In a NYT op-ed, today, Tzipi Livni, former Iraeli minister of foreign affairs and current leader of the Kadima party, picks up on President Obama’s speech in which he addressed the prospects that entities like Hezbollah and Hamas participate in and win democratic elections.
Livni is not merely reinterpreting Obama’s principles. She seems to be laying down conditions for electoral participation that few if any political parties could meet, either in Israel or America, let alone in Lebanon or Palestine.
In his Cairo speech, Obama spoke of what’s expected of democratically elected governments, but he did not impose strict conditions on electoral participation. First, on Hamas/Palestine:
Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel’s right to exist.
And on democracy generally, Obama sends a message to Hezbollah:
And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments – provided they govern with respect for all their people.
This last point is important because there are some who advocate for democracy only when they are out of power; once in power, they are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others. No matter where it takes hold, government of the people and by the people sets a single standard for all who hold power: you must maintain your power through consent, not coercion; you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy.
In Livni’s view, the principle becomes this:
Many have called for the elections to be free and fair. But few have asked whether this is even possible if Hezbollah — the radical Shiite party with a huge arsenal and a deeply anti-democratic agenda — is viewed as a legitimate participant in the process.
A similar question arose before Hamas’s participation in the 2006 Palestinian Authority elections. Then, as Israeli justice minister, I tried in vain to persuade the international community that to promote democracy it was not enough to focus on the technical conduct of elections, it was necessary to insist that those who sought the benefits of the democratic process accepted its underlying principles as well. . . .
I believe that democracy is about values before it is about voting. These values must be nurtured within society and integrated into the electoral process itself. We cannot offer international legitimacy for radical groups and then simply hope that elections and governance will take care of the rest. In fact, the capacity to influence radical groups can diminish significantly once they are viewed as indispensable coalition partners and are able to intimidate the electorate with the authority of the state behind them.
For this reason, the international community must adopt at the global level what true democracies apply at the national one — a universal code for participation in democratic elections. This would include requiring every party running for office to renounce violence, pursue its aims by peaceful means and commit to binding laws and international agreements. This code should be adopted by international institutions, like the United Nations, as well as regional bodies. It would guide elections monitors and individual nations in deciding whether to accord parties the stamp of democratic legitimacy, and signal to voters that electing an undemocratic party would have negative international consequences for their country.
This seems an appealing principle, but I don’t see how this view gets applied. If we were to apply Livni’s principles uniformly, then neither of the two parties in the United States, including the current Administration, would qualify, since it’s clear that both parties and the Administration consistently support violence in the form of unilateral military action in multiple foreign countries as a legitimate element of foreign policy. No major political party or politician in the US believes the US should "renounce violence, pursue its aims by peaceful means and commit to binding laws and international agreements."
Nor would any of the major Israeli parties, including the current government, meet this condition. Most support the use of state-sanctioned violence — military intervention — in Lebanon and/or Gaza, and the use of military protection to shield settlements on the West Bank, to achieve their political goals.
Of course, all of these state actors insist the resort to violence and military force is legitimate in the name of self-defense — a principle universally recognized — so that doesn’t count. But they also insist that non-state actors — whose non-state status is often imposed by state actors using violence — do not have this recognized right of self defense.
If that’s how we define the problem, then I don’t see how Livni has advanced the conversation; instead, she’s highlighted, even exemplified, the problem that has to be solved. And it’s not just her; it’s all of us.
(h/t to Juan Cole, Informed Consent for the video)



32 Comments







This question has been argued since the Greeks. Appreciate the posting Scarecrow,recommended.
Much has been made about Israel being a ‘democracy’ BUT it hasn’t a Constitution; surprised? See here
And note “and instead Israel has evolved a system of basic laws and rights, which enjoy semi-constitutional status. This provisional solution is increasingly inadequate for Israel’s needs, and the necessity for completing this historic task has never been so urgent.” And who controls the Knesset?
I’m a great fan of constitutions that define the powers/limits of government and the rights of people, but even more a fan of adhering to them (assuming they actually “promote the public welfare,” etc.
The absence of a formal constitution can be a problem, but so can having a constitution when the executive branch ignores it, the legislative branch looks the other way, and the judicial branch pretends that such behavior is “constitutional.” We live in a glass house.
Granted, neither Canada or New Zealand have Constitutions but neither of them are occupying other countries.
My point is that all the talk about Israel being a democracy is bovine excrement.
” The Constitution of Canada (La Constitution du Canada in French) is the supreme law in Canada; the country’s constitution is an amalgamation of codified acts and uncodified traditions and conventions. It outlines Canada’s system of government, as well as the civil rights of all Canadian citizens.
Constitution Act, 1867
This was an Act of the British Parliament, originally called the British North America Act 1867, that created the Dominion of Canada out of three separate provinces in British North America (Province of Canada, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia) and allowed for subsequent provinces and colonies to join this union in the future. It outlined Canada’s system of government, which combines Britain’s Westminster model of parliamentary government with division of sovereignty (federalism). Although it is the first of twenty British North America Acts, it is still the most famous of these and is understood to be the document of Canadian Confederation (i.e. union of provinces and colonies in British North America). With the patriation of the Constitution in 1982, this Act was renamed Constitution Act, 1867. In recent years, the Constitution Act, 1867 has mainly served as the basis on which the division of powers between the provinces and federal government have been analyzed.
Constitution Act, 1982
Endorsed by all the provincial governments except Quebec’s, this was an Act by the Canadian Parliament requesting full political independence from Britain. Part V of this Act created a constitution-amending formula that did not require an Act by the British Parliament. Further, Part I of this Act is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms which outlines the civil rights and liberties of every citizen in Canada, such as freedom of expression, of religion, and of mobility. Part II deals with the rights of Canada’s Aboriginal peoples.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
As noted above, this is Part I of the Constitution Act, 1982. The Charter is the constitutional guarantee of collective and individual rights. It is a relatively short document and written in plain language in order to ensure accessibility to the average citizen. It is said that it is the part of the constitution that has the greatest impact on Canadians’ day-to-day lives, and has been the fastest developing area of constitutional law for many years. “
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Constitution
I got the ‘Canada’ part from here; should have been UK (surprise !),New Zealand, and Israel.
Appreciate the correction.
Not problem…since Harper took over we don’t seem to be exactly following it anyways..’g’.
Examples of what happens when the protections given under our constitution aren’t acknowledged and followed. These are the not so charming fellows who sent Maher Arar to Syria to be tortured for a year and have worked to keep Omar Khadr in Guantanamo. They also destroyed their information concerning the bombing of the Air India flight in 1985. Judging by this article, not much of what they have ever said or done in relation to terrorism suspect’s cases can be trusted.
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” Canada’s spy agency concealed for seven years the fact that a secret source in the Mohamed Harkat terrorism case had failed a polygraph test, a Federal Court of Canada judge revealed Friday.
“The failure to include relevant information in the source matrix was inexcusable and is a matter of profound concern to the Service,” CSIS’s senior counsel Michael Duffy said in the letter.
In a second letter that Judge Noel made public Friday, CSIS admitted having administered a polygraph to its source in the Harkat case in both 2002 and 2008, after his “activities and associations” came under suspicion.
The letter said that source was “untruthful” in several of his responses: “It is clear that the Court and the Special Advocate should have been made aware of the complete results of the polygraph examinations, and the failure to do so is a serious matter.”
“Most of the evidence in this case has been destroyed, including all of the original notes and sources,” he said. “We don’t even have the original interviews with these sources; we are relying on summaries.
“My concern isn’t limited to this one source,” Mr. Boxall said. “How do we know about the other sources? How can we trust the summaries prepared by CSIS, in view of this behaviour? This raises serious questions about the integrity of the security certificate process.” “
http://www.theglobeandmail.com…..le1171641/
‘Democracy’ in Israel.
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” Most regrettably and disgracefully, everything that Lord Rothschild predicted is coming to pass in our time. In our blackest dreams and in the hardest times since the struggle to establish the state, we never imagined that those who call themselves disciples of Ze’ev Jabotinsky would impose terror and fear here using deranged racist legislation. We never imagined that they would use the destruction of the court system to try to prevent any possibility of achieving social justice and a humane attitude. This is something essential in every democratic society toward every man, woman and child, irrespective of origin, race, religion and sex.
For 42 years we have been occupying, oppressing and stealing lands that are not ours. To be free in our land do we need to become thieving Cossacks, uprooters of trees, burners of fields and harassers of women, the elderly and the very young? “We have this land, we have it,” goes the song, but what should have been said is “We have the power, we have it, we have the money, we have it, and we are allowed, we are,” to starve an entire population, imprison it and annihilate it using air strikes, cluster bombs and white phosphorous. Because we are the lords of the land and God has chosen us to rule. For the shame of it.
“A unique people,” wrote David Ben-Gurion. Alas, for that uniqueness. Instead of a Jewish and democratic state they have delivered us a Jewish state controlled by religious fanaticism, one that maintains the purity of the race. They have delivered a democracy in the most primitive sense – not the preservation of democratic values but rule by the demos, the populace that is dictating the transformation of Israel into a totalitarian ethnocracy. “
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090366.html
This post is not about whether Israel (or the US) lives up to some ideal of democracy. If the thread goes off in that direction, either I’ve not been clear enough (likely) or readers have missed the point.
If the point was that Livni didn’t advance the cause of non-state actors, yeah, I missed the point.
What I know is that the U.S. has consistently and repeatedly vetoed U.N Resolutions that provide the right to ’self defense’ when such occurs from those fighting for their right to self determination.
The old saying of ‘one man’s terrorist is anothers freedom fighter’ holds true.
AND the U.S. repeatedly and continously refuses to hold Israel to U.N. Resolutions that HAVE passed the Security Counsel.
I think that’s closer to the topic I was raising.
“If we were to apply Livni’s principles uniformly, then neither of the two parties in the United States, including the current Administration, would qualify…. Nor would any of the major Israeli parties, including the current government.”
OK. Now that you put them in this light, I’m COMPLETELY sold on Livni’s principles. What’s not to like?
*BG*
“‘Democracy’ in Israel.”
This is the Israel that I grew up with.
That Israeli politicians have the nerve to insist others should adhere to international agreements, and are not laughed out of the place, is incredible.
with more than 2 political parties over there, how is anyone supposed to decide who is the Least Worst? must be confusing.
Book Salon up over at the Mothership with Charles Pierce’s Idiot America hosted by Watertiger
well, any person who isn’t a Palastinian, and assumes he knows what the Palastinian people want or need IS A FOOKIN MORON
so when this asshat says this:
Tzipi Livni, former Iraeli minister of foreign affairs and current leader of the Kadima party os admitting that he is a fookin idiot
some stupid fucker who thinks he KNOWS what Palastinains want or need
look again:
notice how the dickwad can tell the Palastinians what THE PALASTINIANS MUST DO
considering that he is an Israeli, shouldn’t he be talking about what the Israelis MUST DO
didn’t his God mention something about addressing the beam in your own eye before you mention the mote in your neighbor’s eye
it takes two sides to make a war
and I don’t think one side can dictate terms to the other side in the middle af a war
if Hamas needs to end the violence, THEN YOU NEED TO FIND A WAY TO HELP THEM DO IT, Tzipi Livni, you miserable PUTZ
maybe Hamas is doing exactly what the Palastinian people want, defending the Palastinian people from murderers and thieves who think they can dictate even the wants and needs of the people they murder and steal from
so there’s that …
Tzipi Livni is a woman.
A bit OT but I hope not too much. After Obama’s Cairo speech I began thinking about all the people in the Middle East who have had close relatives killed, and then I thought about the concept of honour and revenge killing. For some people in some cultures it’s a moral obligation, not something one can just shirk off and preserve one’s sense of dignity.
That got me thinking about the Orestia, the trilogy of plays Aeschylus wrote back in the day to investigate this issue. Just about everyone I suppose has read or seen the Agamemnon. But the key piece is the last one, the Euminedes, in which the demons of revenge are mastered. It’s worth a read in these troubled times. Truly ageless wisdom.
Sometimes I inappropriately laugh at something. But having said that I found this Haaretz article title pretty damn funny: Israeli officials: Obama leaves us no choice but to okay Palestinian state
In fact, the capacity to influence radical groups can diminish significantly once they are viewed as indispensable coalition partners and are able to intimidate the electorate with the authority of the state behind them.
Which far-right/settler Israeli political parties do you suppose she was talking about?
Maybe this one. Not friendly of him to threaten Obama with another 911. One that will be orchestrated by the same ‘Islam’ group that did the first 911 according to these words.
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” MK Aryeh Eldad (National Union): “Obama makes a shocking parallel between the destruction of European Jewry and the suffering that the Arabs of Israel brought upon themselves when they declared war on
Israel.”
MK Eldad: How dare Obama compare Arab refugee suffering to the six million Jews murdered in the Holocaust?
“If Obama does not understand the difference between them, perhaps he will understand it better when he visits the Buchenwald concentration camp in the comings days. And if he doesn’t understand it even there, then Islam will once again teach it to him, just as it taught his predecessor on 9/11.” “
http://www.israelnationalnews……spx/131709
” “Extremism” was top of the agenda, even though al-Qaida, once so modern and cutting edge, is now tired and irrelevant. But it was prodded out of its stall again as justification for American operations in Afghanistan. We were reminded of the 3,000 people killed in New York – people who had done no harm to anyone. And every person listening east of Rome and many west of it would have been thinking “and what about the million Iraqis, what about the Afghanis, what about …” And nothing about non-Muslim extremism, about the 40 million American Christian Zionists anticipating the Rapture with glee, or the Israeli settlers who in Hebron take your photo and upload it to God to fast-lane you to hell.
Obama’s speech was a lawyerly speech, a clever speech. It certainly departed from the Bush discourse, but how far away from the policies of the last eight years are the sources it springs from? We still can only wait and see.
The biggest applause he got was when he said that all US troops would be out of Iraq by 2012, and when he repeated his position on the Israeli settlements. He’s been brave on the settlements, and of course we’re all grateful for every step in the direction of halting the dispossession of the Palestinians. But it also needs to be remembered that stopping the settlements has been part of the official position of every American administration; what’s required is the implementation of that position by cutting off the funding for the settlements and closing the tax loophole that allows private American organisations to fund them. “
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm…..bama-cairo
Obama made mention of making it easier for Muslims in the US to fulfill their obligations of ‘zakat’ or charitible giving. This is only a few days after the sentencing of two executives of the Holy Land Foundation for supporting the charities sponsored by Hamas. This is after a hung jury in a previous trial and very weak evidence. Hamas filled a void. That is why they won the election. Outlawing the charitible giving to suffering people is a big mistake. Sentencing these two executives to 65 years in prison is a big mistake. Very little attention was paid in the media here, but you can be sure Obama’s mention of ‘zakat’ seemed ironic. He’s needs to be reminded of his promise in his speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Foundation
I put some facts about the HLF case at another diary; #22 would interest you. Sometimes it appears that Obama doesn’t know what is happening in the real world. His speeches are somewhat detached from the reality on the ground so to speak. Ashcroft declared HLF a terrorist organization in Dec /01 and then it took until 2004 to charge them. Not having evidence would explain the delay. Eventually, an anonymous Israeli government official appeared with secret testimony. He failed to lie well enough in the 2007 trial, so he improved his testimony for the second trial. I hope these men win on appeal because their trial was a farce.
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5500
Under these rules:
“This would include requiring every party running for office to renounce violence, pursue its aims by peaceful means and commit to binding laws and international agreements. “
All the political parties in Isreal would be disbarred.
Isn’t it hilarious that when Pres. Obama gives a nice clear speech that everyone ‘interprets’ it and tries to understand it and there are 50 different meanings reported.
Ms. Livni speaks of democracy, one small element of the M.E. picture, and despite *any* interpretation it carries the same meaning and that isn’t appealing. I think she is capable of greater thoughts and better dreams for the future of her part of the world.
As Pres. Obama has said, it’s time to rise above arguing over small things and imagine a future which is better for everyone. Then get on with establishing it.
In Pakistan Zardari is doing that. The Taliban and it’s associates attack and blow up things, so he has sent the military to destroy them. It’s simple, dreadfully bloody, but it moves them toward a future with better relations (helped along by trusty Mr. Holbrooke) with all their neighbors.
One could only hope the politicians on our left coast could find a path as simple (though not bloody) to resolve their problems.
We know the path forward in the Middle East and Pres. Obama is simply nudging the participants along — he didn’t invent anything new. Now our fabulous Sec. of State and special envoys get to do the nitty gritty work of helping all the parties get it done. Despite the odd election results for Ms. Livni it would behoove her to follow Netanyahu’s lead on this and keep their discussions (which one would expect to occur) largely behind closed doors. After all, Kadima party members will have to live with the results as well as other Israelis.
I wonder, does everyone in that part of the world drink Turkish coffee or is tea allowed too.
Two quotes from Livni I’d like to comment on:
1)”the radical Shiite party with a huge arsenal”
Yes, of course Ms. Livni. Because, when I think of Israel I always think of a nation with a tiny military and law enforcement arm and their extreme reluctance to use force. Livni is peaceful, only armed with a deep cache of chutzpah.
2) “not enough to focus on the technical conduct of elections, it was necessary to insist that those who sought the benefits of the democratic process accepted its underlying principles as well. . . .I believe that democracy is about values before it is about voting”
That statement is EXACTLY why insuring that the “technical conduct” of the elections is free and fair is the MOST important part. The whole point of voting is to at least try to prevent people like Livni from bullying you to follow what they deem as acceptable or unacceptable democratic principles.
Exactly the type of talk one would expect from the daughter of terrorists and her own life as a Mossad spy in the UK. Lying in order to protect herself was her life..24/7; it is her life now. Reality is what she says it is and democracy is what she says it is. I can see where her definition of democracy fit when attempts were made to keep the Arab party out of the last elections. I can see where it fits with her justification of genocide against the people of Gaza. Levni is on a real high of self importance when she writes that the world must change the accepted definition of democracy to hers. She should write another oped and explain what exactly those underlying principles of democracy are that she mentioned. What is her motive in writing her propaganda piece?
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” Was Livni repeating something from her own past when she was living out this secret life? It turns out that both Livni’s parents had been arrested in Israel for terrorist crimes in the 1940s.
Livni’s mother had been a member of the militant Zionist group, Irgun, that operated in Palestine during the British mandate. Disguised as pregnant, she robbed a train carrying £35,000 and blew up another en route from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv. Livni’s father attacked a British military base and was sentenced to 15 years in jail and escaped.
In her involvement with Mossad, it is clear that Livni was following in her parents’ patriotic footsteps. It is also clear that she had grown up in a family who were used to keeping deadly secrets and conducting double lives.
As a young girl growing up in this environment, it is not surprising that Livni might have a natural attraction to becoming a spy and that she would be used to living with family secrets that she could not know about.
By entering into a double life of her own, Livni was not only identifying with her parents but she was reconstructing an atmosphere of secrecy and danger that may well have pervaded family life at least subconsciously. As it turned out, this was a life that she recognised she could not continue, or continue to repeat, as the price was too high. “
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/…..pys-life,2
Nicely said. Exceptionalism on steroids. Whether U.S. or Israel, we demand the security of every other country to be one down. We and Israel demand our untrustworthy self-aggrandizing wills and POWER be respected and courted and by all means unconditionally trusted, while we assert many conditions of our needs. Heads we win, tails you lose … heads, you still lose.
Just to make sure..a coin with heads on both sides is used..’g’.