Responding to the growing frustration that the government isn’t doing enough and/or is deferring too much on BP to stop the gushing oil, Admiral Allen had this to say:
“They have the eyes and ears that are down there,” the admiral said on CNN’s “State of the Union" television news program. “They are necessarily the modality by which this is going to get solved.”
Yet for all the frustration and chest thumping for government to "do something," when you boil it down, about the only non-crazy "new" idea is that authorities gather a bunch of smart people and see if they have or can come up with an idea how to stop this thing that hasn’t been/isn’t being tried. As if that isn’t happening. The fact that industry experts on their own blogs don’t seem to have more ideas goes unnoticed; there must be quick solutions, we assume, so there’s blame to be allocated for not doing it.
Only if we’re lucky.
Peter Daou is right that we think Bruce Willis is out there, and through heroic action, he can save us. Next?
The moment to stop this was in the permit stage, and before that, in the planning/EIS approval stage — it’s called the "no project" alternative — and before that, the decision that we should/must lease OCS for deepwater drilling, and way before that in the mindless chatter we call an "energy debate" that assumes there is no realistic alternative to drill more, drill now, drill forever. Drill, baby, drill has been US energy policy for more than a century.
But we don’t know whether this is the only option unless we ask the question. So far, neither our unimaginative President’s Commission nor Congressional oversight hearings are willing to ask the only question that matters. These efforts seem rather intended to limit our thinking, to divert us from asking whether an expanding oil/carbon future is the only serious and plausible path.
Show me a government-sanctioned commission/task force whose mandate is to produce a 10-20-year plan to have a different future, along with a set of credible transition steps for getting from dependence on more OCS drilling to something that makes it not just unwise but unnecessary.
Then tell me what that means for transportation and for the cars we build and how we use them. Tell me what it means for the chemicals we use for everything we carry, wear, sit on and listen to. What does it mean for how we make/use appliances and we build our homes. If we must electrify transportation, from personal autos to mass transit, tell me what that means for the electricity sector, for the plants we build and the fuels they use, and then for the jobs to be transformed from no longer extracting and burning carbon. How would we move and where/how would we work and how would we live? Then let’s make a choice. But to give us a choice, you have to present that choice.
America does not have an alternative future from the Gulf horror, based on an alternative energy base, and there are no serious efforts to create one.
There is only a massive, uncontrolled spill, threatening life in and around a huge Gulf, the inevitable and inevitably repeatable result of a lack of imagination and a lack of political motivation to think we could be and do something different. It’s insulting when our officials ask us to accept that.



148 Comments







“Show me a government-sanctioned commission/task force whose mandate is to produce a 10-20-year plan to have a different future, along with a set of credible transition steps for getting from dependence on more OCS drilling to something that makes it not just unwise but unnecessary.” ; yeah such would be nice BUT long range planning doesn’t fit with the culture.
Except when the issue of Social Security is brought up and then they want to project out 75 years.
“It’s insulting when our officials ask us to accept that.” ; yeah BUT they are used to doing that -insulting the populace- and the populace (for the majority part,apparently) doesn’t appear to mind such. Ohterwise we would be ‘taking it to the streets‘ .
I don’t know about this oil disaster but it’s entirely possible to stop future ones but that would require the courage to tell big oil to f*ck off and to spend some money weening ourselves off of their product.
Did Bruce Willis vote aye on health insurance reform? /s
Well, BP gets to call the tune, they were early investors in Brand Obama, and he owes them significant deference, apparently.
from Reuters
As to why that is? Because for the (D) captured ‘progressives’ that know we need alternative energy infrastructure, voting Least Worst is always Good Enough!
Great article. Thank you.
I think it’s too late for this one.
I hope I’m wrong.
I foresee environmental/wildlife degradation, mass health crises, and food-cost inflation throughout the SE US, evoking the former GDR or scenes from the movie Children of Men.
I sure hope I’m wrong.
Who’s got a boot on the neck of who? It seems clear that the fascist BP is the big shit-kicker in the room. They care about the rest of us just enough to have us approve and subsidize their fascist takeover.
End low bid contracts and speed rather safety the safest measures we can think of must be used to get oil now.
The oil industry don’t like it we point out how many millions of gallons of oil they have lost so far.
Someone who has been watching the live cam says major eruption happening now:
http://monkeyfister.blogspot.com/2010/05/major-change-down-below.html
Is it possible that as a species we don’t have the ability to come to terms with what is happening in the gulf. Or the cause of why it happened. I look at how many different kinds of entities and organizations have been fleeced by the banksters. How many were really smart people? I mean, we are really smart people. The only thing that I have been able to do about the situation is to change the configuration of my butt. It is bigger from sitting at the computer for longer periods of time.
Denmark is doing a $40,000 tax break for electric cars why reinvent the wheel. Of course we would need more wind, solar and hydro power and to rebuild the electric grid but that means jobs!
Thank you Andrea for informing us on what we sensible people on the left have been saying for decades. You are correct on one other thing, this administration is just as much responsible for this mess as the Bush administration. They kept the same people in place from the Bush administration, allowed them to continue business as usual, and adopted the same hands off approach to regulation. Why, because of the millions of dollars Obama received from the oil and gas industry for his presidential campaign. Very few people, if any, point to this as the real problem when discussing the many disasters that have befallen America in the last 30 years. Some now admit that the deregulatory policies of both Democrats and Republicans have led directly to these disasters, both economic and now this oil spill. Miraculously, Salazaar defended the President’s positon on off-shore oil drilling even after the devastation caused by BP. Does that tell you just how out of touch with reality our political establishment is with what’s really happening out there. It’s no surprise BP knows more than the federal government, because they have literally written the rules under which they are regulated, and have staffed all government agencies with loyal industry supporters. When will someone in the mainstream media finally address the real issue with all of our problems, a president and congress in the grip of industries and who have done their bidding. I blame the BP and other industries only as far as they are doing what they are allowed and mandated to do, which is to seek profit at all costs, which in itself is immoral and unethical. Problem is, we knew what they would do, that’s why we have a government to provide regulation and oversight, which, unfortuantely, it no longer sees as its duty and responsibility. Obama’s commission will do as all presidential commissions do, a cover up disguised as an investigation, and then propose non-binding solutions, which will never become law. But while his commission is sitting around having an academic discussion about the oil spill, millions of lives will be destroyed in the process because it can do nothing to STOP THE DAMNED OIL FROM FLOWING! We the people, and our well being, no longer matter to our political establishment.
The same bunch who poo-poohed an oil spill like this also like to reassure us nuclear power is safe.
When it fails, can you afford the consequences?
http://homepage.eircom.net/%257Eodyssey/Quotes/Life/Science/Collapse.html
Good question I don’t know why but Jared Diamond would agree that we are facing that problem as a society now.
Either the Greens win this battle or we all lose.
From the NYT article, I’m struck by this:
If the commission were asked to answer that question, a likely finding could be: “We can’t give you that assurance.” But it doesn’t seem the directions to the Commission anticipate that question or answer, let alone asking, “what now?”
BP is lying to Obama and Obama listens because they gave him cash. We need to end all lobbying and any business giving giving campaign contributions to politicians.
BP and big business can over sandwiches peanut butter not steak explain to Congressmen and the President their position.
We pay our politicians they don’t need bribes.
Yes, and the US is throwing lots of money at different ideas — tax credits for wind/renewables, energy efficiency, etc, but I don’t get the sense that it’s in furtherance of any comprehensive plan to get to a defined alternative future. It’s more like, let’s provide some limited funding to all this other stuff and see what develops. In the meantime, they’re spending much more on sustaining what we already have.
There is a contradiction in this statement. An industry is nothing more than a collection of individuals. This does not give them a mandate to destroy things. I am really tired of hearing that corporations are just doing what they are supposed to do-make money. I hate to said it this way cause it is all soilent greenie but corporations are people, too.
Other than that I like your comment.
No kidding. and you can bet THAT’S in the works right now too.
Obama can move fast when his mahsters crack the whip…and that would not be us.
Over at Digby people are talking about a feeling of helplessness.
Part of this is because nobody in the media or in politics want to really challenge big corporations. Think about the whistle blowers who do. They get crushed.
This crisis, like the financial crisis, is about the inability of anyone to stop corporations in their goal to make short term profits.
Everyone is afraid of them. And rightly so. We’ve seen the fictional movies and the real stories about the whistle blowers. Think about how Wall Street attacked the one guy who was hurting them and challenging them. It’s not a secret who set him up,
In American we still wait to have the heart attack to slow down and eat right, we wait until we hit rock bottom to stop drinking. We NEED the dramatic to act. What is tragic is that we don’t actually act anymore after the event (with the exception of the OVER reaction of 9/11).
Why is that? Because everyone is afraid of the corporations and nobody is afraid of the media, the law or the people.
But we’ve always done it this way…
Kill the well, not the Gulf.
Save our economy, not BP’s.
Years of environmental disasters all over the US, endless litigation, settlements, double digit deaths through negligence, broken promises to
fo things right, and they still operated with reckless impunity.
They deserve to lose this investment. They’ve earned every bit of it.
My bold
Notice the lower price if GM won’t boost production on the Volt other countries will fill the void.
They know Drill Baby Drill even if Sarah Palin had her way won’t save us.
They know the elite in America are isolate from the effects of change and pursuing short term profit over real long term solutions.
http://homepage.eircom.net/%257Eodyssey/Quotes/Life/Science/Collapse.html
They plan to be there waiting if we fail to fix our problems today.
Agreed we need a plan the free markets can’t do it.
“I think that if there is even a 1% chance that an undersea oil well will blow up we need to act as if they all will!”
-Dick Cheney.
/Wait. What? Never mind.
I think the people are going to have to lead on this. Our overlords are not going to do anything to make the needed changes. It is up to us.
I am thinking about this all the time, but I am not schooled in what to do. I just know that the marine paint that I was using this week comes in part from the dying Gulf. I know I won’t be using this paint in the future, if I want to see the change we need.
How interesting that Goldman Sachs is one of the top ten institutional holders of BP stock, at over 6 million shares.
It is shocking that Goldman Sachs is always, ALWAYS, right smack in the middle of disaster capitalism. And we all know: Goldman Sachs never loses in its bets.
And I predict that as long as there is money to be made in disaster capitalism, we will see no changes in our lifetimes.
True. The disasters will continue, and we will be forced to give everything, be squeezed harder and harder until there is nothing left to give. I don’t know what the power and greed people will do then. There will be no one around to do any work for them.
Remember after 9/11 Bush told us to go shopping? And how some people went to give blood?
We should ask Bush what we should do, he will at least tell us what the wrong thing to do is.
There are periods in our history where we made deliberate choices to have a different future, or at least change the vector of history. I think California did that in the last 70′s early 80′s — by working hard to reduce gas/electricity demand via efficiency standards and utility retrofit investments and create generation alternatives that were not coal, not nukes. It followed through and made a difference. So I’m optimistic that change can happen, just not optimistic that our present “leadership” wants to do that or knows how hard you have to work at it.
WTF?
Good Gods! The whole sea floor is collapsing!
This is horrible news for Goldman there is no way BP avoids future higher costs from new safety rules on new oil drilling.
There is no way BP gets away without a huge fine and lawsuits. The longer the oil leaks the more those numbers go up.
If Florida has to close their beaches then the price of the lawsuits goes way up and we start talking seriously about taking BP’s assets to pay for it all.
While this is bad for Goldman I welcome it.
Looks like BP’s next attempt will be to stop it leaking rather than trying to recover it for sale. This should have been the plan from day 1. Instead, they have ruined the Gulf of Mexico through greed and inaction.
Hey, this is going on a little long for my attention span.
scary.
Since my parents and siblings are in New Orleans I tend to get really wiggy about what might happen. Could there be a huge explosion from the gas?
I’d be more concerned about the infrared trapping potential in the release of all of that CH4. In fact, I am!
“30% of US oil production.” So, what? It’s not OUR oil.
It goes on the open market. The oil company profits, they manipulate prices, Wall St speculators profit, and US tacpayers get to pay subsidies to the oil companies. In return, we get to pay again after they trash the environment and the courts rule in their favor. And yet again because they rarely pay taces. (Exxon paid zero taxes for 2009)
So, who gives a shit if they drill in the GOM?
http://monkeyfister.blogspot.com/2010/05/major-change-down-below.html
So more oil leaking out faster than before we will need new estimates and the junk shot will have to be delayed or canceled.
Noblejoanie I think you have the News Catch of the day.
Well, I’m cynical enough to think the junk shot is just more theater. If anything will work, it’s the relief wells and I’m dubious even that will work under these conditions.
I would love to be proved wrong.
I think of ALL the people this is going to affect, but i sure wouldn’t want to have loved ones in NO right now.
This is awful, just awful
How are they gonna deal with a sea floor collapse?
did you see this:
“UPDATE: The riser pipe used to be pretty clean in it’s top. Now, it is piled over with sediment.
Something had happened to the dispersant mechanism, too. Pipes and connectors got knocked loose, liquid was pouring out of the machine, and we watched the ROV repair the leak. Seabed seems to have sunk rapidly. Riser end is now in a big crater.”
Yeeks!
This is the price we (as a society) all pay for paying more attention to what Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan are doing then BP and Exxon.
or Obama.
That’s not just the smell of oil in the air it’s the smell of revolution.
The BP live feed was like a black blizzard for a while and now it looks more under control. What’s up with that?
You noted a couple plausible reasons for this feeling, but absent was the idea that perhaps almost everything we do to try and exert influence is by and large completely divorced from any thorough logical analysis of efficacy, and instead rallies around the constantly renewed churn of having to just do something?
Can we out lobby, out advertise, or out spend Big Oil? That’s the game we’re still being tasked with playing. Even if we could by some miracle manage to do so, are there any remotely effective measures of accountability to guarantee it actually buys us anything?
Every organization under the sun is incessantly pan-handling to try and raise money for some new ad, some new politician, etc. Constantly trying to raise money to out-play the existing powers at their own game. A game which they rig in their favor, own the officials, and get to write the rules as they go. A game in which every move we make, every play we coordinate, materially deprives us for no discernable gain, yet simultaneously materially enriches and benefits the very opponents we’re facing.
Maybe the helplessness comes from a recognition that we can’t possibly be victorious at a game that’s designed to ensure our defeat, yet we’re unable or unwilling to work outside that which is established, obvious, and comfortable? What will be the outcome of an advertising arms race with the established powers? What of a campaign contributions race?
NPR is reporting on the Battle of Gettysburg…Always On top of the latest.
This followed by the legend of Duffy’s cut, 1832. And changes on Jupiter. Got to keep abreast of the news you can use.
Agreed and the relief wells might work but if a crater opens in the sea floor as oil leaks out then its very possible as more oil leaks out the crater and the oil leaks might get bigger increasing the oil flow even faster.
We might not have time to drill relief wells.
Did the sea floor collapse today?
Apparently, it’s quite possible.
It is widely known in the oil industry and by geologists that the venting of large amounts of methane gas combined with the deterioration of the crystalline, methane hydrate layer (which lies directly above the methane gas) can result in a collapse of the sea floor. The Gulf of Mexico seems especially prone to this, as the sea bed is full of craters thought to be from this type of methane release-induced collapse.
As a libertarian, I would say this is actually the exact time to utilize eminent domain. The people leased one resource to BP/transocean/halliburton, the mineral rights to the oil field. They did not follow safety regulations (as a partnership), and thus are all responsible. However, their motivation thus far has been to allow damage to other resources (our oceans, fisheries, and coastline) in an effort to salvage the oil field operation.
The government should seize the rig, revoke the lease, inform BP/transocean/halliburton that they will be footing the entire bill, and immediately employ whatever tactics are necessary to cap the well. Fuck them, they do not need to be:
. BP could share information leading to this goal, but Exxon, Chevron, Schlumberger, or Koch should have been enlisted to see that the operation is completed in a timely manner.
Our president talked alot about accountability on the campaign trail. This is an executive matter, not a political matter. He needs to do what is necessary to end this disaster expediently.
From your link in the prologue: “However, Icelanders eventually learned from experience, adopted rigorous measures of environmental protection, and now enjoy one of the highest per-capita national average incomes in the world. ”
Irony reigns supreme.
Richard Haas of CFR said that GS should be in charge of the government. Henry Paulson GS fraudster also gave us disaster ecology. The Nature Conservancy, was also run by Paulson. British Petroleum gave $10 million to the Nature Conservancy.
The Nature Conservancy website actually has 3 ways to help with the Obama Oil spill. 1) Share the stories 2) Make a Donation 3) Be a volunteer
And do not forget to celebrate world turtle day.Did I mention BP made a $10 million dollar donation?
Is that all? 70 G’s? Seriously, there has to be other motivation. What did it cost him to mount his campaigns?
It isn’t one man or one party. It’s endemic to American politics. Big corporations call the tune, and the politicians dance. How much did BP contribute to everyone else, and how much has big oil contributed to both parties over the past 10 years? For that matter, how much have big pharma, the health care “industry” and the bankers doled out to politicians in Washington? Lobbying for the health care bill alone appears to have kept our banks flush with new deposits the last 2 years (other than, of course, all of the illicit money being laundered there — gotta love our priorities).
We have to extract the parasite or it’ll simply bite us somewhere else. It’s absolutely imperative we get corporations out of Washington.
Ah,c’mon Things; you know they have their asses covered via simple hedging and the derivative markets.
Just saw a history channel (yeah,I know) doc titled ‘boomtime’ where the statement was made that federal intervention in distributing water in the west meant more than all the cowboys,etc. meant in the development of the west. And pointed out how Mulholland’s bringing of Owens valley water to LA basically saved LA as a city.
Pumping heavy mud and concrete, using explosives to seal the well. These were options that should have been up and running from the first, not a month on. You can also ask why the government didn’t start building its own subs when it began signing off on these leases. The shoddy work done on the rig and laughable regulatroy oversight did not help. Greed was the overriding priority, and this is what unbridled greed produces.
With the economy teetering on depression, peak oil at hand and peak energy only a few years beyond that, and global climate change blowing past tipping points, we could use the current situation to re-industrialize the country, put people to work, building a sustainable and green economy, redesigning our communities, transportation, and energy production to address these new realities. But I say this again and again, our elites don’t care about tomorrow. They don’t care about building anything sustainable. They only are concerned about today and what can be stolen now. That’s it. They have completely lost any sense of governance. They can fix nothing. They are too corrupt to reform or surrender power to those more competent. I would like to say the situation is retrievable. But it isn’t as long as they are in power. I fear we are headed toward depression, collapse, and revolution.
You haven’t been wrong yet, my friend.
I thought drilling relief wells to backfill the wellhead with mud was the main plan to stop the gusher. That takes months to accomplish, as was said at the beginning. Has that plan been dropped? Seems implied here.
Yes, it is the case that relief wells are being drilled. From May 17:
Any speech, statement, or utterance, with the word “modality” in it, is guaranteed to be pure, unadulterated, bullshit.
Not true. They’re looking at the same video we are, presumably. No advantage there. When you’re dealing with a problem no one has dealt with before, it’s generally a good idea to brainstorm with the best. Problem is their first priority has been to save the well and they’ve wasted a month figuring out no can do while trying to conceal the severity of the problem by using a toxic dispersant in which they have a financial interest.
I ain’t buying what the dude with the boards on his shoulder is saying and I doubt he is either.
The thing I’m worried about is the signs that the seabed is collapsing. That causes tsunamis.
There’s a site for GRIT that includes most of the local wetlands and coastal restoration groups plus the big two national groups.
http://www.lagulfresponse.org/
Here’s a diagram of BP’s relief well plan:
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/images/ReliefWellDiagram.jpg
The relief wells can’t be finished until August. By that time, I imagine, one good hurricane surge will have the entire mess up the Mississippi and it will have hit the loop currents up the Atlantic coast. That doesn’t count Mexico or Cuba or any one else in the way.
Yes, as I said, it will take months, but it’s the only way to staunch the gusher, ultimately. While the drilling of the relief wells continues apace, BP plans to proceed with the mitigating top kill procedure. This is not being advertised as the cure, but only another measure while the relief wells are drilled. And by relief, this is not about opening new holes to relieve pressure. They are intended for blocking the gusher with special materials. From Wiki:
The goal is not to form new leaks underwater but to stop the blowout.
Spocko; part of the feeling of helplessness is because Digby has been covering Obama’s ass on this, and really, just about everything else, for a long time.
Getting her to put up threads that included information about what was happening in the Gulf, and which also included the word “Obama”, has been like pulling teeth.
In fact, recently, the threads she’s posted pissing and moaning about Rand Paul’s practically insignifigant win in red state Kentucky outnumber her posts on the disaster in the GOM, and the part that Obama is playing, or not playing, in it.
In other news, here’s the latest from Louisiana, where the Fish and Wildlife people look like they’re about to just write off some rookeries for the Brown Pelicans that were removed from the Endangered Species list, a few months ago.
http://news.yahoo.com/;_ylt=AgvFYQ.fooqUhEBYpXmSGUMJWMcF
All bets are off now with the seafloor collapsing. Top Kill and the Junk Shot won’t work now because the hole is way too big and I doubt the relief well strategy will work either for the same reason.
BP waited too long.
My question is did BP precipitate this by trying the Top Kill, because this is a probable outcome, God Damn It.
I/m afraid the Gulf of Mexico is doomed.
A bit early to go off the deep end.
Everything Obama does is based on more profits for Goldman Sachs.
So long as Goldman has a giant stake in BP and is part owner of Corexit, Obama’s clearly willing to destroy the ocean and quite possibly a big part of this country. Frankly, Obama’s behavior is rather deranged.
All we’re gonna hear is more blather. I don’t expect Obama to get serious and access any form of expert assistance he can easily tap into, no matter what catastrophe transpires. He’s going to let BP/Goldman play this out as far as it goes.
And, just a little reminder, that we may have our first tropical system on the way. There’s a low about 500 nautical miles SSW of the Bahamas, which is showing some rotation, with a 30% chance of some further development over the next couple of days. The good news is that it’s probably going to track NW or NNW, which would keep it well out of the GOM:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic2/real-time/storm.php?&basin=atlantic&sname=90L&zoom=4&img=1&vars=11111000000000000000000&loop=0
The bad news is that early in the season there are usually two or three systems that develop into tropical depressions, or named storms, or small hurricanes, right IN the GOM. If that happens, even a minor storm surge along La., Miss., Alabama, and Florida, is going to make this exponentially worse, and of course, will bring a halt to any efforts to stop the gusher.
Where is BP headquarters? Time for a Million American Vigil there.
Think about it. The well consisted of the casing with the drill pipe inside it. The sand and rocks that turned the gusher into a giant sandblaster that blew out holes in the riser pipe at the kinks was coming from the walls of the well that the cement between the casing and the wall was supposed to protect. Therefore, the hole has been getting bigger and bigger and now it’s like a volcano vent with the piping inside it probably a twisted mess.
The relief wells can’t possibly stop this because anything they add will just be blown out of the volcano.
Greedy BP waited too long and Obama the Putz let them do it.
“Frankly, Obama’s behavior is rather deranged.”
I would say so, Clem. It’s looking as if he’s not even capable of enlightened self-interest.
The heat energy to raise a significant tropical storm or better would be available in August, by which time the relief wells would be drilled. The rigs have withstood cat 3 storms, apparently.
Right, good one.
Oh shit what then? I guess the whole freaking ocean will be a sea of oil. Will that bring down the price of gas at the pump?
you presume the government has the answer, Otto?
Speaking of volcanoes, the Pacific Ring of Fire is one busy underwater place. Check it out.
Alank, sorry. You’re mistaken. The gulf can support smaller storms earlier. It happens fairly often. And the Class 3 “cut” is for platforms that are solid and undamaged. And from what I read, THEY usually get evacuated.
And of course the storm surge from even a small system can raise the water level on the coast by a foot or two, and in that flat environment, That translates to a much deeper push for the oil.
If you say so. I doubt storms would impede the relief well drilling, significantly.
Somehow magma spewing along the ring of fire seems much more benign than oil and gas spewing into the Gulf of Mexico. It may be more spectacular it some ways, but the comparison seems specious. There is millenia of ecosystem evolved in the Gulf that will not tolerate this upset. A volcano in Chile (or Iceland for that matter) is relatively a *much* more normal and less destructive event.
I found this item about rigs in the Gulf from 2005: http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0726/p03s01-usgn.html
@84 I wasn’t drawing comparisons between the volcanoes in the Pacific Rim and the gusher in the Gulf of Mexico. I was drawing your attention to the dynamics of the sea floor and layers under it. Changes on the seafloor are a common occurrence in the former. The well in the Gulf was drilled through layers of rock nearly 2 miles deep below the ocean floor 50 miles off the Gulf coast. Pretty different, really.
I think it’s a three mile hole.
Teddy Partridge is upstairs!
Sunday Late Night: OmbudsAndy Wonders What Women Want in a WaPo
That’s a huge catch, I bookmarked Monkeyfister for that.
Incredible, seabed sunk suddenly, and as part of that, new eruptions apart from BOP and riser pipe began?
Is that what Monkey is saying happened? That’s a big ass oh oh, ain’t it.
Not to mention, as was called by Monkey, The Top Fill Junk Shot is now postponed alla sudden.
Not good . . . thanks again for the heads up on this NJ . . .
Commission outcomes divinely pre-determined doncha know . . . .
Here’s a link to the early-season named storms.
http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/earlyseason.asp
There have been about 25 named Hurricanes or tropical storms in the early-season, inclusive of May, including one in January. About half of them originated in the GOM or the Caribbean, which is another good early-season incubator.
Prior to 1950, hurricanes and tropical storms weren’t named, but were numbered. The “tropical storm” category for storms was somewhat vague in the 1950′s, and even later, until the Saffir-Simpson scale began to be used. The point is, that there have been lots more systems that didn’t make the grade for “tropical storm”, which have caused relatively small storm surges with little or no property damage, but which, given the current disaster in the Gulf, would greatly increase the harm there from the huge amounts of oil which are been released into the environment.
Here’s the track for an unnamed 115 mile-an-hour hurricane that made landfall on the Florida coast on June 23, 1945… which track is pretty much a worst-case scenario, if it’s repeated now.
http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/at194501.asp
You can scroll through the earlier storms, on the “all storms” list, and you’ll see how many of them kicked up in either the GOM or the Carribean.
Any efforts outside of maintaining status quo for the corps is kabuki.
We’re not gonna get FDR from this limp of coal in our WH Stocking.
We’re not gonna get HUGE stimulus investments in WPA like alt energy or even infrastructure maintenance or infrastructure development.
Not without great outrage and appearances by millions and millions of americans that rise as one.
And like one of my fav bluegrass songs croons in the chorus: “I don’t think I see that happening soon.”
The spillcam can be exciting…it seems. So the white stuff is gas and the black stuff is oil?
You should follow the press down here. We’re feeling like we’re being sent to a permanent mad max world down here instead of a temporary one. It’s been hard to get the attention of any one up until the one month anniversary. Let one tea party idiot wave a placard and it’s all over cable news. 65 mile of our shore line (the size of maryland’s and delaware’s shores combined) is now full of sludgy oil. If it gets in the Mississippi at all, it’s going to start getting at folk’s drinking water. All the fishing community is going bankrupt. Some of them are just sitting around waiting for orders with boom in their boats while more oil is coming up the Bataria Bay. I see this on the news for at least 20 minutes per session. I don’t think you’re seeing what we’re seeing.
You can bet your sweet bippy SOMEone had shorts on an oil well disaster in The Gulf, if not GS. Hedging the bets doncha know.
the deal is that the storms will create surge and send the oil farther onto the shores and up the Mississippi and into Lake Ponchartrain. That’s just form Louisiana’s perspective.
CA sure as hell made some GREAT choices under Pat Brown.
N then Ronnie Raygun began to destroy it all before his National Coronation.
What followed after Ronnie was putrid, here in CA.
Yep, as as of my last two hours, I’ve not seen ANYthing about his episode . . .
Monkeyfister suggests there’s been a tape loop inserted, so we may not be seeing live cam coverage right now.
I gotta go back and check the stream . . . . but some thing happened, and BP cancelled the Junk Shot Ops!
So is hiding behind a law that says we can’t go there. Adm Allen is such a tool.
When have we ever refrained from barnstorming any place on earth because of some stinking law? Never.
Under the circumstances of a runaway catastrophe in US waters it’s total BULLSHIT.
I would bet the farm that Norman Bates Obama is the one calling all the shots and making all the decisions.
I wondered about a tape loop. Then I wondered if maybe the robot cam has to move around because the currents shift – like when you’re barbecuing and it’s a fickle breeze.
I think BP America is headed up in Houston.
You are now discussing some seriously new science that’s been discussed by FDL Pups in just the last 24 hours or so. About rock strata, methane hydrates, methane, and potential for a huge disaster far beyond what we already have. As in, the entire Tiber Field begins to fracture and erupt of itself due to methane hydrate warming and release.
Nice comment there . . . . I gotta go find some links I saved regarding the rock strata, methane behaviors, etc.
I like the idea of eminent domain, but our elected and appointed offals are on the corporate side.
Threre’s no one of strength to advocate or fight for implementation of ED. Or any other means to control this disaster.
And that’s the rub . . . . .
As is with many large non-profits, they are really only veal pen operations.
Mz. Hamsher exposed Susan Comen Race For The Cure as one, during the HC Disaster.
Nice catch Frank, a buddy had pointed that HuffPo piece to me a bit earlier today.
I just continue to shake my head, at each and every revealed issued, outcome, development.
It’s overwhelming as the corruption is now out of the bag and does indeed permeate us all from top to bottom of our country, society, and our lives. USSR here we come.
Ring that bell brother, ring that bell, cuz yer a winner.
Clem @ 62. That too. How these assholes can KEEP going to congress and using the righteous anger about their environmental atrocities, to get legislation passed that PROTECTS them, makes you want to bite the heads off some chickens. Or, at the very least, elect a new preznint and a bunch of new congers. They can’t be much worse, and if we can turn these corporate toadies out of office, we just might get someone’s attention when we start making voter-threats, the next time around. Simply because the gummints says, fairly: “We’re not going to cover your ass for the cleanup.” (which remains to be seen…) doesn’t mean that they can’t simply declare a national emergency, shut down BP, and bring in some independent braintrust and gear, to deal with this. Also, I do NOT buy the idea that NASA, etc., can put people on the moon, and the Navy can put people on the bottom of much deeper oceans, and we can’t come up with a way to shut down this giant, pustulent, zit.
Dakinikat @ 71: Good post. It’s good to hear from someone at ground zero. Don’t be a stranger.
Larue: “We’re not going to get FDR from this lump of coal in our White House stocking.”
You got any booms to protect me from a caffeine spill? :o)
Know I’m preachin to the choir, but this has been proven over and over again and again in not only our own country’s lifetime, but thruout history.
Sadly, our country’s choices following WW2 (even during the war, certainly to drop nukes) have shown an escalating tendency of grave proportions to ensure we end up like Rome AND/OR The USSR. And many other empires who let the elites runaway with the game. That shit’s always unsustainable.
Nope, he’s rock solid, start to finish.
Love his work, and the work of yours, and so many others in this forum.
The Beltway is a cesspool of depravity. Anything that comes into contact with it, eventually turns to shit.
Ya know, when you cut to the chase like that, you ruin all the potential for continued gibberish.
Always good to see your pithy . . . ;-)
Right now, as of today, a minor worrisome.
However, with the release of volumes of oil and gas and reduced pressure holding it all together and contained in a fragile rock strata . . . we may have problems coming of cosmic proportions, agreed.
Tension has just recheted up a thousand fold on this disaster.
And the scientists and geologists and such are now getting their voices into the game.
With really fucking grievous consequences being revealed about it all.
Really, really grievous. Nice comment from you, thanks.
Mary Mc had that in a diary yesterday or the day before.
We’ve seen it. Where you been.
Way to brang the talk and the walk hoss . . . thanks.
And double me up on Digby and a few other so called proggy people and places.
You can almost TASTE the sausage and veal milanese they dish up.
I like mine with a basil laden buerre blanc and infused with non-pariel capers, thank you.
It’s a bit early, but I fear with what you know, and the recent info Pups have shared about rock strata’s and such (as discussing explosive collapse possibilities) that the WORST that could happen has occurred, and we are just waiting out the end result as science and mama nature play out their parts.
I mean, ya release 60-100 million of gallons of oil/gas and that pressure they had to keep that fragile rock strata in place . . . . and shit collapses . . . and ya get bigger holes and bigger releases . . . .
What’s it doing to the rest of the geologic makeup of that region down there? What will it all do as its course is run?
Methane into atmosphere, gas and oil into Gulf, displaced volumes of gigantic proportions, falling rock strata, and indeed, tectonic impact, tidal actions/tsunami potential . . . on and on and on.
The evidence is being collected and unveiled at a rapid rate.
Pay attention. It’s NEVER too early to be concerned with worst case.
Course, that SHOULD be coupled with pre planning, but we’re fucking FAR beyond that stage.
This is pure crisis reaction shit at this point, we can’t get ahead of it anymore.
Freight train, down hill, no brakes left and engineer jumped the cab miles back on the flats.
I’ve been watching the sat radars . . . thought it was too early to worry . . . but I think you caught the perfect edge of worry on this one . . . time to get REAL concerned and eyball them sat images for the parallel it all lies within.
Agreed. I’ve been saying for twenty years, if we can put a man on the moon don’t tell me we can’t build a gasless car.
So yes, I don’t believe our military and energy experts can’t resolve this thing.
Oh, I just remembered. The Pentagon has been building an underwater artillery range off the coast of Florida. This is the level of insanity from our elected officials. But let’s cut entitlements.
I digress. If they’re building this thing, which is around the bend they HAVE to have some type of deep water robots, no? Bet they have but Obama wants to protect BP at any cost to the nation. Sure seems like it.
Considering this gusher, so much for another one of Cheney’s wet dreams of war twenty thousand leagues under the sea.
Yeah, I saw, e.g., the flyover video posted here in the past day of a sea ravaged boom, making that option completely hopeless.
BINGO!!!
THIS is of grave concern.
Bottom line, too much PSI and BP either went in on the cheap or they got blindsided by a big ass methane hydrate warming and release which started this all.
And now, all that PSI greater than we should be fucking with (despite other wells deeper in water (don’t know their drill depths) to haunt us.
At this point, everything will be reactive rather than proactive. The horses have left the barn. The consequences of the spill doesn’t change the fact that the only sure way to stop the gusher are the relief wells. That’s the state of the art, at this point. The recognition that no forethought attended any decision to undertake offshore drilling changes the situation we find ourselves in.
Torn between his masters of corporations and his idols love that got him erected.
“Torn between two lovers . .” (god I hated that song)
Larue; roger the sat images. And, let’s keep an eye out for a reduction in the pulling and printing of them, by the MSM.
Knowledge is power, as they say.
You haven’t a clue, do ya.
Hoss, yer not listening to people with evidence, facts, details and more.
And you continue inject meaningless platitudes that provoke.
Why?
Woops. I wasn’t talking about storm trackin’. More about keeping access to the satellite overview of the surface slick.
Basically, as I understand it from my layman’s perspective.
White stuff could contain any number of elements including trapped oxygen, etc.
If they really were drilling 30K ft (WAY past the 11K ft permit issues) below ocean floor, who KNOWS what’s down that far . . . lots of history, though.
Great reply, thanks for your comment.
Many of us FDL regulars see what you see . . .
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, hope you continue to do so.
I for one appreciate it.
Yeah, I’ve seen current eddy’s and shifts . . . I’m just taking Monkeyfister at face value, and the screen shots, and the monitoring of what a lot of folks saw.
And suddenly the cam went down, and came back up with clear water and less turbidity?
And I don’t think that’s something to question because I suspect the WORST from BP, and our elected offals?
Heh, = tape loop to me. Till proven false.
And the Junk Shot’s cancelled? Pork Qua?
Once in a blue moon, I got something quippy.
It was that sexy WH Stocking in my mind driving the thought. Sexy as in bed, with corps. Nasty Bidness.
I’m talking WAY beyond dress stains here. ;-)
Yep, and the fuckers ruin the BEST veal in all the worst ways (I’m an ex-chef).
I, uh, I, uh, I agree with ya!
;-)
Hoss I think you got a good point and we SHOULD be tracking the sat imaging for storms!
ONE lousy storm could send this shit into the shores like . . . well, use yer own imagery.
I’m really concerned with what MonkeyFister describes today . . . . if the main well head (with the BOP on it) and the main drill hole casing (as described above by an EXCELLENT comment I forget who) were eroded from the velocity of escaping oil, Drill Mud, gas, and sediment then the gusher just got exponentially more serious.
And if the sea bed collapsed, just a little . . . that’s some bad effin juju, hoss.
As always, thanks for your thoughts keep branging them!
Everything will be fine. We’ll get some more petitions signed, air a few ads, and maybe get a pledge or two. Heck we might even get an indiscernibly less corporatist politician to replace the ones that are already there from time to time.
“The government should seize the rig, revoke the lease, inform BP/transocean/halliburton that they will be footing the entire bill, and immediately employ whatever tactics are necessary to cap the well. Fuck them, they do not need to be:”
I like the above. It could be done, if only the administration had the guts to do it. But unless Obama gets some steel in his spine what we’ll get instead of BP assets is another fucking commission and left holding the bag. I’m about ready for a revolution.
On lobbyists –
“If you can’t eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and still vote against them, you have no business being up here.”
- Jesse Unruh
Did he really say that?
Because I have been thinking this is espionage, done on purpose to bring us to our knees, and I think it is the kind of thing that he would do. If you are joking, that is irresponsible, a certain percentage of people (like me) are going to believe you and repeat it as news.
Americans keep thinking they are popular around the world, but realists know that is not true.
I have been arguing with someone (presumably in England) for years in AlterNet who really believes there are way too many people in the world. I think it is creepy to argue that it is somehow desirable to kill off masses and masses of people, but apparently this person really believes it because they keep making the arguments as to why it is necessary. Have been for years.
Sometimes I worry that they are perhaps justifying their actions. It is thoughts like that that ruin your sleep, especially if you start thinking they have the power to make accidents happen. We all know Cheneys do.
So what if like 9/11, Cheney did it?
Just think of Enron then as a preclude to this disaster. Bush was out to ‘get’ California, he gave away our water.
I looked into why we have a drug war about seven years ago and discovered a great well of corruption tied to it in our government, police, schools and banking systems. In fact, most all of our regulatory systems. The deeper I dug, the more corruption I found.
Being who I am, and a trained girl scout leader, I put together a plan to DO something about it. I decided, since the issue was so completely corrupt, I could only be successful if I did it all as a volunteer project. I know that is not very encouraging, but if you consider I inspired the TEA Party movement on that idea, you might feel a little more cheered up.
We are going to have to win this political fight the old fashioned way, without any money. Believe me, once people catch on to the idea, they love it. If money is the mother’s milk of politics, then in the cosmic game of rock, paper, scissors, what beats big money is volunteers.
SALAZAR PURGES HIMSELF BEFORE CONGRESS:
“While Interior Department officials have said certain new drilling procedures on existing wells can proceed, Mr. Salazar, when pressed to explain why new drilling was being allowed, testified on May 18 that ‘there is no deep-water well in the O.C.S. that has been spudded — that means started — after April 20,’ referring to the gulf’s outer continental shelf.
However, Newfield Exploration Company has confirmed that it began drilling a deep-water well in 2,095 feet of water after April 20. Records indicate that Newfield was issued a permit on May 11 to initiate a sidetrack drill, with a required spud date of May 10. A sidetrack is a secondary wellbore drilled away from the original hole.”
From: MSNBC website Monday, May 24
Maybe you would be seeing it if you could convince the TEA Partiers that is what they want. I think they are kind of short on leadership and good ideas. Nature abhors a vacuum, perhaps you could fill their empty spaces with good ideas.
“America does not have an alternative future from the Gulf horror, based on an alternative energy base, and there are no serious efforts to create one.”
The first part of your assumption is incorrect. There are inventors out there who’ve come up with the kernel of great ideas that involve quantum physics energies and other leading-edge energy systems. Many work on a small scale. They would be able to power everything, including homes, buildings, cars, other transporation. (Heck, there are even something as simple as magnetic-based high speed rails already up and running in some countries. Where are ours?)
As for petroleum-based products: Again, they’re already out there, including bags, containers, packing, etc. They’re already out there. So why aren’t we using them? Why aren’t they prominent in the marketplace?
That’s the real question, isn’t it? Which means the second part of your statement is correct. There are no serious efforts to jump-start what’s already available. None. (In fact, inventors of new energy patents…get their patents either put on hold, or confiscated by the Dept. of Defense. No joke. Look it up.)
Which means it’s really about keeping these new technologies away from the public. The government, in collusion with the big industry boys, are carrying out a “black out” of information and access.
That simple.
from Jean-Michael Cousteau at oceansfuture.org….
“Finally, we need to accept the fact that some areas of our planet are too valuable and too risky for us to meddle in. I have spent much of my life on and in the sea. I know it well enough to know that I don’t know it at all. It is unpredictable and powerful. Working in the ocean is dangerous business. At great depths, like a mile below the surface, it is beyond challenging. The pressure is otherworldly. The temperature approaches freezing, cold enough to make methane gas combine with water in the consistency of a smoothie. There is zero sunlight. This is close to an impossible environment in which to work. We knew this from the beginning. Agencies responsible for permits, to oversee technological security and back up systems, and BP itself, knew these challenges; sadly, the ultimate test of any proposed fail-safe system is sometimes the reality of a disaster. I believe drilling for oil in these regions is inappropriate across the globe, period.
Why would we treat the alien and hostile environment of the deep ocean with any less caution that we treat space, where we go only with multiple back-up systems?
We need to implement the precautionary principle, which requires the user to prove that any action taken will not cause harm. If we are not convinced, then the project should be stopped, whatever the profit. The Hippocratic oath, “First, do no harm,” must be applied a priori to our natural environment. When it comes to any action with a consequence to the environment, we must assume any industry is guilty until it proves itself innocent.
The Gulf of Mexico oil spill will be a tragedy of massive proportions to the natural world no matter what. Our only redemption is to make it the catalyst for a philosophical change that will protect us all in the future. For starters, in the meantime, we need an across the board inventory, from businesses and industry, to do what we can to reduce our need for oil.”
Sometimes George Carlin puts things in perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw
“The planet if fine. The people are fucked”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbpu1xKAow
Although there is absolutely NO EXCUSE$ for BP’s criminal negligence. NO EXCUSE for our governments negligence in regard to oversight
And of course we can stop future oil disasters. If the political will is there. Along with the American people demanding more serious and enforced standards
The oil found in the US is not for domestic consumption alone so the sell job about drilling here reducing our dependence on foreign oil is totally bogus. Anyone can buy our oil.
It’s another elitist scam meant to fatten their own bank accounts.
Yes, they waited way too long indeed. The hole is growing, as not only oil is in the mix but sand and rock and it grows by the minute. I find it almost unbelievable that no one on the entire planet has a clue how to stop this. It shows you though how these types of wells should have never been allowed in the 1st place. The other half of drilling is being able to contain such events in reality not in some computer model. This is what real regulations and real regulators should have been doing and demanding. Here then is the pure distilled essence of 30 yrs. of regulation by the regulated or as it’s known in here, CORPORATISM.
What happened to federal court? The government should have marched in on day one and said to the judge: “We have no idea how bad or extensive the harms are here, or how extensive the damage will ultimately be. Moreover, it could be weeks, even months, until the leaks are plugged. Therefore, we want BP to put money in an escrow account every day this goes on. Moreover, Your Honor, if this does continue please use your discretion on how much the daily deposit will be. Let’s start at $500 million a day and work from there. We have been told that this deposit is second in size only to the legendary 80 billion barrel Ghawar Field of Saudi Arabia, and that its lifetime production could reach perhaps 70 billion barrels of oil and 100 trillion cubic feet of gas, the market value of the production at current prices is about $5 trillion for the oil and $1 trillion for the gas, minus costs to BP of course. While it is nice now to finally understand the reason for the oil industry’s “Drill, Baby, Drill!” hard-on, we accept that it is their mess and they need to have some motivation to do something about it. After all, our corrupt public officials have already sold the rights to this oil for practically nothing, so we think this escrow account would at least assure some of the costs of the Biggest Fucking Mess In All of American History can be covered.”
This is off-topic:
Below the Radar: HUD Is Trying to Privatize and Mortgage Off All of America’s Public Housing
Excellent!
I think I meant, “doesn’t change the situation.” It was a complicated sentence.