There is also the possibility of us running a minor candidate, not someone who meets your big-name criteria. That GUARANTEES a race, and may provide further incentive for a major to run. Having choices is fun!
Fucking Thanksgiving. Thanks for the fucking endless fucking war.
Following the suggestion of Alexander Cockburn in The Nation (not always one of my favorite people, by the way), I nominate Russ Feingold. Do I hear a second?
“We have already compiled a list and voted on our top picks to primary him.”
I think I missed that thread. Could you re-post?
You sound like a reader of “Get Your War On” :)
Oops — it’s been posted. Never mind.
Sorry to clutter up the thread. Will pipe down…
A primary challenge for the Democratic Party nomination won’t be effective.
First, Obama will be the nominee.
Second, Americans who’ve been disappointed by Obama won’t have an alternative to vote for in the general. We should work on a finding a consensus candidate that most of us can vote for so that we can make a loud and clear statement about what we want from the Democratic Party. I want to be able to vote against Obama in 2012 and to have my voice heard.
Anybody still believe climate change isn’t due to atmospheric heating caused by greenhouse gases? here’s the forecast for tonight and tomorrow for San Antonio, Texas:
9:00pm 75℉
12:00am 72℉
3:00am 71℉
6:00am 71℉
9:00am 71℉
Noon 71℉
3:00pm 74℉
6:00pm 77℉
9:00pm 73℉
12:00am 71℉
Notice a trend? It’s not all that unusual to have days in the 70s in November in central Texas though this many in a row is kind of weird. What’s not normal is there is no appreciable cooling at night. That means warmer atmosphere, not warmer sun.
We have had the hottest summer on record here on the East Coast. The trees, plants, and birds have changed their appearance and migration patterns.
The war is a money cow. It uses public money to contractors both military, architectural, and others for private profits.
A sitting president waging an increasingly unpopular war doesn’t have to lose any primaries to be rendered ineffective by his party leaders. LBJ won New Hampshire, but by a close enough margin to an unknown Minnesota Senator in 1968 that he withdrew to seek peace in our time, full-time.
Obama was the people’s peace candidate in 2008. That movement, that energy, that desire is still out there among Democratic primary voters — and caucus participants. Do not underestimate our energy or our anger.
If Obama is still making — or ramping up — his illegal wars in more of the poorest countries on the planet, it could happen. I wouldn’t bet against a primary candidate.
Who doesn’t need to be successful to break the process wide open.
I’m going to have to write a diary to address this.
Yep. The military/industrial complex: Too Big to Fail™
Actually, it won’t just be the Afghanistan war, but the lengthy list of broken promises and outright lying from this president and his administration which would prompt a possible primary challenge.
Time and time again, I (and others like me) have to pinch ourselves and ask, “Wait — McCain didn’t win, right? Or was the last election between a center-right Republican and a far-right loony Republican?”
Two wars, not truly ended and no end in sight. Gitmo, still in operation, as well as other ‘black prisons’. No real end to renditions or ‘enhanced’ interrogations. No prosecutions for obvious war crimes. Giveaways to banksters and financial behemoths. Useless compromises to political foes who never cooperate at all. Too big to fail — left to continue raping our economy. Foreclosures. Unemployment. Healthcare ‘reform’ = giveaways to insurance companies and BigMed. Failure to follow through on transparency and an end to secrecy and warrantless spying. Outright opposition on LGBT civil rights. The Cat Food Commission (really — WTF?!) And yes — stuff like these TSA porno-gropes.
In 2008, I voted for Obama — enthusiastically and affirmatively — and we gave a great deal of money in donations. Now, all he has left is possibly a vote from me cast simply to be in opposition to a Republican candidate. And at this point, I can’t guarantee that much anymore.
Hence why international commercial industry was essentially organized by DARPA et al (see “Revolutionizing the
Commercial Marketplace” by Dr. James Richardson, link: http://www.darpa.mil/Docs/Commercial_Implications_200807171322093.pdf ) to provide Commercial-Off-The-Shelf (COTS), MIL-Spec and dual-use (for example, “GPS bringing COTS to the guidance business,” Jan 1, 1998, link: http://www.militaryaerospace.com/index/display/article-display/72549/articles/military-aerospace-electronics/volume-9/issue-1/features/special-report/gps-bringing-cots-to-the-guidance-busines.html ).
It pays off for commercials interests again in the recent India trip Teddy talks about (link: http://my.firedoglake.com/teddysanfran/2010/11/22/look-who-went-to-india-with-obama-the-other-deepak-chopra ):
“Obama agreed to lift curbs on the export of dual-use technology” (link: http://my.firedoglake.com/mzchief/2010/11/23/india-and-japan-finalize-a-comprehensive-economic-partnership-agreement-cepa )
That’s what I say. Afghanistan Schmafghanistan. O lost my support about 7 betrayals ago.
If the R’s run someone who is not TOTALLY horrible, like maybe Romney rather than Palin, they should be able to win 2012 in a walk. Obama singlehandedly resuscitated the Republican Party. What worthless ass.
I am with ya.
Think of all those Americans who sent him checks of 20-30 bucks…Obama turned his back on ‘em in favor of the Corporations…ungrateful ? yes he is big time.
Lets kick him out of the WH in 2012.He has already done more than enough damage to still be Prez beyond 2012.
If it’s a primary, they have to be a known Democrat. That immediately eliminates Bernie Sanders, for example.
They have to be capable of capturing media attention sufficient to create a base of support that is potentially a real threat to win. A combat veteran, even a reasonably well-known general, for example, would immediately capture media attention. That is not a suggestion but a statement of the sort of contrarian narrative that could generate buzz. In other words, they have to be considered a real political threat.
There are two strategies, depending on whether you want to change policy or actually capture the nomination and go on to win. The first, to change policy, is to announce early and drive your policy issues well enough to scare the incumbent. The second is to prepare early and announce early enough to potentially win Iowa.
A Democratic candidate cannot do today what Gene McCarthy did. The primary season is too long and the Democratic Party procedures are structured to avoid a repeat of that kind of challenge. Incumbent governors, mayors, county council members–the local leadership who turns out folks with their political organizations–control a lot of what happens with the nomination process, as we saw in 2008 when a potential division was avoided through negotiations for the votes of these folks, the “superdelegates”.
Another consideration is that the candidate no matter how much pressure is brought to bear can refuse to be drafted as a candidate.
And be careful what you wish for. A strong primary fight to move policy can weaken a candidate so as to elect a candidate who goes faster and more vigorously in the wrong direction. Arguably Gene McCarthy prepared the way for Richard Nixon. Which long-term has been a disastrous consequence for the country. And it is conceivable that LBJ would have ended the war by 1971 instead of having it drag out to 1975. If you argue that JFK would have withdrawn advisers before the 1964 elections, it is equally plausible that LBJ would have sought a way out once he had been re-elected and was focused on what history would say about him.
Amen.
LBJ had already changed his mind about the war and was close to negotiating a peace settlement when Nixon convinced South Vietnam to betray LBJ and wait until he was prez for a better deal.
Don’t forget Iraq. There is still a commitment there with the Iraqi government that must be fulfilled. If that commitment is fudged, it will allow the US military to stay indefinitely in large numbers.
The most likely way out is to hand the situation off from NATO to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which already has the necessary countries for agreement either as members or observers. But the risk there is being perceived as allowing China to have dominance in that part of the world, which would drive the neo-cons over the edge. Domestic politics is what will prevent that from happening even though that diplomatic approach is more likely to create stability in Afghanistan than continued military action. After all, Hamid Karzai is now on Iran’s payroll. (Way to go W. You have now empowered Iran in the affairs of two of its neighbors.)
The only thing that would make Afghanistan become background noise is the continuation of a horrible economy. In which case, Obama would be defeated easily. The only question is whether a Democrat could salvage the election and stave off a Republican return to power.
Absolutely!! I second the nomination of Russ Feingold as per Cockburn’s recommendation…if nothing else, perhaps it would wake President Obama out of his stupor. Someone who stands up for the little guy/gal and means it!
It seems to me that he must be planning on a one Term….surely he does not think we all have forgotten all the promises that have gone nowhere.
That’s a pretty decent list, although at least a few names on it aren’t clearly antiwar, at least not yet. It’s only worth running a candidate that’s both anti-Wall Street and antiwar.
And not just warm, but oddly humid. A really different kind of weather. The Nov Kennedy day was sparkling clear with sun and got very cold that evening and thru the weekend.
I feel you.Agent Obama is worse than Bush and that is saying something. I am so tired of watching this woefully incompetent totally dishonest man play president. I am at the point of hoping Issa truly has something to impeach him on. There is no way the democrats shld allow him to run for reelection without a primary challenge.
I said this on an early thread today (and was sniped at by another commenter), but I will repeat it. In my VHO, this list has very little credibility. With all due respect to themalcontent and the 90 or so pups who participated, there’s no way some of the people on the FDL list are qualified — or interested in the presidency. It’s like putting Santa or Gandhi on the list just because we admire them. We need to get real about our alternatives to Obama, and much as we love and admire them, Jane and Elizabeth Warren and Paul Krugman aren’t going to be “real” candidates. As a feel-good exercise this probably met its goals. As a realistic list of potential Obama opponents, not so much. Whom do I think qualifies? I dunno, I haven’t given it a lot of thought. I think we have to wait a bit and see who emerges with the interest and resources and fire in the belly to primary Obama, and then decide. Making a list from those on the left we admire is a waste of time. Again, JMHO.
To many of you:
We have chosen our 10, and are now in the process of working out our approach to them in the order listed. I see many names here who have apparently not been following our process. Two points of information:
(1) We don’t care if our nominee wins the nomination, in fact, we consider it unlikely. The goals are to build a progressive movement WITH TEETH. People howl and yowl all the time about how mad they are at Obama, and if he does it again, we won’t love him any more, this time we really mean it, yes, we’re really mad this time. Enough of this bullshit. Strike whatever blow is within our power, whether it brings him down or not.
People usually see 2 factors in making their determinations. Which is better — or worse — the Democrat or the Republican. We see a 3rd, which is best for the movement. Without building that, we are eternally playing lesser evil, and the lesser evil keeps getting eviller.
(2) The independent track is integral to our plan in the general election. Whether it is by running the same candidate as an independent, a separate candidate as an independent, as an individual, or seeking the nomination the Greens? All this has to be worked out. But having an independent choice (or choices) in November 2012 is going to happen.
For the evolution of my own thinking on this since September, see:
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/09/11/time-for-a-dump-obama-movement/
Time for a Dump Obama movement
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/09/22/dump-obama-%C2%A0-more-urgent-than-ever/
Dump Obama: more urgent than ever
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/09/dump-obama-working-today/
Dump Obama: working today
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/16/dump-obama-for-a-time-of-crisis/
Dump Obama: for a time of crisis
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/23/dump-obama-time-for-a-candidate/
Dump Obama: time for a candidate
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/30/dump-obama-not-for-wackos-only/
Dump Obama: not for wackos only
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/11/06/dump-obama-the-feeding-frenzy-begins/
Dump Obama: feeding frenzy begins
And you can follow the series of diaries by themalcontent, which have been the actual development of our process.
Cindy Sheehan, David Sirota, Jan Schakowsky, Joe Stiglitz, Jon Stewart, Leonard Peltier, Patrick Fitzgerald, Raul Grijalva, Robert Reich, and Valerie Plame.
Just some of the runners-up. apparently. REALLY, people? You think Cindy Sheehan, Jon Stewart, David Sirota and Valerie Plame might run against Obama?
Sorry, maybe this was a lot of fun, but probably a big waste of effort.
“If you don’t want to see this scenario play out..”
Why the fuck would anybody not want to see a primary challenge? Setting aside basics of democracy – what, incumbents now win by acclamation? – isn’t state secrets torture, detention, assassination, illegal bailouts and blatant, across the board violation of the rule of law and the oath to uphold and defend the constitution enough for NO-bama 2012? Even if he should accidentally “win” one of his four undeclared wars?
With this kind of tepid “opposition”, Palin would almost be a step up.
Question is: Who in the Democratic Party is going to have the large ones to challenge Obama?
Just a reminder: All of the effort and money spent on organizing and building a viable progressive movement and candidate to challenge Obama won’t produce a winner unless we also deal with the rigged voting machines.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I know it’s a serious problem that must be solved to have a realistic chance to win.
Yeah, Feingold! Hell, I’d go for Harkin too, even though he’s in seat.
I continue to think O may not run given the level of discontent with him. And that will get only worst after the lame duck session and his likely inability to pass middle class only tax cuts, DADT and unemployment compensation. O I know he doesn’t vote for those things, but he does. He can use the bully pulpit to demand it.
Yeah, feel good but nothing substantive. But who knows maybe one of them can catch on. I like Santa myself.
I think it is premature. I mean the whole game changes if we get dragged into a war with N Korea or Iran or any number of events. Doesn’t hurt to dream, I suppose.
Someone said that this is the warmest year on record for the entire world. I don’t know how they would know that, but it sure is unusual around here.
Thank you for this excellent diary.
If you don’t want to see this scenario play out,…
Oh but I do..
It was actually the already weakened LBJ who paved the way for Richard Nixon, not backbencher Gene McCarthy who merely certified Johnson’s lack of party support. But for his disastrous move in escalating in 1965, and stupidly stubborn adherence to an increasingly calamitous quagmire, we would have had no more Nixon to kick around either in ’68 or probably ever. Johnson brought the party to disaster and made inevitable an intraparty challenge. That’s how angry the liberal left was at LBJ.
As for the hypothetical on Johnson being re-elected, he was so psychologically unstable, it’s impossible to say what he would have done in VN in that highly improbable political circumstance. Recall that he was the type to do just the opposite of what his most hated enemies — e.g. RFK — wanted him to do. Fact is, it’s extremely unlikely he would have been re-elected in ’68 in the absence of an announced political settlement and the beginning of withdrawal of troops — an almost impossible scenario to contemplate given his hawkish cold warrior mindset and stubborn Texan-Alamo nature.
(re JFK withdrawing advisers “before the 1964 elections”: he actually planned the bulk of withdrawals to occur after. Knew the political risk of turning ’64 into another red-baiting campaign about Who Let the Commies Win in VN? He discussed this privately in the WH with antiwar Maj Leader Mansfield, who agreed with his thinking)
Disagree slightly. LBJ’s “Wise Men” advisers, previously gung-ho about Johnson’s policy, suddenly changed course in March 1968 and advised him the war would be unwinnable even with an additional 200k troops. But I’m not sure a peace settlement under Johnson was close, nor am I convinced he himself had truly stopped believing in his policy.
Could be that the peace talks just begun in early ’68 were something Johnson merely found politically beneficial to have on hand as show for his party’s liberals as the presidential election season got underway and as he anticipated getting another nomination, with the party antiwar liberals the only major stumbling block.
Teddy, LBJ didn’t withdraw because of McC’s strong 2d place finish in NH, nor am I at all convinced with the line, sounding like something written by a Johnson loyalist found on a plaque on a wall in the LBJ Library, that he “withdrew to seek peace in our time, full-time.” (actually that sounds like an only slightly re-worked version of what he said in his 3-31-68 withdrawal speech, which of course was self-serving and intended to divert attention from the real, personal-political reason)
LBJ withdrew because RFK had suddenly entered the race. Johnson feared McCarthy’s challenge about as much as Obama would fear Dennis Kucinich making a run in 2012. He did fear Kennedy. And for good reason — he knew RFK’s power to appeal to a broad swath of the party and the general electorate. Johnson withdrew fearing he’d lose head to head to RFK, and not, ferchrissakes, that some backbencher one-issue senator had placed a good second in a small NE state.
Well, I might vote for Valerie Plame …
Or Elizabeth Kucinich, if only …
A fascinating discussion. I read it all. First, to archiebird, no, I was not aware of the state of the discussion here; have been away from FDL for a while and came back recently. To all who were negatively aroused by “If you don’t want to see this scenario play out…” because they *do* want to see this scenario play out: well, me too, actually, and I hesitated a moment before writing that. But my chief objectives at the moment are a) to try to pressure Obama not to renege on the drawdown and b) to convince people that the idea of a primary is a plausible one that we should be talking about: people who have already converted to b) were not in my sights. :)
Robert–So…..are you in? One of our next steps is to get as many people from the blogosphere on board to help get this thing off the ground. Your website and followers may be helpful in gaining supporters.
Primary challenge???
By mid-2012, there will be a posse of senior democrats going over to the white house to beg this totally unprincipled political hack to pass on a second term, so they can have a chance to hold on to their jobs. I think the pressure will be unbearable. He’ll do it, and it will be best thing he’s done for the country since he came in office.
“…who sent him checks of $20-$30 bucks.”
That would be me, three times.
Can I take this rancid, useless, president somewhere to get a refund?
Anyone who believes that he’ll run again needs to explain where the political capital to do it will come from.
The parallels with LBJ, in his only elected term in office, are undeniable.
Obama is hemmorhaging clout like he had a severed femoral artery.
How is he going to stop doing it?
Let’s ask the question:
If his poll numbers get down into the 30′s, will Hillary bail out of State to run against him?
Brodie, all those things contributed to LBJ’s “graceful” exit.
As the enabler of the huge increase in our casualties there, and knowing that there was not going to be a “victory” there. Period. He fell on his political sword.
I expect, and my 2c, will demand that Barack Obama do the same thing, before he drags us completely over the cliff in 2012.
And I will say again, ms molly – the list was not a waste of time, far from it! It doesn’t matter if the final candidate to primary Obama is someone completely other from the person chosen by that straw poll – we put it out there, thanks to the folk involved, and even if it is only a fleck of a snowflake in the final snowball, heck, we did it!
I put forward My Senator Tom Udall, and he didn’t get any votes to speak of but his name is out there now in that strange ether for consideration, which was given and the research too on every candidate) with respect. Don’t know if it is connected, but this morning he emailed me for my opinion on the crazy TSA regulations – and I gave it and requested to be on his mailing list.
We are getting involved. And I will further say that all bets are off on whether a primary is doable, because we’re in the age of the internet now – hasn’t been tried with all these resources at our command so I would say we have a great shot at doing it.
(Sure, a police state can arise and cut us off, but we’ve already made huge strides and they can’t cut that off. So, make the most of it while we have it!)
I repeat, tarheel Dem, you are playing by the old rules. The powers that be made this a new game entirely with restrictions on the ordinary citizen that we have never seen before. You know what happens when an wild horse gets loaded down with the paraphenalia of the cowboy. You get on, he bucks. They have loaded us down!
That combined with the matter of all the new connections of the internet era – I only have a few, but I am as up to date as anyone, old geezer that I am, on the pros and contras (mainly the latter) of the war in Afghanistan (thank you, David) the oil disaster in the Gulf, the ongoing Grope Gate scenario unfolding, the mortgage scam perpetrated on us by Wall Street, healthcare – you name it!
Now, that’s a whole new ball of wax. You can’t say things will go as they did in past election struggles. We’re loaded down, but if we want to we can understand what is happening to us, and even if we don’t understand, we can buck!
Actually, tan, the triggering event, the immediate proximate cause, was RFK’s entry, not McC or the war. He had the just-started Paris peace talks to cover his left flank manageably enough, he thought, but an opponent like RFK with his larger range of liberal issues and greater personal appeal, that was something Johnson feared. So he got out — but intending it only to be temporary, until roughly the convention when he would step back in and grab the nom after RFK and HHH and McC all beat each other up and split delegates. Dr King presciently predicted this scenario at the time of LBJ’s announcement.
As to Obama today vs LBJ: O has a few advantages.
1) Likable personality, not nearly as deeply detested by the liberals as LBJ was in his day over the war.
2) War situation: Afghan, unpopular as it’s becoming, doesn’t nearly cause the upwelling of frustration and anger at the president as LBJ’s War did. Plus the casualty count — hundreds of US dead each wk in VN made Nam a huge story every day; only single digits US dead in Afghan. Still largely a low-level war in the minds of most here.
3) O’s credibility: mostly he isn’t perceived as a Big Liar, as Lyndon was. O is viewed as being wrong, being naive, being too trusting of the GOP oppo, but ultimately also is seen as someone who will hear us out. Johnson was perceived as shutting himself off completely from the liberals, and they rightly perceived that he hated them. They returned the hate in kind and whatever ties had previously existed were irrevocably broken.
O’s big problem of course is the still stubbornly sluggish economic recovery, and the growing perception he’s been too concerned about coddling Wall St at the expense of Main St.
As an ambitious pol, O can be expected to seek re-elect, and I wouldn’t go betting the house right now against a successful effort. A year from now, however, still sitting around 9.6% unemployment, and we’ll likely see a Dem challenger or 3d party effort from the populist lib/center-left.
They can’t rig an overwhelming vote, without becoming transparent.
I’m betting on overwhelming. It would have been for Bobby Kennedy for sure. He had everything going for him.
And the thing is, forgive me for sounding crude, but we’re wise to assassinations now, just as we became wise after 9/11, while it was ongoing in fact. There will be not just one challenger but many who will be other options. We don’t have a Bobby Kennedy but we do have potential Bobby Kennedys, quite a number of them. Just because they are not constantly in the mainstream media eye doesn’t mean they are invisible. We’ve been voting (and refusing to vote) against the mainstream media stuff for three elections now.
I for one am never voting for Obama again; he’s drenched in blood to me. So this Afghanistan business matters. It’s why I thought Cindy Sheehan was an excellent candidate, still do. Our president is our flag, and that would be some flag! But I’m happy to see the work we’ve done so far continue to unfold however it goes.
Hillary is part of the problem. Don’t get us started.
Extremely unlikely. Not unless, a year, year and a half from now, the economy still awful, O still perceived as spending too much energy catering to Wall St and futilely seeking GOP votes that aren’t there, then, if you begin to see a parade of major A-A leaders step up to the mics and say clearly, Maybe it’s time to thank this president for his efforts but we obviously need new leadership, perhaps from the Sec’y of State — then you might have a Hillary scenario.
Otherwise, she knows even if she somehow wrested the nom away from the incumbent — mighty hard to do historically — it won’t be worth a damn if she’s ticked off the Dem A-A wing by ousting an historic president when he still enjoyed significant support from them. But if their current support seriously erodes in the coming year …
“Not unless, a year, year and a half from now, the economy still awful, O still perceived as spending too much energy catering to Wall St and futilely seeking GOP votes that aren’t there.”
Not unless? Gee, is that possible?
Screw “Primary Challenge” lets call it “Primary Ultimatum”.
“You run the despicable lying Obomination again, we will destroy the Democratic Kabuki Party”.
Greenberg seems to be saying “Look! Look over there!” The left is already gone, pick any left politician in the country, they could well be considering a run at him. Big gonads of either persuasion required, unfortunately rare in the dem party.
Fuck, I’d vote for Nader at this point.