A growing number of Senators of both parties, and the President himself, keep suggesting that the American people should get the same kinds of insurance choices federal employees get. Sometimes they may even say we should get the "same deal" as they do.
It’s appealing rhetoric, but almost none of them means it, because as Ron Wyden likes to remind people, most Americans would not get the same choices under these bills that Congress gives itself.
That’s because the bills (including the Baucus and Obama plans) deliberately maintain two mostly separate markets — one for employer-based plans and another for exchange-based plans — and then erect a firewall between them.
The firewall limits (at least in the initial year or so) the ability of employees in the first market to reject their employer-based plans and choose something in the exchange market. Some Senators (e.g., Snowe) would let a few more employees into the exchange the first year. The restrictions could ease by the third year, depending on the bill. But initially, the freedom to choose between alternative plans will occur, if at all, in the exchange, which may or may not include a public option.
Ron Wyden would break down the firewall and allow many more access to the exchange. That could undermine the employer-based market. Lots of parties, including private insurers (if there’s a public option) and unions wanting to protect hard-won employer-based arrangements, are frightened by that prospect.
Equally important, most politicians who tout the federal system model certainly don’t mean the government would provide the same financial support to people buying in the exchange that federal employees get in paying their premiums. Not even close.
The New York Times examines what this equivalence would actually mean, and it turns out that the deal Senator Baucus and friends are offering to the American people would offer far less assistance than Congress gives itself for equivalent coverage.
But here’s a quick snapshot of federal employee health benefits:
Two of the most popular options are national, fee-for-service Blue Cross plans. There is a “basic” option that requires the use of in-network doctors, hospitals and other providers, and a more expensive “standard” option that covers some out-of-network charges.
The basic plan costs employees $92.44,per month or $1,109.28 per year for individuals, and $216.48 per month or $2,597.76 per year for families. The government pays $277.32 per month or $3,327.84 per year for individuals, for total annual individual premiums of $4,437.12, and $649.45 per month or $7,793.40 per year for families, for total annual family premiums of $10,391.16. The out-of-pocket maximum is $5,000.
The standard plan costs employees $152.06 per month, or $1,824.72 per year for individuals, and $356.59 per month or $4,279.08 per year for families. The government pays $337.26 per month or $4,047.12 for individuals, and $763.08 per month or $9,156.96 for families, for total annual individual premiums of $5,871.84 and total annual family premiums of $13,436.04. The out-of-pocket maximum is $5,000 for in-network services and $7,000 for out-of-network costs.
The Times then compares these numbers for the federal government’s contributions to what the Baucus plan is offering:
But now math under the Baucus proposal seems to be this: for the basic plan, a family of four earning just over $66,150 in 2009 would theoretically pay $7,938, and government subsidies would cover the balance of $2,453.16. Federal employees today get a much better deal. They now pay about 25 percent of the insurance cost and the government pays 75 percent, while under the Baucus proposal, a similar family would pay $7,398, or roughly 76 percent of the insurance cost, and the government would pay 24 percent.
Federal employees currently pay about 38 percent of the cost of the standard plan for family coverage; while the Senate Finance bill would have our theoretical family earning just over $66,150 pay about 59 percent of the cost of the standard plan.
In other words, the federal government subsidizes the premiums for federal employees, including members of Congress, from 20 percent more to up to three times more generously than the Baucus plan would do for ordinary Americans required to purchase insurance in the new exchange(s). But at least the Baucus plan is deficit neutral.
By the way, notice that monthly premium of $92.44 that a fed employee pays for the basic individual plan? That’s almost exactly what Medicare charges me. In short, Senators pay something equivalent to Medicare rates for full coverage. So can we see a show of Senators’ hands from those who think Americans should get the same deal?
More:
Politico (h/t wigwam) — AFL-CIO trashes Wyden proposal



57 Comments

Scarecrow, I actually think that someone in DC is waking up to the fact that if the Dems want to deliver on health reform, Wyden’s plan is probably the simplest, most complete hope for actual… competition.
Without Wyden’s plan, we have:
Those with employer medical plans, stuck in their own little universes of whatever their employer can afford to offer them — with whatever options the employer can offer. But that doesn’t guarantee they’ll get the best care available in their area; it’s possible they can’t access the best care because their employer can’t afford to buy into the best system.
So without Wyden’s plan, we have two subgroups:
– employerPlans, and
– everyoneElse.
That means within the realm of ‘employerPlans’, the healthCos still have leverage to jack up prices.
Wyden’s plan allows everyone ’shop’ even outside whatever options their own employer might offer. Simply put, it looks like this:
–employerPlansANDeveryoneElse
That means that there’s a level playing field; no healthCo is ‘protected from competition’ by being able to corral specific employer packages.
Hey, hey ;-)))
I anticipate that Wyden will be under plenty of pressure to cave, and I hope he gets some good laughs out of any attempts to bully him.
The idea of any kind of premium priced at $92.44 blows my mind. Mine is over $500/month, not including co-pays and not including dental.
You can see why I’m fairly interested in following this health care issue…
I think they realize they can’t accept the full implications of Wyden’s amendment, because they’d virtually have to start over. It could unravel lots of existing employer plans, and thus be very disruptive, and there would be lots of winners and losers in the transition. And they’d have to redesign the pay or play amounts, and radically change the revenue schemes.
The Democratic strategy — Obama and congress — has been to avoid this massive transition — there would be change, but it would be gradual. They wanted to assure Americans that what they’re doing won’t be too disruptive — “you can keep what you have” – while telling them that the status quo is unstable and could deprive them of what they have anyway. It’s a tough argument to make.
Yeah, I have no idea how this will play out, but I’m actually more optimistic than I was a week or so ago. (Not to mean things will turn out well, but I do believe there is more cause to hope, and it looks to me as if the Republican wankering in this morning’s Finance Committee bleatings about how ‘this is rushed’, yadda, yadda simply made it a damn sight more simple for the Dems to keep on their side of the yawning chasm that the GOP has opened up with its crybaby whining and pathetic half-truths.
Here’s why I’m actually becoming more optimistic: big corporations are pissed (okay, I’m speculating based on sketchy conversations with several acquaintance) because they get smacked around for anti-competitive actions, and then they’re expected to fork over whatever ransom the healthCos want to soak them for — so some of the Big Biz support for healthCos that was still intact in 1994 is completely gone.
And then plenty of small businesses have been treated like crap the past 20 years by healthCo’s, so they have zero incentive to support the status quo. In fact, that’s been a brewing source of derision among a couple small biz (less than 100 employees) owner/managers that I’ve known for a number of years. They also feel as if they’ve been jacked by healthCos.
So I expect the healthCos to blame the Dems, blame Obama, blame Wendell Potter, blame Howard Dean, blame the blogs, and blame Ron Wyden (and Jay Rockefeller and Maria Cantwell).
Those idiots need to look in the mirror if they want to know who to blame.
BTW: Keep your eye on Cantwell (D-Wa). She’s had health care reform on her radar for years now, and her comments at the opening of the committee hearings today were spot-on: the pay-for-service model of health care is bullshit, and has to be completely reworked.
Since healthCos basically make their money off ‘transactions’ (much like eBay, if you think of it — they make their money by paying your provider), anything that whacks at that ‘transaction model’ is going to flip out healthCos.
Too bad.
Too many other outfits (including Group Health of the Puget Sound region, and Kaiser Permanente from the southwest corner of Cantwell’s state) have moved beyond the transaction model. From what I’ve seen of the Mayo model and the Cleveland model, they’re set up much like the managed care systems of Group Health and Kaiser — so Cantwell has seen for herself that these non-transactional models work much better for health care delivery than what we have now.
And Wyden’s plan would actually level the playing field so that even if your employer didn’t allow you to sign up for Group Health, then you’d just go onto the Exchange and check it out and sign up for it on your own.
Simple.
Workable.
Affordable.
Wyden’s plan makes so much sense and cuts through so much bullshit that it probably makes some of those healthCo execs and lobbyists choke.
Scarecrow, you may want to create a new diary on Maddow’s highlighting of bogus ‘public option’ claims by some in Congress, and also by FDL’s role in highlighting the non-reform of the Blue Dogs.
Woot!
the pay-for-service model of health care is bullshit, and has to be completely reworked.
this is what the ‘reformers’ want you to believe.
but canada, france, japan, just to name a few countries, all have fee-for-service [and generally more of it than we do] and they all keep their costs and overall spending much lower than ours.
group health, mayo, cleveland, kaiser permanente are usually cited as proof that we need to get rid of fee-for-service, but few people also point out that these companies all employ their physicians and pay them a set salary. on top of that, they are all their own insurers, which means that the drs don’t have to waste huge amounts of time arguing with insurance companies, treatment is decided by the dr[s] that you actually see in person [not by some bureaucrat in some faraway office], and treatments are not delayed or denied, which means that you don’t have to sit around getting sicker and sicker while your dr argues with the insurance company.
Maybe they’ll come up with a plan that simply makes all of us federal employees. After all, we all fulfill the nationally vital role of “taxpayer”, so why shouldn’t it be a job? Then we’d all have decent health insurance!
Young dude like you on medicare?
The deal is that while the Feds do have more and more affordable choices than do most folks, the choices are generally with the same private insurers most folks have. I know a Federal employee who’s with BCBS through the Federal option (which was recommended to her as the best — albeit priciest — option), and when she went to get her uterine fibroids dealt with via uterine artery embolization back in 2002, she was told that BCBS only covered hysterectomies for fibroid treatment and that UAE — which has been done in France for decades, both as a preparation for hysterectomy (to limit bleeding) and as a fibroid treatment in itself — was not considered a treatment. By the time BCBS grudgingly got round to kinda-sorta covering it, it was too late for her to get UAE and now she’s going to wait for menopause to kick in and hope that this shrinks the ‘roids enough to be manageable.
If you went into this process trying to figure out a way to develop the most complicated way to deliver worse care to fewer people at a higher expense, you couldn’t have come up with anything better than some of the stuff we’re seeing on the table right now.
Without the ‘public option’ Dems may lose their power structure and the public favor…easy to say.
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
thank you very much Scarecrow. last night was the most I had heard from/about Wyden’s plan and started scratching my head as to how it played against what we have been advocating here – your post was most helpful
also.
haven’t check in at Big Orange’s liveblog from mark up yesterday – can I safely assume neither of Wyden’s amendments came up yet ?
My SIL is a federal employee and they had selected BCBS when they denied my daughter a procedure that she needed. They ultimately paid for it but my SIL and daughter switched the next time the window opened for them to do so.
Addition to the daily tally I post on the Swim each morning:
US MBS 2009: 32,595
Does MBS stand for Major Bull Shit? *g*
I wish they’d include in any legislation that employers are required to put on pay stubs exactly what is going out for health care. Just like they show fed and state taxes, retirement, and anything else.
I don’t think most people realize how much of their pay is going for health care.
Course I really wish we’d just have medicare for all…
What remains difficult to understand is why Barack Obama pushed Single Payer off the discussion schedule.
Surely the Democrats do not need to run away from the models Social Security,Medicare and the VA system present.All three of which offer solid,decades old records of performance,user acceptance and are understood by many Americans because many Americans directly know of family and freinds who are in these systems.
The dishonesty factor seems to loom ever larger as this so called “more profits for American for profit healthinsurers reform” circles round and round Congress.
Would have made much more sense to build off SS,Medicare and VA models which are already well established and understood in daily lives by millions of Americans.
Letting the for profit American healtcare industry frame and run the alarms over this so called “reform” was just not very smart on Barack Obamas part.
Well…he likes to say he “owns whatever comes out of this reform” so I hope he understands what that means during 2012.
One is hard pressed to see where WashingtonDC is focused on how this all comes out 20 years down the road. What is done well now will matter when the year 2030 arrives. Any stinkpile pushed together to just get past the next two or three years by WashingtonDC will be just that. A stinkpile.
I would rather see Barack Obama take the big bets and get this done right or go down in defeat trying.
This meet halfway measured approach is going to pull him down and the Republicans are going to lie about it,smear and abuse him anyway.
Why is Barack Obama failing this basic Politics 101 lesson?
What the government pays on employees FEHB plans was intended to be a fair representative of what private enterprises paid on employee health plans. It was established when the country worked, and prior to Republican instigated collapse of private company benefits. It and all civil service salaries and benefits were offered to attract employees, in competition with private enterprise. During fat times, the government employees salaries and benefits did not appear all the attractive to many career seekers.
I understood Widen to say that, under his plan, companies would be required to grant credits to employees, who could then take those credits to the exchange and apply them toward plans of their choice. That would theoretically maintain the relationship between employer furnished plans, whether private enterprise or governement,and allow all employees of private enterprise to participate in the competitive exchange.
The times I have heard Widen, he seems to be unclear or deceptive on the term “public option.” At times he seems to be referring to the “exchange” system and trying to talk down an actual government run health care option as one plan on the exchange. But,if the reference to public option is undefined, he will nod and indicate he supports it.
thank you too for your input. very helpful
Tony Benn from Michael Moore’s SICKO regarding choice:
It’s all about the health care lobby money. They pretty much own the GOP and increasing number of Blue Dogs, so they rendered single-payer a non-starter Congressionally. (This is shown by the fact that single-payer legislation’s alleged Congressional backers started to run away from it once a vote was scheduled.)
We’re talking about a lobby that can afford to spend a million and a half a day without breaking a sweat.
I wish everyone would stop referring to corps{e} as “companies.” I noticed
that it’s become almost generic including Jane’s comments when she was on Maddow.
Corps have almost no liability while companies reflect individual responsibility.
Our language has been stolen, and I want it back! i.e. “dope peddlers” became “drug dealers;”
“medical insurance” became “health insurance.” Corpse don’t do a darn thing for our health.
I’m surprised the unions are worried about the open exchange. If health insurance costs drop, they should be able to go back to bargaining over wages, and change is slow enough that contracts will expire or can be reopened.
Murdered By Spreadsheet
for the uninitiated
There are three issue about an employee moving to an insurance plan other than one that is offered by his/her employer:
– Would the employer’s “contribution,” still be available to the employee in paying for this other plan?
– Would the premiums still be tax deductible?
– What if the healthy employees and only the healthy employees jumped ship in this fashion? (Obviously it would destroy employer-based health coverage.)
I’m no fan of employer-based health insurance, but under Wyden’s proposal we employees would get screwed unless the answers to the first two question were “yes.”
Per Politico yesterday:
A couple of years ago, there was a high school teacher who was murdered by her son. Stabbed her, like, more than 20 times. In the newspaper article, he was referred to as a pharmacutical distributor.
Damn, the sausage factory needs to be cleaned-up. Once again, urgently paging Upton Sinclair
I speak english and less italian. Have difficulties with lakota and acronym.
Medicare/medicaid for all. Matching payroll percentage-of-wage deduction. Unemployed have employee portion deducted from unemployment checks.
Done.
Massive disruption? This is why transition to national healthcare system, ie, Medicare for all, in the end would be most popular. As Dean says, over the long term, the most popular programs are across the board, open to everyone. The counter-argument to all the worry and concern is, “Gradually raise the age and income elegibility levels of SCHIP while transitioning it to a Medicare program, and lower the age of elegibility for Medicare.”
The Fairness of it is already an established value in our society, (because of Medicare and Social Security.) And the appeal to the Insurance industry would be: Even if the market is shrinking, at least as the pool gets smaller and smaller it still gets healthier and healthier.
The problem is, Scarecrow,that Medicare is going bankrupt as indeed government subsidized programs do. It’s working for you now, but even in a few years won’t work for anyone following you. That’s not sustainable.
I think that’s right. If an employee was offered plans a work, but wanted a plan on the exchange, the employer would give the employee a voucher equivalent to what it would have paid for employer-based insurance for the minimum/basic plan — and you’d have to define that. So in theory, it should be the same, right? But wait.
While it retains a relationship between the employee/employer, the employer is now getting insurance for a smaller number of employees, and future offerings from insurers might not be the same. For the unions, this is when it starts to unravel. Any time you have two systems, with movement in between, you have to be very careful about people gaming the system — or in this case, adverse selection. So if the Exchange has very attractive policies for young people, then the young employers choose the exchange, while the older workers stay on the employer-based system, and their premiums will rise because the average cost goes up.
In the exchange itself, adverse selection is also a problem, so the bills require insurers with low-risk enrollees to give money to insurers with high-risk enrollees, to discourage discrimination and gaming. What Wyden’s proposal does is create conditions that would require this risk-sharing revenue system to also move money between the employer-based system and the exchange — and it just gets more complicated.
As long as we maintain two separated systems, one for employer-based plans and one for others, then these problems are inevitable. Wyden doesn’t create this problem; he just stumbles on a problem that is already there, inherent in the separated market structure.
One more thing. Wyden has not been a strong advocate of the public plan. But in the last day or two, it’s finally dawned on him that the people who support opening the exchange to those in the employer-based system are . . . public plan advocates who want to enlarge access to the public plan. So Wyden is now saying he thinks the exchange should have the public plan. Hello.
I think everyone agrees that the underlying costs of health care are unsustainable; it’s affecting Medicare and the private systems, and if they don’t solve that via the cost-cutting schemes they’re proposing, then we’re all in trouble. This isn’t just a Medicare problem.
I agree those are key questions. See my reply at #32. also, thanks for the link to the AFL-CIO reaction. I meant to add that and forgot.
Medicare is “going bankrupt” partly because the healthiest of the over 65 pool was syphoned off to Corps ‘medicare advantage’ with a high monthly fed subsidy to the corpse. Billions will be saved when/IF this is deleted.
The Medicare program receives monthly payment/deduction from Social Security BUT does NOT make payment until there is a claim.
Rough numbers from several years ago when I was paying attention to the GOP corp ‘medicare advantage’ plan: 45 million on medicare, 15 million signed up for {NOT medicare} ‘medicare advantage.’ On Medicare or ‘medicare advantage,’ SS deduction is the same; HOWEVER Fed transfers 15 million S/S deductions $$ PLUS the equivalent of 200-300% matching subsidy to the insurance corps monthly.
So, okay. Is Wyden now willing to take the Rockefeller pledge, as discussed in this Dkos diary?
That’s the big one. I seem to recall Hillary saying over and over again on the campaign trail in the primary that we subsidize Congress by 70%.
To funny and true
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..nntelnaes/
Not only do members of Congress basically pay a medicare premium rate, but they do so on a six figure income, something the majority of Americans do not have. The percentage of income they pay for insurance is miniscule compared to most every other American. Once again, they insult our intelligence.
An aspect which I have never heard mentioned is that, in order to participate in the FEHB, insurance companies have to agree to comply with certain rules regarding their offerings. I’m not sure of what they are, but fairly frequently, companies drop out of the program, apparently because they consider the rules too restrictive to allow the profits they seek. It seems to me that these “rules of the exchange” could be framed to lower cost and correct many of the “problems” in the current system, such as “pre-existing illnesses” and “recisions.” It would be complicated and require some governing authority, perhaps similar to state utility regulatory authorities or the old Civil Aeronautics Board. It would also require vast participation in the exchange,in order to insure company participation.
I got carried away in the previous paragraph, but any exchange would require some basic rules and enforcement. I’ve never heard that mechanism discussed.
I may have missed it in all the many threads about health care, but does anyone know current numbers for how many people in this country actually get their health insurance from their employers? With unemployment rates so high, it must be making an impact. And I don’t hear much of anything about those who are self-employed either in terms of health care coverage. I am pro-union and I wouldn’t want to weaken what they have fought for in terms of health coverage for employees, but there’s gotta be something for those who don’t fall into a regular employee-employer 9 to 5 job. I really think health care needs to be taken out of the employer’s realm to bring any kind of mobility and equity to working people.
Our senator Wyden is against the single payer option. He was a gang of 6 member before that disgusted him. Now he continues to offer ways to take money out of our pockets to pay insurance companies. Bullshit Senator.
For once and for ever, we do not want insurance involved in our health care. They are criminals that kill people for a profit and are granted immunity by our government for killing someone every 12 minutes.
If our dear Senator can’t understand that 75% of the people of his own state are against his bizarre ways of rewarding the insurers, he doesn’t deserve to be a senator any longer.
Medicare for everyone, no charge to anyone. Bill the rich. It’s called taxes, and the only people that are complaining about giving every one coverage are the rich people that made their money on the backs of the people that they have no obligation to help.
1 every 12 minutes Senator. The people always remember who harmed them, and who helped them. Decisions are made in milliseconds, for good or bad. You have had time to help us, and you choose not to. That is what we will remember, that you are against us.
About 160 million are covered by plans offered at work.
Thank you.
Well Vitter is supposed to propose an amendement that whatever healthcare gets passed, congresscritters will have to participate as well.
This could go along way to making the plan a real plan, or it could just kill the thing.
I support the electronic records piece as long as the records are under strict controls similar to that governing the IRS. But Medicare Advantage was simply a mechanism of giving folks that wanted additional coverage a means of paying for it with government sanction. To end that would be a benefits cut for those currently getting it. So my point is you can’t have it both ways. The health care system would benefit by a more Switzerland like approach which is more fee for service and less by third party payers. There is also very strict control over lawsuits in Europe.
I think you have misinterpreted what they intend to do. I think they are not going to get rid of Medicare Advantage entirely. They are just not going to pay exorbitant rates to private insurers to do what they could do themselves more cheaply. Apparently the private insurers have been overcharging the gov’t in subsidies, so that’s the fix. At least, I hope so, because I have a Medicare Advantage plan and it also pays for my prescription drugs which would run somewhere between $550-$900/month if I had to pay for them out of pocket. IOW, I could not have food or shelter if I had to pay for drugs and all else that Med. Advantage pays.
At least we know diapers will be covered.
I was with the Federal Government for quite a few years. Yes, we did have good health insurance but during the whole time I worked for Uncle Sam, all of my friends with private companies were getting much better insurance than I was. As someone else noted, the insurance package that Feds get did not, and really still does not in most cases, provide more benefits at less costs that one gets when working for a private company. Comparing giving someone HI and government funds to pay for it is a whole different thing that talking about the HI that an employer (Uncle Sam) gives to his employees (and which they pay a monthly premium for and ever increasing copayments, just like everyone else.)
Reg Kaiser Permanente doctors choosing their treatments for their doctors. That is in no way true for most folks. I can tell you that they’re acceptable treatments are set by KP management in a way to minimize actual costs to them and their patients. Don’t get what they need and when they need it; they get what KPs “formulary” will allow and no more. I’m so angry every time Obama or anyone else trumpets KP’s “affordable” coverage. KP does what the private insurers do: maximize their “profits” by denying all kinds of coverage that don’t fit in their severely restrictive health care plans.
KP needs to be taken to court and closed down for their gross injustices; actually, if I had my way, they would be put out of business; as far as I’m concerned, they’re just as bad as Blue Cross. And it would be interesting to know what their medical error rates are for malpractice and death rates from malpractice.
I pity anyone who has KP. I pity anyone with almost any insurance, but especially KP.
Blessings
I wish everyone would stop referring to corps{e} as “companies.” I noticed that it’s become almost generic including Jane’s comments when she was on Maddow. Corps have almost no liability while companies reflect individual responsibility.
good point. i’ll change my ways and start calling them corps. also i’ll look forward to the day when we can start calling them corpses too.
kp has branches[?] scattered around the country. what i hear is that some of them are notably better `[more generous] than others. also, this problem seems to have gotten worse in recent years, but that may just be subjective opinion.
but they used to be a good model, at one time.
Shoot, maybe Barack figures that if he doesn’t get the big companies too angry at him, after he’s President he’ll be able to get as rich as Clinton is today.
Hi PW, It wasn’t just Republicans and blue dogs. It was Barack. He’s the one who made it a non-starter by “taking it off the table.”
There’s no chance they’ll vite for that Amendment. They’d probably sooner vote for Medicare for All.
I’ve had good experiences on and off over the years since the 1970s with Kaiser Permanente. My family has gotten good routine and preventive care from them. Lately, we’ve noticed that they’ve cut the number of routine check-ups from two per year to one. We also have the impression that their GPs are overloaded, and they’re also not very quick to approve things like Chiropractic care, though they will do it if you pressure your GP. I’ve heard Kaiser horror stories from other parts of the country. Michael Moore has one in Sicko. But I haven’t heard of any in the Capital Region of the organization.
Other friends of ours who have had serious illnesses also speak well of Kaiser. A very good friend of mine recently had multiple procedures in a single operation. He’s in his 80s. They did nothing to ration his care, and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix his heart. The operation was two years ago. The results weren’t optimal, but he’s still alive, sees them often, and doesn’t appear to be encountering any rationing. There are no Kaiser Death panels that I can see here.