There is no valid journalistic reason for CBS, NBC and CNN to continue their Sunday Talk shows. (There is still hope for Ms. Amanpour’s efforts to bring some intelligence to ABC.)
What should they have talked about today? Aside from Middle East revolutions, recent domestic news has been dominated, as Frank Rich notes, by Tea-GOPer assaults on any/all government functions that can address income inequality or rein in corporate misconduct. The latter have all been disguised as “necessary” spending cuts to reduce “unsustainable” debts nationally, or as reductions in public worker’s wages, benefits and rights at the state level.
So it would make sense for the shows’ hosts to have at least a basic grasp of the most important budget and fiscal facts, even if they insist on interviewing only Tea-GOP governors and anti-labor zealots with only a lone labor representative invited onto NBC after viewer protests.
Here are a few facts the hosts might have understood (or at least known what was being argued by prominent critics) before CBS’ Bob Schieffer interviewed NJ Gov. Christie or NBC allowed GOP governors Barbour, Haley and Walker to spin in unison their poll-tested talking points:
1. The current budget crises in many states were not caused by runaway wages and benefits for public workers. While there are examples of excesses created by public corruption, which no one defends, the large state budget deficits are almost entirely due to the Great Recession, which was brought on by federal regulators — Greenspan’s Fed, SEC, OCC etc — who recklessly ignored predatory lending, fraudulent securitizations, a housing bubble and its inevitable collapse — and by the financial industry’s reckless self-immolation. Shouldn’t the governors have been asked if they even understand this most basis cause? . . .
2. States are being strangled by the recesssion’s effects. They lost income and business taxes from high levels of unemployment, lost property taxes from the decline of property values and record foreclosures, and face much higher costs for safety net spending that always accompanies a major recession. Indeed, as Mike Konczal has noted, there is a strong correlation between the severity of the housing collapse in a state and severity of a state’s budget problems. It’s not whether they have unions. Shouldn’t this be discussed?
3. The only just fiscal and monetary solutions to a national economic recession lie in Washington. The federal government has the authority and means to fix it. But all of these governors and the Tea-GOPer led Congress have irresponsibly opposed all federal efforts at fixing the problem, and their proposed budget cuts will actually hurt the economy. Shouldn’t they be asked how they can defend that record?
4. Without essential federal assistance, states are forced either to raise taxes or to cut their budgets, neither of which should be occurring during a recession. But these governors and the Tea-GOP have ruled out overt tax increases, leaving only worse spending cuts or extracting money from state workers, since public employee wages and benefits can be a large portion of state budgets. If you limit the solutions to hammers, all victim become nails. Given the massive wealth inequality in the US, shouldn’t these governors be asked to justify this lopsided avoidance of “sharing the pain”?
5. Despite much irresponsible “reporting,” most state pension plans are not suffering from being too generous. Like state budgets generally, they are suffering from the effects of the Great Recession, including a massive loss in the value of assets after Wall Street bankers and irresponsible federal regulators crashed the financial system. Despite the admitted excesses in a few cases, blaming pensioners is unwarranted, and NYT Matt Bai allowing Gov. Christie to mock and defame state workers is unconscionable. Further, independent studies have confirmed that essential soundness of the Wisconsin retirement system, one of the best in the nation. And most hysteria about “unfunded liabilities” use the misleading multi-decade perspective that mathematically generates a huge number, when in fact, with normal economic growth over that period most state retirement/pension system are not in crisis. Shouldn’t these facts be part of these interviews?
6. On the whole, state workers are not overpaid. Nor does including their benefits result in an unfair advantage for public workers versus workers in the private sector. As a recent New York Times survey found, some work categories find public paid slightly more than private, other categories find private paid slight more than public, but when adjusted for the levels of education required, public workers tend on average to be paid slightly less than their private counterparts. Shouldn’t the hosts challenge the governors who repeatedly claim otherwise?
7. Public employees pay 100 percent of their own benefits. As [journalist] David Cay Johnston (echoed by Dean Baker and Paul Krugman) explains, the notion that public employees enjoy immunity from contributions to their health and retirement systems while private employees must contribute more, though maliciously spread by the GOP to pit voters against state workers, and then promoted by the New York Times, is categorically false. Through their employment agreements, workers receive total compensation via wages/salaries and benefits. Workers with collective bargaining agreements can negotiate to take varying proportions of their compensation as take-home wages or as retirement and/or health benefits. But no matter what mix they choose, the practical impact for public workers is not different than for private workers.
8. GOP Governors are imposing selective income tax increases on state workers. When a state chooses to reduce its budget spending by requiring state workers to contribute more to their benefits, without adjusting salaries, that functions as an effective income tax — a reduction of take home pay — for those specific workers. In essence, this is exactly the same as a state deciding that instead of increasing income taxes a little for everyone, it chooses to balance its budget by raising the personal income tax a lot only on specific types of workers, such as nurses, street cleaners, waitresses, Starbucks baristas, or shoe salesmen. Shouldn’t Gov. Christie, who claimed he opposes raising income taxes, be asked about this?
You can watch CBS’s nice Bob Schieffer politely interview NJ Governor Christie, or watch David Gregory continue to embarrass NBC with a panel with Governors Barbour and Haley, or watch the self-serving nonsense from Wisconsin Governor Walker. But on none of these shows will you find the host/moderator indicating he understands any of the points above nor challenge a governor or panelist with any of these essential facts and perspectives. That means the talk shows gave the Tea-GOP governors a free ride to spout absolute nonsense, even lie to viewers and smear state workers and unions with no push back from the hosts.
All the governors and their defenders are lying when they claim state workers avoid making contributions to their benefit plans. They contribute 100 percent.
All of them are ducking their Tea-GOP Party’s responsibility for the federal failure to address the national effects of the national recession.
All of them were given a free ride in not asking them why they supported Congress giving hundreds of billions in tax gifts to the rich or why, given their budget crisis, they all favored further tax cuts for those who don’t need them.
None of them was asked to explain why, given their adamant opposition to raising income taxes, they nevertheless are pursuing the equivalent of income tax increases for select workers who happen to be state employees.
But today’s cake goes to the nice Bob Schieffer, who had no response when Chris Christy declared that “the only purpose of teachers’ unions was to prevent incompetent teachers from being fired,” but nevertheless found time to ask these penetrating questions:
– What did he think of President Obama? (he likes O and Arne Duncan’s attacks on bad teachers)
– What did he think about criticisms of the First Lady Michelle Obama’s anti-obesity campaigns (he’s sympathetic)
– What did he think about other potential GOP Presidential candidates? (gosh he couldn’t say)
Nice work there, Bob. Shut it down.



29 Comments

The worthless Jake Tapper should have taken the opportunity to ask deer-in-headlights Jan Brewer where, exactly, those restored Border Patrol funds she is seeking are supposed to come from. Cut-Go, remember?
This is a solid piece of debunking scardycrow. I just wish you would advise people not to watch this shit. People who do should ask themselves why they settle down on Sunday morning to watch Fascist propaganda. Nobody is immune. Watching this drek will make you stupid. No really. It will fuck with your mind no matter how smart you think you are.
Yes, but they can’t hurt someone who doesn’t have a brain. Thanks for the concern, though.
Beautifully written post. Maybe that nice Mr. Schieffer or the NYT might care to respond? In the name of good journalism, they should.
I do have a question about pension benefits. Taxpayers do not fund this, rather 100% of the contributions come from workers? Is this like a cafeteria plan, where leftover benefit dollars can be allocated elsewhere such as a retirement plan? If so, then this would qualify as a defined contribution plan, with no employer match?
Sorry, I am slow on this one. But do state workers have a defined contribution plan (with benefit levels based on service, compensation, etc.), and would this be paid by taxpayers?
Last, does this apply to all states, or just Wisconsin? (I hear so much about state pension plan benefits my head spins.)
Oops. Paragragh 3 should be ‘defined beneit plan’ not ;defined contribution plan.’
And ‘beneit’ = ‘benefit’ and pls ignore spelling errors, etc. Eek, sorry for all my misteaks.
You’re right! These shows are a scandal in their highly non-critical approach to interviewing and critical evaluation of those who appear on them.
By definition, a state employee is paid by the state, and hence ultimately by the tax payers to provide public services. The same would be true for state contractors. That compensation can, through bargaining, be allocated to current wages or future benefits, take home pay versus contributions to health benefits, etc. David Cay Johnston is reacting against the framing that says their wages are theirs, but their benefits are considered gifts from tax payers, so why shouldn’t state workers pay for part of their benefits like everyone else? That’s false, he says. the full argument is here:
http://my.firedoglake.com/davidcayjohnston/2011/02/24/really-bad-reporting-on-wisconsin-protest-issues/
Johnston merely argues: they already do pay 100%, because they could always choose to take 100% of the total compensation in the form of take home wages/salaries, but instead they ask the state to take 5% or so out of what would otherwise have been a larger take home and apply that to benefits (and there are tax advantages).
There is part of a general economic argument that says that benefits effectively come out of a worker’s total compensation, so that if a firm stopped paying “benefits” or never offered them, then over time wages would be negotiated up to cover those costs under competitive labor conditions. Economists thus argue, IIRC, that benefits are not really paid by firms; they’re paid out of what employee wages would otherwise be.
All the propaganda is highly effective. My highly intelligent daughter is now convinced that all our problems stem from illegal aliens working under the table and sucking up all of our resources. She also believes that we would be fine if we stopped giving assistance to able bodied people without children. She has somehow been convinced that these people use their own money on drugs, and then beg for benefits provided by society, thus making it impossible for hardworking American citizens to get their fair share of the pie. Arguing with her has proved useless. I might point out that there are few if any illegal aliens in our area, however, she stated the effect spreads throughout our society. I really tried to educate my children, but the current climate makes it almost impossible. She is 39, has 2 teenage children, and a responsible job. Where did I go wrong?
“the Tea-GOPer led Congress have irresponsibly opposed all federal efforts at fixing the problem”
Given that the “problem” has been around for years and the “Tea-GOPer led Congress” has been around for months rather begs the question, what the hell did the Dem led Congress do, don’t you think?
“Through their employment agreements, workers receive total compensation via wages/salaries and benefits. Workers with collective bargaining agreements can negotiate to take varying proportions of their compensation as take-home wages or as retirement and/or health benefits.”
Very good, now take the next step. Restructuring the “proportions of their compensation” to put a percentage less into the check and more into the pension has zero impact on the bottom line. They still get everything they were promised.
Another fact that continually gets left out of the “conversation” is this: when everyone is flapping & twirling about the alleged “unfairness” of public sector pensions and how the pensions are allegedly in “bad health” and supposedly somehow ruining the economy or whatever… the Oligarchs encourage the Tea-GOPers to whine and point fingers of blame at the public servants. Yet no one ever discusses the typically *high fees* charged by Wall Streeters to “manage” the pension funds.
If some of those high fees were cut across the board, I firmly feel that a lot of the supposed “ill health” of these pension funds could be resolved within in a short period of time. I have no facts or figures to back up my hypothesis, but I do know that Wall St charges hefty ongoing fees to manage the pension fund investments.
I duly note that Wall Streeters just *awarded* themselves hefty bonuses totally in the high million$$. Yet I have yet to hear anyone, esp on the right, even comment on this, much less offer a solution of radically reducing these fees.
That’s another fact that should be discussed much more, but I sure won’t expect it on any of these idiotic fascist Sunday shows (which I haven’t watched since forever), nor in any of the usual corporate-owned rightwing media outlets.
Great post. I’ve often said watching the bloviating blowhard’s Sunday blabfest is enough to drive a sane(well informed) person crazy. I haven’t watched it for years, and very rarely ever watch the corporate subsidized government propoganda mills. Even MSNBC seems to be going with Democratic establishment types like LoDo now, who’s condescension about how he knows how DC works because he was an insider and everyone should automatically defer to his expertise and knowledge is beyond annoying. Like that is something I really want to subject myself to on a daily basis. Yeah, both LoDo and TweetyBird were once congressional staffers but what they have to offer in that regard can be obtained elsewhere without the annoyance of their style of delivery. Ms. Maddow is tolerable to some degree but even she seems to be moving (even more so) into the partisan/tribal fold of the democratic party establishment. But I guess she has to conform to the favorable-treatment-for-continued-access corporate media environment if she wants to keep her job. Even her style of delivery seems to be aimed at younger, (usually less informed) folks than myself, not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that. So my advise would be, when you feel like your head is about to explode, take a deep breath and step away from the boobtube. Your mental health may very well be at risk otherwise. PS don’t even get me started on Dick Cheney and his go to guy, the late, great media darling Tim Russert. Sorry about being long-winded but hey you started it. hehe.
Thanks for the kind words, but I am not an economist, just a journalist who writes about economics.
Here’s the critical piece of the puzzle: Although every penny is still being paid -whether in the form of current wages or deferred compensation – the deferred compensation/pension payments are going into WALL STREET. By being invested. And they are subject to the risk of loss of the type that happened in 2008. In other words –
“Instead of putting 5% of pay into Wall Street’s care, you MUST put 15% of your pay into Wall Street. So that they can leverage it into 200% more than it is worth, gamble with that phantom leveraged profit, and then lose all of it. But no worries. While you will have lost the 15% of your pay you put in, Wall Street will simply get a tax-payer funded bailout to reimburse them the 200% phantom profit they were making off your permanently gone 15%. But at least we got more of your current wages out of your hands and into Wall Street’s hands.”
THAT is why the Republican Governors are trying to force public sector employees to divert more of their pay package into DEFERRED COMP. So that Wall Street gets it.
Wall Street wanted to privatize Social Security for the rapine that would follow. As they have seen a strong political pushback from a broad coalition of seniors, progressives, and middle class Americans (the few left), they have switched gears to less “high profile” venues (or so they thought) – State Governments.
If they can force public employees to finance their gambling habits (aka “high finance”) with more of the deferred comp, then they don’t need to privatize Social Security just yet.
And by taking away public employee collective bargaining rights, they can then up that percentage of deferred comp as much as they want. Without any meaningful way for Employees to stop them. Its a hidden tax solely for the benefit of Financial Wizard Bastards…
Thanks David. I’ve revised to say journalist. Excellent article.
Can’t say where you went wrong. It sounds like she trusts “official” mouthpieces too much, like Meet the Press and/or Fox.
I could say the same thing, and have here in the past, about my parents. Is she condescending to you about that stuff? My stepfather does that to me. He says insane things like “Muslims don’t respect the flag enough” and that the solution to low wages and standard of living is to “work your way up” (completely ignoring the fact that it’s not possible for everyone to do that). Then he treats me like a naive kid.
Think about your daughter. Does she actually know what a word like “socialism” means? You’ll probably conclude she doesn’t. The divide is that fundamental, that they don’t even know what words mean.
This would be an awesome diary. Go write it. I will read it and rec it, as hard as I can…
which means that I’ll just click ‘recommend’ really aggressively, but hey, it’s effort :)
Thank you Scarecrow for your article!
When those who are doing the reporting socialize and schmooze with those they are supposed to be reporting on, not much real journalism is going to happen. Schieffer, and most of the other mainstream “journalists” seem far too interested in being seen with their subjects in social settings, than actually doing real investigative reporting.
Thanks Scarecrow.
Picture Bob Schieffer reading the obituary of Bob Schieffer live on air. That’s our media.
Agree with one_outer, this should be a diary.
Wall Street’s profits are predicated on a short-term growth model. It’s hard to grow in the current climate and with even modest regulatory reform their profits will stagnate.
What to do? Steal from the middle class. It’s been working like a charm for years…
Thanks Scarecrow for watching these dreadful shows so the rest of us can be spared the misery.
That said though, given the media blackout of the WI protests, it is clear that the media is squarely on the side of the corporate oligarchs. We will all be ice skating with Beelzebub before any of our politicians and their talking head consorts honestly discuss policies affecting the middle class.
We are on our own. Fortunately, we have cell phones and toobz (sigh, I would link, but I don’t know the command code, so here is what the future of journalism looks like: http://qik.com/brandzel/videos).
B I N G O !!!!
I am not a friend of bureaucrats or teachers. In the days before collective bargaining the deal was public employees got paid less than private employees but they got job security. Now there’s parity or something close to it. So what. Until we get a handle on military and intelligence expenditures we will be pounding sand. There is money for lots of things including public and private employees if we stop pissing it away on futile wars and if we tax the rich as they should be taxed. Our leaders cannot accept the demise of colonialism. We all pay the price.
Home schooled I take it?
one-outer
Didn’t want to click reply, as then you have to look through the whole thread again, don’t know if you’ll return to this thread anyway. Yes, my daughter is very condescending, as is the rest of my family. I guess they think at my advanced age (63) I’m getting soft in the head.
Latest exchange with her, I had stated that I don’t think it’s right to kill doctors who perform abortions. She replied: “An eye for an eye.” I replied: “Thou shalt not kill.” Conversation over.
It didn’t use to be this way, but increasingly this is the way it is. Mind you, she knows that I am not advocating abortion as a form of birth control, or to be undertaken lightly.
You must be a teacher
Well folks I am proud of the fact that I have given up watching the Sunday shows for over 2+ yrs.
Almost all the TV shows are doing what were designed by the Corporations to do….make Americans dumber.
I saw promos on some of the GE cable network,MSNBC for BClinton “President of the World”.
How many hundreds of billions did BClinton make for Welch,you know the GE Prez or whatever his title was…BClinton makes trade deals with India,GE outsourced Americans jobs to India,GE makes billions whilst destroying American families who are left jobless.GE’s television network does TV documentary proclaiming BClinton a wonderful American Prez as a matter of fact they called him the President of the world.
And there it is folks…And remember who helped to destroy independent radio & TV stations all done for Corporations…TELCO Act was signed by BClinton in 1996.
Nope, but you are the first person I have ever encountered who did not consider one a friend, or at least a positive role model or mentor.
I take it, you don’t value your ability to read and write much either.
Maybe Bob and Dancin’ Dave and Candy can understand this:
A public employee, a tea party activist, and a CEO are sitting at a table in front of a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the tea partier and says, ‘Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie.”
For CEO, feel free to substitute Republican Governor. Pass it on.