We are seeing daily reminders of the real horrors of a jobless “recovery,” made worse by the expiration of unemployment benefits and stimulus COBRA subsidies. Yet we’ve seen confirmations that the stimulus bill’s deficit spending significantly helped to lessen the problem, though state budget cuts and taxes are undoing much of the benefit. Yet our media continue to pay too much attention to the perils of deficit spending, running alarmist (front-page) articles and editorials on the need for deficit reduction.
Brad DeLong has wondered, if something is working, why aren’t we doing more? But instead, too many in Washington want to do the oppposite.
The economists who got it right – Krugman, Dean Baker, DeLong, Roubini, et al — and others who learned the lessons (Zandi, Bartlett) have been desperately trying to keep the White House from repeating Herbert Hoovers’s mistakes in the early ‘30s and FDR’s “reduce the deficit” mistake in 1936-37. They’ve been urging Congress and the White House to embark on further stimulus/job creation efforts financed primarily through deficit spending.
Since the White House will sponsor a “Jobs Summit” on Thursday, and at least Krugman and Stiglitz are reportedly invited, it may be helpful to have a relatively accessible statement of the basic argument for such efforts.
At a recent conference, Professor James Galbraith discussed the origins of the financial crisis and the remedies for helping the millions of unemployed who will otherwise languish in their own deep recession. Mark Thoma kindly posted three videos of Galbraith’s remarks at his blog, Economist’s View; the transcript below is an excerpt from the second video.
Summarizing the actions of the Federal Reserve to rescue the financial system from the catastrophe the bankers created while the Fed slept, Galbraith concluded:
You take all of this together, the vast expansion of the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve, and what you have, frankly, is the effective nationalization of the financial system. That’s what happened.
It was effective in every sense . . . except it did not effectively clean out the frauds, it did not effectively punish the predators, it did not effectively reform the system or exercise control over the conduct of the banks going forward. So you might say. it was the banks that nationalized the government, and not the other way around.
He continues with his view of the collapse of credit, dismissing the Fed’s view of credit as a “flow”:
Credit is a contract; credit is a reciprocal relationship between a borrower and a lender. And what happened a year ago is that the borrows, for reasons good and sufficient, quit; they stopped buying cars; they sat on whatever cash they had, they started protecting themselves as best they could in a situation which was deeply unsettling and deeply threatening.
They realized that a very good substitute for the car and the refrigerator that you might wants is the one you already have.
It’s going to be very interesting as this continues, because the society will get poorer over time as all of our stuff gets old. That’s how it’s going to work out.
So what saved the economy from further collapse?
Why didn’t we get . . . move directly into the Great Depression? The answer is, government. The fall of private spending was offset and in large part automatically by an increase in government spending.
. . .
What saved us therefore were institutions that were created in the Great Depression, in the New Deal, by Roosevelt: unemployment insurance and social security and disability forms of relief, and in the Great Society by Lyndon Johnson, particularly Medicare.That’s the main reason the deficit shot up. The stimulus package added to that and is adding to that particularly now, six months after it was enacted. It was, I think, too small, weakened by political compromise, but it was still a constructive step. You add those two things together, you get the deficit, and the deficit is indeed the one thing which has prevented a catastrophic decline, so far, in economic activity.
I stress this, because it’s very important to recognize that all of this talk about how bad deficits are, is aimed at persuading people to accept a cutback of the only medicine which is keeping the system alive at the present time. It’s very important to recognize this.
The language is stacked against us: “deficits are bad, surpluses are good.” But in fact, the deficit is the antibiotic, and if you cut out the antibiotic before the patient is ready to recover from the disease, the infection simply comes back.
These seem like simple concepts, but they can’t be explained often enough when the Republicans are in denial, too many Democrats have become foolish, opportunistic scolds, and too much of the media either doesn’t get it or just repeats the denials. And it’s helpful to have them explained this clearly.
Related:
Krugman, The Jobs Imperative, Things to come, The Dogbert theory of debt, A familiar feeling, and many others.
Brad DeLong, Deficit neutral stimulus, Yes the ARRA is working, and CBO Fiscal Policy Multipliers,
Dean Baker, Let’s spend money, and generally here.
Mark Thoma, Worries About Budget Deficits and Inflation: Let’s avoid repeating our mistakes
William Greider, In the Shadow of Hoover



48 Comments




Very nicely put, I think.
The medical analogy might be better if the stimulus was represented by an iron lung rather than an anti-biotic. An external and artificial device pumping the lungs to keep the system oxygenated when they aren’t capable of performing normally. Let’s remember that with medical treatment, too much can be unhealthy, and misapplication might be fatal.
If you’re having trouble getting it across to Reps try using a business analogy instead. Great-grandpa from the old country started a family bakery that keep three generations nicely comfortable, until that old boozer Uncle Zeke ran the business into the ground. He’s gone now, but you’ve got vendor bills up the ying-yang, your equipment is falling apart, your reputation is trashed and customers are giving you a wide berth.
You can stay on this ride all the way to the bottom, or you can go in hock up to your eyeballs and try to turn it around. You’ll never again have it as good as you did. Your kids will never have it as good as you thought they would. God willing and the Cree don’t rise, your grandkids will get back what you took for granted.
Now suck it up and get moving.
Thanks for coverage of this really sound presentation.
The deficit myth is all about labeling, and you will note that the same wingers who gave us overwhelming deficit spending are now opposed to it, claiming now it’s a danger to the country. Real economic thinkers like Krugman and Stiglitz once more are being pushed to the background while the same media darlings that were fine with those deficits – when it was about war – are once again intoning against the same deficits to the public on their t.v.’s, as if the negative line were a rational mantra now, when it’s about the public good.
Insted of calling it a deficit, we should be calling it positive spending.
The authorities who cheer-led the Iraqi war are now promoting more, victory, in Afghanistan under the same principle of ‘forget I was wrong before, you know my name’. The only reason for regarding the serially wrong self-proclaimed authorities as worth listening to will again be, that their agents are better situated with the punditry and they will get exposure despite being provably wrong then, and likely just as wrong again now.
What about a “windfall profit” tax on the financial sector bonuses. This would be across the board and therefore prevent “brain drain”, i.e. employees leaving corporations because of limits imposed on salaries by the government. This seems “fair” and should be popular as it only affects a small portion of the population, the population that was responsible for the problem in the first place.
Instead of Goldman Sachs giving $500 million to its “charity fund”, how about $10 billion of its bonuses ($20B taxed at 50% (or pick your number) right off the top? This would apply to all firms and all US citizens so that moving to work in the London or Geneva financial sector would still be covered unless you gave up your citizenship.
This could be used for deficit reduction or financing job creation (see above) or financing healthcare reform!
Comments, please.
According to it’s 10-Q for the third quarter, Goldman Sachs expects to pay $1.6bn in taxes on $12.4bn in net revenues, an effective tax rate of about 13%.
I like the iron lung metaphor.
The Economic Policy Institute and others have proposed a financial transactions tax, with the idea that if Congress is uncomfortable with straight deficit spending, it could begin the tax three years from now and over the next ten years, it would capture enough revenues to offset the costs of a massive jobs program. DeLong notes it works best only if other nations have comparable taxes — and Europe recently proposed this, only to have Geithner shoot it down. See the DeLong link to “deficit-neutral stimulus.” in the related posts.
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/11/deficit-neutral-stimulus.html
I am not too thrilled by either DeLong or Thoma. Galbraith has been about the best so far in getting the various aspects of our economic and financial crisis right. Baker has also been good. I would put Stiglitz after them. Krugman has been fairly spotty.
The marginalization of common sense approaches is just part of the overall failure of our elites. It is why the likelihood is very high we will go over the cliff. Our elites can no longer act or react in ways which are even minimally effective. This jobs conference is BS pure and simple. When it was the banks they acted immediately and massively. When it is the 27 million Americans who are un- or under- employed they announce a conference to talk about it. The disparity could not be more striking.
I’ve seen some deficit spending I don’t like. Vietnam. Iraq. Etc.
Not all deficit spending is beneficial to the economy.
Seems it’s as if we’re maxed out on the home equity line just when we need to borrow $50,000 to pay a tuition.
The U.S. will continue to run big deficits for a very long time AND use it as an excuse not to spend any money doing things that could help average Americans. It is a mistake to assume either party had any intention of helping average Americans at the outset. Corp tools rule.
This article would be laughable but for the end consequences.
Plus the shareholders will have to pay taxes on the dividends and so the income will be taxed twice.
Do the powerful forces on Wall Street [and their bankers, their enablers in Washington] want job creation in America? Sure, they don’t want an unemployment rate that completely obviates consumer demand. And they don’t want unemployment to reach the point that it becomes a political problem.
But if they can sustain an economy with a brand new “normal” unemployment rate at double or more the old “normal” rate, they will embrace it. Why? Because an unemployment rate at 8 to 10 percent virtually ensures a docile labor market. And that means low inflation rates and a further crippling of the union movement.
And this will happen unless something [anything!] resembling the 1930s begins to sprout once again in America.
In the Spring of 2010 there is supposed to be a march on Washington, “to demand jobs, housing, healthcare, full funding for public education and social services, and peace..”
Let this be in the hundreds of thousands. If it [and a broader labor/progressive grassroots movement] fizzles, there will be little or no hope left to cling to. The voters will turn on cue to the Republicans in November and the whole farce in Washington will be continued far into the future.
So: What will it really mean for the White House to hold a “jobs summit” when virtually all of those who constitute Obama’s “economic team” are part and parcel of this Wall Street agenda? Only when the pressures start building from below [and out on the streets] will we see real changes from this bought and paid for Democratic Party.
whilst I agree with the general notion that we will, for the foreseeable future, have a need for extraordinary public expenditures, whether for infrastructure, social programs, employment programs, and healthcare, it’s also useful to note that we squandered the relative prosperity of the period from 2000 to 2008, when we should’ve been running surpluses (following the more typical Keynesian model).
As I understand my economic history, the country worked with surpluses or nearly balanced budgets as a percentage of GDP from 1900 to 1917, 1920 to 1931, 1947 to 1970, 1997 to 2001. The Bush II era level of expenditure was similar to that of the Reagan and Bush I era, which itself was the highest level of expenditure since the WW2/Great Depression era (in fact, Bush II’s level of spending as a % of GDP was similar to Great Depression levels of spending as a % of GDP, up until WW2 began). Currently, I think the deficit is something like 12.5% of GDP, which is a level seen only in 1918-1919 (WW1) and 1942-1945 (WW2). By itself this shouldn’t be a problem if it wasn’t for Bush’s massive corruption and absurd level of spending in the decade prior.
My question is what does this mean for our ability to sustain 10% of GDP+ levels of deficit expenditure, even if there is aneed for it? What is the picture with cumulative debt and debt service?
Have no fear! Geithner and Summers are here! Is the economy supposed to serve all the people or merely the elites? Obama has spoken on behalf of the elites. At this point we can hope for a 1 term presidency for the biggest con job foisted on the American public.
What I find astonishing about the MSM/Washington discussion of deficit spending is that it assumes that government finance and household finance are the same. It ignores the key characteristics that make government spending unique:
[a] The government cannot go bankrupt (even to the limited extent households can at this point)
[b] The government has a guaranteed source of income–it can levy taxes at will.
[c] The government can pay extremely low interest rates because of [a] and [b]. (It has the best possible credit rating because it always needs money, it can’t default, and it can always get the money to pay).
So even Mr. Grumpy’s business analogy understates the case for commonsensical government spending in a crisis. You aren’t going into hock up to your eyeballs to save the family firm, because you don’t need to go to the pawnbroker, give security, and get 20 cents on the dollar. Instead, you can go to any bank you want, borrow for a couple percent using your word alone as collateral, and you can extend the loan for as long as you like. In fact, they’ll ask if you are sure you have enough.
With a deal like that, you’d be crazy not to borrow, assuming that you actually needed the money. So the only reason not to do it would be to argue that we didn’t need to save the family business. That recovery is unneeded. Because, once we concede that we have to recover and that recovery will need financing, the case for government deficit spending is clear. Nobody in private business can do recovery as cheaply or effectively as government can. And the government, will never have a better, cheaper opportunity to get all of its deferred-maintenance projects done. Win/win.
That’s like saying paying taxes on the interest from a CD, savings account, or Savings Bond is double taxing. Spurious argument. Typical Rethug bullshit.
Here’s the answer to deficit hawks. Tax and spend. The balanced budget multiplier is 1 (probably more than that); the adjusted deficit multiplier is greater than 1, but not so much greater that simply taxing and spending what you tax wouldn’t do the job almost as well. The anti-deficit talk is just a screen for being against using government to help people. There is a good case for raising spending and tax rates simultaneously; the higher taxes support a higher steady-state debt and thus reassure financial markets. At the very least Obey’s proposal to tax-finance the marginal costs of the Afghan venture should be tax-financed.
Just a tangential point–the idea that “because the society will get poorer over time as all of our stuff gets old” implies that it is good to have new stuff. Our society needs to be consuming less if we want a shot at surviving the crises of global warming and the end of cheap energy.
Yup.
I mark the beginning of the disposable society with the Bic pen. Hey, what a great idea to keep customers, sell them something that gets used up and needs to be replaced.
A friend of mine told me about a company that made the best exercise equipment but they went out of business because they built the things to last…
I often wonder why people need to buy a new car every three years (I don’t) and why we don’t keep more things longer. fwiw.
That was planned. Part of the shrinking the govt policy. Forces all the hard work on the Ds.
o/t kinda, but you live in the SF Bay Area and have just run out of COBRA coverage or are about to, KPIX would like to talk to you if you are willing to share your story.
a little bird told me that.
I thought Cheney kept it off the books, so to speak, by borrowing from China to pay for Iraq. Now that it’s on the books, it’s all Obama’s fault. Do I misspeak?
Yes. Yours is just a specific example of my general point.
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: “CBC Boycotts Final Committee Vote On Financial Reform”
As you said above. Party on while the Republicans are in office, make the Dems clean up the mess and then demagogue about how it’s imperative to get spending under control. That way you can cut taxes when you are in office, and cut spending when the Dems are.
Win/win for the drown government in the bathtub brigade. Happens every stinking time.
We need more long term, bottom up stimulas by lowering the Medicare eligibility age to 55, increasing Social Security benefits and other public program investments, and direct hire public works projects using only domestic resources.
I can’t believe the media allows the constant repetition of the failed “we must cut taxes and spending” conservative mantra, with no follow up question like “how did that work out for Hoover & Mellon”?
If I read Galbraith correctly, and correct me if I’m wrong, the effect of the stimulus is mainly psychological – it promotes consumer borrowing and spending.
I’ve noted a recent report by 3 independent private sector companies who each pointed to an estimated ~1.5-2.5% increase in GDP and similar sized decrease in unemployment relative to rates we would being seeing absent the stimulus. Detractors I’m tangled with respond:
“government pays you to dig a hole and fill the same hole, GDP goes up and unemployment will go down. Afterall, we created a job. However, the job created no value. The government could easily keep expanding and spending money and, in turn, drive GDP and reduce unemployment but this is not sustainable.”
Is the above statement true, but missing the fundamental point Galbraith is making about consumer behavior? Has the GDP increased as a result of a boost from the stimulus after subtracting the GDP contribution that the stimulus represents?
“The deficit myth is all about labeling, and you will note that the same wingers who gave us overwhelming deficit spending are now opposed to it, claiming now it’s a danger to the country.”
First, it’s not a myth: a necessary evil doesn’t stop being evil on account of its necessity. Our kids (and probably their kids) will have a lower-than-expected quality of life with a big chunk of their productivity going to service the debt we incur. Several hundred billion tax dollars per year going not to healthcare, not to infrastructure: just for interest.
Second, after years of listening to the Left rail about Bush’s deficits and brag about Clinton’s surpluses, I guess it would be fair to say that the same left-wingers who protested deficit spending are now in favor of it, claiming now it’s the salvation of the country. I’m not disputing that it’s necessary, I’m just laughing at who you blame for teh “labeling.”
Hmmm. I wonder if that’s why Sears got into financial trouble. I say that because my 28 year old Kenmore microwave just died last week. My family had been after me to buy a new one (just to modernize???). Guess what brand I bought to replace it. No more “planned obsolence” for me. I’ve had enough of that with my Gateway computer. Within the same month, both my monitor and my power supply went bad. I figure that was not a bug, but a feature.
Don’t forget that the Government can also print legal tender, or in these times just create legal money electronically. As long as demand is still slack this won’t cause inflation.
Well, SD, his name is Tinman, isn’t it?
I don’t know anyone claiming that fiscal stimulus is always appropriate; it seems to be a special case when monetary policy is maxed out — Fed interest rates effectively zero, and there is little/no private lending.
The stimulus bill did not just dig holes with no value. Its better parts focused $$ on helping states avoid layoffs of teachers and other public workers; on extending unemployment benefits, food assistance and COBRA subsidies, to allow people to pay rent, buy food, get health care; on infrastructure repairs/replacement; and on increase $$ to dozens of government funded public activities in R&D, etc. These all have value to society. Other parts of the stimulus focused on tax cuts for individuals (AMT fix; Obama’s tax cut to middle class) and businesses (reallocating loses) apparently had much less effect on creating jobs/stimulus.
The record deficit isn’t due to increased spending. CBO estimates from January had spending $28B higher for FY2009 than the actual spending for FY09. Obama cut spending even with ARRA. The deficit grew due to massive decreases in revenue – a bad economy just doesn’t lead to robust tax colletions.
Getting people back to work is paramount, and given the infrastructure needs of the US there’s no shortage of public works to be done. Let’s do the work now.
Thanks Scarecrow, unfortunately some folks missed the point. Mr. Grumpy said:
The analogy can be harmful. The Government isn’t like an individual, or a family, or a business. When we use such analogies we just feed false thinking about what the Government can or cannot do.
The Government can legally create money and jobs that produce valuable goods and services. It can create the money needed to re-build our nation without borrowing anything from anyone. If the Government borrows money that’s only because it chooses to do so.
So the Government doesn’t have to “go into hock” to anyone. It can use the money it creates to facilitate starting new businesses, re-invigorating old ones, and, more generally, re-building America. Once that’s done our kids may well have it as good or better than we have it, since the re-building is likely to take only around 10-15 years (during which we can have full employment if we want i), and since the technological base of the new economy is likely to produce more value.
Right, see this recent seminal blog.
Yes, and with interest rates at very low levels, there couldn’t be a better time to be borrowing to make these needed investments.
that blog is very good. A bit too much detail (!!) for a front page blog, but if it were selectively redacted it would make a fine companion to this post.
Is Sears in trouble again? A while back, they got in over their head in the financial services business, then unloaded it.
Gotta agree. I’m sick of MBA types trying to fit govt into a business model. Govt is not for profit, it exists for the common good. in theory.
I’m also sick of using the stock market as the yardstick for economic success. I’ve witnessed too many profitable businesses going public, only to suffer kneeling before their shareholders who say profitability isn’t good enough.
When the Clintons and Rubin deregulated the banks in 1999 and thereby permitted Citgroup to become a trader and Rubin went to Citigroup and theafter allowed Citigroup to report 800 billion in cash or cash equivalents on its balance sheet in 2007 which shrank to 200 billion in 2008, the Clintons and the rest of their merry party have escaped public repsonsibility for this fraud. Why bail out this fraud?
Not as far as I know. I meant back when KMart was also in bankruptcy, but still purchased Sears. I bought my new microwave from Kmart because it was on my way home from Best Buy, where there didn’t have a microwave I wanted at a price I wanted to pay.
“Don’t forget that the Government can also print legal tender, or in these times just create legal money electronically”
Then why don’t they just fire up the printing presses and run off enough to pay the national debt in it’s entirety, plus an extra 3 trillion so they can send every American a check for $10K? There’ll be a spending boom like the world has never seen!
To all those who favor deficit spending:
Here’s a question: Do you favor China or your grandchildren?
That’s pretty simple, but it’s the key question.
I think a lot of people inside of Government including people like the President, Russ Feingold, David Obey, Claire McCaskill, most all of Republicans, and many more of the Democrats are locked into Herbert Hoover’s view of how money works and also think that money is real wealth. They never really understood or internalized Keynes and they really don’t know how to handle The Great Recession.
I think Jamie Galbraith does and that he should be in Larry Summers’ position, with Joe Stieglitz as Head of the Federal Reserve, and Bob Reich as Secretary of the Treasury. Then we could begin to get some of this horrible mess cleaned up.
I favor my Grandchildren. That’s why I believe in deficit spending on investment in this country for the purpose of creating real wealth here, that they will be able to enjoy. Read this piece on deficit spending. It may clear up some puzzles about the role of money in the economy.
I favor my grandchildren as well. That’s why I buy US debt, so we can fix the public infrastructure of our common heritage. Infrastructure that has been neglected over the past 3 decades.
There’s a good reason that interest rates on 10 year bonds is staying low; default risk is seen as very low and deflation risk is seen as high. If you’ve been shorting Treasuries you’ve been in a world of hurt this year.
I realize that paper (or electronic) money is not “real wealth” which is exactly why I think you’re mistaken that the government can just “create the money needed to re-build our nation without borrowing anything from anyone”