[This is the 2nd in the series Religion and Science: A Beautiful Friendship]
My parents were not church-goers, but they thought their children should be exposed to the religious perspective. So, until we graduated from eighth grade, they made my brothers and me attend a Presbyterian Sunday School.
When I asked my Sunday School teacher how Jesus could turn a few fish and a little bread into enough food to feed a crowd, she explained it as a miracle. She gave the same answer about walking on water, raising Lazarus, and coming back from the dead. When I pressed her on the biblical account of creation—“He did all that in six days?”—she reread Genesis to the class.
My other school, a public school in Chatham, New Jersey, was located in the shadow of Bell Laboratories, where my father worked. Bell Labs was then one of the top scientific research labs in the world.
In third grade we studied the solar system. Our textbook had a diagram of Copernicus’s heliocentric model showing the planets revolving around the sun in circles. A table gave the distance of each planet from the sun in miles and its period of revolution in days: 365 for the earth, 225 for Venus, just 88 for Mercury, and so on, all the way out to Pluto. Printed alongside each planet’s orbit was its average speed in miles per hour as it circled the sun.
It was just then that we were studying circles in arithmetic. The lesson for the week was that the circumference of a circle C = 2πR, where R is the circle’s radius and π is a universal constant approximately equal to 3.14. A closeted nerd in the days before we had our own identity group, I decided to verify the speed shown for the orbiting earth using this formula. The computation was simple enough—just form the product 2πR and divide by the time—one year—that it took the Earth to complete one revolution.
But something was wrong. My result did not agree with the Earth’s speed in the book. It was not even close. So I tried the same calculation for Venus and Mercury. No agreement with those either. I did the other six planets. Not one of my calculations agreed with the numbers in the book. Frustrated, I asked my father for help. He checked my figures, examined the textbook, and announced the unthinkable: the book was wrong. I had thought books couldn’t be wrong. We all had.
The next day I showed the error to my teacher, Mrs. Bahoosian. It made her nervous. She drew me aside and spoke in a hushed voice. I think she worried that if word got out it might cast doubt on the entire educational enterprise among my peers. But she mollified me by promising to write the publishing company.
Months later she reported that the publisher was going to change the numbers in the next edition. She never told the class. I remember checking a year later and sure enough the mistakes had been corrected.
Catching that mistake broke the spell of the printed word, and a new notion of truth took hold of me: the truth is not necessarily what some authority says it is, but rather what can be proven.
But, if so, where did that leave the truths taught in my Sunday School? Some of what was taught there contradicted our science lessons. It seemed my two schools stood for two incompatible worlds: science and religion.
People hadn’t always had to face this dilemma. For millennia, science and religion were not regarded as distinct. Religion offered explanations of life and the cosmos, and for a long time there was scant evidence to contradict them.
However, bit by bit, evidence contradicting the religious explanations was gathered and, by the seventeenth century, battle lines were forming. A more evidence-based way of pursuing truth was taking shape within the religious consensus, and sometimes the findings of those who insisted on seeing for themselves threatened the doctrine espoused by church leaders.
Science cited facts, made predictions, and tolerated dissent. In contrast, religion invoked scripture, urged faith, and required conformity. Science said, “Doubt me.” Religion said, “Trust me.”
As a child, I couldn’t make peace between my Sunday School and my grade school, so I took the easy way out. I dismissed religion as unfounded and resolved to ignore it. With hardly a backward glance, I set my sights on a career in math and physics where I was encouraged to question authority.
But I did not go away empty-handed. On the contrary, I took with me a pair of questions that, in time, would shape my life’s work. Those questions are posed in the next post; my answers later, once some misconceptions about science and religion have been cleared up.
[All twenty posts in this series have now been collected into a free eBook which can be downloaded at Religion and Science: A Beautiful Friendship? Thank you for your interest in this series.]



38 Comments

Somehow, skipping Sunday School didn’t seem like it was actually a bad thing, as skipping real school would have been. I never skipped real school.
I will take issue with your statement ” For millennia, science and religion were not regarded as distinct.” The very suggestion that some things in religion are in the category of miracle points to the falsity of this statement. Miracle is in no way scientific. And if you confine yourself to the Book of Genesis, you will already see you are going far beyond the realm of science because the events being narrated there are not, even in the most primitive terms, scientific. At the very least, as a scientist one might ask, even then, who was around to take note of these proceedings?
Doestoievski has his least sympathetic character in “The Brothers Karamazov” listen to his foster father Grigorii as a young boy, reading the first chapters of Genesis. When the old man comes to the second lesson, a grin appears on the young child’s face:
“…’What is it?’ asked Grigorii, looking at him sternly from under his spectacles.
‘Nothing, sir. The Lord God created light on the first day, and the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day. Where did the light shine from on the first day?’
Grigory was dumfounded. The boy looked derisively at his teacher; there was even something supercilious about his look. Grigory could not help himself. ‘I’ll show you where!’ he shouted, and gave his pupil a violent blow on the cheek…”
In a seminar long ago we discussed this passage, and I found it beautiful, for there was the answer to the question – Grigorii’s slap; the human face. That was the light on the first day, the light of humanity already present in the Godhead which already is speaking words with a voice and being heard. It’s tremendous – but it’s not scientific! And Hebrew sages down the ages have addressed these scriptures in exactly this way, teasing out multiple meanings, which a scientific treatise does not have.
Different as chalk and cheese, and understood that way from the getgo. And I am sure other religious scriptures are the same way. They never were intended as science, but as super – natural explanations, explanations of a spiritual nature. Always.
I perceive this non-distinction to be talking about before the distinction between Astronomy and Astrology, or between History and Historical Legend; like myths used to explain things (as opposed to repeatable experiments).
Yes, that’s what I mean. Nice analogies.
“A more evidence-based way of pursuing truth was taking shape within the religious consensus…” This more nonsensical gibberish from your previous post.
“Doestoievski has his least sympathetic character in “The Brothers Karamazov” listen to his foster father Grigorii as a young boy, reading the first chapters of Genesis. When the old man comes to the second lesson, a grin appears on the young child’s face:
“…’What is it?’ asked Grigorii, looking at him sternly from under his spectacles.
‘Nothing, sir. The Lord God created light on the first day, and the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day. Where did the light shine from on the first day?’ ”
LOL – your story proves what Russian author Fyodor Dostoyevsky was trying to disprove – the correctness, in terms of science, of much of the Bible. Current science says it was 300 million years after the big bang – that flash of light – before sun, moon and stars appeared.
Seems it is as hard to be an atheist as it is to be a Christian.
But as a Christian I have to agree that “day” as a unit of measurement at the time of creation is not defined – but then that fact is also what today’s science says – we needed to get our sun and the Earth created to get “day”.
But I am more into greater truth and am not trying or expecting to find all of science verify every word of the Bible – especially since Bill Clinton rightly pointed out the meaning of words is complicated – “it depends on what the meaning of is is”.
:-)
There is the Biblical quote that one day of the Lord is like 1,000 years of man. But of course that would have us accepting that good old 4004 BC date.
Most figures in the history of science were devout, many of them were ordained. Back when life consisted of gathering enough food to feed your family and still satisfy the local robber baron posing as protector, only the church had the resources to do something as seemingly irrelevant and useless as scientific research and only the clergy really had the free time to dedicate their lives to their work. I don’t look back on this time nostalgically. I find it just another case of the church controlling every single facet of life in those times. The church, by controlling the science and the scientists could carefully screen publications and having been given full authority in most societies, they had the power to severely punish those who embarrassed the church. Even research that the church at first approved of became “heresy” when some trouble makers way up there in the church hierarchy had a personal grudge with the researcher in question. That system has arguably held us back for centuries and the last thing I want to do is to put them in that position again. Think it won’t happen again? Ask Galileo. Don;t get me wrong, the church’s research and affiliated scientists made some enormous contributions to mankind. But that was secondary or even tertiary and almost certainly didn’t enter into the original equation. They didn’t do it for the sake humanity, they did it to maintain control of populations and noblemen. They did it for their own sakes.
Wasn’t Copernicus a priest, or if not actually a priest, something lower in the Church hierarchy? I think he had a mistress, so he was probably barred from the priesthood. He kept his epochal discovery to himself till near the end of his life because he knew it would rile his superiors.
Nikolaus Copernicus was some kind of Catholic cleric, though I don’t think he was a Priest. He studied canon law and earned a PhD in it, (which was probably quite handy for somebody challenging the current church approved models), but as you pointed out, he didn’t unveil his seminal work until he published “De revolutionibus orbium coelestium”, (“On the revolutions of heavenly spheres”), just prior to his death in 1543. Ironically it was another clergyman, Tiedemann Giese, bishop of Kulm, who delivered the manuscript to the printer in Nuremberg.
Know what else is cool about the solar system? It was only less than a year ago that Neptune finally completed it’s first full orbit since it’s discovery!
Now what does “like” mean?
In any case the church supports science because it is all about truth – it does not fear truth in any way.
Indeed the Vatican numbers among its direct advisers on truth in science our friend the atheist Hawkings. A Jesuit education has for hundreds of years been a check mark for someone who knows the science of his day very well and can add to it.
I am wondering where this poster is going with his series – it is developing rather slowly.
Well, I am looking forward to the next post, but I was also raised Presbyterian, and my understanding always has been that much of the Bible never was meant to be taken literally.
Some people may say that I am on the fast track to Hell for saying, for example, that the resurrection concept is inspiring, important…and metaphorical.
I am not saying, papau, that there are not similarities between the explanation that science gives and the vision of Biblical authors – of course there must be, since for a believer truth is truth. I am saying that there are layers of meaning in a Biblical text which are far different from the scientific explanation.
Dostoievski would be quite happy with the big bang theory, as am I. And I don’t want to put words into his mouth – my explanation was my explanation and I’d like to think it was his as well. Because it goes with his reverence for John the Evangelist, who as you will remember begins his gospel with a mighty analogy to the first verses of Genesis, “In the beginning was the Word.” So, I think the human connection to the divine would be more important in religious terms than any conjunction with scientific theory, but that’s just my personal opinion.
That’s the western church, Margaret. Rome. There were other Christians, and I’m not saying they were perfect – they weren’t. But they took a different path.
Keep ‘em coming, Robert.
You’ve got me intrigued.
Nice insight for a third grader.
Poor Mrs. Bahoosian probably never forgot you.
I wonder how many times she taught that part of the book without recognizing the problem until you came along?
Forgot to say, recommended.
Thanks.
Of course I mentioned the western church. The author mentioned Copernicus and that he, (the author), had attended Presbyterian Sunday School. I though it would be appropriate to focus on the western church because that’s what this post is focused on and if I’d done a comparative study of other world religions, (or even just other branches of Christianity), it would have been a diary unto itself.
Lutheran Rationalists note that Genesis supports both the Big Bang and Evolution.
We reconnected long after she had retired, and yes, she remembered the incident. I think that, for both of us, it was a revelatory moment. One that left an ineradicable residue of skepticism toward the printed word. Mrs. Bahoosian, bless her soul, also read aloud to the class one of the best children’s books ever: “Sharp Ears, the Baby Whale” by John Beaty.
That about says it all.
It’s a good book dontcha know.
THAT, certainly is a book worth questioning, although I’d rather not give it any more attention than it already has stolen from humanity.
Robert, would you please put up a link to Part 1 – I missed it. Thanks
Never mind – found it.
I wonder if you are serious or this is sarcasm:
I lean toward sarcasm, because all authoritarians fear truth – however it is also what a devout catholic would assert.
As I discovered when I pointed out the historical reason for celibacy in the Roman Church — to prevent claims on church property by the children of the clergy — to a devout Irish catholic. The result was somewhat incendiary, and I’m sure I shall burn in hell (again).
I beg to pick:
There are no absolutes in science. In faith yes, until bloodily abandoned.
I’m just now tapping into this book, in large part because of this diary / thread, for my “signs” have beckoned me in this direction. You can’t measure that, yet my soul is singing in a way I cannot describe, which I would have a hard time putting that experience into words. Anyways, here is a little love and the scribd link to Hamlet’s Mill, written by Giorgio de Santillana, Professor of the History and Philosophy of Science MIT and Hertha von Dechend, German professor….check out the wiki for a little run down, but I would imagine it’s right down this alley we’re all running down with knives a blazin’.
On another side note, and yes Margaret I can hear you, but I’m not trying to steer any thread, just adding a reply, I would rather go with the ancient elders and their knowledge versus our society today and its “materialistic science.” Which to me drains out all mysticism of life and determined to define the world as meaningless as THEY experience it, through yes, their fact finding….
which quoting John Anthony West, ” scientific objectivity is a delusion. There is no such thing. The gathering of data may be relatively ‘objective’ (though deciding which data to gather is not.) Thereafter everything is a matter of interpretation; of perspective. Everything is interpretation, perspective, which in turn depends upon stated or more often implicit, even unrecognized premises (what philosopher / mathematician Alfred North Whitehead called ‘the diffused metaphysical concepts of our epoch’). Progress itself is a matter of perspective: the maggot sees its world as a boundless field of seething, purposeful activity. The falcon flying above just sees a dead horse.
Oh ya and the whole science community is run by the people that dish out money, fund the projects….so I wouldn’t put too much of my belief behind monied interests, like I said, I’m leaning more toward the ancient Egyptians and what they were tapping into. Most ancient cultures had amazing knowledge of the stars…..what do we have? Hell on Earth with a forecast of love and enlightenment arising.
rec’d.
No personal attacks on MyFDL.
Actually, IMO, they are intended to indoctrinate and make dependent the worshippers who fill the tills and generate the gold lacing in the churches. Along with that revenue stream, churches quickly became more powerful than kings.
Religion, is as smoke and mirrors strewn as a means of control and power over the masses as is the corporate fascist entities of our day who control and hold power over all our systems of existence. Governance, legal, military, food production, social services, e tc.
But in general, I concur fully with you.
;-)
Good read Robert, interesting just to read it regardless where I might quibble about little things, so thanks for taking the time to share it all.
Rcc’d.
Yep, they used to be the corporate fascist 1% in their times.
They are no different now in intent, just of lessor importance in the big picture . . .
That’s so kewl I had to wiki it . . . yup, periodical rotation roughly 165 years . . . I never would have known this . . . huh, I used to know all the period of rotations of the nine . . . LeSigh.
Kewl factoid!
*G*
I think the post is focussing on religion in a larger sense than just western Christianity. I was making an observation from that viewpoint, and indeed I stand corrected if the focus doesn’t include many faiths. In fact, I stand corrected for trying to present a different view of Christianity here. Apologies to all; if you want to know more there are plenty of internet sites which explain Eastern Christian theology better than I can. It is as old as Western Christian theology, since they parted company back when issues of faith intermingled with issues of territorial expansion.
I too was raised somewhat Presbyterian, so I identify with the author and will continue to read. I appreciate the positive attitude.
Well, they certainly fear the truth THEY don’t create and distribute (see Rove, et al).
*G*
I will simply say it doesn’t have to be that way, Larue. Just as politics doesn’t have to be what it has become. I have a chapel in which I sleep, not because I intended that, but because due to the straightened circumstances in which many of us find ourselves these days, my son has my former bedroom.
I have to say it’s a step up for me. Never slept so well in my entire life.
Thanks for your openness, L-C. Quibbles not unwelcome. I just hope you’ll hang in there long enough on the way up to see the view from the summit.
http://my.firedoglake.com/robertwfuller/2012/06/16/religion-and-science-a-beautiful-friendship-part-1/
Keep ‘em coming Robert. Still looking forward to the part where you explain religion’s contribution to knowledge.
Next post introduces the model-building framework. After some examples from science, then some from religion highlighting its early signal contribution to knowledge. (Hint: Religion introduced the meta-idea that the world might be comprehensible after all! WHEW! That’s hugely important.It set us on the path of trying to understand things better, and lo and behold, we finally are though even the scientists who come up with these accurate models are puzzled at the “unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics” in understanding nature. But, hey, it works!) The opposite of fundamentalism is not relativism, it’s model building. Coming soon to FDL.