Democratic leaders and the Obama Administration deliberately excluded advocates for a single payer model from being part of the main health care reform effort. But recently Max Baucus reportedly said this exclusion was a mistake.
He conceded that it was a mistake to rule out a fully government-run health system, or a “single-payer plan,” not because he supports it but because doing so alienated a large, vocal constituency and left Mr. Obama’s proposal of a public health plan to compete with private insurers as the most liberal position.
Yglesias and Atrios discuss the compromised bargaining implications of this “mistake,” while Ezra Klein pushes back on the notion that Democrats are just bad negotiators. I don’t think it matters.
There are other important reasons why Congress should be examining single payer, and I’m not referring to the obvious points that single payer should have been on the table because (a) it works and (b) has a proven track record of covering everyone at lower cost in other places.
Even if somehow we all agreed that enacting single payer was simply a bridge too far to transition from a system in which about 60 percent of us get health insurance through work, there’s still a reason why single payer should be examined. It relates to the predictable problems affecting revenues and incentives now surfacing in the Senate’s discussions. This NYT article introduces the problem:
Senators struggled Wednesday with the possibility that in offering subsidized health insurance to millions of individuals and families, they could inadvertently speed the erosion of employer-provided coverage, which they want to preserve. . . .
Democrats in both houses of Congress want to require people to carry insurance. They would offer subsidies to low- and moderate-income people who buy coverage through a new regulated market known as a health insurance exchange. Employers who do not provide coverage might have to pay penalties or contribute to a government fund. . . .
Mr. Baucus, the chairman of the Finance Committee, said senators were investigating “the ramifications and implications” of requiring employers to provide or pay for coverage, the so-called play-or-pay requirement. Mr. Baucus said he and other senators wanted to minimize the chance that employees “may be enticed to leave their firms in order to get health insurance in the exchange.”
The budget office said: “The availability of subsidized coverage in the new insurance exchange would be an attractive option for many lower-income workers. As a result, some employers would decide not to offer their employees health insurance coverage, opting instead to provide other forms of compensation.”
Frankly, I think any reform that creates workable competition will, through choice, “speed the erosion of employer-provided coverage,” and it’s a mistake to prevent that. Nevertheless, Ezra Klein touched on a related set of incentive problems here, and other observers like UC Berkeley’s Jacob Hacker (see video) who understood the problem have proposals to solve it.
But as far as I know, there don’t appear to be successful examples of the “uniquely American” hybrid model that somehow combines employment-based insurance, competition between public vs private insurance plans in an exchange, plus government-sponsored Medicare/Medicaid — and makes it all work in a sensible fashion.
Or to put it another way, there’s a reason why this model would be “uniquely American.” It’s because no one else has made such a combination work.
To hold this hybrid system together, experts will need to design payment incentives and disincentives that both allow choice but don’t lead to unintended cost shifting between employer-based plans and individual-based plans acquired in the exchange.
My guess is this will eventually lead to a unified system in which all plans must meet minimum standards, perhaps all plans that meet the mandate are acquired through the exchange, and all plans must be subject to the same funding mechanisms and subsidies. That’s not where we are, yet.
The current proposals assume that we will retain the employer-sponsored insurance system, and also create a separate market for plans offered in an exchange, but still allow choice between these two systems. It’s the ability to switch that fulfills the promise of competition "keeping them honest."
But as Congress works through whether and how employers must contribute to the costs when they either stop covering or don’t cover some employees, and those folks wind up in the exchange, I think they’ll realize that everyone, no matter where they started, will have to be under a unified system. You might still be “covered at work” under your current plan, but your plan is now an exchange plan and meets the standard exchange rules for coverage, non-exclusion of prior conditions, community ratings, etc. Much of the distinction between employer-based plans and exchange-based plans could simply disappear.
This also means that additional revenue sources that are independent from the employer-based system, as Obama is proposing, create fewer problems than broadly selectively taxing health benefits tied to employers. That explains Obama’s disagreement with Baucus’ Committee.
That’s why examining the single-payer model would be useful. One of its virtues is the elegance and relative simplicity of the accounting/payment/revenue structure. People need care; they get it from providers. The providers have to be paid, so there have to be sources of revenues and an administrative function to allocate those revenues fairly to the providers based on the care they provide. It works because these revenues and accounting rules are uniform, so it doesn’t matter whether the patient is employed or not employed.
That comparatively simple, fair financial and accounting structure is the model for what a proposed hybrid system has to achieve. And by not having that model in mind, it’s harder for even expert market designers, let alone Congress, to sort through the effects of revenue collection and payment/incentives that will be needed to make the hybrid system work.



85 Comments







Better than nothing, I suppose, but what you’re saying (as I know you know) boils down to this: We should examine single payer to learn the lessons it has to teach us except for the ones we insist, from the start, on not learning.
Not quite. Consider this post with the one describing the elements of a public plan, which is also partly about the design rules that apply to plans in the “exchange.” If you follow the design rules I’m talking about, you’ll see there’s a single payer system in the middle. The point is that to solve the accounting, cost-shift problems Congress is struggling with, you have to start with single payer concept at the core.
Think of the outines of an “Iron Cross.” That’s what Congress is thinking. But if you look at the outline in a different way, you’ll realize it’s also the picture of a daisy.
Your problem is that single pay plans are not “insurance” with “claims”" as we now know them. A significant part of single payer savings is that there is not the overhead of claims & payments.
what planet do you live on?
I deal with my elderly parents claim payments of Medicare A & B are paid correctly and forwarded on to their medigap policy for payment. Of course their are claims, there is very low overhead as there is a minimal review department in the standard Medicare Plan but a doctor submits a claim for reimbursement and there is an explanation of benefits are sent out to the subscriber. Usually it is seamless and painless.
You’re talking about making the most of a bad situation; fine. But the central lesson of single payer’s success is that US-style profit-based insurers have no place in a just or economically sound health care system. That’s the lesson our leaders refuse to learn (actually, they have learned it; they’re just scared to death the American people will).
As for the technocratic lessons to learn, although other systems are instructive and worth studying, Medicare has already addressed most of these issues and provides a solid infrastructural scaffolding on which to build. But meanwhile, under Obamacare, we’ll not only have preserved the existing, wasteful bureaucracies but built a new, equally superfluous one — the “exchange” — and added mandates, to boot.
Obama is in such an all-fired rush to pass reform not just to try to outrun a right-wing counterattack but perhaps even more so to outrun Americans’ growing awareness of what a crappy deal he’s crafting.
Put aside your views of Obama and think about the design features. You’re still thinking Iron Cross.
Medicare is essentially a single payer system for everyone over 65. But private insurers offer “supplemental.” Obama wants to stop the subsidies for those, so that they truly become supplemental and not government-subsidized displacement. This is important.
Like Medicare, the Exchange would define the standards, coverage rules, etc, but again with the ability to choose a public or private plan. The public plan, which is analogous to sp for those who choose it, is the model for those rules, which then apply to all plans in the exchange. Integrate employer-based plans under the same exchange rules. Now look at this model and ask yourself what it looks like within 5-10 years. Do you see an iron cross, or a daisy? How you design those rules determines what this will look like.
It’s very important. My question to you is, to pay for the “supplemental” Medicare Advantage Plan, that pays for my drugs and the 20% of my medical bills that Medicare doesn’t pay, the gov’t deducts nearly $100/mo from my disability check. With my copays, etc., I regularly spend an additional nearly $200/mo or more from my fixed income for medical care. If Obama wants to “stop the subsidies” for my Medicare Advantage Plan, what happens to my already meager fixed income? (I think you will find a lot of other people asking this same question, which is, in fact, the most important question of them all, IMHO.)
We need a more knowledgeable persons on the details, but as I understand the basics:
Medicare = everyone 65 and older, you’re in. Premiums about $100/month for but doesn’t cover drugs, which are covered by another part (Part D). Covers some basics, but not everything. It’s govt. sponsored insurance paid for via payroll taxes.
Medicare Advantage == govt’ subsidized private insurance, in lieu of Medicare. To encourage the private insurers, the govt pays the insurer about 14% more than what it would cost the government for the same coverage under direct Medicare. “Advantage” can also cover more than basic. So Obama says, eliminate this “subsidy” for the basics and use the $$ to cover more people with insurance and Medicaid. The insurers will claim this will force them to raise premiums or limit coverage or both. It’s their market and profits they’re worried about.
Medicaid — Govt sponsored insurance for low income (for those not yet old enought for Medicare). Obama and Dems generally want to expand eligility to Medicaid, which susidizes folks with low income. There are varying proposals to raise the cut off for eligbility to 133% to 400% of federal poverty level. The higher the cut off, the more people become eligible so the more it costs the feds. Senate Finance has used CBO to “score” the costs of different cutoff levels. Nothing nailed down yet.
my parents switched from traditional medicare to Medicare advantage around six years ago. A total pain in the ass when folks end up in therapy. With traditional medicare you get your 90 days of coverage and therapy if recommended. The private insurance companies involved with the meidcare advantage (Un Secure Horizons in my fathers situation) I call them Un Secure Horizons not Secure Horizons) harassed my father, the nursing home therapy team as to whether he was progressing as fast as they thought he should. They cut him off then we appealed, then they cut him off and then we appealed again this went on seven times over a year and a half. Traditional medicare with a supplement is what all the inside folks say works best. Most health care workers say stay clear of the private insurance companies that folks switch to because they often are fooled into that this is more responsible.
traditional medicare gives you your 90 days with not as much hassle and haranging
exactly.
thats right!
that is the role of the (D) – to avert real reform or change of broken, corrupt, crooked systems, and instead fob off paltry, half-baked ‘reforms’ that cosmetically address the worst of the offenses, but most importantly, neutralize public outrage that might lead to real change!
by fervently supporting this corporatist, DLC candidate, the left netroots has made its bed, now Obama will stifle the opportunity of Single Payer for another generation.
The mendacity of nope. (Who said that first, anyway?)
thats a good one.
I liked also:
“The audacity of the Hype”!
there are other reasons for putting hr 676 single payer comprehensive universal healthCARE on the table:
1. because then we understand that for the amount of money we spend on healthcare in this country today we could have comprehensive universal healthcare with no copays, no coinsurance, no deductibles. the price of our private insurance based system is tens of the thousands of deaths every year and more untold and unnecessary suffering.
2. because then we won’t ignore what experts like dr.s david himmelstein and steffie woolhandler are saying. people who have been studying the issue of health care reform and financing for years and have published their studies in peer reviewed journals. btw, himmelstein and woolhandler are also coauthors with elizabeth warren on the medical bankruptcy studies. ignoring them makes as much sense as ignoring elizabeth warren – iow, not at all.
….
thanks scarecrow!
Exactly! This is also why the standards discussion Scarecrow refers to is also crucial. We have to stop the sleight of hand and the bait-and-switch. Lay out exactly what the healthcare requirement is. Then lay out the proposed solutions. Apples and apples.
When we do that, I’m confident that the single-payer model will emerge as the only viable solution. If some private enterprise type can find a way to meet our requirements at a price that competes with an equivalent public system and still makes a profit, good for him. But I don’t see how anyone could craft a business model that would do what no current private insurer could do. Health insurers are in business because they are not particularly honest, not because there is actually money to be made in insuring health.
no one including America.
one thing about economics in the USA that drives me nuts (maybe it’s the same elsewhere?) is the focus on theories, on how we think things ought to work, instead of looking at how things actually work in the real world.
Exactly, which is why I’ve been pounding on that for weeks. The same thing happened in the fight over how to organize electricity markets. It became a religious war between abstract models, where contending sides couldn’t see that that you had to solve a common set of problems to make the system work.
The iron cross vs daisy moment actually occured in a hearing in San Francisco. A world-class market designer put a picture of an iron cross on the screen and asked if everyone could see the iron cross. Everyone raised their hands. Then she asked, “how many of you can see the daisy?” Only a few hands went up. “When you see the daisy, you’ll realize what we have to do.”
Congress is building an iron cross, because they can’t see the daisy.
i’m sorry, i don’t understand what you think the daisy is that i don’t see. i hope you will write more on this.
i do disagree though about there being a “common set of problems” – some problems for sure are common but there are also lots of differences. for example, with single payer there is no adverse selection problem to solve (with expensive exchanges, complicated regulations and enforcement, etc). there are cost savings with single payer that multi payer systems either don’t have or become problems to solve, problems that single payer doesn’t have.
the single payer approach actually SOLVES a bunch of the problems with multi payer systems.
We agree on all of that. Never mind the daisy. Next time we meet, I’ll show you the picture she showed us. It’s just a metaphor for being able to look at something and see something you didn’t notice before.
The United States is on the far fringe of that movement, which has started to infect other countries as well. I speak from experience as a professional economist mainly interested in understanding how things work, and not trying to rationalize why they work. Most modern economics is an extended rationalization. Willem Buiter has made some insightful comments on this with respect to macroeconomics, but the problem infects the whole field. The young economists are the most infected, because their teachers are totally infected.
is there a cure?
or even any kind of treatment?
The focus on theories is, IMO, mainly driven by Republican influences and the “free market” mantra, much of which has been assimilated by some Democrats and a lot of the Trad Media. This may be why these right wing and libertarian (don’t) think tanks like Heritage and Cato get so much media air time. It’s a corrupting and regressive theme, one that serves greed well.
That’s dead on, Selise. William Greider, in his new book “Come Home, America” says that as a reporter he likes to get his information from managers, CEOs, workers, customers, i.e. people. Other countries give everybody a voice. So you don’t get a theory unconnected to the workers or the community. Theories are coldhearted things and are often wrong.
Scarecrow, I love ya, but this iron cross business…basically, you’re telling me to stare at a shit sandwich until I see the pannini. Maybe my eyes will grow sufficiently fatigued for that to happen, but you’re still not going to get me to bite the thing.
Did you actually write that a public plan is “analogous to sp for those who choose it”? Do I really have to lay out how wrong that assertion is?
Listen, it’s absolutely feasible to craft a public plan sufficiently robust as to generate Grassley’s sweat-drenched nightmare of millions of Americans flocking from private to public. Such a process would serve to educate Americans as to the utter worthlessness of the private insurers except for supplemental coverage, a niche permitted even in France, and so seed the ground for the final coup de grace.
But not even the Progressive Caucus’s list of bulleted principles guarantees such robustness. Maybe Pete Stark’s Americare prescription would. But anything less is fatally hobbled, and that’s what we’re going to get.
I’ll ignore the insults. Your third paragraph is where we almost agree. If you can convince Congress to enact sp directly, fine; it you can’t convince Congress to buy sp directly, build your third paragraph, not to teach Americans a lesson, but to build the elements of what you want.
No insult intended. My point is that passage of a public option that supports the principle of health care as a human right is no more feasible in 2009 than single payer.
So progressives, instead of treating the public option as Valhalla, or even an incremental step in that direction, had better start pointing out the structural deficiencies of the public option vs single payer even in the course of supporting and attempting to strengthen it. The messaging is, The public option is the compromise, and in all likelihood, it’s insufficient. So we’ll work to pass it and make it as strong as possible, but it’s on probation, and if it fails, we fire the insurance companies and institute what works.
I don’t think anything I’ve written conflicts with that core message. We may disagree about how or whether the public plan model evolves once its in place, but my view is based on a hypothesis and market design theory, not on any fact/experience.
But it’s easier to insult people who are on your side than to lobby those who you believe are not. If R. would use the Whip Tool to whip for the HR 676 single-payer bill Selise cites, with the Public Option as the bare minimum compromise, then he can fling insults all he wants. (You are doing that, right, Ralph?)
oh for crying out loud. there were no insults. and please read some of ralphbon’s diaries and you will know how completely off base you are.
I’ve done more than that, PW. I’ve gone to Washington, walked into my congresswoman’s office, and lobbied her to hold firm on her cosponsorship of HR 676 and to reject any reform without a strong public option. I’ll also call her as part of your whip operation; what’s stopped me up to now is the embarrassing vagueness of bullet point 3.
I’m sorry if scarecrow took the pannini line as an insult, but the Iron Cross business sounds too much like the kind of corporate motivational gobbledegook I’ve spent a lifetime enduring and transcending. And the description of public option as “analogous to sp” is just flat out incorrect on the merits, as far more knowledgeable people than I have pointed out.
i personally do not see anything ralphbon has written as an insult. i see him strongly disagreeing with some of what you’ve written. i find it unfortunate that you’re seeing it as an insult. as i see it, he’s expressing his frustration with your position, not saying anything insulting to you.
Semi-OT. John Conyers’s wife Monica, president pro tem of the Detroit city council, just pleaded guilty to two counts of bribery.
It’s gonna be a bit tougher keeping John’s bill on the table, given what Monica was taking under the table.
have you got a link for this?
Here.
thank you. doesn’t make me happy, but i appreciate knowing.
Does anyone know if there is a chart comparing all the bills currently on the table and under consideration by each house of Congress? Some sort of abbreviated summary would make it much easier for a lot of folks to distinguish between and really grasp the differences. For instance, a lot of people think that Medicare and Medicaid are virtually the same, but I don’t think they are. My preference would be for Medicaid, because I don’t think there is an 80%-20% split, with the gov’t paying the 80% of allowable medical bills in Medicaid like there is with Medicare. That’s partly the reason I feel the need to have a medicare advantage plan, the other being prescription drugs, of course.
Apart from the single-payer bills, the only legislative text that’s been written is the 850-page tri-committee provisional draft under consideration in the House. It contains a public option plan somewhat analogous to the Schumer compromise (which I think scarecrow and I agree is “hobbled”). The Kos blogger slinkerwink gave a nice rundown of its strengths and weaknesses the other day; I’ll dig up that link for you.
Medicaid is a very small and grossly unfair model of Medicare and it has huge problems.
As for the Medicare advantage plans, they are a total tax payer paid ripoff and that has been in the media for quite some time. The other night when we were commenting on the ABC WH fiasco, I was struggling to remember the Obama line that knocked me off my seat; I knew it to be true, I had just never heard it said – he essentially said that the Medicare Advantage plans are a total ripoff of consumers (and the taxpayers).
Vis a vis the need for a comparative plan doc, there’s the Selise imported post by Dr. Bob ?????, which I wish would be made accessible again. Another short and thus very limited option is the NYT article: Key Challenges to the Health Care Dabate, which can be seen at
http://www.nytimes.com/interac…..809—
The Medicare D prescription drugs is a disaster, because of the donut hole, which the just negotiated industry savings plan, does not entirely solve. If you’re poor enough, as some of us, the “extra help” provision is a great service. My generics cost me $2.40, I think, and the brand named products are $6 for 30 day supplies. And, unlike the Walmart $4 for 30 days supply of potentially dangerous imported drugs (see today’s post elsewhere on that)I’m assuming my drugs are safe.
Blessings,
Who cares about competition. Competition got us into this mess. I want health care that doesn’t discriminate against the sick. Single-payer would do that.
Here’s that slinkerwink link.
Thank you very much, Ralphbon.
I see the dementia is already setting in. That means the vested interests against a single-payer system are doing their job.
The most terrifying thing is the “work” part of it. With an economic collapse being averted only by the printing of more paper money to pretend to cover it, “jobs” aren’t going to be providing healthcare to people. Employers can’t afford to cover their people. GM never could, and note the result.
It is why we are not competitive on the world stage. We can’t afford it because of the Trillions wasted giving money to insurance companies that do not pay off as required in the first place.
If we don’t, we own the third world and it’s issues.
Exactly.
And they never will be again, if they expect to be competitive with businesses around the world that don’t have to bother with health care costs (directly, anyway).
Why we aren’t taking this huge opportunity to decouple health care from employment is beyond me.
It’s obviously a failed model not worth repeating.
I agree with you. In our country we expect too much from the labor component of the economy and not nearly enough from capital.
Just one example for the last 30 years FICA taxes have dramatically increased while the Federal Estate Tax has virtually diusappeared. I could go on and on.
perfect description, in a nutshell.
This money issue is just laughable to me.
As I raised yda, they found 700 billion in a little over two weeks when Paulson’s net worth was threatened and he wrote a 3 page letter saying “the (financial) sky is falling.”
Now, when it comes to health care, money is hard to find.
So, they can find 700 billion (spent over 4 months) in less than 2 weeks, but finding 1 trillion to spend over 10 years to help cover 50 million uninsured people, well that’s a road too far.
Bullshit.
Health care costs money — shocking!
Ignore the GOP, pony up the cash and do the right thing by your constituents for once.
(btw, I mean the voters, not the lobbyists.)
Scarecrow thank you for keeping the pressure on for single payer.
and good for Baucus admitting it was a mistake trying to keep single payer off the table
In ‘93 and again this year the advocates for changing health care insurance have negotiated poorly. In this instance, as Baucus suggests, their starting point was too far right and they then compounded that error by negotiating with themselves.
What gets my goat is that (unless I am mistaken) there have been no real Congressional hearings on any of these proposals, in which experts could be brought up to give testimony (and working papers deposited in the hearing procedures). This was the way things worked 40 years ago; but since our Reps have to spend so much time rooting cash out of people to fund their elections, the People’s Work has just got to take second or third place.
If anything needed a series of public hearings, it is the state of our health system and the proposals to fix it.
It is troubling that all the important meetings between Senators are occurring behind closed doors, and only 6 or 7 Senators are involved. It’s not even representative democracy, let alone transparent.
After all, these people are debating how may people who are currently not insured will become insured, who will be taxed to pay for it, and who will benefit or lose from the structure. This isn’t state secrets, or classified information. Those are all matters in the public interest, and I see no justification for these questions to be considered and decided in secret.
You said it: secrecy. So top secret our representatives who are progressives won’t even commit verbally to some kind of a pledge for a public option, damn their sorry *******.
I’m becoming increasingly convinced that the legislation that will eventually come out of the sausage making will take our horrible health care system and make it a little bit worse.
i think that’s a real risk, and why imo it’s so important for us to be engaged — no matter what our policy preferences are — so we get the best compromise possible.
btw, here’s the latest post from the pnhp’s blog warning about some of the possible risks: Paul Starr and Steffie Woolhandler on the public option
i don’t want us to get the best compromise possible. i want single payer. and i want that to be what we put our energy into fighting for, not a “public option” that we have not seen. and i want it to strongly include preventative medicine that keeps people healthy in the first place – less trauma and money all the way around.
and i agree with knut that we need congressional hearings on health care.
that’s what i want too.
On the bearing currently set…
some background on single payer:
oxdown diary from BargainCountertenor: Single Payer Bills in Congress: First Impressions
from physicians for a national health program (pnhp): single payer resources
How to fuck up a public plan: A few years ago we added prescription drug coverage to Medicare, a life-saver for many people. That bill didn’t pass because Congress suddenly became brave and compassionate. It passed because it included a provision that prevents Medicare from bargaining with drug companies for drug prices. We said to pharma, we’ll pay for a lot of your drugs (up to a point) at full price, unlike other countries like Canada that can use their clout to buy from US companies at lower prices. Drugs are a huge part of the cost of health care, but Congress didn’t care because Medicare Part D was turned into a gift for Big Pharma. Now Obama goes on national TV and points out that Medicare/Medicaid will consume the entire federal budget (which is a hell of a way to sell the public on the idea of government health insurance) if we don’t change the way we do health care. Actually, this gift for pharm isn’t an example of how we do health care, it’s an example of how we do government.
If a hearing is held on Capitol Hill and the press is never around to report it, did anyone at the hearing make a sound?
That said, I agree that we need health care hearings.
Emptywheel has a new post up on the front page for our perusal: “Monica Conyers Pleads Guilty”
The one thing that is NOT addressed is those thousands of American’s who are considered uninsurable….. If I walked in with my diagnosis they would laugh themselves sick…… Ya right, lets see what you cost last year? Nearly a million dollars….. this year…… thousands and thousands…
Those of us with terminal diseases, cancer and other high cost disease will again be left either with exclusions or in the dirt…….
This is shameful. We regard very sick people as if they were junk that is no longer needed and can be thrown away. And I think you may have more company than “thousands”.
Listening to the drug people makes some sense because they actually have some utility in the health care system; they explore new products and bring proven stuff to us in a uniform and safe form.
Listening to insurance people makes no sense because they provide no utility in the health care system; their existance drives up costs unnecessarilly. This is because if there was a single payer national public comphrensive health program, there would be nothing to insure,no adverse risk groups to avoid, nothing to nitpick, no insurance company overhead or profit. If my assertions are false, hy do you suppose the insurance industry is so terrified of this discussion
Just so. Private health insurance (except as a limited, supplemental product) is a toxic asset. And the Democratic approach to that sector (I refuse to call it an industry) parallels the Geithner/Summers approach to financial reform: bend over backwards (or I guess more accurately, forwards) to find ways to keep those assets on the books and attempt — against all evidence — to extract limited value from them.
I agree in part, but pharma can also be a “toxic asset”. See my comment on Medicare at 39. I don’t see pharma as good guys or bad guys. They do some great things, but they are profit-driven corporations and only prevented from doing more harm than they do by FDA regulation and fear of lawsuits. They now advertise their most profitable drugs directly to the public, adding advertising cost to the over-all cost of health care. My point about the Medicare drug benefit is that it was done in a way that is analogous to the bank bailout. We use the existence of a problem to turn to turn the “solution” into a gift to those who have powerful lobbies in Congress. They have important expertise, but their lobby and their corporate decisions can be very toxic.
No argument with any of that, and that comes — without saying too much about what I do to pay the mortgage — from a position of experience.
Scarecrow, I apologize for any snideness.
Same here.
Congress is building an iron cross, because they can’t see the daisy.
I may not be the only visually challenged, so could you please help us see the daisy?
Blessings,
Really simple version:
Put eight points in a circle. If you connect them in pairs through the center, you can have either a daisy (eight rays) or an iron cross (four triangles).
scarecrow, 2 points:
1. If single payer is a good idea, then why not apply FDL’s whip tools to help it along? You could whip for single payer to be CBO-scored, for example. Or you could whip for H.R. 676, The U.S National Health Care Act) and S. 703, The American Health Security Act of 2009.
2. This sentence in your post is especially important:
That means that the “hybird” (chimerical?) model is an experiment. But this is people’s health we’re talking about, so don’t medical ethics apply? And when you experiment on somebody, you’ve got to get their informed consent. Can anyone honestly say that the American people have given their informed consent to the kind of medicine that will be practiced on them — when single payer advocates are not only excluded, but outright censored by the White House? I don’t think so.
Single payer, by contrast, is NOT an experiment — It’s been shown to work. That’s why it’s the science-based solution, and one that all progressives should advocate.
Your health is not a commodity.
Your health is not a profit center.
Single payer now.
Cite for NYTimes article cite above, a lot got dropped off, sorry
try: http://www.nytimes.com/interac…..th….
Single-payer not-for-profit universal health insurance and health care works fine in Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, England, Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Japan, New Zealand and Australia. So why can’t it work here? Oh, well, we have a little problem of corporate greed here in America, you know…
Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Japan use the “Bismarck model“, i.e. multi-payer not-for-profit universal health insurance…
My question is what system does Britain use because I hear they have a truly terrible health care system. I’ve heard several real horror stories regarding long waits for needed medical care. Not just waits for appointments; waits for surgeries and for things like pacemakers. Even my doctor told me a story about his cousin’s experience with British health care. The stories are from very distant and unrelated sources, but they all seem to say the same thing: that their system is extremely slow and unresponsive. Whatever it is they’ve got, I don’t want that!
The British seem to (a) like the structure of government-provided care (not the same as single payer), but both parties seem to agree that the system is badly underfunded. So its up to the Parliament to allocate more money to solve the shortages (delays). Interestingly, the Conservative Party has promised to do that and staunchly defends the government system.
Our closest equivalent is the VA system, in which all the hospitals are owned by the government, and the professionals are salaried government employees. When US health systems have been rated in the past, they’ve generally found that the VA system, with some exceptions, has some of the best care in overall quality in America.
The UK (and Ireland, and several Nordic countries) use the “Beveridge system“, i.e a tax-financed completely government run system.
The web page of PBS “Sick around the World” has a simple explanation of the four basic models here.
The money politics that WashingtonDC is awash in do make moving American healthcare off of private/employer based/how much can you afford?/not afford? for profit healthcare to Single Payer Plan a dig in fight between the current regime and any SPP introduction.
The current healthcare regimes fully are flooding WashingtonDC with cash to bring about no change or flawed and doomed change or simple deck chair reshuffle gaming that buys another span of years before WashingtonDC is forced by events to “reform” how Americans get,do not get or are simply shut out based on “for profit” premises.
A direct attack on how the money politics are perverting any “reform” of American healthcare regimes seems needful before much else will be possible.
Clearly the Democrats in WashingtonDC are not performing a whole lot better than the Repugs regarding doing what is right regardless of the money politics.
It is simply disgraceful how Congress awards/rewards itself superior healthcare outcomes but then refuses to open the doors for all Americans to come out at similar points.
President Obama likes to talk the talk. Walking the walk? Not so much it would seem. That he cut off SPP from being at the table is a major blemish on his WH. This is his WH is it not? Or does he sell out on the money politics to the highest bidders? Kinda seems/looks that way regarding where President Obama stands or remains regarding SPP.
Stop the money politics. It is a disgrace how this so called reform is being derailed by who can shovel in the most money to pervert/stop progress.
The U.S. is an oligarchy. No meaningful reform that threatens vested interests is possible. Oligarchies do not reform themselves. They either collapse under their own corruption and ineptitude or they are overthrown by the people.
Do you not see the current debates about bailouts, insurance, the burden of insurance on the manufacturing sector, healthcare, etc., as the beginning of the end of the oligarchy? I’m not sure whether it’s being overthrown by the people, or whether it’s corruption and/or ineptitude. Maybe it’s all three, but I think the pillars on which the oligarchy rests are about to give way. (Delilah only thought she took all of Sampson’s strength when she gave him a haircut, but as I remember the story, he took down the pillars anyway.)
Also if you take some time to spend a bit of time with our seniors in nursing, assisted living facilities you will here one horror story after the next of the abuses of private insurance companies. Old folks selling homes so they can get the care they have all ready paid for, seniors getting divorced after sixty years of marriage so one of them can stay in the home and the other can get nursing care help, private insurance companies sending 80 year old people home with one leg after the private insurance company cut off the money for therapy. Folks take the time to go into these places, lost of forgotten people, lonely, confused and fucked over.
Our seniors and many others do not need more choices they need smart choices.
Third hand newsflash from a writer at DAilyKos: Baucus trimmed his proposal to 1.0 trillion by removing subsidies for the uninsured and underinsured. My first question is “Is this really true?”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..are-Reform
As Scarecrow points out the whole process is secretive so we are not able to proactively resist these manipulations and degradations of the healthcare reform proposals.
Next stop: to whip the Senate
Thanks, Scarecrow for your recent work on the health care issue. I’m hoping that someday in the future the next generation, or the one after that, will express amazement that their predecessors permitted a for-profit system to control how persons with illnesses or in pain were treated, under-treated, mistreated, or ignored. There is something fundamentally wrong with a society that permits some to make millions by taking advantage of their fellow citizens who need the help of doctors, nurses, and hospitals. It can’t be a coincidence that in virtually every major city in the US the tallest buildings are owned by the richest insurance companies; just look for the Prudentials, Hancocks, Blues, and Cignas in your downtown.
Unless Congress permits the establishment of a meaningful public option to serve as the foundation for health care delivery in this country, the insurance companies will continue to twist the system to enrich their officers and shareholders at the expense of the ill and countless employers, demeaning physicians and other health workers in the process.