Paul Krugman’s Monday column laments the fact that . . .
Washington, it seems, is still ruled by Reaganism — by an ideology that says government intervention is always bad, and leaving the private sector to its own devices is always good.
And the devastation wrought by Reaganism is everywhere. From an unconcionable maldistribution of wealth . . .
Remember how lower taxes on high incomes and deregulation that unleashed the “magic of the marketplace” were supposed to lead to dramatically better outcomes for everyone? Well, it didn’t happen.
To be sure, the wealthy benefited enormously: the real incomes of the top .01 percent of Americans rose sevenfold between 1980 and 2007. But the real income of the median family rose only 22 percent, less than a third its growth over the previous 27 years.
. . . to the financial collapse last year:
And then there’s the small matter of the worst recession since the 1930s.
There’s a lot to be said about the financial disaster of the last two years, but the short version is simple: politicians in the thrall of Reaganite ideology dismantled the New Deal regulations that had prevented banking crises for half a century, believing that financial markets could take care of themselves. The effect was to make the financial system vulnerable to a 1930s-style crisis — and the crisis came.
Krugman notes the same ideology still distorts the debate over the public health insurance option:
The debate over the public option has, as I said, been depressing in its inanity. Opponents of the option — not just Republicans, but Democrats like Senator Kent Conrad and Senator Ben Nelson — have offered no coherent arguments against it. Mr. Nelson has warned ominously that if the option were available, Americans would choose it over private insurance — which he treats as a self-evidently bad thing, rather than as what should happen if the government plan was, in fact, better than what private insurers offer.
Krugman thinks Obama contributed to this by praising Reagan during the campaign. But I think it’s much more than that.
During the campaign, I appreciated the fact that Obama often stood up for the principle that government needed to intervene in the economy to forward the public interest and redirect the economy. His first budget is premised on that belief. But now he seems afraid to make that argument.
Now he’s saying that if the public plan really were a "government takeover" of health care, he’d be scared of that too. What is he talking about? Is he telling us that the VA health system is something to fear? That Medicare and Medicaid and SCHIP are all mistakes? Why is he discrediting the foundations of these popular, successful programs?
I realize he’s trying to distinguish the limited public option proposals from a ridiculous rightwing caricature, but it is not helpful to hear the President reenforcing the harmful framing of government-supported health programs. He knows the indispensable element of reforms is to expand government intervention in the insurance and health care industries. He also knows that all of the far more successful, and less costly universal health programs in other nations all rely on even greater government involvement than Congress is yet considering.
President Obama has said the insurance industry’s behavior warrants substantial government regulation and a competitive check to keep them honest. We don’t need another Reagan telling us otherwise.



95 Comments




Look at his staff. All DLC “new democrats”, who are still trying to win back “reagan demacrats”..i dont think rahm emmanuelle is very net savy, and for all his reliance on the blackberry, i dont think (now) that obama is either. we saw what we wanted to see in him, and we saw someone really hip, on the cutting edge, well hes not. I hope they are doing some real (non rahm style partisan) polling to find out how deep the dung they are standng in is
Well thank somebody is making an aggressive case against the insanity that is (so-called) “free market capitalism.”
The elected Democrats just can’t do it, they’re too much in thrall to business-owners who are big and moderate donors. Ironically, even most-of-the non-billionaire business owners could understand and even cheer a consistent Keynesian-Galbraithian-Krugman type line that capitalism is basically good, it just has to be _regulated_ capitalism, not this nonsense that “big business always knows best and should be left alone.” Medium-sized businesses have been screwed plenty by the behemoths, they get it.
i don’t know what obama’s first term is going to look like .. but i do know rahm emanuel’s first term isn’t going very well at the moment .. /s
And we contribute to the problem by allowing the Right to control the narrative time and again. Even at this point in the healthcare reform debate, we are using their words and reacting to their talking points. Why should undecided voters support HCR when we are afraid to clearly state what we want?
Before congress returns from August recess, the left must speak with one voice, and simple clarity, that we are for HR 676, Medicare 4 All, starting in 2010. This will eliminate the “mystery-meat” aspect of Public Option that the left want undecided citizens to swallow.
And, when the right asks how can this country afford this, the answer is, in part, with the upcoming peace dividend we will accumulate as we wind down this eight year Arab-American conflict, 8,000 miles away, that’s slowly bankrupting the US.
Krugman ripped it up on Sunday’s “This Week”
the roundtable is worth the listen and watch
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/
Thanks Scarecrow. Both Krugman’s op-ed and your extension of it are masterpieces.
By the way, per Obama at an August 11 town hall:
We’ve elected a thorough-going Reaganoid. Next he’ll be exhorting us to “unleash the miracle of free enterprise.”
If this video doesn’t get people to see the true agenda of Fox News, I don’t know if anything will. Neil Cavuto basically says Obama’s moral obligation should be protecting America’s wealth, not the health of all Americans.
These people are unbelievable.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2640
The context was that Obama was comparing the Post Office to a public option.
Trouble was it was quite the left handed compliment.
I love my Post Office. I know what he was trying to do, but words matter.
I don’t necessarily think Krugman was arguing that because Obama praised Reagan that’s why he’s foundering on the health care debate. I think Krugman was simply pointing out an irony which is that Obama priased Reagan for being an effective communicator and a person who got what he wanted from the Congress. The irony of that praise is that it is exactly what Obama’s lacking as president. The communication skills from last year’s campaign seemed to have given way to the professorial drone of the office holder.
We ask how can this country afford this?..
Single payer could free up three trillion dollars currently sewed up in health insurance not to mention drug company profits.
I thought Obama’s comparing the US Postal Service with FedEx and UPS was one of his low points so far, as rhetoric goes. What are the Health Care plans of a FeDex/UPS employee compared to a USPS employee ?, or their pensions?
I think many people are now seeing that Obama really has a very limited vision of what American can be. Whatever his vision is, he has the severely wealthy maintainig their strangle hold.
He is the Anti-FDR.
There is a whole generation of voters, from about 45 years old down, which came of age discovering that “it’s morning in America”, Reaganomics, and the government is the enemy. They know almost nothing of earlier laissez-faire economics, the Progressive Movement, the trust busters, the Great Depression, the New Deal, or Keynesian economics. They believe in Reaganism and all of it’s selfishness is next to godliness philosophy. So far, the collapse of their philosophy has not been pressed home with 25 percent unemployment for years and most of them were saved from jumping out of windows on Wall Street by the bank bailouts. I’m afraid it might have to get really bad for a large part of the electorate to relearn history.
In that same interview, Obama said that for decades the Republican party had been “the party of ideas.” But most of those ideas had been Reganesque. And his low opinion of the Post Office and he comparison of the public option to it indicate that his embrace of Reagan include the philosophical as well as well as the rhetorical.
On a positive note; my Bluedog Representative just called for a Public Option. Whoo Hoo!
I had commented on montanamaven’s post , earlier this morning:
Those who oppose true universal health care as a fundamental human right, because it would “cost too much”, could be likened to those who opposed ending slavery in this nation (and throughout the world) on “economic” grounds.
DW
Krugman is excellent. Obama is at his best when he explains why the Republican way failed. I hope to see him change his rhetoric soon and start go at the roots of the dispute.
Krugman:
and
The cynic in me says Reaganism did exactly what it was intended to do all along.
Barack Hoover Obama.
There are Republics today who blame the Great Depression on FDR. The worshipers of St. Reagan will find someone else to blame for the problems of today. For them, learning is not an option.
They just didn’t get to kill off all the gays with AIDS they way they wanted.
Exactly. And the absurdity of the economic argument against healthcare as a human right is that we, who deny that right, pay 70% more of our GDP than to the other 29 OECD nations, i.e., we pay 17% while they pay 10%. And that economic inefficiency is the direct result of our embrace of Reagan and his free-market absolutism.
It almost sound like this is the same old shit and that it may be better to spend your (not you specifically) doing something you enjoy rater than freaking out about shit all the time.
Nelson is right about one thing: I would chose the public option over private insurance for the same reason I have no use for Wal-Mart. I don’t like their practices and I sure as hell don’t want to help them get richer and even more amoral than they are right now. Reaganomics are based on the same philosophy that the insurance companies and politicians like Joe Lieberman have: They think about what will benefit them and the public good is never a consideration. And so many voters mindlessly vote against their own self interests. They conflate their freedoms with “small government”, though most of them whine the loudest when the dogma they insisted on enshrining begins to adversely affect their own lives in a dramatic way. Until that happens though, everybody who disagrees isn’t a “real American” and should “move to Russia” and so forth ad nauseum.
Some on the left would have called FDR himself the “anti-FDR” based on the fairly conservative views he had when he entered office. He was however, pragmatic and willing to experiment. The whole New Deal was a trial and error process, and few of the ideas worked perfectly to the satisfaction of all Democratic factions.
I know the people on this blog are very intelligent and street smart. I am hoping that they can help me solve a problem.
As you know, there are two components to health care costs. 1. the cost of insurance, 2. the cost of the services themselves.
A lot of attention has been spent on #1, but I have not seen any real answer on why the costs of #2 have gone up so sharply over the recent years.
As you know, insurance just pays what they are billed. Even if you paid all cash directly to the hospital or doctor over the recent years, your cost would have gone up about the same as the percentage increase in insurance premiums.
So, why are health care SERVICE costs going up so much?
Maybe someone on the inside, a doctor or person who works in these offices can give us the inside story about why the cost of services has skyrocketed. Why are doctors and hospitals billing more for the same services?
Any economic philosophy that Decider Bush agrees with has got to be wrong.
They’re also taking steps to have Richard Nixon canonized as a saint.
FDR’s about face was the turning point of the 20th century. Of only some of that heroism could rub off on our current chief executive.
Nixon doesn’t look so bad when viewed in the light of today’s Republics.
Disclaimer: I voted for McGovern.
I happen to agree with obama on this one, and everyone here knows I agree with obama scant few instances
I believe there should always be a private option, this keeps the public service honest just like the public option keeps private services honest
for instance, I believe we should never “take over education”, simply providing it and allowing those who want private to do so
this is why we have private tennis clubs, private beach clubs even though the government provides both of those services it hasn’t “taken over the industry”
that to me is the way public health care needs to evolve as well
That corrupt leftist is seen as a blight on today’s Repulican party.
it started as a propaganda scheme to pre-emptively attack the programs that would be necessary to bring our economy back, it’s called “revisionism” and it’s what they do
yup, he needed to realize his policies were flawed, obama should have seen that from history but everyone convinced him hoover was right and not fdr
The intent of Reaganomics is to benefit the wealthy only. The rest of us are fed a diet of abortion, gay marriage, etc. to keep our minds occupied elsewhere so that we don’t notice that we don’t benefit.
WOW … that’s an excellent analogy !
How’ve you been, DW … long time no see
The economics of the healthcare debate are not so much a case to be made between “free market capitalism” versus other ideologies, as it is a classic example of how one deals with market failure. These are two different things, as much as those of us who want to fight age-old (but irrelevant) battles over ideology with the rethug ideologues. One can actually be (as I am) a market capitalist while still advocating for complete socialization of healthcare (yes, I do think that eventually this will have to end up with system nationalization – VA-for-all), although I also recognize that is not the achievable short-term objective.
In healthcare, price elasticity of demand is effectively flat. This means that manipulations of or changes to demand for the good (healthcare) do not lead to a corresponding change in the price of that good. As a practical matter this means that if the good becomes too expensive, people just do without (as opposed to the market providing incentives to increase that good’s supply). Conversely, providers of healthcare are free to raise the price with relative impunity, irrespective of demand. This is the classic case in which “free marketism” breaks down and other alternatives need to be considered. To make matters worse, the American industry has failed to respond to this dynamic with viable alternatives, leading to a good that is priced at 17% of GDP (and growing in price by 9% a year) while only providing 8% or so of GDP in services (compared with our international comparables) – which suggests that market failure has led to an industry that operates with a tremendous amount of waste and inefficiency, far below the industry’s production-possibility curve (efficient frontier). And costs are still growing at 9% a year, which means that, unresolved with the status quo, the entire healthcare system will eventually and inevitably fail altogether, and with it probably the country’s entire free market economy with it. Total market failure.
The hope is the PO will establish enough discipline in the private sector to force it to bring performance of the industry (the real industry, not just insurers) gradually back up to that curve, by having the PO serve as price-setter and forcing the private insurers into the role of industry disciplinarian (as price takers under intense margin compression). If this fails, then the only alternative would be system nationalization/VA-for-all (shift to a Canadian-style system) followed by brutal across-the-board cost cutting. In other words, either the private sector or the public sector somehow has to cut 50% of the total costs out of the system AND keep it there relative to inflation and/or wage growth (why Medicare-for-all/single payer is no longer an option at all).
This has nothing to do with Reagan, free marketism or whether free markets are good or not. It’s about a sector of the economy that is broken and needs to be fixed, where the only tools still left for that fix are a strong public option (which may as it turns be too late already) or outright nationalization.
I can claim the same, it was my first time voting. I was passionate about McGovern. Even though he knew he was going down on election day, he continued to speak out about the immorality of the war, even though he knew that talk was not going to swing voters.
Mr. Krugman points out once again the nonsense from the right-wing.
If the Public Option was so bad why would anyone opt to go into it? Would they not choose the private insurance option which would supposedly give them the right to stroll into their HMO directed hospital, without appointment, and see their private doctor?
Why would the insurance companies be so concerned about such an option? After all no one would want it, apparently?
And if the public option was so bad then they would still compete, and continue to raise costs, etc. Since no one would voluntarily reject “the best health care system in the world”? Would they
But the Insurance companies know very well that a public plan would force them to pare down executive salaries, provide lower costs, better service, and compete for patients that they would, in the past, opt to discard or jack around by reducing benefits at higher deductibles and plan costs. Thats why the abhor it.
A strong private plan creates MORE competition for the insurance industry.
Only if they made these changes would they reasonably be able to compete and say “we do better” than the government. But in the meantime lots of those insurers and Health industry types that are solely into greed would shake out of the monkey tree.
Read Sy Hersh’s The Price of Power: Henry Kissinger in the Nixon White House. That will change your tune.
I know I’m becoming part of a minority here on FDL by not starting to call Obama every derogatory name I can think of, but eight months into the FDR administration, you would have heard many similar complaints about the insipid, aristocratic Roosevelt. Fortunately, there were a large number who stuck with him longer than six months, despite some pretty severe setbacks, failures, and lack of immediate results. It’s been noted many times that he personally couldn’t get completely comfortable with Keynesianism and deficit spending, so he set recovery back by raising taxes in 1937.
thom hartmann is a frigging genious!;
Doing well, Petro, doing well.
And yer own self?
Have not been commenting much of late, having moved house and dealing with the preparation and process of same … but reading when time allowed and marveling at what Jane, Marcy and the rest of you have been addressing and accomplishing.
A sea-change is in the air, the people are stirring, and the relationship between the people and those who would abuse their trust will not obtain as it is.
“Change” despite Obama, is coming, as montanamaven’s post of last evening underscores.
And, Petro, it is wonderful to behold.
DW
You won’t hear any public discussion about any “problems” with capitalism. It’s as if capitalism is untouchable, perfect and off the table.
Since no system is without flaws and weak points, we seen that capitalism – the great engine for creation of wealth, when left unregulated moves toward monopolism and there are plenty of down side consequences for the economy. We are told that capitalism is driven by competition, but unregulated businesses merged than compete and formed monopolies.
Most sectors are now dominated by HUGE corporations which have monopoly practices. The public literally places the high price of this development in:
Insurance
banking
health services
tel com
military/defense procurement
energy
We have allowed holding companies and all sorts of bizarre business relationships – such as vertical integration or consuming unrelated business, stripping their assets and selling them leaving thousands without jobs.
We now have giant corporations too big to fail (and many get in trouble going after obscene profits).
No one will touch capitalism’s ills.
EXACTLY!
Understood why you might want to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, for now.
I do not give him the benefit of the doubt for his letting Blackwater/Xe launch drones against questionable targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That failure of judgement throws into question everything else Obama is doing.
exactly.. and not just the private insurers, but also healthcare providers and pharma (since those are the people the private insurers will go after if the PO exerts enough downward pressure on the insurers’ margins as underlying industry costs continue to spiral). The result would, hopefuly, be an industry that actually works (overcomes market failure).
The insurers and the healthcare industry should fear the PO more than any of the alternatives currently on the table (short of system nationalization).. even more than single payer, which would wipe out the insurers but leave the industry untouched (as evidenced by Medicare’s nonexistent impact on healthcare industry cost containment). Which is exactly why we need the strong PO – with sufficient critical mass (70-100 million initial subscribers) to instantly put itself into the role of industry price-setter.
calling Obama names is counterproductive. agreed.
Your analysis was dead on, but I have to disagree with the bolded sentence quoted above from your conclusion. The rest of the world has realized the the free market is not a panacea and that government can be a solution as well a problem. This generation of Americans has been so imbued with Reaganism that they do not believe that a government can be effective and efficient in spite of world-wide empirical evidence to the contrary, including right here in the U.S.
I’m waiting for Obama to announce that he’s against his own health care plan. That seems like the way he’s heading to me- we progressives must have scared the shit out of him.
I would add that the greatest change is that people are getting off their backsides and taking action for change.
Jane is a key in driving the Progressives to unite and push for all better policies across the board. More people have to get involved and keep pushing, not only Obama but all of Congress, Governors, State Gov’ts, etc.
Killing civilians is what Pol Pot did. If Obama does likewise, he will be called on it.
Exactly ! Saint Ronnie still holds sway over many people, even some Libruls in Canada and his idea that Gov’t is inefficient is total and complete BULL !
All he has to do is to disempower his Gang of Six. They have no official status, except that the White House keeps insisting that they do and implying that their plan is the only one that Harry Reid will put forward.
Perhaps Obama has too much trust in his political cronies and too little in the ability of the American people to understand what is most needful to THEM?
It is irresponsible, in the extreme, for the Political Cla$$ to use the people’s money (the PEOPLE’S MONEY, let us be very clear) to “bail-out” and reward to obscene excess, the very ones who brought economic crisis, and possibly, yet, catastrophe, upon us, while planning to equally reward those who have compromised the health and well-being of those same people; again with the deliberate misuse of the people’s money – money which is not limitless and money which MUST be spent wisely and well.
This brings to mind the cost of wars fought for dubious “purpose”, as well.
The education of the American people continues, apace, SanderO.
Keep talking about the failure of capitalism. The message IS getting through.
DW
he was not a popular president even when in office and most politicians at the time pretty much hated him
yet they have rewritten history to reflect a “great man” because he gave them what they wanted, which was middle class wealth
now you’re sounding like a Republican, with all due respect.
In response to perris @ 56
You must draw the middle-class line at a considerably higher income level than I do.
Here is how smart Krugman is. In his column last week (talking about Swiss system), he says that England has great health care. Nothing wrong with it, just wonderful.
No, Paul, actually in England 8 times the percentage of people wait more than 4 months for surgery than in the US. The actual percentage of people in the UK waiting 4 months or more for surgery is 38% according to a study done by OECD, a very liberal, pro-single payer group. In the US, it is 5%.
That doesn’t even count the time these people had to wait to see a specialist who could recommend the surgery so they could get on the waiting list.
That is cold, hard facts. Certain and not “planted” and discovered not by a right wing group, but a left wing group.
This biggest lie told today is that our system is bad or failing, etc. It actually is doing very, very well with two problem areas.
1. the increasing cost
2. poor folks not getting insurance
Number 2 can be solved with some kind of subsidy or tax credit.
The main Democratic solution to #1–without even doing any kind of hearings on WHY the cost of services is increasing–is some kind of price controls.
As other countries have found, when you engage in price controls, you get rationing. That happens not only with health care, but with EVERY other price control tried in any industry. England has more price control that Canada, and its percentage of people waiting for surgery is also higher–38% versus 27%.
There is a reason the cost of the services is rising so rapidly and it is not the insurance companies. They only pay what they are billed, they don’t increase prices billed.
It might be defensive medicine practised because of so many lawsuits. BUT, the “reform” bill does not do anything about this.
It might be greedy doctors, nurses and hospitals. But, no one has proven this.
We need to find the actual real reason the costs are skyrocketing and fix THAT. How about some hearings on THAT.
And setting prices, price fixing, is not a real, sustainable solution.
Otherwise, the “solution” will not solve anything.
I want to hear a real cause, supported by facts and not bogey men, and a real solution, not just a dope smokers pipe dream of “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if everything were free?”
I appreciate the historical perspective.
links please.
Tell that to the families of the drone victms.
If any Republicans want to hang Obama by the nuts for killing civilians, I’m 100% with them.
I thought we were talking about healthcare. Linkage won’t help us achieve what we need to achieve here.
If you want a fact-based inquiry, then start by acknowledging Krugman never said there is nothing wrong with the UK system.
It’s well known that the system is underfunded, and even the Conservative party has vowed to fix that. Underfunding in a cost-of-service system causes delays or shortages, whether it’s health care or utilities. We would have the same problem here in Medicare/Medicaid.
But the point is to recognize you’re in a regulatory paradigm and not a workable market. Since the insurance and health delivery markets can’t set efficient prices, because there aren’t the necessary conditions for workable markets, then regulators — government — have to do an honest job of understanding costs and making sure they’re covered and done so with decent incentives — a very hard job. The UK system fell behind in that, and delays were inevitable.
In the US we ration via price. People who can’t afford the price get infinite delays — they just aren’t covered. Any comparison between acknowledged cost-of-service systems like the UK and partly price-rationed systems like the US needs to look at the effects across the whole system, all consumers, and not just those who are fortunate enough to be covered at work.
Methinks perris meant that they took away the middle class wealth, thanks to St. Ronnie but I hope he drops by to elucidate his point.
Come on, ghost. That makes any president who governed during virtually any kind of military operations as the equivelent of Hitler, Stalin, Gengis Khan, Vlad the Impaler, Tamerlaine, etc. On that scale, Coolidge would rank as one of our greatest presidents and FDR one of our worst. It diminishes our horror at the actual despotic killers.
Having a strong PO in America will also alleviate the wait times in other countries, whose Health care professionals rush to America for the fatter paychecks offered by private hospitals.
It’s a stupid argument anyway. Would anyone in their right mind send regular mail through Fed Ex and UPS? No. Why? Because it would be extremely costly, as is basic health care through private, for profit entities.
This is an important issue, Petro, often ignored, but it allows us to consider that, ultimately, part of a comprehensive health-care system includes investing in the education of those who who would become physicians and nurses, simply because the capacity of those who choose medicine as a career to “succeed” literally becomes the success of the society which has the wisdom to invest in its future.
Furthering education is always a wise social “investment”.
DW
Exactly right ! Great to see you after so long.
I’ve heard a lot about tort reform only accounting for .5% of the total healthcare costs. But the defensive medicine practiced…the multiple tests ordered for CYA purposes are not part of that number. Doctors would just order what they needed if they weren’t practicing so much defensive medicine. Texas has just proven that if you have tort reform, you can cut the overall price of medical services considerably because malpractice insurance costs go down…
I dunno. Dean Baker often comments that the medical profession works to limit competition by limiting the ability of non-American professionals from practicing here without extensive recertification. It’s a pet peeve of his.
Consider Scarecrow, that both “realities” are true. They are not, after all, mutually exclusive, in fact, they can and do co-exist very “happily” together within America’s most “exceptional” health-care system.
DW
This really isn’t true. What doctors tend to order can be highly idiosyncratic. It can also be heavily influenced by when they were trained. A lot of this has to do with the vagueness about what the best practices are or should be. If best practices were clearer, following best practices standards should be an adequate defense against malpractice.
Well said, Hugh.
In a rational and reasonable society, sometime after the Age of Stupid, “best practices” will be the nature and means by which physicians stay up-to-date and one of the ways through which the “system” continually improves itself.
DW
Here you go wigwam
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/24/32/5162353.pdf
By the way, the wait times only have increased in Canada since this study was done.
I think the “price rationing” red herring would prove to be baloney once looked into for real.
Meaning, the percentage of those actually “rationed” would be quite small. Meaning, the percentage of people actually needing surgery not actually getting it because of price. Yes, potentially, a group of people could be delayed, but likely very small in actual people.
In the UK, it is a certain 38% of people who for certain needed surgery right then that were waiting.
Again, the insurance company bogey man is false; insurance companies fees only reflect the increase they are being charged by doctors and hospitals. The “price rationing” is a bogey man. Doctors from other countries affecting wait times in those countries by coming to practice in the US for higher paychecks is a bogey man (price controls ALWAYS bring rationing).
(one person here had the idea that the rationing could be solved with just increasing the budget in those countries for health care–a near unlimited budget, meaning whenever more people needed more surgery, you just increase the budget to keep the wait times low and stable; budget being determined by how many people need surgery, not limited. Of course , controlling the overall cost of health care is one of the stated goals of health care “reform.” Obviously, if we just put in the amount of money needed for everyone to get all that they want, everyone would be happy–until the bill arrives.)
The only real argument for this ‘reform’ is that “We want free health care because we think we ought to have it.” And, whatever logic, twisted facts or whatever is needed to get to that free service will be done.
Yes, in my pipe dream world, we should all have free, nice houses with swimming pools and free food, organic and fresh and free bicycles to get around and certainly, I ought to have free clothes. Clothes, housing, food and health care are the basics of life right? Why not free? Is food any less essential to life than health care? In fact, free food should come before free health care as you cannot have good health without good food. And, I pity those poor suckers who have keep working so I can get my free stuff. I’d let them get free stuff too and not work, but then who would make my free clothes or build my free house?
Let’s get to the real root of skyrocketing costs and solve THAT. Where are the hearing to delve into this? (not that I trust either Democrats or Republicans to actually stage even handed, open minded hearings)
Progressives, liberals, Democrats and even moderates ceeded the field to the right wing over 30 years ago. They thought that “liberal” values and principles were self-evident and “common sense.” Meanwhile the right wing went about co-opting the legitimate media, creating a media of their own with radio and television access, developing belief tanks that twist legitimate research into pretzels to justify their preconceived ideology, and repeating over and over again their anti-government rhetoric. Is it any wonder that today large swaths of the American public buys into their bogus ideology? The right wing has been working since the days of FDR to transform the U.S. into their twisted vision of utopia. Well the U.S. has arrived and now the left is trying to play catch up. Much work to be done to lift the blinders off so many Americans who willingly vote against their own self-interests because the far right has done their homework to convince them it’s really in their best interest.
Excellent, spot-on synopsis, Bluetoe.
DW
Bingo! You’ve explained why America’s health outcomes are so superior to Britain! It can’t be just the water. Go back to your books and read Uwe Reinhardt. You might learn somethinhg instead of just pulling facts out of your arse.
It’s his theme du jour. I have no doubt he’ll compare Obama to all of those people before it’s all over. I guess he was motivated by all the Hitler references during the TH meetings, figured it would be a good way to bash Obama on the blogs.
Hey cregan, have you received your check from United Health Care? I’m still waiting for mine. Do you know what’s going on? I thought they were supposed to pay us on a weekly basis. By the way, really like how you make long declarative comments with nary a linky. That drives the loony libs crazy.
SD!
Good to catch you on a thread.
How be the tigers and yourself?
Hey, DW!!! How are you?
We all be fine. It’s been an interesting couple weeks. Got 2 new ones, one of whom is still hiding, but eating. Click on my name and you’ll get the 3 cat posts I’ve done. I couldn’t get Feurae interested in the waterbed until the new ones showed up. Now he’s on it all the time. Haven’t figured that one out yet.
Caturday!!!
Love it, SD.
Feurae and Thelonious say paws up! as well.
I am doing well, very bust for some weeks, moving house and what not.
Newest “adventure” is that youngest daughter has gotten a dog for her birthday.
A bright little Yorkie-poo who thinks he can climb as well as any cat, scales the 24 inch high “pen” and has tried, unsuccessfully, so far, to climb the 48 inch fence which surrounds the back yard. (Wonder of wonders, here in Pittsburgh, the neighborhood is on flat terrain.)
The cats detest him, thus far, telling me that he stinks and reeks of dog.
Patience is.
;~D
UHC has been stalling on paying your claims too?
One thought Regulate them like public utilities. No 26% and up profit. Profit is limited to a modest 3 to 5% or what ever we deem reasonable for public utilities. The excess profits go back to policy holders.
That will help the situation a lot I suspect.
We do not refer, wmd, to our legitimate due as “claims” it is, simply, and most-honorably, fee-for-service.
We’re perfesshunol contracktors. And very good, even “exceptional” at what we do.
So there!/sssssssssssssnark
The tigers will soon straighten him out. If he’s real young they’ll actually teach him how to clean himself.
Back to the cesspool.
Namaste
I’ll pass that info along, there’s some who will be very happy to hear that, SD.
Good to see you.
Namaste
WTH are you talking about? SO far Obama has got everything he asked for and then some. People have been trying for 60 years to get health care reform, whatever makes you think it’ll be easy or quick?
I swear to god, if Obama shit cherries you people’d complain that they weren’t peaches. I guess you’d rather have McCain and Pailn?
Yes, I agree. the benefit of tort reform is not lower insurance premiums for malpractice, but deleting all the unnecessary and wasted services done defensively to cut off the lawyer at the pass.
As some are asking that the insurance get out from between doctor and patient, I say get the lawyers from in between doctors and patients.
Sorry, there Knut, those facts were pulled from the arse of a very liberal, progressive group called the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. The study is even cited by the Canadian government.
So, whose arse have you been looking up? Reinhardt’s?
Gosh, Bluetoe, maybe you didn’t see the link. Go back and re-read. (also, see post above) You also seem to be good at snide comments– a real master. Your parents must be proud.
I take it you don’t want a reasoned discussion, only one that agrees with you.
As for the health insurance company you mention, well, the facts are the facts. Maybe you can prove to us that the overwhelming bulk of income the insurance companies take in is not re-paid to cover the bills they get from hospitals and doctors. Otherwise, the max cost savings from eliminating all insurance company admin, salaries, profit, rent, telephone expense, etc. would be about 15%.
Sorry to pop your bubble and bring you back to the real world (”No, no, I am sure we can keep having trillion dollar deficits as long as rich people will pay the bill.”), but the movie is finished and the lights are on.
If Obama really wanted to bring down the cost of health care,
1.why doesn’t he enact tort reform
2.Why not make individuals pay taxes on their expensive plans provided
by their employers. This would encourage these people to opt for
higher deductibles and reduce cost.
Instead the lower income folks are subsidizing the wealthy.
Could it be Lawyers and unions lobyists?