The US jobless rate just reached 8.1 percent, the highest in 24 years. Republican economist Martin Feldstein, the guy the Republicans quoted during the stimulus bill debate, has joined the chorus of those calling for another large stimulus bill.
Meanwhile, determined to be seen as both irrelevant and irresponsible, Senate Republicans held up the Ominibus Budget Bill yesterday because . . . it had too much spending for near-term projects.
Feldstein can read the numbers, and they’re all bad; today’s jobs report says things are getting worse. Feldstein notes Americans have just suffered a $12 trillion loss of wealth, so "the US economy faces a US$750 billion shortfall of demand." He then adds:
Although the recently enacted two-year stimulus package includes a total of US$800 billion of tax reductions and increased government spending, it would be wrong to think that this will add anything close to US$400 billion a year to GDP in each of the next two years. Most of the tax reductions will be saved by households, rather than used to finance additional spending.
Moreover, a substantial part of the spending will be spread over the following decade. And some of the government spending in the stimulus package will replace other outlays that would have occurred anyway. An optimistic estimate of the direct increase in annual demand from the stimulus package is about US$300 billion in each of the next two years.
The stimulus package would thus fill less than half of the hole in GDP caused by the decline in household wealth and housing construction, with the remaining demand shortfall of US$450 billion in each of the next two years causing serious second-round effects. As demand falls, businesses will reduce production, leading to lower employment and incomes, which in turn will lead to further cuts in consumer spending.
But Senate Republicans aren’t listening to their own experts. They’re focused on 2 percent of the Budget Bill, trying to paint a picture that specific projects Congress asked for, things that can be done this year, are inherently wasteful. But their real targets are increases like this:
The big increases — among them a 21 percent boost for a popular program that feeds infants and poor women and a 10 percent hike for housing vouchers for the poor — represent a clear win for Democrats who spent most of the past decade battling with President George W. Bush over money for domestic programs.
Feldstein agrees the spending should be targeted for stimulative effect:
A second fiscal stimulus package is therefore likely. However, it will need to be much better targeted at increasing demand in order to avoid adding more to the national debt than the rise in domestic spending. Similarly, the tax changes in such a stimulus package should provide incentives to increase spending by households and businesses.
Republicans could start climbing out their self-imposed dungeon by offering to forego their own member’s "wasteful spending" and substitute more effective spending or tax "incentives to increase spending" if the Democrats would meet them half way. But they’d rather obstruct the whole process and express mock outrage on Fox News.
Update: Per NYT coverage of the budget bill vote: It seems Dems were one vote short of 60. As commenter Kassandra notes below, "we could have used Franken yesterday." But we also lost Evan Bayh for the wrong reasons, and Russ Feingold, because he never votes for ominibus bills with lots of earmarks. And we lost two [Dem]Senators [Mendendez and Nelson] because the bill relaxes, in a small way, restrictions on visits to Cuba — so the economy is tanking, and these guys are still stuck in 1961 at the Bay of Pigs.
[Correction: the two Senators voting against because of Cuba were Menendez (NJ) and Nelson (Fla). More details at TPM.]
(h/t Economist’s View)



50 Comments




how sad is it that economic expert used by republicans is making more sense on the economy than the obama economic team?
the obama economic team, and not the republicans, seems to me our most urgent impediment to decent economic policy.
The Republicans are just continuing their bosses attack on America. funny I thought this vote was going to be a simple majority. we need Franken in there yesterday
Krugman appears to agree:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03……html?_r=1
Yes, Franken would help. But we also lost the Evan Bayh for the wrong reasons, and Feingold, because he never votes for ominibus bills with lots of earmarks. And we lost two Florida Senators because they the bill relaxes, in a small way, restrictions on visits to Cuba — so the economy is tanking, and these guys are still stuck in 1961 at the Bay of Pigs.
Great thanks to my guy, Bill “Lost In Space” Nelson. Thanks a fucking lot.
If the GOPers are on board for another Stimulus bill are there any rumors about what this bill will look like? Please no more tax cuts.
I agree with you the GOP holding up a bill when we are already talking another stimulus bill is a joke.
People need jobs to keep their homes Fuck the Federal Budget. Why do only the bankers get cash? Food and Shelter Survival are the first step in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs these needs must be met first before you try and fulfill other needs.
Or in other words the GOP wrecked the economy so much that if its a choice between a good job working for the Stimulus or Conservative Principles the Job will win.
Well, Feldstein is correct about the stimulus. I have been saying for a while now that it was half the size it should have been and created, because it was so poorly structured, at best only about one third of the jobs it needed to. However, I think that Feldstein opposes bank nationalization. And I am unsure how he views the mortgage issue but I doubt that he is pro-homeowner (but this last is just a guess because I have not heard him talk about this specifically).
In any case, we are seeing a continuation of the Bush years, where the Republicans were batshit crazy and the Democrats could be counted on to be ineffective and do less than was needed.
Great name for Nelson. Gave me a laugh.
Cuba the GOP wants a fight on Cuba to win Florida when the Florida real estate market has gone from among the most expensive to among the biggest drop?
How many people invested everything in Florida real estate how many GOP voters?
Cuba who cares Castro is about to die and people are loosing their homes.
It is pretty clear that virtually none of our elites Republican or Democratic have a clue. So we can expect the next stimulus to be a disaster as well. We will know that there is hope when the people they start highlighting are the likes of Krugman, Stiglitz, Baker, Galbraith, and Roubini.
We need to start pushing our ideas for the next stimulus plan then I agree Dem, GOP no clue.
My bold So 2% of the budget bill is pork I’m guessing thats leaner meat than McCain eats.
What was the pork percentage on the Bush budgets McCain voted on?
To put the $7 billion in supposedly wasteful earmarks in perspective, recall that the Bush Pentagon literally lost about $9 billions in weapons in Iraq the first year — but not a peep from the Repubs et al.
We need our guys on the MSM and on the Lake if we can get them selling a Lefty Plan for Stimulus.
No more tax cuts more jobs in useful green projects or roads sewers etc things that will pay for themselves.
Not things like military spending which leads to more war and more expense.
I want to here what else they woulds spend on and what else would they do to fix the economy.
Know what they found out from tests on Nelson when he was in space? That’s it’s actually possible for a person to have a charisma deficit. Not a lack of charisma. I’m talking negative charisma. It’s rare.
Looks like Mr. Accountability, John Boehner, has a problem with cause and effect. He suggests Obama is responsible for the latest jobs report.
http://politicalticker.blogs.c…..ter-hamby/
Sounds like another post Scarecrow!
More loot for their war-profiteering, subcontracter friends to replace it.
Agree. I’ve been suprised/dismayed at how little insight/wisdom has been shown by the senior members/chairs of the budget/finance/banking committees. We really have a weak bench and we’re in the mother of all world series.
Yeah John McCain investigated how many no bid military contracts when the GOP had control of the Senate?
Did the Surge work because General Petraeus paid the Iraqi’s?
Could we have won the war if the GOP made sure our troops got the equipment they needed like bullet proof vests and armored humvees when it was suppose to be delivered?
http://www.mydd.com/
I think this might be why the GOP is holding up the budget.
http://www.mydd.com/
Oh, but wait. It gets better, folks.
All this is per the BLS
For February 2009 the civilian noninstitutional population age 16 and over is 235 million. This is partitioned into the employed (142 million), the unemployed (12.5 million) and not in the labor force (80.7 million).
Let’s suppose that half of those not in the labor force really aren’t seeking work. Folks like my parents, and stay-at-home parents, etc. The other half would work if a job was available, but they haven’t found one and have stopped searching.
The real unemployment rate is around 27% on that basis. If the “discouraged workers” only amount to one-fourth of those classified as not in the labor force, then the real unemployment rate is 19%.
This isn’t counting the under-employed, those who are employed for statistical purposes but working part-time rather than full-time. Nor does it count those who might be working full-time, but not in a position commensurate with their knowledge, skills and experience.
The stimulus that was passed is too small. US GDP in 2008 was on the order of $14 trillion. If you think that it takes 10% of something to change direction, the stimulus package that passed was too small by about half. So yeah, we need another stim. Duh. Aside from that, the circa $750 billion number that’s bandied about runs through 2019, folks. Spending in the current FY is about $140 billion. That’s 1% of last year’s GDP.
Worried about government debt? Don’t. Government budgets aren’t like household budgets, or even corporate budgets. Government budgets cost out capital projects in the current FY, any rational entity would amortize the cost over the life of the project. So, for example, the cost of rebuilding the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis goes on the book for this year. But the bridge should have a 35-40 year lifetime. There isn’t a corporation in the world that would be profitable under those rules. When Union Pacific buys a locomotive, they expect it to last 30-40 years and cost it out accordingly.
Folks, the United States was born in debt, has never been out of debt and likely will never be out of debt. What we can’t afford is the human misery of another Great Depression.
I want to hear more money going to the states because whatever benefits we get from the tax breaks are going to have to be taken back by tax hikes of various forms (sales, income, etc.) when the states try to fulfill their legal mandate to balance their budgets. My state is cutting back by furloughing state employees one day a week for some or a week or two for others. They are reducing some other services as well. We don’t need situations wherein you take out of one pocket to put it into another.
Naive question of the (mmmmm) hour. Would it be possible (desirable?) to prohibit earmarks on upcoming stimuli? Or is that the only way that even a fragment of the task can be accomplished?
From Mark Kleiman’s Reality Based Community:
Bush I: A thousand points of light.
Bush II: A thousand points to loot.
The war was “won” by the contractor greedheads. They got what they wanted, are still feeding off the trough, and are now ready to “do battle” to get more, per Digby.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
OK.. I just read a stupid Clark Howard piece on why the stimulus will fail, ’cause stimuli cause “false recoveries”… he says this is cold, hard economics, as if another two bit talk radio host knows what that is. Ughhh! our country is being destroyed by clueless instant-expert radio shiteheads.
Good point getting rid of No Child left behind should save the states education budgets.
Taxing Pot could help,insulting state government buildings like schools which Obama said he would do should cut state expenses. All thats off the top of my head.
I want to hear what the experts think we can do to save the states money. I’m sure they got better ideas than me.
hehe.. they added a new post in front of the one about Boehner you linked, so if you click on it you get to a headliner announcing the commencement of scifi writer Newt Gingrich’s 2012 presidential bid (I’m serious)
Holding up the current budget is the first battle then.
Let me be the first to apologize from Ohio that we are sorry to be inflicting the country with this person who lacks wisdom, knowledge and…just lacks …with the exception of a tan, an exceptional tan.
So very, very sorry.
Now THIS is the kind of Scarecrow in the morning post I’ve been missing.
Glad you found your Wheaties again, sir!
Nationalize the damn banks now!
End their ability to lobby for a single line of legislation… they are criminal failures for pete sakes!
Put the banksters in jail and ban them from ever working in the financial industry again.
I’m probably in the minority, but if you defined effective stimulus as very targeted spending that could occur quickly and turn money over quickly, and that are good ideas in any event, etc, then you’d need some mechanism for deciding which proposed projects/ideas deserved approval. The CW argument is that when individual memebers propose such things = earmarks — they’re inherently wasteful, and possibly corrupt, and no doubt some (many?) are. But not inherently so. It may make perfect sense to fund programs to keep honey bees alive in Oregon, or monitor volcanoes in Hawaii, or repair a particular bridge in Minnesota, etc.
The alternative would be to set up a stimulus funding oversight board/agency and require project sponsors to submit proposals for approval, subject to the “correct” criteria for “good stimulus spending.” Then give them a huge budget and directive to get the money out to worthwhile projects as expeditiously as they could. I’m okay with that, – it was in the original stimulus bill, but I think taken out because??? — so instead, money is channeld through the existing agencies. But then the Republicans would claim “we’re just handing billions over to some bureaucrat to spend at his/her discretion, and that’s irresponsible.” You can’t please duplicitous idiots and we should stop trying.
In the 1930s we put millions of people to work doing simple stuff, like building trails and protective railings along those trails into our national parks; we built tourist lodges at the tops of mountains just so people could stop, take a break and see the view; we built libraries, and court houses and schools and thousands of things that today are described as “pork” or wasteful spending — but they weren’t.
Those are the things we treasure today.
The problem isn’t earmarks vs non-earmarks; the problem is the mindlessness of the people, in both parties, opposing public spending at a time when public spending is exactly what the country needs. I have no patience for the Bayhs or Boehners. They couldn’t build anything with a box of Legos and instructions.
I do not know why I did not think about this sooner. Add tanning earmarks with solar energy projects for Ohio and Boehner will be pro stimulus.
Earmarks are irrelevant. First, they don’t account for that much of the spending. Second, the point of the spending is stimulus and most of the earmarks would fulfill this function as well as other spending and much better than tax cuts.
Blub at #28, the purpose of stimuli is not to create a recovery but merely to keep things going so that natural growth in demand in the economy can reassert itself and that creates the recovery. The problem this time around is that there was such a dislocation in the real economy caused by the concentration of wealth into the paper economy that a major re-industrialization of the real economy is needed, and I have heard precious little about this. I would guess that it would take 5-7 years of stimuli to tide us over until our economy can be re-imagined and rebuilt.
The problem isn’t earmarks vs non-earmarks; the problem is the mindlessness of the people, in both parties, opposing public spending at a time when public spending is exactly what the country needs. I have no patience for the Bayhs or Boehners. They couldn’t build anything with a box of Legos and instructions.
(my bold)
Do you have any ideas how we can mobilize against this tide of false arguements? It sounds like we need to push back hard.
Wow! Thanks for this. At first read, the stimulus oversight board/agency sounds like the way to go. At first read. Then comes the “well, it has to be bipartisan” piece. Which may be true or not. But if true, it sets up yet another battle zone between the parties and another layer of conflict. Urgh. My immediate reaction is something along the lines of, “Okay. Obama needs to say ‘The crap stops here!’ and take a firm hand in the oversight, appointing stimulus oversight person(s) and taking his lumps. At least it would expedite the process. What the heck? We have seven individuals with final say on our judicial issues, and much of the time, that works reasonably well (she said cautiously).
Well, I think Obama has appointed group and head cop to oversee stimlulus monies and serve as a deterrent to fraud/abuse, etc.
Klynn at 37: call Bayh’s office (and other Senators) and let them know how you feel.
It’s done. How will the netroots mobilize on the economy? I asked this same question during the Stimulus Package dance.
I should say that we are currently down 3.41 million jobs from when the recession began in December 2007. (137.180 million – 133.768 million)
The economy also needs to create at least 120,000 jobs a month just to keep up with growths in population. (1.44 million a year). Looking at from when the recession began in December 2007 to the end of this first stimulus at the end of 2010, we are talking 3 years or 4.32 million jobs.
Taking these two numbers together and if no more jobs were lost in the coming months, we are talking 7.73 million jobs needed just to tread water.
In fact, more net jobs will be lost in the coming months: one million, two million? and these would have to be added on that 7.73 million, so we could easily be talking about 8.73-9.73 million, and remember that is just to stay in place.
If we figure in the jobs needed for expansion, the lowball number for jobs needed to be created each month is 150,000 (1.8 million a year). Over the same 3 year period, this would be 5.4 million jobs. Adding this to the 3.41 million already lost and the one to two million prospectively lost we are talking about 9.8-10.8 million jobs needed to be created to the end of 2010.
See the problem?
on the stimulus, mortgages and banking – i’d score feldstein 1 out of 3. the obama team gets .5 out of 3. (with both failing on mortgages and banking, the only points scored are on stimulus).
2 plus 2 still equals 4?
Yes, no one seems interested in even scoping out what the dimensions of the problem are, let alone how to deal with it.
Hugh, that’s a succinct stand alone post, imo.
second!
Well it might be more helpful if it were more accurate. The December 2007 employment number is higher: 138.152 million – 133.768 million. That would be 4.384 million jobs lost since the beginning of the recession.
Treading water scenario through 2010 (the end of the stimulus):
4.384 million (jobs already lost) + 4.32 million (jobs for population growth) + 1-2 million (jobs still to be lost) = 9.7-10.7 million.
To move to recovery, more jobs than this would be needed: On the order of at least 432,000 a year more.
Sorry for the previous errors.
so it’s even worse? what horrible news. thanks though.
David Drier of California was on Hardball telling how the Republicans had all the right ideas and they just wouldn’t let them put them in the stimulus bill. Where are all those ideas in their pockets they never say anything other than cutting taxes. If you cut all the taxes then nobody is paying for anything and you think the country is in debt now. This guy should be tried and convicted for wasting our time he is being paid for. He spent months working to Arnold elected in California never spending any time in Washington doing his job. He spends more time running around the country campaigning for others than he does being a representative. I’ve never heard one idea from any republican that ever would fix a problem. If their so smart why after their six years of total control isn’t the country in great shape. Anyone who even listens to them is nuts.
Bill Kristol said that if they couldn’t stop Obama, then at least they could slow him up.
They truly do want him to fail because they care more about gaining power than about fixing America.