If we only had a genuinely moderate-to-conservative Republican as President, we might have a rational approach to health care reform. This Republican President would approach health reform in the following way:
1. Tell the public that health reform was a fiscal/budget imperative; if we didn’t "bend the cost curve" the federal deficit would explode and their premiums would rise without limit.
2. Demand that any reform be "budget-neutral," and set an arbitrary limit on "costs," irrespective of what it did to the total national health expenditure per person; but do nothing to regulate premiums; extract the revenues by directly or indirectly reducing payments/benefits to current health care recipients.
3. Sympathize with the goal of providing everyone with insurance, and list it as a goal, but not consider any government-based framework that could actually achieve it.
4. Create a "market" mechanism to expand insurance to the uninsured, and funnel federal subsidies for that exclusively through private insurers; claim it enhances "competition," but prevent any public alternative that might put at risk channeling those $$ trillions exclusively through private insurers, and avoid "unreasonable" limits on how much they could skim off the top.
5. Work to ensure private insurers had sufficient flexibility in defining what acceptable coverage was to protect their profitability, irrespective of its effect on those required to purchase their products.
6. Emphasize efforts to "cut costs" and save money, while cutting private deals with drug makers, hospitals and other providers to limit their exposure to cost-cutting mechanisms; delay the effective date and the scope independent commissions and "pilots" designed to reduce payments to providers.
7. Shield all private industries — insurers, manufacturers, hospitals, providers — from competition, anti-trust enforcement or further price regulation.
8. Convince Democrats/liberals/progressives that this was their only chance at health reform — and make it "their bill." Work hard to increase the intra-party split and anger this would cause.
9. Claim credit for enacting "health care reform."
10. Let the Congressional Democrats take the hit in the mid-terms, as the Republican demogogued the bill’s already egregious features to help recapture one or both houses.
Seems a plausible strategy. I’m surprised no one has thought of it.



154 Comments







Clinton ALSO was a “Moderate-to-Conservative Republican President” ; I do appreciate the sarcasm.
What would the country look like if we had a real progressive running the show? How about if we had a strong Progressive Caucus in the House and in the Senate?
So, Jay says to look at the big picture and vote yes; I think that’s what your bottom line was the other day. Or did I misunderstand your?
I too appreciate your sarcasm.
Blessings,
No. Ultimately, everyone has to make a call on the actual choice presented. But not in the middle of a negotiation, with interactions still to come between Senate and House. I assume Rockefeller is saying what he thinks will help get the bill out of the Senate.
Nothing is what it seems.
so what is that isn’t what it seems. But thanks for the other clarifying remark.
RE the sporkovat ? comment at 7; I so wish that your assumptions and expectations several months ago were really true; nothing is as it seems.
I have come to a place where I’d certainly vote for and work for Dean at some level, regardless of his present judgement, which I’m inclined to affirm.
I have no hope for Obama for anything.
My contempt for him and his WH colleaguesis almost as my gargantuan as my contempt for BushCo the previous eight years.
This is a time of heavy grief.
Blessings
what do you think is really going on?
Obama got the deal he wanted. He, Rahm, and Reid are now trying to stuff this shit sandwich down the throats of the Congress. (I would say the country as well but we don’t count)
The basic strategy has never varied either. Paly up to conservative Democrats. Expect the mainline Democrats to follow along. And peel off or cajole enough liberal Democrats for passage.
This process can be disrupted, but it requires that a few liberal Democrats act like they have a pair. We all know how unlikely that is. Sanders and Feingold express their distaste. Sanders even says he will vote against, but neither says they will oppose cloture which is the make or break vote.
Well done scarecrow.
hmmm. I wonder if the unfolding of events calls for a re-evaluation of this estimation?
1 = ha!
2 = ?
3 = well, kind of, a little, teeeny bit
4 = ha ha ha ha! yeah, right!
Ugh. More nonsense that has, as its underpinning, the false notion that Obama is a Kung Fu Master who is playing a big game to win a big win for Progressives.
Sheesh. Obama’s “plan” is what we see in the current senate bill. It is profits for his buttbuddies in big insurance and pharma. It is huge piles of cash rolling into his Republicrat fellow travelers in the Demcrap DLC party. It is also a means of insuring big bucks for himself and his staffers when he is no longer Prez (which will be 2012).
Obama’s plan is as plain as the current senate bill. Suck on that and accept it. He is NOT the man you were hoping for.
dear fellow, the words in my post #7, “this estimation” were they a different color on your screen?
that means they are a link, hyperlink – try clicking on them, with your mouse cursor – and see what happens . . .
voila! they directed you to a post from Scarecrow, engaging in this old thread.
I also had those points 1-4, in a quote box – they were indented, their margins were different, do you know what that means, or implies? It means those were not my words, I was quoting them, from Scarecrow!
that is who you are addressing with your concluding invective – - – though it seems the old Scarecrow has not been back, and the crows are eating all his seeds…
The Big Ed video clip was amazing. Very strong stuff. Ed calls Rahm “a turncoat” and favorably shows Howard Dean saying the Democrats simply are not tough enough. Maybe Rahm did Howard Dean a favor by freezing him out of the White House. Obama’s numbers are down and after this “insurance reform” will drop like a rock. Howard is positioned to primary Obama if he wants to do it.
Has Biden been gagged?
Biden was one of the prime pushers of the new bankruptcy law. He’s a snake in the grass.
Totally. A big drug war pusher.
I agree. There was unanimous agreement on it in AlterNet. I have never seen that before.
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/144626/howard_dean_locks_horns_with_white_house_
Here is a discussion of history that puts it all in place,
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/144599/glenn_beck_defends_founding_fathers'_decision_to_
4 = chortle, chuckle, heh heh heh, still laughing at that one.
Obama wants #4 like he wants to become a Dolly Parton impersonator in San Francisco’s swinging Castro district.
Don’t just refute lowly low status commenters, Scarecrow, refute Glenn Greenwald.
then I think about #1 and start cracking up again – Obama wants to bend the cost curve straight into the insurance cartel’s profit margin!
that whole thread is quite interesting in retrospect . . . pragmatists no doubt will want to pragmatically re-evaluate any positions they advocated that turned out to be, hmmmm, a little too trusting of Democratic policymakers earnest, sincere expressions of concern for the health care plight of ordinary Americans….
for months i thought the plan was to going to be that obama would come in at the last minute and play hero by “saving” a puny nonviable po and dems would cheer and declare victory.
looking more and more like i was very wrong.
First of all we have had so-called moderate conservative Republican Presidents, and they have done nothing on healthcare.
DOES THIS GIVE YOU YOUR ANSWER?
We have also had moderate middle of the road Democrat Presidents, and they did nothing on healthcare.
Maybe we need a independant middle of the road third party President, that isn’t beholding to parties or ideologies.
Either that, or for the American people to wake up and know what’s good for them for a change, instead of keeping supporting what doesn’t work for them.
from outside the (D) captured blogosphere – y’know those crazy folks with their eerie predictive abilities – we have:
The Distant Ocean – Why They’re Worse
this is on point to Scarecrows gentle hypothetical about “How Would a Moderate-Conservative Republican President Do Health Reform?”
well, we could then expect opposition to such a problematic bill from Democratic leadership and affiliated policy wonks, and high profile Bloggers, instead of explicit and implicit support and firm message discipline under direction of the WH.
Your critics are much too harsh. This was a very amusing summary of why Obama owns the Senate health care bill and why he will accept nothing better. I, for one, am sooooooo worried that the country will go bankrupt, not from spending 700 billion (at least) a year on the military-industrial complex, but on the threat of denying the health insurance industry 31 million new customers without any cost bending mechanisms. I might loose some sleep over that tonight, but tomorrow I will know that the country will be saved by all the progressive senators coming to the defense of Obama and his corporate friends. Ron Wyden and Tom Harkin and Dick Durbin and Rockefeller and Shumer – I just love what you are doing to Health Care Reform!
Mister Scarecrow,
about two weeks back (a book salon ?) you laid out your take on him as an old school moderate republican – and it really resonated, like a key turning a lock, making sense of so much consternation – and am pleased I get to to see it fleshed out here
thanks
This is an insult to me, a progressive reader.
This flaccid, torpid, and wholly speculative CRAP needs to be purged as fast as it was posted, which of course was done under the influence of typical democrat emotional distortion.
I utterly reject this sophomoric diary.
Bye.
we have a data point in support of the thesis: romneycare in MA. republican gov and dem legislature. better though in many ways – no stupak amendment, no using medicaid instead of subsidized exchange to extend coverage, no throwing schip kid’s families onto the exchange (i’m pretty sure they go through masshealth which is our medicaid program), regulation of insurance companies not undermined. maybe more, i’ve lost count.
last year i used to call obama a semi-sane republican. now i’m not so sure.
really?
this is what all progressives believe so I have NO idea what you are trying to claim
Has anyone ever seen Obama and former Illinois Senator Charles Percy (R-IL) in the same room?
Ask Jay Rockefeller. He’s Charles Percy’s son-in-law.
Someone recently pointed out that the Nixon plan that Kennedy rejected was much better than even the House draft tri-committee plan before markup.
that wouldn’t be a moderate republican, none exist but it would certainly be their bill
if we mangage to get democrats oposing this bill I will be very surprised if republicans don’t pull obama over the top and pass this bill
this is a corporate boon and the republicans will be instructed to vote for it if the dems mount oposition
would things be worse if mcain/palin had won?
i can’t tell.
I do not believe things would be worse since the democrats would prevent this kind of legislation and jokey for the next election
Considering how the top sides position themselves, we might have been better off. At least there might have been a better fight for us.
so, we need to realise obama is a trojan horse, delivered as a gift by corporate media
we are gonna have a real tough time
Dream on. A moderate conservative candidate no longer exists in the republican party.
All that matters is enriching insurance companies, doctors, and hospitals.
Corporations and the rich over people every day.
White House sends out ah-uhmmmm Axelrod in lightning response on M-Joe this morning.
Even M-Joe’s finally sayin’ it: Obama’s no leftist.
Back to living the healthcare nightmare….
p.s. have I also told you lately that I love Dylan Ratigan? Not all his takes, but boyoboy does he get it on healthcare reform and the predatory banksters of Wall Street and predatory monopolies on healthcare.
What I thought O was all along.
Meanwhile, OT, another prediction of mine proves accurate. U.S. tried to get rid of Karzai puppet, only the plot didn’t work. Mods won’t let me type what the next U.S. plot will consist of.
Jay Rock: dumb rich pimp or rich dumb shill? Fuck him.
Jane’s up on msnbc.
Jane is live on MSNBC right now…
I now realize that exactly what we do have: a genuinely moderate-to-conservative Republican as President.
When the WH talks about “liberals” blowing up the bill, there’s an implication here of whop really IS in th WH.
Some guy on Ratigan this morning saying this bill is a “Framework” for more “change down the road”. yeah, sure , right.
La Hamsher is on Ratigan now.
All the progressive Dems I know locally agree that Bill Clinton was the best Republican president ever.
Can’t wait to ask my hardcore conservative FIL how much he likes his current Republican president…
More evidence. My wingnut son thought Clinton was a decent prez.
i’m all for turning jane into our version of sarah palin.
sans ignorance.
Boo-yah. Just said on my wee blog that everyone should be asking their Congresscritters “Are you with the predators or the people?”
Cited Ratigan, firedoglake as necessary research.
And there be Jane talkin’ to Dylan.
I would eliminate the word “moderate” in the post’s title. “Moderate” and “centrist” don’t mean “where most Americans are” or the mean between two extremes. They mean “the most opportunistic and corrupt” of the corporatists who run this country.
Another interesting OT: U.S. drone software has been hacked by Iranian-backed militants.
“And in a significant change of tone, Stern — who has visited the White House more than any other labor official — called out President Barack Obama for moving away from the promises of his campaign.
President Obama must remember his own words from the campaign. His call of “Yes We Can” was not just to us, not just to the millions of people who voted for him, but to himself. We all stood shoulder to shoulder with the President during his hard fought campaign. And, we will continue to stand with him but he must fight for the reform we all know is possible.
Our challenge to you, to the President, to the Senate and to the House of Representatives is to fight. Now, more than ever, all of us must stand up, remember what health insurance reform is all about, and fight like hell to deliver real and meaningful reform to the American people.”
Here’s something for the Obama administration to consider: If you want to be a centrist, bi-partisan government, then please be prepared to accept criticism from both the right and the left. This is the game you chose to play. Don’t blame the progressives for not playing dead.
playing?
By progressives, I’m not referring to anyone in Congress. I mean people like Howard Dean who refuse to sit down and shut up as requested by the WH.
Criticism from the right is perfectly OK, and all their needs will be met. Criticism from the left, not so much.
Good stagety. It would work too since all those Moderate-Conservative Republican congress people would go along with it under te “leadership” of their Speaker and Senate majority leader. Now, they really don’t like the end product, mind you. Not how they would do it, ya know. But we have to be practical and not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Good stagety.
Did you mean strategy? Or, kabuki?
I’ve heard strategy pronounced as “stragety.”
I’m really pissed about tis whole thing.
are you still cooking stuff or ya done?
And, some adults still say kinnygarten and libary.
I think I’m baked out.
And, I think most folks are disappointed, discouraged and not so Fired Up and Ready To Go.
‘Stra te ger y’ is the one that drive me nuts. I can never figure out if Rachel is making a joke or really thinks it is pronounced that way, at least the error you point out has the right number of syllables.
i assume it’s a joke.
it is, right?
The first time she said it, I thought it was a joke. By the third or forth time … ? I’ve never seen anyone correct her.
yes, of course she knows. i like it. we need nice innocent words like that liberally sprinkled into the insanity of today’s sad and sanctimonious dialogue.
what i want is to see what dictionaries yet to be published will make of the tsunami(s) from twitter…….
save your old copies, die-hard litter-airy freaks. gonna be a long slide to the bottom of the world…
Hi Adie. Long time, no chatty.
Hi backatcha. I lurk on occasion, and my only posts turn into tortured howls at the moon, so it be best if i be mostly silent.
what. a. mess. the world’s in. and we appear to have missed all the exit signs, even though i truly remember joining the warning crowds in the 60′s. today i wanna fill a bucket with sand and stick my head in it, and that’s worlds better than yestidie.
other than that, i’m o.k.
and u?
Oh, as for local news: our 30-somethings/kids now converse often in twitter-eez. sounds hilarious and actually fun, coming from intelligent, kindly folks truly attempting to make a positive difference in the world. twitter genuinely helps them stay sane and in touch with their buddies, so it does have redeeming value after all(!) i wonder if someone should alert the repugnickans. nah!
I’m doing fairly well. Just doing the things that make me happy.
I’m fine with language changing for certain venues. But, other adult conversations, like in the work place should remain conventional. Once, a couple of years ago, a youngish man asked me Who pissed in your Cheerios and I was insulted. I don’t speak to my mother the same way I speak here.
Capiche?
yep
I guess my point was, we should speak the kind of language the other will hear. Like, I wouldn’t speak French to someone who only speaks Spanish.
It’s about respect and how much you want your comments to be understood. I think.
yes. agreed. we also try here too.
Dylan Ratigan singin’ my song on calling out the president for coddling the greedy bankers.
Keep the homelake fires burnin’ today, pups, looks like I’m pullin’ the hosp family time today. Somebody should pull grays Churchill paraphrase from earlier this morning and post to every thread.
Dylan Ratigan singin’ my song on calling out the president for coddling the greedy bankers.
He’s been very consistent about this. Good on him.
He’s got skin in the game because doing this means he’s burning his bridges to financial industry. Gotta’ give him props for that.
He already left cnbc for that reason.
Yup.
ouch! Scarecrow you hit it once again.
But I am so fucking confused. Obama ran on a more humane health care access, talked about busting up the fat cats who take advantage, and absolutely NO MANDATES…NO MANDATES.
So now here we stand, No single payer. No public option. No Medicare buy in.
Dr. Dean (who I have a great deal of respect for), Wendell Potter, Glenn Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, Katrina Van Heudel (sp) “The Nation”. Scarecrow who all understand this process, the bill far more than I do. You folks have determined that there is not enough left in the bill that is a benefit to the uninsured, and a huge give away to insurance companies that have been ripping Americans off for decades through over priced policies.
Then I hear Senator Harkin and Senator Sherrod Brown (who I really trust) tell the public that there is enough in the bill to move it forward. That we may not have another opportunity like this. That we can add additions to this bill later.
What I really do not understand is how can they call a give away to private insurance companies a positive, “moving forward.”
How can they call a “mandate” a positive? Obama ran on NO MANDATES.
I am so confused. Just what the Rethugs want.
Dylan Ratigan is to the left of Bernie Sanders on medical reform.
One of the smartest (from their standpoint) moves the Rethugs ever made was to infiltrate the Democratic Party through the DLC with DLC pukes like Bill Clinton, Joe Lieberman and Barack Obama (among many,many, many others).
Now we have the party of Rockefeller Republicans and the party of right wing fascist freaks.
Heckuva job Billy and Barry…..
But but but, they personally enriched themselves both thru getting into positions of power, and then cashing in on them afterwards. A win-win game for them.
Stupid OT query:
can I substitute apple cider vinegar for white vinegar?
What’s the dish? I think (but I’m a cooking newbie, so my word is not definitive) that cider vinegar has a bit of flavor different from white vinegar. So if that won’t change the nature of the dish, its probably OK.
macaroni salad. but I’m making a ton, give or take 100 lbs. so i don’t want to fuck up that much. if it was less i wouldn’t care
Try making a small amount first, taste it, and then decide about the 100 pounds. Gosh, wtf do you put that much salad in, a used oil drum? *g*
what to put it in? OK I exaggerate. a little. but for me it’s a lot. your question is a good one and the answer is I have no idea. I’m just checkin to see that I have all the ingreediments.
I check recipes before I go shopping, make a careful list, buy everything on the list, get home & find I’ve overlooked a critical one. Kick myself in the behind every time.
See how your working out at the gym is paying off?
Ah, yes, I see your point. Makes it easier to kick myself in the behind. Hadn’t thought of it in that light. *g*
i’ll just let me behind get bigger so it’ll be easier to kick
did i tell you i fucked up my knee? no mo gym for beerfart. no sir.
Oh, no. How bad? Can it be fixed?
Sending you some virtual ben gay.
i don’t know where my white vinegar went. i bought it last time i made this and now i can’t find any. but 3 bottles of apple cider vinegar. don’t know where that came from. i think i just need that. maybe a pepper. and some celery. i better make a list.
Check it twice!
Right! and we all know I’m nice. Except to trolls.
Shame on you. I’m always nice to trolls. I ask them polite Qs that they can’t answer, and then they go away.
hehe. there isn’t a question trolls think they can’t answer, even if they have to make something up. Troll logic is different from our own, and they do things like economics, political science, rationality etc.
You haven’t seen me in action vis-a-vis trolls.
Generally I ignore them unless I can craft a Q to make them go away.
I call them names. I try to think of something different but always wind up using the old stand by’s.
To each his own, or as my niece would say, whatever floats your boat.
I would suggest still going to the gym, just don’t do the leg stuff. You still have shoulders, a back, arms and a stomach to keep in shape. I’m pretty sure.
But it’s been a great excuse to stay home.
massochist
Masochist sez to sadist “hit me.” Sadist sez “No.”
thanx. i 2 lazy to bother spell checque
i hope you’re doing well.
tell all yer new trees we wish them a safe and quiet winter. ;->
Got the trunk guards on all the young trees so the deer don’t eat the bark, and have painted the bottoms, which I am told prevents the rogents from girdling them under the snow. Keeping my fingers crossed.
I bet it tastes better, what else is in it?
i’d vote for cider in yer brave humongous dish.
a little cider v.’s also wonderful in mayo-ey potato salad. i think i learned that from dear Julia Child. I miss her…
sure… if ya don’t mind the more robustiful flavour. s’pose it might work in polly ticks as well? sigh… ;->
Yes.
Do we support this bill and hope it can be improved upon , or do we kill it and wait another generation to make another attempt ?
Boy this really sucks !
hopefully those aren’t the only options. The call as I’ve heard it, is to kill the Senate version, not the bill altogether. The message we have to deliver as activists to the Senate is twofold:
1 there will be a political price to liberal/progressive Dems who support the bill as is. Such Dems can expect to lose grassroots fundraising access to the base and to face serious primary challenges whenever possible.
2 liberal/progressive Dems can only expect to return to our good graces if they immediately I introduce a new bill and begin work on an acceptable Senate version immediately. Dropping hc reform after the Liebercare dabacle fails is not an option.
The president is the one has to face the risk that nothing gets passed and that, therefore, his first term is about to be declared a failure and he facing a one term presidency. Hopefully, once liberal/progressive Senators put the matter to him in such stark terms, he will realize he has only one choice – jam a decent compromise down the throats of the conservadems to pass this thing. We went at this backward the first time around.
I know I’ve put this simplistically and idealistically. We now have to turn all this theorizing into a real strategy of opposition to kill the Bad Bill and create a Good Bill… but this is the only way I see this working. Failure is not an option.
It would seem like a great waste of time to give up now. I just can’t support the current version of this bill
Gosh, now even Bernie Sanders is getting thrown under the bus.
Dean is the new hero, altho last week when he supported the medicare
expansion, he was reviled as a tool of the health care industry.
This is a tough crowd.
Jane sez the vernacular for what Dean is doing is yo-yo.
I for one have not forgotten Dean’s cheerleading of Obamacare up to last week. But it is good that he is finally speaking out against it. If he were a Senator right now, would he vote against cloture. I don’t know. As far as I know, Sanders hasn’t said he would go this route. It’s a question of what each can do given their current positions. Sanders needs to say he will vote against cloture. Otherwise he is all just words.
Obamas problem is – Insurance companies employ people. Pharma companies employ people. Doctors and nurses and hospital staff are people.
Every dollar spent on health care goes to people, maybe too much goes to rich greedy CEO people, but 17% of the US economy is health care.
In this economy Obama doesn’t want to cut anything. That’s why the backroom deals. He’d like to give more people health care without raising costs, but that’s like driving a car and having the gas tank over flow.
You don’t get something for nothing.
It is a question of bang for the buck. The size of healthcare is large in this country as a percent of GDP. But that doesn’t mean we have a good healthcare system or are employing people in a useful way.
Besides, businesses don’t employ people, the customers of the businesses are the real source of employment.
Indeed. GDP denotes nothing of value whatsoever. You can get the GDP up by firing lots of people and taking the temporary “earnings” that ensue. You can get the GDP up by outsourcing virtually your entire workforce.
GDP is not a measure of anything but corporate greed. It has no more to do with true economic health than does the stock market.
Wrong on all counts. Healthcare costs are a DRAIN on the economy, not a source of economic growth. This is particularly true vis a vis for-profit insurance companies: the ONLY business model based on “give us your money and in return…profit! We will do our utmost to NOT provide you any service at all in return. We will fight you tooth-and-nail for every little penny. When you REALLY get sick, blam! You are dropped baby! PROFIT ABOVE ALL ELSE!”
Kill insurance companies and there is still plenty of room for unparasitic profit in healthcare. Of course, you need to kill off big pharma too by opening our borders to competition. All banning drug reimportation will do is get more people to drive to Canada or Mexico to do the importing directly themselves. And properly so.
I’m going to assume this is an overexageration.
Since I stated that doctors and nurses are people, for you to be right, doctors and nurses would have to be other than people.
The jury is still out on whether doctors and nurses are people or a natural resource.
However in your elegant defense of the insurance business as an essential employer you fail to address the point that they exist to skim 30% of premium income and give it to high level management and shareholders. Structured as, what they really are, a public utility with defined low or my preference non-profits they would still be major employers and apply premiums where they should go.
Insurance really is a social contract among the many. In the case of health care virtually all of us sooner or later require it. Everyone pays into it, contemporaneously paying for the ill at that moment, but with the assurance that in the future it will be there thanks to those who are then paying but not utilizing.
I think the most profound comment Howard Dean made last night is that when the aim of the legislation is to preserve private insurance companies in their current form, this is what you get.
We simply cannot continue to operate with a government whose sole purpose is to preserve plundering corporations.
Yeah, but it isn’t economically or fiscally wise to hand over what’s left of the US economy to corporations who are taking far too much from it already and giving little back; that’s what got US here in the first place; predatory, unregulated capialism.
And this disaster has happened in less than 10 years since the repeal of Glass-Steagal. That’s all the time it took.
It would be MUCH better to create jobs that employ more people at less salary renumeration.
I read a report last night ( can’t find it) that was talking about a hospital with 900 beds and the hospital had 900 bureaucrats in the basement filling out insurance forms.
That the insurance corporations and the HMO’s take over a third of any monies they get for administration and fraudulent billings,etc, ad nauseum.
They provide poor care or nothing at all and if this bill is passed without getting rid of the anti-trust exemption which has already been taken out, thy will continue as they are now doing…raising premiums.
On a personal note, the treatment for my medical condition just went up from $3000 every 3 months to $5800 every 3 months for NO GOOD REASON.
I can’t imagine Medicaid will do this much longer and I will be without this stuff which enables me to function.
At least Congress passed the spending bill, one of the only decent things they’ve done so far…to little fanfare, a couple of weeks ago…maybe it will help keep these programs going as well as the state governments if they don’t spend it on other stuff
More Liberal falsehoods and propaganda. Here’s what a real moderate-conservative president would ask for:
1. TORT reform! Stop the lawyer thieves and petty lawsuits from killing our doctors and insurers.
2. Open state borders for insurance. Allow citizens to shop insurance carries out of state, where it may be cheaper.
3. End the rediculous mandates on current insurance and open it up for “piece-meal” style policies. Give control BACK to the consumer on what he/she wants and needs. If you want only catastrophic coverage, buy only catastrophic coverage (I’d rather save $300 a month in premiums, and pay my doctor the $50 a year for my annual checkup, thank you very much).
4. Remove an insurers ability to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions!
5. MEDICAL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS!
6. Tax credits to low-income earners to help, or completely pay for their health coverage!
7. Organize an all out assault on Medicare to weed out the rampant corruption and waste!
How Would a Moderate-Conservative Republican President Do Health Reform?
1. War with Iran
Is there even a reason to vote anymore? Both sides enact pretty much the same corporate-centric policy’s.
Bill Clinton was a moderate Republican. It’s starting to look like Barack Obama is a full-blown, non-moderate Republican.
And as such, I’m sure that even if we get a few liberal Democrats to try to block the bill, miraculously, just enough Republicans will defect to make sure this monstrosity gets inflicted on the American people.
I don’t buy the “this is a building block for future reform” argument for a second. That’s what they said about Medicare and it’s only been underfunded and reformed for the worse.
I was listening to Thom Hartmann yesterday, and he had an interesting take on Obama. He said Obama thought he could get in there and govern like Clinton did. He brought in all the old Clinton people and proceeded to do so. However, what Obama and the old Clintonistas don’t realize is that the Great Recession (or Depression) of 2008 woke people up. It’s not like the 1990′s, when people were semi-asleep. That, plus the power of the internet, have changed all the dynamics and the Clinton Regime isn’t working anymore. I agree with his take.
Actually, Clinton had an economic tool in the development of the Internet to get people working on innovative technology that created a lot of jobs for him.
Bush woke people up.
And because we won’t/can’t go green and develop cutting edge technology here in the USA because Bush subsidized corporations with our money to take themselves and our technology off shore.. it seems we will be left behind in this vital area. Hell alot of American still believe climate change isn’t happening…sometimes I wonder if Obama believes it.
We don’t have a “new thing” to develop jobs here…except enriching corporations.
This is classic “Shock Doctrine” and it’s only the leading edge. I suspect if this “health reform” passes in it’s current state, it will help finish the job of totalitarianism in America
Good point, and here is his op-ed making the point.
Today Thom made a further point. Bush’s Medicare Part D was designed to cripple Medicare by keeping HHS from controlling the costs of the entitlement it created (no negotiation of drug prices; no formulary). The goal was to make the entitlement so expensive that it would ultimately kill Medicare. Thom then went on to say that this is exactly what Obama and Congress are now in the process of doing on a grander scale. It would, I think, be almost charitable to call them stupid.
I wondered if such an ulterior motive should be added to Scarecrow’s list, but what’s already listed pretty much covers the point.
he wants to get rich like a certain other center-right former president we remember.wallstreet will set him up with lucrative lecture tours and other perks when he leave office in 2013. that’s why he needs the senate to pass a healthcare bill. any healthcare bill for that matter. afther all it’s about his legacy.
Googling: white vinegar vs. cider vinegar, it seems white vinegar is mostly for cleaning and cider vinegar for cooking.
great! cheaper. that’s what I wanted to hear. Thanks hugh!
I think it can also be made out of petroleum products too, but I might be rusty on that, so cider vinegar would avoid that, if you care.
We have mandated coverage here in Mass. . There are also generous subsidies for low to middle income families.
The rest of us pay the rate the insurance co’s charge. I don’t see any downward movement for premium costs though. A family plan HMO with low co -pays and prescription coverage is still running around $1200-$1400 per month.
As a self employed person this is an expense I can ill afford. I am wondering though ,will I be assessed a penalty from the state and federal government ? A double whammy so to speak? If that’s the case keep your lousy bill !
Really? I present a valid alternate proposal, and this is all you can come up with?
there is a serious moderate response, btw. I’m not advocating for it of course and I don’t think it’ll work, but there is one theoretically that isn’t pure sarcasm: a proposal to regulate insurers like a utility, with reimbursement rates and premia set by a newly created FERC-like body, indexed to inflation and so forth. It’ll address the cost issue, but probably be miserable for consumers.
They would’ve suggested something like this if they weren’t all bribed.
do not engage
Watching the vote on Bernanke on cspan3. Gotta say that, while Bunning doesn’t get all his economics right, he makes the case against Bernanke.
no.
salad dressing.
heh.
Merkley is using Ratigan’s fireman putting out the fire analogy.
I am guessing a Republican president now just wouldn’t do it.
But Nixon tried more than once to get universal healthcare through.
Now we’re fighting and distracted over kibble. Can’t wait for this Senate bill to die.
have a great day folks… within specs of course. stay tough. i gotta go.
p. e. a. c. e.
The excuses of those who are going to vote for Bernanke are divorced from reality. What else is new.
“Mr. Personality”
Ed is too funny.
I have to remember that one the next time I hear Rahm’s name.
ROFLMAO!
WORD! Ah, my sides, my sides! How come I hear this as a Monty Python sketch? No, come to think of it, that’s John Oliver I’m hearing.
That’s a perfect enumeration of the myths with which we’re getting jacked. I bow deeply at the waist in your virtual direction.
In case you aren’t hip to the power of myths: to jack electorates to hell and stick them with the bill both ways; Rachel Maddow had two segments on this last night.
Health reform opponents resort to digital dirty tricks
GOP unrestrained in health reform opposition
The first features the work of propagandist Rick Berman and other astroturfers.
The second segment features blatant use of weaponized mythology. First is a “prayer-cast” to stop health care reform. And then we see that C Street cult member Sam Brownback is listed just ahead of Lou Engle, who is shown preaching the apocalypse and then slipping in the politics. It’s an explicit use of the most powerful beliefs of a voting bloc to jack them to hell.
From c. 4:40-5:10 in the “GOP unrestrained” segment, you can see Engle training his audience to become martyrs:
As one with a BA in psychology, I recognize those techniques. They’re based on studies that show getting someone to make a statement, even in favor of something they actually oppose, can change attitudes and thus behavior. With this propaganda, they’re making attacks, even suicidal ones, far more likely.
This is why I say, jacking public opinion with carefully scripted myths is the state of the art in manufacturing consent.
BTW, Obama is using it too. His West Point and Nobel speeches were chock full of myths designed to jack us into ever more war. “Lieberman did it” is another case in point.
Exactly!!
Emptywheel has a fresh cross-post up: “The MyBarackObamaTax”
Just the same as Chimpy and his band of liars tried and are still trying today.. Nothing has changed with this strategy except now the loons in the republican camp want ALL government influence and subsidy to go away.
OK..the timing would be great…The whole private enterprise system as we know it would collapse in 2010… Hello stone age.. Let’s rock..
Nice try, but no dice. No matter what they say, no matter what they do, the answer is always the same: National health care. We need National Health Care, run by the government. We do. And, all the rest is just fluffing up the pillows. Give people a chance to have preventive care, we’ll save some money; give people a chance to pay some higher taxes to cover their health care, they’ll gladly pay it. The lies about nationalized health care are ludicrous, but then, the “progressives” haven’t made the case very well to support it, have they? I’ve had government run health care all my life–under the military! It’s been fantastic, no problems. If I need a pap smear, I make an appointment. I don’t always get the doctor of my choice, but what the hell, it’s free. I want a prescription, I pay about $7 for it at the base pharmacy; it’s free to active duty.
This bill is an abomination. And, when the people realize what the DEMOCRATS did to them, they’ll be furious. Obama is the worst president since George W. Bush. Fancy that. People are even starting to think G.W. looks good now.
‘Moderate Conservatism’, you suggest?
No, it is naked Corporatism. Corporations as inherently more valued and important and influential than people — the citizens. Put that label on these strategies and all of a sudden it makes perfect sense.
Say one thing for public consumption. Meanwhile do something entirely else — actions and policies which would never have won elections. I think the corporations have learned the lesson and truly don’t care what the politicians say, as long as they deliver.
We sheep, meanwhile, continued to be fooled and distracted by pretty baubles and false promises. Plus, now that the taudry Tiger Woods scandal seems to be petering out, we’re about due for the next Celebrity Crisis to help fill the 24 hour ‘news’ cycle.
You’re a progressive and you support Conservativism?
They must ALL GO.
This is not a debate.
Unlike you, this is not my 1st picnic…
BYE.
p.s. Goodbye…
oops, “conservatism”.
Goodbye.
I just drew a sketch inspired by Scarecrow’s outline and submitted it to Abu Dhabi, which is now holding its annual Camel Beauty Pageant.
There’s just one problem. The camel lacks a nose.
A moderate conservative would reform health insurance, (care) the following way.
Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Ayn Rand
If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject.
Ayn Rand
Get the employer out of the insurance. Each individual must be responsible for his/her mecical coverage. Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines and remove all government regulations and mandates. One would be able to put together the policy they need, as they can do with car ins. Next, get lawyers out of the medical care business. Tort Reform is needed. Lets get this country back to the fundamentals of our constitution, back to our foundation of freedom and liberty. With freedom comes responsibility and we have lost that self determination. Progressives, MAN UP and be free
Sounds like you’ve been practicing home psychosurgery, kumari. I thought we were supposed to be freeing ourselves of men, now you want us to man up?
As for dropping AR on FDL–puhleez, like that’s gonna work. The phrase, “mosquito biting an iron bull” mean anything to you?