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President Obama appeared on five talks shows this a.m. to discuss health care and other national issues. On ABC’s This Week, Obama deined that imposing a mandate on the uninsured to purchase insurance was a "tax."
Instead, he said that those who don’t currently have insurance have a responsibility to do so.
“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” Mr. Obama said. “What it’s saying is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for anymore.”
Of course, the mandate does impose a tax, and the only question is how much each income group will pay. Did anyone ask?
Obama also told CBS’ Bob Schieffer that various taxes that would be needed would not violate his promise not to raise taxes on those making less than $250,000 per year.
"I can still keep that promise," Mr. Obama said, "because … about two thirds of what we’ve proposed would be from money that’s already in the health care system and just being spent badly."
"This is not me making wild assertions," he continued.
On the Public Option:
Obama was asked on Univision’s Al Punto whether the public option was dead. [Marcy has the Al Punto transcript.]
"I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead," Obama told Univision. "I
think that it’s something that we can still include as part of a
comprehensive reform."
According to the New York Times, Obama suggested that those who are demanding a public option needed to get beyond "ideological" positions so we could get something done.
As he did during a speech to a joint session of Congress this month, the president spoke favorably of a public insurance option to inject competition into health care, but he did not say it was an essential part of a bill. He urged “folks in my own party” to move beyond that debate and focus on the broader aspects of the health care overhaul.
“Everybody’s gonna have to give some in order to get something done,” Mr. Obama said, speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” He added, “We’ve got to get past some of these ideological arguments to actually make something happen.”
We’re still waiting for videos and transcripts to confirm, but if the Times is correct, Obama just told public option advocates to get lost. Expect the response to be furious.
[Update II: After watching the NBC MTP video, Obama's statement about getting beyond ideology was general; it was NOT make in specific reference to the public option.]
Update
From CBS’s Face the Nation, transcript.
And from ABC’s This Week:
STEPHANOPOULOS: You were against the individual mandate…
OBAMA: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: …during the campaign. Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t. How is that not a tax?
OBAMA: Well, hold on a second, George. Here — here’s what’s happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average — our families — in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what I’ve said is that if you can’t afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn’t be punished for that. That’s just piling on. If, on the other hand, we’re giving tax credits, we’ve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we’ve driven down the costs, we’ve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you’ve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that’s…
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…
OBAMA: No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase. Any…
STEPHANOPOULOS: Here’s the…
OBAMA: What — what — if I — if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, that’s not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I don’t want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then…
STEPHANOPOULOS: I — I don’t think I’m making it up. Merriam Webster’s Dictionary: Tax — "a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes."
OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam’s Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you’re stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what…
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, but…
OBAMA: …what you’re saying is…
STEPHANOPOULOS: I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase.
OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I’m taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we’re going to have an individual mandate or not, but…
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it’s a tax increase?
OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.
183 Comments
“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” Mr. Obama said. “What it’s saying is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for anymore.”
Wow…I am sorry to be such a burden you heartless bastard!
Don’t you all see now? Don’t you get it? Obama has never been for stealth single payer. He’s not for broadening public health care at all. We would be getting the exact same POS legislation under Mitt Romney. What has happened to the Democrats?
Well Obama mentioning the “r” word (responsibility) makes me glad I voted for him. It’s time we all pull our own weight. Sorry…it’s got to be that way. There is no Santa Claus.
I plan to watch the rest of Obama Bowl Sunday but I wish he would cancel his scheduled appearance on the Weather Channel. To me it just isn’t presidential.
“ideological arguments”? WTF! How the f*ck did we wind up here? I could have sworn we won the election last November.
To suggest that people are irresponsible because they can’t afford health insurance is heartless and inaccurate. Obama is wrong on that count. And leaving out the public option is simply a gift to the insurance companies ( the current rationers of health care).
Oh please. Americans in the lower 80% of income are making the least share of income than they have since 1917. No one is arguing against responsibility. But the playing field is tilted against the majority of Americans.
Time we pull our own weight? I’ve been pulling my own weight for my entire adult life. When the f*ck has somebody pulled the weight of the middle class in this country? Do tell.
The pundits keep insisting the public option is dead … and that liberals will throw in the towel in order to give Obama a “health care victory.”
How is it possible DC pundits still dont get it???? The base has had ENOUGH…. If we dont get a strong public option, the Democrats will look back at the 1994 midterms and think those were the gold ole days.
The base is watching, White House. Dont misread us because we are not marching in the streets (yet??). You campaigned on a public option, now its time to show leadership and whip those blue dogs in line.
If the WH fails to step us and deliver a robust public option, well, like I said, the 1994 midterms will look good in comparison to what happens in 2010. You cant really expect us to continue to vote for democrats, who, once elected, turn into centrist republicans once they’re in office. I didnt vote for a centrist republican … and I wont vote for a democrat again, since they cant be trusted to honor their campaign pledges.
Enough really is enough!
Tinman1967: i haven’t had health insurance in almost 7 years. i freelance when i can find work. i never make more than $400-500 above my rent every month, and out of that i have to pay for phone/internet/cable/FOOD so i can at least continue to do freelance. i’ve parked my car for the past 3 years since i can’t afford insurance/registration and ride my bike for necessary errands. i am 52 years old. how exactly would you like me to pull my own weight and buy a mandated insurance policy? what would you like me to give up? i’ve given up everything i possibly can.
i have an answer for you though-don’t worry. after spending the last 25 years watching 5 family members die after lengthy medical battles-WITH insurance mind you-i made a promise to myself i would just die at the first major illness. i won’t go to an ER, i’ll just sit home and die.
have a nice day Mr Personal Responsibility. my life hasn’t cost you a red cent.
Obama wants yall to eat a shit sandwich
tinman1967….For sure, It’s time to face facts! “There is no Santa Claus” and sure as hell the Healthcare monopoly isn’t!
President Obama will not fail US!
Two thumbs up!
You’re going to force me to contribute to obscene health insurance company profits, Right.
I paid a major carrier over fifteen years and never had a claim. Then they dropped the whole healthy group after sucking our wallets dry.
Fool me once but never again will I provide blood for the leaches.
Well as a retiree paying $300+ a month for Kaiser I believe that I am pulling my weight but if the new plans cause my past employer to stop offering coverage to retirees and I have to pay $1400 a month for the two of us guess what? Yep!! not yet eligible for Medicare and my pension/SSA is around $2100
Just yesterday I felt hopeful about Obama guess that is over.
Obama = worse than Bush.
Really.
Seems to me that opposition to the public option is more ideological than its support. People support the public option for pragmatic and political reasons: it’ll work and it’s popular. It’s the opposition that’s ideological (specifically neo-liberal ideology).
Having insurance isn’t going to keep anyone alive of course.
I’ll think about the rest of what you said. No one should die simply because they have no insurance and certainly many do not (the ones that go to the emergency room).
Still, if premiums are affordable then mandating it should work. There would have to be many kinds of plans.
You missed something………President Obama says affordable!
Ummmmmmmm, Take the cap off FICA!
This usually begets silence………
I sat there and starting yelling at the tv…..and I worked my butt off a year ago for Obama/Biden ticket
How patronising of him to call people like me ‘idealogical’ because I strongly support a strong public option.
Time to get patronising about people who stand and search vigilantly for a mythical middle to cover their ‘idealogical’ preference for corporate America
Personal responsibility for insurance companies and their executives too? Like rescinding insurance because someone didn’t report that they had acne? Is greed personal responsiblity?
And how about he take some personal responsibly, as President, to stop throwing our tax dollars into the ME sandtrap and we’ll use that money to pay for our premiums. Then man up and start cutting the trillion dollar defense and unintelligence budget, then maybe we could easily pay for single payer without playing around with drones in another undeclared war,buddy.
The emergency room does not provide long term medications or care.
Amen
I agree.
Looks like we gave Dubbya a third term.
Amen as well.
Didn’t you get the memo when Reagan won? We get to pay for everything. The wars, the tax breaks for taking our jobs out of the country, the minimal infrastructure they bless us with, and in the last year we get to make up the private losses when the wealthy gamble idiotic with other people’s money.
Oh, and to Obama: So doing the one thing on the table that actually has a chance of keeping insurance premiums down is ‘idealogical’. Well, Mr. President, I hope you like being a one term President because a lot of the people paying attention aren’t going to be voting for you if you pass Mass Care on a national level. To paraphrase Whoopi Goldberg, this bends the middle class over the table and takes them without a smile.
And, Sir, no matter how you want to weasel it, fees on the American Public are taxes. I realize that you want to call it something else, but demanding that I pay a private company some fee for a service that is inadequate is not only a tax, it is the first direct one to our rulers. So congratulation. The only bright spot for this masochist will be the fact that it will be taken to court, and we can thank thirty years of the Federalist Society interjection into the nomination process for the fun of watching Roberts’ court decide between government intervention or supporting the owners.
The emergency room is for emergencies. They do not provide care after the initial visit. Around here you go to the emergency room for a broken bone–they send you to someone else.
People with problems that don’t call for an emergency room visit, such as an unexplained growth or lump, are being left out in the cold if they have no insurance.
Sure you can go to the emergency room, but odds are, they’ll send you to a private doctor. Will he accept you as a patient knowing you have no insurance? Doubtful anymore.
I only caught part of the ABC interview but the sense I got is that not only is the president still taking every opportunity to bash progressives but he is moving the bar for what constitutes an “ideologue.” It used to be people who wouldn’t accept anything less than single-payer. Now it is people who insist on a public option.
I don’t really care if the media refer to it as a “tax” or not- but the mandate is probably necessary if we are going to demand that insurance companies cover everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions….
Without a mandate, the smartest course of action is to wait until you are sick and THEN go out and buy health insurance- which would make the whole program impossible economically.
The govt. needs to provide adequate help for those who have too much income to qualify for medicaid but who can’t afford to pay the whole nut for health care premiums–but without a mandate- I don’t see how we get health care reform.
Yep!
Looks like we have been screwed. America has what, a few years left now? Since he is purposefully bankrupting every one of us that isn’t rich, it does appear that we have been sold down the river.
I am pretty disgusted that I voted for someone that knows the difference between a lie and a fact, and is pretending otherwise.
Public option or nothing Mr. President. You aren’t going to lie to us again.
I have a conservadem senator from Missouri Claire Mccaskill and she even support’s a strong public option. I’m not sure but i think it’s gonne be pretty unpopular to bail out blue cross blue shield.
The public option is a promising idea- although untested as far as I know. I support it. If it fails, then the other options are:
1) The government sets limits on what insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, etc. can charge. This is the French system and we KNOW it works.
2) A massive nationwide “co-op” that offers non-profit insurance to the nation as a whole and which could become a single payer non-governmental syste. I actually like this idea, but it is also untested as far as I know.
I live in the state that has Romneycare. Individual mandates without a public option do amount to a tax. In Mass we either get insurance or pay a $900 a year penalty.
We do have subsidized plans ,but they only cover low income people
As a self employed person I make too much to qualify for subsidized care ,but still can’t afford to buy through the open market.
Mandating that we all have coverage without providing a public option that we all can access ,is a tax
No reform without a public option !!
well Grandma was from Austria …wonder if thell have me?
Channeling Kevin Kline in A Fish Called Wanda…
DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!
i didn’t mean to imply they died because they had insurance. i meant that i’ve seen the folks in my family grapple with insurance companies, grapple with what treatments they could and could not afford, and spent years and years in hospitals and convalescent homes, running through sizable personal finances in addition to their SS/Medicare/Private insurance. of course people die. i will die, just without the long agonizing and frustrating battle. but if i’m fined for not partaking in an insurance plan i will never use, i will be homeless as well. that doesn’t seem to solve anything, to me.
It was typical of George Stephanopoulos to focus on whether a mandate to purchase something is the same as a tax. I think most economists would call it that, but the broader question is who should pay how much? The debate in Congress is about how the Baucus bill allocates the financial burden, as between those who must purchase and those who would pay the subsidies — but George only wanted to play gotcha over the definition of a tax.
A mandate to purchase insurance could be redesigned as a mandate to pay taxes, for which you/everyone get(s) health care, and in that system the question would again be, who should pay how much in taxes.
Snuff saw it a campaign promise broken, but the public policy question isn’t that, it’s about the allocation of costs.
I thought you were making plans to go to France.
no-YOU missed something. out of the $300-500 dollars i make above my rent every month, whatever is decided is affordable for me will be too much. i have zero money left every single month, sometimes for a week or more. i couldn’t squeeze out even $10 for health insurance if you held a gun to my head—which it is starting to feel like might happen.
A mandate will destroy the artisan and craftsman community in our country. I met more artisans yesterday at a national event who mentioned they barter their talent for basic healthcare, dental care and vision because they cannot afford health insurance.
As long as politicians are pimping legislation by and for the Medical Industrial Complex above all else… which is exactly what Obama is doing in his old familiar Reaganesque manner… they desrve to be tossed into the loving arms of the teabaggers and their million dollar corporate pundits.
If the uninsured are costing “900 dollars a year”, why are we talking about mandates which will cost many thousands plus thousands more in high deductibles? Something really does not add up there!
looking at every possibility…..looks bad here
This week, Harvard released an updated study on how many deaths can be attributed to lack of insurance translating to lack of health care — the 2003 numbers were about 18,000; the update from Harvard put it at 45,000 per year.
I work with a lot of docs. None of them are GP’s so their average income is pretty high…between $400 dnd $500K. To get health care to the point where it is affordable, all these guys would have to take a pay cut of probably 80%. Either that or they would have to see about three times as many patients. I think neither option would be acceptable to them.
Next you’ve got the hospitals. They too are used to getting $15 for a box for poor quality tissues and mega bucks for a hospital room. Again, if they reduce their prices they make less profit. Another hard sell.
Then there is the insurance companies and Pharma. Again, two more hard sells.
On top of everything else is nervousness over how those already with insurance are going to fare after major change.
In short how does anyone think you can change an entire industry overnight…or ever for that matter. Especially one some rich and powerful.
It looks obvious to me we’re not going to see major change with whatever bill finally gets passed. But maybe we get some change.
I agree with rwcole that the mandated coverage is necessary.
is this not ridiculous
politicians run wild/amok
What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance.
Spoken like
John McCaina true Republican.If Obama *really* wants true health-care change, he should go for single-payer. Never work, you say?
How about he calls Mitch McConnell and Boner into the WH and tells them – “I want single-payer and you do *not* want my administration starting a full-out, balls-to-the-wall investigation and prosecution of the criminal activities of Dick Cheney and the Bush administration, all of which activity, incidentally, occurred on your watch. The chips will fall where they may.”
“Wanna Play?”
MURDER pure and simple
the ugly AMERICANS
It’s very challenging here too. Best of luck with your plans, though. But, who will take over your animal resue? Maybe your community Needs You.
So YOU have the answer of the final BILL?
Clue me in, how much would you be mandated to pay …if anything?
Without the mandate, you have the equivilent of allowing people to wait and buy fire insurance AFTER their house burns down.
I wonder how come 63% of MDs prefer a PO and an additional 10% favor single payer?
i will train students at a local university,and set up a paypal,till we get somebody with some balls to help average americans
I’m in a similar situation , I need avery dime I earn to cover my expenses there is no extra money left over at the end of the month.
This is why I feel we must have the public option .
I also already pay higher payroll taxes than most people ,so I sure don’t need this added burden
insurance against healthcare is TOTAL BULLSHIT
HEY mR.FUKSTIK oBAMA ….YOU WENT TO COLLEGE and LAW SCHOOL
ON other Peoples Money
Seems as if the final subsidy program should look something like this:
For families of four:
Those making less than $30K should be covered by medicaid
Those making over $80K should pay the full cost of their health insurance
Those in between 30K and 80K should pay on a sliding scale starting at 0% and ending at 100%
The payment would go up about 2% for every $1,000 of income.
Copays and deductibles should be affordable- but there should be some.
That may be off plus or minus 20% but it should be fairly close
I have to insure my car and my house ,and now my body !
So, Scarecrow, please tell us how we will be able to have universal coverage without a mandate. Public Option or private…. the more people participating the lower the rates. The Baucus plan leaves a lot to be desired but it is just the first bid. I am on Medicare as of last month. Love it. My participation is MANDATED. Again, please tell us how we would have affordable coverage without everyone participating.
Were Obama’s lips moving?
Thought so.
The public option would not be free- it might be just a little less than private insurance.
Executives of the financial institutions who got trillions of your dollars are sitting back, hearing Obama talk of personal responsibility, and laughing and laughing.
There needs to be insurance cheep enough (based on income level) so all can afford it.
I guess just about all of us are facing the prospect of spending all the assets we have in our final years. You have a plan to avoid that. Still, what if you have a stroke and can’t really act on your plan? My plan involves a gun but what if something happens suddenly and I can no longer pull a trigger?
Nursing homes are expensive but who wants to take care of old, sick people for free? It’s really ugly work. Is the answer federally run nursing homes for all of us? Perhaps, but there is still a cost that someone will have to pay.
Part of the problem is modern science can keep us alive longer than we really need to be. Quality of life is non existent.
They commonly say we run up 90% of our health care costs in the last six months of our life. If we had something like assisted suicide available to us I think many would take that option. I would (I’ve spent too much time visiting people in nursing homes)
They may actually have this in Oregeon.
Gee, that’s what Boener and Squeaky Graham said too!
oh! for once the Stephanopopulappus asks some tough questions!
whether Obama can wriggle out of the word ‘tax’ or not, the folks being hit with the mandate are going to hate it!
the health care system now is so broken that it makes good economic sense to opt out if possible, and save $500 a month or more if you are young and healthy.
Obama brings up auto insurance being mandatory . . . hmmmm that is an argument against his position, because if you don’t like the car premiums, ditch the car! take the bus, ride a bike, walk, order the ottoman on Amazon, you have choices! A mandated tithe to the rich, greedy insurance cartel, just for being alive in the USA? craaazy! (D) pwagmatists should scramble to defeat this, because Obama is going to scuttle their beloved Democratic Party electorally with this colossal sellout.
Who would have thought that it take Obama’s election to get John McCain’s healthcare plan implemented?
I like that.
It’s a mystery. For my docs the percentages are zero and zero.
uhm yup…he can run with Palin as a Gooper in 12
2012 Obama/Palin…big shit sandwhich
A public option should cost a lot less
Wouldn’t removing the middle man from the transaction dramatically reduce the cost of the service
In a public option the government pays only for services you receive ,
because if you don’t like the car premiums, ditch the car!because if you don’t like the car premiums, ditch the car!
May I also point out that my car has never caused anyone’s kidneys to shut down, as mine did 3 weeks ago, resulting in a three-day, uninsured, three day stay in the hospital.
Though the room service was pretty good, the ambiance sucked, and I have no fucking idea how I’m going to pay for it.
Are you eligible for medicaid? It sounds as if you should be- in which case no problem.
The study that this came from had 2000 respondents. Quite significant considering the universe. Did you get your data while visiting with them at the country club?
Docs like getting PAID. If everyone’s insured, the docs get paid for everything they do- not just 70% or whatever it is.
Universal coverage HAS to appeal to them.
Irony is not dead.
I say EVERYONE DROP THEIR INSURANCE! Why TF not? Ins companies are ripping off everybody anyway! Now THAT would be a movement to end ALL MOVEMENTS!!
makes too much sense
keep paying endlessly for NOT going to the doctor
Hey mister frozen food section, of course the room service was great for you. Ha. Next time, call me and I’ll show what really good food tastes like.
How are ya, jayt?
The estimates I’ve seen are that private insurance companies spend 70% of premiums on overhead, administrative costs, marketing, and profit…
A public option would still incur administrative expenses- so the total potential discount from private insurance is probably something like 20%- less- but not that much less.
Instead of say %600 a month for a family of four- the expense would be $500 or so.
so sorry pal,take goodcare….cranberry juice too ok?
So my question is why isn’t this what Obama said to the banksters, instead of giving them trillions?
I believe I read (on this site?) that the uninsured “free riders” are only responsible for 1.7% of the increase in insurance premiums. If that is true, why would the government need to resort to near Gestapo-like tactics to force everyone to purchase health insurance? Cost wise, it saves only a tiny amount and will likely cost the government much more to enforce! Also, to the extent that some low-income individuals will require subsidies, why should taxpayers pay for a private plan, with its 30% plus overhead and profit, when the same individual could be covered by a public plan with a 3% overhead cost? Sorry, this all smells like a bailout of the health care industry.
We really should be discussing the mandate, not the public option, as the controversial portion of the Baucus bill. Historically, government has collected taxes, then distributed them for the public good. Sometimes the tax revenue ends up being distributed to corporations, but NEVER in our nation’s history has the government decided to remove itself as middle-man and just force a transfer of income (up to 13%!!) DIRECTLY from citizens to corporations.
a family of 4 can not get insurance for 5or 600 dollars
PULLLLLLLLLLEAZE
feeling great now, thanks, I got released at 10:00 A.M., and did a hearing at 1:30. And now that you mention it, there *was* something different about the food… *g*
All is well on the left coast?
Medicare is optional, not mandatory. You have to sign up for it to receive benefits. If you don’t want them, just don’t sign up!
TIME TO SEND IN ALL T SHIRTS BUMPER STICKERS ETC
Hope is now a rope…to hang ourselves with
Wow. Just wow. Talk about elitist. What is affordable to the wealthy is not necessarily affordable to the folks living paycheck to paycheck, who literally have NOTHING else to pay for insurance. And as Casey has noted, even $10 for insurance is unaffordable.
Well…instead of burning bras and draft cards… if this goes through, we’re going to have to start burning insurance cards…
what if everyone pays a percent of income, rich or poor into a healthcare pot and everyone is covered with mayo clinic healthplan?
I’m a vice chairman of the Democratic Party in my county. One thing I will say is Democrats are sadly mistaken if they think our base blindly follows and will support Democrats in any election. Our base is more independent and educated and you can not feed them a shit sandwich and claim its roast beef like you can if you are a Republican. Republicans have it relatively easy. All they have to do is say, “Ya know? This legislation might be against your self interest but we all agree we hate the gays, and the other minorities!!!” and their base supports it 110%. Not so, with the Democratic Party.
The Democratic Party also doesn’t take kindly to having our leaders who we fought for, and worked so hard to elect trash us and call us “ideologues” for simply doing what they promised to the BASE who got them there. Republicans understand that. Again, they do what they want and then throw red meat to their base by further humiliating progressives.
Democrats better wake up and realize we don’t sit around, like Republicans watching FOX NEWS to tell us how to think! I’m a vice chairmen of my county party in a very red area, so I see the difference more than most. Believe me, we don’t get Democratic voters in this area of Oklahoma unless they are smart enough to overcome the propaganda they are fed on a 24/7 basis which, of course, is another problem. If progressives want to start winning, we had better fight the overwhelming propaganda fed to wide swaths of this country. If they don’t have a computer, all they ever hear is FOX NEWS talking points and Rush Limbaugh on their radios…
Yes, sir. Was hot, hot, hot again last week. Waiting for autumn to fall. Just made camping reservations for Thanksgiving, up at Pismo. So, can’t really complain about the left coast weather too much.
PS, how to pay? Maybe you might consider chasing a few. Not really. Just kidding ya.
obama to struggling 50 ,MILLION AMERICANS
DONT GET SICK….hehehehehehehe snicker
Raven, if you’re still here. Want a barf bag?
Which county?
The only point I was making is that a 20% discount off of private insurance costs isn’t a lot.
Say the family cost is $1,000 per month for private care, then the public option might run $800 or $900.
No, it’s the Whitehouse that had better wake up! We’re not going to buy insurance from any of the current insurance industries. If we’re forced to purchase this bullshit, the Obama administration can start sending out ther resumes as soon as the bill is passed! It’s that important! I’m not buying this! Consider the Baucus bill dead!
Another difference between mandatory health insurance and mandatory auto insurance (which you only need if you own a car): auto insurance is LIABILITY insurance – it does not cover you or your property, but covers others if your 5000 pound plus “weapon” damages people or property! Driving is a priviledge, not a right. Do we really want to change “right to life” into “priviledge to live” (as long as you pay your Blue Cross premium)?
The mandate is only needed if we make it illegal to discriminate against those with pre-existing conditions.
If anyone can get insurance anytime regardless of health, then the smart thing to do is to not sign up until you are sick. That could lead to barely anyone paying premiums but everyone getting treatment. It can’t work without some protective mechanism.
It is OK with me if the bill survives as long as 90% of it is eliminated and substituted for in the markup.
I’m not sure how your emergency room works, but we just got a bill for $5,000 for an emergency room visit ($2,500 for the CAT scan to see if the concussion caused swelling). I really don’t understand talk of “free” emergency room service…
I pay taxes and I resent the government taking that money and subsidizing the vultures in the insurance industry.
If that’s the outcome I’m all for it. What the President needs to understand is that WE UNDERSTAND that a mandate without the public option and no triggers is essentially a gift to the very people who have created this system. It’s nothing more than a gift to the industry and we’re not going to stand for it.! Perhaps it’s time that someone besides Howard Dean points this out! The administration might also want to take a look at the polls for the public option and how the numbers dip when it’s not a part of the bill!
Zing!
I too am troubled by the “ideology argumens” phrase this Sunday morning. I guess (10) MILLION have to visit Washington without the Hitler and African witch doc images. We need to make President Obama’s inauguration look like a local church pinic. ENOUGH
Memo to WH: The reason your base is NOT going to throw in the towel on the public option is simple: (1) you campaigned on it; (2) we dont have to rely on the DC pundits for information anymore because, in the internet era, we have access to unfiltered-non-corporate information. Hooray for that!
If I didnt have access to the internet, I might really start to believe that just my friends, family and I are for the public option. These corporate pundits keep insisting, over and over again, that the public option is dead … and that the base, ultimately, will surrender their “hope” for a public option and will not let Obama “lose” on health care reform.
Without a public option, I dont want this “reform” because it just amounts to a giant transer of $$$ from the US Treasury right into the hands of the insurance companies.
That’s not what Obama campaigned on, that’s not what I voted for, and I will not be back in 2010 if the WH doesnt get that basic “ideological” principle.
How the WH can so seriously miscalculate the mood-shift from 1994 is beyond me. WH, we will NEVER support a bill that doesn’t include a ROBUST public option (not some watered-down, meaningless thing you label public option).
73% of over 2,000 physicians surveyed favor a viable public insurance option, so I guess they’re all just ardent ideologues too.
Vote no on health care reform without a public option. Screw them all.
You dont need to argue with ignorant assholes. let him go “back to watching football”
I would suggest to the president that he needs to get beyond his ideological position of
listening to Rahm onlykissing GOP ass while dissing his left wing base who got him elected in the first place.And the “responsibility” talk about buying health insurance is really off putting. I could see Bush saying something like that.
The Massachusetts law has been pretty much a disaster, but Obama thinks people who say that are “ideological”.
Those 50 million people with no health insurance are a bunch of goddam ideologues, according to the president.
I guess someone needs to ask Obama if he expects everyone to pull their own weight and pay for their health insurance, then how much is he going to increase the minimum wage so everyone can pay for their health care costs and still keep their heads above the waterline?
Obama is finished. I hope he meant it when he said he’s willing to be a “one term president”, i suspect that was just braggadocio, he seems full of that really. Time to BLOW UP the anti war movement big time. This asshole doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on any issue
What you are describing is a single payer plan, an idea which many of us support.
As for Obama, there are two things always to watch out for when he speaks. The first is the massive discrepancy between what he says and what he does. The second, as today, is the difference between what he says and what he could have said.
What it sounds like to me is that Obama is pursuing his original game plan. He has organized a huge sellout to the insurance industry, drug, and medical companies and is calling it reform. Meanwhile he continues to think the bill that comes out of reconciliation will be his bill. Remember those conferees are going to be picked by the Congressional leadership and/or already support an Obama style plan. Then he looks to stuff the bill down the throats of the House and Senate with simple majorities.
Damn the torpedos,full steam ahead, Jane.
Obama needs to stop trying to fame the public option as an also ran. You’ll notice that he doesn’t bring up co ops? I suspect it’s because he knows that co ops are bullshit! There is only one way to get real competition and that’s with the public option. He’s alredy stated that only about 5% of the population would purchase it. It should have been sold that way in the first place. If we’re not goig to get what the 65 and older can get, which is a public option then, we’re just not interested! Why are we being discriminated against? The Dems will get their asses kicked if there is no public option. If there is, then the blue dogs might get their asses kicked but, it would be deserved and it still wouldn’t put the GOP back into the majority!
I still have trouble with any mandatory insurance. In the ’70’s in Washington State, it was not mandatory to have auto insurance, but you had to post a bond if you were in an accident (to cover liability). Why are all our other options being eliminated? What if I have saved enough for my health care costs? Still have to pay for insurance? What if I’m willing to die (say I’ve already got something terminal and untreatable)? Still have to pay? What if I live far from any doctors (think small cabin in a distant wilderness of Alaska)? Still have to pay? Income from barter (no money)? Still? Are all our personal choices being eliminated to keep insurance companies happy?
Spot on! Perhaps signs that say “No Mandate for 46 million new custoners”
Now that’s a sign that’s worth reading! Or this one “No Public Option, No votes in 2010 and 2012! or this one….”No Donations until bill is passed”
I don’t think it’s necessary to call anyone an asshole. Especially one who said I’ll think about the rest of what you said in their comment. It’s more than most commenters here say.
No more privatized health care. No Co-opts. No Public Option. I am with Rep. John Murtha and HR 676 Single Payer, and a better Medicare. Damn, I did not make the list.
Yes Medicare is mandated, but the supplements are not. If you cannot afford the sups, then you don’t buy in or get that portion of the care.
“this administration” isnt interested in polls about policy. only in personal popularity. you would think they should understand that issues are whats driving the other ones, and that bush was well liked, before he wasnt.
I should add that the best chance we have to stop Obama is if the Senate refuses to invoke cloture on their original bill before it goes to reconciliation.
Rahm and Obama has to protect the blue flea dogs. at the expense of the base. From what i can see we only have about 85 total real Democrats between the senate and house.
i believe what he said was something about agreeing with obama about it “being time to stop paying” for the uninsured..i think you would have to be an asshole to blame people for NOT having something that you are claiming to be “paying for”.. yeah thats an asshole
I try to stick to saying what I really know. I also try to stay away from name calling. Maybe it works differently for you.
he is abandoning each of the “bottom line” principles that he said, over and over and over, “any bill” that “reaches his desk must have”..the guy is used car salesman.
ohh..”name calling” bothers you? well fucking with the lives and economic well being of 47 million people bother me.
Try this perspective, the “public option” being devised is NO option. Rather it is a plan that can only produce failure, it is a plan that is intended to produce failure. That failure will be used to leverage the destruction of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Tell your representatives that should they not support single payer, they need not return from Washington, ever. Tar, feather and a rail await should they try. As stated above, healthcare IS a RIGHT, not a privilege; accept no substitute (and forget 2nd best).
(edit)Take care of those bedding with blue dogs, they carry blue dog flees
emergency rooms must be obama’s version of “affirmative access.”
OR simply not vote for the obama insurance industry bailout and massive middle class tax hike. just kill the bill, obamas political well being has become an anchor they dont want to be tied to anyway
President Obama appeared on five Sunday talks shows, but he said nothing of actually interest or newsworthy. It amazes how consistent the president has FAILED in selling health care as a moral issue. I just think the president has done a real piss-poor job in selling his economic policies thus far. He gives a heck of speech…no doubt. But the thrill of his speeches don’t translate into a core progressive policies. Obama and Rahm are so concerned about re-election and filling their campaign coffers for 2012 they’ve neglected to focus on the now.
And here we have the Bobblespeak Translation of the Snuffy interview
Mandatory insurance doesn’t work for many of the self-employed. How do you get subsidized on a quarterly basis, say? What if I made money last year, then have a bad first quarter this year, and now can’t afford the mandatory insurance? Do I cancel my policy? Not pay until I get approved for a subsidy? Or drop food and shelter expenses? It just doesn’t work. I’ll be the first to pay the fines, I’m sure. (I sort of wonder, if I drop insurance for a few months, is it a pro-rated fine? Just asking…)
they are just playing the game the way its played now. its pretty clear that nothing can be done within a corrupt system, that isnt itself corrupt. the govenment is broken, it needs to be fixed or replaced.note to libertarians: corporate rule is what we get when we make the government weaker than corporations. the strong WILL rule, and you cant keep them from it by wishing they wouldnt. stonger better govt NOT weaker less effective govt is the only way to preserve democracy.
Single payer- the type of plan in place in Britain and Canada, is probably the LEAST likely plan to every show up in the US in my opinion. The amount of change is too radical- it attacks virtually every special interest group connected with health care- including the unions.
I wouldn’t mind seeing it- but it’s not likely to happen in my opinion.
The good news is that if we do anything that results in universal coverage, it will NEVER be diminished- just as social security and medicare are now untouchable institutions.
The trick is to get us into universal coverage in a way that leads naturally to a just and equitable system that has as it’s basis the understanding that medical care is the right of every US citizen.
Once we have the coverage, the pressure will grow to cut back on the costs of the program and that should lead to a strong role for govt. which, after all, will be paying much of the bill.
Price controls then become a logical next step.
if premiums are affordable then mandating it should work.
If I had wheels, I’d be a trolley.
Good questions.
In the first place, eligibility for medicaid needs to be raised so as to cover all of those who cannot afford to pay anything for insurance. As of now, the federal eligibility limit for an individual is something like $9,000 per year. It needs to be MUCh higher.
Also- the re-inbursement schedule from the govt. to help medium income workers should probably be based on LAST year’s income- unless something happens to worsen the individual’s income in the current year.
tooot! toooot!
One the other hand there’s this;
Total spending on health care, per person, 2007:
United States: $7290
Switzerland: $4417
France: $3601
United Kingdom: $2992
Average of OECD developed nations: $2964
Italy: $2686
Japan: $2581
The difference between the amount these other countries spend and what we spend is nothing but waste, fraud, and theft.
45000 die in this country, millions go bankrupt. Compare and contrast with these other countries.
How many people die because they can’t get insurance in Italy?
How many are denied Coverage in the U.K.?
How many have their coverage canceled because they come down with an expensive illness in Germany?
How many go bankrupt because of medical bills in Japan?
Everybody in those countries is covered and covered for less money than we spend because they don’t have a predatory capitalist insurance model.
Last question is multiple choice;
Which is more likely:
a. The U.S. government will effectively regulate the health insurance industry.
b. The tooth fairy is real.
I know, that ones too easy.
President Obama has no interest in seeing a robust bill with a strong public option. He’s made it painfully clear that he is willing to settle for anything to avoid defeat. He bailed on Single-Payer, his support of the public option is faint and mild. He want’s mandated private insurance w/ a public option? That makes fucking sense at all. Its funny because the conservative outrage towards Obama and democrats is totally misguided. Its liberals and progressive who ought to be shouting and screaming at democraps for their failure to support progressive economic policies.
He sorta doesn’t understand what insurance is. It is carrying the burden for someone else while you’re healthy so that someone else can carry the burden when you’re not healthy. It’s not a health saving account.
Boy, I hear you on that one!
what about the Christian Scientists? Dedicated health care refusniks, whatever you may think of their beliefs, is it fair to force them to pay?
and LKN2 makes a good point at #82 – focussing on the ‘freerider’ problem while tolerating and encouraging fantastic waste elsewhere in the system is totally disingenuous.
Freeriders don’t have corporate lobbyists working DC, bribing Democratic pols, so they are the scapegoat that supposedly requires a mandate. ridiculous.
I’m for single payer, and if we can’t get that I’m for the public option. I would not consider it a tax cut if they dropped the car insurance requirement.
Who’s arguing against a “mandate”? The question is what the mandate requires you to do. Is it to buy insurance from a private market? Or pay taxes to cover the aggregated costs of universal care system. And even if the mandate is to buy insurance from a private market, what is the role of the insurers? To make profits? or to administer the payment system that is essentially funded through mandatory payroll taxes administered by the government?
I thought when Bush left office we returned from the other side of the Looking Glass, but I guess not. Insurance was created as a way for people to pool the risk of illness and injury making it possible for everyone to receive the same amount of care when needed. Allowing the companies who were willing to handle the money to make a small profit from the money until it was needed seemed like a fair payment for their caretaking. IT’S NOT THEIR MONEY that they handle. IT’S OURS. People are talking like insurance company profits are a given inevitability. They aren’t.
I stand with the lady on HuffPo last week who decided to stop paying her Bank of America credit card bill after they shafted her with a huge interest increase for absolutely no reason. If more of us could show this kind of courage — to stop funding the banksters (who gives a crap if your “credit rating” is bad; it’s not part of your DNA) and the insurance CEOs who profit from the sickness, pain, suffering, and death of their fellow Americans and do nothing in return for it — then we could bring this whole sick system crashing to a final, well-deserved end. We have the power but I wonder if we have the stomach to end this whole capitalistic orgy of profiteering once and for all?
The public option won’t make much of a difference in an economy with +10% permanent unemployment, a decline in real wages that puts us at 1917 levels of worth, an unregulated and out of control banking industry, and all the other factors contributing to the bankrupting of the American middle class.
If there were mandates on the insurance companies to actually sell insurance to everyone, to refuse them the ability to deny services to anyone, and a curb on the amount of profit they could reasonably make then things might get slightly better. But there is none of that. The CEOs will get everything they want and trade a very negligible amount of their profits over the next 10 years in return for a guaranteed 47+ million new customers with no meaningful curbs on deductibles or premiums or costs, other than “market forces” which have never worked. There is no silver lining.
Obama is willing to accept anything and call it a success but he agreed to give away the whole baby with the bathwater before this ever started to avoid being seen as partisan and having to publicly fight for what’s right. And it still didn’t get him free and clear but he has nowhere else to go. We, however, do.
Fight back. Stop funding the evil greedy bastards!
Didn’t think of that – even if a law passes, there will probably be “Free Exercise” clause (1st Amendment) challenges. Nice.
The group plans can’t exclude based on preexisting conditions and the insurance companies do all right there. Why is it that they get to assume that they need the mandate but we can’t assume that we need a public option? Give them a trigger, then. If they are paying out too much on people who only sign up when diagnosed and their profits are down to a certain level, they can have a mandate in that geographical area. It’s ludicrous to think that they can’t risk a percentage point of their profit finding out how it will work in practice but people can risk their entire financial lives finding out how well insurance company monopolies will turn out.
Maybe we should be calling and emailing the news pundits along with our represenatives.
I wonder if we could stop blaming Obama for not giving us what we want. I wonder if we could stop expecting the Democratic party to do what we want.
I wonder when we will take the responsibility and actually move toward restructuring the system (which is breaking down under environmental stress).
This is a coalition government. It is the only model that can explain the behavior of the President and the Congress.
Obama is not stupid, a traitor or without spine or balls. The Democratic Party is not our enemy. They are simply players in a system that we have misunderstood and are disenfranchised from (as are the ultra-right, by the way.) Both Obama and the Democratic Party are behaving exactly as would be expected in the case of a coalition government.
This is going to take work, not epithets. It is going to take creativity, not curses.
(BTW, I thought Obama’s presentation on 5 channels this morning was BS too.)
“because they don’t have a predatory capitalist
insurancemodel.”There. that pretty much answers any and all questions about quality of life in the U.S v anywhere worth living.
Pundits on CNN are calling this Ann Minch revolt against the high interest rate as a “Credit Card War” and taling about personally responsibility about paying your bill for the things you charge. They just don’t get it.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..85394.html
Sunshine, I do call & email, believe me:) Perhaps best of all, for a democrat, I’m right now moving from very blue New York state to swing-state Florida.
Perhaps moving to a swing state, my voice will carry more weight??? I really am fed up with Democrats. During campaign season, they act like Democrats. Once the Democrats are elected, I dont know, they seem to, poof, turn into moderate/centrist Republicans. I didnt vote for a centrist republican platform, I can tell you that.
If the Dems dont deliver on health care, read, strong public option, I will not turn out in 2010 or ‘12. At least w/the Republicans, they’re upfront about what you’re getting.
Sunshine: Yikes! You have a very good point. I’ve only been calling elected representatives/sentators, not the news media! I’ll start doing that once I get down to Florida:)
Yeah, no kidding. They actually charge you more if you don’t have coverage and go to the ER. That’s what happened to my husband. I guess that refers to people who can’t pay the bill, or get free service at a safety net. Once this passes, there won’t be free care at most safety nets. That’s what happened in MA with Romney Care.
Exactly, Scarecrow.
I told y’all so BEFORE the election.
Pray that this is just the first shot. Think about it. What if millions of Americans suddenly refused to pay 30% usury level interest on anything? What if millions of Americans refused to buy the profiteering new insurance and refused to pay the tax penalty? How about we bring down those “too big to fail” banks ourselves?
The system would grind to a halt and collapse. The only thing that keeps this madness going is our acquiescence and our feeling of doing what it “right” even though we know the other side is doing nothing but “wrong”. It will take this kind of rebellion to end the corporate control of the US government and the corporations.
And heavenly days, I never dreamed I would be looking at such an anarchistic solution but I don’t believe there is much else to choose from anymore, is there?
besides the Christian Scientists there are probably a few others who don’t avail themselves of modern medicine out of principle – not sure who, though. Amish? I don’t know.
the CS are well funded enough, they could mount a suit, I don’t know if they tend to be that litigious, though.
I think there would be other grounds for suing if subjected to this odious mandate, but I’m not a lawyer.
I really am dumbfounded at these comments. I by no means think Obama is perfect, but you all sound like the FAR right. How long has he been in office again? Oh, that’s right, 8 months. But everyone wants to rush to judgement. You sound like 5 year old’s who want things done NOW and will scream and complain until they get it.
And those comparing Obama to Bush. REALLY?!? Wow. I’m in the twilight zone. You guys really need to get a grip.
Sheesh.
The emergency room visit is not free. You pay the hospital TO SEND YOU TO A SPECIALIST.
I’ve said elsewhere we need to sarcastically have a thank a republican day for us all being forced to buy insurance. They went very neatly into the trap laid for them. Now all the gop needs is to say their people want to end ss, medicaid and medicare since the fools carried signs saying no socialized medicine allowed.
People like Obama but they don’t fear him. That’s why Gov. Paterson publicly said he doesn’t “care what Obama wants.” You think a Republican governor would have ever crossed Bush like that? If you can’t control your own party what hope is there? Politics is a dirty business. To be successful you have to roll up your sleeves and get in the trenches. Someone needs to tell The President he’s not teaching law at the University of Chicago anymore. It’s time to fight. But we’re used to disappointment aren’t we my fellow progressives? We thought we were voting for the second coming of FDR instead we get another Clinton-esque triangulator.
IMO Obama had no business getting into that with Patterson at all.
that said, I think we’re all going to get screwed to the wall again by the Dems and R’s. This has gone on too long and it’s doing just what they wanted, exhausting everybody and making most folks sick ( no pun intended) of the whole thing.
Americans die while watching the two parties do the two step with each other.
And as for the person who thinks we haven’t given Obama enuff time to screw US, well, sir, the writing is on the wall. Just look at the citizen unfriendly bills Congress has passed so far under president Rahm…I mean Obama. They don’t need us anymore. They’ve got low cost labor from Mexico and Central America and skilled workers from everywhere else, who are more than ecstatic to come over here and participate in the “American Democracy Charade”.
It’s classic Shock Doctrine. Don’t mean I’m gonna stop trying, I just don’t think it’s gonna happen for US
New to politics? Or are you just not paying attention? Obama has delivered billions of dollars to Wall Street and offered lukewarm efforts at possible “reforms” to an industry that gambled us to the brink of worldwide depression. He has ushered in a jobless recovery and a worsening recession while doing little to nothing to stop the tsunami of foreclosures of American voters homes and disparity between the have everythings and the have next to nothings.
Now he is set to give billions more to the insurance industry all while telling we who voted him into office that we need to get past ideology and suck up the reality that we will all be required to buy insurance with no appreciable cost controls or elimination of profiteering so we will get the very short end of the stick again.
He has escalated the war in Afghanistan and refused to step forward on issues that actually effect average middle class Americans, such as card check, cramdown, credit card reform, and affordable healthcare, all while meeting with corporate interests in secret and ignoring the massive illegal activities of his predecessor.
And you say we sound like spoiled children? Just when is Obama supposed to enact that change you can believe in that he campaigned oh so heavily on for the last 3 years? In his last month in office? After the corporate oligarchs completely own everything without recourse? When we are all reduced to corporate servitude in the name of too-big-to-fail billionaires? I’m not new to politics — I’ve been through Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama. I’ve seen and experienced a lot in my 50 years.
Waiting for Obama to throw a bone to us in some un-named, distant future while enacting Republican policies is not loyalty, it’s stupidity and naievete. He told us to make him do the right thing and though we try he continues to ignore and belittle us. He deserves all the dissatisfaction he is garnering from both sides of the aisle. He will become a leader or he will be remembered as a failure. It’s that simple and he works for us. We have every right to complain.
Thanks very much for this. I agree about Democrats. Just came from a meeting of my town’s Democratic committee at which our congresscritter, John Olver, wanted us to get behind a win for Obama on healthcare — even though Olver has been a co-sponsor of H.R. 676 for years. From listening to other members there, however, they’d rather that Obama got behind a win for the American people.
I’m certainly with him on personal responsibility; but if I were him I’d make certain folks take personal responsibility. For example, I would have taken the banks into receivership, fired the traders who got us into this mess. Taken down AIG. Let the foreign banks fend for themselves. Fired the Federal Reserve guys who didn’t see this coming. Raised taxes by adding three new marginal tax rates with the top income tax rate going up to 50%. I also would have stopped all exporting of US jobs by American Corporations, and made sure that all our foreign trade partners were strictly abiding by their treaties with us. If they were not I would immediately have abrogated those treaties and denied them most favored nation status. I also would have made sure that those who broke the law in torturing people and violating the FISA act were made to take personal responsibility by prosecuting them to the full extent of the law.
In short, I’d enforce personal responsibility on everyone, especially those on high. But I’ll tell you right now the results of that would not be something that Mr, Obama might like, because too many of the people he has chosen to defend would end up either without jobs or in jail.
One of the big mistakes was to call the campaign ‘healthcare reform’ instead of ‘coverage reform’ or something similar. Most people are fairly satisfied with the care but not what they have to endure to pay for it before and after the use of it. Attacking the cost problem and what providers are paid for their services should have been addressed separately after ‘coverage reform’ takes place. Putting payment schedules in a bill like this just throws it into hopeless confusion. Having everyone covered will change the kind of services that are needed…fewer ER visits and more GP visits for regular check ups to catch diseases before they become harder and more costly to treat.
It taking the same amount of money and using it on the front end instead of the back end and taking the profit out for administration of claims and payments. Uninsured people are still paying in some way or another. Someone mentioned bartering for services. Well, that’s still paying..just very insecurely and haphazardly.
This is the only comment that deals with reality.
Thank you.
I second the motion. And to hell with the PO. I won’t vote for the Democrats again until they pass “Medicare for All.”
You go casey. Why don’t we make Mr. Obama take personal responsibility for the millions of people he’s planning to leave uninsured due to his feckless leadership? And how about making take personal responsibility for the half-baked stimulus package that he passed which is leaving us at 10% unemployment. Some recovery. Let’s make the Government the employer of last resort as we once set out to do.
It is very hard to explain to the public that workers would be better off paying a tax for universal coverage than they are paying for premiums, deductibles and combined out of pocket expenses under a totally private, profit-driven system. So what if you are paying a little more in taxes if you are paying less and have more security and more money in your pocket overall and long term. That is what is so hard for many people to envision and is so easy for the anti-reform crowd to exploit. Tax-hatred can be self-destructive and keeps us all in a lose-lose-lose situation on this issue. So don’t call it a tax. Call it a contribution just like a contribution to Social Security or any other retirement plan.
No, George, it’s not a tax, it’s a contribution to Medical Security.
“You know, I’m amused. I can’t tell you how many foreign leaders who are heads of center-right governments say to me, I don’t understand why people would call you socialist, in my country, you’d be considered a conservative.”
– President Obama
You sound a lot like me (no car insurance, living close to the bone, age) but I was too chickenshit to freelance. Instead of doing work I had some sort of meaningful connection with, I ran after a secure but shitty job (custodian) with health benefits three years ago. Don’t ask me who made the better choice. All I know is that this country is turning into a pretty cold place since the DLC Dems sold their souls (and spines) to corporate lobbyists.
I’m not from another country and I consider Obama to be a conservative.
He is, that’s the point. Don’t expect anything “progressive” out of him voluntarily.
What Obama’s offering is worse than the status quo. He doesn’t get it, as Ideologues, don’t compromise Single Payer for “A Public Option.” He’s working off the old script that Progressives will buy watered down compromise and he’s in for one hell of a shock, as we all turn on him. From the looks of the comments, I’m not the only one who’s going to oppose this “slush fund for Insurance CEO’s” and that’s all that has given us. No, I don’t care if this is “Obama’s Waterloo”. So what if he’s one and done, it’s not like we’re loosing a Progressive. Let the Repugs take the whole ball of wax, fuck it up some more and we’ll come back in 2016 and try again for single payer. When that time comes, we’ll have learned that ANY compromise was a waste of time, donations and heart ache.
Hillary was right, Change you can Xerox.
I came out of college with a history of Hodgkins disease and everyone telling me I had to have a Corporate Job, for the Health Insurance or face death or fiscal ruin. Because of it, I worked for 25 years for corporations I hated. I know I’m not the only one to have that tragedy forced down their throats.
I wouldn’t force that fate on even the worst Repug.
Medicare is mandatory once you hit 65…
You have to be joking right? He is such a leftist it isn’t funny…
you the one thats funny.
There’s a word in English called ‘because.’ Have you heard of it?
so when you say
instead of the ellipsis* you would use that word, because, and add a fact that supported your assertion.
try it! then maybe some folks will offer you coaching, and add comments about your choice of facts and how they relate to your assertion, `cause thats how we do it.
*”A mark or series of marks ( . . . or * * * , for example) used in writing or printing to indicate an omission, especially of letters or words.”
I buy a blanket for my bed, but it’s late spring and I don’t use it until December. Then, the manufacturer comes ’round and says I have to give the cover(age) back. Naturally I complain and suggest if he must have it back he must return my money plus a fine/fee/interest. He says “No”.
I ask, why should an insurance company be allowed to take away your (blanket) coverage at all? And, if they can, then why don’t they have to reimburse your costs?
Why should they be allowed to keep your money all that time, invest it to make more and yet not provide you with anything? Isn’t that fraud?
Yes, in fact Obama is the ideological one. It is he who was so bound to free market ideology that he could not accept the single payer experience of other countries and insisted that America needed “a unique solution.” That is American exceptionalism wrapped in free market ideology. It is also he who seems so bound to “the perfect is the enenmy of the good,” that he cannot insist on “the good” even when it is very far from perfect. Obama is the ideologue of “cool” of “lack of commitment” of “let’s go forward.” He is the ideologue of short-run pragmatism. The rest of us however, are only after Medicare for All because experience has shown that it works. That’s real pragmatism.
Sounds like a good structure. Adjust the numbers as needed to make it cost what we want to pay.
What I’m thinking is that by discussing the mandates now we get public input on a topic that hasn’t been discussed much and it clarifies whether they should be done. If there’s a consensus they must be used then it defuses the “It’s a tax” rhetoric the Republicans could use during Congressional races.
It’s a pain in the butt to have to go over so many issues with the public, but health care reform involves a lot of components. “We” haven’t even really gotten into the care part (as many people expected we would).
Or their senseless ideological commitment to bipartisanship. “Bipartisanship for what?”
Maybe for this phase of the ‘debate’ there needs to be someone else like HHS Sec. Sebelius or even someone below her who can make the rounds and discuss how the system of mandate plus subsidies would work.
People have complained about how the President isn’t talking details. I don’t think it’s so important that he do that. But, at this time there is some need for that. It’s like sending out Geithner to talk details on economic issues. Send out several policy wonk specialists to explain the details and let’s find out if the public buys the mandates & subsidies idea.
I fear the “mandates = taxes” meme will come back to bite us in the next elections if it isn’t discussed now.
Well tinman1967, you seem to have no people mandating poor people and middle class people to do what they don’t want to do, so what’s wrong with laying some mandates on doctors and hospitals too? Perhaps they ought to show some personal responsibility for a change, and live on 200k per year rather than 400-500k?
Escape to Canada.