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A common theme runs across many of the news stories on health care reform. America is losing the debate over the legitimacy of government and the value of honest discourse.
The conservative ideologues who have done more than anyone to discredit government and dishonor the truth are winning that battle but hurting the country, and doing it with witting and unwitting help from the media.
Today’s NYT front page contains a sympathetic portrait of a middle-age couple in Georgia who are concerned about the wife’s illnesses. Listening to the health reform debates, they’ve become convinced that the government is planning to limit/ration the wife’s ability to get the treatments she needs.
The husband, anxious for his wife’s well being, is moved to attend his local Congressman’s townhall to express his anger over the government’s takeover and apparent indifference to his wife’s suffering.
He told [Congressman] Bishop that his wife of 36 years had survived breast cancer through early detection and treatment, and that he feared that her care would be rationed if the disease returned.
“She’d be on a waiting list,” he said.
“This is about the future of our country as we know it,” Mr. Collier warned, “and may mean the end of our country as we know it.”
That’s all we see on the front page. The message that government in general, and the Obama Administration in particular, are out of control and want to ration care is loud and clear . . . except it’s completely false.
When we pick up the story on page 10, the Times elaborates on the husband’s political views and then identifies the source of his misinformation:
The Colliers are committed conservatives who have voted Republican in presidential elections since 1980. They receive much of their information from Fox News, Rush Limbaugh’s radio program and Matt Drudge’s Web site.
But the article doesn’t say their fears are misplaced nor does it explain the couples’ news sources are notoriously unreliable on this or many other subjects. Instead, we learn the couple have already been jerked around by their insurance company, so even though their own experience is a basis for some of the actual proposed reforms — which the Times doesn’t note — they don’t have that information or the necessary context in which to view the government’s proposed regulations in a more favorable way.
To continue the misdirection, the Times has a separate story at the bottom of the same inside page, which makes no mention of the previous article. There we learn that "policy experts call fear of medical rationing unfounded." In other words, everything the couple in the prior story believed was false, and their media sources misled and lied to them.
So the front page part of Kevin Sack’s story was completely misleading; it should have said, right from the beginning,
Conservative media sources, including Fox News, Russ Limbaugh, and Matt Drudge, have been persistently misleading people about health care reform proposals. As a result their listeners, as the experience of a Georgia couple illustrates, have become victims of unjustified fear and needless anxiety, fed by the false impression that the federal government is planning to deny or ration their health care.
These conservative media efforts are provably dishonest, but despite having the facts repeatedly corrected and the distortions denounced by numerous experts, the conserative media continue to repeat the false information, leaving those Americans who rely on the sources even more anxious and confused.
It’s not two stories, NYT; it’s one, and your front page badly misreported the main point. That’s partly why polls show a majority of the public (and 75 percent of Republicans like the couple above) incorrectly believe the government is planning to ration their health care. Why is this so difficult?
More of the same:
Atlantic, James Fallows critiques this NYT, article describing how Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, has been smeared and his views distorted ("Bioethicist becomes lightning rod for criticism") by . . . right wing/conservative sources. (h/t DeLong)
Think Progress, Coburn tells weeping victim of broken health care system that government isn’t the solution
Crooks and Liars, Jonah Goldberg compares VA pamphlets to Nazi Eugenics
Media Matters, Fox News, NRO, Limbaugh on "Death Book" smears
Brad DeLong on WaPo’s Hiatt vs WaPo’s Kristol.
78 Comments
Debate? What debate? And I mean that snarky and seriously, both, SC. *G*
Debate in the MSM, non existent.
Debate between constituents and electeds?
Almost non existent.
What debate that IS held aloft as dialogue is crafted and manipulated and controlled.
Ann omits most of the reality and the truth the NON MSM and progs have tried to shine light on.
I’m feeling a bit down after Matt’s interview earlier today . . . don’t mean to take it out on you, but your post offers a chance to put the ‘debate’ issues in a smaller perspective, with respect to the BIG picture I see at the moment.
You points above are WELL taken, and not to be dismissed in any manner in their context, it’s your usual good work!
But, as you, and powwow and wigwam and so many others have so WELL pointed out since this reform effort began, there’s been a complete and utter VACUUM coming from our dem leaders EARLY ON to call what the ‘alleged’ protests and points are, paid propoganda.
And since what, May, earlier, original teabaggers at the first of the year? The MSM ran with the ball, created the illusion of people losing care, and now there are people genuinely AFRAID that the lies and propoganda are true!
All because our dem leadership failed at every point, the dem’s we elected to the WH and to Congress, they FAILED to tackle the response in an aggressive manner, much as they failed when they kept crying for ‘bipartisianship’ and kept getting kicked in the nuts from the Pub’s.
Deals were struck, VERY EARLY ON, as Matt Taibbi suggests in today’s earlier interview with FDL.
Obama, Pharma, And Healthcare all agreed to NOT pass real reform, and Pharma and Healthcare would funnel money to dem’s, not pub’s.
We MAY get a halt to previe existing conditions, but that means NOTHING to those who HAVE preexisting’s, and HAVE had for the past 5 years, or who are gonna GET preexisting’s between now and when the ‘reform’ begins and MIGHT have been saved if the reform started IMMEDIATELY!
Because many of THEM will be DEAD by ‘13, when any of this shit goes into effect!
Given the issue of ‘we’re pretty fucked it seems’, any analysis of the media’s part in all of this (well documented by many for a LONG time now) seems a bit anti climatic.
As always though, your post is solid, detailed and chronicled, and spot on.
Thank you for all your work.
How are we going to get past this huge sellout?
I think it’s clear where we’re headed. We’re screwed on real reform regarding drug pricing, premium pricing, forced insurance on those who can’t afford it, and who knows WHAT more.
The WH sold out real early, deals were/are done in back rooms, NO public transparency on the processes, no govt regulation or controls imposed on the healthcare industry. Just a cash cow of forced cost heaped upon those who can least afford it. And watered down subsidies, if any, for those who are hurting the most.
Where do we go from this scenerio? The short term? I see NOTHING for the short term.
Long term organizing and resistance and prodding of electeds? I wonder if THAT will yield any results, given what we have now, to show for all the work progs have done?
Won’t the ’system’ begin to leverage the progs we’ve rallied over the next few years, in ways unknown and unseen to the publlic?
HOW DO WE GET WHAT WE WANT! NOW!
-Feelin Skeptical, Since Matt’s Interview, Today.
the town hall meetings that I have seen as of late on C-span they have been more civil and lots of folks coming out in support of the public option
although I saw Ed tonight and those scare tactics seem to be working
Yes, I hope its a new trend in better informed people coming out. they need more coverage.
We may be losing but we haven’t lost yet. And it’s not hopeless either like 42-3 or something, more like 27-17 in the third quarter.
some of the town hall meetings airing
http://www.c-span.org/
we NEED TO STORM THE BASTILLE….that is all
I wish I could tie Obama to a chair and make him watch videos of Anthony Weiner.
I must say the Ds are doing their usual fabulous job at debunking the nutcases.
I caught a few minutes around noon PDT, on CNN and MSNBC, of a white woman, about 65+, very forthrightly confronting McCain on healthcare issues.
He responded with a slew of mis-direction cliches, but it was quite interesting to see him make a fool of himself in front of a national audience.
Well Done, mid-sixties white lady!
scarecrow. I usually agree and appreciate what you write,
But i think this analysis by you is just wrong. the sidebar story right next to the main story, says that there IS NO rationing. the story portrays a GOOPER gone mad, driven so by concern for his wife and getting his news from RW tv, radio and website.
it says in not so many words that he is NUTS.
are you ignoring that?
are you ignoring that everyone who reads the times understands what it means to get your news from drudge, limbaugh and fox?
are you serious with this post?
I’ve been thinking all day about Matt Taibbi’s response to wmd1961 in the talking healthcare thread: “The other step is probably boycotts of some kind, maybe tax strikes. There has to be some kind of drastic consequence, because this whole deal proves that simple voting within the current parameters doesn’t work”. How about instead of boycotting them – we over use them? Those with good heath care coverage, in solidarity to those without coverage, could start making multiple doctor appointments for minor or non-existing reasons, demand second, third opinions for routine things, start stocking up on medications, or tie up member service reps with non-important questions about what is or is not covered. Do everything possible to spend the insurance company’s money. I’d be willing to pay a few $15 co-pays if it meant forcing my insurance company to dole out a few hundred or thousand bucks each time. Sure, it may cause a boom for the medical industry, so what? It might put a few nurses back to work. We can show our “mass support” by implementing our own stimulus package and make the insurance industry pick up the tab. If they refuse to cover the sick, then they’ll have to pay for the healthy. What are they going to do? Deny me for excessive office visits? Just a thought….
Whatever.
But thanks for rethinking your approach.
All the pieces you mention are there, I agree, but it’s how they’re displayed.
Lots of readers will see the front page, get a sense of where the story is going — it’s the theme we’ve been seeing of lots of people concerned — and move on, without following to page 10, where, once you read all the way through AND read a separate story (which you might not see on line), you get a very different impression from what you got on the first page. Front page Editors know this. Journalists know this. You don’t bury the lede, and you especially don’t bury the lead for one story in another story. And since these journalists know, from the second story, that misinformation if very high on a matter of large public importance, they should be aware of how their formatting will be seen.
I’ve got an anecdote from a friend who is trying to get health care for her children here in California, she’s unemployed and not receiving child support.
She went to the county offices to apply at around 3:00 in the afternoon. After waiting for 15 minutes while a clerical/case worker (CW) finished a phone call she was told she’d need to fill out a form and come back. She looked at the form and asked if she could just fill out the form right then and turn it in in 5 minutes or so. The CW got exasperated, then allowed that yes, she could fill it in right then. 5 minutes later my friend turns in the form and asks about the process going forward. A bit oh hemming and hawing, then she’s told that there is supposed to be a decision in 10 days. She asked the CW if that means she can count on a follow up by 10 days, the CW allows that they don’t always meet deadlines and could she please leave because she needs to close up for the day in 30 minutes.
call this the DMV experience. And while it isn’t completely typical it does happen enough that people do see government workers as incompetent and unmotivated to provide excellence.
NB – I went to the same offices to see about getting a prescription refilled since I’m uninsured back in April. And I received very competent service; while I ultimately went to Planned Parenthood’s clinic for care the CW/Nurse I saw was motivated and quite pleasant and answered my questions with alacrity and precision. The contrast in user experience can’t be laid at attitude and expectations as I went in thinking I’d feel somewhat humiliated by the process; I left feeling impressed with the professionalism with which I was served.
We need to counteract the perception that my friend’s visit exemplifies. I’ve been pointing to competent government action in the wildfire that we had recently – nearly 8,000 acres burned, but contained with minimal property damage and no loss of life. Somehow that competence and professionalism is expected for firefighters, but not for social safety net workers… like I said we have a DMV model of inefficiencies about how some bureaucracies work. That makes for uphill battles whenever we want to expand safety nets.
Unions can help with this by promoting excellence within the rank and file over seniority and time in grade.
As long as Stabler, Montana or Plunkett are handling the ball I’ll feel better.
*G*
For all the folks close enough to go, Steny is having a Town Hall on health care on Sept. 1 in Waldorf, Maryland. Would love a first-hand account.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your suggestion, but I think the system is essentially a fee for service, cost pass through approach. So if we overuse the system by demanding more services, the providers bill the insurers, and the insurers aren’t going to eat those costs, they’ll stall, deny as along as they can, try to bill you, and eventually pass them through in higher premiums, larger co-pays, and you/I will run up against their maximum payouts.
That said, I agree with what I think is Taibbi’s point – that conventional politics seems ineffective and we’re all struggling to find something to shake things up. Jane’s strategy of setting up a progressive “block” in the House seems to be having some success. Clearly, something more radical seems called for, and you’re right to be thinking about it.
Sounds like my experience at the court house in California trying to file my own divorce. I had to go back nine times. Each time I got a different response to the same question.
Stupidery.
In a metaphoric way, I concur heartily.
Massive public displays of civil disobedience.
“Blue People’s Flue” days.
And continued pressure on elected pols, and those TO be elected.
Reform legislation to rein in rampant capitalism which has become nothing different from rampant political corruption such as brought USSR down.
Alas, now it’s the whiskey wishing wistfully while I wander wontonly. ;-)
Again, SC, sorry . . . was down. Still am down, from Matt’s thread. What a mountain to climb.
I guess, that mountain’s been there since long ago, and we’ll ALWAYS be climbing that mountain. Still, I’d like to see a tram up HALF of it before I end my time on this rock. *G*
First time I went to doc in over 2 years. Wanted a prescription for an epi pen as a precaution for guests as I just got a beehive. The treatment I got at a private service pretty much apes the DMV model. It isn’t unique to govt services.
Is your last name Hoffman?
Cuz that’s just pure to the bone inside crazy and beautiful.
“Steal This Book.”
*G*
Srsly, lovely thought, I enjoyed reading it!
“Grey Panther Revolution-Part Deux.” *G*
Common sense is winning this debate.
Common sense tell us that the Laws of Supply and Demand apply to a government run public option, just as they apply to any other commodity. Common sense tells us that rationing will occur. There are no two ways about it.
A government plan that seeks to expand access ad coverage with limited resources, while promising to cut costs without raising taxes leaves the government with very little choice. All supporters can say to refute this truth is that, “Well, the private insurers ALREADY ration care.” The LAWS of supply and demand are concrete and do not change.
Basic Economics, not politics.
http://www.investopedia.com/un…..omics3.asp
Common sense also tells us that centralized power and control in the hands government bureaucrats will lead to inefficiency, waste and a loss of freedom. Look no further than the USPS or more recently, Cash-for-Clunkers to get a glimpse into the mismanagement and inefficiency that awaits those enrolled in a public option.
Americans have always been leery of Big Government. It is part of our national character. The founding fathers knew it, and so do all but the most partisan, ’statist’ Dems.
It’s that simple, really.
If you want to balance out the ledger, you can visit my local cable company, Comcast. Or AT&T.
Rationing of medical services in the U.S. has been occurring for a long time already, but only in the private part of the system, which is rationing out poor and middle income people.
We know any BigMedia outlet will do this on any issue. We know that they’ll “report”-regurgitate any talking points big-name Repubs spew without any scrutiny whatsoever, or very little and usually hidden deep within the stories. We know they’ll promote false equivalencies between sides when none exist. We know they’ll say Dems are fractured, whether true or not. And so on….
It’s been completely predictable for years/decades now.
So rather than being surprised, we should not expect any fair coverage on any issue, and should develop our own strategies to work around these propaganda machines for BigMoney.
Since they are so predictable, just like Repubs, we can bait some traps for them to step into, like Obama has done many times, and is doing right now. Outside of growing the audience in the New Media, “giving them rope to hang themselves” is about the only thing we can do to combat this stuff, but fortunately for us, it’s not that hard to do if you just step back for a minute and develop some strategery.
I just posted a diary on corruption in America, including corruption in the media, if anyone’s interested. It speaks to this post’s point.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7547
Scott Ott further defines the real facts and legitimate concerns of the American people.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/p…..mon-sense/
We know better than to bite on this.
s
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dear gawd……….they’re baaaaaack.
While that may be true, the simple fact remains that most Americans are happy with their plans and their care. It is also true that many do not trust the federal government to do a better job than the private sector. Americans want reform, but NOT in the form of a, vague,overreaching, public option.
Resist the temptation, brothers and sisters!
KO talks about zombies and they show up here!
what does “common sense” have to do with selling YOUR governmnet to corporate Lobbyists. Any argument can be “simple really” if you ignore all the relevant facts and information.You libertublicans or free sovereign suckers, or whatever you are, dive in with this completely irrelevant cold war right/left “statist” “big gumbment” bullshit and run your cake holes for a few paragraphs and answer questions no one asked, with broad, non specific, factless proclamtions and out of context “historical” reference, that you have memorized.Do you want YOUR country run by the insurance industry lobby? or the energy industry lobby? because thats whats filling, and will continue to fill the vacuum left by the “statist” (look it up) republicans’ 30 year long destruction U.S. government Authority- not idiots with placards and pistols. You are a tool.
Like it or not we’ve got the “government can’t do things well” meme from Reagan, and effective counters to it are needed.
People frame Comcast or AT&T as businesses that offer poor customer service – service that will either improve or cause the business to fail. Some will believe that the invisible hand will fix things in time, that competition will force better customer service eventually.
The HR3200 public option is an attempt to let competative forces work in health insurance. Framing it as pro market/consumer choices helps it overcome some of the stereotypical “Gummint Bad, MmKay” knee jerking.
And this is exactly WHY you are losing the debate.
My self-control is a little wonky, though.
Hey Mary!
why do you talk to these people?
shoo mofo, you’re using up perfectly good bytes
Oh I’m sure to these trolls their behavior makes perfect sense… since they are, for the most part, corporate lobbyists themselves (or their paid shills).
Track the trajectory of surveys on those who are happy with their current medical reimbursement system, rather than with the level. Then compare the ones who are happy with whether they’ve been sick recently. The satisfaction you point to is eroding rapidly.
I’m sure the U.S. govt won’t do as good a job as they do in France, U.K., etc., where medical care costs about half per capita as in the U.S. with better outcomes (longer life, less infant mortality, etc.) But Medicare and VA seem like a good start. Much more efficient than private plans, in the sense of much less overhead, not to mention no need to generate profits for shareholders.
Hey Newt!
There is only one thing worse that feeding, and that is sinking to their level.
Do not go there, please.
Eli is upstairs!
Baby Steps
You yielded to temptation and fed the troll.
Big government did a fine job putting out the Lockheed fire. It does a fine job providing health insurance for retired people. Government can be competent, professional and excellent.
Ask my son, he worked for the government as a sergeant in the USMC.
I wonder how many who posted comments attended a Town Hall meeting and spoke out, faxed a MemCong or called one.
MemCong or Viet Cong?
I attended a town hall, spoke with people outside about what HR3200 is and isn’t, and spent wuite a bit of time trying to understand where the Obama/hitler poster by civil discussion with them.
I’ve called and emailed my representative many times and will be on a telephone town hall with her later in the week.
Right now I’m headed to farmer’s market, then going out for a beer.
Consider what was shoved down our throats.. .
The Iraq war, Patriot Act, FISA, TARP, AfPak, a poorly crafted Stimulus bill just to mention a few, some of these were pushed though in days as emergency legislation.
There was no public debate on the social bali-out programs for the ultra-wealthy, or if we agreed to give up some of our constitutional rights. There is no debate with Eric Holder over weather or not he will prosecute crimes of war and peace.
I have to say It looks like Obama deliberately pushed a vague health plan out there. If it passes he can still deal away the public option. This approach made ripe fodder for demagogues to manipulate and scare the crap out of people who are already scared. In turn Obama’s team turns his minions (us) out to brace against them – calling them the brown shirts and such. That is demagoguery as well!
We should be repudiating Obama’s team and aligning ourselves with the teabaggers as much as possible. We have to stop belittling them and help them understand that this is class conflict, not Rep. v. Dem and that we are on the same side.
We need to call an exterminator, we got a pest problem going on here these days.
That experience happens because they have to determine if you’re qualified by whatever criteria to receive healthcare.
When a system exists in which everyone is qualified, the DMV nonsense goes away.
um…doesn’t one of the proposals involve taking medical payments from 75% to 65%, same effect as rationing.Anyway the idea that this a government proposal is ridiculous, it is corporations writing legislation to game the system. Theoretically a government run program could work well, but this charade doesn’t have much to do with representative government.
I hate to break it to you but BOTH parties have sold out to lobbyists, but none with more audacity and less transparency than President Obama. Or didn’t you hear…The president, Rahm Emmanuel and Max Baucus have been making back room deals with big pharma and hospitals in excahnge for support and advertising! BTW big ad $$$ going to Axelrod’s (ex?)PR firm.
The centralization of money, power and influence cannot be broken by advocating toward greater government control over business and labor.
Who has filled you head with such nonsense. Try thinking for yourself.
I never claimed democrats HAVE NOT sold out?? where did you get that? i didnt mention “democrats” even 1 time.”Try thinking for yourself?”
stop presuming to think for me
BTW, im on the record dozens of times with exactly what i think of obama’s sell out and the blue dogs. btw btw, NO ONE was talking to you.
gawd i am sorry. i REALLY need to non-respond to the freepers when they drift in, but this isnt talk radio. we arent here to spin BS into conspiracy webs.i have been working for better health care most of my adult life.
“Common sense” tells me, a nurse, that the “Laws of Supply and Demand” should not supersede the needs of sick and helpless people, as though they were some type of gadget, that we can easily ignore. Any civilized society that refuses to take care of its sick, old, and needy does not deserve to be called a civilized society. If America is indeed the richest country in the world, we can hardly make the case that we are unable to find a way to accomplish what much poorer nations have been able to do – provide health care for its citizens. You reveal a belief in the lack of scarcity – a belief that in order to take care of one person, you must first take from another. I believe that we are intelligent and inventive enough to find solutions to any problem. That includes finding a way to provide health care for all of our citizens. And lest you misunderstand I am not advocating that people abuse the system, and abdicate personal responsibility for their lives.
Anything can be deemed ‘efficient’ when it runs deficits year after year and is dependent upon taxpayer dollars to fund it in perpetuity. Did you ever take an econ class?
As for the VA, our soliders and their families deserve nothing but the best for the sacrifices they make for the benefit of us all. But I can guarantee (that darn LAW of supply and demand again) that they would see the quality of their care diminished as the demand for services would far exceed the supply.
The problem we have with citing stats from smaller countries with more homogenous populations is the same problem that you have when comparing any large pool of data to a much smaller one. The larger the pool of data, the more variables there are that influence the final outcomes.
France is roughly the size of Texas. So try that for a more accurate comparison.
We are not refusing to take care of anyone. The system is in seriously troubled and in need of serious reform but putting the federal government in control will do nothing to increase efficieny, curb fraud and abuse and it will simply replace insurance industry bureaucrats with government technocrats. What looks unnecessary to one bureaucrat will turn out to be a critical procedure to someone’s grandmother. Top-down decision making — which the administration wants more of in Medicare — can’t avoid this conundrum. Health care/insurance reform needs to be centered more on the individuals and their unique needs. Giving patients/consumers more freedom and flexibility, perhaps breaking the link of employer-based health insurance, will do more to stimulate competition and innovation than any government intrusion into the system that taxpayers simply cannot afford.
Just wondering what happened to the many responses post # 26?
Forgot to mention in the post:
Texas — leads the nation in the number of uninsured.
http://www.dallasnews.com/shar…..ce428.html
France has universal coverage, at only two thirds the per-person cost as US, but better care overall.
http://hubpages.com/hub/United…..ealth-Care
Also see:
http://www.commonwealthfund.or…..isons.aspx
http://www.commonwealthfund.or…..iency.aspx
“Common sense tell us that the Laws of Supply and Demand apply to a government run public option, just as they apply to any other commodity. Common sense tells us that rationing will occur. There are no two ways about it.”
Poppycock. See other countries with successful government run or regulated hc. Yer talking out yer Reagan Book Butt. It’s been PROVEN a failure, since he started his crap in CA as Governor. Ruined CA, ruined the Nation.
“A government plan that seeks to expand access ad coverage with limited resources, while promising to cut costs without raising taxes leaves the government with very little choice. “
More poppycock jive.
Government plan WAS to raise taxes on $250K or more, and having the govt run it means NO 30% overhead, NO private bonuses and profits. Balances the books, one fell swoop. Now, and then.
I lack the patience to rip the heart out of the rest of your propoganda.
You do this just to goad us, don’t cha? You that bored in your life, and lack the confidence of your beliefs you have to CHALLENGE the change we call for?
Meh . . . . begone. There’s a bridge that’s missing you under it, somewhere. In 23% Fantasy Land.
I failed. Mightily. Still, I always feel better. *G*
I failed, Sister Mary.
HEAL ME SISTAH!!!!
I’m not sure what yer callin me on.
But the government IS in bed with the corporates.
And that’s why we are NOT getting what we want.
Yer handle is wierd, so’s yer comment . . .
But hey, have another one, on me.
I LOVE chattin all night long with . . . mookies.
Its not the Gov’t getting between an individual and the doctor that is driving these people crazy, its that it will be NonProfit and that is what is driving the Puppet Masters crazy.
Anybody have a dead tree copy of the NYT that they can open and count the number of insurance ads in it? I’ll bet it’s a bunch. Our for-profit media is too beholding to insurance companies to quit them.
Yup. I picked up a copy in a Starbuck’s today and only got through the front page of that very article before I had to move on to my next task, so I had no idea how the article ended.
But I did have the impression that the NYT writer was trying to figure out where this man in Georgia was coming from, and he definitely made a point about the fact that this man has surprised his family because they’ve never known him to speak out publicly.
I don’t fault the NYT for this as much as I fault:
— Fox and other cable news that is sensationalistic
– the way some of these electeds set up their meetings
– the way that information has been presented to the public: which committee? which plan (there are at least 5, but are there more)??
This lends itself to emotion because there is so much conflicting information.
Which leaves the healthCo’s to flame the fires.
Even more depressing than the health care part of Taibbi’s article is his assessment that the US government is simply dysfunctional and incapable of responding to a crisis. We saw that with the half-assed stimulus package and now with health care.
Everyone set your cynicism clocks forward; apparently if you thought government was totally corrupt and good for nothing but channeling tax money to Dick Cheney’s friends — you were being naively optimistic. It turns out they can’t even keep the system going at the cost of losing their own gravy train.
It really is going the way of California. The whole country.
Bin Laden will be happy. He won everything he wanted from his war with the US.
I can’t help wondering if McCain would have done better not because the guy knows anything about anything but because the Dems would have bent over for him whereas the Republicans just act as spoilers with a Democratic president. Gridlock + crisis = disaster. Oh well.
Can we stop calling the founding fathers geniuses now for coming up with this half-baked idea of so much separation of powers that nothing can get done? They didn’t do it to prevent corruption (and obviously it doesn’t), they did it to democracy-proof the government against bursts of populism. They made it so no sudden spike in public feeling could sweep some loony lefties into power (as had just happened in Rhode Island at the time) and get reforms passed. Mission accomplished. No way can the US government do anything in a hurry. It’s amazing it lasted this long.
Well that cheered me up.
I saw that too. She did a great job of making a fool out of him. Of course, it wasn’t that difficult.
Wow. My computer is going beserk. Getting a new one later this week, tho.
#9 gannon . . . I saw the same townhall meeting as you, and I also noticed that McCain completely side-stepped the lady’s question about why McCain, who’s had GOVERNMENT-sponsored healthcare all his f-ing life!, doesn’t want it extended to everyone else. He totally ignored her!! and went into his Foxsnooze talking points mode, repeating the same tired, old garbage.
Of course, now the weepublicans are spreading the horse manure around about how reconciliation is a Democratic tactic to “undermine” the Constitution . . . which the weepublicans used to ram thru their Reagan Revolution agenda — but that was OK — it’s just when the Dems try to use it, that it becomes un-American . . .
And, of course . . . the MSM will emphasize the weepublican angle, and completely ignore reality — again.
I think you mean government sells out to special interest
We haven’t sold anything
Yes we need to take care of anyone.
The problem is that countries that have a government run
program are running out of providers to take care of it’s
people. Their just isn’t the incentive to provide
care to people especially in the rural areas.
In other words, everyone has a ticket but no bus to catch
Woke up this morning and read through this thread and I was SO IMPRESSED with the quality of the argument that I registered and logged in for the first time just to tell you.
Bravo. Much better reader experience than usual. Quality smackdown of Indie’s “Common Sense” argument. Brilliant.
I hope we bring the question of devaluation of government again. This is absolutely central, just as the debate over civil liberties four to five years ago was central. It isn’t just a matter of ’socialism’ versus the private sector, but the whole devaluation of the concept of democratic rule, because the alternative to what we have now is some form of non-representative authoritarian state.
I read a lot. Recently I have been going back into the history of the Weimar Republic. Now, there is a huge obvious difference between now and then, but there is one similarity. When the Right lost power, it did everything it could to degrade popular confidence in representative government, and succeeded enough to permit a fascist government to seize power. It could happen here.
Frustrating discourse by generating a fog of lies, misinformation, and hysteria is an attack on our democracy from people who don’t give a damn about our institutions.
Taibbi is right. And so is Jane. And so are Montana Rebel Dems. So are the Rebel Docs. We need a multi prong approach. Jane’s approach is still Congress centric i.e. appealing to Congress for redress of grievances and holding carrots. But I think the Congress is irretrievably compromised and probably blackmailed. So it will be up to citizens’ revolts both active and passive.
I read somewhere that the Chilean people pushed back against the “Shock Doctrine” imposed on them by the Chicago Boys and Pinochet passively. I’d like to find out how they did it. Of course, it took 30 years.
The Shock Doctrine is now out in the open here with the privatization of military functions by Blackwater; charter schools instead of public; keeping our health care privatized; etc. We are Chile 1972.