50 Responses to Breaking: Quantico Military Holding Jane Hamsher, Impounding Car for Trying to Deliver Manning Petition

1. dakine01 January 23rd, 2011 at 11:25 am 1

   Welcome to East Germany.

   This is not why I served 5 years 9 months in the USAF.

   Nor is this the actions of the country I served.

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2. ThingsComeUndone January 23rd, 2011 at 11:31 am 2

   WTF she visited before what happened?

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3. TomThumb January 23rd, 2011 at 11:33 am 3

   I sent a note to newstips site at the NYTimes. God. I hope she is alright.

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4. Twain January 23rd, 2011 at 11:33 am 4

   We are no longer free. Our rights are eroded daily and if we don’t do something quickly they will all be gone. Am looking forward to Jane’s posts after this incident – probably blow out the fuses on lots of computers. I hope she is okay and will soon be on her way home. This is disgraceful.

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5. TomThumb January 23rd, 2011 at 11:34 am 5

   In response to TomThumb @ 3

   Maybe if a whole bunch of people write in, it will get some attention.

   news-tips@nytimes.com

   Reply
6. jimbo January 23rd, 2011 at 11:37 am 6

   This is the same military that uses religion to further its aims. That is, these people are nuts, and our laws mean nothing to them. Obama, first fire the religious creeps who head military operations. Then find out who and why they are taking actions against Jane and others who are exercising their rights. Please do this before there is further serious harm to nation.

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7. ThingsComeUndone January 23rd, 2011 at 11:37 am 7

   The apparent reason is to prevent her from delivering a petition to military authorities asking them to improve the conditions under which Bradley Manning is being held.

   Like they would bother reading the petition. Chances are Bradley was beaten up by the guards and they don’t want Jane to see the bruises. They are probably telling Brad to say he fell down.

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8. ThingsComeUndone January 23rd, 2011 at 11:42 am 8

   KO gets forced off the air and now Jane is arrested coincidence? This is Bush level arrogance this is an attempt to scare us. A lame attempt.

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9. ThingsComeUndone January 23rd, 2011 at 11:48 am 9

   Quantico Marine brass don’t want Manning 2 have visitor now. Enforcement of solitary confinement complete.

   He was in solitary before so its unlikely he violated any prison rule to get visitor rights revoked. So just how will the guards explain this?

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10. Maddy January 23rd, 2011 at 11:51 am 10

    The quickening. Best to you Jane. Fear not..they like that. Little tiny men..with bad information=what we got. Reptilian mindsets incapable of thought.

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11. Twain January 23rd, 2011 at 12:01 pm 11

    Looking forward to Jane’s next tv appearance.

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12. TomThumb January 23rd, 2011 at 12:13 pm 12

    Okay. Things are starting to wing back:

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/activists-manning-held-quantico/

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13. BooRadley January 23rd, 2011 at 12:14 pm 13

    Glad Jane’s ok.

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14. Phoenix Woman January 23rd, 2011 at 12:25 pm 14

    In response to Twain @ 11

    Me, too.

    What part of “the whole world is watching” do they not understand?

    Reply
15. Phoenix Woman January 23rd, 2011 at 12:27 pm 15

    In response to TomThumb @ 12

    Tweet and blog the shit out of this, people. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

    They figured they could cow Jane like they cow the members of the GOP/Media complex. They figured wrong.

    Reply
16. mzchief January 23rd, 2011 at 1:07 pm 16

    Thank you, Scarecrow.

    OT– “Ireland Government Crumbles As Green Party Pulls Out Of Ruling Coalition” (by Tyler Durden on 01/23/2011 11:01 -0500) with press conference in embedded video.

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17. ekunin January 23rd, 2011 at 1:14 pm 17

    Bad, Bad, but foreseeable. Time to see where we stand. A habeus corpus mu st be filed to attempt to change the conditions of Manning’s imprisonment. Problem. Will the judge grant relief if he believes the military will ignore him? There was a 5-4 SCOTUS decision a bit more than a year ago granting legal rights to a Gitmo inmate. Everyone rejoiced. The system works. I think the guy is still in Gitmo though I don’t know. Sometimes Supreme Courts overstep themselves. About 25 years ago the Conn. Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional to use local property taxes to fund public schools. The decision was ignored. Connecticut public schools are still, for the most part, funded by local property taxes. When a supreme court does something no one agrees with, it runs the risk of being ignored.

    With our separation of powers, when an administration ignores a valid court order, the court should certify the default to Congress who should then impeach. Trouble is a majority in the house may think Manning is getting what he deserves. We may as well get that bad news sooner rather than later.

    We also need to create a permanent page to discuss what we might to to change things. If we put our heads together we may be surprised. I suggested this to Jane some time ago. Perhaps the overwhelming arrogance, injustice, and the 300.00 fine may change her mind.

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18. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 1:41 pm 18

    my thoughts on Manning,

    No matter what anyone’s opinion is on the matter, it is most definitely illegal for an individual with a Clearance to release classified info to anyone who is not cleared. Period. If he is indeed guilty he will and should go to jail for an extended period of time.

    The argument about what should be classified and what should be released to the public is an argument that we should have, by petitioning the public officials who oversee these types of things, breaking the law, especially when it comes to Natl secrecy is no way to bring change, in fact, it will only make things worse for everyone.

    About Manning’s confinement, the Uniformed Code of Military Justice is a hell of a thing, I suggest you read it sometime, it gives commanders enormous amounts of leeway and discretion in all matters military, for good or ill, I can almost gaurantee that everything Manning is being subjected to is totally justifiable and 100% legal per the UCMJ, and there is no amount of petitioning to the commander on the ground that can change that.

    I think advicay can be provided and change can be obtained, I would suggest writing to and petitioning the various members of the Intelligence Oversight Comittees and other govt bodies that shape the laws and regulations these folks operate under, until you do that, you may as well be urinating up a rope.

    This is, in my opinon, and inherent flaw with the left, most people could give two flying fornications about a guy who leaked military secrets, I happen to be one of them even though I am a progressive. We have to stop wasting our time taking up no win issues and focus on what we can change.
    just my two cents, I am ready for your slings and arrows

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19. Magginkat January 23rd, 2011 at 1:46 pm 19

    The military industrial complex at work. Truly disgusting.

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20. Magginkat January 23rd, 2011 at 1:49 pm 20

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 18

    I guess you don’t give two lying fornications about a quack president who lied us into two wars & murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people as well as over 4,000 of our own military personnel either. Take my word for it….you do not speak for most people.

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21. lsls January 23rd, 2011 at 2:11 pm 21

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 18

    Don’t you get it???? The issue is that he is being treated inhumanely (which is illegal) in a country where you are, by law, innocent until proven guilty.

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22. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 2:15 pm 22

    In response to Magginkat @ 20

    No way, I understand the frustration because I share it. I just have a different opinion of how to address it. I didn’t mean to claim to speak for most people, I gave my opinion about how I think most people view this particular subject, and if you TRULY believe that most people consider someone who leaked state secrets as anyone deserving of sympathy and support, you have GROSSLY underestimated the extent to which the average citizen is conditioned to admire and stand in awe of our military and all that it represents.

    You skipped over the part in which I said that I agreed that the debate about what should be considered a state secret, and what should be releasable to the public is a debate that I believe we SHOULD have, I just don’t think this is the way to go about it. If anything, the left will be portrayed as championing a traitor by the right wing pundits, not to mention the military industrial complex, and that complex WILL go to work, they will use this an excuse to close ranks and double down. The cause is worthy, I just don’t think we can get there from here.

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23. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 2:22 pm 23

    In response to lsls @ 21

    I cannot stres this enough, please read the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, it is the document by which the military lives and breathes as relates to the day to day workings of our military. It is this document, that dictates what is and what is not illegal as it relates to members of the military. The Geneva convention has no bearing on how the U.S. military treats its own personnel, nor does anyother document either nationally or internationally recognized. When anyone steps foot onto a military base they are subject to some forms of UCMJ, when anyone joins the military, they are fully subject to UCMJ. This is just common knowledge to anyone in, or around the military, and you can call it the military industrial complex if you want to, but these are the rules that our soldiers must legally abide by, they all know that, even if the public at large does not. If you want Manning’s condition’s improved, go higher, Chief of Staff, Intelligence Oversight Comittee, hell, President Obama himself if need be, maybe this is already being done, in any case it will be the only effective means of resolving this issue.

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24. wendydavis January 23rd, 2011 at 2:29 pm 24

    I wonder what their reasoning for towing her car might be. No, I don’t suppose they really need one, but still…

    Can’t wait to hear more from Jane; tweets just don’t capture much of the situation, IMO.

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25. Rusty1776 January 23rd, 2011 at 2:37 pm 25

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 23

    The only way to resolve this issue is to directly confront the psychopaths at Quantico who are torturing an American soldier.

    That has been done and it will continue to be done.

    I cannot stress this enough–take your Uniform Code of Military Justice and ~~~Edited by Moderator~~~, “SenatorGovernment.” Keep ~~~Edited by Moderator~~~ I tell you to stop.

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26. TomThumb January 23rd, 2011 at 2:49 pm 26

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 23

    I remember you. You are the epitome of convention who thought that the Apache pilots in the CollateralMurder.org video were just following the rules of engagement. Your authority worshipping moniker gives you away. You have lost your humanity, the part of you that knew that it is against human rights to shoot down civilians in cold blood and to kill men trying to help incapacitated victims of your shooting. You are the one who aimed the missile into the apartment building because you saw a man walking with a gun go inside. Yes. It’s you. I remember you.

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27. pineywoodsfats January 23rd, 2011 at 2:56 pm 27

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 18

    1. He’s not been convicted of anything.

    2. Whether convicted, or awaiting trial, such treatment of a prisoner is inhumane. THAT is the issue at hand.

    I suspect you are using the “gravity of his crimes” argument as a sideshow to not discuss that issue.

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28. TomThumb January 23rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm 28

    In response to Phoenix Woman @ 15

    I sent the FDL posts on this to the Canadian Press site and to the international news desk of the Guardian. The Guardian had a sympathetic story for those victims of solitary confinement so I am praying hard that they will pick up Jane and Michael’s story at Quantico too.

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29. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 3:12 pm 29

    In response to Rusty1776 @ 25

    there is no ‘confronting the psychopaths at Quantico who are torturing an American soldier’ it has NOT been done, and it CANNOT be done by any means other than petitioning the officials who are in charge of the commander of the instillation he is currently being held at. It may also not be the best course of action, here is just 1 example of how it can backfire.
    1. It may be true that the documents Manning released caused no harm, this time, that point is debatable,
    2. BUT there is no debate, that there are classified materials that if released, can cause harm to the Country and to individuals,
    3. Commanders must ensure that no one else finds it feasible to leak classified info, they can and will use every legal means available to make a bright and shining example of Manning to discourage others, your ignorance of military law and regulations WILL not and CANNOT change this

    if, a campaign to give Manning better confinement conditions is successful, I would applaud

    BUT, the next time a military members releases info, and this time the info does cause harm to the Nation or individuals, The left will be portrayed as having supported a traitor and cowed the military as to how they legally treat their members. Now we will lose credibility and thus precious influence on a myriad of other issues, on balance, I doubt if 1. the {direct confrontation of the low level officials Quantico is an effective course of action} and 2. whether this particular battle is one worthy of engagement at this time,it may well resulst in a 1 step forward 5 steps back scenario. And forgive me if I have a hard time finding sympathy for someone who is accused of knowingly violating the law at a time when good law abiding people are out of work, forgive me if I don’t find this particular cause worthy of the political capital and credibility expenditure the left and anyone assosciated with it will part with willingly or not, in light of current circumstances. But it’s only my opinion, and I submitted for consideration, and constructive discussion, too bad. I assure you, if I disagree with your opinion I will find a way to express it that does not inolve asking you to insert something into any of your orifices, if you could do the same that would be really great.

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30. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 3:13 pm 30

    In response to TomThumb @ 26

    Not me. Seriously, not me.

    Reply
31. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 3:20 pm 31

    In response to pineywoodsfats @ 27

    If he was a civillian, I would be much more receptive to the idea of calling his treatment inhumane. Perhaps I’m just moved to play devil’s advocate, but it is IMPERATIVE, that you ACKNOWLEDGE that the military operates by different rules than the public at large, it is in this context that calling confinement for 24 hours a day inhumane seems laughable to anyone in the military or loosely affiliated with it. Petitioning a commander on the ground is also laughable, as anyone familiar with military knows that action starts from the top down. See my response to RUSTY1776 as to why I feel this could be a fight that the left in general may not want to have from a strategic standpoint. And again, these are only opinions, thanks for not resulting to insulsts!

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32. greglbean January 23rd, 2011 at 3:22 pm 32

    No one could be so stupid, and so one must suspect this is a ploy by Quantico to expose their masters by following stupid orders to the letter.

    Quantico must be sick of all this media attention, and they’re not stupid, but they are required to follow orders. They would not of their own accord treat Manning in this fashion. Seriously, why would they?

    So, orders from above are reflecting badly on them and they DO NOT agree with these orders. How do they get the orders altered?

    Follow them to the letter. The result is that this will escalate the visibility, (as it’s done) and cause those giving the orders to have to modify them, or risk exposure when the guys at Quantico simply say, “Just following orders”.

    In fact they have already said the orders come from on high but everyone assumed that meantt, on high but within Quantico, look deeper. How high does this really go?

    Very clever of those at Quantico!!

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33. dakine01 January 23rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm 33

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 31

    It’s not just the solitary confinement in a pre-trial detention.

    It’s the refusal to allow any exercising other than the hour or so he’s allowed out of the cell

    It’s the refusal to allow any reading materials

    It’s the refusal to allow any bedding.

    It is the punishment without conviction (and as a former military, I’m just as aware that the UCMJ is different from the Constitution but military people do not give away ALL rights upon enlisting)

    Manning is still innocent until proven guilty.

    Jane and David were going to be presenting the petition to the Quantico Commander. So much for petitioning the very top.

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34. companion January 23rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm 34

    Manning might reach “martyr” status before long. He made state secrets transparent. Obama said he would in his candidacy for POTUS. Manning beat him to the draw.

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35. companion January 23rd, 2011 at 3:37 pm 35

    Jane…you’re doing a great job.

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36. Rusty1776 January 23rd, 2011 at 3:37 pm 36

    You registered at FDL one day ago, “SenatorGovernment”. It’s very clear why you’re here. You don’t have an “opinion” on this, you don’t have any “thoughts”, you’re posting what you’ve been told to post, you are~~~Edited by Moderator.~~~

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37. Art Brennan January 23rd, 2011 at 3:40 pm 37

    I am a veteran and a retired judge. The Marines are bringing no honor onto themselves by treating Bradley Manning, a pretrial detainee, in this vindictive and small minded way. Instead of holding him under these physically and mentally debilitating conditions they should be ensuring that he is physically and mentally prepared to defend himself in a trial and prosecution which will harness all of the power of the US government to ensure a finding of guilty. There is nothing wrong with the adversarial nature of a criminal trial as long as both sides are being treated equally and fairly. It is dishonorable and shameful for the Marines to participate in what is obviously an attempt to undermine a defendant physically and mentally.

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38. Ohio Barbarian January 23rd, 2011 at 3:43 pm 38

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 23

    The UCMJ does not authorize torture, which, by all accounts, is what is happening to Private Manning at Quantico.

    Reply
39. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 3:45 pm 39

    In response to dakine01 @ 33

    If it were me, (and it’s not) I would go right to President Obama, whenever Jane is on tv pontificating about politics if I were her, I would bring this issue up and challenge the President directly, I doubt new channels would frown upon this…..it is contreversy and theater and therefore newsworthy and more importantly money making! I would ask all of you to write your congressmen/women and senators and the whitehouse regarding this issue, and I would call for a peaceful demonstration in D.C. maybe she is just building momentum to these ends or something similar, I would not doubt it. BUT, my point about whether the political capital and credibility the left must part with behind this issue is not better spent on other issues still stands. I find this a strategic misstep waiting to happen.

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40. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 3:53 pm 40

    In response to Ohio Barbarian @ 38

    Forgive me, but your casual tossing around of the word ‘torture’ reminds me an awful lot of folks on the right who hurl assertions of socialism and communism around without any meaningful understanding of what they are saying, or to put it another way, your reckless use of words reminds me of a fully grown man standing up in a town hall meeting and shouting at the top of his lungs that he doesn’t want the government involved with is Medicare. I agree that Manning’s conditions are shameful, I just don’t think we do him or anyone who is sure enough being tortured a service by lightly tossing this word around. Manning’s treatment is shameful and embarrising, I can understand why you would like him to be held under better conditions. On that much we are in agreement, I just can’t get behind the casual use of the word torture.

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41. SenatorGovernment January 23rd, 2011 at 4:04 pm 41

    In response to Rusty1776 @ 36

    Rusty1776, I am saddened and deeply disheartened to think that my posts have left such a bad taste in your mouth. I do not intend to try to shout anyone down or try to dsicredit anyone’s thoughts or opinions, merely to express mine and to see what others think. I look forward to your taking me to task at a later date, when you are in a better mood and can express your thoughts more fully.

    Reply
42. Rusty1776 January 23rd, 2011 at 4:43 pm 42

    In response to SenatorGovernment @ 41

    Yes, one of these days I’m going to try to express my thoughts more fully. I might even try to write an entire diary.

    Reply
43. leenskies January 23rd, 2011 at 4:51 pm 43

    My God! That this is happening on US soil to a US citizen…and still people run fearfully, quietly, desperately to one of their three below-minimum wage jobs. France I love you. Why don’t some some of you ballsy French men come over here and give America a big dose of prima nocta? We wimps need it. Land of the free, Home of the brave my ass!

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44. TheOracle January 23rd, 2011 at 5:08 pm 44

    Welcome to the United Surveillance States of the Republic of America…or USSRA…with the A silent, or silenced.

    I’m a Vietnam Era veteran, USAFSS. How times have changed. Capitalist Oligarchs rule Russia. Capitalist Oligarchs run the USSRA. And Capitalist Oligarchs have made major inroads into Communist China.

    Battle-tested (in Afghanistan and Iraq) surveillance drone aircraft are increasingly being deployed in the skies over USSRA cities and rural areas. Communications of USSRA citizens are routinely tapped into and monitored. Liberal voices are silenced, like Keith Olbermann’s (for now). Military detainees are kept in USSR-like gulag conditions, while shadow detainees are secretly renditioned to secret prisons overseas. Covert CIA agents get their cover blown, and the right-wing perpetrators (or is that perpetraitors?) get away with it. Government functions are outsourced to for-profit private contractors, with little or no oversight or accountability. Right-wing ranters on radio and television spread lies and call for the deaths (veiled threats or otherwise) of anyone not subservient to their corporate oligarch masters and the Fascist Republican political machine.

    So, welcome to the Police State, welcome to the United Surveillance States of the Republic of America, from sea to shining sea. The conservatives of today have succeeded where all previous threats to our country, our Constitution, have failed. (And when I refer to conservatives, I’m only referring to those that head the corporate oligarch class, the conservatives who over the past thirty years have bought up much of our “publicly-owned” airwaves, as well as a whole lot of USSRA politicians, both Republicans and Democrats, the conservatives who view multi-national corporate profits as more important than our nation’s founding principles, our Constitution, the well-being of American citizens, no matter what political affiliation. Those conservatives).

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45. mojada January 23rd, 2011 at 5:39 pm 45

    What SenatorGovernment conveniently (purposefully) omits as he attempts to justify the unjustifiable using the UCMJ is that it is Manning, not the military establishment, who is on the right side of the law.
    The Uniform Code of Military Justice 809.ART.90 (20) clearly states that military personnel must obey the “lawful command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “lawful order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “lawful general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “lawful order”. In each of these cases, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey LAWFUL orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey UNLAWFUL orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the US Constitution, not to those who have and do issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
    An order engage in unprovoked military aggression is a crime. In fact, it is the “supreme international crime,” as the Nuremberg Tribunal determined. The Department of Defense adopted the principles of the Nuremberg Code as the official policy of the United States in 1953.
    Bradley Manning is apparently one of the few members of the US military who takes this law and the US Constitution seriously, and it is clear that he is being tortured because of it.

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46. canadianbeaver January 23rd, 2011 at 6:24 pm 46

    You can’t beat the military. They have their own laws and they are nothing like a regular citizens laws. Jane is doing nothing legally wrong here, but in the military, their legal is nothing like everyone else’s. Never was, never will be. Once you step foot on military property, your normal rights are gone. Good luck Jane and I truly hope nothing seriously bad happens to you because there will be very little anyone can do to help.

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47. DownSouth January 24th, 2011 at 6:44 am 47

    Martin Luther King’s speech “Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam” provides a moral compass which might prove helpful in times like these.

    It can be found here in text form:
    http://www.husseini.org/2007/01/martin-luther-king-jr-why-i-am.html

    And here in audio form:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U

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48. steveagtr5 January 24th, 2011 at 7:47 am 48

    Tell Gunny Foster that this is the kind of chickenshit treatment that you’d expect from the ARMY.

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49. in_awe January 24th, 2011 at 10:38 am 49

    Things have really changed under Obama haven’t they? What happened to all the powerhouse progressives speaking truth to power under Bush? Not a peep as Obama peals away freedom after freedom. Are progressives really OK with with loss of liberty as long as it comes at the hands of someone they got elected?

    Oh, and just a point of historical fact – the socialist regimes were (are) equally as brutal and liberty denying as the fascist ones. Own it – apparently it is your preferred future.

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50. in_awe January 24th, 2011 at 10:59 am 50

    In response to mojada @ 45

    “The moral and legal obligation is to the US Constitution, not to those who have and do issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution”

    I love your passion! Would you let me know where you are taking on the Democrats in Congress, the president and his Executive Branch agencies?

    Nancy Pelosi: “you’re asking where in the Constitution the authority rests for the health care law? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?”

    Many Democrats in Congress: “Most of what we do in Congress is unconstitutional.”

    Barack Obama: “There is more than one way to skin a cat.” After he fails to gain Congressional approval to act on greenhouse gases – the EPA directly violates a federal court finding that the EPA lacks the right to proceed in the absence of Congressional directive.

    Anxious for you to join forces with the Tea Party to reassert the primacy of the Constitution, and the role of Congress.

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